Speaker 1: 1:35

Here we go. It seems to have been a while. For those that don't know, the great Roger Sutherland, founder of A Healthy Shift for a long time, was an officer here in Melbourne town. 40 years on the job. He helps these days workers get through their shifts that's why he's here to get me through the night, baby but actually thrive coaches and boost energy levels and all that sort of stuff. But not only all of that, he's just a great bloke.

Speaker 2: 2:08

Roger, good morning, nice to see you. Good morning to you, tony. How are you this morning? You're right, you sent me a little note and you said I'm all fired up baby.

Speaker 1: 2:14

I've got a lot of things about which to chat. A couple of things before you start. Today, 41 years since you entered the Police Academy Not the movie, the Police Academy and you've been out for 12 months, but 41 years ago today.

Speaker 2: 2:30

Yeah, on 41 years ago. Today is the day I walked through the gates and started in Vicpol. Memories. It was just, I remember, because I wanted to join when I was 16 and I was accepted to join when I was 16 for the cadets and then, six weeks before we were due to start, the government abolished the cadets. So I would have done year 11 and 12 in the cadets for the police. Would that have been down here in St Kilda Road? No, it was the old Savoy Plaza, literally across the road here.

Speaker 2: 3:00

Oh really, okay, the old Savoy Plaza Hotel opposite Spencer's Southern Cross Railway Station. Yeah, of course it would have been done there, year 11 and 12. You probably remember, have you seen the video of the skipping team, the cadet skipping team? Not that.

Speaker 1: 3:13

I can recall.

Speaker 2: 3:14

Anybody YouTube that? Youtube the Victoria Police Cadet Skipping Team. Yeah, they appeared on the Don Lone Show a number of times and were fabulous.

Speaker 1: 3:23

But you weren't in there.

Speaker 2: 3:25

Oh no, I was not in that, no, but anyway, then I had to go and find a job. I remember my mum taking me to the academy and we met someone and he said go and get a job in retail, somewhere where you're dealing with the public. So what I did was I went and got a job in a supermarket, started off as the storeman, ended up managing the store, and at 20, well, at 18, I started my application process and at 20, I started in VicPol. What an experience, what a journey.

Speaker 2: 3:50

I caught up with my squad for my 40th anniversary and it was Melissa. My partner came along. She said it's unbelievable, the chemistry between you people. It's a bond that is unbreakable and it doesn't matter how often you've seen each other. Everyone's the same and it was really quite incredible. It was an area I felt really safe in. It was an area because it's been very traumatic for me the last few years, but anyway, we are here and in four days' time I will have been out for 12 months. Does it feel like 12 months? No, it does not.

Speaker 1: 4:25

Yeah, it goes crazy. No, it doesn't, it does not. See, I've been in this chair for just on two. Oh no, it's crazy, it's just amazing it feels like I'm still new kid on the block and I don't take that lightly. Come and join us. 133693. We can talk about anything you want to mention, but certainly you're pretty fired up, given you and I haven't spoken for three or four weeks now.

Speaker 1: 4:47

You're fired up and genuinely concerned for many on frontline really around Australia and for a range of reasons, but you share with the listener why you believe that to be so.

Speaker 2: 5:01

All right. So I am tremendously fired up and I've been quite silent about this, and there's nothing more X than the ex-cop. But I'm not just talking about police here. But what I do want to say is our frontline health and our frontline law enforcement are in a real pickle at the moment. They're getting work to the bone, the funding is not there to be doing the things that they need to be doing and they are burning out at a rapid rate and leaving Now. This is happening right across this country, but it's not only happening in this country, it's happening worldwide.

Speaker 2: 5:34

I have great fear because it's not just me being out of policing and just sitting there on those forums with the bitter, twisted old cops. I'm talking to a lot of shift workers and I'm coaching shift workers. They are really at the end of their line and burning out and they're going to walk away. There's a lot of people who are going to walk away. My fear where are we going to be in a few years' time when these people have all just walked out? Because there's just not enough care and attention given to our frontline health and law enforcement.

Speaker 1: 6:07

How would you describe it? So they're feeling unloved, abandoned, disenfranchised, abandoned.

