Welcome And Why Shift Work Matters

SPEAKER_04 0:00

3AW Knights, Carolie Katzen Barnes in the chair for the one and only Dennis Walter. 133693 is our number. 0477-693-693 is the text line. Now there's only one and only Roger Sutherland, very well known to the 3AW audiences, not just across Australia, but also around the world. Now, for those of you that may not know Roger, which would be very few of you, he's a certified nutritionist, a shift work educator, a night shift specialist, and he's had more than 40 years of frontline 24-7 experience with Victoria Police. But he is the founder of a Healthy Shift, creator of Shift Work Champions, and he's helping shift workers and organizations better understand the realities of working around the clock. So I want to welcome you, Roger, into studio. Thank you very much for giving up your Friday night to come in and help our audience.

SPEAKER_00 0:52

It's an absolute pleasure. And if you're coming in to see a Greek lady, what do you bring?

SPEAKER_04 0:56

A Greek salad, thank you very much.

SPEAKER_00 0:58

Did I bring a Greek salad?

unknown 1:00

You did indeed.

SPEAKER_04 1:00

Were you with your beautiful partner Melby who is here too, which is wonderful. Now, one thing that I said at the very start of the show after seven o'clock is you are an absolute champion when it comes to shift work. But I wanted to get a balance as well, because when people hear shift work, they think of people working six o'clock at night or six in the morning or midnight to eight a.m or something. They don't also think of them themselves as a shift worker, whether they're working eight o'clock in the morning until five or nine till five or whatever. We're all essentially shift workers with whatever role we do. And nutrition and lifestyle and balance is so important

What Counts As Shift Work

SPEAKER_04 1:40

for everyone.

SPEAKER_00 1:41

Well, the research actually defines a shift worker as someone who works hours outside of 8 a.m. to 5 p.m. And a night shift worker is someone who works more than two hours or two hours or more after midnight. So if you think about it, let's have a look think about all of the people uh journalists, all the people in the media, the radio stations are running 24-7, television stations are running 24-7. I think when we think of shift work, the our mind immediately goes to night shift. And then when it goes to night shift, we think police fire ambulance.

SPEAKER_04 2:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:18

That's it. We forget about nurses, we forget about the Amazon drivers, taxi drivers, Uber drivers, we forget about the pilots that are flying planes and the people that are serving drinks and you know the flight um or the cabin steward staff as they call them now. Um we forget about all those people. But let's see the mums as well. What about the mums?

SPEAKER_04 2:38

Yes, the mums. The mums.

SPEAKER_00 2:40

Th there'll be the I guarantee now there'll be a mum that has this on breastfeeding their baby before bed.

SPEAKER_04 2:46

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 2:47

Is that a shift worker?

SPEAKER_04 2:48

It is a shift worker. 100% damn good job as well. And so a stay-at-home dad. So um we don't need any political correctness, but everyone gets what we're trying to say. Absolutely. 133693 is our number. Roger is absolutely magnificent if you've got a question for him. Because we want you to call us with a role that perhaps we haven't thought of as a shift worker, or to ask a question around shift work, because one of the things that really drew me in, because I've known you for a couple of years, was I heard you on radio and you actually said that you'd been, you know, taught at the Academy through Victoria Police and you'd done all this, but no one had actually taught you about shift work. And there's a lot of things that people do, and you speak about this extensively, that often people are doing seven days and then they're swinging from night shift to morning shift or whatever it might be. But in order to proof their bodies with nutrition and health, because being tired on the couple of days off before the swing of the shift, it's no life balance at all.

SPEAKER_00 3:51

No, no, I think uh and and to just cash in on that point that you've just made, every single person that starts a job, even when you start your job here, they tell you all the policies and procedures, they tell you everything that you've got to do, how to push the button, how to talk, what you've got to say, who you've got to all the policies and procedures, where to go, where to park the car and everything else. And then they hand you a roster and who taught you how to work it, who taught you how to have balance between your um shift and at home? Because one of the biggest problems that I see in shift working community today, and this is worldwide, no one has been taught how to go

The Roster Problem Nobody Teaches

SPEAKER_00 4:30

about working the roster that they're actually handed by the organization. And then what happens then is they then go home and they are sabotaging their own lives, and it's not their fault, it's because they haven't been educated on how to go about it. Now I've coached, I don't know, probably thousands. Thousands of people, and I've got I've got quite a reach on social media as well. Where and people are putting strategies in place, and I get messages daily from people. I can't believe how the simple strategies have made such a difference in my life.

