Speaker 1: 1:35

Here we night shift. It's the night shift I think many of you know and remember. We haven't seen him for a long time, don't know where he's been, roger Sutherland, and we talk all things night shift, things that happen in the middle of the night, things that go quirky. The one and only young, anne Jackson, is working. The other side of the glass, roger, good morning to you. Good morning to you, tony. How are you Well, I've been sensationally well and happy and smiling, and it's a joy to see you back in the studios here of Australia Overnight. There are much we can talk about, but I want to talk to you very shortly too, about this seminar experience on which you've been working, which will be fascinating.

Speaker 1: 2:17

During the news, you and I got fired up, as we tend to do, about the state of the nation. I made the point. You can't say as much as I can, but I make the point is that we still have this situation pretty much right throughout Australia, where people are certainly concerned about the lawlessness that seems to be more and more prevalent as we move through this year.

Speaker 2: 2:40

Now I communicate with a lot of policing agencies and police members worldwide. It's not just nationwide, it's worldwide, and the UK are on their loose.

Speaker 5: 2:50

What do?

Speaker 6: 2:50

they say is driving it.

Speaker 2: 2:52

Well, I don't know whether I'm even allowed to say what my thoughts are. Where do you start? Feel free to give your thoughts. Immigration I think the immigration is a massive problem. That's where I think it starts.

Speaker 1: 3:06

So somebody talked about this earlier in the week it might have been last week in the program Yep, on the basis that, if that is the case, how do we manage that? This is because the world population, presumably, is growing. We've got this situation where there is conflict in other parts of the world, people are trying to escape it. They're going into other regions right throughout Europe. It's a major issue. What is the solution? Is there one?

Speaker 2: 3:31

I don't know. But I do know one thing that if people are going to come into the country and live in a country whether it be Sweden, denmark, whether it's Australia, whether it's the US you've got to live and perform with their custom and you need to adopt that, because if you want to get away from that mess that you've come from, then you need to come in and you need to live according to our custom here.

Speaker 1: 3:59

But how do you get people to do that? I don't want to just be the devil's advocate here for a moment. How do you get people to do that? So somebody arrives into this great nation and you look them down the eye and say now you've got to behave in a certain way as an Australian.

Speaker 2: 4:13

Okay, so what about if I went to the Middle East and I was to, and we know that there's certain countries that if you are a female and you're wearing like a singlet top and shorts and you go into that country, you're not going to survive? How are they going to treat you? They're going to treat you very poorly and, in fact, the impact that that has is massive on you because they're going to take it as far as they can possibly take it.

Speaker 1: 4:41

Yeah, but we know Australian people do that. They go to Indonesia, they go to Bali, they go to various parts of Taking drugs and things like that and take drugs and behave appallingly in bars. Yes, and they do, and they go. I've got this right. I can wear a T-shirt. I can wear a dumbass cap if I want to and they get punished, don't they?

Speaker 2: 4:57

by the law of that country. But here it doesn't happen. Now, I personally feel it sends the wrong message when we have the leader of the state that is actually out there handing the keys to an apartment to somebody who hasn't been here that long, when we are in trouble in the rest of the state. The leader of this state has to be putting the laws and starting to put bills of parliament through to support the police and the magistrates and the justice and sort that problem out. There has to be a law and the law has to be enforced. Yeah, so it's got to come from the police. It's got to come from. It has to come.

Speaker 2: 5:38

It's not the police's fault. I don't care what anyone says and I know I've done 40 years in the cops but it's not the police's fault, because I'm talking to police all the time. It is unbelievably frustrating for them. You've got to remember they're away from their families, they're away from their loved ones all the time working on these cases, putting these briefs of evidence together and going to court for absolutely no result at all, and that's because of the lack of well. The Justice Department don't actually have the tools to use to be able to support the police in what they're doing. In the meantime, marriages are breaking down a lot. I know it's a choice, the police are making those choices to do those things. But I can tell you now it's getting very thin in the thin blue line because they had enough.

Speaker 1: 6:26

Very thin. In the thin blue line there's your quote of the morning. I do love that. 1-336-93. Come and have your say Anything you'd like to raise on the program. Roger, as you know, is a specialist very for a long time now, since retirement of the police force, looking at the ideas around night shift and shift workers in particular. You know who you are. You might want to jump. If you have a question or thought or an idea, share your experience. 1-double-3-6-9-3. Arty Karate, morning.