Speaker 2: 6:12

Yeah, abandoned. They're not feeling supported in any way. And if you look at the police, to start off with and this is I'm talking police they're analysed by the public, they're analysed by the media, they're analysed by their management. They're out there doing a really, really hard job. A really hard job doing the best they can. Now, right across Australia at the moment, we have a youth crime problem everywhere, right, and these officers are spending a lot of time away from their families, their loved ones, their children, everyone to process these offenders that are committing those crimes, to just be back doing the same thing again the next day with the same offenders, with no consequence.

Speaker 1: 6:56

Yeah, which has been. It's frustrating you and I have talked about that before. It's an issue for many and we understand it. I'm going to talk to somebody very important about that next week too, by the way, which I'll tell you about when we're off air, but it will be a fascinating consideration because people are really he's not off about it the public have had enough and this is concerning, because the public have got to the stage now where we've got to be worried about what they're going to do.

Speaker 2: 7:27

Well, I'm not talking vigilantes, but I am talking about people protecting themselves. The public have had enough. You've only got to have a look at the comments on forums and social media around the place.

Speaker 1: 7:37

But I was going to ask you about the idea of it. We'll get to those that are waiting 133693,. I promise you social media around the place, but I was going to ask you about the idea of it. We'll get to those that are waiting 1-double-3-6-9-3. I promise you get to you in just a moment the idea of particularly social media. It plays this role now which almost, I don't know, antagonises the sentiments around a lot of these issues Totally. It does.

Speaker 2: 7:55

And that becomes a real issue for itself. But the social media is also driving a lot of this as well, because these youths are actually filming themselves. I don't know whether you saw the one out of Queensland yesterday. I saw a Channel 7 story yesterday that was around this childcare centre where this offender had been filming himself committing crimes and then ended up in a childcare centre. It was taser. Now, had there not have been social media, would he still have done it? Or is he still? I don't know. And it's hard to say that people are using social media now to broadcast what they're doing for their own brownie points and likes. We can't be committing crimes for likes 133693,.

Speaker 1: 8:41

come and have your say Anything that you want to raise on the program while Roger is here with us. Part of Australia Overnight in Port Melbourne, hello Tim.

Speaker 6: 8:48

Gents, how are you going Well? Thank you, been enjoying that last little bit of conversation you've been having. Yeah, I'm in Port Melbourne. My wife, us and the dog, thankfully, have got a nice big German shepherd that you know. Lets anybody that comes past the front of the house know. Probably not a good idea to jump the fence, but I rang the police, rang triple zero last Friday afternoon. There was a couple of young kids sort of hanging around. We're a pretty tight-knit community here. We sort of know who's coming and going. So rang triple zero said hey, there's a couple of young guys hanging around.

Speaker 1: 9:43

What reaction did you get?

Speaker 6: 9:48

I don't want to. You know, the people that work there and answer the phones are doing the best they can. They've only passed on the message. Pass on the message. But, um, you know, there there was the. The message from the police was basically um, did I have a weapon? I didn't want to say I couldn't see they had a weapon. So I said no, I couldn't see they had a weapon. Um, and basically, um, just monitor them. And my concern was I've got um elderly neighbors, um, on the on the side of my house and that they were using that empty house to jump over and get into the neighbours. So I took Riker, my dog, and the police were you know, don't approach them, don't do this. I said well, what? You guys aren't coming.

Speaker 1: 10:38

So Tim let me just leave you there for a moment, if I can. I just want to get Roger's reaction to that, because when we ring triple zero and you've been very involved in that- and. Melissa, I think, is still involved in that particular area. The point of that story is can anybody at triple zero, do anything for a crime that has not yet been committed? No, how does that?

Speaker 2: 10:57

work. Well, see, and it should, like the public, have got every right to feel protected in their area. But I know that, through the structured call taking that they go through at Triple Zero, that call taker is following a bouncing ball. Right, they're following a bouncing ball. Ask this question. Depending on that answer goes to where, how it gets prioritised, how it gets done and if no one's committing a crime, well, and you will have heard what was just said then by Tim that don't approach them. Have they got a weapon? Like they're trying to gather all the information they can. Now, if this was a serious crime, gathering that information is part of the process, as the police are being dispatched to the job at the same time.

