Welcome to A Healthy Shift | The Shift Work Podcast, the podcast helping shift workers thrive while changing how organisations think about people working in 24/7 environments.
Hosted by Roger Sutherland, Australia's Night Shift & Sleep Specialist, this is where evidence meets lived experience.
After more than 40 years of working rotating shifts with Victoria Police, followed by years studying nutrition, circadian biology, chrononutrition, sleep, human performance and women's health, Roger is on a mission to challenge the belief that fatigue, poor sleep, burnout and declining health are simply part of working shifts.
Because they don't have to be.
Whether you're a nurse, paramedic, police officer, firefighter, doctor, aged care worker, manufacturing employee, FIFO worker, miner, pilot, flight attendant, truck driver, dispatcher, or anyone working outside the traditional 9-to-5, this podcast will give you practical, evidence-based strategies to help you sleep better, improve your energy, optimise your health and perform at your best.
If you're a leader, manager, People & Culture professional, WHS specialist, or responsible for leading a 24/7 workforce, you'll discover a different way of thinking about shift work—one that focuses on building shift work capability from within through education, leadership and practical systems that create healthier people, stronger teams and higher-performing organisations.
Each episode explores topics including:
• Shift work • Night shift • Sleep after night shift • Circadian rhythm • Fatigue management • Shift worker health • Nutrition for shift workers • Chrononutrition • Recovery and resilience • Women's health and shift work • Leadership in 24/7 organisations • Human performance • Workplace wellbeing • Fatigue risk management • Building healthier, safer and higher-performing workplaces
This isn't another podcast offering generic health tips.
It's a podcast about changing the future of shift work.
Because healthier people create stronger teams.
Stronger teams build better organisations.
And it all starts by understanding how to work with biology, not against it.
Who decided that Saturday and Sunday had to be the best days of the week?
After more than 40 years of shift work, one of the things I genuinely loved was the freedom of having time off when everyone else was working.
In this episode of A Healthy Shift, I'm continuing our positive shift work series by exploring the benefits of weekday time off, quieter gyms, uncrowded shops, family opportunities and having time for yourself before heading to work.
Of course, shift work comes with challenges and sacrifices, but there are also some wonderful lifestyle advantages that rarely get talked about.
Roger Sutherland is Australia's Night Shift & Sleep Specialist and the founder of A Healthy Shift.
After more than 40 years working rotating shifts with Victoria Police, Roger now helps organisations reduce fatigue risk, improve staff wellbeing and build healthier, safer and higher-performing 24/7 workplaces through evidence-based education, circadian biology and the Shift Work Champions™ Framework.
Disclaimer: Roger Sutherland is not a doctor or a medical professional. Always consult a physician before implementing any strategies mentioned in this podcast. Use of this information is strictly at your own risk. Roger Sutherland will not assume any liability for direct or indirect losses or damages that may result from the use of the information contained in this podcast, including but not limited to economic loss, injury, illness, or death.
You know, one of the things that used to make me laugh when I was working shifts was listening to people talk about, oh, I cannot wait for Friday. By Wednesday, they're canning down. Thursday's almost there. And by Friday afternoon, they couldn't wait to get out of the door because they finally had two days to themselves. Meanwhile, I might have been enjoying a beautiful Tuesday morning at the gym, having a swim, wandering around the shops without the crowds, or sitting somewhere having a coffee while everyone else was at work. And I used to think, you know what? This shift work arrangement isn't all that bad. Now don't get me wrong, I've worked more than my fair share of weekends, public holidays, Christmas mornings, and night shifts over the years. And there were certainly times when I'd have loved a conventional working week. Actually, would I? Maybe. Anyway, I digress. But after more than 40 years of working shifts, I reckon there are some genuine advantages to having a roster that doesn't revolve around Monday to goddamn Friday. And today I want to talk about some of those freedoms because I think we spend so much time talking about what shift work takes away from us. While we're on a roll here with our good vibe podcast, let's talk about what we sometimes forget that shift work can give us because it doesn't have to be this way. For far too long, we've accepted fatigue, poor sleep, burnout, and declining health as simply part of working in a 24-7 environment. I don't believe they are. Whether you're a shift worker, trying to feel better, or a leader responsible for the people who keep your organisation running around the clock, you're in the right place. Welcome to a healthy shift. I'm Roger Sutherland, and after more than four decades of working 24-7 shifts with Victoria Please, followed by years of studying nutrition, circadian biology, human performance, and working with literally thousands of shift workers, I've made it my mission to change the conversation around shift work. Because healthier people create stronger teams, and stronger teams build better organizations. And it all starts by understanding how to work with your biology and not against it. Let's get into today's episode.
