Speaker 1: 1:39

Sometimes we talk about shift work 133693. If you'd like to jump on board wherever you are, you can also send a text Text line. We love you can just join in anything. Day nine of the search Roger Fair bit to cover off as we go. Good morning, Good morning to you. How are you?

Speaker 2: 1:56

this morning.

Speaker 1: 1:56

It's been a really tricky thing. Nine days and I think people are starting to feel where is this going Now? I'm not expecting you to unveil anything, except based on the great comments you made on this program just a day after it all unfolded, which was reported in the Age. It was taken radio, picked it up nationally. The comments that you made, what are you hearing? What are you hearing, what are you feeling and what's the sentiment for those that still serve or have previously served in the police?

Speaker 2: 2:31

Yeah, we've had a week for it to wash over. Now as well, it hasn't washed over the officers, the members Australia-wide. I'm communicating with a lot around Australia who are really struggling with this, like really, really, and even veterans, people who have retired. It's impacted a lot heavier than what they anticipated that actually would. And I think one of the biggest issues that we have at the moment is there's still absolutely no closure on it at all, like no arrest not been found, not been heard of. There's nothing going on Now. Admittedly, we don't know what the police investigation is handling at the moment and I want to be very clear on that. I'm not representing and I don't know, but I do know one thing the area is rugged up there. I've hiked in the area up there. It's rugged and you've got to remember that this person has had no hesitation in shooting the police at all. So even though we've got the SOG and the military up there in an area, you don't just walk through it kicking pebbles.

Speaker 2: 3:36

Sorry, the Special Operations Group and the military. Once a cop, always a cop, always sorry, it's how we thrive. But you don't just walk along just kicking rocks and are you there and looking down caves. We've got a person here that is quite prepared, clearly quite prepared to shoot. So it's got to be a real tactical operation all the way through. We heard Mike Bush today speak about that. They've turned over over 100 properties up there. That's significant because they've obviously had to do a risk assessment for every single one of those properties, strategise properly around it so that there's no criticism, and then do the entry. And how heartbreaking for them when they do that. No result and then they have to move on to the next one again. It's taking its toll. And then we have the demonstrations in town where the officers from the very office where one of their members has been lost they're dealing with these demonstrations and getting bottles thrown at them and spat on.

Speaker 1: 4:36

That pees off more people, I think, than we know, oh yeah, that's really hurtful.

Speaker 2: 4:41

Yeah, it's terribly hurtful. And you know I would like to have said and I know Tom Elliott was a big advocate for it, let's just call a truce this weekend.

Speaker 1: 4:51

That's Tom Elliott here on 3RW in Melbourne.

Speaker 2: 4:53

Yep, tom Elliott, here on 3RW in Melbourne. So let's just call a truce this weekend. You know, particularly here in in Melbourne, like the other states, whether it affects them or not. I'm not 100% sure. I know the police officers it does. Australia wide officers are touched by this Very, very much. So I communicate with South Australia. I'm communicating with officers as far away as in Perth as well, up in far north Queensland. It's touched everybody horrendously. They've had enough. They want closure on it. Of course the funerals are on Friday and on Monday as well. They've got to face those as well, still with no closure on it at all. It's going to be an extremely, extremely difficult week coming up for the police.

Speaker 1: 5:38

Yeah very much, so Now, do things like that? People read online, which I have, as you well know, real concerns about the theories that pop up online? It surely can't be helpful.

Speaker 2: 6:00

I've been upset by some of the things that I've actually read and had sent to me of the conspiracies that there was no police killed and this was all a big setup to try and sort this person out.

Speaker 1: 6:04

I can't believe who well, we don't know who drives that sort of approach to these issues.

Speaker 2: 6:12

I think. Well, I think again. It's online communities, the keyboard Nazis, the people that have got no idea. I can absolutely assure the public that there's been two police officers murdered, that's it.

Speaker 1: 6:25

Based on your experience. Does that frustrate the investigation?

