Welcome And Roger’s Background

SPEAKER_07 1:37

Longtime contributor to Australia overnight is Roger Sutherland. Lots of things to uh talk about. Uh Roger is founder of a Healthy Shift, creator of Shift Work Champions, Shift Work Performance, Fatigue Risk Specialist. How many years? 40. 40 years in the frontline shift work experience at Victoria Police. Roger nice to see you. And you too. Nice to see you. How was the trip? I knew you'd ask.

SPEAKER_06 2:03

Oh, of course I haven't seen you.

SPEAKER_07 2:04

I know. Um I'm sure you've covered it over and over again. Well, it's only a week ago, so uh you're still on you're still in it was it was really good to have the break, and it's not until you have the break, as you've been telling me for some years now, that you realise how much you needed the break.

SPEAKER_06 2:20

Just to get some daylight during the day and sleep in the dark at night makes a big difference. How long did it take you to adjust?

SPEAKER_07 2:27

Um I'm thinking I'm thinking probably only a day and a bit. Yeah. That's nice. Lovely. So I'm maybe I'm a bit lucky in that. Um having said that, I felt like a nap, you know, around about 3.30 or 4 in the afternoon. Yeah, but that's a natural slump in our circadian rhythm.

SPEAKER_06 2:47

Between 3 o'clock and 5 o'clock, oh sorry, between 2 o'clock and 4 o'clock is a natural slump in our circadian rhythm that we do. You know, you know when we have go out and we have a lunch, and then we after we've had lunch, we get to the afternoon, we think, oh, I'm a bit ready for a poppy nap now. That's actually a natural slump in our circadian rhythm. And all you've got to do is work through that, and then you come out to the highest cardiovascular time in our body when that's when you hit the PBs. Why didn't our bodies do that when we were 23 or 24? Well, they actually did, but we were just younger and just going for it all the time. More vital.

SPEAKER_07 3:25

Yes. Vital. Having said that, uh on the programme earlier, I made the point. I mean, the weather in Melbourne has been unbelievable. I went to the footy yesterday, it was like the summer. Yeah. Incredible. Oh, unbelievable. And it was just, I mean, the air is a little chilly, yeah, but the sun shines, the sky's blue, and there's little or no wind.

SPEAKER_06 3:46

And what I love too is I've been on my Instagram stories, I've been doing the walk around the river that I do every morning.

Resetting Sleep With Daylight

SPEAKER_06 3:53

And people have been commenting how green and how vibrant the colours are at the moment because it's um with the sun shining, this grass is so green to the rest of the world at the moment. Like as they're looking, they're going, Oh my goodness, your grass is so green. Um, and of course, you know, that beautiful blue sky that we need so much of. Which brings me to the topic that I really want to talk about tonight uh or this morning. Very important. This slipped through, uh, hasn't made news here, but it's it's it's huge in the US in scientific circles. And it is. Yeah. The US Congress have just voted in the Sunshine Protection Act bill. And this is really, really unique. So it's passed the Congress. Yeah, Congress voted at 308 for and 117 against, right? Now, this bill, wait for it, means there will be no more clock changes. It'll be permanent summertime, on permanent summertime in the US. Now, that doesn't mean it's come in yet. It means Congress has actually voted for it overwhelmingly, but now it's got to go to the Senate to be voted. Well, I can tell you researchers and scientists are absolutely up in awe about this at the moment because this is going to have severe biological impacts on people. Now, there's two things I want to say on this. Number one is we have to stop the clock changes.

SPEAKER_07 5:16

So just before you get to that so we're all clear. Yes. So what this means is that they were they they'll still have the division between, say, the uh eastern states and the time zones. Time zones. That doesn't change. No. Except that they will have a time where they don't alter it their time zones even during summer months.

SPEAKER_06 5:38

No, that's right. There'll be no clock changes. What it means is I mean, sorry, if you're if you're travelling from east to west, you're still going to go through time zones.