Speaker 1: 11:35

Because if you send somebody to Port Melbourne on the basis that there was a potential crime that could take somebody who rings three minutes later something dreadful happening down in Brighton but we've got nobody to send to because we've got somebody looking for a potential crime in Port Melbourne, we can't get you to.

Speaker 2: 11:51

Brighton. That's right. And even then, at the moment, a lot of people are being recalled, a lot of police are being recalled on overtime to come and do these demonstrations because there isn't the staff anymore to run these. There's no like force reserve that can run this. There used to be. When I started in the 80s, we used to have a force reserve that had hundreds and hundreds of members that were just called in doing these demos and stations were still running and things like that. It doesn't exist anymore and we are in a position where and I know from experience because my own family members are taking overtime to actually, or having to do overtime to fill these spots for these demonstrations. Yeah, on a Sunday, 300-odd police running these demonstrations.

Speaker 1: 12:33

Which you and I pay for which we pay for.

Speaker 2: 12:36

Yeah, but then, tony, where you live, there's no police covering you, because the station can't actually function, because they're doing the demonstration.

Speaker 1: 12:44

Meanwhile, two or three cars are racing up and down Monash Freeway and there's nobody there really monitoring that closely.

Speaker 2: 12:50

And the pole air, the helicopter like I've got a friend of mine that's there. The pole air can see these offenders driving because it's like shooting fish in a barrel from the air, because you can spot them from wherever the way they're driving. And then they call for a local unit. There's no local units available because there's just no one available. I think if the public were really aware of how diabolical the situation is and my prediction of how it's going to get, how bad it's actually going to get, the public should be in fear, not just from what's happening in the streets.

Speaker 1: 13:21

But we don't want to create the fear.

Speaker 2: 13:24

No, we don't.

Speaker 1: 13:24

That's part of the problem as well, for community rest or unrest.

Speaker 2: 13:29

Yeah, I agree.

Speaker 1: 13:30

It's a challenge.

Speaker 2: 13:31

But we can't have vigilante.

Speaker 1: 13:32

No, we can't. We'll talk more about that in just a moment. And your calls come and join us to have your say. 1-double-3-6-9-3. I'm Tony McManus. Roger Sutherland is here, Former copper, 40-plus years. 1-double-3-6-9-3. Jump on board. 1-double-3-6-9-3. Perth listeners in WA, because you've got lots of activity in that part of the world as well. 1-double-3-8-8 back number 133693 and you get through and become part of the program. Chris, you're in South Australia and you've been driving armoured vehicles for how long, Chris?

Speaker 7: 14:07

I've been about 37 years, 36 years. I appreciate what the police go through. I've gone through the same bit, long hours during the day, Virtually. I got married you know halfway through type of thing and doing hours and things like that just to. You know pay for the house and everything. But it's cost me my marriage. I've got the house paid. I'm here by myself now. She's left. She had enough of it type of thing. But it gets to the stage even when you're off duty. You're walking through shopping centres and you're watching everything that goes on. You just can't get it out of your system. You know it's mucked up my life. It's taken time just to sort of debrief yourself on things and what's going on, chris.

Speaker 1: 15:09

I can hear it in your voice, demoralising in many ways and upsetting presumably.

Speaker 7: 15:14

But yeah, it's, you know I'm not the only one. There's other ones out there and you know the police are going through the same thing and you know and everything else like that. But it's just one of those things. You know, I go down to the shops. Now, you know, get in the car and go down there and you're walking around and you just can't get down to your system. You're looking at different things and just wondering what people are doing, and you're looking at different things and just wondering what people are doing and you know it just.

Speaker 1: 17:03

yeah, yeah, chris, greg called us puzzling.

Speaker 2: 17:04

Chris, I've got your back right because I totally understand exactly how you feel and what you're going through, and this is my concern for people doing your job and the people that are doing this frontline and emergency services and frontline health at the moment. This is going in all the time and it builds up and it builds up and it builds up. We are not what we thought we were. We thought we were bulletproof.

