Speaker 1: 1:35

flexibility is going to be really important in terms of the connection and the quality time that you spend together as a family when your roster does come out sitting down and planning out some of those activities, and being flexible in the sense that on the day that you have a family activity planned you might get an overtime phone call but that might just mean that that activity and that quality family experience just needs to shift to another day or another time.

Speaker 2: 2:13

Shift work can be brutal, but it doesn't have to be. Welcome to a healthy shift. My name is Roger Sutherland, certified Nutritionist, veteran Law Enforcement Officer and 24-7 shift worker for almost four decades. Through this podcast, I aim to educate shift workers, using evidence-based methods, to not only survive the rigours of shift work but thrive. My goal is to empower shift workers to improve their health and wellbeing so they have more energy to do the things they love. Enjoy today's show. Welcome to another episode of a Healthy Shift podcast Now.

Speaker 2: 2:46

Today is a request podcast, which is interesting because I had someone that approached me that said to me how do we deal with police families like where the wife is at home, the husband's off to work or vice versa, and there's children at home? How do we balance that in life as a family? We're having real troubles with it. Now, I'm not a psychologist I'm certainly not, and I know nothing about those sort of things, but I have a therapist that actually deals with these sort of things. Alana Russell is the person that I've got Now. Alana is known as the police social worker on Instagram and I've connected with her. We've done a live before and she is married to a policeman and she has two young children as well and she's a counsellor for police or first responding families, she's the right person to have on the podcast. So what I've done is I've invited her to come on and we've got a series of questions to address a number of issues, and you will hear in this podcast what we cover off on and the challenges that people can face in these types of relationships where one's a first responder, one's just stuck at home or working, or you feel like you're at home doing whatever.

Speaker 2: 4:04

Anyway, let's not get into it now. You'll hear what Nalana's got to say. She's fantastic to have and I really got a lot out of her own the live that we did. But I will say this there was a couple of little things that she said towards the end of the podcast that made me go. Oh, I never thought about that, never realized that. Stay tuned, they are fantastic. So, without much further ado, let's get on with Alana Russell. And welcome to the show, alana Russell. How are you today?

Speaker 1: 4:33

Great. Thank you so much for having me here.

Speaker 2: 4:35

It's an absolute pleasure to have you on. We've done an Instagram Live before and I thought you offered so much value. It was really, really important to get you onto our podcast so that you can share the wisdom that you have from your own occupation, and you're going to tell us all about that. Can you tell us a bit about your background, as to who you are and what led you to focus on the unique challenges faced by first responders and their families?

Speaker 1: 5:02

Absolutely so. I am a social worker. My background is actually in frontline child protection, so I have done a lot of shared work with police on duty. I now am a frontline therapist, so I have bridged out into private practice. I focus on first responders and trauma-informed care as well. I'm also a police wife. I have two young children, so I feel like that can stand for a degree in itself.

Speaker 2: 5:29

You should get a medal at the very least. If you're going to be a police wife with two young children, I think you need a medal and then to go off and try and help other people with their issues, that brings its own challenges as well, doesn't it?

Speaker 1: 5:41

It sure does. So I also branched out and I studied perinatal mental health. So motherhood and I was looking at isolation and what that's like for new parents and I felt like other mums weren't quite having the same experience as what I was as a police wife. So that led me then to create a meetup group in my local area to get to know other families that I could relate to and that we could support one another. And then I was figuring out that they were having the exact same experiences as me. So I was like we need to talk about this. This is a thing that impacts every single frontline family.

Speaker 2: 6:12

Totally agree with you. Now, the reason why this podcast has actually come about and I came across you was because I had someone reach out to me and say because I always ask who can I get as guests on the podcast, that would help you. And they said I really need someone to help us to how we go about balancing our life when we're in either two shift workers in police, or whether we've got one or the wife's at home or the husband is at home and the wife is working, because we've got to remember that that actually happens as well. It's not just the wife that's left at home a lot of the time, it's the husband as well, isn't it?

Speaker 1: 6:48

Yep it goes both ways, definitely. I think then the shift was amplified when we had children as well and adding that additional layer of responsibility on top.

Speaker 2: 7:06

It does, doesn't it? Now I can look at it from my perspective because I was a husband with two young children. Both of my children were born during my time in the blues, so I know what it's like to well. I don't know what it's like from the wife's perspective, obviously, but I certainly know what it was like from my perspective, and we're going to get into that in this podcast because it's a fascinating process, so I can talk about it from our side, my side, the male. You can talk about it from what it's like being left at home as the wife as well. I think it's really important. How does your experience as both a police social worker and a trauma therapist inform your work with shift workers, particularly in the realm of the relationships which we want to focus on today?

Speaker 1: 7:39

Yes, it is different and it needs to be treated differently. So the things that would work in textbook relationships with couples that don't have the additional stresses of a frontline work and trauma that really impacts the way that you can communicate with your partner, the times that you choose to communicate with your partner as well, and what you can speak to them about. So it's great to have that theoretical knowledge, but it really needs to be customized to what it looks like for frontline families.

Speaker 2: 8:05

Love that. Now. I know myself and you're going to be able to relate to this. So will your husband when he listens to it. Trust me, we as first responders when our wife says to us have you noticed that you're doing this or you're doing that, we can feel attacked, like very attacked, and we get that at work. So we go to work and we're working at work and then we come home and then when we're trying to deal with family and do the things that we're doing, and all of a sudden the wife says hey, come and sit down, we need to have a chat about it. You can actually feel attacked. We're going to get into this question later on, but feel attacked. We're going to get into this question later on, but it's a very, very difficult balancing act, isn't it? It must be very difficult for you.

Speaker 1: 8:44

Yeah, definitely. And when you said that, I just started smiling because my partner said you're just being at me, Don't?

Speaker 2: 10:14

at me.

Speaker 1: 10:17

And when I get out there and I speak about these things from a relationship perspective, it's not because it's perfect, it's because we're trying to figure it out along the way as well. So I can definitely draw on some of those personal examples that people come to me and they talk about and I'm like, yes, that does happen in our households, because of X, y and Z.

Speaker 2: 10:34

I love this and it's an important note that we actually make here, and that is we're searching for the right balance, aren't we? Because it's still very new for us to start acknowledging and recognizing, because in years gone by, it was very much the wife just stayed at home, or the husband stayed at home, shut up, put up, and we just watched our relationships just completely falling apart. But I think what's great now is we're starting to have conversations around this and we are trying to figure it out literally, aren't we? We're trying to find ways and everybody's all sort of working in the background to find a really good way forward, and what works for some people won't work for others, but it certainly will help someone, without any doubt whatsoever.

Speaker 2: 11:18

Let's get into it, because we're going to talk about this as we go on through the podcast. So what I want to do is the term shift work goes beyond the hours. It's actually a lifestyle, isn't it? And it's all well and good for your husband I'm talking about goes, I'm going to work and he goes to work and he comes home. But what are some of the most common stresses that you see personally in first responder relationships, the people that you deal with?

Speaker 1: 11:44

A very good question. I definitely think emotional unavailability, the lack of empathy, piece as well, like feeling numb, feeling disconnected and checked out, cold, distant or shutting down. And it's really hard to not take that behavior personally as a spouse because you think, oh, they're not responding to me, they've gone cold. It must be that something like what have I done wrong? Something's wrong with me, whereas it's like sometimes it's actually not about you, it's just decompressing, or they just need space, or something bad has happened at work. So that would be something that comes up a lot for first responders in relationships. On the other side of that, cops also feel like their partners don't understand the work they do or the toll that it takes. And, of course, solo parenting.