SPEAKER_07 5:45

Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_06 5:46

But every clock

The US Votes On Permanent Summer Time

SPEAKER_06 5:47

will be on advanced summertime permanently. That's it. Now they tried this before the US, it only lasted 10 months, and people were screaming about it. And there's a very good reason for it. So what I want callers to call us and ask us a qu tell us, would you like to go to permanent summertime? Now I've touched on this before on this show, but would you like to go to permanent summertime? That's my question to you. When you think about what it is, give us a call on 133 693 or text us in on 0477 693 693. Let us know would you want to go to permanent summertime and stay there forever. Why? And if not, why not? Exactly right. If you don't want to, why don't you? If you do want to, why do you? And then I'll give you a reasons why we should not ever go to summertime. Not just in the summer, but we should never go to summertime.

SPEAKER_07 6:45

So what we know is Perth don't have summertime. Correct. Or Queensland. Queensland doesn't have summertime. No. So for the rest of, let's keep this safe for Victoria for the moment. So South Australia. And South Australia. But let's just, because of the half-hour time difference. Yeah, which is again even a bit more confusing. Of course. So how it would work is that all year we would set the alarm and eight o'clock would be in fact seven o'clock.

SPEAKER_06 7:15

Correct. Across the whole country. Across the whole country. That would mean that WA, West Australia, would be going to summertime. But it'd be pitch. So during winter it would be pitch, pitch, pitch, pitch. Now you make a point. And this is the point that I want to make. Early light is integral for human health. Early light is integral. So what I want to say is, while we think of summertime and think of barbecues and being out in the garden in the evening and how beautiful it is, that's not how it looks in the winter. Because in the winter, I'll tell you what it looks like. It looks like driving your children to school in the dark at nine o'clock in the morning. In the dark. Not just, not, you know, like in the winter, like in June, July, like now, it would be dark for people driving kids. Kids would be standing at bus stops. Kids would be starting school in classrooms in the dark with the lights on. Now, there's arguments at the moment for starting school later. Right? A lot of arguments for starting schools later. Rather than nine o'clock. Rather than nine o'clock. I agree. It's a dumbass thing to skip. 100%. Every school at 8:30, 9 o'clock. 100%. Totally agree with you on that. And the reason why I agree with that, because children and teenagers' natural circadian cycle, they're late chronotypes. So they are up later and they sleep, um, they want to sleep in later in the morning. If we started school at 11 o'clock and finished at like 5 or 6 and shifted it, you would find that the kids would thrive a lot better at school.

SPEAKER_07 8:44

Big issue though, I'm not sure how to how did mum and dad, two people in the household working, or two dads, two mums, whatever the case may be, that are working, how do they then manage to get the kids to school at, say, 10 30 or 11 o'clock?

SPEAKER_06 8:58

Would it make it easier though? Because it would mean that one parent could drop them off and the other parent could pick them up.

SPEAKER_07 9:04

But what if both both parents have to start work at 8 30 or 9 o'clock?

SPEAKER_06 9:08

That is a problem. That's the issue. Yeah, it is. But then are we working towards flexible working agreements now, like working from home and things like that, which the government are trying to push here, which I think is fraught with a disaster personally. Um, but if we're working with flexible working agreements, we're not in a position now where we should maybe compensate that. Now, I don't want to talk about the school thing because I think it's a major problem, but the light is a huge issue for our human health. And one would offset maybe the the other, in terms of the benefits. But I will say this though, it's very, very important that we stop these clock changes. Research is very clear that around the time that the clock advances and around the time the clock goes back, there's more heart attacks, there's more strokes, there's more car accidents. Uh it's very, very clear. The evidence is very clear around this. And this is what US Congress has looked at and gone, let's create a bill so there's no clock changes to avoid this. But they've chosen the wrong time. They've gone with summer time instead of going back to standard time. And that is the problem.

SPEAKER_07 10:11

In other words, not having daylight saving.

