Speaker 1: 1:17

Shift work can be brutal, but it doesn't have to be. Welcome to A Healthy Shift. My name is Roger Sutherland, certified Nutritionist, veteran Law Enforcement Officer and 24-7 Shift Worker for almost four decades. Through this podcast, I aim to educate shift workers using evidence-based methods to not only survive the rigours of shift work but thrive. My goal is to empower shift workers to improve their health and wellbeing so they have more energy to do the things they love.

Speaker 1: 1:49

Enjoy today's show and welcome back to another episode of a Healthy Shift podcast. Today is another guest episode and the guest is my well, I'm going to call him my coach and also has become quite a good friend as well, and that's Jack Hallows. And we've had Jack on the podcast before, but today's going to be something a bit different. We're just going to basically chew the fat. We're just going to chat and talk about different things, and in that chat I don't want to make it too structured. I didn't want it to be structured with. Here's the question give me an answer. Here's the question. I literally just wanted to make it something that we could just chat and chat at length and just talk about different things and as they came up and you'll hear, some fantastic stuff, actually came up with some great strategies. As I expected with Jack, it's always a good chat and I think, well, let's just get into it, let's have a listen to it. And here is Jack Hallows. Welcome back to a Healthy Shift podcast, jack Hallows. How are you, jack?

Speaker 2: 2:56

Raj, I'm doing well, man. Thanks for having having me back. Thanks for having me while I'm sick as well. I'm sorry if I sound a little bit nasally and stuff to everyone.

Speaker 1: 3:02

Like, just just pretend that I'm not, like yeah if I remember correctly, jack, I've got a feeling that you might have even been sick last time as well, when we had you on the podcast, which is not a good sign. But let's talk about that that yeah.

Speaker 2: 3:15

Yeah, let's jump into it Probably, though, because, yeah, as you were saying to me just before, like when we just came on, because I think the last podcast we did was like the other side of winter last year. So we're just coming into Australian winter now. I think it was the other side of winter and I do. I get these terrible sinus infections. I like they just don't go away. They just stay with me for months. So I'm on this antibiotic at the moment. I can't remember what it is, but, like you know, it's going to be good when your doctor says to you look, it's the strongest thing I can actually give you. So good luck.

Speaker 1: 3:44

Oh God, I was just like sweet.

Speaker 2: 3:46

I was like send me.

Speaker 1: 3:54

And then it makes you feel goddamn awful to make sure you take it all the way to the end. Jack, tell us who you are. I mean, I know who you are, obviously, and we'll talk about that. Jack has been pretty much coaching me for the last. Well, we're in phase eight now, so we can almost say six, eight to 48, can't we really?

Speaker 1: 4:14

48 weeks, pretty much yeah yeah, so it's nearly been 12 months that I've been following on. Now I started doing your well. It started off as a three-day espresso program and then I handed you for an extra day and I've actually made that a extra day. It's just my day and all I do is shuffle my days around and actually do it. Now I'm pumped up and doing that, but I want to talk about that a little bit later on. But tell me who you are, where you've come from and what your background is as well. You've got quite a social media following now, which has developed your business really, really well. Go ahead.

Speaker 2: 4:53

Yeah, man, so the TLDR version for I. Some people might know who I am, some people don't, but yeah, my name is jack hallows. I'm a former face-to-face personal trainer. I now solely coach online, which was a decision that I made just before our last podcast. I think it's now been about 12 months since I've been solely online, which has been one of the best decisions I've ever made. Um, and, yeah, I coach men and women around the world because I, when I first got into training about nine, 10 years ago, what are we now 2025. Yeah, probably about 10 years ago.

Speaker 2: 5:21

Um, I fell for every trick in the book. Like I literally was doing every fad diet, every fad training program. I was taking every goddamn supplement under the sun. Like you know and my, my parents will attest to this at the time, you know I wasn't really working. I was in uni, so you know they were still paying me an allowance back when I was like 19 years old and I was spending that entire allowance on like shitty supplements that weren't doing anything. I was, you know, buying every program I could. I was digesting all this YouTube content and, like, I got shredded man, like I was so lean I was ripped, but then I developed an eating disorder out the back of it because I had no idea what I was doing and I just kept pushing, and pushing, and pushing and it was this grind set kind of mindset, you know, like just keep working, keep working harder.

