Footy Banter And Zero Beers

SPEAKER_01 1:42

It's a little thing called ahealtyshift.com. Just that a healthy shift all one word. You can have a look at the Instagram as well at underscore healthy at underscore shift. Gotta get a better version of that. All those underscores. Was that the only option? No, no. You went for that. Yeah, and it's become synonymous. Synonymous. If you say it often enough, it becomes synonymous. Person how many bottles of wine in you are, I guess. Thank you. And a and a podcast is doing it all. And he barracks for Hawthorne.

SPEAKER_02 2:18

I do, indeed. And I needed defibrillator, but uh I just said to you off air before we started that the um the hawks they they're giving me heart failure. I think when they were like 46 points up at one stage and next minute it's nine, I was having heart failure, the the fade outs. But it shows true testament to the fact that you can literally dig deep. There's a lot of depth at Hawthorne. Um, and I think they're in a learning, a really solid learning curve. Uh very dangerous team, the Hawks. Number th number three on the ladder. Yeah, it lines us up. We've got a tough month. We've got the demons coming up, we've got the pies coming up, we've got Freo over there coming up. It's uh they're gonna be tested, the Hawks. They're gonna be tested, which is good because you've got to beat the top. To be the best, you've got to beat the best, don't you?

SPEAKER_01 3:03

Uh I'm just trying to think. When does Melbourne uh play Hawks? Holy duly, we're going to go.

SPEAKER_02 3:10

Yes, we've already talked about that. We said we would. You said you'd take me into the MCC and I'd meet you there. You've got your daughters coming over.

SPEAKER_01 3:17

That same weekend I do. Yes. Oh. That's the game we're going to.

SPEAKER_02 3:22

That's correct. Well, you promised. Yeah. No, I can't. I'm I'm I've diarised it. You you invited me to come into the MCC members with you.

SPEAKER_01 3:35

So the next thing is you'd want to come to dinner with us afterwards. That would be the next. That's the most logical thing to do.

SPEAKER_02 3:41

And you would pay. That's not what I said. You invited me. You sure? Yeah. And I'd be sitting there drinking my zero beers anyway, because there's no good amount of alcohol.

Shift Work Or Education Problem

SPEAKER_01 3:53

Oh, is that a is that a few words? That is a fighting word. Thank you very much. Um, let's talk.

SPEAKER_02 3:59

Do you want to talk about shift work? Yeah, I'd love to. I'd love to. Uh we've got an amazing topic coming out of the five o'clock news that I really wanted to uh to talk about. We've touched on it before, but I really want to dig into it today and and get the uh people talking about it. Let's have a listen. I want to talk about mundai itis coming out of the news and if people suffer from mundai itis or whether they believe it's a real thing. I think there's two things in life that people will be very well, there's a number of things that we're divided on, but one is does the full moon have an impact on people? Like, does it do we notice a big difference? I'm I'm telling you now. There's a copy, you'd know that, from the behaviour of people at two o'clock in the morning. The police and nurses, nursing and paramedics will all tell you that there is a you can tell if you're driving to work on night shift and there's a full moon in the sky, your heart sinks. It dies a little. It's just the work, you just know it's going to be a brutal shift. Uh very, very difficult. But what I want to talk about is is shift work the problem? Is is it actually the shift work or is it the lack of education out there on how to go about it? Now I want to hear from people, and we've got people from 6PR in Perth listening with a lot of FIFO or fly in, fly out people, um, and we've also got people in South Australia that are listening. What education did you get around shift work? Have were you taught by your organisation how to go about shift work? Were you what what were you told? Were you just given a flyer and said this is it? Because I believe, well, not believe, I can tell you now, we're way beyond, way beyond today, just packing humans into a 24-7 roster and just going, okay, we've got to fill this roster, just start pushing people into it. We at the enterprise bargaining agreements that companies are negotiating now, the unions need to start pushing back. And there's consult, there's uh people that you can consult with now, really good people that you can consult with, that will literally sit down and look at what you need, look at who you've got, and will talk to the staff, talk to management and come up with a really good plan as to how to optimally roster staff for it. Because they're not doing that. You know, we we've gone from historically they've not done it though, Roger. Historically they don't ever have it.