SPEAKER_06 10:13

Not having daylight saving at all. Because you're still going to get the light. Remember, it's still going to be light until eight o'clock at night in the summer.

SPEAKER_07 10:19

See, I'm not a fan of daylight saving.

SPEAKER_06 10:22

No. Well, I f okay, let's hear. I think you'll find a lot of people are very for it. And they think of it as summer, but they forget about what it would look like in the winter.

SPEAKER_07 10:31

Uh Tone and Roger, I believe permanent summer time off brighter evenings, but causes darker winter mornings. Uh something or rather sleep-reduced monitoring, alertness, increased safety concerns, and effects. David's 100%. He's right absolutely on the money, and the research supports that as well. Uh, four four to five months is enough for daylight saving.

SPEAKER_06 10:54

Yeah, I don't think we should have it at all. That's my personal opinion. Bruce says yes. Yeah. Why, Bruce? I'd love to know. Yeah. So I I I think it's it's an important topic that people want because um a lot of people have argued uh what you do is you just phase shift into that new time. Like like you do when you go on holiday, you just phase shift into a new time. But research shows it's very clear, it actually reduces our sleep, and we're not getting that daylight that our normal diurnal body needs first thing in the morning. It's a really important thing.

SPEAKER_07 11:28

Summertime, no wonder the world's gone mad, people, ever since daylight saving has been around. Oh, Bruno, a little harsh, but I think we know where you're going. Tone and Roger. I believe permanent summertime off brighter evenings,

Dark Winter Mornings And Health Risks

SPEAKER_07 11:40

but causes darker winter mornings. Oh, we read that one earlier this year. Yeah, yeah, sorry.

SPEAKER_06 11:44

Sleep reduced monitoring. Yeah, yeah. So it's a um the darker mornings are where the problem lies. If we suffer from what we call sad at the moment, which is seasonal affective disorder, and we do, a lot of us, people in wintertime are miserable because they're not getting as much daylight. Imagine what it's like getting up and going, showering, getting, having breakfast, walking to work in the dark.

SPEAKER_07 12:08

So this change is happening in the United States, possibly, is what you're saying is shouldn't be here. 100% no. And would you say we get rid of daylight saving altogether? Altogether. Right across the whole country. Let's ask the audience. So 133 693, would you like to see no daylight saving right across Australia? No daylight saving right across Australia. And for what reason? Why? 133693. Send a text if that's a little easier this time of the morning. 0477 693 693. We'll get to those uh calls in just a moment. Uh Sarah Dennis, we'll come to you in a tick. Uh the US Congress has just passed the love it, the Sunshine Protection Act, which is a metaphor for no sunshine for you. How are they protecting the sunshine? Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 14:16

How are they protecting it? It's a it's a weird name just for the Act, to be honest. The Sunshine Protection Act. So they'll be in a constant state of if if you like. Summertime. Summertime. Well, yeah, I know, but it's not summertime. It's just summertime. What they've done is they're fixing the clock. And and I want to be clear too. Remember, there will still be time zones across the world, right? So not everyone's going to the same time. It just means that all clocks will be advanced an hour to summertime permanently in the US, which is not healthy.

SPEAKER_07 14:47

Uh by the way of calls, let's go to Sarah. Good morning.

SPEAKER_09 14:54

Good morning. How are you going?

SPEAKER_07 14:55

Sarah, thank you for asking. So summertime, no summertime.

SPEAKER_09 14:59

Absolutely summertime.

SPEAKER_07 15:00

You love the summertime.

SPEAKER_06 15:02

All year round. But what about, Sarah, what about going to work in the morning or being around in the morning at 8 30, 9 o'clock in the morning when it's still peach plate? Yep.

SPEAKER_09 15:17

What about sunshine and the light in the afternoon and evening?

SPEAKER_06 15:23

I know, but in the wintertime, you've got to remember when we look at the winter solstice, it would still be dark at 6 o'clock.

