Roger Returns And The New Brand

SPEAKER_04 0:02

Roger is a great friend of this program. Roger Studel, the founder of a healthy shift. And the new brand is called Shift Work Champions trademark. Roger is a shift work performance fatigue risk specialist, 40 years frontline in Victoria Police, and uh now doing all sorts of amazing things and work bringing together live experience, work shift, science, practical strategies, all that sort of stuff. But you fired up. What's going on with you?

SPEAKER_03 0:30

Oh, it's been a big fortnight. It's been a massive fortnight since we start talking. Well, I've refreshed the website now. Shiftwork Champions is all go, and we spoke about that last week. We did. Um I want to have people on shift in real time supporting our shift working community. So instead of just going in and delivering a keynote and going, This is what you need to do, and then walking out of the room, my question has been: what happens after that? What happens once I leave the room? Because everyone goes, Oh, that was great, learned a lot out of that. Then they go back to their rosters, they go back to their home life, they go back to everything and they lose.

SPEAKER_04 1:09

Business as usual.

SPEAKER_03 1:09

Business as usual. So what we want to do is we want to bring in, and my idea, and I've read uh trademarked shift work champions, because we champion people in workplaces now for everything. We champion health and well-being, we champion um um inclusion, inclusivity, we champion well, you name it, they're champion. But in 24-7 environments, when you consider that one in five humans are shift workers now in the world, one in five. So over 20% of people are shift workers, we don't have shift work champions supporting people in real

Why Shift Workers Need Real Support

SPEAKER_03 1:45

time. And my question today, and I want people to call up 133693, or they can text in, 0477-693-693. What education did you get as a shift worker? Who taught you how to go about doing shift work? Well, that well, the answer will be neg because nobody would have got it. Well, I did 40 years in an would you consider Victoria Police a large organisation? Major organization. A major organization. Well, we've got 18,000 sworn members now. In in well, probably 1,500 or 1600 short, but they've got 18,000 sworn members. How much shift work education have they got? Zero to start off with. You can't put a flyer on the wall anymore. We are beyond that. We have regulations in Victoria now that we have to educate to combat risk. We have to have systems in control. We have to have open conversations around how we can better structure environments for safety. And shift work is a risk. Full stop, it's a risk. It's a fatigue risk. Um it's it's a we have problems with turning staff over all the time. We have morale issues. Um after the five o'clock news, I want to talk about how on earth did we get to here today, which is a big topic that I want to talk about. How on earth did we get to the stage that we're at right now with the no money? So I'll be bringing that one up. But anyway, Shift Work Champions is Go. I've got my first client that I'm working with at the moment, which is unbelievably exciting. It's an international company who are actually going down the line of having me go in and educate them on their basics, and then I will be coaching a team one-to-one as shift work champions, and then they will then be out there in their workforce on shift with their colleagues, supporting their colleagues with shift work strategies.

SPEAKER_04 3:37

We'll come back to that very shortly. Uh, lots of calls coming in. They'd come and join us 133693. One text in particular says, Tony, this bloke is upsetting. I think he was talking about the previous third caller. Uh talking about using words like rape and sprooking aggression and conspiracy theories. He's entitled to opinion, but he's aggro towards you, disrespect of our Prime Minister, confrontational attitude is unacceptable. Uh take care, says Robin in Boxhill. That's a r that's a legitimate response as well. And then there are a whole lot of text targeted at me saying, Oh, you've just had a big serve. Shane's all over it, you're just ignorant.

SPEAKER_03 4:21

I I won't even comment on it because I I actually to a certain agree with a certain level I agree with Sean. I I've listened to Shane and and there's certain aspects of it that I actually agree with, but I don't want to talk about politics in that. I don't want to talk about the immigration and and so on and so forth. I've got my own opinions on that, and it's so divisive. It used to be religion and um it used to be politics and religion that you couldn't talk about.

SPEAKER_04 4:45

Oh, not my stuff talked about religion and politics.

SPEAKER_03 4:49

Always. I know, but it's so divisive. But now we can't talk about COVID either. And then we can't talk about it. I don't I don't want to talk about it.