Speaker 2: 6:30

Well, it causes all sorts of problems because it creates anger and angst. It's not supporting. It's people going? No, you're liars. No, this is not true. I've seen comments. What's really going on up there? What do you mean? What's people going? No, you're liars. No, this is not true. I've seen comments. What's really going on up there? What do you mean? What's really going on up there? What sort of a stupid thing to say is that? What do you mean? What's really going on up there? Why would you question that, as in, this is some great big secret operation that's, I mean seriously, 400 police are up there searching bushland, which is rugged, while these people sleep in bed overnight. These officers that are searching overnight with using equipment, what they're doing? Lugging gear around and we've got to remember this is in Alpine country too. Now we are talking rain, sleet, snow, mud.

Speaker 5: 7:16

It's cold, they're not on a holiday Miserable.

Speaker 2: 7:19

It's miserable and they're not sleeping in their own beds. And we've got to remember as well and this is where I get worked up they're all away from their own families, they're all away from their own loved ones. They've got no children. They're away from their kids, they're away from their wives, husbands. They're all in this. They're not sleeping in a comfortable bed. A lot of them would be napping in trucks or cars or getting those 15 to 20-minute naps. Then it's go time again and they're chronically fatigued and having to focus on what they're doing. They train for this, it's their job. They choose to do that. I absolutely get that, but no one wants to have to do what they're doing at the moment.

Speaker 1: 7:58

Are you in a position to share with us in a situation like this and I'm not too sure that I can remember a similar situation to this in my lifetime, but there may or may not be of this level. So how does management sort of say do we keep going for a week? Do we extend it for another week? At what point do a decision have to be made? That would be a challenge for many in leadership, presumably.

Speaker 2: 8:25

It was reported today that the operation is costing and I say reported in the media right that the operation was costing approximately $200,000 plus a day at the moment.

Speaker 2: 8:35

Conservatively Conservative oh, it would be conservative, no doubt about it, because you've got to remember, it's not only that, but it's the backfill to actually see.

Speaker 2: 8:42

What we've got to remember is it's not only the 400 police that are up in the operation, but those police have come from areas that are going to be backfilled to stations. Now people were saying the other day I read a post the other day from someone saying why is the police station closed on the weekend? I'll tell you why Because there's 400 police up in Pulp Hunker and then we've got demonstrations in the city and there's only so many police officers that can actually cover these things. You can't just you know, you don't just pull an egg off a shelf and put water on it and produce a policeman, you know, and you can send it to these demonstrations. So the problem that we have is the public are not being protected, because these operations and demonstrations are sucking the life out of the resources and you've got to remember there's no extra money. This is all coming out of police budgets and things like that as well.

Speaker 1: 9:30

So is it silly to suggest that baddies are also acutely aware of the limitations that that provides? Does that give them an advantage? An advantage, absolutely it does, and they would be aware that that is the case, well and truly aware.

Speaker 2: 9:43

Be well and truly aware that the police are on their knees at the moment and cashing in on that as well. That's scary. For God's sake, what were people doing, insulting members and raising the murders at the demonstrations? Why would you be doing that?

Speaker 1: 9:59

We'll do this and then we'll take your calls. You might want to have yours, say 133693, wherever you are right around Australia 133693. For Perth 133882. Send a message should you choose to do that 0477 693 693. I attended to about 75 emails yesterday. You can do that as well, Overnights at 3awcomau. Wherever you are around Australia. Hello to you, it's Tony McManus, Australia, Overnight 133693. Anything you would like to raise while the great man is here, that is, Roger Sutherland, who is founder of A Healthy Shift, veteran law enforcement person about 40 years. You've got 40 years. You did, wasn't it Just?

Speaker 2: 10:43

on 40. Exactly 40 years.

Speaker 1: 10:45

40 years and four days and I think when we spoke a fortnight ago, it was two weeks ago, wasn't it? Yes, and you were pretty fired up about everything that was happening then, given that it was one year since you pulled the pin? Yes, does it take 12 months to sort of wind down? Is that historical? Is that usually what happens when you've decided to pull the pin and you start this new life?