Speaker 2: 12:24

Ah yes, now let's go back to that. I just want to unpack one thing there. The book Men Are From Mars and Women Are From Venus was a great read for me. It's a great read, important that everybody has a read of that, because it teaches you the women and the man thing and how women just want you to say to them I'm okay, I just need a little bit of time. I'm going off to my man cave, I'll be back in half an hour. And then she's happy, because generally what happens is the man just walks off and goes, leave me alone, and walks off and the woman thinks, oh my God, the relationship's over, don't they?

Speaker 1: 13:02

Absolutely. And sometimes then the man comes in from like a solution-focused point of view. Rather than validating and appreciating the partner and just holding that emotional space, they want to jump in and fix it. And cops are so good at fixing problems, right, that's what they do. But for a spouse at home, you know what that looks like.

Speaker 2: 13:23

Yeah, I love this because I'm looking at this from my own perspective. You're talking about it from yours, because men do? We come in, because when a woman talks and okay, let's talk about it when a female speaks, the man wants to solve that problem for them. No worries, honey, I've got this for you. Bang, here's the solution. You didn't want the solution, you just wanted a sounding board, right? You just wanted to hear it and be validated in how you're feeling over what you're feeling about. Now, police compounds that even worse, doesn't it? Yes, because what we do is we are not only males, as in our side, we're not any males, but we're used to just going to work. Here's a problem, fix it right, move on to the next problem. But we're used to just going to work. Here's a problem. Fix it right, move on to the next problem, fix the next one, keep on moving on. And we can do it quite coldly at home, because we're used to being so clinical while we're at work, correct?

Speaker 1: 14:10

Yes, that's right, and you spend 12 hours on shift and then walk through the door and we speak about. It's very hard to transition out of that emotional space, and from a hormonal level as well. Yeah, but they do require very different skill sets.

Speaker 2: 14:23

Yep, okay, so let's cover that off with the book Men are from Mars and women are from Venus. I'll find a copy and what I'll do is I'll post a link to it in the show notes, because it's such an important read, I feel, for a lot of people, and if you don't read it I'm sure it's on Spotify Premium Just get it, listen to it and you'll just have so many aha moments and it will change the way that you actually think You'll communicate better. Now, many partners of first responders feel like they're holding down the fort at home, and I want to be clear here too. We're talking about males and females, both ways, because I coach a lot of female shift workers with non-shift working husbands that are at home as well, as well as ones that have got husbands that are shift workers at home. So what are some of the practical strategies for maintaining a strong connection when the person's schedule is unpredictable and often quite demanding between the two?

Speaker 1: 15:16

That's a good question. Flexibility is going to be really important in terms of the connection and the quality time that you spend together as a family. When your roster does come out sitting down and planning out some of those activities, and being flexible in the sense that on the day that you have a family activity planned, you might get an overtime phone call but that might just mean that that activity and that quality family experience just needs to shift to another day or another time. Awesome.

Speaker 2: 15:43

I think this is a really good point to make. When the roster comes out, I think, scheduling. Now I'm going to talk about it. But Melissa and I call it you and me, babe Tom. I noticed on your stories the other day you had date night, do you know what I mean? But we call it, you and me, babe Tom, and that's what we do. We set aside that time. That that's it, and it's that time that we get to get and that's just our time. Now, there are times, of course, when you can get the overtime and it snookers into that. I think, one of the most important things that the husband can do. Who's a worker this is my opinion, I think if the husband's working and he's the one that's got the overtime, he comes home and he says I know I stuffed up that we lost the night shift or we lost that date. What about if we reschedule it for tuesday?

Speaker 1: 16:30

that's great, being proactive and protective about it as well.

Speaker 2: 16:33

Like that, time is important and if you don't prioritize it, it will be one of the first things to slip away agreed, yeah, because then you become far too tired I'm too tired or I can't be bothered with this, or I think if it's the husband that comes back from work and he's had the overtime, you've got to remember. I think what we lose sight of. It really hurts the husband as well, because he looks forward to that time, and I think it's easy for people to write it off as in oh, you've got overtime again, and then he's attacked the fact that he wasn't there. He already knows he wasn't there. He already knows and I think I still think that responsibility comes back onto him that he needs to turn around and say, yeah, look, we sacrificed this, but let's reschedule it in for another night here and make the time.

Speaker 1: 17:18

And I think like that acknowledgement piece comes into that as well. I know that it was really disappointing that I had to stay back and that date night got cancelled. I know that means you were looking forward to me walking through the door and, you know, getting some time to yourself. You've been with the kids all day. That's exhausting. We're both really tired.

Speaker 1: 17:37

But instead of like going to the default of attacking one another, like how can we just be kind to one another and you know Bernie Brown speaks about like the percentage way of communicating, to talk about like the capacity saying you know what, today I'm at, you know, 20%. You don't need to go into the details of why you're at 20%. But then you know your partner can be like oh well, I've got 80%, so I'm now going to hold more to be able to balance that out for you. And that goes both ways Sometimes to balance that out for you, and that goes both ways Sometimes if you have had a really difficult day, the partner then being able to step up when you need that space as well. So the communication piece of that is so important so it's not always defaulting just onto one partner that it does have a chance to balance out.

Speaker 2: 18:14

Oh, that's so good. I like that. I do. I really like that. I love being able to come home and validate where you're actually at, as to how much you've got to give, without making it too clinical. Oh, I've only got 75%, you've got 25%. And I think if we go down that line and we do that, I think that works out really well for relationships, because I think a lot of husbands are of the opinion, or a lot of the working partners let's call them working partners come home to their home partner and will say oh, you've had the kids all day, I've got the kids. Now you go out. That's not necessarily what you want, is it?

Speaker 1: 18:50

Yeah, because then that sort of doesn't equal connection and that's what the relationships miss a lot of the time. So you have shift work and extended amounts of time where you're away from one another and then you just come home and you sort of just like, you know, one walks in the door, the other one walks out. So it's about making that family time a priority, especially when you feel like one partner is holding down the fort, because if it's not balanced, one person gets resentful.

Speaker 2: 19:16

Yes, yeah, I agree, and I think when you're home, you've got the children. If they're young children and toddlers, you've got young children at home. It is a full-on job for whoever's at home. I think we've gone beyond the days now of coming home and saying, what have you been doing all day? I think it's probably the most dangerous thing you could ever say in a relationship, isn't it really? But I think, instead of just coming home and saying, okay, I've got the kids, now you go to the gym. Sometimes that works really well. You can go off to the gym, go for your walk, do whatever you want to do. You need your time, but, like sometimes, I know me personally. I used to come home from work and I wanted 10 to 15 minutes to put everything in its place and get my mind in order. So if anybody was coming at me wanting to actually say to me I need you to do this, I need you to do that, it really did cause a lot of problem.

Speaker 1: 20:13

It's so important that you have the awareness of that. You know I need that 10 to 15 minutes when I get home to be able to show up as the husband that you need me to be, you know. And then, when you plan for that space as well, it helps your partner to also understand and be able to facilitate that. And that's so much of what we speak about when we're transitioning into the home, so you can be your best self at work and your best self at home as well, is those transitional tools to be able to leave work at work and take off that hat and be like I've been a good cop today, but now I'm going to be a good dad.

