Welcome to A Healthy Shift | The Shift Work Podcast, the podcast helping shift workers thrive while changing how organisations think about people working in 24/7 environments.
Hosted by Roger Sutherland, Australia's Night Shift & Sleep Specialist, this is where evidence meets lived experience.
After more than 40 years of working rotating shifts with Victoria Police, followed by years studying nutrition, circadian biology, chrononutrition, sleep, human performance and women's health, Roger is on a mission to challenge the belief that fatigue, poor sleep, burnout and declining health are simply part of working shifts.
Because they don't have to be.
Whether you're a nurse, paramedic, police officer, firefighter, doctor, aged care worker, manufacturing employee, FIFO worker, miner, pilot, flight attendant, truck driver, dispatcher, or anyone working outside the traditional 9-to-5, this podcast will give you practical, evidence-based strategies to help you sleep better, improve your energy, optimise your health and perform at your best.
If you're a leader, manager, People & Culture professional, WHS specialist, or responsible for leading a 24/7 workforce, you'll discover a different way of thinking about shift work—one that focuses on building shift work capability from within through education, leadership and practical systems that create healthier people, stronger teams and higher-performing organisations.
Each episode explores topics including:
• Shift work • Night shift • Sleep after night shift • Circadian rhythm • Fatigue management • Shift worker health • Nutrition for shift workers • Chrononutrition • Recovery and resilience • Women's health and shift work • Leadership in 24/7 organisations • Human performance • Workplace wellbeing • Fatigue risk management • Building healthier, safer and higher-performing workplaces
This isn't another podcast offering generic health tips.
It's a podcast about changing the future of shift work.
Because healthier people create stronger teams.
Stronger teams build better organisations.
And it all starts by understanding how to work with biology, not against it.
Across the last few episodes, I’ve talked about what I believe is missing in the way many organisations support their shift-working workforce. In this episode, I want to turn that conversation around and look at what we could actually build instead.
What does a shift-work-capable organisation look like?
For me, it isn’t an organisation where nobody gets tired, nobody struggles with nights, and we somehow remove the biological challenges of working around the clock. That isn’t realistic.
It’s an organisation where people are given more than a roster. They’re given the education to understand what that roster is asking of their biology and practical strategies to help them manage it.
In this episode, I explore what that could look like from the moment someone joins a 24/7 workforce: shift-work-specific education, advice that reflects the reality of their actual roster, leaders who understand the demands their people are facing, and credible knowledge that remains available where the shift work actually happens — including at 3 am.
I also discuss the role of developing people from within the workforce who understand the roster, workplace and culture because they live it themselves. Not as clinicians or workplace health experts, but as educated Shift Work Champions™ who can help keep good conversations and credible information alive while understanding the boundaries of their role.
Importantly, building capability isn’t something an organisation does once and considers finished. It means continuing to listen to the workforce, learn what’s working, identify what isn’t, and review, refine and expand the approach over time.
My vision is simple: I want us to reach a point where handing someone their first shift-work roster without also teaching them how to manage it seems completely outdated.
We may never remove the challenges of shift work, but I believe we can become much better at preparing and supporting the people we ask to do it.
Learn more about Shift Work Champions™ and download the updated Executive Brief using the link below.
Roger Sutherland is Australia's Night Shift & Sleep Specialist and the founder of A Healthy Shift.
After more than 40 years working rotating shifts with Victoria Police, Roger now helps organisations reduce fatigue risk, improve staff wellbeing and build healthier, safer and higher-performing 24/7 workplaces through evidence-based education, circadian biology and the Shift Work Champions™ Framework.
Disclaimer: Roger Sutherland is not a doctor or a medical professional. Always consult a physician before implementing any strategies mentioned in this podcast. Use of this information is strictly at your own risk. Roger Sutherland will not assume any liability for direct or indirect losses or damages that may result from the use of the information contained in this podcast, including but not limited to economic loss, injury, illness, or death.
We've spent the last few episodes talking about what organizations may be missing when it comes to shift work. But today I want to turn the conversation around. I don't want to talk about the problem anymore. Let's talk about what good could actually look like. If you and I, again, are having that coffee and you ask me, Rog, Rog, I've got to ask you, if we actually got this right, what would a shift work capable organization look like? I would probably spit my coffee out and go, well, my answer wouldn't be a workplace where everyone gets tired, nobody calls sick, and everybody loves night shift, because that's not realistic. But what I would do is I'd describe an organization where the people working shifts understand what's happening to them. Where leaders understand the domain demands that they're placing on those people, and where knowledge about managing shift work actually lives inside the organization, because that is where we need to get to. Because it doesn't have to be this way. Whether you're a shift worker, trying to feel better, or a leader responsible for the people who keep your organisation running around the clock, you're in the right place. Welcome to a healthy shift. I'm Roger Sutherland, and after more than four decades of working 24-7 shifts with Victoria Plus, followed by years of studying nutrition, circadian biology, human performance, and working with literally thousands of shift workers, I've made it my mission to change the conversation around shift work. Because healthier people create stronger teams, and stronger teams build better organizations. And it all starts by understanding how to work with your biology and not against it.