Speaker 2: 17:28

What we don't realise is and you will back me up on this, chris is how your normal becomes a new normal and then it becomes a new normal and a new normal, and it isn't until you suddenly wake up one day to realizing I'm looking at everything in the shopping center, I'm eyeballing everybody, I sit in a cafe with my back to the wall so I can see the door, and there's so many things that actually occur that become your normal, that are actually not normal behaviour, and this is something that is why I'm really concerned, because we're being exposed to more and more and more trauma all the time now. But we got your back and I'll tell you now, chris, just so you know it's normal. It's not normal to feel that way, but so that you know I understand.

Speaker 1: 18:16

Good on you, chris. Good call, thank you 1-double-3-6-9-3.

Speaker 8: 18:23

Rob. Good on you, Chris, Good call. Thank you 1-double-3-6-9-3. Rob, hello in Richmond G'day. Tony, Mack and Roger, thanks so much for your multiple decades of service to the community.

Speaker 2: 18:32

Thank you, Rob.

Speaker 8: 18:33

I just want to talk about these machete bins. Apparently, 40 of them are going to cost us $13 million. That's right. Why wouldn't the strategy have been listen anyone caught selling machetes. If you're selling them by the end of next week, you'll get a $50,000 fine, and anyone who has a machete will buy it back. And then they buy back the machetes and then they on-sell them to genuine users of something of that nature.

Speaker 2: 19:09

Yeah, I think there's just got to be a zero tolerance. $18 million for 40 bins to put out the front of a police station for people to go. Oh, thank God there's a bin I can put my machete in now, I mean seriously, that is just tone deaf, totally. It's totally tone deaf. And we're spending money. Who authorised that? Who actually said that that was a good idea? Who got the contract? And once again, this will be another secret deal. That's been done, but the bottom line is a bin for a machete at a police station. Someone's going to what walk up with their machete and put it in the bin and go. I'm sorry, I've got a machete.

Speaker 1: 19:49

Bizarre, but at some point and this is just so for people in South Australia and WA, who have not dissimilar issues either, by the way but how has it been so poorly managed in that sense? Who would have made that recommendation to government and then government signs off on it? I know, that's right.

Speaker 2: 20:08

Who's made that recommendation to put a bin there Like we had a? The problem is we don't have like when we had the firearm amnesty. You'll remember when John Howard had the firearm amnesty and we handed back all of our firearms back in and they were walked into police stations and burnt.

Speaker 1: 20:25

It was different times, though.

Speaker 2: 20:26

Totally different. But machetes. The solution is not to address the machete. The machete doesn't harm anybody at all, it's the person that's swinging it.

Speaker 1: 20:36

Chris, you wanted to say We'll go to Chris very quickly in Brodie. Hello, chris.

Speaker 5: 20:41

Yeah, I think we maybe see if any of those PSAs around Parliament, the installations and that see if they want to join the ranks. We need funding from the Commonwealth Victoria hasn't got it. And then replacing with security guards and I think where it probably is with the cultures too, is that my mate John, who has Order Australia, was telling me earlier tonight the immigration officials haven't got the proper people in place to scrutinise people when they migrate. They can't assimilate.

Speaker 1: 21:10

It's not a racial Look, there's all those sorts of issues, nobody's going to disagree with that, but they have to be managed by government, not you and I, not the people in the street, but it has to be managed by government and you have to say that there is a level of negligence or I don't know not reading the room, I think, is the expression.

Speaker 2: 21:29

I haven't read the room about this Every time on social media, and I want to be clear and I know I say this every time I come on the show. But it's not the police's fault, it's not the magistrate's fault. They're operating with their hands tied behind their back by the legislation that's put in place by the government, and people have got to understand that laws come and people can only work to those laws. What we need to do is tie the magistrate's hands in the opposite direction, that there's no option other than to jail them and put them away or refuse bail. But we're not doing that. Yeah, we're not doing that. That's the problem.

Speaker 1: 22:05

And then there's a text there and see, I don't understand this. There's a text that simply says it's a lefty madness, you get what you vote for, but that's the idea of democracy. So if you don't I keep saying this, I've said it so many times now If you don't I keep saying this, I've said it so many times now, people almost get bored with it If you don't like the idea of democracy, then you throw that out with the baby. Yep.