Speaker 2: 6:02

And um, I realized to myself, I was like you know, this is something that I feel like a lot of people probably go through, and, um, I, I sort of wanted to be an intervention for that, if I could. And I knew I was never going to be smart enough or patient enough to go to uni and do psychology and then go and specialize in eating disorders and all that sort of stuff. I was like that's not me and I'm probably not, to be honest, I'm probably not mentally stable enough for that. So I was like what's the next best thing I can do is? Well, I love fitness, I love training, I love all this sort of stuff and I love figuring out the kind of quote unquote right way for someone to do this stuff and be in great shape while having longevity and sustain their results and their transformations. So why not get into fitness and be the intervention before people need therapy and try and get people down the right road.

Speaker 2: 6:45

So for me it's always been about how can I take people and help them build muscle, get stronger, lose body fat, transform their body but continue doing this for the rest of their life and find other things that they enjoy in fitness. Because most people come to me being like Jack, I want to build my glutes, or Jack, I want to get abs, or Jack, I want to look. It's always Jack, I want this, I want X muscle to look ABC way Right and it's like cool, I love that. But like what else can we uncover along your fitness journey that has you doing this for the rest of your life? So, obviously, some stuff we're going to talk about for yourself.

Speaker 2: 7:17

You know, there's the health side of things as the performance side of things which I think gets forgotten a lot in fitness these days. There's the longevity side of things and there's also, just on a day-to-day basis, waking up and being able to feel confident and assured in your own skin. And I think I'm going to say something potentially controversial here, but like, for me it's like it's not about the body positivity movement which has obviously taken social media by storm at the moment, but it is about taking that idea of kind of like being able to love the skin you're in, and a big part of that is being able to look at yourself in the mirror and go, oh, yeah, okay, like the first thing you did when we got on here, you start flexing your biceps at me. You're like, look at this and I'm like, yeah, man, show that off. Like you said to me, you're like I'm 60 years old, I'm flexing my biceps and stuff and it's like you know, when I was growing up, I remember, like you know, my, my grandparents, for example, are, like you know, these able but fairly frail older people right In their sixties.

Speaker 2: 8:18

And now it's amazing to be able to see people you know I have you're you're probably currently that you're currently my only client who's who's 60, but I've had a lot of clients in their sixties and seventies, even early eighties, who have been resistance training since my like my career's coming on eight, eight and a half years at this point and just seeing people be able to lift weights for life. So I guess that wasn't a TLDR version in the end, but that's effectively what I do is I help people take aesthetic goals and body comp goals and be able to apply all those things to the rest of their life, so that they can actually live a life that fulfills them essentially, I love that.

Speaker 1: 8:54

I think one of the most underestimate. Without any doubt whatsoever, one of the most underestimated things about resistance training is the confidence it gives you outside of the gym in the rest of your life. Now, we spoke about this on the last podcast and I know myself and I've got a few clients that are the same. A lot of shift workers are not into the resistance training. They just don't see it as relevant. It breaks my heart to see how simple it can be to turn things around and start to fall in love with it. Some clients that I've got have fallen out of love with resistance training. They want, you know, oh, I've got to go to the gym, and they see it as a chore. No, go and find something that you really enjoy doing. Oh, really, yeah, go for a walk. Keep it simple, give it a break until all of a sudden, you're wanting to do that. You really want to do it. What about Pilates or yoga or doing something like that? Now, you and I would look at that and go yeah, yeah, but we know they'll be back in time, they will come back. You've just got to be patient with yourself until you can come back to it.

Speaker 1: 10:05

Now, I started with you, I had a bit of a journey and through COVID and that, I let myself go, as everybody did at the time, because no one wanted to train at home, and it was horrible and plus I live in Melbourne, so of course we were locked down longer than anybody else. I think it was brutal, but I came out of that well overweight I would say well overweight and I saw a picture of myself on stage delivering a seminar only probably 12 months ago and I was horrified. Personally, that was me, and I know I shouldn't, because I was feeling good in myself, but I knew that I had to turn it around. Well, anyway, I think 18 months ago I actually gave up alcohol and I haven't touched it since. I first of January 2024 and you know, an addict can always tell you the exact date they stopped, can't they? Yeah, yeah yeah always tell you.