SPEAKER_01 6:22

But hospitals would never have considered that in the 60s, 70s, and 80s.

SPEAKER_02 6:27

No, no, but hospital rostering is appalling. Um, these swing shifts that the nurses have to do where they finish at 11 o'clock and they've got to be back at seven in the morning, are just so detrimental to their health. So detrimental. Now, in the police, they have a minimum of ten hours between their shift, but even that is still not biologically good for those people. We shouldn't be doing these swing style shifts because what about if you're young, does it is that as bad. It's a lot easier to do, but it doesn't mean it's having less of a biological impact. It doesn't. It you still have the older we get, and you've got to remember, you pay a tax when you do shift work. It's that simple. You're paying a tax, and the tax is your health, and it's compounding the more shift. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 7:15

And yet back in the day when we were studying at uh William Angles, you'd be working at the Hotel Australia, albeit part-time, over a busy weekend. Uh you might start, say, round about four o'clock in the afternoon. Yep. Uh you'd go through until midnight, maybe one, sometimes later in the morning, right? Yes. Uh, then race home, taxi home, which was provided by the business. Yep. Uh but you'd be asked to come back by about seven to do a breakfast uh shift. Yep. But you were twenty-three, or no, sorry, weren't even that really, probably not probably nineteen. Mm-hmm. And so we did that effortlessly because we just knew that it was You were still paying a tax. Physically. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 7:55

Absolutely. Biologically, circadian misalignment. We underestimate the impact that it has being up and at this time of the night. We we really do. Like for me coming in here, moving to the 4 30 slot is a lot better for me biologically than it was going to sleep, getting up, coming in at midnight, doing the midnight to one, then going back to bed. That was that was a severe impact. So me getting up now, because I'll stay up for the rest of the day now, right? So I I I readjust, I'll keep going. I may have a little kindy nap in the afternoon. There's nothing wrong with the nap. No, naps, we need to make nappings our superpower. Well, they do it in other parts of the world.

Designing Safer Rosters Forward Rotation

SPEAKER_01 8:33

Yeah, they do. Say hello to the Christian say hello to Christian. You're at the Melbourne Airport, Christian.

SPEAKER_04 8:39

I'm just on the way there, yeah. Um I worked at Tulsa for 20 years and we did um monitoring. Um Telfra employed Monash University to do a study into shift work. Yes, and they said to get the best benefit out of your staff is to have them on permanent shifts, whether it be permanent night or permanent day.

SPEAKER_02 9:05

Um now, Monash are brilliant, they are superb, and they have a very, very good unit um at Monash University because I communicate with the researchers. In fact, I'm involved with research out of the University of Queensland at the moment, um, and it's fantastic. Um, but just so you know, humans cannot work permanent nights. And um, I've done a podcast with a a very, very well-known researcher who has made it quite clear that we can't adjust to permanent nights as a diurnal human being, so we can't adjust. People can try, and the argument that Christian's raising here for people to do permanent day shift or permanent afternoon shift, rostering now needs to be permanent day and then going into permanent afternoon and then maybe a few nights and then days off. It needs to be what we call a forward rotation instead of going nights, then afternoons, and then days, which is just which has historically been the model. Absolutely it has.

SPEAKER_01 10:06

Including uh for police officers.

SPEAKER_02 10:08

Yeah, and a lot of research puts it uh people down doing twelve-hour shifts, um, and very highly supported twelve-hour shifts doing it, 12-hour day, twelve-hour day, twelve-hour night, twelve-hour night, four days off.

Why Shift Work Hits Women Hard

SPEAKER_01 10:21

Really hard though. Uh uh, it's a great call. You kicked it off beautifully for us, Christian. Thanks, Christian. Um The fo what about uh nurses, female nurses in the day that would be asked to do all kinds of weird shifts, but quite often two or three uh overnights and you know one or two uh daytime shifts. Did they complain?

