SPEAKER_02: 1:35

These parts of us are like our internal bodyguards that again are trying to protect us from feeling something, and they generally rather come in way too strong, where they're giving us 10 bodyguards when we might need one.

SPEAKER_00: 1:52

Shift work can be brutal, but it doesn't have to be. Welcome to a healthy shift. My name is Roger Sutherland, certified nutritionist, veteran law enforcement officer, and 24-7 shift worker for almost four decades. Through this podcast, I aim to educate shift workers using evidence-based methods to not only survive the rigors of shift work, but thrive. My goal is to empower shift workers to improve their health and well-being so they have more energy to do the things they love. Enjoy today's show. Today I am joined by Leah Marone, a psychotherapist, a corporate wellness consultant, and a former Division I athlete who has spent years helping high performance to manage stress, boundaries, and burnout. Now we're going to unpack some really important topics today, like how to manage that inner critic. And this is something we all need to know about. The pleaser, the rescuer, because let's face it, we all feel like we need to rescue everyone these days. And how to use those micro resets during your shifts and in life to regulate your nervous system and how to spot the early warning signs of fatigue before they turn into burnout or compassion fatigue. Now, whether you're driving to work today, winding down after a night shift, or you're grabbing a coffee between calls, you will absolutely get a lot out of this one. So sit down, buckle up. Leah, it is great to have you on the podcast. Welcome.

SPEAKER_02: 3:24

Thank you so much for having me. I'm looking forward to our conversation.

SPEAKER_00: 3:27

I am too. And I'm really pleased that we've connected about this. So before we jump into the topic today, can you tell us a bit about your background and the work that you are currently doing to support people in high stress roles like healthcare and emergency services?

SPEAKER_02: 3:43

Sure, absolutely. So I have a private practice, and a lot of the patients I see individually for therapy are in the healthcare sector, are in fields that require a lot of empathy and compassion and quick acting decisions. So that is a lot of first responders, that is a lot of people where they, you know, can access grit and resilience like that. And so that has led me to not only, you know, work with people therapeutically on an individual level, but also provide wellness workshops and support to nonprofit organizations and teams and corporations on just integrating mental health within the culture of their team and their organization.

SPEAKER_00: 4:22

Oh, that's absolutely fantastic. Now, to those listening, you've clearly got an American accent. Whereabouts are you located in the US?

SPEAKER_02: 4:29

Yes, I am located in Charlotte, North Carolina on the East Coast.

SPEAKER_00: 4:33

God's country. That's what you would say, wouldn't you? It's absolutely beautiful there. And I mean absolutely beautiful. Very jealous. Leah, you've worked with leaders and teams around the world. So what patterns do you often see in our first responders when it comes to things like this stress and burnout and perfectionism?

SPEAKER_02: 4:50

Yes. I mean, I see a lot of just, you know, work hard, play hard, like kind of going in, going all in, which we need to do, especially in roles such as the listeners, you know, occupy. But there's almost these emotional hangovers. There's this internal balloon, if you will, that constantly gets filled up to the brim and pops. And so it's kind of cycling in and out of go, go, go, go, go, and then you crash and burn. And then you go, go, go, go, go, and you crash and burn. So I'm really seeing this cyclical burnout and overextension when it comes to people that are high achievers, that are performing at a high level and that are constantly serving others and creating space.

SPEAKER_00: 5:30

I'm going to speak from experience from my own perspective. I've done 40 years on the front line myself, and I know that from my learnings since this and getting to today, that I didn't realize that we don't close those loops, do we? We just continually take it on, take it on, take it on. And there's a very famous book around this The Body Keeps the Score. It literally does, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_02: 5:54

Absolutely. And I've really noticed, and myself included in this, you know, there's that fierce inner critic component where there's this internal chatter constantly with that critic within you telling you, you know, if you don't do XYZ, if you don't keep going, if you don't push yourself, then you're not being the best you can be. Then you're not being that, you know, A plus professional, then you're not being that A plus parent. Then you're not being this. And so there's this constant push to keep going and going because otherwise we're going to hear it from our critic. And so it's a lot of times these internal conflicts of logically, I know that I need to rest and recover and maybe set some boundaries. But when I try to execute that, there's this other part of me that swings into action and makes me feel guilty, makes me feel weak, makes me feel like if I do take a break or I say no to something or I don't give it my all every second of the day, then I'm not worthy. I'm not good enough.

SPEAKER_00: 6:49

Leah, I have clients that are shift-working mothers. And I think they are the biggest victims of this situation that you just literally spoke about now. They find they just don't have any time for themselves. Now, what you've said that they feel like they need to be up and about and going all the time to be the best version of themselves, but it's doing that that is actually making them not the best version of themselves, isn't it? And it's very difficult to get people to actually see that. I'll go to like a mum that's working in nursing, doing double shifts and quick shifts and keeping up and about and doing school book week and trying to get them ready for Halloween and trying to do absolutely everything that goes on. And they're trying to be the best version of themselves. They know inside that they're failing, but they keep on doing it. How can they check in with themselves and put a strategy in place to start off with that goes, okay, we need to sit for five minutes?

