Speaker 1: 1:35

Roger's here with you. Roger Sutherland, it's called a healthy shift. We talk all things, but just so you know, roger, a veteran law enforcement officer four decades how many Four decades as a police person. He did a great job. He's our special guest in studio. Here we go Now. First we've got to do our breathing exercises. Just share with the listener your breathing exercises, the regime so we breathe in through the nose.

Speaker 3: 2:14

In through the nose for a count of four. Holding it, holding the breath. Just breathe in through the nose and then breathe out through purse lips for the count of four. Holding it, holding the breath? No, just breathe in through the nose and then breathe out through pursed lips for the count of eight. Ready Right In, two, three, four out. Two, three, four. What sort of lips? Pursed lips, hello, there, that's what we want, pursed lips. So right, okay, so.

Speaker 1: 2:42

That's what we want. Pursed lips, so right, thank you. So up we go oh nice.

Speaker 3: 2:48

It just calms you nice and relaxes you. What it does is it informs our autonomic nervous system that we are safe and calm because, believe it or not, it's our breathing that actually notifies our body whether we're okay or not. It's not the other way around, which a lot of people think. It is that we breathe rapidly because we are stressed. But it's the one function in the body that we can actually physically control our breath, but we forget how to breathe. So what we do is, if we are feeling stressed, anxious, or we are lying in bed wanting to sleep, breathe in for four through the nose.

Speaker 1: 3:23

It definitely works, since you told me about this some weeks ago.

Speaker 3: 3:26

Always through the nose and then out through the mouth, gently and slowly, low and slow. Oh geez, it makes such a big difference, Big difference.

Speaker 1: 3:34

Would people like Gout Gout what a result. That was last night Amazing, fantastic. Coming up later. You've got this amazing uh situation where um, he, presumably athletes like that. They know how to do that. That would be part of their training.

Speaker 3: 3:49

Presumably they actually do breath work to now. This is hard to explain, but they actually do breath work to learn to make sure that their body is actually functioning and utilizing the CO2 in the body properly, because it's not about oxygen. You know how you were told by mum go outside and get some fresh air. It's actually about how your body utilizes the CO2, which is the carbon dioxide in our body, and the more efficient that it is at handling the CO2, the better we perform. And we need a slow breath rate. A lot of people over-breathe. We need to be down to about 12 breaths per minute.

Speaker 1: 4:29

You're out of the job now just over 12 months. Do you reckon you feel better for many people that have gone into that retirement after a long-serving career, whatever it might be, and after a long serving career, whatever it might be, and going to the idea of it's okay to move on from, in your case, the past 40 years as an officer?

Speaker 3: 4:46

Yeah, I really struggled with it to start off with, and I know I struggled in the last few years while I was still sworn until I was retired ill health. I was not in a very good place. I was in a very, very poor place, but I've done an awful lot of work.

Speaker 1: 5:00

What were the symptoms of that?

Speaker 3: 5:01

Can you share. Anxiety was terrible. I went from 30, well, 38 years of working in the police as a supervisor as well, because I was a sergeant as a supervisor to freaking out when I saw a police car in this state Freaking out. When I saw a police car in this state Freaking out. When I saw a police car as in, very anxious. So you saw the police car, yeah, my heart rate would go up. I would be anxious. What do they want? What are they doing? Are they going to stop me? I was terrible. Are they going to be okay? Are they going to be okay with me? Can I trust them? Because I was burnt bad by people I trusted Okay, and so it wasn't the impacts I'm happy to talk about it now but it wasn't the impacts of the actual job and the things that I witnessed and saw and did in my time in the job. It was the betrayal from the management.

Speaker 1: 5:55

So it was management. It wasn't people necessarily with whom you worked.

Speaker 3: 5:58

Yeah, it was, it wasn't people necessarily with whom you worked. Yeah, it was A little bit, but it was the people. I lost trust for the people that I was working with. But it was absolutely and this is one of the biggest problems that VicPol have today and it's not just VicPol, it's policing worldwide that the rank and file don't trust management anymore. They're micromanaged instead of being able to get on and do the job.