SPEAKER_02 10:46

Was it Yes? They did And now they are really complaining. And I think what we're losing sight of as well is an area of expertise for me as a shift work coach, because I coach I've coached hundreds and hundreds of people, and majority of them have been female, and I now specialise in shift work for females because the impact biologically on a female is horrendous compared to males. And one of the main reasons is because they've got an infradian rhythm, they've got that 28-day cycle that that fluctuates hormonally within over that 28-day cycle as well, and that has a massive impact because the Inphradian rhythm relies so heavily on a synchronized circadian rhythm, right, which is our 24-hour cycle. Now, we as men can't understand that because we don't have a 28-day cycle or an infradian rhythm. And I don't know, I reckon some do. Oh, yeah. Oh, people would say I do, but yeah, that's my point. That's my point. Oh, I know. But you know, uh one and another thing that's a real problem is as well, is the lack of research in the area for females as well. So the the poor ladies are really struggling with shift work, and as you said, predominantly nurses are females as well, and they're in this environment where they've got this artificial light that's got zero infrared, uh high blue light overnight. They're eating overnight, they're working these swing shifts. There's absolutely no thought put into how a nurse's roster goes. Yeah. And it's they're just and they're you've got to remember, they're sacrificing their own health for the health of other people as well. Anyone working shift work in particular is actually sacrificing their own health for the health of others.

SPEAKER_01 12:26

And that's notwithstanding what we may or may not be eating when working overnight, including that's a whole topic. That's a whole topic, including eating uh a handful of TV snacks.

SPEAKER_02 12:36

Which I saw I did notice, and Joe, I did notice the packet in the bin, the empty packet in the bin. Did you hide it?

SPEAKER_01 12:42

Did you try to hide it, Joe? Yes. You tried to hide it. No, we f we finished that one this morning. When you say we, you mean Who's we? Uh I'm just saying we. Finished that one this morning. I'll stick with we. Okay. You've been lagged. Well, I had I had a a handful during the three o'clock news. When I say a handful, four or five.

Night Shift Eating And Hydration

SPEAKER_02 13:02

Well, we don't understand. And and it's important. It is a whole topic, eating, and I'll bring that in for the next show. Eating on night shift because it is a really important topic. Our body, either whether we're awake or we're gonna say, Oh, you've got to eat almonds, Tony. That's what I'm absolutely gonna say. And fruit. Almonds, fruit, nuts, high protein, liquid, something that's really easy to digest. Aqua. Not yeah, aqua, plenty of aqua. Plenty of aqua. Loads and loads and loads. In fact, it's important that we for those that are on night shift, loads and loads and loads of water. Shift workers need higher levels of hydration, and the reason being is because of that desynchronized circadian rhythm. Again, their digestive tract is really struggling to digest anything in the system. So the water helps to push that through and keep it moving.

SPEAKER_01 13:50

Thank you. Uh, been doing 12-hour shifts seven days a week since 1997, uh, says Mark. 12-hour shift, seven-day fortnight.

SPEAKER_02 13:58

Seven-day fortnight.

SPEAKER_01 13:59

Seven-day fortnight.

SPEAKER_02 13:59

That's incredible. Well done. Um, I wonder what Mark does because twelve-hour shifts are very, very long shift. Melissa does twelve hours.

SPEAKER_01 14:07

Well, it depends on the age group. I mean, you can do it when you're younger. I just wonder whether it becomes uh more problematic as you get older more problematic. Why do you think that is?

SPEAKER_02 14:16

Because we've been paying a tax when we're younger with our circadian missile line.

SPEAKER_01 14:21

You can say that about anything though, Roger. You can say that.

SPEAKER_02 14:24

Because you're getting a little older, and so the body doesn't You will never win the argument with me about circadian disruption and um and and the tax that we're paying on that every single time we work.

SPEAKER_01 14:36

Look at the tax I'm paying. For Australia overnight. Isn't there a great saying, Roger Sutherland? Yes. Uh routine will set you free.

Real Stories Fatigue Loneliness And Unions

SPEAKER_02 14:51

Oh, we we we don't realise the impact that lack of routine has on us in physically and mentally. Routine is everything. It is the absolute For the human condition. For humans or yeah, for the human body, it counts on routine. We've got to remember we have rhythms, ultradian rhythm, which runs every 90 minutes. We have circadian rhythm, which runs every 24 hours. Females have the infradian rhythm, which runs every 28 days. We are very rhythmic and we need to stay in line with it. The rhythm of the city. The rhythm of the city. Great text here from Mike 2. Um, can night shift cause high blood pressure? 100%. It does cause high blood pressure. It causes cardiovascular disease. It is the cause or a cause? A cause. A cause. Does cause. Yeah, absolutely. Circadian misalignment has a massive impact on our health. In foot scrape, Nicholas, good morning.