SPEAKER_02: 7:50

Absolutely. I think there's two different things I'd love to share on that. The first thing is like really recognizing how you are showing up to interactions with people, or if you are just taking the bait. And what I mean by that is if you know your kid sighs or your child is like, oh, just shows any type of distress. We immediately take that bait because we have the strong association that my kid is experiencing something uncomfortable. And if I am not immediately able to soothe and fix and solve it, then I'm probably not doing my job and I'm not a good mother. And so we take these moments where someone may ask us a question, someone may share distress or something uncomfortable, and we immediately jump into fixing and solving and being five steps ahead rather than meeting the person and the situation and the emotion where it is. And so you'll find that people with high levels of grit, of go-getter, you know, high emotional intelligence, they're putting themselves in situations where they're trying to fix and solve to eliminate some distress and discomfort within them. If my child is soothed, if my child has what they need, if my child is fine, then I have a chance to be fine. And so you can see where we're constantly trying to be two steps ahead of everything in order to chase this fabricated recovery and break. But then when it might come, we feel that too because we're bombarded with wait, you're gonna relax. There's so much other things to do. You can't relax. And so that's kind of the first framework that I'm sure we'll delve into. But the other one, more tangibly, is every crack and crevice of the day, every transition, which we all have dozens, whether we're walking into another room, we're, you know, moving from home to work, we are, you know, moving from role to role, we are conditioning ourselves to constantly fill those moments of transition with something our brain kind of deems as productive. We're on our phone, we're checking news updates, we're checking our email, we're doing this. And even when we're just walking to get the mail or going, you know, into the grocery store, we're cluttering this with consumption. And if we would just take a minute to think about these natural transitions as micro resets and times that we can take a breath, times that we can access our senses, and times that we can just be one with our environment, it really starts to clear proactively our internal clutter and help immensely with getting in shape with being present.

SPEAKER_00: 10:19

You are speaking by language here. I love this because I never considered them as transitions. And they are every time we go to do something, we are transitioning, but we're not giving ourselves a chance to transition into what we're actually doing. And we are distracted by thinking about other things while we're trying to do the thing, aren't we? We're doing this all the time. We're in the supermarket, but we're thinking about what little Johnny's doing, or we're with little Johnny and we're thinking about what to cook for dinner, or we're not actually giving ourselves a chance to check in with ourselves and go, right, here I am. This is what I'm doing, this is what I'm focusing on, because we live in a very busy society today, but we've created this ourselves. I've got no doubt, and our phones do this, I'm sure of it. Many frontline workers have that like an always-on mindset. I know I experience myself, and I see this in nursing, I see it in frontline health, and also in our first responders. Now, they keep on pushing through, and we spoke about the mums. They take care of everyone else's needs. Nurses are taking care of patients' needs, police are doing their jobs, et cetera, but they're ignoring what they need themselves. Now, can you explain what it is that's really happening under the hood here?

SPEAKER_02: 11:36

Absolutely. And you nailed it. I mean, it's like when you're kind of in that line of work and you're constantly looking at external things and sometimes emergency situations and urgent things to structure you and provide you with a role to kick you into that problem-solving, you know, role, which you need to execute. That, to your point, is incredibly hard to turn off. And you can see where that part of us, when we are executing externally and we are five steps ahead, we can very quickly assess this is what needs to happen. We are fulfilling almost this sense of purpose, which rightfully so, but fulfilling this sense of purpose where it justifies kind of omitting and not really going inside to do the internal work because we're so busy and we're checking the boxes and we're seeing all the productivity externally. And so when it is time to look internally, or we're hearing the bells and whistles from our body and our mind, sometimes we're just in this cycle where it's like I'm feeling the tightness of my chest, I'm feeling the exhaustion, but I don't know how to go in there. It's too overwhelming. So I'm gonna find something externally to fixate on that will give me a role out here that I can feel purposeful, connection, and still it's gonna kind of give me that numbing band-aid effect.

SPEAKER_00: 12:56

Absolutely fantastic. I've got a classic example of this. As a police man of 40 years, my role at work is see problem, solve problem, do it very quickly. So when I would get home and my partner would say to me, This is an issue, I'd go, see problem, solve problem, move on. But that's not what she wanted. She just wanted an ear, and this creates conflict, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_02: 13:21

Yes, it does. And it's so hard to switch that off. And, you know, I think when you are, you're dealing with kind of your partner, your children, you know, kind of you're outside of that professional role. That's why I think capitalizing on those transitions and really practicing and getting your reps in with getting in shape on that level and, you know, kind of debriefing yourself, validating the efforts, the work that you did, you know, debriefing with a colleague if you need to, because something was incredibly intense. You know, we're not honoring that so that we can go into these other roles that require different skill sets sometimes, you know, with a little bit of a more end of an empty tank, right? Or a fuller tank.

SPEAKER_00: 15:20

Now, you know, Leah, and you're gonna relate to this. See, men and women are so different this way. Like when a man and a woman goes to bed, right, at the end of the day, the man is gonna roll over and go to sleep. End of story. The woman, that's where she's gonna have the committee meetings and wants to have the discussions about now, Johnny's doing this at school, Sarah's doing this, and this is what's happening. He's not interested at that stage. Or he will say, Here's the problem, here's the solution, good night, I'm off to sleep. It's so common, but we can't do that because that's not our role. And this is where we're not transitioning from the working Rodge to the home husband, partner, father Raj. Now, you talk about the inner critic, the pleaser, the rescuer. This is very common threads right through what you do. And I think this is really important for us to unpack this because knowledge is power and learning about what these voices are and how to deal with them is part of the battle. How is it these voices will show up in first responders or our health professionals?