Speaker 1: 10:56

If someone says, oh, a couple of months ago, you know it's bullshit and they're still going, but if they can tell you the exact date, I can tell you they have actually given it away. Right, and I'm going to tell you the exact date. It was a New Year's resolution, so they do work. I gave up alcohol and it changed my life full stop, right, and I know it's helped my sleep and we all know we can go down this line and talk about sleep and things like that as to the importance of it, because people don't realise. But I think just chipping away and starting with you and just having that visual, this is the program. I don't have to think. I think coaches need coaches. Do you agree with that? Coaches have coaches. I'd agree with that. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 11:42

You've got your own. The best decision I ever made in my life was having Coach Mark Carroll as my coach for four years. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 11:47

I agree with that. And I went through Mark's gen pop and also through his art of reverse dieting, which gave me the passion for the nutrition side of it. So I learned how to structure a fat loss phase, how to structure it. I mean, the man's a genius right in that area, yeah, yeah, and it's indisputable that he literally can structure fat loss phases to help you to get to where you want to get to, which I did. I lost significant weight. I was down to 77 kilos at one stage. When I look back at it, I thought, god, I was like a strong rep skeleton.

Speaker 2: 13:28

I looked awful but, you know, I remember the. I remember the transformation photo. I actually saw your transformation photos on his profile before I even knew who you were oh, and then it was like um, I think we spoke for the first time maybe two years ago or something like that, and then I was looking at you and I was like why are you so familiar? I was like what the? And then you're like I'm a policeman in Melbourne. I was like I've never got in trouble in Melbourne.

Speaker 1: 13:49

I was like, what the heck am I doing? And I was like, oh, there you go.

Speaker 2: 13:51

Like gen pop transformations.

Speaker 1: 13:56

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I've seen you that, because that actually got me in a bit of trouble, but anyway, that's the thing and it was the dad bod thing and all the rest of it. So we went through all of that and I think if anybody wants to go to Mark Carroll's profile and just hit the gen pop one, I'm the first one, or I'm first on the profile so people can see that. Anyway, starting training and chipping away, where do you see the fitness industry today in relation to like? There's so much misinformation out there and I know you are excellent on your social media. If no one's following you I'll put the links in afterwards, but where do you see it at the moment? It's just a dumpster fire, isn't it? Social media?

Speaker 2: 14:39

uh, as a whole it can be, yeah, but I so it's hard because you've got to talk about the actual fitness industry and then kind of fitness industry adjacent, right, and it's kind of like I think it's. I was having this conversation with um louisa uh, who obviously we both know I filmed a youtube video with her in in january and we were talking about this in regards to like the. She's a neuroscientist, like in the, the neuro space as well, and it's very much like all of these industries exist separate to the influences that kind of interject into them. They kind of invade the space. So there's a lot of people out there who'd call me an influencer, right, just simply because I have a large following on social media and.

Speaker 2: 15:18

I don't get offended when people call me that, because I'm like you know what? I have almost 200,000 followers. That makes me look like an influencer. Realistically, I see myself as a coach with influence, but these are all just words, right? It's really what you deliver into the space defines what you are and what you do, and there's a lot of like. There's just a lot of people who train and they get semi-decent results and they just put stuff out there because it's like it's what worked for them.

Speaker 2: 15:41

And this is what I fell into the trap of when I first started training is that I'd watch all these guys and girls and I'd be like, okay, well, they're in an incredible shape. So therefore, they clearly know what they're talking about, but they don't. They know how to take the principles that work and apply it to their own individual context. And this is why I've always liked the saying just because you can do something yourself doesn't mean you could do it with other people, right, and it's that kind of like directive there. So you would see this in shift work, right, you might have somebody who's like really, really good at managing their own time and managing their ability to, you know, train while on night shift and all this sort of stuff, and then they give other people the same advice that works for them and you're like, actually, this is really destructive behavior, like all these things that you're doing are just compensatory to be able to get through and you're going to crash and burn in six months and then, unfortunately, you're going to heal from that and all the people who you've told to do these other things they're going to crash and burn three months later and you're not going to be there to pick up the pieces because you've now moved on to the next thing and it's the same in the fitness space as a whole.