SPEAKER_03 17:02

Hey boys, how are you going? Well, thank you. I've been driving trucks for 35 years, and every every so every so every couple of years we start earlier. Earlier, earlier, earlier from seven o'clock. We uh now we start at five o'clock and we finish any time. And uh I drive trucks on a wall.

SPEAKER_02 17:21

And how long would you roughly work for, Nick?

SPEAKER_03 17:24

Any expect us to work for anywhere from 10 to 12 hours.

SPEAKER_02 17:29

Right.

SPEAKER_03 17:29

So again, we are just taking a brain record.

SPEAKER_02 17:35

Yeah, it is. And and again, and this highlights the point, because I've got a text here as well in relation to is the roster created to suit the job or the shift worker. And Nick, you would argue they're just satisfying their own needs with no consideration to your health. Agree?

SPEAKER_03 17:51

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 17:51

Yeah, and that's a hundred percent what needs to change.

SPEAKER_03 17:54

And remember, I'm 65. Yes, I'm I'm still doing it. Um and it it's just it just keeps taking a little bit out of here, and uh I won't be able to bloody um retire at this rate.

SPEAKER_01 18:06

No, uh you're just paying your tax every shift, aren't you? So Nicholas, let me ask you this impact on family life after all those years, if any.

SPEAKER_03 18:15

Well, look, I'm divorced, but I've still got uh one one that's 19.

SPEAKER_01 18:20

But uh What a girlfriend that's 19?

SPEAKER_03 18:23

Name my daughter's since she's at Melbourne Uni.

SPEAKER_01 18:26

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 18:27

I've done something pretty good there, but the older one's 46 with kids. But yeah, it's it it gets really, really hard. I'm about to clock on now. And um it it just gets really, really tough. I tell the boys here, all the Yankees that drive, there's about a hundred of us, you know, look to do something else. Don't think this is a great job.

SPEAKER_02 18:46

I agree. Yeah, and the other thing too, Nick, when when your next enterprise bargaining agreement comes up, if there is if you have got a thing, if you work for the company, this needs to be a point that needs to be made to the union. We need to wind this back or have some boundaries in place because this company is eating away at us all the time. Does it come with a uh cost to business though, Roger? It it's still the same amount of staff going into a 24-hour shift. You you know what, it's a work health and safety issue, Tony. Cool. And it it is literally a work health and safety issue, and it's specified in the act that they have to educate people and they have to look at risk. The longer people work, the more risk there is in the workplace. That is just an irrebuttable presumption that people cannot argue against. Uh, and fatigue is the cause of accidents, complaints, and problems in the workplace. Needs to be managed better.

SPEAKER_01 19:43

Uh Jack in Ringwood, say hello to Roger. Roger Sutherland uh here on 3OW.

SPEAKER_00 19:48

Roger, you're a star mate. I I I've got a number of mates that were in the job, and one's still in the job. He's actually now on a holiday in uh South Africa for 12 weeks. But um But no, listen, I I'd like to discuss the three different shift works I did. Uh early days as a printer on night shift. Uh it it nearly killed me, I've got to say. Um my eyes felt like there was sandpaper all the time. Uh I used to take a frying pan into work, everyone else egg sandwiches, I'd be eating steak, and I dropped the 75 kilos. Uh it was just horrendous on the on on concrete floors, high volatiling under that fluorescent lighting. It was very unhealthy for me. I got very ill a number of times. Then I did many years in hotels, um, and uh like 15 gaming rooms, and then I drove trucks as well, and uh and uh yeah, I look if I look back at it, it it's got what I've got, but it's certainly taken its toll. I'll be I'll be honest. It's it's uh it's not it's definitely not healthy, I agree with you 100%. Yeah, and you lose yeah, yeah, and you lose a lot of old friends that you you know you gathered at some points in your life, and then because of that shift work you lose a lot of them.