SPEAKER_04 4:58

So um and I think I don't want to talk

David On Nights And Extra Pay

SPEAKER_04 5:01

about it. How are you brought my uh David? Say hi. Good morning. You're a shift worker, David? Hi morning, morning, yeah, morning, gents.

SPEAKER_01 5:10

Does that mean I'm a ch I'm a champion? I'm on my way home from work.

SPEAKER_03 5:14

You're a legend. I don't know about a champion because you haven't been trained as a shift work champion yet, but I'm gonna call you a a legend. What do you do, David, and how does shift work impact on you?

SPEAKER_01 5:25

Listen, um I'm I'm blessed. Um I'm a cons I'm a consultant and uh I work on all the big projects, you know, the Tier 1 projects throughout Melbourne. I'm and I'm happy to work nights because I charge a little bit extra. Um it's interesting because you do realize when you do nights and I've been doing this for months and months. There is another community, right? That that's busy working all night the traffic controllers, the concreters, you know, everyone. Um there's so many people that have to work. It's a really good point.

SPEAKER_03 6:00

It's a really good point, David, because we have a whole community of nocturnals, don't we? Of people who are actually out there doing the job. And this is why we have to have our shift workers. I came as I was driving in today, there's taxi drivers, there's Uber drivers around, there's people working on the roads, there's truck drivers driving around, train drivers. Do you know? We forget about we when we think shift worker, we think, oh, nurses, doctors, police, fire, ambulance, but we forget about everybody else. But it really is an entire um network of people all supporting each other on night shift, isn't it? Would that be I mean we thank you very much for that call.

SPEAKER_04 6:42

It's a great call. Nobody forces you into that work. No. No, they no, no one forces me to do that. So you're doing it voluntary. Yeah. Nobody forces me to do this job. I've been doing it.

SPEAKER_03 6:55

No, they don't. But who's someone's gonna ha someone has to keep this radio station running between midnight and 5 30 a.m. Someone's gonna sit in that chair and you've put your hand up to do it. You've said that you'll do it. And that's exactly the same with nurses, with police, with fire, with you know, people are uh in these roles. Someone has to do it. When you put your Amazon order in, someone's got to pick it and get it to you and deliver it. So it has to be done. But you're right, no one forces you to do it. And people say, Oh no, I have to do it. No, you do not. You do not have to do it. And people say, Oh, but it pays the bills. I just want to give you another perspective on that as well. Every night that you do, it's putting another line on the invoice that you have to pay back. Every single night that you do night shift, it's putting a line on the invoice. Because of the because of the mental drain, the physical drain, the health drain. Biological, it's it's biological catalog. If people are not educated, and this is my point, people are not educated on how to optimize their lives around shift work. So they're bumbling their way through it, doing what they think is right. But every time you don't get it right, or every time you work a night, you are working against your normal diurnal circadian rhythm. And every night it puts another line on the invoice, and you might think you're getting away with it, but you're gonna have to pay it back and with interest.

SPEAKER_04 8:16

There's a text that says uh Roger sounds very like Brendan Nottle from the Salvation R. It's funny, it's really good, Andy.

SPEAKER_03 8:23

Well up to Ben Fordham. I thought I was Ben Fordham.

SPEAKER_04 8:25

No, well, last time you were Ben Fordham. Ben Fordham last time. Shane would be real fun at a party, not uh Shane is a little cheeky. Off he goes. Thank you, John. Uh the shift work advert uh adverterial session. Uh is he paying the station for this? Well, that's a very good point. We might have to get him to advertise. Yeah, that's a good idea. Can he come in and educate Type about everything? I do come in here for nothing, just speak at 4 30 in the morning. That's right. Let's be clear on that. And we love you for that. Uh Leo's on the road. We'll come to you the other side. 133 693.

Leo On Thriving Without Micromanagers

SPEAKER_04 8:56

You can come and join us. It is Australia Overnight. Good morning. On the road again. Leo, morning.