Speaker 2: 22:26

What do you replace it with? Well, I don't know, but I'll tell you this, and this is something that's a reality check for a lot of people when you look out and you look at a group of people, I want you to remember that more than half of them voted for this government. Yeah, they did.

Speaker 1: 22:38

And in all likelihood, and recently, and in all likelihood next year, for the state election here in Victoria, again, there's a real distinct possibility, because the opposition feels like a bit of a rabble, that they will be re-elected.

Speaker 2: 22:52

The thing that I don't understand with the opposition and not whether I'm left or whether I'm right, beside the point, it's got nothing to do with it. It's got nothing to do with it. The bottom line is where is the opposition? There's so many areas that they could be standing up that the public could be standing and cheering and saying let's go to the polls now. I'll vote for you right now.

Speaker 1: 23:13

Having said that, brad Batten I think it was in the media in the last couple of days where he saw, witnessed or heard on a radio station he was driving in from America he said, oh, I'd better go back and have a look at that. So he went back and had a look at it so he could get a sense of what was unfolding, how it was unfolding and why, and who the main players were in that event. Yeah, and he copped a load of feedback saying what was the point of that?

Speaker 2: 23:37

I know so you're damned if you do Staging.

Speaker 1: 23:39

You don't.

Speaker 2: 23:40

Now I want to talk about that from an ex-cop's position, because he's driving along and that would have been an automatic thing for him to do to turn around and go. I'm not just going to have a look at that. He wouldn't have been thinking, brad Batten MP, I'll get brandy votes here. I would almost guarantee that in the back of it was literally that cop mode that went. I'm not going to have a look and make sure that that's what's going on there.

Speaker 1: 24:00

He should have been applauded for that.

Speaker 2: 24:02

Of course he should have been applauded for it.

Speaker 1: 24:03

He's a man standing up in society and he would have known enough to not get involved. Correct, but from a distance, I've got to just watch how this is going on. How's this being managed? What are the issues? Who's involved?

Speaker 2: 24:18

Agreed, and yet it's the vocal minority again that pipe up social media, the keyboard Nazis that want to talk about yeah, just criticise people, for well, they're going to damn them either way.

Speaker 1: 24:29

Australia Overnight. Come and join us straight after this. I mean you look what's happening. Thank you If you've just joined us right across Australia, nice to have your company. I'm Tony McManus. Roger Sutherland is here Healthy shift. A former police officer for 40 plus years. 41 years ago today he entered the academy. So it just coincidentally happens to be today 41 years ago, 133693. We'll go back to Pete and Jimmy in just a moment. The question is, given what President Trump seems to be looking at, certainly in DC, to really crack down on levels of crime. Now, historically I probably wouldn't say I'm a proponent of that, so it's an edgy thing. We saw that to some degree during COVID here, where military involvement, albeit in a minor way, but it was present. Did that help us? Did it support us? Did it support us? What was that like, and would people welcome that today to manage some of these issues going on around Australia?

Speaker 2: 25:29

I think somehow we've got to get back in touch. We've got to get back in touch with the reality of where we're heading. At the moment. Everything seems to favour the criminal at this point in time and we've got to turn that around to protect the public. You live in the society, I live in society. My children, my grandchildren are being raised in this society. Everyone's got the right to be feeling safe in their own homes. It's not good enough to say to someone oh, you should get a dog to protect your property. I don't want to have to have a dog on my property to protect it, I just want to feel safe in my community. Right, and to get the military?

Speaker 2: 26:04

I remember and I know we're speaking countrywide here I vividly remember the military four and eight up walking where I was walking, making sure that people were wearing masks. Now, I don't want to say that. That's my personal opinion Too extreme, Far too extreme. So where's the balance? Well, I think the military need to be doing military jobs. This is my personal opinion. I think the police need to be doing the police job. They need to be resourced, they need to be staffed, they need to be everywhere, Because you can drive anywhere now and never see a police officer sitting on the side of the road with a radar, which you used to see all the time in the 80s and 90s. You don't see that anymore. They're gone. There's just none. They're tied up with tasks. They're not around and I know from speaking to numerous, numerous police daily. Their hands are tied. You've got to remember. They're muted, they can't speak.