SPEAKER_02: 16:23

Right. And they're very powerful. You know, there's different parts of us that are really motivated by different things and trying to protect us from different things. So if you think about your inner critic, like that, you know, stereotypically, and I know for me as well, like it's protecting me from stagnation. It's protecting me from being judged negatively, it's protecting me from not doing my best, it's protecting me from negative judgment and scrutiny from others. And so that part of me, I think I was taught, unfortunately, at a young age, and even as an athlete, when that critic was incredibly loud, I hear things like Leah, just ignore it. Leah, just don't worry about it. You know, Leah, just kind of distract yourself and get into that a better mindset. And I couldn't bring myself to do it when it was time to execute. And I thought something was wrong with me, and it was excruciatingly painful and anxiety-driven. And I just thought something was wrong. And I've learned that these parts of us are like our internal bodyguards that again are trying to protect us from feeling something, and they generally rather come in way too strong, where they're giving us 10 bodyguards when we might need one. And so, really, it's this whole reframe of not hating these parts, not trying to get rid of them, not trying to silence them. It's actually acknowledging and showing appreciation that these parts of us are working very hard for probably a good reason from something in our past. And our job is to align and soothe them and start to do these little experiments where we're playing with boundaries, we're trying to do different things so they start to trust us and start to calm down. And that's where you'll see anxiety go down, that's where you'll see more of a balance and like the recalibration work that we try to do actually become successful.

SPEAKER_00: 18:10

Fantastic. Now, is an example of this the person that knows that they should be doing something, but they can't bring themselves to do it. That's your inner critic. And they start bullying themselves, as in, oh, you're hopeless, oh, you're no good, what are you doing this for? You know you should be doing this, but you're not doing that. And then they give up. So that is your inner critic, isn't it? And this is where we need to not fight against it and criticize ourselves. I always talk to clients like this, Leah, about nobody likes a bully. If someone stood in front of you and spoke to you the way you speak to yourself, you would slap them down so many times. You would never allow a girlfriend or a friend to talk to you the way you speak to yourself. And you think it's okay to do it to yourself, but it hurts when somebody else does it. So you are hurting yourself by doing it as well. And I think, am I correct in saying what you're saying is acknowledging this, recognizing this, and going with it instead of fighting against it and being critical of yourself. Is that what you're saying?

SPEAKER_02: 19:13

It is. And it takes a lot of practice and repetitions to get this part to trust you and get on board. You know, if you kind of take the example of, and I know many of your listeners probably have their physical routines well intact, but let's say that, you know, Sunday, you think, you know what, enough is enough. This week, I'm gonna get up early in the morning before work and I'm gonna work out. Enough is enough. I'm in my 40s. How can I have not had this together yet? And you have this grand plan almost filled with some rigidity. Your workout plan, I'm not gonna eat this, I'm gonna do this. Okay, here we go. I'm all on board. And then your alarm goes off early in the morning on Monday. And another part of you that's motivated and trying to protect something totally different, like your peace, your warmth, the fact that, like, well, we didn't sleep really well. We know we get cranky, and really is a morning workout gonna do much of anything. We might as well just start another day or not do it at all. And that right there, you know, you decide to turn off the alarm and skip the workout, and your critic's gonna be on you later in the day. What the heck? We had a great plan. Why didn't you execute? And this is a great example of kind of these different parts of us that surface and create these internal conflicts. And I think our job is to acknowledge what each of these conflicting parts of us are trying to protect, are motivated by. And it's not a matter of like swinging from one to the other. It's a matter of kind of being your own mediator between these parts. Maybe I'm not gonna be rigid and work out every single morning early, but I also know I'm gonna hear it from my critic if I don't do something. So maybe I'm gonna compromise. And there's gonna be a few days a week that I do get up and I'm gonna soothe that part of me and the critical part of me, but I'm also gonna acknowledge that some mornings I would like to stay in bed a little longer because I'm working my ass off.

SPEAKER_00: 20:50

Yeah, I've had a busy three or four shifts and I'm exhausted and I need to rest. I get that. Right. I mean, discipline comes before the action that we do. So, what are some practical ways that we can recognize when these internal voices are starting to run the show? Like this critic, as you said, the example that you gave, you've said that basically we've got to negotiate with it as well. How do we get to the stage where we're actually calling ourselves out on our own BS?

SPEAKER_02: 21:17

Right. I think when we find ourselves in this very negative self-talk thought loop, when we also find that ourselves very stuck in the past, ruminating and trying to gain closure with things and fill in the gaps of maybe something that we necessarily can't, or we're way in the future and our critic is feeding us, you know, again, these anxious, very over-dramatic scenarios so that we can be prepared for everything under the sun. And those are really good indicators because, again, Roger, it's pulling us away from the present. It's leading us to be fixated on the what-ifs of the future, and it's protecting us again, overdoing it from all these things we are so desperately trying not to feel. And the same thing through the past. So that's a huge indicator. And you brought up a great point about if you're at the grocery store, if you're with your kid, but you are somewhere else. You're already planning and thinking about three days from now, you know, even three hours from now, you know, some of that is necessary as you're multitasking different roles and going from one thing to the next. But when you're consistently missing out and, you know, not collecting data and combining and connecting with people, that too is a big indicator that your protective parts have too much internal real estate.

SPEAKER_00: 22:30

I think a classic example of how to recognize that this is going on is not remembering where you were and why you were there and what you were doing. And when you go into the supermarket and then you get back out into your car and you think, I went in to get tomatoes and I didn't get the tomatoes. Right? I got everything else, but I didn't get the tomatoes. This is a classic example of you not being present, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02: 22:54

Absolutely. And you know, again, it's not that you're gonna nail it every time. And if that happens to you on occasion, it's okay. But if this is something that's a constant pattern, it's a really good data point to make note of, not judge, but make note of, and then again, make some adjustments and think about how I can use that data to experiment with myself and take different steps to see how I then respond.