SPEAKER_02 9:03

Morning. Um, yeah, I've done my I've been night chef worker most of my life. Uh, I don't think I've had a night shift job that lasted more than probably four months. Uh either I'd quit, get sacked, end a contract, or my favorite. Oh, by the way, Leo, you're starting on night shift on on Monday.

SPEAKER_03 9:22

Yeah, it's an interesting one. Some people really thrive. I know me personally, thrived on night shift. And the general late chronotype person, the general afternoon person, you know, the person that likes to stay up late, get up late, those people do cope a lot better with night shift. Um, and some people, and I'm one of them, I despised day shift. Absolutely despise getting out of bed. Is that how you were, Leah?

SPEAKER_02 9:48

More or less, yeah. I'm I'm I just feel more alive at night. It's just um, and people are different. Um there's no traffic. Um, that's what I like about it more than the ass is no traffic.

SPEAKER_03 10:00

And not only that, but we haven't got people micromanaging over the top either, do you? You tend to have a bit more freedom when you're on night shift. Yep.

SPEAKER_02 10:07

Exactly. I mean, some of the places I've worked, you only see the uh the managers once every three to six months because they have to tick a box.

SPEAKER_03 10:15

Exactly right. Yes. Yeah, that's exactly right. And this is my point. This is what I'm saying. The night shift crew get left alone, get forgotten in a lot of education and systems around. They're the ones that need it. They're the ones that

The Hidden Toll On Health

SPEAKER_03 10:28

need it.

SPEAKER_04 10:28

But Roger, you you would, if you were honest and you would be, you you would say that it did impact the 40 years in which you were involved in the service uh with police here in Victoria. Whilst you love the work, and whilst you gladly did it, it impacted you in ways that maybe you haven't really shared with everybody, and you take responsibility for that.

SPEAKER_03 10:50

Oh, see, this is the point. I I don't go into it's it's my story, but I don't go into how it's impacted on my family life, um, marriages, and I say marriages, um, and and relationships with friends, with people, um, the impact that it had on my health, the constant fluctuations around that. Um shift work and night shift in particular, and it's very lonely as well. You will have noticed doing night shift yourself, how it's hard. Like people will contact you and say, Let's catch up for coffee this morning. Oh, I can't do it. Um the footy, you want to go to the footy. You can't on a Sunday afternoon because you've got night shift.

SPEAKER_04 11:29

I've got to go in, I've got to go in at 10 o'clock Sunday night. Exactly right. And for the most part, people don't understand that. They get they get Oh, why don't you come in?

SPEAKER_03 11:37

Oh, and they say, Oh, teammate, you're around again. Oh, you're down the shop, oh you're around again. Don't you work? Yeah. That used to drive me absolutely crazy. You drop the kids off at school. So many nurses, um, or you know, shift-working mums, police women, are dropping their children off at school or picking them up from school. What the people don't see is they get home from work, they have to get the kids organized, they drop the kids off, they go to sleep, they get up, they have to go and pick the kids up, they've got to deal with the kids in the evening, at night, and then go back to work again.

SPEAKER_04 12:08

Why don't we have uh people like that that that have a sticker on them that says, I am a shift worker, understand that I'm a shift worker along those.

SPEAKER_03 12:16

And everyone's knocking on the door and mowing the lawn. I mean, life's got to go on. I totally understand that life has to go on for our regular people, but just be you know, you have a look at shopping centres around today, day uh during the day, a lot of men walking around, a lot of women walking around. Doesn't mean that they're not workers. They could be shift workers, that they're there during the day doing what they've got to get done during the day.

SPEAKER_04 12:38

I work uh two-day, two-night off, hate the days. There you go. That's an interesting one. Uh, 30 years plus blue scope night shift has been rewarding. However, also has an impact on my family. My husband now retired. I have to live a day life. It's a rush. I want to spend every second awake.

SPEAKER_03 12:57

And that's where I'm at now. Yeah. And that's why I get out of bed at 3:30 to come in here and do this show. I'm alive now. I've turned myself right around from being that night person. If you had said to this to me five years ago, no way would I have been here. Kel, hello.

Kel On Routines And Strategic Naps

SPEAKER_05 13:12

Yeah, good day, guys. How are you? Well, listen, I know we're we're up against it. Can you hear me?