Speaker 7: 6:54

Good morning Tony Mack and Roger and Action Jackson. Now, roger, the weather seems it is cold, it is winter, affecting my sleep pattern in a way, and the vitamin D tablets are going up and down in prices between Woolies Coles. Any suggestions where they're a reasonable price? Sometimes they're $10 and then they jump up to double the price.

Speaker 2: 7:17

Do they really? I haven't noticed that. I always get mine from Chemist Warehouse, believe it or not, and I tend to find that the Swiss brand and I'm not promoting anything. I'm certainly not sponsored by anybody at all but I tend to find vitamin D is vitamin D, no matter where you actually get it from or what labels on it. It's all very, very similar stuff. So it's just a matter of hunting around and finding the cheapest that you can. Please make sure that you keep taking it, and I'd be taking probably 2000 iu or two of those little pills every day at the moment because you can't get vitamin d from the sun at all at this time of the year here in melbourne yeah, it is pretty dark and the shorter days and everything, but yeah, I'll just keep hunting.

Speaker 7: 8:02

I guess they're the ones I'd use, too Swiss. But they're jumping around price. One moment they'll have them for $9.95, then they're about $18.95.

Speaker 1: 8:13

Holy dooly, that is a massive difference, arthur, thank you for that. You say you can't get any sunshine this time of the year.

Speaker 2: 8:18

No, you can get sunshine, you can't get vitamin D from the sun Because the sun's too low in the sky. Aha, it's got to be above 30 degrees above the horizon and it's not at the moment. It's lower than 30 degrees. So even if you sit out in the sun at the moment now don't get me wrong here, I want to, because you're getting the ultraviolet, the infrared, you're getting all of the colours in that spectrum of sun hitting you, but your body can't synthesise vitamin D from the sun at this time of the year. At the moment. We are in a window where you can't synthesise it. It's got to be above 30 degrees above the horizon and that will be. I'll tell you when the next day is. Get out the compass.

Speaker 1: 8:58

Get out the old compass. Is it more than 30 degrees?

Speaker 2: 9:00

No, I'll tell you If we move on.

Speaker 1: 9:03

I'll come back to you and I'll tell you All right, let's take a couple of these calls in. Whereabee, michael, come and join us. Hello, yes, Michael, go ahead.

Speaker 8: 9:16

About what you're talking about. Like you know, I know in the numbers there you know of the crime a bit, a fair bit. It was really bad like rapes and whatever assaults and murders and they brought it down quite a fair bit. But I think here now what we've got, like what I'm watching on the news, it's a society breakdown Like, even like in Northern Territory, alice Springs. There it seems to be getting worse and I just looked up Native American Indians there. They've got like double the crime rate there too.

Speaker 3: 9:46

Yeah.

Speaker 8: 9:47

So it's a lot of culture thing, and now it's coming to the cities. I don't know what's going on.

Speaker 1: 9:54

It's an interesting dilemma really about Michael. Thank you very much for that call. When you talk about the various regions around Australia and what is, is there a heightened level of dissatisfaction with people, with particularly younger people? Are they disenfranchised to the point that they then think it's okay to get, without going into too much detail, loading up a car a stolen car with vodka and weapons and getting on the P155, creating chaos, putting other lives their lives and other lives in danger and that of police officers and others?

Speaker 2: 10:33

Everybody. It's a massive problem. I'm just going to come out and say it, but it's literally consequences. There is no consequence for the action. There's no consequence for doing the right thing today.

Speaker 2: 10:47

There's no consequence for doing the wrong thing, but the laws say you can't do those things, so surely they do so now. I saw a comment today on one of the social media posts and I thought it was interesting. Is the Premier now going to come out, on the back of everything that happened in IGA yesterday? Yep, Is the Premier now going to come out and ban armed robberies or shops from armed robberies? I mean, she's banned samurai swords, but they're still carrying them. Or machetes, yeah, they're still carrying them. So what are we going to do? Ban armed robberies? Oh wait, hang on. The Crimes Act actually tells us that armed robberies are banned. What armed robberies are banned? What's the problem? How do we solve that problem?