SPEAKER_00: 23:19

So, how can you quiten it, Dan? Like you're in the shop, you're wandering around, and you're one of those people that can check in with yourself and your phone's going off, and you know, someone's calling or someone's text, and you're starting to think about that. How do we quiten the voice? What do we do?

SPEAKER_02: 23:33

Yeah, because it is. I mean, every puff of air is filling up our internal balloon, and then one last thing is gonna make us blow. And so I do, I think, practicing, you know, kind of being your own commentator, where you're just like almost either verbally or in your mind, just calling out like what you're doing step by step. I'm at the grocery, here's my list. I'm gonna put my phone on silence so that I can prevent some interruptions. If I constantly am bombarded with a certain to-do or a certain thought that is not really relates to where I am, I'm gonna just take a real quick note, write it down on my piece of paper or my note, my grocery list to validate it, but set a boundary that not here, not now. And so it's these little tricks again to as you transition to things, notice all the things in front of you that might be a potential interruption or distraction, pulling you away from what you really want to be focused on, the task that you want to execute from start to finish. I think also just tapping into your senses, right? I mean, this is something I do with athletes all the time. And it's been such a long-term coping technique that I mean it's been around forever, but it works when you start to feel overwhelmed or in futuristic thinking and you're just not present with anything that you're doing. Start to go through your senses. What do I see? Maybe even naming the colors of the rainbow. What's something red? What's something orange? What do I smell? How does my body feel? Is it cold in here? You know, what do I hear? And just thinking through and sensorily grabbing that data moves you into a different part of your brain and gives you that micro reset to be where you are.

SPEAKER_00: 25:10

Now, I learned this. We had a discussion before we started this from my psychotherapist. Name five things you can see, name four things you can hear, because it brings you back into the present. Now, where my finger's pointing there, that is a coin, which is a PTSD coin right there. And that coin on the back of the coin, it has what can you see? What can you hear? What can you see? When you start to get that anxiety attack and you start to feel that overwhelmed by literally that tactile feel of what can you see, what can you hear? It really does bring you back to where you are. And I think using the example of in the supermarket with little Johnny and you've finished your shift and your brain's going a million miles an hour and you walk into the supermarket, name five things you can see. What are four things that you can hear? What are three things that you can smell? You know what I mean? Like as you're walking through, because it brings you back to where you are. And I think the putting the phone on silent for the 15 minutes that you're going to be in the supermarket, because you can do this, you're a shift worker, you can get in and out in 15 minutes, get in and out. You're not missing anything in 15 minutes. You can take it off, do not disturb, when you get out back into the car. If you've got to have a look at it, then great. If you feel that you're that connected and you need to be that connected, but how many people open their phone, all of a sudden they're scrolling Instagram, they're standing in aisle six in the supermarket, they can't even remember why they're there. It's their own fault, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02: 26:33

Yeah. It's just welcoming those disruptions and those interruptions. And it is, you make such a good point about, you know, that right there is a perfect example of experimenting with yourself when you kind of say, you know what, this time at the grocery store or this time when I'm at a red stoplight, I am going to refrain from pulling out my phone. I'm going to try to just notice what I see. And that part of you that's protective, and maybe the part of you that's critical, like, no, no, no, no, no. You need to make sure you're on top of your email. You need to make sure that you don't miss a text. What if you don't answer something? That's the part of you that you have to soothe and say, we are experimenting with something. We are going to notice how we feel after this and take some note. And generally, you'll notice that you're like, nothing catastrophic happened. I actually feel a little calmer and the world didn't blow up. And enough of those experiences, enough of those repetitions and you sticking with it, that starts to soothe that urgent, critical, over-obsessive part of you.

SPEAKER_00: 27:37

I love this. You're negotiating with yourself. How am I going to feel? I'm going to try this. I'm going to get to the red light. I'm going to stop there. And I'm going to talk to Johnny in the back. I'm going to look in the rear vision mirror and I'm going to say, How are you feeling? And I'm going to have a conversation with him and be present. And then you're present in that car instead of being distracted with who you're on the phone to or whatever. This is great. I hope you're enjoying the show. If you are, please don't forget to rate and review once you've finished. This helps the show's reach enormously. And have you got my free ebook, The Best Way to Eat on Night Shift? Well, this is a comprehensive guide to the overnight fast, why we should fast and how to best go about it. I've even included a few recipes to help you. I've put a link to the ebook in the show notes. And are you really struggling with shift work and feel like you're just crawling from one shift to the next? Well, I've got you. If you would like to work with me, I can coach you to thrive, not just survive, while undertaking the rigours of 24-7 shift work. I also conduct in-house live health and well-being seminars where I will come to your workplace and deliver evidence-based information to help your well-being team to reduce unplanned leave and increase productivity in your workplace. I've put the links in the show notes to everything mentioned. You can find me at healthyshift.com or on Instagram at a underscorehealthy underscore shift. Now let's get back to the show. Let's move on to the next one, which is the person who is the pleaser or the rescuer, right? Someone who's listening who's always felt responsible for everyone else. And I think my mum, not my mum mum, but my shift-working mum that's got children as well is a classic for this. Always feels responsible for everyone else. How do they, in their roles, start setting boundaries for that feeling guilty or selfish? Just this is something that mums really feel.