Speaker 3: 6:22

And as a result of an incident, when an incident actually occurs, it's how it's managed afterwards is the biggest issue that we have today. So I've been able to put time between you know, if you keep touching the fire, if you burn your hand on the fire and you keep putting your hand on the fire, you're to keep getting burnt sooner or later. You have to step back where you can't touch it. Stepping out of Vicpole was actually what I had to do to stop touching the fire and that started to put space between me and the job and I was able to. Then you know, like the further away you go from a relationship, the better better the relationship was. You know, like in the time.

Speaker 1: 7:03

That's a great point, isn't it?

Speaker 3: 7:04

And so true, it is very, very true that we, you know, when we break up from a relationship it's really nasty, but in 12 months time you look back on it, you think, well, it wasn't really that bad. It wasn't that bad, you know, but it was, but you was, you forget, whereas now I'm in a position where that's part of the human, that's part of the general human condition.

Speaker 1: 7:24

Presumably, roger, where you want to find resolution, wherever it is.

Speaker 3: 7:29

Yes, of course, and I've searched. I've had to do a lot of work on myself, I've had to really work hard, but I honestly and sincerely believe that if anybody ever gets the opportunity to go or do anyone that's struggling, go and do breathwork facilitation properly, learn from people.

Speaker 1: 7:47

Where do?

Speaker 3: 7:47

you go to do that? Well, I went and did it with Infinity, which are a mob in Queensland. I'm now a breathwork facilitator so people can come to me if they wanted to reach out to me through the website. I'm now a breathwork facilitator and I can help people to learn how to breathe properly, to assess them properly and write a program for them properly to learn how to breathe. So if I could just explain this quickly Please, in the middle is our socially accepted zone, where we are, where we are comfortable.

Speaker 3: 8:18

We are quite happy. But then we can go into hypovigilance. We can be hypervigilant. We can go hypervigilant. So hypovigilant is when we are flat, can't get going. When someone's really depressed and feels awful, we can utilize the breath to bring us up into that green zone in the middle. But if someone is also hypervigilant, which is most people, because we're so highly stimulated today by social media, by everything that's going on in the world today, like goodness me, we've had a horrendous last month or so on social media. So much conflicting bias with what's going on and conflicting information with what we're actually seeing. It creates anxiety Now that stress. But we can control that with our breath by just literally sitting there, quietly putting it away, and just breathing in through the nose for a count of four and then breathing out through the mouth for even a count of six, which you can be here at three or four o'clock every morning.

Speaker 3: 9:20

Yes.

Speaker 1: 9:20

Be really good.

Speaker 3: 9:22

But honestly, Tony, it makes such a huge, enormous difference. Because we have to close that loop, the stress happens and this is why police officers and first responders get so stressed and end up with PTSD because they don't close those loops.

Speaker 1: 9:39

One of the things we're going to talk about when we come back is the idea of opinion, and I mentioned to Dennis. Given everything that's happening in the world, particularly, I think, let's go say, since COVID, where it seems that many have opinions, that many of us including us, of course where you have these opinions that tend to inflame or people become inflamed. It's become very divisive, very divisive, just because you hold a particular thought. Yes, I agree with that. And I can't remember a time as an adult where we've had that previously.

Speaker 3: 11:33

COVID did this. Yeah, COVID did this to a lot of people worldwide.

Speaker 1: 11:37

No doubt Is there an answer as to how we turn that around, how we turn that ship around. At this stage we might look at that. 133693. Come and join us wherever you are right across Australia. Good people at 5AA in Adelaide, hello to you. 6pr in Perth. The Ace Radio Network at 3AW here in Melbourne Great working. 3aw here in Melbourne, great to have your company. I'm Tony McManus. Roger is here.

Speaker 1: 11:56

Roger Sutherland is a former police officer and runs a little business called Shift Work. It's all about shift work. We talk about other things when he's in the studio with us these days. 1-336-93. It is Australia Overnight. Good morning, roger Sutherland. I'm Tony McManus for Australia. Overnight Nice, sutherland. I'm Tony McManus for Australia. Overnight Nice to have your company wherever you are right across Australia. 1-double-3-6-9-3, 0-4-double-7-6-9-3-6-9-3 for the massages For our great friends in WA. 1-double-3-8-8-2. We'll get back to those. We'll get to the calls in just a moment. It's interesting the idea about that thing around opinion and whether or not. How do we, as you say, how do we turn that around? How do we change that post-COVID dilemma that many find themselves in?