Speaker 2: 16:41

It's like you know you, you see it with a carnivore diet at the moment. Right, it's kind of like Paul Saladino. He comes out with this book and he writes all this stuff on the carnivore diet and then two years later he's getting his bloods done and he's like, oh, actually it's. It's really bad for me. My bloods have come back really bad. I've got to have carbs, I can't just live off meat. But you've now got all these people who have bought his book in the last two years who now it's a delayed reaction for them. They're going to get the exact same thing, but it's maybe going to be 12 months down the line and they're maybe going to sit there and go.

Speaker 2: 17:11

Oh well, paul's a sellout now because I believe in this carnivore stuff and it's working for me and it's like he was, but like he's got money and resources and all that sort of stuff to get ahead of it and fix himself. Like you know sorry, sandra from down the road who barely has enough for a gym membership and stuff like you're going to be screwed. You know, and that's the problem with the fitness industry is that it's not actually the industry itself. That's that bad, like I actually think, compared to when I started training people, the overall knowledge that the general coach has is actually almost too much for what it is that they should be doing I see coaches looking at things like blood work and all that sort of stuff and I'm like you shouldn't know this.

Speaker 1: 17:50

Even though you know it.

Speaker 2: 17:53

You shouldn't be dealing in that stuff. We're obviously going to talk a bit about stuff like that later because we're going to have an anecdotal conversation about our own experiences. But I have clients who sit there and they're like can you look at my bloods? And I'm like why I'm a coach, like you know. It's like I can tell you what, like a good testosterone ranges and stuff, but I can't sit there and tell you like medically, this is what you need to be doing and all that sort of stuff.

Speaker 2: 18:22

But unfortunately it's the influencers and it's the younger kind of lifters coming through who they have this incredible sense of Dunning-Kruger where they're just like I've been lifting for a year and now I know all this sort of stuff and it's like, oh sorry, but you don't really. So to kind of answer the main question, I think the industry as a whole is moving in the right direction overall. I think, as a generalized kind of answer the main question, I think the industry as a whole is moving in the right direction overall. I think. I think as a generalized kind of statement. But I think unfortunately the industry adjacent is not and they're finding more and more outrageous ways to get clicks and to get views and to be heard in an ever-growing kind of sphere. Because, let's face it, there's a lot of money in fitness, there's a lot of money in health coaching and there's even more money in just speaking in absolutes and getting people to pay you for things that really you have no idea what you're talking about, but you're very good at marketing.

Speaker 2: 19:13

Yeah, so I think that's the problem.

Speaker 1: 19:15

I think the crazy thing is as well is these people are creating problems that don't exist and then selling the solution for it, which is what I see all the time. I'll put it on the table right now. I think the carnivore diet, without any doubt whatsoever, is the most dangerous dietary advice that they can possibly give anywhere anyone. So if anyone's listening to this and you're doing pure carnivore, I'd be quite worried long term, yeah and look, but again, that's the thing.

Speaker 2: 19:46

And long term is the key here, right, because it's like there are certain autoimmune diseases and certain mental health conditions where the research is actually kind of positive for stripping back someone's diet and really just getting them to eat meats, fats and salts for a little while to help the system balance, right. But it's like anything. It's like the keto diet Um, don't quote me on this, but I'm pretty sure the keto diet was developed for epilepsy Correct. And it's like in children. It's like, yeah, there you go. And it's like, oh shit, okay, well, no-transcript eating is protein. That's not ketogenesis. So it's like the whole point of the diet is to put you into ketogenesis and then you're eating a shit ton of protein that gets converted into glucose anyway, so then you're not even doing that. It's like, um, and that's the thing, man. It's like long, all of these diets, they come from somewhere. And it's like.

Speaker 2: 20:47

It's like anabolic steroids, right, most anabolic steroids were compounds that have either been proven to help with some kind of condition down the road or were trialed for that condition and maybe didn't work and then had other properties that were then bastardized and adopted by by bodybuilders to be like, oh, it gets me jacked, um, but it's like, again, this wasn't a long-term solution for the medical condition. So if you haven't even got the medical condition, this isn't a long-term solution for you either. Like, um, yeah, so I? I think that's that is the problem, um, and, as you said, they're creating problems that don't necessarily like.

Speaker 2: 21:22

So, on the other, cortisol face. Cortisol face what I haven't heard. That one that's a good one. Oh so it was this woman and she's like, um, when my diet was set up to give me like high cortisol, and she was like I'm really puffy and stuff. And then she's like and then I did this, this and this and I got rid of cortisol face. I'm looking at it, it I'm like you just lost 15 pounds. You think you just have less face fat, that's it. You just have a jawline. Now, that's it. I had a coach.