SPEAKER_09 15:30

Better than 4 45.

SPEAKER_06 15:35

So each their own. What about the the the there's a biological impact that you know we we pay a tax on this? You know, I'm sorry, I shouldn't use that term, should I? You shouldn't. We don't pay attack. We don't we don't have to pay attack. We're not taxing sunlight. I reckon they would have they'd have a crack. Um but there will be a biological impact on on this. But it's um a lot of people really suffer with it.

SPEAKER_08 15:59

And look, as a shift worker, that's already there for me personally. I get for everybody else, of course. That's yeah, that would probably be amazing.

SPEAKER_06 16:07

Good call. Thank you very much for that. I appreciate it. It's good to have the insight that people would absolutely go for it as long as they understand what it looks like.

SPEAKER_07 16:15

I want to find out from uh mums in particular and dads, secondly, and if there's any uh young students listening, how would they feel about getting up in a cold winter's morning? Oh, it's the mum and dads of the teenage kids.

SPEAKER_06 16:29

Yeah. I want to hear from them. And the reason why I want to hear from them is because they struggle Monday and Tuesday. We've discussed Monday itis, they struggle to get their kids going Monday, Tuesday, regardless. How's it going to be with permanent summertime and it's still dark at eight o'clock, nine o'clock when you're trying to get them organized? Is Monday itis really a thing though? 100% it is. We've discussed it on the radio. No, but uh it's actually a circadian cycle. It's it's biological. It's not just theory, it is biological Monday itis. Danny, morning.

SPEAKER_00 17:00

Morning. I have a question. Yes. When did we when did we first start using time?

SPEAKER_06 17:07

Oh time is something that time is something that is natural. The the Georgian calendar, the the sun rising, sunsetting. If you if you want to live and thrive in a really good, a really good society, go camping and just live as a camper with no electronic devices.

SPEAKER_07 17:28

Hello, campers. Uh Danny, it started uh, I think, in the early to mid-80s when we first had time. No, summer time, that was, but time time. No. The mid-80s. No, it was the mid-80s. Time after time.

unknown 17:44

Cindy.

SPEAKER_07 17:46

Cindy Lauper created it, and we've stuck with it ever since. She acknowledged it. She acknowledged it. Time after time. It's what she was singing about all those years ago.

SPEAKER_00 17:55

I don't want daylight savings.

SPEAKER_06 17:57

No, good. We don't want daylight savings. We just want to stick to the normal time. As per what was what was meant.

SPEAKER_00 18:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 18:06

Thank you. Good to talk to you, Danny. Thanks. No light diving for um uh my body to adjust, especially when doing long haul driving. Well, for many drivers around Australia, that would be a concern too.

SPEAKER_06 18:19

It's okay if you travel now, this is where it would be good travelling north-south in this country. Like if you're on the Eastern Seaboard and you're traveling to Brisbane and back. But um, for Mark of Stahl that sent this text in, just remember, going to Perth, you're still changing time zones going across to Perth and coming back again. So that doesn't change. That's got to be clear on that.

SPEAKER_07 18:40

Shane, what do you think? Uh daylight saving all round or get rid of the whole lot together?

unknown 18:45

I don't want daylight.

SPEAKER_07 18:47

Shane, you got your uh radio on, we'll come back to you.

SPEAKER_04 18:49

Uh I got my new computer on, mate, and it's not turning on. Yeah, I got it now. Is that better? Yep.

SPEAKER_06 18:56

Yeah, Sean, go ahead.

SPEAKER_04 18:57

Yeah, you got a good point. It's a good uh segment, uh Tony. I like the segment, mate. And um the big one, what I'd be concerned about, you've got the autonomic system and the sympathetic system too. I don't want to get too complex, but understand. It's got to be a big switch too that be um, you know, going out of regulation, because you need consistency for the physiological, I suppose, health. And when you're shifting it each year, you're creating a massive um cascade of chemical problems.