Speaker 3: 12:53

I don't know. I think one of the things that I did know I don't think there is, I don't think there is. Well, I'm not sure. I think social media is doing a lot of damage, a lot of damage, and I'll tell you what my thoughts are on that. People are consumed by it, though. Yep, but prior to COVID, you couldn't talk religion or politics because it was very divisive.

Speaker 2: 13:13

Or sex.

Speaker 3: 13:15

Well, yeah, but those were the three topics, but now it's politics, religion, well, sex and COVID. You can't talk about COVID because it's so divisive. So many people are, you know, you might raise it with someone and it's no, that's rubbish, it's just a cold. Or some people will say what you can't be, serious Science tells us. And, and it became very divisive.

Speaker 1: 13:34

But that's the same thing, though, really, with what's happening in the world of the environment. How are we protecting the environment? Are we doing enough? And everybody has a view about that, and none of whom, for the most part, are in any way scientists.

Speaker 3: 13:53

No, but I'll tell you why it happens the way it happens now because of the algorithm of social media. So what happens is Tony McManus jumps on his phone and he's talking to people in relation to his opinion and what he sees and how he sees it. So, therefore, you are being fed on your social media. Now, I'm not saying that you are on Facebook, Instagram, X or whatever, but if you are, then you are being fed to feed your confirmation bias in relation to that. So, therefore, you go extreme in that line and you believe that your opinion is right.

Speaker 3: 14:23

Now Roger, on the other hand, is looking at the other side, because he strongly believes in the other side. So what he's doing is he is actually going down that line. So when Tony and Roger come to the table and I offer my opinion, you then stand up and rant and rave and go. You've got no idea what you're talking about. Roger, because of and I say no, Tony, you haven't considered this and then we end up in an over. That never used to happen because there was no social media and people were making proper, informed choices around those sort of things, Whereas now social media just gives us such confirmation bias.

Speaker 1: 15:03

One of the things that came up in the program yesterday is and it was people will watch the ABC, won't probably be watching Sky News. No, People that are watching Sky News for the news are unlikely to move to the ABC.

Speaker 3: 15:12

And they're direct opposites, aren't they?

Speaker 1: 15:14

Well, are they? Or are they just providing information?

Speaker 3: 15:19

Well, no, yeah, I think they've all got their own agendas with what they push and I think if you watch Sky News, there's a fair line that they take. If you watch the ABC, there's a fair line that they take in commercial. And I think I just would warn people to be very critical of what you're actually seeing and hearing and form your own opinions and ask questions.

Speaker 1: 15:45

I'm getting lots of texts, none of which make any sense. Somebody says, please read Thank you. Not too sure what that means. Murdoch and Fox News. Biased opinion doesn't help either, says another. Thank you, Jim. Can you please just let the opening song play. Don't interrupt it. Thank you very much, I'm sorry. Sue Shouldn't do that Excellent. Len hello, come and join us. 133693. Chris Brodie morning.

Speaker 4: 16:08

Hello, tony and Roger Morning.

Speaker 1: 16:10

Chris Roger.

Speaker 4: 16:10

I've been regrouping for 21 years and it would be good one day to sort of backtrack. It's not a good idea to move, pull down all the high housing commission, high-rise housing. Move people in the suburbs because you know with every homeowner who's worked hard and been successful, there is a stigma that they don't want people on welfare and housing commission amongst the community. So you could be doing the right, responsible things, be neat and clean, you're presentable, but you're there on the wrong foot the day you move in because people can in pockets not all homeowners, I'm really working with all parts of the community, regardless of their situation or low density. In fact, like I have, they can use the law to their advantage. We don't want these so and so's.

Speaker 4: 16:53

I was the only housing commission unit in the block that probably owned units and on welfare, which I hate that dirty word that people use, because they use it with a stigma behind it and they can use the Lord's advantage. Oh, the guy he's got a psychotic, he's not taking his medication. Oh, I was sitting down in my prison room 21 years ago. In the previous I was only watching TV and sadly it may come over because I may see too much that's going on. That could get people in a lot of trouble.