Speaker 1: 21:50

He had a coach who was quite well-known I like to think he was quite well-known and very good at what he did and I was shift working and he was smashing me in the gym. Smashing me I'd be coming home from night shift and being smashed in the gym. And he told me that the reason why I wasn't responding was because I had adrenal fatigue. And he still talks about adrenal fatigue today and the evidence is blatantly clear now that there is no such thing as adrenal fatigue. You get tired. There is no such thing as adrenal fatigue. You get tired.

Speaker 1: 22:28

And the more I've learnt now, jack, particularly around this circadian disruption and training and we'll talk about that in another whole context, maybe on your podcast. But when it comes to shift workers with circadian disruption, you are already stressed, your body is already stressed and if you start training a stressed body, all you do is elevate more problems. You just keep that cortisol increase which inhibits fat loss, which impacts on sleep, which causes so many issues that I've learned around about this now. That is causing so many problems, and I think one of the biggest problems that we see today as well is what Jenny did doesn't mean it's going to work for you and just because Jenny went carnivore or she went to the keto diet and she lost three or four kilos. You know, and I know that's right you lost water, that's what you lost, and as soon as you eat that back, that's what you lost and as soon as you eat that back, that's what you're getting back.

Speaker 1: 23:24

People are so fixated with the scale instead of how they feel, and I want to talk about how I feel now, compared. Now, as I said, I'm 60 years old, right? So, um, and I'm very proud of myself with where I'm actually at with my health and fitness. I stay on top of I'm proud of you too by the way.

Speaker 1: 23:43

Thanks, mark. I stay on top of everything, right? I do all my tests, everything, everything. Whatever it's got to be done, I do. But I know and understand the importance of resistance training for everybody and it's so important. And we talk about Louisa. There's two things that Louisa talks about and we're talking about Louisa Nicola, to those that are not sure but Louisa talks about two things. As far as for longevity, it's movement exercise. We have to do exercise for longevity Over the top of everything she talks about. What I love about her as well is how much she talks about creatine for the brain and of course, we have a lot of emerging evidence around creatine for our shift working community as well, which is great.

Speaker 1: 24:29

But I chipped away and I remember and if anybody's looking for somewhere to start with training, start going once a week and just walk into a gym and get the feel for it and then go and see a coach and get a program that you can work with, because I think walking into the gym with confidence and I walk into the gym now and I've got to be honest with you and I'll say this on this podcast today I walked into the gym today and I thought I was pretty freaking good today. I walked in, I walked straight over to the bench. I set the bench up exactly how I wanted it, grabbed the weights that I wanted, put them on the floor, sat down, opened the app on the phone Right, this is what I'm doing. First, bang I knew that because I'd already checked that in the car walked in, sat down and in 60 minutes I was out of the gym having trained, buckled because that program that you've just given me for a Wednesday is frigging brutal. But I felt so good and confident because I've done something.

Speaker 1: 25:26

Did I lose weight in the gym today? No, did I lose weight over the last week or two in the gym? Oh well, who knows? Probably not Not from resistance training, that's for sure. But it's given me a whole world of confidence in so many areas and it clears you up and makes you feel good, doesn't it?

Speaker 2: 25:43

of confidence in so many areas, and it clears you up and makes you feel good, doesn't it? Oh, for sure, and I actually heard Chris Williamson talking about this with.

Speaker 2: 25:48

Alex Hormozy, I think it was. It was either Hormozy or it was definitely Hormozy a few months back and he said the coolest part about going to the gym is that naturally it is a game of delayed gratification, yep, but you also get instant gratification in the session because you can see what your delayed gratification is going to bring you. So when you're training, what happens? When you lift weights, you pump blood into the way, into the muscle, so you get a quote unquote pump. And what happens when you have a pump? You look sick, you know. You sit there and you go oh my God, like I look like that, what the hell. And it's like if you keep consistently going to the gym like so for you on your, your shoulders and arms, day cause guys, rog did hound me. He was like day four. He's like do not give me anything other than shoulders and arms.

Speaker 1: 26:32

I want to.