SPEAKER_02 21:02

It's lonely, isn't it, Jack? Shift work. It's lonely. While you're bonding with the people that you are actually working with, at the end of the day, they are friends by proximity. They are not actual friends.

Secret Service Precision And Airport Monitoring

SPEAKER_01 21:14

Well, there's that. And the uh thank you. It's a great call, Jack. Fantastic. Thank you. Uh and even in the two and a half that I've sat in this chair, that's the it's not the downside, it's the wrong expression. It's one of the outcomes, I suppose, of uh resting during the day. So you really haven't got the time andor inclination to catch up with friends and family, certainly during the week. Give it a real red hot go uh Friday or Saturday, Friday night and Saturday. But during the week it's almost impossible to associate. And then people sort of uh then say, Oh, what time can we ring you?

SPEAKER_02 21:53

Well, so you you won't go to the footy on a Sunday.

SPEAKER_01 21:56

No, because I've got to come in here.

SPEAKER_02 21:58

Oh, I know, but football is on Sunday, and that's your escape, and shift work impacts on that. It does, it impacts on that, because you've got to come in here and do the show, so you've got to prepare for it. Now, I'm not saying you know, right or wrong. I'm just saying that don't underestimate the impact that that has. That when the people that you go to the footy with say, Hey T Mac, I'll see you at the G on Sunday. No.

SPEAKER_01 22:18

No, I can't go. Can't do it, not on a Sunday. Never, never on a Sunday. Too much. Uh it is Australia Overnight. Now, this is Australia Overnight with Tony McMahon. It is Australia Overnight. If you would like to join us, you can do that. 133693. And why would you want to? Well, let me tell you why you would want to. Uh Roger, that's right, Roger Sutherland's here from a healthy shift. We're going to talk about Monday itis. Now, uh, for those that may not know, Roger's become a great friend of this program over the last few years. A couple of years now. Couple of years. Two and a half. Uh Veteran Law Enforcement Officer for a long time. Uh 40 years. Uh now, just before we move on to your topic, uh, I'd be remiss if I didn't ask you on behalf of this audience. What we saw uh drastically yesterday when President Trump was uh taken out of that room so very effectively and quickly. Efficiently, yes. Efficiently. Yes. Uh you've got a marvel at that. Uh the question still will remain how that bloke got in there anyway, uh, that will be under uh boundary investigation. Having said that, it's pretty precise. It's just intimidatingly precise, isn't it? In terms of the way they manage it.

SPEAKER_02 23:36

What about the the the fully kitted up armed SWAT style officers that appeared from nowhere suddenly? Um and and also the well we call them bullet catchers, the bodyguards that literally shielded, stood around him to take the bullets if they had to. That's their training. I I know, but they're humans, you know, and they're standing in front of the president with their body just broad open, like, yeah, they're wearing ballistic vests, right? Uh underneath, they're wearing ballistic vests. But a ballistic vest is just it's just a resistance. It's not a bulletproof vest. And yet one of the officers that did was uh was wearing and and and escaped death. But you've got to remember is it's not like the TV where the bullet just lodges in there and the bloke comes to and gets up and walks off and goes, wow, that hurt. It's significant trauma from a bullet hitting a uh ballistic vest and um significant internal trauma. So he will take a long time to recover from that, but he's alive, and that's what the key point is for the vest. But the precision, you're right, they came in from everyone, everyone knew what to do instantly, straight away. And you asked me off air, would we be able to do that with our prime minister and things like that?

SPEAKER_01 24:54

God forbid.

SPEAKER_02 24:56

I'm I'm Yes, we would. Yeah, they w they would whip the Prime Minister and and dignitaries away very quickly.

SPEAKER_01 25:03

The level of training has been in place fore.

SPEAKER_02 25:07

Oh, there's a lot that goes on. Oh yes. Even when I I remember when the Vice President Dan Quayle came to Australia. Mm-hmm, I can't remember what year it was, but I know I was in my first few years. So it was probably 85, 86, 84, 85, thereabouts. And I remember the the vice president Dan Quayle coming to Melbourne and we had to do security on that. You could not get close to it. They brought all their own um secret service, they brought their own vehicles, they brought everything. All everything was all run. It wasn't just, oh, we'll just use your cars, your people. They took over everything. The police were literally just directing traffic and stopping, but nothing stopped for them.