Speaker 1: 11:20

That's the issue. 133693. We'll do this break. Come back, those calls that are waiting. I promise you we won't be long. 133693. It is Australia Overnight. We'll get to these calls in just a moment. During the break on Australia Overnight, roger Sutherland and I, from A Healthy Shift, were making the point that the level of disengagement or frustration I think is ingrained in, certainly you would imagine, in proceedings in various courts right around Australia. You would imagine there would be officers young, senior that are also feeling the angst and pain of dissatisfaction with what they do every day, every day, and they're having massive problems with it.

Speaker 2: 12:01

There's text here and I just want to broadly cover it. People are blaming the judges for releasing it. You're wrong. It's not the judges or magistrates that are releasing them on bail. It's the law that's releasing them on bail. The law is written by parliamentarians, by politicians.

Speaker 2: 12:21

They're the ones that have got to sit there make decisions, they vote the bill in, the bill comes in and then the magistrates all party because they can actually then deal with the crisis that they've got in front of them. But they can only work and the police can only work within the law and that's all they can do. What you think looks right and feels right doesn't mean that it is actually what is the law.

Speaker 1: 12:47

And we've said often on this program, you and I don't sit through every single trial and we don't hear the evidences presented to his or her honour. Mick in South Melbourne. Hello, yes, hello, Morning Mick.

Speaker 6: 13:02

Hello, further to what you're saying, I think we have to own the problem for starters and stop just pretending it's a certain way when it isn't, but just basically throwing people off the pier. I think groups, we've got to look after our own Melbourne, our suburbs, whether it's you and me getting together because our society's going down.

Speaker 2: 13:25

I don't agree with the vigilante style. Is that what you're referring to? Yeah, I know what you mean. I can understand it though, mick, make no bones about it. I can totally understand it. Like people have absolutely had a gutful, they've had enough. They're watching it all the time. You follow certain people on social media and things like that, you tend to see it all the time and it causes massive problems and it impacts on our mental health. There's a simple solution is to turn it off, but I was driving- Turn off the social media.

Speaker 1: 13:57

You mean? Yep? So the mere fact that we're having a conversation about it now on air, would you go? We shouldn't even be talking about it.

Speaker 2: 14:07

Well, it does impact on people all the time when we do, but we do need to discuss it because it's a problem. What I want to hear from I want to hear someone one of these callers ring up and tell us how to solve the problem. Someone tell us how, if you've got the Chief Commissioner of Police and Jacinta Allen, the Premier sitting there.

Speaker 1: 14:25

Again we're talking about Victoria.

Speaker 2: 14:27

Sorry, we're talking about Victoria, but if you've got your leader of the police, let's just say we're going to have In each state. No, we're going to do it national. We're going to have a national inquiry. We're going to put everybody there and you have the floor. What's?

Speaker 1: 14:40

your solution to it, but the issues are very different in Northern Territory to they are in Brunswick, are they not?

Speaker 5: 14:48

I'm just putting that out there, I don't know, are they?

Speaker 1: 14:51

Yeah, probably Good on you, Mick. Thank you In Coolaroo, Bobby, say hello to Roger.

Speaker 10: 14:57

Good morning guys.

Speaker 1: 14:58

Morning Bob.

Speaker 10: 15:03

I was just listening to the start of your conversation. The whole trouble is that there are not enough reinforcements. That is to say, you can go and bash somebody, you can go and rob somebody and the first thing you're going to hear is oh, that poor person. He had a deprived childhood. No wonder he's doing all these sorts of things because he hasn't been brought up with having some responsibility for the rest of society as well as himself.

Speaker 10: 15:36

He goes to jail and the jail's nice and warm and comfortable at this time of year. He's not suffering a lot. There'll be a lot of criminals out there who'll say I can do jail time on my ear.

Speaker 2: 15:51

Yeah, and that's so true.

Speaker 10: 15:52

And that's where it's wrong.

Speaker 2: 15:54

Again no consequence is it.

Speaker 1: 15:56

Yeah well, it feels like there is no consequence.

Speaker 5: 15:59

Well it does.

Speaker 2: 15:59

The consequences are in the courts and the courts are not in a position to really bring the proverbial out, but unfortunately the public see the end result in court because that's the end of the line, isn't it? When you think about it? Like the crime is committed, there's victims. I think one of the biggest concerns that the public has today is it feels like the needs of the offender are being put before the needs of the victim because that's what the law dictates.