Speaker 2: 26:33

I want to wear a singlet and I want to look jacked and I was like done Um. So on that day you go in and you get a big shoulders and arm pump. You wear a singlet, like. You look at yourself and you're like oh wow, if I, if I continue coming for the next three to six months and I keep my nutrition in a good place and I'm consistent with my training, that's what I might look like before I start lifting. And then imagine what I'm going to look like when I start lifting. And then imagine in six months what I'm going to look like before I start. Oh wow, like something. So you get this preview of like what it is that you could look like in six months if you're consistent and you keep going. And that in itself just adds to that confidence because it's like, oh damn, like. That's me, like let's go, let's go, let's do this but jack.

Speaker 1: 27:17

I compare myself to people my age who are struggling to get on and off and and you can't help yourself when I walk into a supermarket, I feel a lot younger than I am, without any doubt whatsoever, and I wander around a shopping centre and things like that, and I look at people around and I think I've retired and I think I feel so young to have retired. Have I made a mistake? And then I remember I've done 40 years in the cops, right, so it's a lot more than anybody else. Right Now I'm 60. But it's the training that gives you the confidence, without any doubt. I don't know what it is, but you just get this sense of accomplishment that you're accomplished, you're doing something, and it's not about, oh, you've got to walk around in a string of singlets sucking on protein shakes. It's just about what it does to your body in releasing all those beautiful endorphins that run through us and get us feeling really good. Now I just want to talk about 18 months ago. I had my bloods done. I got my testosterone checked, and you and I have had this discussion in the background, but I got my bloods checked because I stay on top. I get my bloods done every six months anyway. Being a shift worker, I think every shift worker should have their blood checked every six months anyway, because it's an early warning sign of issues. So I've always done that. So that's my first tip. But I had my testosterone checked. The doctor said, well, just have a look at it. And it was okay. It wasn't outstanding, but what you'd expect for someone who was, you know, 58, 59. But my last 12 months of continual training, four days a week and I've sent you the old and the new, so you've seen the numbers In 18 months my testosterone has gone through the roof, right, and when I say through the roof, my doctor looked at it because I was. I'm not going to deny it.

Speaker 1: 29:19

I had the conversation with him around TRT, that's what it was. Because I thought, no, I'm going to go really crazy here. And I thought, okay, I want to have a chat with him about TRT. And he said well, we're not doing anything until I've tested your bloods. He tested my bloods and he started laughing at me when I went and saw him and I said what? And he goes you, okay, that's probably not so good for me. And he goes no, this is excellent. And I went no, how am I going to get jacked now Like I want to get totally out. I want to be off the planet strong, right, this is not good. What am I doing? We've all been there. We've all been there. We've all been there, wait a minute. And then I thought, hang on.

Speaker 1: 30:03

Because my son and I have had this conversation around TRT, you know, because he's always chasing the pumps and wants to be big and strong. Admittedly, my son just walks into a gym and looks at a weight and just bulges, you know, like he just gains muscle, like it's going out of fashion, which annoys me. But yeah, in my situation I'm thinking, oh, this is no good, what am I doing here? I can't get the TRT. I can't get TRT. And he's saying, rog, just keep working. And do you know what? That's the key. Just keep working, just keep going.

Speaker 1: 30:31

Because if you keep your diet and your sleep, you know everyone says, oh, how do you get big? You know how do you improve your testosterone, your own? It's pretty simple, mate good diet, as in, just whole foods and just good diet, no special diet, just just enjoy everything. 80, 80, 20, um, nail your sleep. And I've got a a whole new theory around sleep.

Speaker 1: 30:53

For shift workers in particular, I think the seven to nine hour recommendation is wrong. Um, and it's the myth. I know I'm going against science here, but I think we're talking about shift workers. It creates disordered behaviors from people, so that's my take on that. But get your sleep right Consistent bedtime, consistent wake up time and train, not ridiculously.

Speaker 1: 31:17

Just go four days a week Well, it used to be three, but it's now four, with a singlet on the fourth day, brian. But we go in and we do that, we go in and we do that and I just love it. But the benefit that I'm getting out of that internally with my blood cholesterol, with taking the vitamin D, getting the strength, getting everything, my bloods are just a fantastic panel of bloods now and that makes me really proud, after 40 years of shift work, to be in a position to actually be like that. Because I know a lot of people that have only shift work for a very short period of time, that are a buckled mess. A buckled mess and it seems such a long way back, doesn't it, for people you must get.