Speaker 1: 17:19

Sorry, you said you might see things, did you say?

Speaker 4: 17:23

Yeah, I may see things that could get people in trouble and I don't want to talk about it, I don't want to communicate with authorities. I just keep my own business and I say, oh, this guy's seen too much, that guy's got mental Ring the police up. Oh, this guy's going off his deep end.

Speaker 1: 17:39

Yeah, Chris, there's a lot of that. I agree with you. There's some challenges around that and you're going back to what you were saying, roger, about mental health issues in the community, and we know that that is definitely the case.

Speaker 3: 17:48

Oh, the health system is absolutely shot to bits. I I communicate with nurses all the time. I communicate with paramedics all the time. Um, the paramedics. I just feel if the truth, if someone really dug into it and really had a look at the issues around paramedics, um, and the issues with ambulance, victoria, ambulance, queensland, ambulance everywhere and the ramping at hospitals is outrageous. I have my own opinion on a lot of it and here we go. The opinion, yeah, thoughts, well, thoughts. You take out the word opinion.

Speaker 3: 18:24

I think we've brought too many people into the country.

Speaker 1: 18:27

So it's a migration issue.

Speaker 3: 18:29

I think a lot of our problems are migration issues full stop, and I think we need to either slow it right down or stop it for a period of time and let the infrastructure catch up, because it can't. We've got so many people in here that we go to hospitals and we, the Australians, can't get into the hospitals or can't get to see people because of the influx of millions of people that are coming into this country, that are taking up. Now what's the alternative? I don't know, and I think what Chris was just saying as well is you know, you're allowing people from these high-risers out into the community. We've got no right to stop them from doing that, like, if they want to do that. That's one thing, but we've got to be very careful that we don't stereotype as well. I know we talk about and there's no secret, we talk about the Africans and the African gangs here. Jeez, there's some good African people around, like there's some fantastic African people, but that doesn't hit the front pages of the newspaper.

Speaker 1: 19:25

No, it does not, and therein lies part of the problem.

Speaker 3: 19:27

But when you get on a train and you see a couple of young African boys get on a train, we automatically are in that defence mechanism of oh, and that's our own confirmation bias and it's stereotyping, whereas they could be really good kids. And if someone I watched a couple of African boys on a train a while ago that an older lady nearly fell and one of the kids helped her and helped her back into a seat People don't see that. That's not reported on the front page of the paper, but they're stereotyped and I guarantee to you that those two boys walking around wearing their Jordans and their Jordan runners and their tracksuits or whatever they're wearing, looking a million dollars, people would look at them and think, oh, you're Africans, you're part of the problem. But they weren't.

Speaker 1: 20:11

And we've got to be careful. And, roger, you can see it on TV show and you can see it in real life. If you Be careful, roger, you can see it on TV show and you can see it in real life. You're in the United States and America. Right through the 60s, oh yeah, there was an inclination of law enforcement to have this bias already about African-Americans.

Speaker 3: 20:27

I think you probably find that there's still a fairly hefty bias there as well, which is addressed in a lot of TV shows as well. Even a TV show. I'm watching the Rookie at the moment and I can't stand it. Melissa loves it, but I watch it and I just think, oh God, you've got to be kidding. But I think that's just a cop watching a cop show. It's like a nurse watching Grey's Anatomy, going what it's not quite like that.

Speaker 3: 20:53

It's not quite like that, but I think the thing is they've got mixed marriages in this show. You know what I mean.

Speaker 1: 21:01

They have a mixed marriage In the TV show.

Speaker 3: 21:02

In the TV show. They've got mixed marriages and they've got the Hispanic and the Caucasian, and then they have the black chief and then dealing with issues of racism within the policing and things like that. So they're still addressing this, very much so in America, and you can't say that we aren't a racist society here with what's going on at the moment.

Speaker 1: 21:26

It's a tricky thing.