Speaker 1: 16:27

That correct.

Speaker 2: 16:28

But that's how the public feel.

Speaker 1: 16:30

Well, they do. But but is that because they have a lot? We many have a lack of understanding of the law. Yes, we don't like it. I've been saying for a long time we don't like it. We then need politicians elected into our parliament who are prepared to Victim-orientated, shift those laws forward to where it's more acceptable to people more palatable to people At point, quick at point, quick hello, Neil.

Speaker 9: 16:52

G'day Tom, how's it going? Well, thank you what do you want to say yeah, look, I think, being at the immigration and people are coming here from overseas, I think it goes back to the culture that they're coming from. A lot of them come from war-torn countries and all this that's going on and they just don't have any values for discipline or anything, because they've had to fight their way all their lives, kind of thing.

Speaker 1: 17:22

Cultural in that sense. So, Neil, we've just got a really bad line there. So thank you for making that point, but a lot of these young people to whom I think they refer are actually born here anyway.

Speaker 2: 17:31

That's true too, and I think you've raised this point, and I think it's a valid one as well. You raised this quite some time ago. Have they got respect for themselves? Yeah, a lack of self-respect. Respect for themselves yeah, a lack of self-respect.

Speaker 3: 17:42

Lack of self-respect.

Speaker 2: 17:42

Do they have any self? Is there any self-respect?

Speaker 5: 17:48

Like what makes you do that? That I can't answer. I know.

Speaker 1: 17:51

What makes you do that. Maybe other people would have a sense of that or what was important to us as young people in Australia post-war? Yeah, we knew and we were little, obviously, but there are people who would remember post-war and those very challenging times post-war. Did that unite us in a way that makes us feel it was special at that time? It was tough, it was hard, it was grindy to make it work. Now those conditions no longer really apply. Times have changed, yes. Conditions no longer really apply. Times have changed, yes, and I just wonder whether that connection is no longer what it once was, certainly post-World War.

Speaker 2: 18:29

II yeah, because people are not pulling together, whereas when we have a major incident, everyone pulls together, don't they?

Speaker 1: 18:35

Where are we going? Action Jackson, we're going to Peter in Port Melbourne. Hello, Hi Pete.

Speaker 3: 18:42

Hi guys, good morning. How are you Well, go ahead. Yeah, can I have a quick chat about this youth crime everyone keeps on bragging about? I think it's the fact that when I was a bit younger I never knew the most important thing was the education side for these young offenders. For these young offenders, the fact that these guys have got no prospects are going forward. Probably they're getting suppressed on what they can achieve, they're not getting any help and they're being put down for a lot of society's problems and blaming them for everything.

Speaker 3: 20:40

And the fact that when you talked about the cops sometimes it's not their fault that 11-year-old girl that was locked up in the Northern Territory for two days and one night with no supervision that goes a long way for me to trust the copper back up in the Northern Territory for an 11-year-olds. That's something that not everyone's going to forget, tony. Not everyone's going to forget Tony.

Speaker 1: 21:10

Those issues in the northern territory and far north Queensland and far north of the state of Western Australia they are challenging and they're different again.

Speaker 5: 21:18

Incredibly challenging.

Speaker 1: 21:19

And it's probably a little different to some of the issues that we're experiencing in Melbourne or Adelaide or Sydney.

Speaker 2: 21:27

It is, it's not even I don't think you can liken it. No, because there's all sorts of issues Of coach police in remote areas unbelievably challenging, Chris in Brodie hi.

Speaker 5: 21:42

Hi Peter and Tony Mack. I first of all think people who come from abroad don't know how to assimilate with our culture, our democracy. But I did send the Premier an email. I got the protocol through a call to State Parliament after the Sunday night episode, which coincidentally, I was at the job site, but I didn't actually know anything until it was going down. But I said, maybe with the lack of numbers here in the State District abroad, but the police probably need some help as a one-off under a state of emergency with the Reserve Army.

Speaker 1: 22:19

Well, a lot of people have said that, but then it's not something that's palatable to many?

Speaker 2: 22:24

No, it's not. Do you remember through COVID? I remember through COVID, when police were out walking, particularly in certain areas, police were walking with military members walking along checking face masks and that, like honestly, it left me really feeling yuck, to say the least.