Speaker 2: 32:02

Clients come to you and you look at them and you think if only you really knew just how long it's going to take yeah, for sure, and I think you know, like I remember even, um, when we saw each other at clean health last year so that would have been april last year, so just over a year ago, right and um, I remember then like how stressed you were and like how you know, frustrated and stressed you were about situations that have been going on in the background for a couple of months.

Speaker 2: 32:28

And, like you know, I think the biggest thing is you just said there is like training Again, it doesn't need to be five, six days a week, it just needs to be enough whereby you can, you basically you treat the gym as a safe space. You know, you go into the gym and you leave all the shit outside and you come in, you put your headphones on and you just commit to your first exercise. Yep, and whatever your first exercise is like, even if your first exercise is a calf raise, who cares? Like commit to your first exercise because once you've done the first exercise, you'll do the rest, you'll stay great, you know, and and that's it.

Speaker 2: 33:00

And it's like you. Obviously, as you said before, when you train, you release those endorphins, so you've got that dopamine rush. You're going to feel really good. Not only that, you're going to feel like you've done something that benefits you today positively, health-wise. And then, alongside that routine like this is what people don't realize is generally, how often do you go into a training session and you go to yourself Wow, sweet, I've earned a McDonald's, let's go get that Like?

Speaker 1: 33:21

very infrequently right, it doesn't happen.

Speaker 2: 33:23

You come out of a training session and you go shit, where's my protein, my anabolic window? Oh my God, even though, even though, like, we all know the anabolic windows at the moment, but everyone goes protein, okay, what do I pair with protein? Uh, good, carbs. What do I do here? Like, I'm going to, I'm going to make this food and I'm going to have that. I'm going to have this for dinner and then, yeah, okay, at the weekend you might let your hair down a little bit and have a pizza or something for dinner. But cool, like, again, you know you, you've done the like, using the word you've earned. You know this, this nice thing over the weekend, but like, having this is going to be offset by what you're doing during the week, rather than being someone who just sits on your ass all day and then still has the pizza anyway, you know. So it's like you know, and my point with that is that, since you yourself have been following this very structured routine, you know, you've been saying to me in our, in our text conversations and stuff like, oh, my diet's been so much better lately, or I really managed to get my sleep in because I want to go to the gym earlier, I want to get my steps in earlier. I want to do it and I want to get that done. And then it was like you know, oh, you know what Like I remember the other week, like you'd had a bad, we'd had a conversation about something and, um, you know, you were like, but you know what? Like I'll text you in a bit, I'm going to the gym. And you went to the gym. You came back and you're like man, I feel better now, my head's clearer. Like, like, I'm ready to attack this, I've got my next steps. And it's like and that's what training does for people it keeps this thread of consistency even when life is quite tumultuous. It's like, if you've got this training program, that you can progress. You're always doing something positive for yourself and then these other aspects start to fall in. So you're right when you talk about testosterone.

Speaker 2: 34:54

Um, I actually did an experiment on myself for two years. I did a two year experiment. So, um, for those of you who don't know my story, I was I talked to the beginning I had an eating disorder when I was younger. Um, and I actually had a little period a couple of years ago where I relapsed, which I've never talked about on social media, never talked about on a podcast or anything, but it's very relevant to this conversation A little relapse. It wasn't for very long, it was a relapse of a couple of weeks.

Speaker 2: 35:17

I was very stressed, I was in a very bad place and I went and got my bloods done afterwards because any kind of eating disorder behavior. You know, I was always like I need to stay on top of my health, I need to make sure that I'm not damaging myself. So when I was right of mind again, I went and got my bloods done. I got like a ECG done on my heart, I got all these other tests done and everything and I was like, okay, everything looks, quote, unquote, sound. But I was, like you know, for me at the time, 25, 26 year old male, I was like my test isn't low, but like that could be so much better, like that could be so much higher. So what I did was I went away and I spent, you know, know, the next sort of six months looking into natural ways to boost testosterone and I was like, cool, I'm now starting to feel a little bit better in myself.