Speaker 1: 21:28

It's very tricky it is. We'll do this. Come back to your calls, come and join us Anything you'd like to share on the program. 133693. The idea of whether it be a mental health issue, whether it be things that you look and read and see and absorb, how much, if any, of social media does it play in your world and that opinion? What do you call it? Bias, opinion, bias, confirmation, bias, confirmation, bias. Is it a thing for you and why? How do you feel about it? 133693 for Australia Overnight. Hello there, the dreadful murder of Charlie Kirk in America is worthwhile having a look at because A it was a murder, yep, a public murder Because of, presumably, opinions that he held Correct, yep. So. And yet, as somebody pointed out in the program to me this morning, who said have you listened to him? Have you heard what he has to say? And I had to admit, up until his murder I'd not been familiar with him.

Speaker 3: 22:32

Right, I want to. Can I just make a point on this? I've I've followed Charlie Kirk for a few years, right? So I'm well and truly aware of who Charlie Kirk is on social media. I've followed him for a few years and I can categorically say that majority of the people here in the media and that that when he was murdered or assassinated Were hearing about him for the first time.

Speaker 3: 22:56

We're hearing about him for the first time, and then they were being fed snippets of information of things that Charlie had actually said, which infuriated me because it's so out of context with everything that was being done. Several callers said that yesterday morning. A lot of people have said oh yeah, but he said this and that's true. He did say this, right, but in the whole context of a whole answer, and the one thing that I will always have given Charlie is he put himself on the table on the chair, handed the microphone to someone and said debate me, change my mind, and I think all kudos to him for that. He comes from a position of where he's got the control of it, obviously, but he was prepared to obey and there's some, I will say some beautiful exchanges between Charlie Kirk and a lot of people in the US and the reason why he was so popular with a lot of the universities and going into these unis was he wanted to educate people to be critical thinkers and not just think one way.

Speaker 3: 23:59

And I think in the media, a lot of people in particular were saying I don't necessarily agree with a lot of what charlie said, but a murder is a murder and he should never have been. What do you mean? You don't necessarily agree a lot, you haven't. You don't even know what he said. A lot of what he said, and I think that was the default stance from a lot of people to turn around and say, oh, I didn't agree with a lot of what he said, okay, so tell me what you didn't agree with. Okay, because, oh, there was the situation where he said, oh, the right to bear arms is worth a couple of deaths. That is such a misquote, and I mean such a misquote from him, and I've got the full answer. It's not quite what he said. It's not what he said no, sandra, good morning.

Speaker 5: 24:45

Good morning. I have a question, please. Our grandchildren, great-grandies, came down last weekend and we went over to the club, which is in New South Wales, and when I went in sorry, I said, oh, what's? No, we haven't got a band since COVID. And then they used to have, or they had a little creche room where one of the staff monitored the smaller children. So no, not since COVID. The cafe coffee shops here used to open until five, six, now it's two. Why do we still carry on as if it's COVID? Why can't we go back to what it was?

Speaker 3: 25:27

No, I think it's because it's changed. It's like working from home for a lot of people, and look how cashless we've become. Since COVID as well, everything's tapped. Afterpay came in through COVID. I know a lot of people that made a lot of money out of Afterpay through COVID, because before COVID, afterpay was not really very big.

Speaker 1: 25:50

So what do we do, sandra? It's a great call. Thank you very much, didn't we? In the days in my day if I wanted to buy something really special, it was about lay-by. I don't think anybody does lay-by anymore.

Speaker 3: 26:02

No, it's after pay now because it's online. You see, lay-by meant that you never got the item until you'd made your payments. They put it in the storeroom and then you would make your payments and once you made your final payment, you'd finally get the item, and I did the same thing. Now it's afterpay. You get it straight away and then you're paying it off in four installments, and that became massive during COVID. I can tell you that there was a lot of people that made a lot of money on their stocks through COVID because it escalated, because people were literally shopping online for everything and after paying, it got people in a lot of trouble, a lot of financial trouble.

Speaker 1: 26:45

Yeah well, and we know about debt. Debt can debilitate in this state.

Speaker 3: 26:51

Yeah, it does.

Speaker 1: 26:52

You can look at debt that we all carry, or certainly in Australia and certainly in the state of Victoria. 133693, come and join us. Plenty of room on the board, you'll get through straight away. 133693, come and join us. Plenty of room on the board, you'll get through straight away. 133693. The American situation over there again, because of this, presumably remains very divisive and then, with the President coming out and making the remarks that he makes, that just continues to antagonise.