Speaker 1: 22:47

That was more predominant, though, in Victoria than anywhere else, wasn't it yes?

Speaker 2: 22:52

Oh, but I was walking the Maribyrnong River.

Speaker 1: 22:54

I don't think people walking around the Swan were necessarily in that situation in WA.

Speaker 2: 22:59

No, but we were in a real bad way here, but anyway, but yeah, no, I don't agree with the military People in Victoria, melbourne, in Melbourne as opposed to Victoria.

Speaker 1: 23:12

Yep, what hard done by. No, not hard done by, but there is a sentiment in Victoria that would suggest they were worse. What am I trying to say More?

Speaker 2: 23:26

hard done by.

Speaker 1: 23:26

More hard done by than anybody else in the country.

Speaker 2: 23:29

I reckon almost anywhere else in the world just about Melbourne was. It was brutal, brutal. Were you in Victoria then? No, you were so lucky it was brutal.

Speaker 1: 23:40

It was horrible, but I was in communication with people almost every day about people who were gay, so I understood it.

Speaker 2: 23:45

It's different to communicate and to actually live in it. It was horrible.

Speaker 1: 23:50

Yeah, but there was. I bet during that time crime had receded during that time.

Speaker 2: 23:56

Well, I can tell you because I've got friends of mine that were at Polair and it was like shooting fish in a barrel. Any car that was moving because of the curfews, any car that was moving was crooks moving, basically, and it was easy for them the only people doing the wrong thing. It was easy for them to spot them. So they were picked up very quickly because police weren't tied up with all the normal stuff 133693, your calls.

Speaker 1: 24:20

I'm Tony McManus. Roger Sutherland is here from a healthy shift. 133693. Come and have your say. Nice to have your company wherever you are. Right through could be the Ace Radio Network, our great friends at 5AA in Adelaide and 6PR in Perth. Jump on board, come and have your say. 133693 for Perth listeners. 133882. The text line going into Meltdown. I think most offenders need to be publicly shamed. You and I were just talking about that, the idea of public shaming. That's a law. You can't, and so would politicians. Would people want the law to be changed around that so that people could be publicly shamed? Would that make any?

Speaker 2: 24:55

difference. See, I know they say they come out with their faces covered, but they're instructed to, and that their faces are covered because the news are not allowed to show their faces.

Speaker 1: 25:07

Unless you go to a Coldplay concert.

Speaker 2: 25:10

One, double, three, six nine, eight, and you're a big.

Speaker 1: 25:12

CEO. Yeah, Christian hello.

Speaker 12: 25:15

How are you boys?

Speaker 13: 25:16

Go ahead.

Speaker 1: 25:16

Hi Christian.

Speaker 13: 25:18

We need to have discipline brought back into the households and back into schools. Yeah, I agree, it's ridiculous All these snowflakes and everything you know. We're hurting people's feelings and stuff like that. I am sick and tired of hearing it A snowflake.

Speaker 2: 25:34

A snowflake. I agree with you, Christian A snowflake.

Speaker 13: 25:39

People today are snowflakes.

Speaker 6: 25:40

They are so sensitive in everything we do.

Speaker 13: 25:41

Anything you say, do they are. They are so sensitive in everything we do.

Speaker 6: 25:44

Yes, they are.

Speaker 13: 25:44

Anything you say do they are. They are so sensitive. That's why they're snowflakes. We need to start growing up.

Speaker 2: 25:51

Yeah, I agree with you on that.

Speaker 13: 25:52

I'm worrying about little things.

Speaker 1: 25:53

Yep, I agree with you. So how does a teacher, how does an officer of the law? How does a magistrate? How does a senior court judge? How do they determine who and who isn't a snowflake?

Speaker 2: 26:10

How do they decide who isn't a snowflake? How do they go? I'm sorry you're a snowflake, no, but if someone's going to come up, and they're going to say oh no, I'm offended by what you just said. There, go and sit down up the back there. Just shut up and sit down, yeah Right, that's it. I'm not listening to you, Because we listen to the vocal minority far too much. In fact, the vocal minority are fighting amongst themselves and they don't even know what they're there for.

Speaker 1: 26:33

Thank you, george, middle Park. Hello George, come and have your say. Say hello to Roger John in Port Douglas. Hello John, oh hello.