SPEAKER_02: 29:41

Oh, absolutely. And I've had to work hard at this myself. And you think about it's generally something that pops up and we make this strong association depending on just our childhood and who we were raised by and kind of the culture of our family unit, right? And if we kind of recognize right away if we can be two steps ahead, if we can notice that someone else in our family might need soothe, or if we can do something to calm them down, then we can access calm. And so it's a matter of kind of fixing and soothing and solving out here with the people that were around, so that then we can get some calm. And it is, it's that serial fixing behavior. And it's, you know, I don't want, I can endure, I will adjust, I will accommodate, because if I create a conflict, if I feed a conflict, I'm gonna feel something uncomfortable. So I'll just internalize, I will make do as long as they're happy. And this narrative and these very rigid associations keep us in these patterns of serial fixing, of jumping in to fix and solve and over-accommodate. And really, again, it serves this purpose and connection of like, this is what good moms do. This is what, you know, nice people do. And I don't want to be seen as anything other than kind. And so I'm going to sacrifice my own needs or never even be in touch with them to kind of, you know, have that sense of connection and make sure everyone else has me in their good graces.

SPEAKER_00: 31:07

Leah, I see this with mums. They think they're doing a really good job. And don't get me wrong, they think they're doing a really good job, but they're being judged by their peers as an absolute scatterbrain because they're so busy trying to keep everybody else happy that they are all over the place. They're not present, they don't remember conversations, they don't turn up on time to where they're supposed to be because they are literally completely scatterbrained, and they can't see that that's not turning up as the best version of themselves, which is what they're trying to do, and that's the conflict that they're having themselves. Now, we've spoken about micro resets and how powerful a micro reset can actually be. And I loved even the lights. Let's just try this at a stoplight because it's a 30-second or 40-second cycle. But now that shows that you can make a big change in 30 or 40 seconds that can be a real, oh my God, that made a big difference to me. So now shift workers don't log off for a break because most frontline health get a break when they can. First responders get a break when they can. They don't get this long break where they can have lunch and then go and sit in a room for 15 minutes and do some breathing exercises. So, what are a few examples of some simple resets that they could bring about at home as well as at work? Because work can be up and go, but we need to do it at home as well, because we're making ourselves very busy at home at the same time.

SPEAKER_02: 32:28

Absolutely. And this is going to take some recalibrating, this is going to take some repetitions. But you're right. I mean, the nature of the work, you know, the people listening, like it does. It sounds like you are on and you need to be on, you know, for other people's safety and just the amazing work that you're doing. And so if you're able to kind of have some downtime, which I know is very hard sometimes to access, you can practice these micro resets. You know, you can identify like what I can do to kind of reset and tap in with myself. But if you know, it is something that You're like, that's probably not gonna happen while I'm on the clock. Think about bookending your day and having an AM bookend and a PM bookend while acknowledging that the middle of those two bookends might be a chaotic mess that you can't control much of, right? And you're on in a very high level. And so, but an AM bookend, it's not this elaborate, like time-sucking act. But what it is is it's taking something that you already probably do in the morning, like maybe take a shower or brush your teeth or have your cup of tea. And think about while I'm doing these things to prepare myself for the day. Am I also multitasking? Am I having my cup of tea and packing my lunch and letting the dog out and feeding my kids and doing this and checking my email? I love my cup of tea. What if I just experimented, carved out five minutes to be present and enjoy my cup of tea?

SPEAKER_00: 33:51

You won't actually enjoy it.

SPEAKER_02: 33:53

Yeah. That's right. You may taste it and remember you even had it. And your critic's gonna be yelling at you, oh my gosh, you're gonna be late, you need to do this, no one's gonna have this. But you know that's coming, and that's your job than to soothe and say, We're trying something. This doesn't mean we're doing this for the rest of our days, but we might if this works out. And so having something in the AM and then having something in the PM that you're not multitasking. If you like to watch a show at the end of the night, watch your show. Don't be on your phone as well, and eating and doing this, and you know, all these things because it's canceling out the recovery and relaxation time that you so willingly deserve.

SPEAKER_00: 34:32

Again, a busy mum, even all shift workers, they think they've got the kids, they go home, they deal with the family, everything happens, then they get into bed and then they grab their mobile phone and they start scrolling on their mobile phone to relax. What? Like the mobile phone is not relaxing you. I know you think it's my time, this is me time now, I'm gonna catch up. But what you don't realize is the actual added stresses that that is actually adding. If you were literally to lie in bed and go, that's the end of the day, fantastic. One hand on the navel, one hand on the chest, breathe down into the hand, you'll be asleep within five seconds, and that is your U time. That is the most important U time that you can possibly get. A good, you've informed your autonomic nervous system, everything's safe. We can go to sleep, we're good. I think this is where we make massive mistakes. We see in working places, and I want to talk to leaders and managers at the same time here to create a culture of resetting in their place. How can they encourage this? I've got people that listen to this podcast that are actually stepping into leadership roles. And one of the things that I want to bring with this podcast is I want to educate leaders what to look for in their staff so that they can build a culture of people who are healthy mentally as well as physically in their workplace. How can they encourage a kind of reset culture in their team?

unknown: 35:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 36:00

Oh, such a great question. And I think again, you know, the answer truly is what you're modeling makes a huge impact in the culture of your team. It makes a huge impact because people are watching. They're watching, you know, if everything that you do seems to be interwoven with urgency, whether it's warranted or not. They are seeing if you truly are executing effective listening skills, or if you're jumping in out of frustration and loss of patience and trying to fix and solve and not give your employees and team members the repetitions they need to build inner trust and confidence with what they're doing as a professional. I think too, what leaders are almost hesitant to do this, but we're here, we're better, we're good enough for this now, is where leaders really need to start asking questions like, what lets you know when you're stressed or when you're overloaded, or what can I do as your manager to support that? This is really important because we don't want you to, you know, be on the verge of burnout and cycle in and out of, you know, overextension and cyclical exhaustion. So, what are some things you've learned about yourself that you're alerted that you're stressed or that you're overdoing it? Those types of conversations, again, you're not having many therapy sessions, you're not trying to fix and solve, you're not trying to, you know, go into territory that you're like, well, I don't know how to do that. But it's letting people know that like we want to get ahead of these things. We want you to have the emotional intelligence, we want you to have the self-connection to be able to observe these things and start integrating boundaries that are not going to like be a shield where you're like, well, I can't work today. No, that's not what we're after. We're after accessing more grit and resilience and collaboration. And so these conversations have to happen way out of the gate and not as a reactive component.