Speaker 2: 20:42

Now, we often talk about the importance of communication. So for a ship working couple, what does effective communication actually look like? Because I know it's got to be a very, very difficult balancing act. All right, how do we approach this? Where's the best time or what's the best way to say are you good?

Speaker 1: 20:59

Yes, this is something I had to learn a lot of trial and error to figure out when I could catch my partner at his best rather than at his worst. Choosing when I approach conversations was so important. Knowing that when he walks through the door and I want to have an emotional conversation with him, it's not going to work in my favor. It's probably going to get shut down and I might be left feeling hurt or disappointed. So, depending on what I need from him, I'll plan that conversation, and I find 24 hours after a shift is usually when I get access to his most emotional self, and I know a lot of other shift workers are in that same situation.

Speaker 2: 21:35

So you would wait 24 hours. You know you'd have to give it that decompression. It's very difficult on the partner at home, on yourself.

Speaker 1: 21:47

It is because that means that you need to hold that as well and figure out other ways to sort of support yourself emotionally, to hold that off. So that could be calling a friend, it could be journaling, it could be being able to sit with it and make sure that it's not loaded with emotion. So then, when you speak to them about something that has a potential to cause an argument, you're in the right the headspace as well. Okay, on that point then, do you speak to them about something that has a potential to cause an argument, you're in the right headspace as well?

Speaker 2: 22:04

Okay, on that point then, do you think then that can be an advantage sometimes as well, having that space to give yourself a chance to sit in it, think about it, process it, because in the heat of battle you may have actually spewed it out not quite right.

Speaker 1: 22:19

Absolutely, and that's where feelings get hurt. That's when we go too hurt, that's when we go too far, that's when we start arguing about everything else. So when we speak about couples, counseling and what we know about that, we call it like stacking everything in the kitchen sink. So instead of just leaving one issue to be one issue, you just keep on piling it up and it's messy and it's overflowing, and we want to avoid doing that when we're arguing in a healthy way.

Speaker 2: 22:42

That is so good, stacking it in the kitchen sink. As the dishes accumulate in the kitchen sink, so the problems accumulate as well.

Speaker 1: 22:51

Yeah. Then the argument becomes about I'm arguing about topic one, but then, because you shut it down, now I'm feeling disrespected. So now you're arguing about both things the first topic and the disrespect on top of it. So sometimes being able to hold that back, process it and get really clear about what you want to speak to your partner about and the outcome that you want as well, that can be a really healthy way of working through conflict.

Speaker 2: 23:16

That is fantastic. That is so good, because it's really important that you recognize, acknowledge that the person's tired, and not start on one issue and then continually roll on to everything else. And you know, I will say this, and once you step into a management level in the police, the idea is to grab as much shit as you can and throw the whole lot at once so that something sticks is. You would know what I'm talking about here, wouldn't you?

Speaker 1: 23:46

it's so typical.

Speaker 2: 23:47

It's, it's so typical, unfortunately, because that is exactly what happens like what really are we talking about here?

Speaker 1: 23:55

one issue or a hundred of them?

Speaker 2: 23:56

yeah, it just gets to the stage where, yeah, have we like, I started talking to you about the gas bill, but now we're talking about you know, you haven't filled the car up with petrol and now we've got this problem and such and such has done this and you're not there for that. Then it becomes really messy. Let's leave that one there. But that tends to be where it happens. Now you've sort of covered the next one. But when's the right time to address a difficult conversation, because there are difficult conversations in relationships as well. We don't do that on date day, do we? We don't wait for date night to sit down in a good moment and have a difficult conversation. That's got to be reserved for date night, don't it?

Speaker 1: 24:32

No, we don't want to do that I mean, yeah, what works well for some couples when they're bringing up a conversation that could be challenging or difficult, is sometimes doing that through a way that's not as confronting. So writing it down for your partner to read it. It could be sending them a text message, it could be speaking to them when you're sitting in the car next to them, when you're both driving, so you're not sitting there like this formal intervention when you're raising something. So using a sort of a different activity in the middle that you're both focusing on can be a helpful way of having those conversations without making them get so defensive, so heated, so quickly.

Speaker 2: 25:09

Excellent, yes, okay, I was just thinking about how that's happened to me in so many times. Yeah, you've got me while I'm driving.

Speaker 1: 25:17

Yeah, People do feel quite comfortable to bring things up when there's not that you know, sitting across the top of a coffee table making direct eye contact scenario.

Speaker 2: 25:29

And once again, I think it's important to remember as well that you and your husband, the way you've learned together and approach each other, is probably going to be very different to what I had done in the past and how I know. I'm very grateful. I am very, very grateful. In my whole 40 years I had partners, three solid partners that were excellent. They were very, very good and I can't fault them in how they handled me. I guess it's how you handle, because you do. You have to handle them, don't you really? I think that's a fair way to say it.

Speaker 1: 26:03

Just to learn them as well and how to get the most out of the relationship. And that takes time as well, and it does take mistakes and reflection to be like, yeah, that didn't work too well, what am I going to do right next time.

Speaker 2: 26:14

Yeah, Reflection is so important. How can I do that better next time? So it didn't get to that stage. Then that stage changes again, which causes us problems. Now you've got children, and it's a balancing act with children as well, when we come to parenting and our shift working dynamic as well. Now you work yourself, you do your job, that you're doing, so you are working, Plus you've got young children, Plus your husband is a full-time shift worker. It's tough, isn't it? Parenting is really, really tough. How does actually I know this is going to sound like a ridiculous question because I know the answer, but I want to hear it from your perspective but how does shift work actually amplify the challenges that we have? So what are the common feelings that both parents, the one at work and also the one at home? What are some of the common issues that you see there?

Speaker 1: 27:01

So what we know from studying parent hoard is that up to one in five women have postpartum anxiety or depression, and one in 10 dads as well. Right, so that is also stigmatized. People don't like to speak about how much dads are also struggling with this parenting piece. And then you're adding shift work on top of that. And then you're adding work trauma on top of that. And then you're adding work trauma on top of that right and relationship strain. So you can imagine looking at frontline families that are raising young kids. They're not getting time to themselves after shift to decompress. It's like they've finished shift and it's been a horrible day. They walk in the door and then another shift starts, right. So you're just compounding that pressure like a pressure cooker really.

Speaker 2: 27:41

It's a lot, it is. It's like starting another shift, because you come home and you've already done your shift and you just want to go home because, I'll be honest, no doubt before you had children it was so much easier. It was still difficult, but it was so much easier because it was just you and husband and you could sleep in until whenever, get up whenever, it didn't matter, it just didn't matter. You could walk through life when he got his days off. But as you go on now with children, you're dealing with children in the morning, you're trying to keep them out of the way, you're trying to keep them quiet on shifts, plus you're trying to work, plus he's got to step up at times when you need to be able to do things like this as well, and it comes down to those conversations.

Speaker 2: 28:28

It's really, really difficult and I know when you've had a shift where the radio's going all the time, everybody's at you because you're in domestic situations or whatever and you've got to deal with your own management, and then the next thing that actually happens is you come home and all of a sudden you've got screaming kids that want dad. It's a full-on thing that you've got to try and deal with there, and I think this is really difficult. So let's just talk about the partner, because you're an expert at this, the partner who stays at home. As a general rule, you're often managing, like the household admin, absolutely everything. You are the manager of the house, right? You've got to do the school runs. You've got to get all the other daily tasks. It's book week at school. You've got to get the book week things organized. You've got to do all of that.