Speaker 15: 26:42

John in Port Douglas. Hello, john, oh, hello.

Speaker 12: 26:46

Morning, yeah, good morning. Yeah, I was discussing youth crime. Look, there's one way to control people and there's a very, very powerful emotion called fear. Yeah, now, fear controls human beings. If they don't have anything to fear, they don't care, like they don't mind going to jail. They get three square meals a day and air-conditioned computers and games to play. That's nothing.

Speaker 12: 27:11

You've got to take the example that they have in Singapore. Singapore has no crime, none whatsoever, because they have this thing called the return, and if you get out of control, you get a taste of the return maybe 10 or 15 lashes, depending on the uh, severity of the offense. Now, uh, this keeps people under control because they uh, there's a thing called fear, you know. But, um, that's the only way you can do it, the only way. But you can't introduce that corporal punishment here because you have this thing called the legal industry. It's an enormous economic impost on the country and they know damn well that if this system was introduced, the crime would stop overnight, just finished. It would be like Singapore no crime at all, but they'd all be out of a job, and so they'd bite tooth and nail to prevent anything like this happening. That's the legal industry. It's an enormous world that employs a lot of people, and they wouldn't like to see that happen, but that's. The only way you can stop them is to use fear.

Speaker 1: 28:24

Good on you, john. Thank you, I'm going to move on, john, because we're going to race through some calls and I don't want to leave people out. Fair comment from John. Yep totally Amen from John. I think he's spot on. I've been hosting these sorts of programs for a long time now and for at least 20-plus years people have been talking about Australia adopting elements of the Singapore model.

Speaker 2: 28:45

They have been. Why don't we look at it? It works, we know it works. Can I just say this one thing? I just want to say this Corporal punishment was abolished because why it's detrimental to the child.

Speaker 1: 29:00

How are we travelling now?

Speaker 2: 29:02

In terms of the Well, there's no corporal punishment. Now Look at the behaviour You're talking about in schools.

Speaker 1: 29:04

Look at the behaviour You're talking about in schools. Yep, so you would go back to getting the cuts, getting the strap.

Speaker 2: 29:09

Well, you've got to give them. Literally, as John just said, you've got to have fear. Now, how would I feel about my son getting the cuts? Well, I did. I got them, Didn't do me any harm Well maybe, but I know we're going to argue and I know all the vocal minority will come out again and say oh no, you can't be doing that to kids. Well, how are we going now? How are we travelling now? Youth crime, everything's out of control.

Speaker 1: 29:35

But is that the role of a female teacher? And there's a majority of teachers no, but they never did that.

Speaker 2: 29:41

The female teachers. When I say female, no, but they never did that, no, the female teachers weren't. When I say female, it wasn't the actual teachers generally.

Speaker 5: 29:47

Generally, it was the sense of the headmaster.

Speaker 2: 29:49

It was a brother, it was the headmaster.

Speaker 1: 29:50

Yeah, and that's where you went. So you've got this headmaster whose sole job is to give boys and girls the strap.

Speaker 2: 29:57

Well, no, it's not his sole job, he's a headmaster. He'd be pretty busy.

Speaker 1: 30:01

He'd be pretty busy. Line him up from 9 o'clock. He'd still be going by morning.

Speaker 2: 30:05

Would he, though, if you started it? Would he At every school right across Australia. Once a kid started coming back with the cuts and they're thinking oh, my God, and it flicked around and it got me on the wrist Would?

Speaker 1: 30:15

you want that job.

Speaker 14: 30:16

I'm now a headmaster at a school, my job is I now strap children? Does he wear a hood, neil? Don't Neil. Hello Roger. G'day Tony. Great conversation again. Thanks mate 50 years ago we never had this problem.

Speaker 14: 30:33

No, 50 years ago. You guys are about my age I'm 67. So we never had this problem 50 years ago. Because we were scared. I never went there. But I have mates that went to Tarana and they would come back and tell me what it was like and I tell you what. Just to listen to those stories that scared the crap out of me. We have to come back to something like that. You don't have to lock them up for 12 months. Put them in there for a week. I know my entry goes down. I know everyone's going oh, we haven't got the money, but the government's got the money for everything else. They go off on their jaunts over the sister cities in October in America and take everyone and fly business class and what have you? So go back to where it was 50 years ago. You were a copper then. If I was walking down the street and I saw you at 10 o'clock at night and that wasn't that late, and I saw the divvy van coming down.