SPEAKER_04 13:16

Loud and clear. Go ahead, Kel.

SPEAKER_05 13:18

Okay. Yeah, so look, I'm driving around at the moment out the back of Pikmin, and I've been doing it since 3 30 this morning. Because I've worked nice here for the last 15 years and nine between nine and one every night. Anyway, so you're no longer doing what you were doing, and you're still behind the voice for the bad. And then, I'm having dinner at two o'clock in the afternoon, I'll go to bed at four or five in the and then you know, get up, depending on how early I was going.

SPEAKER_07 15:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 15:52

Because every night varied by about a four or five hour window.

unknown 15:56

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 15:57

Kelly, you're a good man. Thank you for uh telling us that story. And yet some of us, and I include myself in that, for the most part, last night, for example, we got a bit of a weekend, uh, but by about uh 7 30 court to wait, I thought, well, I'll go and have a nap. And I nap for two hours happily. In I reckon I was asleep within minutes. Yep. For that two hours.

SPEAKER_03 16:15

And that's exactly how I used to do the nights when I was with um Vic Paul. I would do seven nights a night shift, and they would be from 10 p.m. to six a.m. or eleven pm to seven a.m. And I would always have a strategic we call it a nap for an hour and a half, and that's what gets you through. Not only that, but it's important for the brain.

SPEAKER_04 16:34

Very much for the brain, and yet I still get away with it, and then my brain's not that great. Kel, thank you for that quite call. Uh, more the other side of this. It is Australia Overnight. Good morning to you. Good morning. Now, this is Australia Overnight with Tony McMahon. Morning. Um, Melbourne Town just on 90 degrees, top today, 15. Perth 7 degrees, 23 sunny, and Adelaide 10 degrees right now with the top of uh 15 degrees. Uh Roger Sutherland is here from A Healthy Shift uh and the new brand which is uh coming soon. Well, it's here already, really, isn't it? Yeah, Shiftwork Champions. Shiftwork Champions, if you don't mind. Uh lots of text, lots of calls. Uh thank you, Annie, for your text. Very kind of you. Uh Annie, because all that information is important to me, if you could email over and I'll respond to you, overnights at 3aw.com.au. So one word overnights, plural, at 3aw.com.au. Uh Tone and Roger, wait until you have to do a morning day and night for three years, no shower, no bed, not much food. Stop complaining and enjoy life, says 590. Yeah, yeah, I agree. Legitimate. Uh and another one, uh, Michael,

Split Sleep And Biphasic Rest

SPEAKER_04 17:57

thank you. I'm sleeping in a split shift, unfortunately. Go to bed round about 10. 10 p.m. Wake up three to four hours later, listen to Tony's great show, and then go back to sleep round about five for another four to five hours. That split shift is it bad. Depends on demographic and age and uh the health issues.

SPEAKER_03 18:18

Do you know we used to before the um uh well the invention of electric light, we used to literally sleep in two shifts. Like cavemen would sleep in two shifts. They would sleep once it got dark, get up in the middle of the night, perform tasks overnight, then go back to sleep again. It is a perfectly natural thing for us to do to wake up in the middle of the night and go back to sleep. And you know, researchers are actually um starting to do a lot more work around this. There's been some really good blogs circulating recently in relation to this what we call biphasic sleep, sleeping in two um two lots. So is it bad? It's actually natural. Uh Bill in WA. Morning, Bill.

SPEAKER_06 19:01

Morning, guys. Can I can we split this segment into two sections so that I talk again?

SPEAKER_07 19:08

Please.

SPEAKER_06 19:09

Because there's a lot, there's a lot to this. You'll remember Neil Adcock, Graham Aybury, all those presenters before.

SPEAKER_04 19:16

Yeah, Graham Maybury, a dear friend of uh listeners right across WA for a long time, 33 years.