Let's get into today's episode. Today's episode. And, you know, I know that this is the line that I've gone down, and this is my mission to change the way 24-7 organizations educate their staff because I think that's where it starts. And this I so strongly believe in my framework around this. We started by asking whether choosing not to spend the money on shift work education really means you're saving it. And then I asked whether organizations are giving people a roster without actually teaching them how to work it. We looked at who owns shift worker health capability. And in the last episode, we talk about what happens after the seminar. Because if the knowledge leaves the room with the educator, you guessed it, you only rented it. So today I want to finish up this series by looking forward.
No more about the detrimental side. What are we actually trying to build? And if you ask me what shift work capable organization looks like, I'd probably start with it doesn't look like. It doesn't mean we've somehow solved shift work. We're not going to educate the circadian rhythm out of somebody. A night shift is always still going to be a night shift. People are still going to be required to remain awake and perform during a time when their biology is promoting sleep. Daytime sleep is still going to present challenges. People still have families, kids, commutes, appointments, sporting commitments, and lives outside of their shift working job. And there will still be very difficult nights. There will still be fatigue. And people will still make choices that aren't perfect. That's being human. So when I talk about building shift work capability, I'm not promising some magical workplace where everybody is perfectly aligned and bouncing into a 12-hour night shift full of energy. What I'm talking about is giving people a better chance of managing it well.
Let's imagine two different workplaces. In the first one, a new employee drawn to 24-7 roster. They're trained to do their job and then they're handed their roster. They ask the person beside them, how do you sleep after the nights? And they get a couple of beers, mate, you'll be right. Or don't worry, nut it out, you'll get used to it. Or maybe just stay awake after your last night shift and reset yourself. And you see, this is how poor knowledge gets transferred. One shift worker to another. Years of workplace folklore. Now, some of it might be really useful, and some of it might be harmless, and some of it might make managing shift work considerably harder. So now let's look at the second organization. This is the organization that I'm trying to build. A new employee joins, and shift work education is simply part of preparing them for the role. They're taught, okay, mate, now this is your roster. But here's what working this roster is going to ask of your biology. They learn the basics of their circadian rhythm. They understand why four o'clock in the morning can feel so bloody difficult. They understand why they can drive home exhausted and then suddenly feel more awake when they're trying to sleep. They understand that light matters, sleep matters, movement matters, nutrient timing matters, and caffeine, how much it's impacting. They don't need a degree in circadian biology. What they need is enough to understand to make better decisions. That's capability. Now imagine that education isn't delivered in isolation from the actual roster. Instead of generic health advice or go and have a look at the notice board, we look at the shifts that these people actually work. If they finish at six in the morning, let's talk about six in the morning. If they're rotating from days on to nights, let's talk about that transition. If they work permanent nights, let's talk about the reality of that too. If they work two nights or seven, that's relevant. Now we're not trying to force the worker into some perfect health template. We're trying to make the education fit the human being and the roster that they're actually working. And that's what a good start looks like to me.
But let's move beyond the individual worker because a shift work capable organization also needs leaders who understand the issue. Now, I'm not saying every manager needs to become a sleep expert. Far from it. But imagine the difference if supervisors and leaders had enough of an understanding of shift work biology to recognize the environment that their people are operating in. They understand that fatigue isn't simply somebody being lazy. They understand that daytime sleep isn't necessarily equivalent to sleeping overnight. And they understand why rostered transitions can be difficult. They understand why somebody working through the biological night might not respond to generic well-being advice in exactly the same way as someone who's working nine to five. They understand changes in conversations. And I think that's important. Because culture isn't only when you've written a policy. Culture is what happens when somebody says, I'm really struggling with knights. And what's the response? Is it that's the job, everyone's tired, or is it, okay, what's going on? What are you struggling with? What support do we have? And what have you tried? Because those are two very different workplaces. Then we get something I think is absolutely critical.