Speaker 14: 31:33

Let me tell you, I jumped over the view.

Speaker 2: 31:35

Oh, neil, I'm totally with you on that, you would.

Speaker 1: 31:39

You would and we all did that. There was some terror about the local police officers because they would report back home.

Speaker 2: 31:45

But as John from Port Douglas said, fear You've got to have fear. If I copped a clip behind the ear from the local cop when I was growing up, there's no way would I tell my parents I would have got another one. You're embarrassed.

Speaker 1: 31:57

Now they're down at the police station making complaints, complaints about the, but is that the role that young police officers want to take on today? No, they don't. And therein lies another problem. There's one here that says Tony Mac, stop interrupting. Roger, you like to disagree? Well, I don't disagree, I simply ask the question. People that have the right idea. Snowflakes, you laugh, don't know what they are. I don't know what a snowflake is.

Speaker 2: 32:26

You've never heard the term snowflake. Oh, Christian and I are on the same team then.

Speaker 1: 32:28

A snowflake's held a chance of health, but how do you determine who is a snowflake and who's not a snowflake?

Speaker 2: 32:32

Well, I think it's pretty easy to pick a snowflake. Well, I could be a snowflake. You're not a snowflake.

Speaker 1: 32:37

Thank you, Len hi Good.

Speaker 4: 32:40

Good evening, tony, what a snowflake. Go ahead, len, you stole me thunder. The corporal punishment, yeah, corporal punishment. I cut the cuts a few times, so did I. And you know it pulls you in the line. It doesn't hurt that much.

Speaker 2: 33:01

And it doesn't last long, does it Len? But you certainly learned from it.

Speaker 4: 33:04

I don't know what a snowflake is, mate, don't worry about that.

Speaker 2: 33:08

You didn't have snowflakes once you'd had the cubs, I didn't buy them those days.

Speaker 4: 33:12

But but no, the thing is no, there's got to be discipline, there's got to be respect. Yep.

Speaker 1: 33:23

But none of that's new though. Len. You say you've got to have discipline, we say we've got to have respect. The question that I put back to you and the listener is how do we instill that? It's not as if there's some magic wand Consequence.

Speaker 2: 33:38

Consequence. I'll say it again, and, again, and again there's got to be a consequence.

Speaker 1: 33:42

And who is going to set up the idea of providing?

Speaker 2: 33:45

politicians by writing the bills to do it and it always comes back to the politician. You have to come back to the politician. They're writing the bill.

Speaker 1: 33:52

And yet you and I vote for people each and every three or four years, both nationally and right throughout the states, and we get the politicians for whom we vote.

Speaker 2: 34:03

We get what we deserve by what we're voting for Now. I know don't get me wrong here there's a lot of people here that will not have voted for this government that we have now.

Speaker 1: 34:13

Sorry. Which government are you talking about?

Speaker 2: 34:15

The Labor government in Victoria. Now Right, okay, so we've got to be careful.

Speaker 1: 34:18

Sorry, I want to be careful. I want to be careful because we're talking about the national audience.

Speaker 2: 34:22

Yeah, there'd be a Labor government in. Well, there's a Labor government in national, yeah, national. And we're in a position now where we voted for that. It was only a recent election. It was a landslide victory, wasn't it? Yeah, landslide victory, wasn't it? Yeah, landslide. So people can't complain and say, oh, he's not doing this or he's not doing it, well, they've got the right to do it.

Speaker 1: 34:45

So you're saying that democracy doesn't work.

Speaker 2: 34:47

You're saying democracy, well, I think it's rigged to a certain extent as well, which is another story.

Speaker 1: 34:51

It's rigged. Well, not rigged, it's democracy. That's what the president says.

Speaker 2: 34:54

The President says it's all rigged. Where do the preferential votes go?

Speaker 1: 35:00

Where do the preferential votes and everything go? A lot of people don't understand that, but that's the system that we have. That's our democratic system in Australia, yes, so how do we overhaul that?

Speaker 2: 35:10

How do we overhaul that? We need to educate the public on where those preferential votes are going so they know exactly what they're voting for, and I don't think enough people know that?