SPEAKER_04 5:02

Look, you're incredible, and I mean we're going to say a healthy shift. So give people the website, and you're also on Instagram as well. So give the handle.

SPEAKER_00 5:10

So it's um it's a healthyshift.com is my website. Um, and I'm also on Instagram at a underscore healthy underscore shift. Um, and I put a lot of content out there, just tips and hints for people to help them how to go about doing shift work. I've been in their shoes. I did 40 years of shift work on the front line with Victoria Police. I've been retired now for two, two and a half years, but I did the time and I know what it's like for them to actually walk in those shoes. So I'm in a position where I look at the research and then I because uh a lot of researchers will actually try and educate a shift worker, and the it goes over the top, Carol.

SPEAKER_04 5:53

It does. I mean, when I first met you a couple of years ago, I was doing a combination of overnights and then there, and look, I often have a swing shift on the weekend where I'm working five in the afternoon till one in the morning, but then I'm actually back here by 11.30 in the morning on the Sunday. But some of the tips that you've given me to do, I mean, I don't drink or smoke, so that's an advantage anyway. But the thing is the what you say about getting up in the morning and and the routine before bed, getting the light as well, the proper light as well, um, having a shower before bed, getting your body relaxed into it. I find that I do it very, very easily. Like I'm back here on day shift tomorrow. Yes.

Real-World Roles And Brutal Rosters

SPEAKER_04 6:30

I'll get out of here after midnight. Yep. But just those tips and the consistency is really, really important. Now, we've got Leanne who has rung through. Yep. Wonderful three six nine three. We're speaking with Roger Sutherland, a founder of a healthy shift, and also, of course, shift work creator of shift work champions, of which all our all our shift workers are. Leanne, welcome.

SPEAKER_01 6:53

Hi, Carolie, hi Roger, Miriam, and I'm not sure who else. Antonio, maybe Antonio. Yeah, he's good. Um uh you asked for other shift workers. How about RA RACV patrolmen?

SPEAKER_00 7:11

There you go. Yeah, there you go. See, now there's one that I never mentioned, but I will now. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 7:18

I've got three others.

SPEAKER_00 7:19

Yeah, fishermen. Fishermen.

SPEAKER_01 7:22

100% captains and train drivers.

SPEAKER_00 7:26

Oh, train drivers, I've coached a lot of train drivers. Can I just say, train drivers have it so difficult. Their roster is brutal. It is a horrendous roster. Um that those uh I I've coached train drivers from um from Victoria. And when you get into their roster and what they're working, my goodness me. Like, because you you know, we normally tell shift workers like drink plenty of water after midnight and things like that. But when you're driving a train, there's nowhere to stop and like go to the bar.

SPEAKER_04 7:55

Do a wee wee. That's right.

SPEAKER_00 7:56

No, that's right. Um, and where do you eat? When do you get the chance to eat and when do you get to do these things? And not only that, but a lot of train drivers are waking up at 2 a.m. to get up and start trains and go and get them ready and pull them out of the yards and start. It's horrendous. Flight attendants as well. Flight attendants are the same. Now, I've I've coached I I well I uh Melissa will tell you. I literally on the Emirates plane, flying back from Europe, collared one of the poor guy. I collared him, and we have been communicating ever since about their thing. And I did a podcast specifically for flight attendants. Fantastic and um for them, and he put it back into their group, and I picked up a lot of the flight attendants from uh flight, well, we call them flight attendants, they're they're cabin stewards, I think they call them now. Cabin managers, cabin crew. Yes, so let's be correct there. But wow, when you learn about that, like we get to an airport and get annoyed because the plane's delayed by half an hour, but we forget that they've been at the airport for hours before with a team meeting, um, getting on, it's incredible.