SPEAKER_06 19:21

I've had a problem with sleeping since school. Okay, so as soon as I was old enough to go get a job, I've always had night shifts. I worked for Wilson for years. I go out now and sell Big Issue in the middle of the night. I won't say where because I'm on air, but uh Big Issues asked me to stop because they thought I'd be in trouble because of uh night life, but I can't sleep. I have never been able to sleep since I left school. So I've always taken night shift jobs, and when I retired from working with Rory Wilson and WA, I went and got a night shift job and I go into all the nightclubs and Billy with with that uh sleeping thing, Bill, did you ever have any treatment for it?

SPEAKER_04 20:09

Did you uh consider getting any?

SPEAKER_06 20:11

Nah, but now now it might have caused, it might have caused, we don't know yet, might have caused heart problems, might have caused stuff. No one knows. But when I was doing permanent night shift, I painted a room in my house black, totally black, and shut out the windows. So if I was going to do night shift, I'd go into that room. And when I was on day shift, I'd go into a and I couldn't sleep, I'd go into the black room and go to sleep.

SPEAKER_03 20:41

Can I just ask a question? There's a number of things around that. One thing that we need to understand as humans is our body is literally responding to the signals that we're giving it. So if we're out of kilter or off-center, we've got to look at the signals that we're actually giving it. So I would ask about stress. Now you've said you've painted your room black and you've also blocked out your windows, so you've got your darkness. Temperature's got to be right. We've got to be careful at the times that we actually eat. Do we have pets? A lot of people get woken up by pets, cats, and dogs coming in and out of their rooms all the time. Um, our body is literally only responding. And if you go back into a normal diurnal cycle and take everything out that is impacting on your sleep at night, your body will respond to the signals that you're actually giving it. And this is one of the ways that I work with clients around this because stress contributes massively to poor sleep.

SPEAKER_04 21:42

Uh good on you. Thank you very much for that great call, Bill. We've got to move on, unfortunately, otherwise we're going to run out of time. Uh you sent me a one-word uh uh one-word line. Yes. Uh so share with the audience across Australia that line.

SPEAKER_03 21:55

All right. So what it is is there's no money, but that's not gonna cut it anymore.

SPEAKER_04 22:00

So is it not is that not legitimate given that both Fed and state were in a financial crisis in terms of debt?

SPEAKER_03 22:08

They might be in debt. I'm gonna make this quite clear, all right. The point that I'm making here is there's no money, but that's not gonna cut it anymore. We can't turn round telling the chief commissioner of police, sorry, there's no money. Now you can say, but there is no money. What I'm saying is it's not a priority. We haven't made our police a priority. We haven't made our nurses a priority, our paramedics, we've not made them a priority. Our teachers, we've not made them a priority. Our roads, we've not made them a priority. Hospitals. Because we've we've spent money in so many different areas as a priority. Now, a lot of people say to me, Oh, there's a cost of living crisis

No Money Is Not Good Enough

SPEAKER_03 22:47

with no money. I've literally just travelled to Europe. Those planes leaving Melbourne are full of people going. Away on holidays, right? So, and people are at shopping centres and they're buying, they're spending, but it's not a priority to look after their health. Car sales at all time high. Car sales are at all time high. New cars on the road, houses. Now, the point that I want to make here, and I want to be very careful and very clear on this point because it's important. We can't turn around and say to the chief commissioner of police, there's no money, and he's just shoestring budget and cut the budget. Because we're already nearly 1,600 police officers down, right? And the people that are left behind, and you've seen the front page of the Herald Sun today, and I I heard you mention it before I came in today.

SPEAKER_04 23:32

For those that didn't haven't seen it, so the headline in the Herald Sun is large letters, Cops Desk Warfare.

SPEAKER_03 23:40

Yeah, it's horrendous. Now notoriously, this government cannot get IT right.

SPEAKER_04 23:46

It's the Victorian State.