Speaker 1: 35:21

No, they don't, and they're not inclined to even find out about it.

Speaker 2: 35:23

No, they're not no. And then they want to bring in voting at 16 in the UK.

Speaker 1: 35:27

I know 133693. Rudy in Adelaide will come to you next. You can join the conversation. I'm Tony McManus. Roger Roland is here, a former copper of 40-plus years. Normally we talk about shift work, but we can go anywhere in this, that's all right. Anywhere 133693,. Come and join us straight after this. A lot of text, which is nice. Wherever you are right across Australia, we will get to as many as we can. 0477 693 693. Rudy in South Australia Hello, hello. How are you going there, rudy?

Speaker 11: 36:00

you wanted to say I wanted to say just one thing. I'm old, vintage, but we used to have corporal punishment when I went to school and I had the cane a few times school and I had the cane a few times and that didn't hurt. Well, it did hurt at the time.

Speaker 1: 36:25

Do you think it was a deterrent, Rudy? It straightened me up.

Speaker 11: 36:30

You reckon it did? Oh yes, and then I'd get a double whack. When I got home from, the headmaster gave the report.

Speaker 2: 36:37

I was the same, I agree.

Speaker 11: 36:40

And I wanted to say to Roger we need more like him to actually get into Parliament. Ex-copper. Yeah, I agree to get into Parliament to actually make these laws come to fruition and don't, like the previous caller said about snowflaking and all that stuff, Go back to the old days. You run riot on the streets when you were a kid, right, Yep, you got into trouble.

Speaker 1: 37:26

Yeah, well and truly you did, Can I?

Speaker 2: 37:28

just say one thing we had the chance to vote on an ex-cop and we didn't vote for him. And we've also got one here in this state as well. Who's in the leader of the opposition? Who's an ex-cop? Isn't Brad Batten an?

Speaker 1: 37:38

ex-cop Brian in Hastings, hello.

Speaker 15: 37:42

Yes, yeah, I'm on the opposite side of everything, because what's happened to me is absolutely throwing my world upside down. I'm a 65-year-old, disabled pensioner and I've had the I call myself have come up my driveway while I'm tinkering with my new car and, yeah, they've come up with a breathalyzer and said, oh well, I didn't have a drink or anything. Oh, hang on, I'm going to come on my property. I'm a diabetic too diabetic one having a hypo and I've gone inside to do what I had to do. I lost my license for four years over this and it's cost me $4,000 to get a solicitor, and I've had to plead guilty, which I did because I did refuse a breathalyser in my own driveway.

Speaker 1: 38:46

I don't know what's going on here, rudy, there's something a bit weird about that, yeah about the law there.

Speaker 2: 38:50

Without the full context of the whole story, it's extremely difficult. I know type 1 diabetes that's having a hypoglycemic episode can certainly present like someone who is intoxicated, and it's one thing that I learned the hard way in my career as well. Someone who I thought was drunk was actually having a hypoglycemic episode. You've got to be so careful. You've got to remember too, the cops are not medical professionals. No, of course not, and that's why they've got a breathalyzer in their hand, so when you blow in it, it gives you a reading.

Speaker 1: 39:19

Yeah, what about and I'm not too sure what Rudy's situation may have been, but if officers were following that particular car? That car turns into a driveway If they are suspicious about that are they allowed to do a test in the driveway? Yep, because they've seen that driver, yep. So it's not about being in the driveway necessarily. No, it's a bit random, it's continuous.

Speaker 2: 39:41

All right, it's continuous.

Speaker 1: 39:43

We've got to do this. When we come back more of your calls, Come and join us on Australia Overnight, Roger, would you say. Based on a lot of the text, would you say imprisonment is a holiday camp.

Speaker 2: 39:54

No, not at all. You're taking a person's liberty away from them.

Speaker 1: 39:56

G'day Tony and Roger. Perhaps we need to lobby governments to change laws and not stop until they do.

Speaker 2: 40:04

There you go Well I think that's the DNA of what we're talking about. We're finished on that, amen.

Speaker 1: 40:08

Thank you for having me. The laws are going to reflect it. It's always good. Have a look at what Roger does. A healthy shift dot com. A healthy shift dot com. We'll talk to you in a couple of weeks. We go whining.