SPEAKER_06 19:23

Yeah, but Shane, this is what Congress has voted to avoid changing the times, you see. So what they've done is they're saying, okay, well, we'll get rid of the changes, but we'll get rid of all the strokes and heart attacks that happen because of the time changes, and we'll just vote for a time and we'll put ourselves on a permanent one change so there's no change in the time. But my argument would be, and science's argument is they've chosen the wrong time. And it should be standard time they should have chosen.

SPEAKER_07 19:52

G'day, guys, we're flogging a dead horse again. We have a referendum in WA, and no, no daylight saving. Uh, Tommy and Mount Eliza, good morning.

SPEAKER_01 20:01

Oh, good day, fellas.

SPEAKER_07 20:02

What do you reckon?

SPEAKER_01 20:03

Oh, last year, absolutely disastrous. Daylight savings when it first came in in the really early. Oh, look, I'm old now, about 1970, 71. It was to last just three months on the school holidays, about from the first of December to the first of Feb. They've extended it to further three months.

SPEAKER_06 20:20

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 20:21

Getting little kids into bed when our kids were little, and well, I know this from many parents, was absolute agony. They were more grumpier and um and their days were longer, and you now get chucked in computer screens and phones. This would be catastrophic sleep cycle and affect a whole range of people. I reckon really, really seriously think part of the problem uh across the whole world is that people just do not get enough sleep. And why would you make your situation worse?

SPEAKER_06 20:53

Tom, you are absolutely 100%. And that is my argument because what's been shown is people say, oh, but we're just changing the time that we actually do things. Uh no, we don't, because research is very clear and it shows that we actually don't shift our stuff into the later in the day. What we do is we sacrifice sleep. There's more exposure to artificial light, which is so severely detrimental to um human health.

SPEAKER_07 21:20

Daylight savings are wonderful in summer, ocean grove, beautiful, late afternoon, strolls in the beach, beautiful, no good in the winter, not enough light, and way too cold. 100%. Yep. Uh thank you for all those that text, and we will continue uh more calls the other side. 133 693. Now, this is Australia overnight with Tony McMahon. Good morning, my people. Uh, if you have just joined in, nice to have your company. Uh, Roger Sutherland from A Healthy Shift is here. You know, after working 40 years shift working, now educating, doing that 24-7 workforces, uh, he's identified a problem. What is the problem, you're asking? What what happens after the workplace education session ends? That question has taken you, Roger, in a let's say, whole new direction. If you're uh creating this thing now called Shift Work Champions. Trademarked. Shift Work Champions, a new enterprise framework, disguised, no, designed, thank you, to educate the uh workforce, develop selected employees, and help organizations build greater shift work capability from uh within. So just explain to moi and to us and to the listener shift work champions, and why do you believe 24-7 organizations need a a a different approach?

SPEAKER_06 22:49

Well, I don't I I've identified that with a lot of following and talking to shift workers over the last eight years, no one educates their shift workers how to optimize their lives around shift work, how to effectively work shift work at all. And this is a big problem. And over the last seven, eight years, I've been walking into shift work environments and delivering keynotes for like an hour and a half, two hours. And the question is, what happens after I walk out of the room? Right? So I walk out of the room once that's done, and you know, people just go through the keynotes and they learn and they go, Oh, that was fantastic. But what happens after that? Not much, probably, not much change. No, not a lot changes, and I think there's a big problem. Now, what I have looked at is we need people educated in real time on the floor working with these shift other shift workers in organizations, and organizations need to be in a position where they have these people on shift in real time saying to someone, when someone says, Oh my god, I'm so tired, I can't sleep at all, have you tried this? Have you done that? Now look, we champion people in everything in workplaces today. We have um inclusivity champions, we have health and well-being champions, we have safety champions, we champion everyone. We're in a 24-7 environment, we don't have shift work champions. So I've identified this, and what I've done is I've trademarked shift work champions, and I'm bringing education. So this is a whole internal capability framework that I've built. It's been a massive month for me. So what I've done is I've actually I go in, deliver the keynote to the workforce, and then the workforce actually identifies at their invitation. At their oh, yeah, at their invitation, obviously. So work for this becomes part of I would have a conversation with their people and culture or their human resources or whoever.