SPEAKER_04 8:59

Of course they have. What we'll do, we will go to, we'll have a chat to Arthur. Good evening, Arthur. You're speaking with Roger Sutherland.

SPEAKER_06 10:00

Good evening, Caroline. Nice to have you back. And good evening, 251 Roger Sutherland and uh and uh Miriam, of course. Thanks, I just yeah, I I thought that you would um I thought sorry, I wouldn't get used to the daylight savings, but it's uh increased my uh training endurance and I'm training much harder and kind of get used to it and a bit less sleep, but still I prefer the as you know I do the night shift, but um I'm getting used to it and it's I'm feeling much better.

SPEAKER_00 10:28

And what do you think Artie, what do you think you're doing that actually is helping? What what have you implemented? What's changed that's helped you to get feel better? Get to feel better.

SPEAKER_06 10:39

Look, I was all over the place sleeping at weird times like in the daylight. I get to sleep a bit earlier now. I wake up a bit earlier, and I'm enjoying the right daylight. I don't like it too hot, but I'm adjusting and I'm starting to like it, like getting more things done, whether it's mowing the lawn and going for a walk on the beach, as you know, and uh just feeling much better.

SPEAKER_00 11:01

Yeah, and I think the secret for you, Artie, is you're getting up, getting the daylight, and you're moving, and you're giving two main cues to your body that says it's wake time and to suppress that night, uh the night hormones. So by you doing that, you're giving your body really good signals, and that's why you feel better, and because you're feeling better, you're actually doing more. So you it's a it's a cycle that you have to break into, but once you do break into it, you then start to feel really good.

SPEAKER_06 11:32

Yeah, well, I've increased the weight workout and the martial arts, which obviously no.

SPEAKER_01 11:37

Yep.

SPEAKER_06 11:37

So because it's um warmer weather and you don't need to warm up as much. Of course, in the cold, you need to warm up longer, and I'm just feeling great. Like um, I can probably outtie a 17-year-old at the moment. That's brilliant.

SPEAKER_00 11:49

You and we both will both take them on. Yeah. I feel the same.

SPEAKER_04 11:53

That that is wonderful. And look, as I said, Roger, you have got so much experience, 40 years frontline, 24-7 with Victoria Police. You're a shift work educator, night shift specialist, certified nutritionist, and you founded a healthy shift and the creator of shift work champions because you saw a gap in the market for shift workers and organizations to better understand the realities of working around the clock because you can't have you can't have organizations. I mean, it could be mining in Western Australia or Quentin, FIFO people flying in, flying out.

SPEAKER_00 12:23

Brutal, yes.

SPEAKER_04 12:24

You get the job, but you've got to be able to proof yourself to do the job and organisations, how much productivity would they lose by not investing in doing one of your courses?

SPEAKER_00 12:35

My greatest frustration. My greatest frustration at the moment is I give them a figure, like they approach me for help, I give them a figure and they go, Oh no, we haven't got the budget for that. What they're missing is the bottom line. It's the impact over the.

SPEAKER_04 12:50

What about the sick leave that everyone will take? There you go.

SPEAKER_00 12:53

Unplanned leave, work cover, accidents, fatigue-related accidents, fatigue-related complaints, low morale, people leaving, having to replace staff and retrain staff. I actually met up with someone, I can just quickly tell you, um, we were away recently and I met up with a company that I'd actually had spoken to two years ago, and they said to me, Oh my god, Roger, they are still talking about you here. Your name is still on the list. And I said to them, Can I just ask you a question? I said, Your unplanned leave, how has your unplanned leave gone? It's reduced. And I said, And your staff turnover, what's your staff turnover like? And said, I can't tell you the last time we had to retrain something.

SPEAKER_04 13:32

There you go, investing.

SPEAKER_00 13:34

Now, they've invested, and when you look at the bottom line of what they would have had to invest, what they've done is they haven't spent a p a minor percent, but they've invested in their staff, and their staff are responding really, really well to it.