SPEAKER_03 23:47

The Victorian State government, but governments full stop, can't get projects and can't get IT right. Commissioner Bush came in to Victoria Police and couldn't believe it when he looked at the IT system and how antiquated it was. And went about fixing it to get police back on the road. All right. Now he's doing things at the moment to get police back on the road. So now we're what stat collecting and doing the admin for the court system. Right. So we've created space to do this. He would be furious at this. He would be absolutely furious that here he is doing everything he can in one, in on one hand, but on the other hand, they're taking away. Now, I know, I noticed in my time in Vicpol, towards the end of my time in Vicpol, all we are is insurance stat collectors going around collecting data. There is no efficient system in Vicpol. There's no efficient system in hospitals, no efficient systems for paramedics. The duplication of entering data over and over and over again is just outrageous. And what we're doing is we are burning out good people and we're not looking after the people that we've got. Now, what we're doing is we're trying to recruit our way out of a crisis. Um Daniel Andrews brought in that paramedics could qualify, nurses could qualify for free, and they could become nurses. But there's no jobs. They're all walking around with no jobs now.

SPEAKER_04 25:13

All that is absolutely legitimate. And and and I think most of us would understand that that is the case. Yes. So we understand what the issues are. Yep. And as we've been saying for some time, what are the solutions?

SPEAKER_03 25:26

Well, we've got to start prioritizing it. Instead of turning around and spending money on projects and things that we are not prioritizing, we've got to prioritise our emergency services and our teachers. Full stop.

SPEAKER_04 25:39

133693, come and have your say. Look at all the texts. We're not going to get through them all, but thank you very much. But you can certainly send an email overnights at 3aw.com.au. Good morning, Tone. Great to hear you both. Fabulous weekend. Thank you. A T and W, Tanya and William in Mandaloza. Good morning to you. Listening to the program from Annie, thank you. I think we read that. Brother could you read Jeff White? It's a lot of oh, you're talking about the band. Thank you for that. Um but yes, you're right, Leo Dalton. We were talking about Leo Dalton, somebody who's a great guitarist with the Hawking Brothers all those years ago. I'm looking at you because of the Hawking Brothers. Young ones, they just don't understand. Oh, it is it is Australia overnight. Good morning. Must be a Monday morning, 19 past five. Hello to you. Uh joining Roger Sutherland. He's here, Healthy Shifter and creator of uh Shift to Work Champions. Uh the topic is no money, but that's just not going to cut it anymore. Uh I wish there was a definitive answer around that.

SPEAKER_03 26:41

Yeah, I do too.

Stop Accepting Decline As Normal

SPEAKER_03 26:41

I I I honestly do, but it it's very frustrating to watch at the moment. Very frustrating to watch for everyone. Oh, yes, that's right.

SPEAKER_04 26:50

How long did you driven from Ballarat back to Melbourne on the road?

SPEAKER_03 26:53

Well, I drove to Warnerbull. How was that? Oh my lord, it's like a minefield. It's awful. It is literally like a minefield.

SPEAKER_04 26:59

And it's uh it's almost as if well, not much we can do. No, but see this. We've got no money.

SPEAKER_03 27:05

No, because we've accepted, we've accepted where we're at, right? Because it is so bad. Like, every time you turn the TV on or you turn the news on or you listen, you listen to the radio or whatever, um, it's another cry. Look at this poor um man that tried to stop the girl in his car reversed over in his driveway the other day. That's critical.

SPEAKER_04 27:24

Dreadfully sad.

SPEAKER_03 27:25

Now we look at that and we go, yeah, another Dame Victoria. We should not be saying that. We should not be saying, Oh, it's just another Dame Victoria. That's become our normal now. It's our catch cry. Oh, another Dame Victoria. Um, or another day in this country or or whatever. We we need to be pushing back and fighting against it. I don't know what the answer is, but we need to be standing up and fighting.

SPEAKER_04 27:45

There was a uh, I think last Thursday, Friday in the news, there was a uh I I think a husband and wife team that uh had they'd gone out, they'd left the service after many, many years, uh, and they it was celebrated they'd been brought back in to do work, which was fantastic. Yep. Which you've been asked to do that, but you probably wouldn't. No, I never got an invite. Oh, you did? Oh, you didn't. I never even got an invite. I think the Commission will tap you on the shoulder at some point. Yep. Too many years uh too many years the wealthy are not paying their way, according to uh text 174. There were workers must now uh pay the bulk of tax for uh government. And there's a very long, wonderful text ending in 340. If you could put that into an email, it would be really helpful because we could because we can't open all those tabs. But if you send it an email, I'll come back to you on it. Overnights at 3aw.com.au. David Warnable, just a quickie, good morning.