Mondayitis Explained Through Body Clocks

SPEAKER_01 25:46

In New York, uh Clinton was having a meeting with the Greek Orthodox Church in the Waldorf Astoria in New York. And there were about 30 officers on every corner all around the Waldorf. That you could see. That I could see. That you could see. So then I blindly wandered, thinking I've got to have a squeeze because I was by myself and I've got to have a look at this. So got into the Waldorf, sat there in the lounge. Not one person approached me. Would I be naive in thinking that they didn't know who I was, when I was, and that would be naive.

SPEAKER_02 26:19

Yeah. And you we underestimate too, like at the airport, as you're coming through, because you know, we've got a lot of people coming in through the airport, you've only got to be at Tallamarine at five o'clock, six o'clock, seven o'clock in the morning to see all those international flights coming in and people waiting to come through. It'd be incredibly naive of you to think. A lot of people come through and they think, I just walked through, like it was just so easy. Tap this, tap that, and and I'm all of a sudden standing outside and no one saw. That would be incredibly naive to think that you weren't being monitored as you came through. At some point. Oh, people are standing there watching, they're watching people, they're watching for body language, they're watching for who's with who. They know who's coming. And these are people trained to be able to do that. Absolutely trained to do that. Absolutely they're trained to do that. Um, that sort of thing goes on in the background at the airports and that all the time. So i i if you think that you can be up to no good and come through the airport um with ill intent, you you'd be very surprised. You'll you'll be very surprised at what surprise you might get when you get tapped on the shoulder and taken into a room off the side.

SPEAKER_01 27:21

Uh just to wrap up uh the previous conversation, just before the news, my friend drives fuel tankers midnight, starts three nights, then swaps to midday starts. Two days surely can't be healthy, which is what you're doing.

SPEAKER_02 27:33

Absolutely not. So that's what we call a reverse rotation. Um, starting at midnight, then coming back to middays. That's a reverse a reverse rotation, and it's really bad, really impactful on people's health.

SPEAKER_01 27:45

Uh we're going to talk about mundai itis. Uh, is it a thing? 103693, you would say?

Brutal Hospital Rosters And 12 Hour Shifts

SPEAKER_02 27:50

I I Mundiitis is absolutely a thing. Um, and and there's a very, very good reason. I'd be really I want to hear from people 133693 on this topic, as because it's Monday and people will be on their way to work now and they'll be tuning in and listening in. How do you feel today compared to how you were feeling Thursday and Friday morning last week? Is it a struggle? Was it a struggle to get up this morning? Was it a struggle to wake up? Do you feel out of sorts as you're driving to work? Do you feel like you're desynchronized from what you're actually doing? I really want to hear from people on that one there. That's 133693. Give us a call because you are suffering from circadian misalignment in the morning because you've gone through last week, you've worked last week on your day shifts or whatever, and I'm just talking to the 9-5 population here at the moment. And as you go through and you're working your 9-5 and getting up, Monday and Tuesday are always struggles, but you start to get into sync on Wednesday, Thursday, then Friday. What do you do Friday night? You stay up late and you have a sleep-in on Saturday to I quote, got my quote fingers up, to catch up on sleep. You can't catch up on sleep. I want to make it very clear, you cannot catch up on sleep. So those lie-ins that you're having, or not lie-in, that sleep-in that you're actually having on Saturday and Sunday morning, you are creating further biological chaos in your body. So therefore, you're phase shifting that clock, that internal clock. When you get to Monday morning and your alarm goes off, it's such a shock because you're in the middle of a sleep cycle because you have already phase shifted, and that's how quickly it happens. So, how do we combat this? Because when we travel and we go overseas, what do we do? When we go overseas, like you jump on a plane, you travel across time zones. Well, no, what you do is in the new time zone, you don't want to miss anything. You're up early, you're down at the breakfast bar, you're having your coffee, you're out in the daylight, you're moving around all day. And what you're doing is you're telling your body clock, this is the new time, this is where you need to be. And the body clock goes, Okay, now I know. So you're having breakfast, you're having lunch, you're having dinner, you're up, you're out, you're working. Now, everyone suffers from jet lab when they come home. Why do we suffer from jet lab when we come home? What do we do? We sleep in to catch up, we flop onto the couch and watch TV.