SPEAKER_04 13:50

All right, we've got to take a break. 133693 is the number. We're speaking with Roger Sutherland, founder of A Healthy Shift. The callers, um, Chris, Heidi, and Len, please stay on the line. We'll be back after this. I've got the one and only Roger Sutherland, a healthy shift. We're very lucky to have him. He's just brilliant. And um, you touched on something at the start of the segment, the shift work champions, mums. Yay. Yeah. Been there, done that, doing that?

SPEAKER_00 14:15

Yes, still doing that.

SPEAKER_04 14:17

Still doing that. Not the breastfeeding bit, but there we go. Um, Kylie is on the line. Kylie, good evening and welcome to the show.

SPEAKER_03 14:24

Carolyn,

Switch Off At Night With Breath

SPEAKER_03 14:25

thank you for taking my keys. Of course. Yay!

SPEAKER_04 14:30

Wonderful.

SPEAKER_03 14:31

Are you a mama? I am a mama. I am a mama. My daughter just turned 21 and my son's 13. I don't know how to switch off at night.

SPEAKER_00 14:44

Oh, Kylie, I love this. This is my jam. I love this thing.

SPEAKER_04 14:48

Well, I tell you what, my son finished VCE today. Yeah. He got a haircut, and I haven't been able to switch off for the last month either. So I'm gonna listen to this. No, but for the VCE, the stress. I'm I I uh Kylie, I am hearing you 100%.

SPEAKER_03 15:01

Oh, give me all the tips and tricks.

SPEAKER_00 15:04

Kylie, I'm gonna say this to you very quickly because obviously this is a long topic. But I'll get you to do this for me right now, alright? I want you to put one hand on your navel, one hand on your navel, and I want you to put one hand on your chest. Alright? Yep and then what I want you to do is I want you to take a deep breath through your nose, right, with your eyes closed, and I want you to breathe in through your nose for a count of four.

SPEAKER_01 15:28

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 15:29

And then I want you to purse your lips like you're blowing a kiss to someone, and I want you to breathe out for six. And I want you just to keep doing that, just do that for about five minutes. You will literally feel your body relax. And if you would just take the time to do that a couple of times a day, you'll find it will reset and rebalance and just calm your nervous system right down. And it's perfect for when you climb into bed at night and you want to go to sleep. There you go.

SPEAKER_03 16:00

Because I and and that's perfect. I I love it. And I I've been doing it too.

SPEAKER_00 16:07

Yep. Kylie, the best the best thing is it it it's the count of four in, it it comes down to what you're comfortable with as well. Okay, so breathe in for if it's only three, that's okay. All right, breathe in for three. But the breath out through the purse lips, make that longer out than you breath you breathed in. So if it's three in, four out or five out, all right? And I would love for you to do that for me a couple of times. Next time you hear me on the air, I want you to ring me back and tell me just how much of a difference that made to you. Can you do that?

SPEAKER_03 16:40

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 16:43

And you and you can even do that, don't close your eyes, but you can even do that while you're driving. Just check in with yourself and say, how am I breathing? Have I got my mouth closed and am I breathing?

SPEAKER_03 16:52

Roger, I I feel like you're watching me because I'm actually driving.

SPEAKER_00 16:58

Oh, Kylie.

SPEAKER_03 16:59

Sorry, I've been doing I've been doing it in the studio.

SPEAKER_00 17:01

Oh, yeah. Roger can take over from me.

SPEAKER_03 17:05

I was literally sitting at the traffic lights. Stopped at the traffic lights when you went, hand on your navel, hand on your chest, close your eyes. I was able to do that.

SPEAKER_00 17:16

Yes. Now, when you when you get into bed tonight, when you get when you finally get there and get home and get to bed, I want you to lie in bed on your back. I want one hand on the naval, one hand on the chest. Now we put a hand on the chest because we're breathing through and under that into our gut, into our gut. So we want to raise that hand that's holding our naval, and then we want to do the reverse breathing back out again through the lips, okay? And you watch the difference. Yeah, it's going under the under the top hand to the bottom hand, and then it's coming back out again. You I'll tell you how you'll notice this, you will feel your digestive tract relax. You'll feel it relaxing. You'll literally feel it relaxing, and you'll think, okay, I'm doing this right. Yeah, you are.