Speaker 3: 27:19

Well, you see what it does? It does is, yeah, it perpetuates it, doesn't it? Because charlie was always seen like as he wanted to make america great again, right? So?

Speaker 2: 27:28

and it was part of that was trump's.

Speaker 3: 27:30

That was trump's catch cry and and he was seen as a trump a lot and he was. He was a trump a lot and there's no doubt about it, because he believed in what he was doing. And I think the is we have to be careful of is everybody Trump fuels into it and Trump's divisive in himself in this country, very, very divisive. And I think we get certain parts of the media, we get bits and pieces and we just form our own opinions. So anyone that aligns with Trump, like Elon Musk, people like that we have big problems with. Yeah, true Musk, people like that we have big problems with.

Speaker 1: 28:02

Yeah, true, jim, hello. Yes, jim, go ahead. Good morning, jim, we'll come back to you. Bill. Hello to you in Glen Waverley, good morning. How are you going Really well. You wanted to say good morning to you. Is that me? Is your name Bill?

Speaker 7: 28:17

Look, I don't know much about Charlie Kirk and everything, but look, my heart goes out to the 45,000 people a year gunned down in the US. All the children shot down in the schools, churches and everything else Agreed. He is just one of the people that advocate guns in America.

Speaker 3: 28:44

But majority of America don't. It's the Second Amendment.

Speaker 7: 28:49

It's all this rubbish mate, you can talk about rubbish. Look what about all the little children being gunned down in schools and churches, they're all forgotten.

Speaker 1: 29:00

And they're talking about one guy.

Speaker 7: 29:01

I don't know that they are. I totally agree. They're all forgotten. No, they're not, and they're talking about one guy.

Speaker 1: 29:02

I don't know that they are forgotten, bill, in fairness, they're not forgotten, for God's sake. But I think he also makes the point. Did he not right to bear arms? Then that's what the cost is.

Speaker 3: 29:31

And that is out of context, because what he was actually saying was that there's 50,000 deaths a year in the US from motor vehicle accidents and we don't ban driving and injury too, and the same in Australia and injury and everything else.

Speaker 3: 29:47

So not only are there the deaths and I want to be quite clear to Bill as well I certainly don't condone carrying firearms, and I don't ever, because a firearm's only got one purpose and that's to kill. There's no other purpose for a firearm at all. Yeah, and so I would ban firearms full stop, and that's my stand on that 133693.

Speaker 1: 30:10

Let's go to Tony. Hello Tony.

Speaker 2: 30:14

Good evening actually Hi.

Speaker 8: 30:17

You're talking about that guy in the US that got shot.

Speaker 2: 30:19

Yeah, with the opinions that he used to.

Speaker 8: 30:25

His opinions were about the transgender or gay people and stuff like that, wasn't it?

Speaker 3: 30:30

Yes, that was one of the opinions of a whole range of things that he said, but let's be careful he's not taken out of context with a lot of what he said as well. There's been some really good ones.

Speaker 8: 30:43

Yeah, I realise that it's just like you know it's like when people talk about politics, you better off just keeping it to yourself.

Speaker 3: 30:51

That's so true, and this is the point. This is the exact point that Tony and I were just saying as well. With confirmation bias, you raise it and everyone is so anti-Labour, so anti-Giacinto Rella, but more than half of the people in society in our state have voted her back in or the party back in, so we have to accept that that's it. That's a democratic society.

Speaker 1: 31:19

I got slammed again yesterday because I said well, that's the democracy, that's a democratic society. I got slammed again yesterday because I said well, that's the democracy, that's how democracy works, that's right. It's not the perfect system. No, it's not but which other system?

Speaker 3: 31:29

would you replace it with? Well, someone tell me.

Speaker 1: 31:32

What system would you replace it with? And no one can.

Speaker 3: 31:34

No, they can't. No one's got the answer. It's like this is what I say. We've got our protesters in the city every Sunday. Why aren't they yelling out the solutions?

Speaker 1: 31:43

Yeah, 133693. We've got some more calls coming. Where are we going at this stage? We'll do a break. You need to do a break. We will do that. Thank you, jackson. Younger Jackson does a great job behind the desk there, doesn't he?