Speaker 1: 29:11

It's a busy life, Roger.

Speaker 2: 29:13

If you actually sat down and you wrote it all down with what you actually had to do every single day. That's why I say you never have the conversation of what have you been doing all day. Even if you say it as a throwaway, it's very unhealthy. What are some of the ways to create a fair and balanced system that doesn't lead to the resentment? Because it's easy to fall into the trap and I know I did, I know I did and it cost me dearly right To fall into the trap of oh, but I do this and I've done that, and I've done this and I've done that. I don't think you're acknowledging this or that. Or I've done this and I've taken the kids there and I do this. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You don't need to say how do we work this, how do we balance it out? What's the best way to go about it.

Speaker 1: 29:55

There is a tool sometimes that I do use in couples therapy, called Fair Play, and it goes through identifying and actually putting an amount of time to each individual domestic chore for both people, right?

Speaker 1: 30:07

So you lay these cards out in the table in front of you and it's a real conversation starter for your partner to see where is all of this pressure coming from, where is all this motherhood mental load? And then, once it's clear to your partner because you can't also assume that your partner knows everything that goes on behind the scenes no, right, that they're then in tune with how many tasks you did, that you didn't sit down that whole day, that you cleaned everything up, right. So that's a really good conversation starter. And then when you look at that, you can evaluate okay, what can be delegated here, how can we share these tasks, what things are really important to us and what things right. Like a juggling act, right. And you're juggling and juggling and some of those balls are made from glass and some of them are plastic. Some of them can drop and some of them can't. So it's about really looking at where is the whole household capacity going and how can we reduce that level.

Speaker 2: 30:59

Right, that's really good, but you don't want to be I always thought that in a fair and equitable relationship as well. You don't really want to be saying this is your job every time and this is your job every time. And I think it comes down to working together as a team, acknowledging, recognizing that that's being done, that needs doing. I know, and I also know from the females that I've coached as well, one of the most difficult things that the female shift worker has is mum guilt. It's awful like really severe mum guilt. The fact that she's off and working and the kids are at home with the husband or doing whatever, impacts greatly on females.

Speaker 2: 31:37

And this is where it's one of the avenues of my talk in my women in shift work and how difficult it is because it's a hormonal rollercoaster, no doubt about it, not a female's fault, certainly not the male's fault. It's something that's got to be worked in with. But also we're in a position where we have that mum guilt because they feel so. I said before, the one at home is generally the woman and it's the household administrator doing everything, running everything, but when she's at work she's still wanting to try and run everything at home at the same time. It's a very, very difficult system to try and sit down and you don't want to make it too clinical, but it does need to be a conversation as who's doing what and helping.

Speaker 1: 32:20

And it may not be equal, but it needs to feel fair and I think that's what we're looking at with this dynamic. Like your partner may not be physically able to help when they're away from the home 12 hours a day, right, and when they're being called from job to job, but there may be other areas that they can help, right, and just so you feel supported. So that's where that teamwork comes into it, that it's not that tit for tat or competition who's doing more, but you just want to feel supported and that everyone's contributing in the best way that they can Can.

Speaker 2: 32:48

I ask you then this is important, but you've said that when your husband's off doing 12-hour shifts and he's running from job to job, how can he support you? When he's doing that, what's the best advice that you can give a male police officer, shift worker, first responder that's working? How can he support his wife, who's at home with the children at that time? What can he do?

Speaker 1: 33:11

There could be practical things that he could do. When he gets on lunch break he may be able to answer an email or return a phone call or do something like that. But even checking in with me, how are the kids today? They're sick. Can I book a doctor's appointment? The fact that I'm away for 12 hours a day, you must be exhausted. Just simply hearing that from my partner, I'm like, yeah, I am really exhausted.

Speaker 2: 33:31

I love that.

Speaker 1: 33:33

I'm not wanting to fix the roster. I know the realities of the job. But I want him to see that it also places pressure on me.

Speaker 2: 33:40

Yeah, I agree, you feel validated for what you're actually doing. I think my advice and it's something that I did my advice is always just to make the call it doesn't have to be 50 times during the shift a few times during the shift and just say how are you going? How are the kids? Can I talk to them? Do you want me to do something? Whatever, how can I go about it? And I think that check-in, like you just said, that check-in with you, it's got to be difficult. How can I help? Is there anything that I can do? You know damn well he can't do anything from where he is, but just asking. It's very true, it's 100% difference, isn't it?

Speaker 1: 34:13

Yeah and saying like hey, I'm missing you. I look forward to spending time with you when we get home. Let's watch our favourite TV show together, or something.

Speaker 2: 34:20

Yeah, talk about the last episode and what the next episode on the Netflix documentary? Yeah, that's gold.

Speaker 1: 34:27

I like that Just something to hold that connection, yeah, and also like when I'm out with my obviously I'm just working three days because my kids are really young as well, so those other days I am just a stay-at-home mom, but sharing photos with him so he can be included in our day. And then, when he comes home, asking the kids hey, how was the zoo? Mom got this for you. So they feel that sense of wraparound, connection and love as well, even though one parent is physically absent from the house so much more of the time.

Speaker 2: 34:52

I love that. Photos, photos are a good thing. Now, obviously I haven't worked shift work with young kids for many, many years now and sadly it was probably pre-mobile phone time, to be perfectly honest with you, and you certainly couldn't send photos. But now you can just take snaps of photos and just send them on, can't you and people? Then you feel like, oh, I can see little Johnny doing this or little Jenny doing this, and then I think he can then come home and show the photo and say, hey, look at this, mummy sent me this photo of you doing this. And then the kids feel like, oh, oh, daddy's there and he knew all about that. That's cool, you know, it's probably a really good one as well. Love that. Now you've got young children we haven't spoken about. Are you prepared to say how old your kids are at the moment?

Speaker 1: 35:34

Yes, almost turning two and three, my lordy me. So they're born within a year of one another. So back to back. You really are a sucker for punishment? Wait for this one. When my firstborn daughter was two weeks old, my partner got sent away on work trips once per month for a week for years on end. So I was there with this brand new baby, solo parenting. I'm like, what is this?

Speaker 2: 36:00

What's going on? This is not right. This is not how it's supposed to go. Doesn't he get time off because I've had this baby?

Speaker 1: 36:04

It's like what do you mean?

Speaker 2: 36:09

you're going on a holiday and he's like no, it's work. I'm like it's a holiday. Yeah, yeah, it's a junket. That's all it is. We know it's a junket. We know what you're doing. I hope you're enjoying the show. If you are, please don't forget to rate and review once you've finished. This helps the show's reach enormously.

Speaker 2: 36:27

And have you got my free ebook the Best Way to Eat on Night Shift? Well, this is a comprehensive guide to the overnight fast, why we should fast and how to best go about it. I've even included a few recipes to help you. I've put a link to the ebook in the show notes. And are you really struggling with shift work and feel like you're just crawling from one shift to the next? Well, I've got you. If you would like to work with me, I can coach you to thrive, not just survive, while undertaking the rigours of 24-7 shift work. Well-being seminars, where I will come to your workplace and deliver evidence-based information to help your well-being team to reduce unplanned leave and increase productivity in your workplace. I've put the links in the show notes to everything mentioned. You can find me at healthyshiftcom or on Instagram at a underscore healthy, underscore shift.