Speaker 2: 11:14

A lot of people really struggle with it. I think I was probably lucky because, in fairness and for transparency, I was ill health retired with it. I think I was probably lucky because, in fairness and for transparency, I was ill health retired with PTSD so I was off work for a period of time before so I was able to sort of transition into it before that and it was a preparation for that. So that worked. When I say worked well for me, I wouldn't wish it on anybody but I actually my psychologist said it gave me the opportunity to transition into retirement and just keep going the way, I've gone with it.

Speaker 1: 11:45

And you've done really well G'day, tony. Just pray that they get this monster alive so they can spend life, and no parole Bless our police right across Australia. What happened is devastating. Where would our society be without? Well, certainly, they are our backbone in many, many ways.

Speaker 2: 12:03

Well done, kelly.

Speaker 1: 12:03

That's so true, yeah, very kind of you, let's go Pete welcome.

Speaker 4: 12:08

Hi guys, good morning, how are you going?

Speaker 1: 12:11

You're in the car, so I don't want to lose that line. So just chat away, Pete.

Speaker 4: 12:15

All right, I just want to ask you I've just been from a tactical side this happened a couple of years ago in Queensland with these people who are so-called sovereign people, who don't follow the law and that Just wondering why were these guys the cop guys I'm not saying the way I approached the situation why weren't they more in the tactical side approached the situation? Why weren't they more I mean the tactical side of the coppers going into asking this guy for his warrant instead of, as I heard one of the constables the young guy was in St Kilda office or something and he was up there just on work relief for another person, just wondering why wasn't more more attack wise?

Speaker 4: 13:02

why, like for tactical people, more tactical people going into this with his past history, with not following the law?

Speaker 2: 13:14

It's a great point, and the level of the warrant will obviously be broken down when it comes time. There are different levels of warrant. The first one is basically just a knock on the door. Excuse me, tony Mack, we've got a warrant for your arrest. You better come with us. That's level one. Then the level two might be more tactical and level three is the highest, where you might go with the SOG, the Special Operations Group, or the CERT teams or things like that. To me, to my eye and I'm not involved in it the fact that 10 members went, or 10 officers went, to the address tells you that they'd done their risk assessment. They had certainly assessed what they had. They went with what they had.

Speaker 1: 13:52

You've got to remember it's a regional area and that assessment would have been done on the morning. That would have been done for presumably days, if not weeks, ahead.

Speaker 2: 13:57

Correct, absolutely it would have been, because you don't just rustle up 10 members or 10 police officers in an area like that overnight, you know, in an hour. So there would have been officers there. This is another thing too. We've got to remember that one of those officers that was murdered was actually up there on a week temporary assignment to backfill for another position because somebody was off. And this is the thing with policing at the moment, people are backfilling everywhere to try and fill holes. It's almost like putting the fingers in the dike everywhere trying to block the leaks. You know.

Speaker 2: 14:29

So when this warrant came up and I think one of the saddest things for me, being an experienced and an older member as well, one of the hardest things for me to comprehend would be like neil thompson was. He was supposed to have retired three months beforehand, it was been reported. Yeah, well, one of the hardest things for me to comprehend would be like Neil Thompson was. He was supposed to have retired three months beforehand, it's been reported he decided he would just go on for another three. He was two weeks from retirement. And we can all hear all of us that are police that have got this in their mind could all hear that oh, there's this warrant. And Tomo probably went oh, what the hell, I'll just go and do one more, just one more. Let's go and deal with this bloke or whatever. And that's how the conversation probably went. But the whiteboard would have been done.

Speaker 1: 15:08

The discussions would have been done. Roger, it's hard to imagine, and 10 members, 10 officers have gone.

Speaker 2: 15:14

That's significant for a warrant.

Speaker 1: 15:17

Family in that situation would have presumably was somehow delighted that dad had made a decision to retire after, from all reports, an illustrious career.

Speaker 2: 16:53

Oh, very, very, very popular member. Did you know? I did not know, but you know of. I knew neither of the members. To be fair, I didn't know them at all.

Speaker 1: 17:02

And then, all of a sudden, the world is just crushed. Their world is crushed In a second, in a moment.

Speaker 2: 17:08

In a moment, In a heartbeat. But what we've got to remember as well, Tony, is and I want to make this point very, very clear we lost two members that were murdered. I guarantee to you we will lose at least 20 members out of that job, At least 20.