SPEAKER_04 18:02

Okay. All right.

SPEAKER_00 18:03

Welcome to the breath work sessions on 3RW.

SPEAKER_04 18:06

Yeah, and you know what they're so it's lovely, Kylie. Well done, well done, Mama, and well done, all the mums and dads out there as well, doing a great job. Every stage in life throws up its challenges. Doesn't it? It does, but that is really good. And also, I love the breath thing because not taking away from any one that teaches yoga or thing, but people don't have the time now to do a long breath thing. That is something very easy that people can do anytime, anywhere.

SPEAKER_00 18:33

People have when you say you've got to do breath work, just so you know too, I'm a certified breathwork facilitator, obviously. So what I've done is I am about to release a micro-dosing breathwork toolkit. So what will happen is if people keep an eye on my website, a healthyshift.com, I'm about to release what's called the two in three out, which is two minutes when you get to work and then three minutes when you finish work, to just rule a line between going in and rule a line between going out of work, right? Um and you can do it when you're home or you can do it when you land at work. People don't have half an hour to sit down and do a meditation or a breath work, but they do have two minutes.

SPEAKER_04 19:11

They do.

SPEAKER_00 19:12

And you can sit in the car, turn it off, and you can just do a very quick two-minute breath work, which I um it's in the booklet that I'm about to. It's free. It's going out in a free book. Um, and then when you finish work, sit in the car and you can just do a three-minute breath work to calm down and then leave, and then that will lead on to a paid toolkit which will have uh eight different breath works in it for people.

SPEAKER_04 19:34

Just before we go to a break, we'll fit in Carrie, who's got some sleep issues. Carrie, go right ahead.

Sleep Disruption Trauma And White Noise

SPEAKER_02 19:41

It's Carrie, but anyway, um thank you for listening. Um, look, I've had problems sleeping my whole life, and I've had taken sleep tablets, I've taken everything, and I just heard you on the radio, and I thought, I'll see what you can do. I lost I lost a son to suicide. Awful. And I'm so sorry. I can't sleep without noise. I need noise constantly, day and night.

SPEAKER_00 20:10

I need noise. I can understand that totally because I'm a PTSD sufferer too, Carrie. So um so white noise is what you need, and it's called white noise. Not not waterfalls and rivers and fires and things like that.

SPEAKER_02 20:24

No, I listen to m murder things, I listen to um you know.

SPEAKER_00 20:30

But the problem that you've got there is you're more stimulating your central nervous system. Oh, I go to sleep. Yeah, but what we need is to calm it to help you, is that white noise, because your brain it's scientifically shown that it your brain actually focuses on that and what it does is it shuts everything else out. Right. Now I understand you listen to the murders and that, but if you think about it, think about it and say it out loud, you're listening to murders and things that are stimulating your mind.

unknown 21:00

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 21:01

No, yeah, yeah, I know. But I used to before my son died, yes. I would listen to the rain on a tent, I'd listen to oceans. Yes, nothing happened. I had a bit of trauma in my early life too.

SPEAKER_00 21:13

So I'm very sorry, Bad. And that is the stress that's causing the sleep issues internally.

SPEAKER_04 21:20

It is. Carrie, thank you very much for ringing. We wish you all the best and keep an eye on Roger's website as well, a healthy shift. You'll get some wonderful tips from there. Now I know that Jim and Len and some others are waiting to speak to you. We've got declar a commitment, but 133693 is the number, 0477-693693. We've got the wonderful Roger Sutherland, founder of a healthy shift, here to help everybody, and we'll be back after this. 3AW Nights, Carolikats and Varnus Info, Dennis Walter, 1933 693 is our number. Lots of calls for Roger Sutherland,

Why You Wake At 2am

SPEAKER_04 21:51

founder of a healthy shift, and also creator of Shift Work Champions as well. We all like to think that we're one of those because we listen to you and we do what you say. Let us talk to Eros. Eros, good evening. Welcome to the show.