Speaker 4: 27:01

They're not allowed to say because they just get in trouble for it. Pete, you wanted to say Tony and Roger, good morning, how are you going guys? Morning Peter. They're starting next week or this week. They're starting the pill testing program. I think we're going to have a bit of a wake-up call once that thing starts up. The pill testing, yeah, yeah, I think starting this week or next week. I think the first one opens.

Speaker 2: 27:26

Yeah, okay. So how do you feel about that Pota?

Speaker 4: 27:30

I'm 40 years old. I've never had a chance to get involved with that stuff. I know people that were involved because they were around them, yep. And so, looking back at it now, if there was really something there to say it's safe, but to say it's not really safe, a weaker person would probably say let me try. I was always in the way of thinking off taking it, because if I got busted by my parents I wouldn't sit on my butt for the next two weeks.

Speaker 1: 28:01

Yeah, pete, we've got you. I don't know what you do with your phone there, pete, but again it's dreadful. You might have to upgrade your phone, old son, because it's shocking, because we love your contribution. The point of that is times have changed what we know about parents. Parents play a different role today than they may have done 60s, 70s and 80s.

Speaker 2: 28:17

Yeah, I agree, but I still say my concern is I'm 18 years old and I've got a pill that I've purchased and I'm going to a festival and I'm going to get it tested. So I get the pill tested and someone says it's safe to take, and in my 18-year-old junior young brain I'm then told that it's safe to take. Now that's not looking at my medical history or whether it's going to have an impact on me or my life or what my history is around. Are they testing the person as well? I've got to be honest.

Speaker 1: 28:49

I'm ignorant, I don't know. Who knows I mean the stories last week were out there where billions of dollars of drugs come into this country. Billions, yep.

Speaker 2: 29:00

That they know of. Yeah, and they'll legalise it. You watch, they'll legalise it so they can tax it Right.

Speaker 1: 29:11

But is that going to help the situation in terms of the behaviour rate? No, it will not It'll just heighten levels of revenue.

Speaker 2: 29:17

Cigarettes are legal, aren't they? Look at the tobacco war.

Speaker 1: 29:20

Yeah, well, it's worked out really well for no one, for no one at all Just dreadful, and allegedly there's somebody who's pretty much running that whole operation and doesn't even live in Australia. No, they're just making a fortune out of it. It's crazy, it is.

Speaker 4: 29:33

It's crazy it is let's take a couple of these calls.

Speaker 1: 29:35

Jimmy, you wanted to say anything to add.

Speaker 3: 29:39

Good morning. Good morning Tony, roger and Jackson. We're all here.

Speaker 1: 29:43

What did you want to say?

Speaker 3: 29:44

Jimmy, nice to speak to you again, roger, I've been waiting for you to come on. Yes, all right to turn the judges magistrates' hands if they weren't all corrupt, which, because of corruption in the magistrates going on, is why most of the criminals are getting away on bail. How do I know this, tony? It was reported by one of your colleagues on this station.

Speaker 2: 30:12

Yeah, that's right, tom Elliott speaks about this. But he's beating, doesn't he? And it's valid. I'm not saying they're corrupt. I don't know whether it's corrupt, I just think it's something. Corrupt is a strong term, but I do think it's manipulated by whom? Well, who's telling them what to do and how to go about it? That's got to be coming from the government?

Speaker 1: 30:33

Well, the law, I mean Mr and Mrs Magistrate, mr and Mrs, his or Her Honour, they aren't sitting there going. I've just had a phone call from whoever and they're telling me how to behave, how to do my job in a court. You don't think? Well, have we seen evidence of that?

Speaker 2: 30:53

No, no, we haven't seen evidence of it, that's my point and you and.

Speaker 1: 30:56

I know that these things are based on evidence.

Speaker 2: 30:58

Tom Elliott's conversation.

Speaker 1: 30:59

I bet Tom Elliott has probably not seen evidence.

Speaker 2: 31:02

No, he hasn't, but he's been involved in a conversation. He makes it quite clear he's involved in a conversation with someone who would lose their job. Now that tells me quite clearly that if that person was identified, they would lose their job because it would be a leak of what is actually going on and the instructions that are being given. So where are those instructions coming from? Who has the power to instruct a magistrate or a judge? There's only one organisation that can do that the government, the government.