Speaker 2: 37:28

Now let's get back to the show. Okay, so your children are young. They're going to be asking a lot of questions because your husband is away for a long period of time during the day. Now your husband can be gone from before they get up until after they've gone to bed or around about that time as well.

Speaker 2: 37:48

Now we've got to think about your husband as well, because he's missing seeing the kids at the same time. Now they're his children. He wants to see them, he wants to spend time with them. He doesn't want to feel like he's going to grow apart from the kids at all, which makes it difficult. How do you explain to children at that age or how do you sort of work around that with the irregular hours, that daddy's already at work when they get up? What daddy's gone to work? Oh no, they get used to it. My kids yeah, dad's at work. You know like, yeah, dad's at work. Where else would he be? Dad's at work, like he's always there. And then you've got the kids have got to go to bed before dad even gets home, because if he gets overtime and he's snookered, isn't he like the kids are going to have to go to bed and they haven't seen him all day?

Speaker 1: 38:28

It's very difficult. Yes, it is very difficult, but we have been very intentional about the stories that we tell the kids around where daddy is and the sort of work that he's doing as well. When he was away for those weeks at a time, you know, we would utilize a voice recorder for him to like speak into a bedtime story and play that at night as a form of connection as well. They do have his photo that sits on their bedside table and they kiss the photo goodnight all the time. So it's actually his academy photo where he's in uniform and if it's anything like ours, it's got like a really dark background Anyway. So originally the kids were like, oh, dad works in a cave. I'm like no dad doesn't work in a cave.

Speaker 1: 39:05

He's not a bat, but you know he's working at night. So they seem to understand that dad now goes to work at night and that people in the community really need him and dad's a hero and we should be really proud of him. And when they get really upset or distressed about dad not being there, about acknowledging that. I can see that you're really sad and that you miss dad. I really miss him as well, you know, but dad's going to be home when you wake up tomorrow morning and we're going to go to the park or the beach together. We're going to pick up shells. How many shells do you think that you can fit in that basket over there? Whoever can guess the correct number? They're going to get a treat. So it's about acknowledging the feeling but then also getting them to shift from disappointment to looking forward to or excitement about when they will reconnect with dad as well.

Speaker 2: 39:49

Basically gamification, gamifying it with them.

Speaker 1: 39:52

Yeah, and like just acknowledging. Like you know, this is hard for me as a police wife and I'm a therapist and a mom and adult.

Speaker 2: 40:00

You know what I mean.

Speaker 1: 40:00

I've had 31 years of doing this stuff and I find it tricky, let alone being able to co-regulate and coach. You know, little people through those big emotions a two and a three-year-old. But I think also showing them what shift work is like is really important. So there's lots of books out there that speak about police shift workers and the sort of work that they do. So starting those stories really early, that can be really helpful as well. And also them connecting with other first responder families in the community so they have friends that are going through the same thing as they grow up, so they don't feel isolated and wonder why their family looks different to everybody else's.

Speaker 2: 40:36

That's interesting. Yeah, I hadn't thought of that. It is because the children as well, with first responders and I'll talk about this shortly but I think when dad's had a tough shift or he's going through a tough period of time at work and it does happen, and you know it happens they can become very disconnected. And you did a post on this today, and I want to talk about a couple of the points that you made in there which are really valid, and something that I experienced myself which I thought was fantastic, and I think the kids can feel like it's their fault that dad's going off at them, but it's actually not. That's a really important one as well, isn't it? Because when dad comes home and his week is really short and he goes off or he gets antsy about something, Agitation and irritable and not much window of tolerance for anything.

Speaker 1: 41:22

And they're just being kids, they're just doing annoying kid things.

Speaker 2: 41:25

They're just being annoying kids, yeah, but it's not their fault, as in, I think it's not their fault and I think that's something that's really, really important for them to go to understand, and that's a conversation, isn't it? I think we make a big mistake of we tell children all the time, no, no, no, don't do that. No, no, no. But when they're being good and they're doing the right thing or they need something explaining to them I think just explaining it to them they go. Oh yeah, that makes sense. And then they go away quite content and happy, don't they?

Speaker 1: 41:55

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 41:56

Very good. Now I'm just going to find this one because I think it's a really important post, and I've now got this in front of me.

Speaker 1: 42:05

People do ask me about those posts and they think, oh, how do you post like regular content that's relevant? And I was like well, my partner is actually just so inspirational and gives me daily content to post about.

Speaker 2: 42:17

He's going to be thrilled at this one. Is this how you have your conversations with him? You just post about it and he goes what about this?

Speaker 1: 42:26

Make up Instagram posts, you just post about it and he goes hang on. What about this? Make up Instagram posts, just make up Instagram posts, but his friends have me on there so they know what's going on.

Speaker 2: 42:34

They all know and they're going to turn around and say, hey, have you been a bit distant at home? No, why? I just saw Alana's post.

Speaker 1: 42:44

What? What did you write? What's your wife upset about?

Speaker 2: 42:46

She's posting on instagram again now I just want to talk about this post because it's relevant for where we are right now in our um thing. Now you just said the job doesn't stay at work, it actually spills, and I totally agree, totally no argument there. I totally agree with that. And we do find and I love that you've made first responders, because I I refer to them as first responders and also frontline health, because I think frontline health really struggles with this, particularly our nurses, nurses and doctors. We all hold it together while we're at work because we have to. We stand there and we're big and strong and we're really good at it, but then what happens is we get home and it doesn't really shut down from there and then the impact actually spills over into the family unit, which is really tough.

Speaker 2: 43:31

Now I want to talk about the points that you actually made here, and I even commented on this and said slide five hit really hard, right, and it did. Point number one can they be present? Now I'm talking about you as a. When I say you, I'm talking about you as the parent that is at work and also the parent that is at home, because the parent that is at home is actually watching what is going on with you and I want people to be very mindful that that is what's happening. They're watching you literally falling apart, but you don't know it right, you don't know it. I know, I didn't know it myself. Can they be present?

Speaker 2: 44:11

Now, this is really important, this one here. It's such a simple line, but this one here is really important because I noticed that I was less and less and less present. I was always off elsewhere and this is something that is a real issue that partners sitting at home need to look out for. Can they be present Without being picky, but you can notice change, right Can they enjoy anything? I know anhedonia for me was something that was horrendous, led to my PTSD. I got no enjoyment out of anything. It didn't matter what I was doing, I just didn't enjoy it at all. That's a dangerous place to be, because when you've got young children and a partner at home, do they have things to look forward to? That's important, that we have things to look forward to and we do actually look forward to it, like date night, like we're going to go and do this together. We're going to the park, we're going to go and feed the swans. It's something simple. Where is their window of tolerance?

Speaker 1: 45:10

Because it gets shorter and shorter, doesn't it? It gets smaller and smaller the window of tolerance, that reactivity, absolutely, and, as you say, it's not just at work. People can hold up together at work, but it's usually the families that bear the brunt of that, the snuffiness and things, and it causes relationship issues.

Speaker 2: 45:23

It causes massive relationship issues, and I'll tell you why it does From my perspective. And that is because you think you can get away with it at home, but you can't get away with it with your colleagues because they'll knock you out.