Speaker 1: 17:28

That's my call.

Speaker 5: 17:29

Mental health issues.

Speaker 2: 17:29

PTSD and health issues, with what they've seen and what they've dealt with. We will. Every shooting. Generally, we lose the officer as well that's been involved in the shooting and people that were involved around that that dealt with that as well, that's been involved in the shooting, and people that were involved around that that dealt with that as well. Paramedics we forget. What about the paramedics that went in as well? What about even people like the SES search people and things like that that are all called in to start off with and help with cordons? It impacts on everybody. I guarantee we'll lose at least 20 members. This is not Hollywood. No, this is serious. This is not Hollywood. No, this is serious. This is not Hollywood. And you've got to remember you could be shot. You don't know where this person is and you would have been as jumpy as all get out up there at the time. It's so brave. The men that are up there and women that are doing this job at the moment are as brave as you can get 133693 if you'd like to have a comment.

Speaker 1: 18:21

Jim, what have you got?

Speaker 5: 18:24

What would you want to add? Good morning Tony, roger and Jackson. Besides the terrible thing that's going on and the terrible exhaustion all those officers and everyone else is going through I know, roger, that you listen to a lot of 3RW's stories a lot, and you've been a police officer for a long time. I just want to ask you if you remember several years ago, when the mobile phones came out and then they introduced big fines for people on mobile phones. They also were saying it's the exact same fine for people on pushbikes, just like the helmets and everything else the same fine. But I also remember them saying back then, when things seemed to be even stricter, that they were saying if you're on a push bike and you're over 0.05 and you own a car licence or a motorbike or have an L or P plate, you'll be suspended off your licence for that as well.

Speaker 1: 19:28

Jimmy, it's a little off topic, but have you got a comment around that?

Speaker 2: 19:31

I think we go on and on and on with things like that that mobile phones, using mobile phones while driving, riding, push bikes, intoxicated. We've got electric bikes. Then we've got almost power electric bikes now, and you've seen them around. No doubt you've seen them out your way as well. Yeah, of course, terrifying how fast these things go, with young kids driving them around as well. Where does it end? And this is where there's got to be a consequence. That's the problem 133693.

Speaker 1: 20:03

Tiffy, did you have a remark to do with the topic? Tiff hi.

Speaker 7: 20:08

Yes, honey bunch, and hello, rog, yes, hello sweetheart, yeah, I do?

Speaker 7: 20:11

I just wanted to let you know, rog. Hello, sweetheart, yeah, I do. I just wanted to let you know, rog, that I mean I wouldn't normally say you know I donated, you know because it's normally a private thing, but I wanted to let you know that I was able to donate to Police Legacy in Victoria and Blue Ribbon because, as you know, blue Ribbon's coming up on the 29th. I donated to Police Legacy in remembrance of Tomo and Vadim. Sorry, I'm stuttering a bit. I just wanted to let you know.

Speaker 2: 20:44

I really appreciate it, Tiffy, and so you know I get all of your messages as well. I see your text messages when they come up and thank you very much. It's much appreciated.

Speaker 1: 20:52

Well done Tiffy Caesar in South Australia via 5AA in Adelaide. Hello Caesar, oh g'day guys, good show you put on actually. Thank you, caesar.

Speaker 8: 21:04

You sound surprised, but thank you.

Speaker 1: 21:05

Well, I don't normally listen after we switch off.

Speaker 8: 21:07

Oh, you're the one. Yeah, I normally switch off when we end up at 11.30.

Speaker 1: 21:12

You wanted to say Go ahead, susan.

Speaker 8: 21:15

Hey, you're talking about the situation unfolding over there. Yes, the other guy seems to have a lot of details around what happened and from hearing it from interstate here, we hear stories about how Melbourne police officers work. They're a pretty determined sort of outfit. They've got over there. But you said 10 people went in on the day. I'm just wondering I was talking to someone about it tonight what were the other seven doing when this guy started shooting them? How did he get away?