SPEAKER_00: 37:43

Yeah, I agree. And in a debrief at the end of a major job, because a lot of places have debriefs now, don't they? It's become a thing, but I don't think they're being used correctly at all. Well done, Johnny. You did a great job. Frank, you did a great job as well. What about at the end of that debrief saying, Johnny, what are you going to do to reset now? What are you going to do when you knock off today? What are you going to do to just calm yourself and do whatever? And making these conversations part of the debrief. And I think this is something that would be a really good initiative for leaders to bring in because it shows compassion for your crew at the same time. It's not, oh, Johnny, I'm worried about you. I think you need to do something. It's not about that. It's, hey, what are we doing to reset who's doing what? Agree with that?

SPEAKER_02: 38:25

Oh, absolutely. And just those debrief moments. And I think kind of actively as a team and encouraging individuals to almost debrief and kind of, you know, write lists and validate their efforts, you know, leave things on the table that they maybe need to tend to the next day. Because that, when we're ahead of that, when we kind of start clearing that clutter as we transition to our home roles and things that, you know, are outside of our professional roles, that's not what is going to visit us when we lay down to go to sleep. And we won't be as you know likely to pull out our phone as a numbing agent because we don't want to think about all the things that we didn't do or that were critical of our day. If we took the time to debrief, if we took the time to say, this isn't done, I need to send this email tomorrow. I need to do X, Y, and Z when I will do this tomorrow when I'm firing all cylinders. We have something to refer to in the evening when that critic is like, Whoa, you didn't do this. Whoa, you better do this, whoa. And you're up spinning.

SPEAKER_00: 39:21

Yeah. And that's why in my journal prompt, because I've got a shift workers journal that I give to clients, the first three questions that ask is what are three problems and three solutions? And the reason why I do that is because they can then just dot point. It doesn't have to be a great big script. It's just a dot point. Because exactly what you have just said, you're going to be critical. I didn't do this today, I didn't do this today. But the thing is, you've written down what the problem is and you've written yourself a solution for tomorrow to address it. Once it's on paper and it's down on the bedside table, your brain lets it go, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_02: 39:52

It does. It does. And it's so interesting because when I'm in those moments, gosh, it's like going on midnight, and I'm like, why can't I sleep? I'm going to be so tired. I have learned to ask myself, Leah, what are you not trusting?

SPEAKER_00: 40:06

Yes.

SPEAKER_02: 40:07

What are you not trusting about your ability? And if you didn't sleep all night, do you think you're just going to crash and burn? No, you're going to not be firing maybe on all cylinders as you like, but you've been able to get through hard stuff before. And so it's really actually asking yourself and those protective parts, like, what am I not trusting about myself? And that gives you a whole new set and filter to kind of work with.

SPEAKER_00: 40:30

Because it's really hard to convince yourself that you don't trust yourself. Isn't it? Well, it is. It's really hard to convince yourself because, and this once again comes down to a mindful practice. And this is another thing that I've learned in my own arsenal, my own toolkit, to check in and be mindful. Why are you like this? Why are you catastrophizing this? You're here today, you are 61 years old, and you've got to this particular point. You've survived every single thing that's been thrown at you. What makes you think you're not going to get through this? And it's so typical that we do. We have these arguments and we catastrophize. It is human nature to catastrophize. But I think just asking yourself, is what I'm telling myself the truth? I think is the key, isn't it? Is this the truth? Like, is it really what is going to happen? And you know it's not. You know it's not. Yeah. Right? So now I'm working in an environment now, and you know, you notice signs of fatigue in people, irritability, emotional detachment. What is one of the first steps that a person can take? Because I know one thing that I've learned with shift workers in so many different areas is they wait until they're absolutely burnt out and at the bottom of the barrel and can't recover before they do something. Where's the first step for us to take to start finding our way out of this?

SPEAKER_02: 41:44

And I really would. I really like that whole analogy of kind of thinking of balloon in your belly and things throughout the day, you know, even minor in isolation, either add air to your balloon or, you know, let air out. If you get a nice smile from a teammate, you're like, ah, little air let out. We had a sense of connection. If you forgot your lunch at home, it's like, oh, there's some air in your balloon. You know, these little things and sometimes big things really are kind of filtrating air in and out of our internal balloon. And it is a matter of really acknowledging when you make an effort to have a pause, to practice a micro reset, to get in that workout, to do something for yourself and you were present with. So I would think about, you know, if that analogy works for you, think about ways that, okay, yeah, I'm definitely walking around with a full balloon. What are some things that I can do to let some air out? And it doesn't have to be this monumental thing, but that can be so helpful in your proactive regulation so that you aren't just leaving your body and mind to its own devices and waiting for that balloon pop.

SPEAKER_00: 43:03

I love the balloon. I'm going to be using this in coaching moving forward. I think it's so fantastic because I'm going to ask clients, where's your balloon at? And what are you doing to let the air out? It's coming in all the time, but what are you doing to let the air out of it? How can teams support each other in noticing and responding to these early cues? Because we're all working around each other rather than waiting until someone actually crashes and burns.