Shift Work Champions And Real Support

SPEAKER_06 24:49

Have a conversation. What problems are you actually experiencing? How can we address them? How can I support you? How can I help you with it? Now, one of the things that I get Out of feedback for my shipnote is he gets it because I've done shift work for 40 years, so I know exactly what it's like to walk in the shoes of those employers. I'm not a researcher, I'm not a sleep scientist, I'm not someone who just comes in and goes, Oh, this is what you've got to do with no reality. I go in there literally as a veteran shift worker and can speak their language. I know what it's like. I I've walked in their shoes, I've felt it. So what I'm doing is I'm actually building a whole capability framework around this. So go in, deliver the keynote so that the whole staff are educated, and then the people in Culture or HR would identify certain people that they want to champion. I will coach those people one-to-one in a whole framework around that. And then those people are then on shift in real time helping their people to build shift work capability from within. Do you reckon productivity would improve? Well, there's research to show categorically that people who are health and well-being, people that are educated within a workplace increases health and well-being in that workplace. Now, the idea here is I I can categorically tell you from my own stats, I've coached almost 40 Victoria Police persons. Almost 40. I can tell you that one on one. One on one. I've coached 40, one to one over the last seven years. Of those people, 30 of them were going to walk away, and I was the last resort. I was the last resort for them to try and help them to optimize their lives around this shift working life. All 40 of them are still working in Vicpol today.

SPEAKER_07 26:37

Wow. Right? All 40 of them. So would Commissioner Bush be aware of some of the this is not just police service, by the way. But in this case, would Commissioner Bush be aware of uh the issues around shift working?

SPEAKER_06 26:51

My question to Mike Bush would be you may be aware of the issues of circadian misalignment. Are you aware or do you have an internal capability in there to support your staff around shift work and will you spend the money to actually do that? And that's the question that I would ask because I did 40 years.

SPEAKER_07 27:10

Would you invest in it?

SPEAKER_06 27:11

Would you invest in it? Well, do you would you see the value in it? Now, people have said to me, Roger, you need to get to the police academy at when the recruits are going through and educate them. And I would argue, no, you don't. Victoria Police have the academy, well, they're putting one in Miljura now, they've got one at Glen Waverley, and Victoria Police don't want me to recruit at the recruit level. They need me to go back after they've been out there for about 18 months at a time when they call it taking charge when they go back for further education. Once they've been exposed to shift work and the impacts of it, and they're going, Oh my god, I don't think I can do this. Because the research will tell a lot of people are actually walking away from shift work once they realise how debilitating shift work is for them. Right? It's really bad for them. But then because they've got no education, you can't handle fly around.

SPEAKER_07 28:02

But you and I have spoken uh on this program in this segment about some amazing people around Australia who might be drivers, who might be nurses, yes, who might be practitioners in a range of fields. It demands that they be available to do the job as a shift worker. Yes. Overnight in particular.

SPEAKER_06 28:22

We can't say no shift workers. You can't take that out of the society. No, you can't you never and You never will. And I don't know whether you realise this, Tony, but one in five people now in society are designated shift workers. One in five, right? Over 20% of society. Now, if you look at the US, you know, because when you do that Amazon order, you want it like I put an Amazon order in at 7.30 the other morning and it was delivered at 1.30 in the afternoon. That is unbelievable how quickly that happens. Now, when you do that overnight, I don't know whether people notice, but Amazon started delivering at four in the morning. They're shift workers that are delivering, right? We need to get the education to them as to how to go about doing this optimally because people are flying blind. They have no idea how to go about it, and they're learning bad habits from other people. Now, we can have researchers. People won't read research. They want they that shift workers are pragmatic, and what they want is they want information as I realize it's a problem, how do I fix this? And that's where I come in and say, this is what you do. Do this, and this will get you feeling better. Now, majority of my clients within eight weeks are feeling so much better, so much better with simple habits and strategies around shift work that make such a big difference to them. And it's not hard. And what happens is we've got people trying to educate on shift work within these organizations that really don't have the know-how of how to go about doing it or don't have the experience of having done it. Now, with someone like Victoria Plus, I know the organisation. I worked in it for 40 years. Of course. I I can educate, I can stand there, I can talk to them as a cop, and I can help them with it, and that's what we need.