SPEAKER_01 30:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:13

We don't go out, we don't eat at normal regular times, and then all our body is doing is responding to the signals that we're pushing into it. And the problem with that is well, you're pushing it out, but you're you're telling it you want to do what it's what we call social jet lag.

SPEAKER_01 30:27

Uh Paul, good morning on the peninsula. Good morning, uh fellas. How are you? I'm good. Uh Roger Sutherland's here. Um Tony McManus. Go ahead.

SPEAKER_05 30:37

Uh yeah, I work a rotating shift on the size Monday. I just I just finished doing um a rotating roster night shift Saturday morning from 12 hour shift Friday night. Yep. And now I'm starting a 12-hour shift for two weeks. Day shift.

SPEAKER_02 30:55

Oh, what? So you finished night shift, you worked night shift Friday night and finished six o'clock Saturday morning. And now you're on your way to work to start a day shift on Monday. 12 hour shift Monday, yeah. How many nights did you do, uh Paul?

SPEAKER_05 31:10

Um we did like last week I did Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, 12 hour shifts. That is disgraceful. You've had one clear day off. Yeah, pretty much I've been doing it for 20 years now at a hospital in Barrie. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:26

That that I I've got to say, I'm sorry, but Paul, that is that is appalling rostering. Working three or four nights and phase shifting you, giving you one day off and then lining you up for how many day shifts?

SPEAKER_05 31:37

Uh this week I do 12 hour shifts today, Monday, Tuesday, and then Wednesday, Thursday, Friday off, then we're except a Sunday.

SPEAKER_01 31:46

Paul Paul, do you feel do you feel if that's debilitating to you?

SPEAKER_05 31:51

Oh, yeah, it takes the toll. I mean, it's yeah, it's you sort of got a really real strong mindset thing. I mean let alone your body taking its toll.

SPEAKER_02 32:01

Without knowing without us knowing what Paul does, right? Now he works in a hospital, but we don't know what he actually does. You've got to remember Paul is a healthcare worker.

SPEAKER_01 32:09

He's a surgeon.

SPEAKER_02 32:10

I don't know. No, but he's a healthcare worker. Yeah. Okay. What about that? Let's just say, let's just put the picture in place and say Paul is a surgeon. Would they do that to a surgeon? Would they tell a surgeon that he's got to work four nights of night shift and then would he do that and then come in because if he's opening up your head and operating on your brain like that, you're not going to be very comfortable with that, are you? And yet we're expecting our poor nurses and and and and um lower level doctors, ED doctors, and things like that that are doing these shifts, sacrificing their own health. That is appalling, Paul. My heart goes out to you. It's really terrible rostering. Terrible.

SPEAKER_01 32:46

Uh good on you, Paul. Great caller. Wish you well have a better day. Uh, but I mean, are there any options for people like Paul? We might look at that the other side of this on Australia Overnight. Turn the microphone on. If you have just joined us for the first time, uh Roger Sutherland, uh, we catch up with Roger every couple of weeks as part of Australia Overnight. Uh Roger specialises in shift workers and working with shift workers and has done for uh some time now. And the idea of uh mundai itis, I was always a bit like the person who says, Oh, I've got terrible mundai itis, I feel really bad. Yeah. Uh or were were they just being negative?

SPEAKER_02 33:23

But you say it is a thing. Oh, it is absolutely a thing, yeah. And I I think for parents will really understand this more than anybody else. And I use this example all the time for people, and that is when you've got teenage children, how hard are they to get to school on Monday morning and Tuesday morning? They are nigh on impossible to get out of bed and to get organised. They're walking around like zombies, they can't think, you're yelling and screaming.

SPEAKER_01 33:47

They're teenagers usually.