Speaker 1: 45:33

Yeah, and like they say that we're the worst in our safe spaces just like toddlers right, they're the worst for parents because they know that that person can hold that emotional space. So, yes, it's good that first responders can walk through the door and actually feel like this place is safe for me to just, you know, let it all out and just be. But we also need to be mindful of how we do that so we don't hurt the people around us as well.

Speaker 2: 45:55

Yes, because we do. We hurt the people closest to us, and I know I did that. I know I did that. Can they regulate themselves when things don't go their way? Oh, that's a big one.

Speaker 1: 46:06

Did I get that one right?

Speaker 2: 46:12

oh, that's a big one. Did I get that one right? Oh, I had to get the tissue out when I read that one because I thought, oh, that's, that's drawn blood. Because, yeah, can you regulate yourself? How do you go about it? Now I want to ask you a question about this one, alana, because it's really important. How can we regulate ourselves? What is there that we can do to regulate ourselves? Because when we walk in the door and something doesn't quite go, what we were anticipating. When we got home, like for argument's sake, I was walking through the door and expecting my partner to have dinner ready. We were just going to have candles on the table and we're going to have dinner, but when I walked in, the house was trashed and the kids were still running around. There's a classic example, right?

Speaker 1: 46:47

High expectations of a candlelit dinner. It was an extreme.

Speaker 2: 46:51

All right, it was an extreme. Tell me you don't love a candlelit dinner, but anyway. But what I wanted to say about that was what is there that I can do? Because I've got to check in with myself here. I've learned this now. I didn't know this when I was actually working, but I have seriously learned this since I actually have done a lot of self-work on myself and I've learned to self-regulate and it literally is about stopping and asking yourself can I control this? No, I can't Right Breathe, I'm okay.

Speaker 1: 47:24

And you speak about breath work a lot as being a really important tool to be able to self-regulate as well, because when we have a thought that's linked to an emotion, it sort of floods the body, right, so we're just in that red zone. It's about acknowledging that we're in that red zone, being able to drop it down so then we can logically reason again. Right, and that happens a lot when we have these outbursts of anger, when we flip our lid. So how we can do that, reminding ourselves like we're in this space, everything's okay, I'm safe, this will pass, I'm breathing, I'm just going to release the physical tension.

Speaker 1: 47:57

Before then I can get in control of my mind and actually reason with this thought why did I think that everything needed to be perfect when I walked in the door? Why was I expecting the dinner to be there? And you know what, if dinner's not there, that's okay. We can get takeaway Like it's actually not as big of a big deal as what our emotions flood us and sort of signal to us about our environment, when we're like operating in that zone where everything is an issue after work Fantastic.

Speaker 2: 48:20

I like that, but I also. That can be a challenge to get to there. I will say that what I've learned since I did the breathwork course myself and I've learned well, I'm now a certified facilitator and I love it because I've learned so much myself. Stress is going to come at us right, there's no doubt about it. Stress is going to come at us. It's going to wash over our body. It's how we respond to that and what we've got to do is we've got to close that loop and we've got to close it very quickly, Otherwise it will manifest and get trapped in the body. So by literally going, this didn't go how. I wanted it to breathe and inform the body that it is in a safe place. Count of four in through the nose.

Speaker 1: 49:06

Count of six or eight out through the mouth longer breath out as well, just slowing down that loop.

Speaker 2: 49:11

Definitely that's a really effective way to do it yeah, because what we don't realize is is the trauma comes at us when we see it right, and we can't control that. We see it and it comes at us, but what we do have to do is we are then in control of bringing it back and managing it, and we have to do that. We are then in control of bringing it back and managing it, and we have to do that very quickly because we can't stay in that state. So breathing in through the nose, four counts, and then breathing out through purse lips, through the mouth, for six or eight, it's amazing how much difference that makes and how quickly it makes a difference to how you are actually feeling. Because if you don't do that, you are going to say something that once, when that prefrontal cortex has gone offline, and you say something to your partner that you live to regret. Once you calm down and that prefrontal cortex comes back online again, you live with regret for the rest of your life and you've hurt people around you, haven't you?

Speaker 1: 50:06

Yeah, definitely. It's so important to slow it down and put a pause on it and that means, you know, before reacting, even using all of those sensory things in the body as well, like going to the fridge, getting some cold water, putting on a cup of tea, holding that cup you know what I mean Like just something to bring it back to the physical sensation so it can switch it and sort of diffuse it. That's interesting.

Speaker 2: 50:28

I like that Just going and filling something up and just having a sensory touch.

Speaker 1: 50:31

Having a sensory Talk to us about that Going to the sink, rinsing your hands underwater. They're really really simple things that you can do to sort of just bring yourself back into the present.

Speaker 2: 50:41

Okay, what are some strategies that you just name one. Can you just back over that again for for us, because I find that interesting, because I've actually got a ptsd coin which has the four what can you see, what can you smell, what can you hear, what can you? You know, I can't remember what the other sense is now anyway, and that brings you back as well when you start to have a freak out, that can actually bring you right back. So you're saying sensory to your hands can actually help you to recenter rebalance, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 51:07

Water, especially like taking a sip of something really cold as well. So using that motion, that can be quite soothing for the nervous system as well. Very good. It can be like, honestly, like when you have something that feels like it's out of control, like an outburst of sort of like rage or anger or anxiety. Sometimes breath can be really good to bring it back down. But some people work really well with movement as well. Getting up, walking around the living room, being able to physically shake it out of their body, can be really helpful to sort of move that adrenaline through as well. So just being mindful when I work with people that yes, it's great to have a lot of breath work as well, but it's really good if it's backed up with having some of those physical tools of things that you can do from that perspective as well, excellent. And also the external sensory things.

Speaker 2: 51:48

And that validates what we learned as well. But when you're feeling that way, put the music on and dance to the music, like I know. If you did that and you put the music on, your husband's probably going to say turn that rubbish off, right, but getting that movement, it actually changes things completely. Good tips and shaking it out. I'll tell you another thing as well. Every man should have a screen pillow, a screen pillow. And I'll tell you why. Because men have, we are taught we have to bottle that emotion up and we bottle it and bottle it, and bottle it until it finally spills out. And it spills out in a really big way, right? Whereas women will feed it out very in small bits. It'll feed out, feed out, feed out, and they get to distribute it easier. Men don't do that because we can't yell and scream. Give them a pillow, scream into the pillow, get it out. Once they get it out, oh okay, I feel so much better now. There you go, scream pillow.

Speaker 1: 52:43

Pushing up against a wall can be really helpful as well.

Speaker 2: 52:45

Yep Not hit it, push up against it.

Speaker 1: 52:48

Not hit it, not hit it, then you have three problems the anger, the hole in the wall and the broken wrist With both of your hands just yourself and the wall and place a lot of your pressure up against it.

Speaker 2: 53:02

Okay, what does that do? It transfers the energy, yeah.

Speaker 1: 53:05

Yeah, it Okay. What does that do? It transfers the energy. Yeah yeah, it's just one of those physical releases, along with breath work as well.

Speaker 2: 53:13

The exercise is to actually scan your body and tense up your whole body and then be able to release it as well. Very good. Okay, let's go through some actionable takeaways for people. All right, I'm going to ask you this one, and I know you're in that situation. But if you came to me and you said we're at our wits end, we don't know what to do here, what's one good piece of advice that you would give to a first responder and their partner who are really struggling? They've really got themselves in a rut.