SPEAKER_07 30:06

Uh, supporting those organizations, uh, do you feel that you would get or have got support of the organizations themselves, not just those that work in it?

SPEAKER_06 30:14

Well, because they've got to see the value in it. Yeah. They've got to see the value in it. This is new. But, teammate, this is very new. Ryan, you haven't heard shift work champions before. No.

SPEAKER_07 30:24

This is new. We love it.

SPEAKER_06 30:25

And that's why I've trademarked it. And I want this to go worldwide. I want to build internal shift work capability in organisations that we just don't have today. Because there's no education, and everyone's screaming at me saying, there is no education around shift work. I don't know how to do it. I don't know when I should sleep, when I should exercise, when should I get movement? How do I get exercise?

SPEAKER_07 30:46

Well, let's ask people now across Australia in the last uh sort of ten minutes that we've got together. We'll be fascinated to find out. Uh, those that do shift work, do they feel, do they believe their organization need to hear about it?

SPEAKER_06 30:59

Supports them. Yeah. Support them. Do the do you feel they support them? Is this something that you think would be beneficial? I know it would be beneficial for nurses. I know it would be beneficial for emergency services. I know in production now, a lot of companies are running 24-7 productions as well. Having some people, people educated. You can't just put a flyer on the wall anymore, Tony. We're we're beyond that. And with the new psychosocial regulations that we have in Victoria now, um, that sit underneath the uh Health and Safety Act, you can't just put a flyer on the wall or send someone to a keynote. You've got to educate them better.

SPEAKER_07 31:33

133693, Rogers here, Roger Sutherland, a healthy shift to come and join us. Uh, for particularly those that do work in Shift Work, whether or not you feel that your team, your members uh of your team andor the uh what do they call them, the higher-ups. Yeah, the leaders, the managers, the would they be would you imagine that they would uh give the support as Roger's talking about? 133693. Look at the calls, we're gonna get through these. Uh you've touched a nerve, I think, with uh people around Australia. Lots of texts as well. Uh with that daylight saving, the sun rises up at 5 a.m. Annoying, yes. If God wanted time, he would have given us all Rolexes. Well, I'm with uh I'm in there. Gary in Adelaide, thank you. Gary, hello.

SPEAKER_03 32:16

Yeah, I reckon that daylight savings, idiot, stupid idea, but typical America, but anyway. Um with the shift work, I did shift work for 20 years, and I found the worst part of it was actually the rotation from one shift to the next following week.

SPEAKER_06 32:30

Yeah, this is one of the biggest problems.

SPEAKER_03 32:34

We did it wrong. We did it nights to afternoons to days, which was completely wrong.

SPEAKER_06 32:39

Yeah, and this is something that I also helped with.

SPEAKER_03 32:51

Everything was broken up because you had like a 60-hour break between shifts.

SPEAKER_06 32:56

I I I I agree, it is a problem, and the nurses are the ones that get slaughtered with this the most.

SPEAKER_07 33:01

Really bad. Uh good on you, Gary. Thank you. We want to race through some of these uh calls, but there's an interesting one note here, Rog, says, Can you divide shift work? I'm a dairy farmer. I start at 4 30 in the morning. Shift worker. Finish at 6 30 with a few hours off during the day. Eddie, shift worker. Shift work. That's a shift worker. 100% it's a shift worker.