SPEAKER_02 33:49

Yes, they're teenagers, but by Wednesday and Thursday and Friday, they're still I mean we're still yelling at them, we're still trying to get them organized, but they're a lot better at getting up and getting going. And then what do we do Friday night? Oh, you don't have school tomorrow, you can stay up, you know, you can stay up late. So they're sitting in their room playing computer games until midnight, can't sleep, and then the sleeping in the next day until midday or one, and we've all been there because we've all done that, had the big sleep in. And then Sunday, Saturday night, they're up late because they're playing their video games with their friends and they're up doing that. And then Sunday, they sleep in until lunchtime. What they've actually done is phase shifted their circadian clock, their biological clock, which is unavoidable, but they've phase shifted it to the stage where when the clock, when the alarm goes off on Monday morning, they've got to get up, they're waking themselves up either mid-cycle or in between cycles, and that's why they're so desynchronized from society.

SPEAKER_01 34:46

From what they're saying. Yeah, one double three, six nine three. Do we mention this one? Uh my friend drives fuel tankers midnight, starts for three nights, and swaps to midday, starts for two days.

SPEAKER_02 34:55

Reverse, reverse um rotation is is shocking. Um, yeah, it's it's really, really bad, and and and it causes all sorts of problems for people. Um, I would like family well, it is this is the thing that shift work has a massive impact.

SPEAKER_01 35:11

Uh Nicholas is in foot scray. Uh Nicholas, Roger, Roger, Nicholas, another Nicholas.

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SPEAKER_03 35:17

Hey, but no, it was me before you came out. Oh, yeah, sorry. I've been listening to you for years, son. Listen, I've been driving trucks for 35 years. 85 I started at the brewery. At the brewery. Now we had a really hard job at the brewery, but we used to do it, and we we had a great time doing it. But in 91, this is what this is where we all covered. In 91, we all got to sack at the brewery. And that was the beginning of the end. There was no unions after that, and they chased the unions down, and now we haven't got no unions. Oh.

SPEAKER_02 35:57

So there's no one to fight for you.

SPEAKER_03 35:59

Well, boys, I don't know, we use a s we use a talk, you're use it talking really well, but you've you've got to get to the crux of the matter, and it's at the with the unions. Well, it's a very good, it's a very good thing. I totally agree.

SPEAKER_02 36:10

But this is what I'm saying, and this is exactly my point, Nick. That's what I'm saying is people, staff need to be addressing this with their union or their association or whatever. The businesses are not looking at it, right? But what happened businesses are not going to look at it until the staff start pinning them.

SPEAKER_01 36:30

But that's my point, though, Rog. Surely businesses have got to be looking at it if they're not then being negligent because the success of their business could be impacted by this.

SPEAKER_02 36:39

No, I don't well well yeah, I know, but they've got a duty of care to their staff under the act. Hang on. It's the law. It's not just uh it'd be nice to have and we're running a business. It's actually the law that they have to. Lower risk.

SPEAKER_01 36:52

Uh we've got to do this. Sorry, this half hour just flies past. Uh so forgive, it goes too quickly. Uh 133693, uh, we'll look at the traffic. Uh Roger, we'll stay here for another couple of minutes if you have anything you'd like to add to the programme. Uh 133693 next. Oh, we love them. We love them. If you would like to know more about what Roger does and uh with whom he does it, a healthyshift.com.

SPEAKER_02 37:20

A healthyshift.com. Now I've got an announcement today. Oh, an announcement. I'm really excited to announce that I'm offering a lot of people don't want the commitment of 12 weeks coaching.

SPEAKER_01 37:29

No.

SPEAKER_02 37:29

But I'm offering one off one hour sessions for people. If you've got questions around your shift work, we can address those questions in a one-hour session. Um, I think it's a really good option for people that just want, you know, not everyone wants that whole lot. So one hour sessions, if you go to the website, a healthy shift.com and you can reach out to me there. I'm happy to help anybody with that.

SPEAKER_01 37:50

So it's uh a underscore healthy underscore shift. That's the Instagram. It's a healthy shift.com on the website. I beg your pardon, sorry,althyshift.com. Uh thanks, mate. Thank you for coming in. Thank you very much for a couple of weeks' time, okay. Uh we love Mondays. I'm Tony Mack. Uh, for all we know, we may never meet again. Ross and Rust next. Have a fantastic Monday.