Speaker 1: 53:37

I think acknowledging it feels hard because it is hard.

Speaker 1: 53:40

I think that's the first step and that these relationships are going to take different skills to anything else that you're seeing, and also to not compare to other people that are not in this lifestyle, because that can cause a real issue as well.

Speaker 1: 53:52

Our capacity is different to those families, so giving yourself like some self-compassion but there are a lot of first responder families out there that are struggling with all of the same things I think when you can tap into a network as well, that's really helpful for being able to share some of those experiences and to be able to create that sense of connection that we know is so important for mental health and wellbeing as well, and it also, if you can get that from other people, it alleviates some of the pressure in the relationship, especially if you have a partner that's going through something with mental health right and they can't 100% show up. So it's about also being able to support your partner but being able to support your own emotional needs if they can't meet you there right now. So I think that's a really good thing to keep in perspective.

Speaker 2: 54:34

Okay, very good, I like that Great answer. So are there any specific exercises or habits that a couple could incorporate into their routine that would strengthen their relationship? We spoke about date night, but it's not always practical. You're not always in that zone, but what exercises or habits, routines, what is there that you could actually do that would strengthen a relationship?

Speaker 1: 54:57

There's so many good ones. Two things come to mind. It will be around the lines of the book that you recommended about men are from Mars, women are from Venus, and about knowing your partner's signs around shift work when they're overwhelmed. And literally I said to my partner I'm like I can see where you're at, go and have shed time, and I sent him to the shed.

Speaker 1: 55:15

Off to the shed, and it doesn't need to be a complicated it's amazing. Go to the gym, and now we have a routine where I know that he's going to be the best version of himself if he does start his day with exercise. So we'll wake up, I'll parent the kids, he'll go off to the gym and then I'll be able to do whatever I need to do as well. I love it. So knowing that he needs that more than me is okay for us, but it's about like communicating on how we can support those hobbies that help him to support himself emotionally as well.

Speaker 2: 55:50

That's really good. I like that and I know that seems like to some women. That would seem like, oh, I'm making it all about him. But you're actually helping yourself, aren't you, because you're giving him that outlet to go and do that.

Speaker 1: 55:57

I don't want to deal with him without going to the gym first.

Speaker 2: 56:02

That's what I was trying to say, but I didn't want to say it.

Speaker 1: 56:04

I see a huge difference in the way that I can connect with him and the way that then we enjoy the rest of our day parenting and everything else. So just giving him that half an hour to an hour to start his day that way, if that's what he needs to show up and be an amazing husband, go let him do that. But then he also does that for me when I need that space as well. So it's not. Yeah, there is a bit of give and take there. Oh, of course, it's not me just completely catering for him. He does a lot to support me to also have my own routines and spaces outside of parenting and being a partner.

Speaker 2: 56:32

I love that. And I love that so much because I think one of the most important things is you've recognized that he needs to do that. Otherwise I don't want to have to deal with him. You just go and do that. But with him, you just go and do that. But you'll find that you're sowing seeds in his mind as well that because he's been to the gym now and he's got his time there, you can do whatever you want for the rest of the day. He doesn't care, right, he will look after the kids. You can go and get your nails done, hair done, go out and have a coffee with other police wives or do whatever you want to do. He doesn't care, he's been to the gym. He's at his moment and that's clever and I know it sounds like relationship 101, but isn't it the first thing that goes no, you're not going to the gym. No, you can't go to the gym tonight because I've got the kids.

Speaker 1: 57:14

Well, there's a lot of arguments around exercise in first responder couples. What do you mean?

Speaker 1: 57:18

you've been doing a 12-hour shift and now you need to exercise before you come home and take care of the kids. But it's about switching the mindset of how I view exercise. It actually helps me. Yeah, love it To help him as well. It does. That's how you get the best of him. Yeah, especially like helping him break that cycle. When he's sleep deprived as well.

Speaker 1: 57:35

Exercise is obviously a really good reset for him, and that stands for a lot of cops as well. So, in terms of the communication aspect of a relationship, there is a really good activity and it includes active listening, and we're not so great at that. Peeling back to wanting to fix problems, so if you actually put a timer on for two minutes, right, you're sitting across from your partner and then it's. You say whatever you want for two minutes and their job is to not interrupt and to listen. They're not allowed to say anything. But the key to this is when the timer goes off, it switches around to one minute and then the person that was listening to you. They then need to repeat back everything that they have heard you say.

Speaker 2: 58:14

Okay.

Speaker 1: 58:15

Yeah. So it's a real test and a real eye-opening sort of experiment for couples that they can do on a regular basis to make sure, number one, they're both hearing each other, they're sitting in that space and that they're actively listening, not just going through the motions, and you'll find that it's really validating for your partner to say I can hear that you're just so stressed and you don't like this about what I'm doing and everything else. You're like, yes, you get it. And then you swap around and then you're like I actually feel like that very simple exercise can really strengthen marriages, and that's something I use all the time in couples therapy and it's something like, you know, my partner and I have trialed ourselves and we were like, wow, that felt really good.

Speaker 2: 58:54

I could use that. I could really use that Even today. I could still use that. I'm going to use that. I'm going to actually, I'm actually going to do that because I know that I can be looking but I'm not actually hearing right. Sometimes, not all the time, but sometimes, unless it's a topic that really super interests me. I love that. I'm actually going to do it. I've heard this before where you've got the egg timer three minutes, you get to talk for three minutes. Once that three minutes is done, you're finished and then you turn it over. The other person gets three minutes and then that's it done. Right, so you learn to condense down what you've got to say into that very short three-minute period. But it doesn't mean the other person's listening your way means that they have to be listening, and they have to be listening because they know at the end of that three minutes or two minutes, they've got to repeat it back.

Speaker 1: 59:41

They have to repeat it back and they're going to be stuck if they're not listening.

Speaker 2: 59:46

Because if you don't know what they said, they're going to be sitting there with crossed arms looking at you.

Speaker 1: 59:52

It's going to be a very long awkward time when it's your turn to repeat back yes, and more disappointment. More of these relationship issues stack up if you're not listening. So look, I really like it. It brings a little bit of fun into the relationship as well. It's something different to try, but it has a really good foundation and it teaches you how to actually listen to what your partner is saying. And then, if you create that space of like, okay, we're going to spend two or three minutes talking about our day and then we're stopping it and then we're going to speak about anything else. That can be a really healthy thing to do as well.

Speaker 2: 1:00:25

Yeah, that's interesting. Yeah, I like that. So we move on, we deal with it. We move on because you can't sit in it. You've got to move on from it. You can't just keep sitting in those things. And it is a bit of a I've learned now let it go and just move on, because it's pointless. Okay, is there anything that we haven't discussed that you really would like to talk about while you've got the opportunity to speak about it in this realm at the moment?

Speaker 1: 1:00:48

I think that when you know a really good way to introduce some of these things to first responders that may be struggling, there's a lot of books out there that can explain this process and I think that's very healing for a lot of first responders to not have to, you know, sit initially with a therapist and go through some of these things. People are reluctant to speak to professionals and I totally get that, but it is a really good starting point to learn about hypervigilance and how that overspill ends up in relationships and how it affects your communication and some of the things that your wife or partner may be speaking to you about. Right, so you don't have to hear it from me All my Instagram posts. There's a ton of resources out there that can help you as a starting point to help to explore and understand these issues.