SPEAKER_02: 43:24

Right, right. I think the biggest thing is again, our jobs are not to jump in to fix and solve, our jobs are to support. You know, it's support, don't solve. And I think the best thing you can do is that, you know, you probably know each other well enough. And when you start to see some shifts and maybe some consistent shifts that you're a little nervous about, that you're noticing, that's data that you're collecting with someone that you really you work closely with, that you care about. And it's using those I statements. I've noticed that the past week or so that you've seen lower with energy, that you don't seem as talkative. I've noticed these things. You're sharing the data points you've collected without judgment, without coming in to say, like, you know, so buck up because you're putting a damper on the vibe here. It's just calling these things out and seeing how they respond. And if they're like, Yeah, no, I have. I've been lower on energy. And that's where again it's kind of like, is there anything that you'd like to share? Is there anything I can do to support? And so it's coming with that empathy and compassion and that patience and trying to take that pressure off of you to try to fix and solve and say the right thing. It's sharing with them through those I statements what you're noticing and the shifts and that you care.

SPEAKER_00: 44:34

An I statement. I love this so good because you can't be critical of the person. You send them further away, you cause bigger problems if you're critical of them, or if you make a mockery of it, like you really are a cancer on the team at the moment, you know, like you're flat as attack. What's going on? Like, that's not the way to go about it. Even to the most brutal of people, because once their resilience is gone, which is the reason why they are, they're not going to take it the way they would have taken it 12 months ago, two years ago. So you've got to be a little bit careful of all of this. And the I statement is really good advice. I've noticed this, or I see you sitting away from other people all the time. Are you okay? What's going on? And then to go the next step with that as well. I think when you ask a person, I've noticed, and they go, I'm fine. I think the next step personally, and I just commented on a post in relation to this, I think the next step is to actually show your own vulnerability and show that you know that you've had these moments where you're really struggling yourself and you've not been able to get up. And how do they feel about that? If they notice that in themselves, and sometimes that vulnerability in yourself can actually open people right up, which is what my own journey, particularly over the last 10 years, has really taught me. So, and this is how we can support each other. And my next question was how can teams support each other in noticing and responding to these LEQs rather than waiting until someone crashes? And I think having these conversations, I honestly believe that this comes from leadership. And I think leaders standing there and showing their own vulnerability and saying, okay, what are we doing to reset? Or even now you might think this is happy clapper and woo-hoo, but I can tell you now it works. At the end of a session, right, everyone stand there, hand on your stomach, breathe in for four.

SPEAKER_01: 46:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 46:16

You know what I mean? Like everyone's gonna go, what? But once they walk away, they're gonna go, God, I feel so good. And that took two minutes.

unknown: 46:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 46:22

You know?

SPEAKER_02: 46:23

That's a great thing, and it's unity, and everyone's doing it together, and you do, you feel that really. No one's unique.

SPEAKER_00: 46:28

It's not like everyone sitting watching someone in the watch commander's glass bowl, standing there doing breath work and thinking, oh, Johnny's suffering, you know. Everyone's doing it together, and the boss can stand there and look around and go, get on with it. You're not doing it, do this, and brings everyone in. I think it would really help. Yeah. Now you've said resilience is not about toughness, Leah. I agree with that. I don't think resilience is, bro. It's about recovery and what strategies you can put in place and how you can recover. What does real resilience look like for someone in a 24-7 role today? It's hectic today.

SPEAKER_02: 47:02

Oh my gosh. I mean, it is that ability to access that grit and that focus and push through and stay in the role that you're in and execute. I mean, that is resilient as hell. But it's also that ability to acknowledge like I worked really hard, I was firing again on all cylinders, I'm physically, emotionally, mentally drained, and that's not a weakness. And now my job is to replenish so that I can do that all again. Yep. It's like, you know, if you have an intense workout and you're sore the next day, that feels good in a way. You know, you worked hard, your muscles need to repair a bit, and you need to do things in order to get them back to a place where you can maybe lift that heavy in two or three days. And so it's kind of that same thing when you think about your mental health as well. And it really, truly is. I mean, the most resilient people that I know are the most self-aware, and they're able to, you know, kind of break through some of those very rigid associations we have with I'm weak or I'm selfish, or I, you know, am not doing other people justice if I pause and do something to replenish and recover for me.

SPEAKER_00: 48:09

Yeah, so important. And again, it comes back to that mindful practice, doesn't it? It's just being mindful, having the knowledge that it's okay to do this and actually do it. Checking in with yourself all the time. I do this around nutrition with hunger. Just ask yourself, am I actually hungry? Am I actually hungry? Because that can stop a lot of people from just snacking mindlessly as well. Is there anything that we haven't covered that you would like to speak about before I finalize and close out of the podcast today?

SPEAKER_02: 48:40

I think too, just you know, we were talking a little bit about like kind of with your team and checking in. And I think too, you know, I've noticed sometimes with myself, if I'm really focused and going through something that is very challenging and taxing, that I don't necessarily want to answer when someone asks me, Are you okay? Because I don't want to falter. I don't want to lose that momentum. I need to stay focused. And I would say on the other side of that, if you are with someone that you can see that they are like struggling, they're burning it out at both ends, but they're determined to get through that week, that project, whatever it is, I think it's very helpful sometimes to say, Can I circle back with you? Can I check in with you in a few days? Or can I check in with you later today? Because we don't want to derail. We don't want to, you know, if someone is zeroed in and there's like this survival technique happening, but I think it is important just as humans to, you know, meet someone where they're at, but also do your due diligence of saying, Well, can I check in with you later about that?