Speaker 3: 31:55

The other side of the glass.

Speaker 1: 31:57

He's on the phone. We'll get to these calls. The other side 1-336-93-Australia-Overnight. Come and join us wherever you are. Nice to have your company. I'm Tony McManus. The program to which you are now listening across Australia is Australia Overnight 3AW here in Melbourne, 5aa in Adelaide and 6PR in Perth in the Ace Radio Network.

Speaker 2: 32:23

It's food for thought. Some of the things we talk about with Roger, we don't know really. We don't plan anything, do we? No, we just chat. Artie, you wanted to say Good morning Tony Mack, Roger and Action Jackson. Now, Roger, you were talking about they made a lot of money in COVID. Do you remember when a cup of coffee? It was normally $3.50 or $5.00. It went up to $15.00, including the flowers of the forest, from $5 to $7, they went up to $85. Yep.

Speaker 3: 32:43

Yeah, they did. What for a coffee?

Speaker 5: 32:46

No, the flowers, the coffee's outrageous.

Speaker 3: 32:50

It got expensive, and I think one of the biggest problems that we've got with that now is as well is the fees, because everyone's got to tap. Now in those places they tap and the coffee shops are passing the fees back, so the coffees are getting more expensive.

Speaker 1: 33:03

So nobody can sort of tell me why that is. I saw a sign somewhere over the weekend that said oh, this is a bank charge, that's right. So if you're buying a coffee and let's say it's going to be $5.60, for example, and it comes out $5.70. Yeah, and you think well, why didn't you just say the coffee's $5.70?

Speaker 3: 33:22

Yeah, well, that's right. Well, it's like going. I guess it's the same as here GST is included in everything when you buy it on the shelf, whereas when you go to the US you think, oh, this is cheap until you get to the register and then you've got to pay the tax on top of it.

Speaker 1: 33:35

Yeah, Jimmy, in Warrnambool we've got you. Good morning.

Speaker 8: 33:38

Yeah, morning Tom and. Roger, I don't know what you said, but a couple of things you said before about when the pandemic and that.

Speaker 3: 33:48

Yep.

Speaker 8: 33:51

And how the crime business has gone up even from supermarkets. They had on the ABC the other week on the business show. They had on the ABC the other week on the business show they featured the bloke who runs Richie's.

Speaker 1: 34:07

IGA Yep yes.

Speaker 8: 34:13

Who's thrown his hands in the air and said this just can't go on. Yeah, he's talking about closing six stores when the lease has come up if things don't improve. But what I'm trying to get at is you were talking about before, about the social media things, misinformation and all that.

Speaker 3: 34:26

Yes.

Speaker 8: 34:27

I just want to make a point that just dawned on me the other day after seeing that bloke who runs the Richies and the woman who runs the managers at Bunnings one and we've all seen the films. It's not just you, it's middle-aged men and men in their 20s and that hole in knives and machetes and all that and just walking out with stuff, right, yep, I reckon some of that could be caused by, you know, when prices went right up in the pandemic and that, for whatever reasons various reasons Remember, the politicians and other commentators were running around blaming the retailers, especially Woolworths. Now I've just got a feeling that that's a contribution factor to people just saying well, bugger them, we're just going to go and take it. They're robbing us, we'll rob them.

Speaker 1: 35:12

Yeah, look, I think there's probably some of that. I don't know whether that drives the incentive to go and commit theft. Does it or does it? What's your experience? No, I don't think so.

Speaker 3: 35:21

I don't think I know. We've lost control, we've completely lost control now there's no consequence On radio here in Melbourne for our interstate listeners. Tom Elliott this morning did you hear the sheriff from Florida? Yeah, I'll play the audio to you Snoozing.

Speaker 1: 35:43

He was talking. Those of us who work overnight snooze. Yeah, I know.

Speaker 3: 35:48

Yeah, I know, but I was actually listening to Tom today just after the 9 o'clock. He promoted it from the time he came on and I've seen this video before, but it's about this If you run from the police, you're going to go to jail tired because we're going to catch you and we're going to put you in jail. And if you throw a brick at us, well, we're going to contact your parents as to where abouts to pick up your remains because we're going to shoot you. And if you do this and if you do that and Tom's going, I think this is a good idea. We should try it here, because we've clearly what we're doing is not working and I think one of the things that we've got to really look at, but we don't want to shoot children, surely?