Speaker 2: 21:43

I wasn't there. I don't know the story and that will all no doubt come out, but we will say this clearly, because they were going to do a warrant. There will be body camera footage in relation to all of this as well. That will be reviewed, has been reviewed and will be reassessed. As to what happened, how it happened. We weren't there. I think it's really hard for people to say, but two people got shot. What were the other eight doing? Like, where were they? Well, we don't know. I don't know where they were, what they were, what they were doing. I'll tell you this. I will say this to you, though If you were there and some bloke produced a shotgun and shot two of your colleagues dead or in a situation similar.

Speaker 2: 22:21

In that situation, what would you do?

Speaker 1: 22:25

Look, you're not going to stand there. I would probably lose bodily function.

Speaker 2: 22:29

Oh, yeah, horrendous. Yeah, because you wouldn't have been anticipating that. You might anticipate a bit of anger and a bit of yelling and cussing and swearing and you know, maybe he's going to stand there with a screwdriver and wave a screwdriver or a hammer around, like you know, maybe, but you don't expect someone to just pull a gun out or a shotgun. I think it was reported as a shotgun and I might be talking off out of school here, but a shotgun out and taking two of your colleagues out.

Speaker 1: 22:59

You're not going to stand there and try and negotiate. 133693. Thank you, Cesar. 133693. For those in WA, you can jump on board as well, because I bet it's a big story that people have been talking about on the great radio station, the 6PR in Perth, 133693. And those texts. We'll get to some of those texts as well. Thank you. Horrendous situation. This is one ending in 479. Thank you. Horrendous situation. A similar situation in Queensland. How are these police protected? Bulletproof vets and helmets? Yeah, I'm not.

Speaker 2: 23:30

You probably know more about that it's almost two years to the day From the Queensland incident as well.

Speaker 5: 23:35

It was really Same circumstances too, do you know what I mean?

Speaker 2: 23:40

When I say same yeah, you're right Very, very similar circumstances to what occurred in Queensland.

Speaker 1: 23:46

It was about A warrant at that time too, was it?

Speaker 2: 23:49

I can't remember, I think they'd gone to execute a warrant at that address as well. Horrendous stories came out about that. Afterwards, Stories will come out about this one afterwards as well. Once it's all put to bed.

Speaker 1: 24:01

We will do this. We'll come back to your call straight after Australia Overnight. Good morning, the old expression. If you can only see it through my eyes. I'm never one and I know you are as well to indulge in any level of conspiracy theory, because it's certainly not helpful and that's never information that can, by definition, ever be produced in front of a court. No, it's got to be evidence and fact. Yep, but the idea of people even if you look at some of these texts coming through as well that reek in the idea of theory.

Speaker 1: 24:35

Theory theory, theory. It's not something in which we really want to indulge, but thank you for those notes. Let's go to Johnny Mwangarata. Hello, John Morning.

Speaker 9: 24:44

Hey, how are you going, fellas?

Speaker 2: 24:45

Well, thank you. Good thanks John.

Speaker 9: 24:47

That's good. I'd just like to say it's a shocker thing. He was a great mate of mine. I hunted and fished with him. This is Tomo. It was a privilege of mine to be considered a mate of his. It's disgusting how some parts of society justified the other bloke I want to mention. He's known because I don't believe it should be mentioned. He was a parasite to society. That's why they were there to arrest him. He was no hero.

Speaker 9: 25:17

He was nothing else. And it's my belief, from what I've heard, that there was actually two members murdered. There was another one seriously injured and the others were pinned down. So the police force did a fantastic job. So the police force did a fantastic job. I believe they all should be respected and just treated with the greatest respect and honour, and anybody who's got any time for the other flog. They're just not a decent person. They're a very ordinary part of society.

Speaker 2: 25:50

John, I feel your pain and clearly you've lost one of your best mates out of all of this and that's tragic and I really do feel for you there. Can I ask you a question?

Speaker 9: 26:04

Yeah, yeah, yeah go for it.

Speaker 2: 26:06

If we're running an operation and the operation's been running for so long, should the government stand up and put up a reward for this?

Speaker 9: 26:15

person? Absolutely. If it's costing you $200,000 a day, why wouldn't you put a million dollars on his head?