SPEAKER_06 33:22

How can he alter well? He can't really. He's still going to be. He's doing the right thing. If he has a few hours off, he should be napping in that time. And I know as a farmer, he's going to go, yeah, good one, Rog. But we've got to look after our biological health.

SPEAKER_07 33:34

Tony and East Gippsland, morning.

SPEAKER_10 33:37

Good morning, guys. How are you going?

SPEAKER_07 33:38

Good. So hello, Rog.

SPEAKER_10 33:40

Hi, Rog. Uh, you you probably will know what I'm talking about here is I'm a long distance heavy haulage truck driver, meaning, you know, I'm more wide and high and a lot of my workers underpermit, which may dictate what times I can travel on the road with a particular load. We also offer it under driver's logs, which can be a mind field, especially when you get into the operating. Yes, which is driving.

Shift Worker Calls And Practical Reality

SPEAKER_10 34:34

Um normally the early mornings you're running into so you can having the extra hours at the end of the day, someone spends and actually complete an oversight job.

SPEAKER_06 34:47

Okay. So there's an advantage in one way. There's an advantage giving extended time for a driver.

SPEAKER_07 34:53

Extended time for a driver.

SPEAKER_06 34:55

How that's on. But in a business sense, how does that work? I'm not 100% how sure how that would work in a business sense because it's hard to pick up in a call like that really quickly and what he's doing. But he's talking about regulations and and also the logbook and how that works. It gives him more leverage to be able to do it.

SPEAKER_07 35:11

Uh sorry we've got to move on. Aaron Gippsland, you wanted to say?

SPEAKER_05 35:15

Yeah, look, I've been at both scale and for the uh o'clock. I used to be a chef, and I've worked from you know 10 o'clock till about 2 o'clock in the afternoon, and then I've worked from you know five o'clock till about 10, 11 o'clock at night. Now I'm a truck driver. I run my home business. I've started 2 a.m. in the morning, and I've been in 3 a.m. uh 3 p.m. in the afternoon, and uh I love these hours. I can I can have time with my family, my kids, and uh and and get enough sleep during the day. I'll get 15-minute laps during the day in the truck, and uh it's a great time.

SPEAKER_06 35:46

Makes a valid point, makes a really valid point. It's about work-life balance, and that's what we need to do because when people are happy at home and they have a good work-life balance, they come to work a lot happier. And this is what we've not got with nurses and police and paramedics at the moment. There's no work-life balance at all, and we need to work more on that. And just by that call, it tells you that once things work in your favor around that, now he's done it himself, but once things work in your favor and you get to live your life outside, you come to work happy. Uh Aaron, good morning.

SPEAKER_07 36:21

Honey, no, all right, we've got to go do this. Sorry, um, I thought we had a caller there. Uh, we'll come back. Roger's here, 133693. What happened to MY 26 on a CRV or HRV with five free services?

SPEAKER_06 36:47

Well, when will it be?

SPEAKER_07 36:57

Uh Ross Dan Ross, it's the breaking show getting underway, and they'll keep you up to date too uh on the game Spain v Argentine and uh this stage uh nothing's happened. Nothing. Uh Roger Sutherland, uh thank you for uh coming in. You are the Carlos Santana of uh Healthy Shift Work.

SPEAKER_06 37:13

Thank you very much. Um if I've said anything tonight that resonates with any leaders that are interested in having a conversation, I'd love to learn more about your 24-7 environment. If you go to a healthyshift.com, um everything's there and you can actually reach out to me through that or even on LinkedIn at Roger Stuberlin. Um I'd I'd really welcome a conversation to help you and see what we can do about supporting your 24 7 environment, stopping the turnover of staff and building a healthier workplace. You do some great works too in a couple of weeks. You bet.

SPEAKER_07 37:47

I'll be back. I'll be back. I'm Tony Mac for all. We know we may never meet again. May our hands only ever be held out in friendship and never in Carlos Santana.