SPEAKER_05 22:05

Good evening. Thank you. I was uh just giving you a call. I uh look, I work in real estate, I get home, I'm tired when I get home. But then I lay down in bed and I'm just awake and then and I anyway, I I end up falling asleep. But then I end up waking up, it's the same time every morning. It's between 2 and 3 a.m. I'm in bed by say 10.30 latest and then uh awake at 2.30, and then it's I'm awake for about half an hour 45 minutes, and then I end up falling back asleep.

SPEAKER_00 22:35

What if I told you everybody wakes up between 2 and 3 a.m.? Would you believe that? Now everyone's everyone that's listening now is going, no, no, I don't wake up at that time, but I can tell you now, every single human being wakes up at some stage probably. Between 2 and 3 a.m. And there's a reason why it actually happens. A lot of us don't remember it because we're going between sleep cycles. We're going from one sleep cycle into a next and we don't remember it. But all of us wake up around that time. And the reason why we do is because when we go to sleep, our body temperature starts dropping and it continually drops and it continually drops. And then it gets to around about 2 to 3 a.m. And if it continued to drop, we'd actually stop because we'd get too cold, right? So what happens is we wake. Now, Eros, in your situation, you're in real estate. It's a stressful time at the moment, very stressful. And I would suggest that there's a lot going on through your mind. So when you do wake between those two wake cycles, what actually happens is the stress kicks in because you're that's when you're going to have the committee meeting in your head, and the committee meeting starts, and then you can't go back to sleep. Am I right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 23:47

Yeah, no, I agree, I agree, I understand.

SPEAKER_00 23:49

Yeah, so can I just again, exactly as I said to the last caller, if you were listening, I want you to lie there, put one hand on your navel, one hand on your chest, I want you to breathe in for four and out for six. Focus on the counting, on the numbers, all right? While you're doing that, focus on the numbers because what will happen is your mind will wander. But when your mind wanders, I don't want you to be critical of it. I want you just to come back to the counting, going, oh, that's interesting. But I've got to count four, three, two, one, and then breathe out, and then two, three, four, and keep going doing that. And then what will happen is because you're focusing on that, you'll find that you'll wake up in the morning, you'll think, what happened? I fell asleep. And that's the key.

SPEAKER_04 24:32

There you go.

SPEAKER_00 24:33

It's a stress relief, it's stress that's keeping you awake. It's a stress that's waking. You're naturally waking, as every human does, but it's the stress that's kicking in because your your autonomous nervous system is in a sympathetic state and it's actually kicking in. But you your breathing will relax that. Trust me, try it. Okay. And let me know.

SPEAKER_04 24:52

Oh, that will do. Yeah, I can contact you on Instagram or your website. Through the website, email. Through the website, easy. Um, one thing I was going to ask you, talking about long stretches, now you know you've worn many different hats with Victoria Police 40 years, 24-7 frontline policing, but you were a former police dog handler.

SPEAKER_00 25:12

I was, indeed.

SPEAKER_04 25:13

Gorgeous, and you've had some beautiful, beautiful um canines in in your possession. I wanted to ask you the recent wonderful

Police Dog Search And Autistic Resilience

SPEAKER_04 25:20

news story. It you know, it's it's gone around the world, you know, the William William Tyrrell um located it after six days.