Speaker 2: 26:22

Well, that's right, because the operation Mike Bush, the Chief Commissioner, has made no secret of the fact that this is going to run its course, which means he's going to keep them up there as long as it takes. So why wouldn't the government come out immediately and say because if there's allegations of him being harboured up there by I didn't realise and I don't know whether you did, tony, or whether you've heard, but apparently the whole area up there has all got these type of people all through it, and this is a concern and a problem for the police as well, because are people, this network of whatever they are, are they harbouring him, looking after him?

Speaker 1: 26:58

protecting him. Well, I think the we've got to be a bit careful, but I think the Commissioner made that point, that the assertion is. It's something at which we are looking very seriously as a possibility, without knowing.

Speaker 2: 27:15

But if he's so anti-government, so anti-everything, wasn't he receiving welfare from that government? That he wasn't.

Speaker 1: 27:21

I don't know. Do you think that the idea of putting up a reward, as they used to say, like in the Westons, does that in your experience? Does that motivate people to come forward?

Speaker 2: 27:33

If you were a person that through one phone call you could literally make yourself a million dollars, I'll tell you what. It'd be pretty motivating.

Speaker 1: 27:42

But is it usually?

Speaker 2: 27:45

dependent on conviction, absolutely it is.

Speaker 1: 27:49

Thank you, john, artie, just a quickie Good morning.

Speaker 6: 27:53

Good morning Tony, roger and Jackson. Yeah, just a quick one. His wife is of interest, as you know, cooperating with the police. I don't know how many names you will know who it is, but I believe there's something funny about the situation and possibly involved in harbouring.

Speaker 1: 28:10

I don't think any of it's funny. None of it's funny. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 28:13

Arthur, I think one of the things is with the wife. She's obviously not harbouring him because they would know. I can tell you now, if the police knew where he was, he would be in custody. It's that simple. They're not going to be dancing around just watching to see what he does next. If they knew where he was, he's in custody, End of story. And I think the wife would be monitored pretty closely. I don't think there would be much opportunity for her to be harbouring or communicating with or doing anything with him at all. I mean, Mike Bush confirmed today that she was actually on the property at the time that the incident occurred as well.

Speaker 1: 28:47

The technology around a lot of these matters, not just here but anywhere around Australia or the world for that matter. If you were watching dare I say it a movie. The technology plays a big role because it can these days. Yeah, do we have sufficient levels of expertise around that technology to your knowledge, or am?

Speaker 2: 29:08

I asking the wrong question Honestly to me, asking me I don't know. I will say this I will remember many, many, many, many years ago, learning that I was at an event and this drone thing went over the top and I didn't even know what it was. I'd never heard of a drone before. This is going back. I'm talking a long, long time ago, so the special operations group were way ahead in that at that time, and we're talking a long time before, everyone was flying drones for hobbies. I can't begin to imagine what they're using now.

Speaker 1: 29:41

That's all I'll say on that, because one of the things that I've written down, knowing that you were coming in, is why do we call them a drone? From where?

Speaker 2: 29:48

did that name originate for a drone? I've got no idea, but they make a noise.

Speaker 1: 29:54

And they drone. Maybe it was the sound of it. Maybe it was the sound 133693, AJ on the road.

Speaker 10: 30:01

Good morning, when are you? Good morning, I'm in Zipit at the moment. Good on you, mate. I just don't understand why we're so backward on something like this. Other countries, like say the United States or other places, for something like this, they'd actually bring out the National Services, the armed guards, to help hunt down somebody like this.

Speaker 2: 30:24

AJ, I'm going to defend the police on this one, and I've seen this written in many, many places like this AJ, I'm going to defend the police on this one, and I've seen this written in many, many places, many places. I want people to understand that our Special Operations Group or the Victoria Police Special Operations Group, highly trained, highly skilled, are next level trained. They train. People have said why aren't the SAS in here? Well, our Special Operations Group train with the SAS. They train worldwide. They are up there with the elite of the elitist in the world. It's just that they work for Victoria Police and they love doing what they do. They love doing what they do. Training is something that they do every single day. If I can just relay a story, I remember seeing a special operations group member once going back many, many years ago, training and tumbling into water, reloading underwater and coming back out of the water and thinking, oh God, what a I can't say wanker but you know what I mean, you can I remember thinking.