And welcome back to another episode of A Healthy Shift, the Shift Workers Podcast. We're on a roll here, we're talking positivity. And I'm going to continue our little run of positive episodes about Shift Work because I have to say I have really enjoyed recording these. They've brought back a lot of memories for me. And I know, and I accept the fact that I've talked about a lot of the detrimental effects of shift work and strategies around that, which is a positive in a way because it's helping you long term. And I've reached like over a quarter of a million people with this podcast, with the episode so far, which is great. And I'm eternally grateful that you're back and you're listening to this one. If you've listened to the previous episodes, you'll know that I've been reflecting on some of the things that I genuinely enjoyed about working shifts for more than 40 years. We've talked about why I love shift work, the funny situations that only shift workers understand. And more recently, the last episode, the people who made those years memorable, and you all know who they are. Today, a little different. I just want to talk about another part of shift work that I think deserves a little bit more appreciation. And that's the freedom and flexibility that can come with working outside of that goddamn conventional Monday to Friday, 9 to 5, which we all know is not 9 to 5 anyway. Now, I realize the word freedom might sound a little strange to somebody who's just finished their fourth consecutive night shift or is staring down the barrel of another long working weekend. I'm certainly not suggesting that every roster provides wonderful flexibility. Some rosters are absolutely goddamn terrible. In fact, they're atrocious and they're brutal. And some people have very little control over their working hours. But if we're going to have an honest conversation about shift work, let's acknowledge the advantages as well as the challenges as well. Because there are things that shift workers can do with their time that people working conventional business hours often struggle to manage.
And when you learn to recognize and make use of those opportunities, shift work can actually offer a pretty enjoyable way of life. Now, your weekend doesn't have to be Saturday and Sunday. That's one of the things I loved about shift work. Pretty simple. It was that I never, ever needed to wait for the weekend to do something I enjoyed. Ever. For most people working Monday to Friday, Saturday and Sunday are their opportunity to catch up on everything and everyone and do everything that they couldn't do during the working week. They've got shopping to do, jobs around the house, children's activities, family commitments, got to go and play golf, got to go to the gym on the weekend, got to do everything. And then maybe they might have had a little bit of time left over for themselves, but rarely. And because everybody else is trying to do exactly the same thing, yep, the roads are busy, the shops, shopping centers are packed, the cafes are busy, and just about every place that you might want to visit has half the population there with you. Or it might feel that way. But when you're a shift worker, your days off can fall anywhere. Tuesday might be your Saturday, and then Thursday might be your Sunday. It can be that simple. And there is something quite enjoyable about being able to go out and do things while the rest of the world is at work. Now, I used to love being able to get to the gym or go for a swim during the day when it was relatively quiet. I could get things done without spending half the day fighting traffic or standing in queues. Even something as simple as catching up with someone for a breakfast date or sitting down with a coffee could feel completely different when you weren't competing with the weekend crowds. Of course, the trade-off is that you might be working when everyone else is enjoying their Saturday afternoon. But what's a Saturday afternoon? I don't know. But I never automatically saw this as a disadvantage. I never did. I didn't care. I got to the stage in my career where one day just merged into the next. And if someone said to me, You're working a Saturday night, I went, Oh yeah, so am I. I didn't realize. Sometimes having a Tuesday off was much more appealing than having a Saturday off. And I think that's something that people who've never worked shifts don't always appreciate.