Speaker 1: 31:34

But it's got in a democracy. It's got to go through the lower house, the upper house, for most states to become law and then the people who are in charge of implementing those laws can be in a position to do so. But if the laws aren't there now, if the law says under certain circumstances you are obliged to provide bail, under certain circumstances you are obliged to provide bail.

Speaker 2: 31:57

Okay. Well, if the government was fair, dinkum, they would be tying the magistrate's hands in the opposite direction to what they are now.

Speaker 1: 32:04

But they've got to change the laws, though. Surely that's what.

Speaker 2: 32:06

I mean They'd be tying the laws. Why are they not? Well, that's the million-dollar question. Why are they not? Can they not fund jails, can they not? Are fund jails? Are they concerned because they don't have the staff to man the jails that are sitting there empty and ready to go? This is one of the problems that they've got as well. Where do you put them? Where do you put them? It's not a never-ending supply because you've got to have so many staff per prisoner to look after them. You can't just say right, jail them and you put them in jail. Someone's got to be there to look after them.

Speaker 1: 32:37

And we don't have those staff to do it, and particularly for a juvenile which ballpark a $200,000 plus per person per year. Yep, plus, that's conservative, plus Conservative yeah.

Speaker 2: 32:50

It's a big expense, so they're rewarding that expense. The government are rewarding that expense by manipulating the outcomes 133693.

Speaker 1: 32:58

Jump in, have your say, We'll get to more calls. The other side of this Tony McManus, Rogers. Here it is Australia Overnight Morning Tim. Thank you for joining us on Australia Overnight. Say hello to Roger Sutherland.

Speaker 6: 33:10

Roger, how are you going? I did catch a bit of you before you talking about some of the good guys and girls of the Vic poll leaving in droves and just wondering how that's going to obviously maybe encourage what we're seeing at the moment through the community, where these offenders are seeing these cops that are hardened, that are capable, that are willing to take these people on, but obviously they're going to get turned upside down if they take them on in the way they need to be taken on. Yeah, that's right.

Speaker 1: 33:55

It's a very good point. I suppose the other link to that thank you, tim might be the association with young people at 19, when you were starting at 18, 19 and 20. Bulletproof, bulletproof, yep, thinking that what I'd like to do is serve my nation, serve my state, my community, in the role of an officer. And you did 40 years, yes, but how many of them out there are going now? Well, this would be a really good idea. I'd like to be an officer. Is that going to be impacted at some point?

Speaker 2: 34:20

Absolutely. I don't believe, and this is my opinion as well, and that is. It's different now. People applying now are not the same people who were applying I started, and everyone that started when I started were 30-year-plus people that were going to do 30 years, no doubt, and majority of my squad did that 30 years. We had our squad reunion. Majority of them were left. There was only a few that were gone. Is that timeframe?

Speaker 1: 34:47

shifted and changed.

Speaker 2: 34:48

Oh, totally. You know. The life expectancy of a cop now is somewhere I don't know. It's between seven and ten years, that's it. So we're not getting real value. We years, that's it. So we're not getting real value. We get no value out of the people. But my argument to this as well is that what's being portrayed as policing and what policing is to attract people into it is not what policing is right. It's all fly a helicopter and run around with a dog and drive fast cars and things like that, until you get in and then you realise that you're standing on demonstrations and you're dealing with family violence all the time. And hang on a second. This is not. I want to go and fly a helicopter, I want to go and play with the dog, and I know you've got to work up to that. You've got to get to there, and I think people are confused. They're being misled as to the way to go in, and there's no doubt about it that the social media has a massive impact on that. We need cops, not TikTokers.

Speaker 1: 35:39

That's the bottom line that I say there's the T-shirt, just there, we need cops not TikTokers.

Speaker 2: 35:45

Yeah, we need door knockers, not TikTokers.

Speaker 1: 35:48

Did you out the front of Flinders Street? Did you do the street, the traffic? 12 Point, 12 Point, the intersection of Flinders and Swanston.

Speaker 3: 35:56

Street.