The knowledge needs to exist where shift work exists. At two in the morning, at four in the morning, on weekends, on public holidays, not on Monday to Friday between nine to five. This is one of the reasons I'm so interested in developing people from within the shift working workforce. Because your well-being manager probably isn't sitting in your mess room at three o'clock in the morning. In fact, I can guarantee it. Your HR team, they're not even there. And I certainly won't be there. I can tell you now, I've done that for 40 years. I'm not going to be doing it now. But your people are. And within those people, there will often be individuals who genuinely care about this stuff. And you know who they are. They're interested, they're asking questions, they're trying to improve by 1% every time. They're trying to improve their own sleep and health. They're already having conversations with their colleagues. But what if we deepen them properly? Again, not as clinicians, not as workplace sleep police, and certainly not as somebody wandering around telling their colleagues what they can and can't eat. And that's not what I'm talking about. I'm just talking about people who understand the fundamentals, understand their boundaries, and can help keep credible shift work conversations alive within the workforce. So now, when somebody says, look, I've started drinking coffee at five in the morning because I'm exhausted, but then I can't sleep when I get home. There's somebody on shift who understands why that conversation matters. They don't need to prescribe a solution. They can help that person think about what they've already been taught and they can reinforce the education. And when something is beyond their role, they know where to direct that person for appropriate support. That is internal capability.
And then I'd want something else from a shift work capable organization. I'd want it to listen. Because this can't be about pushing information down to workers. If you're developing people from within the workforce, you've also created an opportunity to learn. To learn what people are struggling with, which parts of the roster are causing difficulties. What strategies are workers actually able to apply? What is completely unrealistic in this environment? What questions keep coming up and what are we missing? That information is incredibly valuable because now the organization can review what's happening and refine the education and improve resources and identify gaps. And then you can make decisions based on what is actually what sorry, then you can make decisions based on what its actual shift working workforce is experiencing. And that's why the final part of the framework matters so much to me. Review, refine, and expand. We're not installing something and then just walking away. What we're doing is we're learning. Maybe some parts work brilliantly, maybe some don't. Maybe the workforce tells us something completely unexpected. Good. We want to learn from that because I don't want shift work champions to become another rigid workforce program where somebody at head office decides what shift workers need and then pushes it out across an organization. The people actually working the shifts need to be part of the conversation. And if we zoom right out, this is what we see. A shift work capable organization doesn't simply have a fatigue policy sitting somewhere on the intranet. It doesn't just have an EAP number posted on the desktop wallpaper. It doesn't just run a well-being week once a year. And it doesn't simply bring in an educator, tick the box, and move on. Now, all of those things, all of them, all have value. But capability is deeper than that. It's when understanding becomes part of the organization. New people receive the education. Existing workers understand the fundamentals. The advice reflects the reality of the roster. Leaders understand the biological demands that their workforce is facing and structure around it. People within the workforce can keep credible information alive. There are clear boundaries and referral pathways when somebody needs professional support. And the organization continues to listen, to learn, and improve. And that's what I'm talking about when I say internal shift work capability.
And if we're getting towards the bottom of our coffee right now, I'd probably say something else to you. This doesn't seem to happen overnight. You don't need to transform your entire organization tomorrow, but we do have to start somewhere. And what we can do is we can start by asking, what do our people currently know? What education do they receive? What are they struggling with? Where might those struggles be showing up operationally? And what support already exists and what's missing? Who inside our workforce is interested in this? And what could we build from there? Because ultimately, my vision for this goes well beyond delivering seminars. I want us to get to a point where somebody starting a career in a 24-7 organization isn't left to spend the next 10 or 20 years working it all out through trial and error. I want that person to be given a roster and the education to understand it. And I want them to walk into a night shift, knowing that there are people around them who understand what they're going through. That is the organization that I want us to build. And that is the future that I see for Shift Work.
If you are responsible for people that are working around the clock, and you're wondering what building that kind of capability could look like inside your organization, that's exactly why I've developed the Shift Work Champions Enterprise Framework. It starts with understanding your workforce and educating your people, and then it moves through practical application, champion development, and building a sustainable internal capability. Now I've put together an updated Shift Work Champions executive brief that explains the framework and my thinking behind it. The link you can find in the show notes, and I encourage you to download it, have a read, and then let's have a shift work strategy session about what already exists inside your organization, what there is that's missing, what could make sense for your workforce, because the goal isn't to make shift work disappear. 24-7 work isn't going anywhere. The opportunity is to get much better at preparing and supporting the people who do it. And maybe one day, handing somebody their first roster without teaching them how to manage it will seem as ridiculous as it should do. It doesn't have to be this way.
Share it with a colleague, a manager, a friend, a leader, or someone who has the opportunity to improve the lives of people working in a 24-7 environment. Because real change starts with awareness, and awareness changes conversations, and conversations change organizations. And organizations change lives. So thank you for spending this time with me. And until next time, I want you to remember this. It doesn't have to be this way. Take care of yourself and take care of each other.
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