SPEAKER_00 25:27

Yeah, now can we just talk about that? Yes, I want to talk about it because And now I've got a witness right here in the studio with us, Caroline. He has I said to Melissa after this young fellow was missing for about four days, they will find him alive. And she said, no, they won't. I said, yep, they will. He's autistic or he's he's challenged, they will find him alive. The resilience in these autistic kids is unbelievable. Now, why did I say that? Because I'd been involved in a search. Um, I now I can't remember what year it was, but I was involved in a search where we'd been searching for days. Now the search and rescue squad for the police organise and coordinate the whole search. They send the air wing over here, the dog squad over here, the SES here, and they coordinate the whole thing. And I was at the dog squad and I was sent over to this one area. I'm convinced that we were just sent to you know, tick the box, we'll just put you over there. But while I was out searching, I actually found this kid's um hoodie. It was wet, it was ringing wet, and it was the dog indicated. We were walking down the track thinking, what a waste of time, what a waste of time. But you know, you're still going and the dog's still you think it's just wandering along. All of a sudden it indicated this hoodie off the off the track. Went down, picked up this hoodie, and we went, Oh my god, we found this kid's hoodie, I couldn't believe it. The whole search moved into that area. Of course it is. The whole search. And the following day, the following day, um, I wasn't using my dog, but I was walking with my um uh colleague who was using his dog, and we all of a sudden the dog indicated, which means the dog threw its nose up and it could smell, and it ran down this valley, and we were running through the bush, running through the bush down there, and then it was almost like the world opened, like the heavens opened, and here was this child, 13 years old, autistic, butt naked, standing with one foot straddling either side of the creek, staring into the waterfall. And I can remember having kids, you know, like it was um people that had kids were in a position where it was really raw for them, and to find this child, and we couldn't get out on the radio because of where we were, we were down in the middle of nowhere, we just chased the dog down. Um, and to find this kid, and he was autistic and he'd been missing for five days as well. These kids are incredibly um, incredibly resilient. Um but if you Google autistic missing children, you will see Google has hundreds of them that come up and they keep finding them. Um, because these kids are incredibly. The vision from the poly air was just absolutely incredible. Of course it was. I've been there for that, and I know how euphoric that is. And you're trying to be cool, like because you're a dog handler and you're there and you're trying to be really cool with what you're doing, but I can tell you when you're out of sight, you just break down. It's just huge, it's a big emotional release. And all the police that were involved in that, and search and rescue, and every single person that was involved in that search, all would have been internally euphoric about that. Well, and that's what keeps you going.

SPEAKER_04 28:42

It sure does. Now, what also will keep you going, I would love to know, because 40 years, as I said, frontline policing with Victoria Police. Have you approached Victoria Police about perhaps strategies and what they've got in place to teach the next generation of police officers coming through?

SPEAKER_00 29:01

Well, I've coached a number of Victoria Police personnel. A number of Victoria Police personnel and got them back. I was the last resort. They were going to walk away from the job and I've got them back. I actually wrote to Mike Bush um about six weeks ago. Did you? Yeah, I wrote to Mike Bush and I told him who I was. I'd spoken to him at a retirement function and he said we need to talk later. I spoke to I sent him the email following up with the conversation and he thanked me for my service and said I forwarded it on to the relevant department. This week, just gone. They said thank you, but no thanks. We've got everything we need in place.

SPEAKER_04 29:36

No, no, no, no, no. Okay, well, I'm going to be naughty here before we go for a break. Here we go. Victoria Police, Victoria Police, Victoria Police, Mike Bush, Mike Bush, Mike Bush. That'll be picked up on there. They asked me though This is that this is so important. It is incredibly important. We're trying to attract another thing. And of course, you've got a a lot of young people now where even in media they don't want to work, shift work. They haven't been brought up with that as well.

SPEAKER_00 30:02

Why don't they?

SPEAKER_04 30:03

Well, we'll have to find out.

SPEAKER_00 30:04

Because they haven't been taught about it.

SPEAKER_04 30:06

They haven't no, they haven't been taught. We'll we'll take this up after the break. 103 693. You're on Knights on 30W. And I'm delighted to be here this evening for the one and only Dennis

Organisations Pay For Fatigue Either Way

SPEAKER_04 30:15

Walter. And we're with the one and only Roger Sutherland, founder of a healthy shift. He's here in studio 133693 is our number 0477 693 693 is our text line. We're talking about a lot of things to do with shift work. You've given some wonderful, wonderful advice to people, breath work, tips that one can do. But you also, as I said, I wanted to touch you, you know, you've created the shift work champions because you're incredibly passionate about this. And one of the things that comes through, and we get a lot of people listening to this, people on shift, but people with organizations, that whole thing when people say, We can't afford to invest in training, why would you not want to invest in training for a future workforce if you're a mining company or whatever it might be? Because as you say, the amount of sick leave and downtime that people are doing, and as you said, 40 years with Victoria Police, you've got all the all the the tricks and the tips and and all the all the training with firearms and all that stuff. But to be able to do a shift and then have time away so that you're not rolling through and being tired and stuff, people have got to teach the next generation.