Speaker 2: 35:56

Yeah, now you remember people will remember years ago that you used to see the sergeant or the senior constable walking around with about eight young connies At least. Yeah, and they were all standing there learning how to direct traffic. And I remember doing 12 Point and we used to see how many cars we could pack into the hook turn to get around. Like we'd get 12 cars in to get around the hook turn.

Speaker 1: 36:17

It was a challenge for us, you'd get excited.

Speaker 2: 36:19

We would get excited, and then you know you'd go all your colleagues would be going yeah, that's.

Speaker 1: 36:23

great Jamaica in Queensland hello.

Speaker 7: 36:27

Hi there, how are you?

Speaker 1: 36:28

We're well. You wanted to say.

Speaker 7: 36:31

Yeah, I just wanted to ask good old Roger, if you could just give me tips on a simple version of introducing like simple and realistic hacks to a new staff member who's just started that hasn't experienced any shift work yeah, I think one of the best things that they could possibly do jamaica is to actually what they need to be doing is they need to be going to ahealthyshiftcom.

Speaker 2: 36:57

I've got blogs there. I've got at a underscore healthy, underscore shift. I've got lots of tips and hints, and what they need to do is go and have a chat with Jamaica, because she knows exactly how to go about doing it, don't you?

Speaker 7: 37:11

I do have a couple of tips, but not as much as what you can tell us.

Speaker 2: 37:15

Yeah, no, that's right, but I think one of the things is I think the most important thing for people doing shift work today, the most important thing for people to actually understand, is to make sure that they are aligning their circadian rhythm as much as they can, and this is controlled by light. So what you want to be doing is trying to get up at the same time every day.

Speaker 1: 37:37

Jamaica. It's a great question. And the other thing too, when we're talking about people that serve as police or, as you say, the frontline workers, given that it is often shift work because it needs to be, the pressure and the impact that that has on family life is enormous. Has on family life is enormous and, again, is often not addressed by way of having people understand at a very young age. These are the, these are the situations that you're going to be in, maybe for pretty much all of your career that's exactly right.

Speaker 2: 38:09

what I want to say, the most important thing here is and this is the campaign that I'm on and this is my mission at the moment I want to get into the academies and the educators and educate people in the very first start so that they learn, because shift workers are the ultimate self-sabotagers right, but it's not their fault. Right, it's not their fault because they've not been educated. We are packing humans into a 24-7 society today that have not been taught how to go about doing shift work. This is the biggest problem that they have. I want to get in there and educate them with basics so that at least they have an understanding, not to criticise it, but just to help them with it.

Speaker 1: 38:49

We'll look at some of these amazing texts for you as well. We'll do that next Part of Australia Overnight. Good morning to you and great to have your company right across Australia. 133693. We'll take some more calls straight after the news. Roger, a healthy shift. You can have a look at that. A healthy shift. That's a website healthyshiftcom.

Speaker 2: 39:07

Or on the Instagram at a underscore healthy, underscore shift. And I've also got the podcast that people can listen to, which is called A Healthy Shift as well, where I publish an episode twice a week there A Healthy- Shift podcast on all platforms. On all platforms, everywhere, wherever you listen. Don't leave it as long. No, I'll be back in two weeks. Fact Promise, promise, promise. I won't leave you hanging again. Thank you Loved it.

Speaker 1: 39:34

Thank you for having me, you're more than welcome, so let me just give you those details again, because we get calls ahealthyshiftcom, healthyshiftcom all one word.

Speaker 2: 39:45

Instagram at a underscore healthy underscore shift. Is that the best one you could get?

Speaker 1: 39:54

I know it's a mistake, but it's stuck and a healthy shift podcast on all platforms for those that are waiting, and there are many, many texts that are coming through as well. Dumb people with nothing to lose decide our fatal decide our fate yeah, that's right.

Speaker 1: 40:12

Stop compulsory voting well, that's a different issue really, but it gets in a sense connected. We will do this. Come back plenty of time for your calls. Come and join me. Stop compulsory voting Well, that's a different issue really, but it gets in a sense connected. We will do this. Comeback plenty of time for your calls. Come and join me at the other side. More Australia Overnight.