SPEAKER_00: 49:38

Yeah, because it's not dismissive then, is it? And it's not just saying, Oh, I'm fine as a default response. It's actually saying, I'm not okay at the moment. I'll come back to you on it. I like that. It's really good. What message do you want first responders and healthcare workers to take away from this whole conversation today?

SPEAKER_02: 49:54

Oh my gosh. I think the biggest thing that I'd love for them to take away is like, you know, those internal conflicts that you tend to have, and maybe that fear center critic that has a lot of internal real estate. Like, number one, you're not alone. And those are actually strengths that you have, but it's also your duty to think about what that critical part of you, those protective parts of you, are trying to protect so that you can begin to soothe them and do the internal work.

SPEAKER_00: 50:24

Yep, mindfully. I love it. I'm so grateful. And because I am so grateful, and because I'm a multi-billionaire, I've decided that for being a guest on the podcast, I'm gonna build you a holiday house or buy you a holiday house anywhere in the world that you want. And I love this question for people because it's interesting. I used to say, where would you like to live? And they always say where they are, but I'm gonna build this somewhere else. It's not allowed to be where you live now, and you have to live in it for six months. You can take your husband or your kids or whatever you want to do, I don't care, or you can just go and have a nice six-month retreat yourself. Where do you want me to build it for you?

SPEAKER_02: 50:58

Oh my gosh. And this has to be a real place, right, Roger?

SPEAKER_00: 51:02

Oh, well, yes, it can't be a fantasy land. I can't build it on a nowhere, or I've got to build it somewhere.

SPEAKER_02: 51:09

You know, I think I've always been very interested in Fiji, being on the water and exploring and kind of having just very outdoors mindset and talk about resets, talk about being in the present. I think it would just be a challenge because it's so different from what I know and what I've experienced. But I would be in a place where I think I could really slow down and be one with nature.

SPEAKER_00: 51:32

I have a client of mine who's Fijian, most beautiful person you will ever meet. And yeah, we talk about this, the Fijian culture and the way the people are beautiful. I was in Fiji three years ago and on Matamanoa Island. If you ever get the chance, go to Matamanoa Island. It's a child-free island. We just sat on this wet deck pool looking out at the ocean for seven days, and it was just the best reset in the whole world. It was amazing. Thank you so much. Leah, where can people find you if something that you've said has resonated? Whereabouts can they find you?

SPEAKER_02: 52:03

Absolutely. So my website is leamarone.com. You can find me on Instagram, you can find me on Facebook and all the social platforms. I also have a book called Serial Fixer Break Free from the Habit of Solving Other People's Problems. And that is available for pre-order. It comes out November 11th, and you can get it in your hands now or then. And yeah, I'd love to hear from you. And if there's any questions, I'm happy to support.

SPEAKER_00: 52:28

Wonderful. We didn't talk about the book. I meant to talk about the book, and we didn't talk about the book. You must be super excited that you've got your own book coming out.

SPEAKER_01: 52:36

Yeah, it's been wonderful. It's been wonderful, wonderful to have a publishing team of people that know what the heck they're doing.

SPEAKER_00: 52:41

Oh, yeah, that would help. Yeah, I'm gonna write a book one day too. Anyone's listening that is a publishing company, knock yourself out, approach me, because I've got so many thoughts that I want to get out on paper to help first responders to recover from PCSD, anxiety, and depression of my own journey. But anyway, yeah, it's an exciting book, and you've called it the serial fixer. So I assume, whether it's right or wrong, I assume you're going down the line of the serial pleaser, the rescuer, the person that feels like they've got to be doing everything for everybody else to help them. Is that what it is?

SPEAKER_02: 53:11

You're absolutely right. It's about setting those external boundaries and being mindful of how you show up in relationships and overextending. But it's first and foremost, kind of like what we've talked about today, a lot of the internal work and just being able to really, I think, enhance the relationships that you have externally and more importantly with the one that you have with yourself.

SPEAKER_00: 53:30

Incredible. We'll look forward to that. When's it coming out? When's it due?

SPEAKER_02: 53:33

It releases November 11th, but it's available for pre-order now.

SPEAKER_00: 53:37

Oh, it's very soon. Okay, I'll tell you what I'll do. I'll put a link in the show notes to your website, your Instagram, and I'll also accidentally put one in there for your book as well. Um, for people to go and pre-order it as well. We'd be probably fairly close to the launch of your book on the day that I actually released this. So that's going to be really super for you as well. Awesome. Awesome. Leah, that was a brilliant chat, and thank you so much for sharing your insights and your practical tools. Thank you. For anyone listening, I hope that you do. Take a moment today to just check in with yourself and notice those inner voices. Noticing them is what will help you. Take a few micro resets and listen to what your body is actually telling you. It's not about doing more, it's actually about recovering better so that you are better for yourself. Now you can find more about Leah and her work at Leamarone.com. And as I said, I'll put the link in the show notes. And if you're a shift worker or a first responder and you want to learn more about building sustainable health and resilience, you can come and join us inside the Shift Workers Collective, which is my own private online community of shift workers where I run live Q ⁇ A's every Tuesday, and I also run a shift work-related topic on the first Monday of every month. It's a community where I help you to thrive and not just survive using topics like what we've discussed with Leah today. Thanks again for listening to the Healthy Shift Podcast, and I'll catch you in the next episode. Thank you for listening. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe so you get notified whenever a new episode is released. It would also be ever so helpful if you could leave a rating and review on the app you're currently listening on. If you want to know more about me or work with me, you can go to ahealtyshift.com. I'll catch you on the next one.