Speaker 2: 31:31

But I happen to know when they went after Butterley and Gibb in the bush after they'd broken out of the remand centre here in Melbourne and they went off after them in the bush, one of the SOG members literally tumbled into the water, reloaded underwater and came out shooting Wow Right, that's why they trained to do that sort of thing. So we are talking the elite of the elitist. So while we look at them and we go, oh wanker, do you know what I mean? They are training for muscle memory, for when they need to be able to do these things. How are they selected, rog? Or do they put their hands up? Oh, no, they put their hands up. No, they put their hands up and some people are selected for it. But you know, there's a lot of reasons why they are selected.

Speaker 2: 32:19

A lot of SOG boys have got like military backgrounds or may have joined on the back of military backgrounds Trading, some don't. But they have this ability to be able to turn the off switch on in their head that turns off pain in their bodies and they just go. I've seen them do some because I was at the doggies for 17 years. I've seen before they had their own dogs. I've seen the SOG do some things that I just didn't think were possible in endurance and exercise and the way they put them through the courses. We are talking and I want people to be really clear and understand this we're talking the elite of the elite. Our special operations group here in Melbourne is the counterterrorism squad for Australia. They are the elite with SAS. I think I've made that point. They're elite. You've done it. You've done it beautifully. So when people say, oh, why aren't the military in? The military have been there since the incident occurred because the special operations group are military.

Speaker 1: 33:18

Well spoken. You mentioned the time that you spent with the dogs and you were an event. I might like to say that you were an event recently supporting and celebrating and acknowledging the work that you and many others have done with dogs over the years. It's coming up.

Speaker 2: 33:34

I've been invited to.

Speaker 1: 33:35

I beg your pardon. I thought I saw a picture recently. Forgive me.

Speaker 2: 33:38

The Police Dog Squad are celebrating their 50th anniversary this year, believe it or not.

Speaker 2: 33:44

It's going to be held out at the Dog Training Centre in October and I've been invited to go along. I'm truly humbled that I've been, and it's going to be held out at the Dog Training Centre in October and I've been invited to go along. I'm truly humbled that I've been invited to go to this event because to go as an ex-handler, it was 17 years of my life there, so it's quite exciting to go back and celebrate the 50th anniversary. How many dogs did you have?

Speaker 1: 34:03

over that time.

Speaker 2: 34:03

I had five over that time for myself, because I had one that only lasted about two years. It had autoimmune disease and it had to be put down. Then I had another one that I trained up which was a lot older, that I only had for three years. Then I had another one that I trained and had for five years for quite an extended period Fantastic dog. Then I had another one that I had for a few years, worked it overnight and put it away in the kennel. At 4 o'clock in the morning when I got home and I remember my wife come running into the room screaming that the dog had died in the kennel overnight and it got bloat which has a gastric torsion where the stomach flips and it blows up. So that happened. And then I had my boy Ink at the end, who was a tremendous dog as well.

Speaker 1: 34:50

What did you call it? Ink.

Speaker 2: 34:51

I-N-K. I-n-k. Can you guess why? No, yeah, because he was absolutely jet black from the tip of his nose to the tip of his tail. So he was Ink. Isn't that a fantastic name. Ink, petey, ink, yep 13693.

Speaker 1: 35:03

Well done you. 133693 is our telephone number. It is Australia Overnight, tony Mack. Roger Sutherland is here. Come and join us here at the site, wherever you are. Roger Sutherland is here from a healthy shift, former police officer, 40 years in the job, retired now 12 months and is a regular contributor to the Year Program Australia Overnight 133693. Lots of the word drone, originally described as a male honeybee, is that the origin of it.

Speaker 1: 35:32

Thank you, dr John. Brings us up to date. We made the point the relationship between SAS. I don't think will you clarify that, Because one in particular has questioned the idea of the relationship between SAS and SOG.

Speaker 2: 35:46

I was quite clear that I said they train with the SAS, and you know why? So they learn from the SAS. So let me just say that quite clearly. The SAS are the be all and end all and our special operations group go and train with them to learn from them. So that's what I've said there to be quite clear. And are they at the level of the SAS? No, that's why they go there to train and learn from them.