SPEAKER_00 31:27

Yeah, they do. And and and I don't I can't, for the life of me, understand. Having come through 40 years of shift work with Vic Paul, I was never once at any stage educated on how to go about shift work. And that's the reason why I'm doing what I'm doing today, because I was never taught, and I was just watching my colleagues just getting more tired, more fatigued.

SPEAKER_04 31:47

They're thinking that that's normal. They would be thinking it was normal.

SPEAKER_00 31:50

Well, this is the point that I want to make. They're starting to think that that is normal. They think that this is just shift work and they can't leave the job. Although in the past, people would say, I can't leave because I've got a mortgage, I've got bills to pay, I've got this, I need the money. But the problem is, um, people are now actually leaving, but then they've got to be replaced, which means recruiting, you've got to find people, and then they've got to bring them in. And the the life expectancy in the police department, when I say life expectancy, the duration of police. Duration of the thing, yes. Is not long now. Now, when I joined, I was a career policeman. I I thought if I got 25 years, it'd be amazing. I did 40. And I've still got squad mates that are still in the job now, still working, right, still doing the job, but there's only two others, uh, one other now. But the thing is, we're in a position where we are not correlating what the education costs with what the bottom line is. That's the problem. The cost of unplanned leave, the cost of um fatigue-related accidents on work cover.

SPEAKER_04 32:51

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 32:52

We don't understand that work cover, people that are off with mental health issues, a lot of mental health issues, circadian misalignment. How about we fix their light diet? Get their light diet right to start off with, and then we're in a position where we start to fix. You know, the more tired you get, the more shifts that you're rotated through, the more your mental health suffers as well. You know that when you're well rested, your mental health is strong.

SPEAKER_04 33:15

Yes, definitely.

SPEAKER_00 33:16

And this is the thing. Um, and so people are not actually correlating it. So, what my program does is it builds internal shift work capability. We put champions in the workplace, educating people who are on shift in real time from the organization that knows the organization, knows the people, knows the the role, and then the all they do is they just become like a champion. We champion everyone for everything else.

SPEAKER_04 33:43

We sure do. We've got a clear commitment. But if you're listening to this in the car or at work or whatever, if you're on shift, if you own a company and this has sparked your interest, reach out. 133693. Let's talk with Roger Sutherland again after this. Well, Roger Sutherland, we've only got a couple of minutes left. It's been so lovely you coming in for

Where To Find Roger And Next Steps

SPEAKER_04 34:00

the 30W Knights family. And as I said, lots of people can find out. So we're going to give you another plug. So you've got your website, a healthyshift.com.

SPEAKER_00 34:09

Yep, healthyshift.com.

SPEAKER_04 34:10

And for those people on Instagram, a underscore healthy underscore shift, great advice, great tips, great tricks. And what about the podcast? And the podcast.

SPEAKER_00 34:21

A healthy shift. The podcast is called A Healthy Shift, and it's the Shift Workers Podcast. I've got four hundred and thirty-eight episodes now.

SPEAKER_04 34:29

Brilliant. And there's and you know, and you're a certified nutritionist as well, of course.

SPEAKER_00 34:33

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 34:34

Educator. Thank you for having me so much. Well, thank you for being so generous with your time. It's been lovely to meet your beautiful partner as well, Melby. Welcome to the studio. And um lots of good advice for people. And as you say, lots of people have said, I mean, there are some more miners, concierges, triple zero operators, lifeline, nurses on call.

SPEAKER_00 34:52

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 34:53

Amazing things.

SPEAKER_00 34:54

Fantastic nurses. Newsers coming up next. God love them.

SPEAKER_04 34:58

God love 'em. And um, you're here to help, and thank you for your time. We'll see you next time. News is next. It's 10 o'clock.