Now, this is probably one of my favorite aspects of working afternoon shifts, and it's something that I touched on in an earlier episode. And that's getting your time before work gets their time. When you work your conventional nine to five day, particularly if you've got a reasonable commute, your working day can take up most of your available daylight hours. You get up, you've got to get yourself organized, you've got to travel to work, spend the day there, then you've got to eventually drive home, come home. And depending on the day you've had, sometimes there's not a great deal left for the things that you actually want to do. But when I was working in afternoon shift, I'd jump out of bed in the morning. I'd go, it was a significant part of my day to myself before I even had to think about going to work. Train, swim, go for a walk, get things done around the house, enjoy a decent breakfast, cruise into the day, spend time outside, and generally do the things that matter to me. And then I would go to work. And I really, really like that arrangement. Instead of giving work, giving it to work first, and often the best part of my day, I actually had the opportunity to look after myself before I had to give myself to work. That way they got the scraps, not me getting the scraps of what was left. Now that doesn't mean afternoon shift is perfect because you're missing evenings at home with you know family dinners and social occasions, and depending on your circumstances, those things can be quite significant if you've got young children as well. But for somebody who enjoys having their mornings available, afternoon shift can be a terrific arrangement. Can also be a damn fine excuse to get out of doing something as well. Just saying.
I also think there's an important point here about personal preference. Some people absolutely love early shifts because they enjoy finishing work in the early afternoon, especially in the summer with daylight saving. Others prefer afternoons because they want their mornings free. And there are people who genuinely prefer working night shift. And we are all different. And that's the beauty of it. Those that want to work days, work days. Those that want to work afternoons, work afternoons. Those that want to work nights, knock yourselves out. We were all different. Our family circumstances are different, our interests are different, and our preferences can change through our working lives. I don't think we should automatically assume that everyone wants to work Monday to Friday, nine to five, because plenty of people don't. And if you're a shift worker, and I know from working shifts myself and then going into the CIU, and the thought, the very thought of being bound to an eight to four Monday to Friday nearly killed me. It doesn't always suit everybody, right? It didn't suit
me at all. Being available when it matters, this is the other advantage of shift work, depending on your roster, is the opportunity to be available things that can be difficult to manage when you're working those conventional nine to fives. And for parents, this can be particularly valuable. Think about those school activities, sporting events, appointments, or simply being able to spend some time with your kids during the day. Now I'm not suggesting shift work makes family life easy. Far from it. There are plenty of challenges associated with working when the rest of the family is at home or sleeping when everyone else is awake. But the there can be also some really quality opportunities. You might be able to attend a school event on a Tuesday morning without needing to take annual leave. You might have an afternoon available to pick the kids up from school. Or you might be home during the week when a partner or a family member needs some support. And sometimes those opportunities become some of the things that you remember most. Excuse me. When you've got children, you don't always get another chance to attend a particular event or be present for a particular moment. Of course, shift work can also mean that you miss a birthday, a Christmas celebration, weekends away, and all sorts of other family occasions. I've certainly experienced that side of it. But I also think it's worth recognizing the moments that shift work allowed us to be present for, rather than only remembering the ones that we missed. I know that I was able to get up and I was able to take my children to school. It gave me such a pleasure to be able to get up, get them organized, put them in the car, and as a dad, drive them to school and drop them off. I was also able to take part in activities at the school in the morning. And it was really good. Or on an afternoon, or pick the kids up from school and be there as the dad, standing around waiting for the kids to come out of school. It was always fantastic. And it allowed me to do that. Midweek events, I was able to take the kids to training, to dance training or football training or whatever it was during the week. I was able to do that, and it was fantastic. These are the things that we take for granted, but they shift work gives us this opportunity to do this that we don't normally get the chance to do. Or we're doing absolutely exhausted because there's nothing left of us. So the beauty of getting these things done while everybody else is working, and this is another one that I reckon most shift