Speaker 1: 36:12

Laz, you wanted to say in Guildford Morning.

Speaker 8: 36:16

Tony, how you going mate? Well, it's not so cold here at the moment, which is good.

Speaker 1: 36:22

That's nice. What did you want to say, Laz?

Speaker 8: 36:24

Okay, mate, talk about the SAS Now. I've done a lot of trekking and you know the Stirling Ranges don't you, Tony?

Speaker 1: 36:31

Sure beautiful.

Speaker 8: 36:32

Yeah, there's five peaks there along one of the main mountain ranges and I used to go down with my mates and we do the ridge top trail and it'll take us 48 hours. And then we're out there doing the ridge top trail. We'd have to sleep overnight in the cave or whatever, and there's these two guys running down and we saw them back at base camp that night. They did it. It took us 48 hours, they did it in eight hours.

Speaker 1: 37:06

Crazy, they are elite. They did it in eight hours. Wow, crazy, they are elite. Yeah, they know what they're doing. Laz, I've got to move on. We want to race through some of these calls. Sandra, you wanted to make a comment.

Speaker 3: 37:18

Yeah, I just wanted to send my condolences to the families of the two officers Because I grew up my mum actually worked in the office of the police and you know I grew up with a great respect for the police and you know it was very sad what happened to those two offices.

Speaker 2: 37:42

So this is where the police family, Tony Sandra's mum, worked in a police office. She becomes part of the police family. She feels she sees.

Speaker 1: 37:53

Connected.

Speaker 2: 37:53

She connected, and this is what I was saying to you on the phone the other morning afterwards People don't get it unless you've been part of that family and if you've been part of that family. And connected is a great word too, because once you are in and you're part of that, that connection is there forever and it never goes. And even after you leave, after years or even after a short period of time, there is always that connection. It can never be dismantled.

Speaker 1: 38:21

It's never dismantled. Bronnie hello in South Yarra.

Speaker 11: 38:25

Oh, hello, Tony, Hello Roger. Hi Bronnie Roger many people on a day. About 10 or 12 years ago I was in the city on a day off and I was going to the Collins Street tram stop at Swanston Street and I was on the Wales the Westpac Bank side.

Speaker 1: 38:43

The Wales corner.

Speaker 11: 38:45

That's right. 25th Street.

Speaker 11: 38:46

And the modern tram came down and the doors opened, A guy flew out with several authorised officers chasing him and it didn't last long. It took six of them to hold him down and he was face down and he kept screaming I'm a sovereign citizen, I'm a sovereign citizen. And this went on and on and on and he's very, very strong, this fellow, and it took six people to hold him. For whatever reason, this tram was coming in from the eastern suburbs and for whatever reason, I kept thinking what in the hell is a sovereign citizen?

Speaker 1: 39:21

But now it's a very good point. We've got to leave it there because we're going to run out of time, bronnie, but you make a great point, very good point. We're going to run out of time, Bronny, but you make a great point. It's a curiosity, isn't it, that has come into the vernacular. Most of us don't quite comprehend the idea of it.

Speaker 2: 39:33

No, and it's escalated to this stage now. What Bronny saw 10 years ago to where we are today. Now, sovereign citizen is on everyone's lips, whatever it is.

Speaker 1: 39:44

We'll let you know how you can help. We'll do that. The other side of this Around Australia, here on Australia Overnight, I'm often asked how can people help across Australia? You can have a look at Blue Ribbon Blue Ribbon Day Not Far Away.

Speaker 2: 39:57

Yes, 29th of.

Speaker 1: 39:58

September and Police Legacy really goes to families for now and forever for a lot of people that lose offices.

Speaker 2: 40:05

And they've set up a fund that anyone that donates to this particular fund in Legacy goes directly to these two families, not just into Police Legacy as well.

Speaker 1: 40:15

You're a good man, thank you. Our thoughts you know it's a cliche, I know, but certainly our thoughts. Tough week it's a tough week it's a tough time for all members and will continue to be for some time, I would imagine it will Absolutely.