Speaker 3: 36:22

No? No, that was the backlash from it as well. That was absolutely the backlash. The point there was a whole range of things that he spoke not Tom the sheriff spoke about that was making it quite clear that he supports his officers, he supports everybody, but he will not tolerate the public doing what they're doing, and drew a clear line in the sand.

Speaker 1: 36:45

Geoff good morning. Thanks for waiting Hi.

Speaker 6: 36:48

Good morning gentlemen. Hey look, I just wanted to touch base on you on the comment about guns are only made for killing. Well, there'd be a lot of small-bore shooters and rifle shooters that train every day, that go to the Olympics, that shoot cards all the time and don't even give a thought about going hunting. And you know really whether or not the initial invention of the gun was for armies and self-defense. Well, one can only look at history to really discover that.

Speaker 3: 37:34

Geoff, you made a great point. It's a great point and as I said it, I thought to myself what about the sporting shooters? And it's a very valid point, but by the same token, it leaves guns in our society. Now I know sporting shooters go and they shoot targets and things like that, but these guns are still there, although a lot of sporting firearms I show my ignorance here, but a lot of sporting firearms are not adapted to be able to carry around in the street and shoot anyway. They're very different, but they're still guns. They're still guns and they're still capable of causing damage or being fanned. People breaking into houses, you know, committing burglaries or assaulting people taking those firearms off them that are in society. But it's a valid point and I take your point there, geoff, that, yeah, they're not only designed to kill, because they do kill cardboards as well.

Speaker 1: 38:24

They kill cardboards. That's right. I did some many, many years ago. Gee, if you master that skill, it's not as easy as it looks.

Speaker 3: 38:35

It's an extraordinary thing to do. It is extremely difficult, especially with a handgun. It's extremely difficult to be accurate with a handgun.

Speaker 1: 38:42

More the other side, australia, overnight. Jimmy, thank you for all those comments. Thank you on the text line People going to meltdown on the text line. Last week or the week before, we had a couple of mornings where we just turned off the text, oh really. And then got hammered the next morning when we turned the tax line back on. Yeah, so you can't win really. No, you can't, charlie Kirk, a little like Jordan Peterson perhaps someone is saying in terms of I think Jordan is slightly different. I think, from memory, jordan Peterson.

Speaker 3: 39:16

Well, I don't know Jordan Peterson and you don't really know Charlie Kirk.

Speaker 1: 39:18

Yeah, there he is, so it makes it really difficult to comment on that and it would only be an opinion. That's right, Thank you Exactly. Target practice did emerge so that shooters were more effective in downing animals and humans. Text ending in 580. Target practice yeah.

Speaker 3: 39:37

Did you do much of that in training? Only every six months when I had to. But I will say this there's a lot around at the moment that the police are not training. They're just standing on a line shooting a target. They're not actually training for survival in the wild. This has come out of the Paul Punker event as well. Are they training for that?

Speaker 1: 39:59

We haven't talked about that. We're going to run out of time, obviously, while you're here, except to say How's the vision?

Speaker 3: 40:05

of the footage of these blokes.

Speaker 1: 40:06

Where are they going?

Speaker 3: 40:07

Unreal.

Speaker 1: 40:08

Yeah, incredible. Now you're a Hawthorne supporter, Are you excited?

Speaker 3: 40:11

Oh, I cannot wait for Friday night. I got my preliminary final tickets. I only had to sit there for well, I started it. I started it was 70 minutes all up from the time. I sat in the lounge at 9.30 right up until I got the tickets. Amazing, cannot wait. Go Hawks, so go Hawks, oh go Hawks I think, who wins this game wins the grand final. Well there, you go.

Speaker 1: 40:30

Who wins this game wins the grand final. Thank you, nice to see you. Have a look at ahealthyshiftcom. Ahealthyshiftcom same on Instagram you'll find as well, and the Healthy Shift podcast it's on all platforms, roger Sutherland. Thanks, roger, it's news time Australia overnight.