workers will appreciate. Have you ever tried getting a trade to your house? You work Monday to Friday? Like you can only get them after hours or Saturday or Sunday. Or what about booking a medical appointment, getting the car service, dealing with the government department, or doing any of the hundred little jobs that seem to require you to be available during normal business hours? Now, for someone working nine to five, this can be a logistical nightmare. They might need to take time off work, rearrange meetings, or try to squeeze everything into a lunch break. But when you've got a weekday off, yep, no worries, mate, you can come around and do it that day. Oh, Tuesday's okay. Yep. You can often get those things done without having to reorganize your entire working life. I always found that incredibly convenient. You could book an appointment, you could go and get the shopping done in and out, no problems at all, very quickly. Have the car service and still have time left in the day to do something you enjoyed. And because you're doing those things outside of the busiest time, they can seem a lot more efficient and less stressful. Now I know this probably doesn't sound particularly exciting because you know this, don't you? But do you are you actually acknowledging it? Nobody's going to put getting the car serviced on a Wednesday at the top of their list of life's greatest experiences. But it's those everyday conveniences that can make such a big difference to us. Sometimes the advantages of shift work aren't particularly glamorous, but they are very, very practical. And I reckon there's a lot to be said for that. You don't have to live for Friday. And this is something that I always found interesting over the years was how differently shift workers can
think about the working week. Now, when you're working your conventional Monday to Friday schedule, there's often a pretty predictable rhythm. Monday. Monday itis. Everyone complains about it. Wednesday, hump day, we're halfway there. Thursday means the weekend's approaching. Let's start winding down. Friday, pants off Friday. Yay. Sorry, I mean casual Friday. Something to celebrate. Then Sunday afternoon arrives and people start thinking about going back to work. But when your work shifts, that whole arrangement changes. You might finish your working week on a Monday morning. You then start your roster on a Saturday night. Your days off might begin on a Thursday afternoon. But after a while, the traditional working week can become fairly irrelevant. I loved that. There was something quite liberating about not needing Friday afternoon to arrive before I could enjoy some time to myself. My days off were my days, regardless of what the calendar said. And sometimes having time away from work while everyone else was busy made those days even more enjoyable. Particularly if you've got a partner that works days. How nice is it just to have the quiet house home to yourself during the day? Think about that. Now there's a downside to this as well. The rest of society still largely operates around a traditional working work. So social events, family gatherings, and children's activities often don't happen when shift workers are rostered on. And that can be frustrating. No one has a 21st birthday at lunchtime on a Wednesday. But I think the ability to enjoy time away from work without being tied to the traditional weekend is one of the most underrated advantages of shift work. Finding a roster that works for you. And one thing that I've learned after more than four decades of shift work is that people can have
very different preferences when it comes to their working hours. And I touched on this earlier. I've worked with people who absolutely love nights. I put my hand up. I'm one of them. They enjoyed the quieter environment, the different pace of work, and the way their roster fitted around their personal lives. It was more routine. I've also worked with people who couldn't stand nights and would happily start work at five in the morning if it meant being home in the afternoon. You can put your hand up if that's you. And then there's those who genuinely loved afternoons, couldn't get going in the morning, and we were forcing them to. And others who preferred a rotating roster because they enjoyed all that variety. And none of those preferences are wrong. None. What suits somebody at 25 may not suit them at 45. Having young children, caring responsibilities, sporting commitments, or even a change in your health can all influence how someone feels about their roster. There's also differences between preferring a particular shift and that shift being biologically ideal for you. Someone may genuinely enjoy working nights because it suits their lifestyle, but that doesn't remove the biological challenges associated with being awake and active during the night. And I think we need to be able to hold both of those ideas at the same time. We can acknowledge that night work represents health and sleep challenges, while also recognizing that, well, some people just enjoy the lifestyle that it provides. And it's pretty simple, really. And rather than telling everybody which shift they should prefer, I think we should actually be working with people and helping people to understand how to work their particular roster as well as possible. And that is a much more useful conversation. Me personally, I loved to work afternoons and nights. And I had myself and my best mate, and we would go in and we would do the afternoons. I've spoken about this before. It gave me the opportunity to do what I needed to do. But I would go in and meet him at work, and we would take it in turns and we would work together and we worked very well together. We had the confidence in each other while we were working, we could just do that, and that eight hours just flew by. We knew when to go and do what we had to go and do, when we'd do it, and everything was fine. Nothing was an issue ever. It was always so simple. And that was because we did this rostered shift pattern that we did until things changed. And new people came on, and they all wanted this and they wanted that, and they wanted this, and they wanted to write up unless it was the weekend or unless it was school holidays, or unless it was the weekend. Couldn't do it then. And what it did was it destroyed a really good working relationship. When we have really good teams that are working like day shifts or afternoon shifts, and people are working the shifts that they prefer and not forcing them to work against, things work really, really well. So let's make the most of the opportunities. Something that I would definitely encourage shift workers to think about is how they use their opportunities that their