Speaker 2: 1:01:33

What would you highly recommend as resources there must be? I'm sure I'll get to where you are so that people can follow.

Speaker 1: 1:01:41

I have a whole highlight on my page with all of the books that I have found super helpful in relation to this topic. Even Emotional Survival for Law Enforcement Families is an absolute must read. So many of the families and cops that I work with continue to come back to that book and they say, yeah, it was given to us at the academy and that's fine and we sort of read it when we're new and we think that won't happen to us. And my client recently urged me. He's like with the community you have online, tell people to continue to read that book throughout their career. They will be so surprised on how that has crept up for them and they will definitely be able to relate to it on different levels. So that's definitely a staple and a really good place to start. If you're curious about some of the things that I'm speaking about, about the overspill and how to how these things show up in your relationships, they're not just workplace issues, right?

Speaker 2: 1:02:30

No, and I think one of the things that I, when I stood in front of recruits and I get the opportunity to speak to recruits anyone says to me what advice would you actually give to a recruit that is starting out in the police? And the first one would be you must have a hobby, you must have work-life balance, you must have a boundary between work and home, full stop. End of story. I see a lot of young cops now that are so big on these social media accounts and running their own social media accounts and policey stuff outside of work. They're living in the job all the time.

Speaker 2: 1:03:01

They don't realize today how much damage they're actually doing to their own presence in life, which talks about your posts. They're not present anymore because they're worrying about oh, who's posted, oh, I've got to share that, oh, I've got to share this and I've got to do that, and it's no good at all. It really doesn't. Where can people find you, alana? I mean, I know I did and I have you on alert. So when you post, I know because I love it.

Speaker 1: 1:03:26

Yeah, amazing People can follow the police. Social worker on Instagram. That's my account. You can Google my name, Alana Russell Therapy, or come up with my website if you want to read more about some of the things that I do and the way that I work. Yeah, so they're the two main places to contact me.

Speaker 2: 1:03:41

Both of those will be in the show notes. I will put the link to Alana's Instagram. I highly recommend that people follow it because it does it's going to smack you a couple of times. It has me. It will smack you. It'll smack you a couple of times.

Speaker 2: 1:03:56

I'm out there offending everyone. No, no, no, no. What I'm saying is, if it hurts you, it's talking to you, and I think that's what people need to understand. So it's not about offending people. It's about people going oh, that's me, you know, like looking in the mirror, like I can see that. But, as I said and I've gone back to it again today, but the post today it did resonate because we don't realize just how much we lose ourselves over the journey with what we're doing and we need to come back. And this is where we, as the shift worker, need to listen to our partners at home. They're not just being ball breakers, they're actually observing change and we need to get help around that change, to make big change in our life, because it's causing us all sorts of problems. Anything else.

Speaker 1: 1:04:43

And you said for yourself that it crept up right, that it's not something that you had the insight. When you're in it, you can't see it, and that's a really powerful takeaway. If anyone's listening to this key message, those other people that are reflecting those things back to you yeah, there's a lot to it. They see things differently. We have black spots and blind spots when we're looking at our own behaviors and the things that we do.

Speaker 2: 1:05:05

Yeah spots, when we're looking at our own behaviors and the things that we do. Yeah, and it hurts when people tell us, alana, it does. It really hurts when people tell you and you don't want to hear it. But when two or three people start to tell you, you start to, oh, hang on. But you still have to get there yourself.

Speaker 2: 1:05:18

But one of the things that I learned, as you said, it's a good takeaway today it will creep up on you, it will creep and creep and creep into your life. Like you said, if you're walking into cafes and you're sitting against the back wall and watching the door, it's caught up to you. It's already caught up to you. If you can't sit with your back to the door, it's caught up with you, because that's just what we do. We don't realize how hypervigilant we have become. That's one of the worst things I want to say. Thank you so much for sharing your insights with us today, and people will go on and continue to get your insights here.

Speaker 2: 1:05:52

Now I do have, because I'm so wealthy. What I do is every guest that comes onto the podcast. If I was to buy you or build you a holiday house anywhere in the world that you've got to live in it for six months of the year. Now, alana, I'll tell you this you don't have to take your husband and kids. You can just go there for six months or you can take them. You can take them if you want. It's totally up to you. If your husband's going to listen to this podcast and he's going to say you better be taking me, where am I buying it? Or building the home for you?

Speaker 1: 1:06:22

He'll probably be working, even if I got offered a cabin somewhere.

Speaker 2: 1:06:26

Don't you dare say that. But where am I buying and building this home for you?

Speaker 1: 1:06:30

Yeah, so I think I would go for an off-grid cabin somewhere in Canada. Oh yes, I follow this account on Instagram. It's called Cabinland and they build these amazing little cabins.

Speaker 2: 1:06:41

You've been to Canada? No, I haven't, oh my Lord. We went to Canada last year. It's unbelievable. It's British Columbia and some of the areas around it just absolutely phenomenal. But do yourself a favor when the kids are older, take them for a drive through Canada. You will not regret it. It's fantastic.

Speaker 1: 1:07:00

Thank you.

Speaker 2: 1:07:01

I will put the links to you in the show notes. I'm also going to put the book Men Are From Mars, Women Are From Venus. I will highly recommend to people that they go and have a look at your highlights of what you recommend as books and resources for people to go and do. And I want to say, on behalf of all of us, thank you so much for coming on the podcast.

Speaker 1: 1:07:19

Thank you so much for having me. I loved this. I hope that it was helpful.

Speaker 2: 1:07:30

And there you have it. That's Alana Russell, fantastic. As you can see, it's challenging, and it's clearly challenging in relationships where you have first responders, where one's a shift worker, one's at home, and it gets even more challenging and I know this it's more challenging when you're both first responders and you're both shift workers, which is quite common as well. You've heard what Alana said about putting simple strategies in place and having an open line of communication. I think one of the most important takeaways from the podcast for us to note and we had quite an extensive conversation afterwards is to not make your whole job your identity and to literally continue to make sure that you understand home is home, work is work, and put those boundaries in place and work out what it is that you value most of all. Don't lose sight of either. They're both very, very important, but they've got to both be kept separate, and having those strategies and tools in place and understanding your partner to work through is the secret, and you've heard Alana's talked all about that today.

Speaker 2: 1:08:28

I hope you got something out of the podcast today. Please go over and give Alana a follow on the social media. The links are in the show notes. All you've got to do is click them and then you can hit follow and I would suggest you go over, because there's a lot there that I've identified with, as you heard me talk about in the podcast, that particular post. We don't realize as first responders just how much we lose ourselves until we're out and we look back and then we realize just how far gone we were without realizing. So listen to those partners. Listen to them, because what might seem like ball-breaking is actually maybe them flagging with you that you need some support or some help to work through some things.

Speaker 2: 1:09:06

Anyway, please, if you've got anything out of the podcast, give it a rating and review. I would sincerely appreciate it. Share it with somebody who you feel might be able to use it or would benefit from it. Be really, really good and I will definitely catch you on the next episode. Thanks for listening. Thank you for listening. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe so you get notified whenever a new episode is released. It would also be ever so helpful if you could leave a rating and review on the app you're currently listening on. If you want to know more about me or work with me, you can go to ahealthyshiftcom. I'll catch you on the next one.