SPEAKER_00 28:36

Good morning. I just wanted to I just heard you cross something about police or something, and uh I thought we thought I'll ring up and say something more scarce. It's about uh my son-in-law's situation is he wants to be in the police force, whatever he's he's been a policeman overseas for eight years. He's uh actually with he's looking after the prisoners now and he's he's waiting for his permanent ent entry or something, and it's government, whatever's going on. But he tells me he does his job so well, he's such a big man in a situation he's protecting uh his his co-workers and everything like that. He said he has a lot of women there he said that uh um uh look they're they're understaffed every night, but he wants to be a Victorian policeman. You know, and he he's he just can't wait until he goes to the academy and and take up his chosen profession. Yeah. And he's like you said, he's built like uh Arnold

Police Hiring Delays And Better Recruiting

SPEAKER_00 29:33

Schwarzenegger. Yep. And he's a fully trained uh policeman and can't can't get the job.

SPEAKER_03 29:38

And David, the question that I would ask is how long's he been in the system? Can you answer that? How long is it since he first applied to where he's at now?

SPEAKER_00 29:49

Well, it's got to be the best part of two years, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 29:51

There you go. See, this and this is common. This is common, Tony.

SPEAKER_04 29:56

This is what people that is. Why is that the case then?

SPEAKER_03 29:58

Why is the gap for two years in that case? They're so understaffed everywhere that even processing the applications and trying to get people through, they're having massive problems with being able to do just that. Don't believe the smoke and mirrors. Now, these these um reservists that they've brought back in, some of them have been put through. I know there's a lot of reservists that are still waiting. They've been in the system and and they're commenting in forums and saying it looks like it's got worse, nothing's changed. It's so slow the process of getting people through and getting people in, and that needs to be expedited. So we can't turn around and if it's happening in in, say, that department, we're talking about because that's I'm just talking about VicPole here at the moment. But yeah.

SPEAKER_04 30:41

And presumably it's happening in other departments.

SPEAKER_03 30:44

I'm sure it is. I know West Australia are crying for um police at the moment as well. I know they are desperately trying to get police and trying to make the job better because I you know, I follow their pages, I follow their their union pages and things like that. It's not and I want to make this clear, it's not just Victoria, right? It is worldwide this problem with policing. It's worldwide, it's everywhere that we have this problem. It's in the US, the UK are on their knees, they've got massive turnover, big problems. So, my question in relation to that is are we recruiting the right people? That's right. And maybe that's the whole that's maybe that's holding it up. Because the way we advertise, you can fly a helicopter and you can play with a dog and you can ride a motorbike, and people join thinking that that's what they're going to do. And then within two years they want to know when do I get to ride the motorbike and play with the dog? And yeah, sorry. All I'm doing is being hospital guard or I'm I'm actually dealing with family violence.

SPEAKER_04 31:38

Which which may feel is demeaning the right word?

SPEAKER_03 31:41

Yeah, well, it's not what was advertised. No, not what was advertised, and a different generation, too, T Mac. Yeah, it's a different generation of people. They're an entitled society and they want to be able to do all of these things that you know that that's been advertised. This is why I've joined. That's what I want. When I joined in eight in the 80s, I was career. That's what I wanted to do. I did it for 40 years. That's it. That's all I've wanted to do.

SPEAKER_04 32:05

And you're a good man, don't go away. Look at all the uh texts. Uh there were there were a lot of uh women that were attracted into Vic Pole and and are they still doing that? Are they still trying to attract more women to fill some of the I wouldn't think so?

SPEAKER_03 32:28

I think they'll take they'll take what they can get now. I I wouldn't say that they would be there's a text here, are females being fast tracked? And I wouldn't say yes. I would not say yes. It would be what they could get. Yeah, of course. It's about hands up. Um yeah, and also the police force has been destroyed by hiring women and men who aren't men.

SPEAKER_04 32:46

Gotta go demographic. Yeah, gotta go.