roster actually gives them. And I don't mean trying to fill every available hour with activities or feeling guilty if you spend a day off doing very little. Recovery is incredibly important as a shift worker, and particularly after you've worked night shifts. Circadian disruption is brutal, and sometimes the best use of your time is simply getting some sleep and allowing yourself time to recover. But when you do have the energy and opportunity, there can be real value in planning something you enjoy around your roster. Maybe it's getting outside for a walk on a quiet weekday morning. Maybe it's a swim, game of golf, catching up with a friend, going out for breakfast or spending some uninterrupted time on a hobby. Perhaps it's taking advantage of having a weekday off to do something with your children or grandchildren. It doesn't have to be complicated or even expensive. And it certainly doesn't need to be productive. Sometimes just having the opportunity to enjoy your time without rushing from one obligation to the next, it can be enough. And I think that was one of the things that I appreciated personally most about shift work. There were periods when my roster gave me the opportunities to do things that I simply wouldn't have had had I been working conventional business hours. And I made the most of those opportunities whenever I could. So if I look back after 40 years, over my working life, I don't think I would have wanted to have spent 40 years working Monday to Friday. In fact, I can assure you I wouldn't. Now that might sound strange coming from somebody who spent so much time educating people about the health challenges associated with shift work, but I don't see all of those things as contradictory. I genuinely enjoyed many aspects of working shifts. And I honestly believe that my health is the way it is now because I enjoyed those particular aspects. And I also understand the biological consequences of working against our natural circadian rhythm. And both of those things can be true. I enjoyed having the weekends off. I enjoyed being able to train and swim before work. I enjoyed the flexibility that certain rosters gave me, and I enjoyed not having my entire life organized around a traditional working week. And there were sacrifices, of course. There were family occasions I missed, nights when I'd rather have been home and periods when the roster was extremely difficult. But I don't think we do shift workers any favours by pretending that there are no positives. And that's what I really want this series of episodes to have been about. And I hope you got something out of them. We've been, we've sorry, we've spent plenty of time talking about what makes shift work challenging. I've done 419 episodes on it. Those conversations are important and they're not going away. But I also want people to recognize and start looking through a lens that there can be a lot more to enjoy about this way of life that we live as a shift worker. Because sometimes it's the people you work with, sometimes it's the experiences that you've had, and sometimes it's the laughter and the friendships that you will never ever forget. And sometimes it's simply being able to sit outside on a beautiful Thursday morning with a coffee, knowing that you don't have to be anywhere at all for that day. And I reckon that's pretty good. So here is what I'd love to hear from you. What is one thing that you
shifts that you wouldn't get from a conventional Monday to Friday job? Now, maybe it's having the weekdays off, being able to exercise before work, spend time with your family, or simply avoiding the weekend crowds. While we're at it, I'd love to know which shift you actually prefer working. Are you an early start? Do you like afternoons? Or are you one of those people like myself who genuinely love the nights? Let me know, because I think this would be really interesting to hear how different people make shift work fit their lives. And I hope on the conclusion of these four episodes, it's given you something to think about. It doesn't have to be all doom and gloom. You're a shift worker. Be proud of that. Be proud of the opportunities you've actually got. Re-listen when you're in a down or about shift work, re-listen to these four episodes. Pump yourself back up again with them. Start looking through a lens of what really works for you with shift work because it's a pretty good thing. If you've got a colleague, if you personally know of a colleague who is always talking about how much they love their roster, send them this episode. Or if they're talking about the downside of shift work, put them onto this series and say, hey, have a listen. Thank you for listening. If today's episode resonated with you, don't let the conversation stop here. Share it with a colleague, a manager, a friend, a leader, or someone who has the opportunity to improve the lives of people working in a 24-7 environment. Because real change starts with awareness. And awareness changes conversations, and conversations change organisations. And organisations change lives. So thank you for spending this time with me. And until next time, I want you to remember this. It doesn't have to be this way. Take care of yourself and take care of each other.