Speaker 2: 35:59

I'm gonna go and I'm gonna give this a go, right, I'm gonna try this sort of stuff out and I did, and a lot and none of this was around giving up processed foods or not microwaving things or not having my phone in my back pocket or anything like that. It was was literally I'm going to commit to regular sleep and wake times. Like you said and that was a conversation you and I had I was going to commit to at least seven hours of sleep a night. Obviously, in the middle of this, I gave up face-to-face PT so I didn't have to get up as early, which helped as well. I could have more routinized sort of stuff. And then, when it came to stress management and work, I was like, okay, well, I need to put some things into place here. And then, on top of that, finally, I was like all right supplementation that we know actually works. So for me, this is again, this is speaking from anecdote, this is just what I take.

Speaker 2: 36:40

I'm not saying this is going to work for everyone, but I was like all right zinc, shown to be really good for male reproductive health and also for immune system, which we know mine clearly sucks. Obviously, fish oil unrelated, but um, obviously fish oil unrelated, but I was like great supplement. Always good to have the omega 3s. I don't eat that much fatty fish, so I'm happy to take that. Um, I then. So I was taking ashwagandha on top of that because it helps me, anecdotally, to fall asleep. I was cycling on and off that every like 30 days or so. Good, um. And then on top of that I was taking vitamin d, because, as we all know, vitamin d very good, especially in the winter. Um, so that was my little experiment and my testosterone went from. It was 21 nanomoles or something like that, my my total uh, back a couple of years ago. I then had my test done in November and my test was up to 27.8, um, which was a huge increase. Um, and then I was like you know. And then in February I was, I was like no-transcript, everything, I was like bingo. And then my test was up again to 29.2 at that point.

Speaker 2: 37:46

And all these things that I changed were just positive lifestyle changes, with a supplementary keyword routine alongside that with the supplements. And, as you said, dietary-wise, it was just consistency. It was consistent whole foods. The last six months for dinner, every night that I eat dinner by myself, I literally have the same thing and it's some form of lean meat, generally steak with a salad bowl, beetroot avocado and a little bit of spelt sourdough and that's it every night. Consistency consistency breeds results. So, yeah, when it comes to all that sort of stuff, it's like none of those are revolutionary behaviors, they're all just.

Speaker 2: 38:24

And they all started with me going okay. Well, my training at the moment was actually too much. I was training six days a week. I was pushing too hard, I was too obsessed with how I looked, so I pulled all that back and I went. I'm going to train with a low volume approach, four or five days a week, depending on how busy my week is, and I'm going to start having fun with my training again. I'm going to just do five, six movements and I'm just going to try and get strong and I'm going to eat a bit more food and I'm going to have fun with it again.

Speaker 2: 38:48

Um, you know, and that that made a world of difference and it's like you're now seeing the exact same thing.

Speaker 2: 38:53

That was one of the things that you said to me. You're like I just want to enjoy training again. Man, obviously that was the thought process of how can we best use this as an experiment to see what would work for shift workers who are really busy as well. Correct, and referencing it to your previous context of when you were really in the trenches would this have worked for you, or would this have worked for you, or would this have been too much sort of thing? And straight away, you know you, you said to me you're like okay, yeah, sweet, this works. Now how do I have more fun with this? Um, you know, and that's how we've now been able to get and that's doing all your steps, you're still going and playing pickleball every week. You're still very active in your own life. It's like it's an hour out of your day. If that, three days, four days a week, in order to now have these massive benefits that have then kind of snowballed out of it, and it's really cool to see.

Speaker 1: 39:49

Yeah, thank you, because I think it's something that's really important that we understand that if somebody followed me around and said I'm going to do exactly what you do, they would not be able to do it right and a lot of people would not be able to do it because I have it's like an onion. You know, you keep putting the layers on it, you keep building and building, and this is where, when clients come to us as coaches, to start off with, I think they want to know and they're all standing there waiting at the letterbox for the magic pill to arrive that all the fat falls off and they get jacked. I want to be toned, right, I want to be toned, but anyway Don't get me started.

Speaker 1: 40:31

Yeah, I know, I know I want to be toned. Know, I want to be toned, everyone wants to be toned. But you've got to lose the fat off the muscle. That's what tones you.

Speaker 2: 40:38

But anyway gotta have muscle in the first place that's the thing you gotta have muscle to tone in the first place. That's what people don't understand. It's like people come in through the door like I want to be toned and I'm like build some muscle.

Speaker 1: 40:47

Then and how do we build muscle? Jack, how do we build muscle?

Speaker 2: 40:51

uh, well, according to social media, um, we actually uh just photosynthesize new tissue, uh, when we imagine the carnivore diet working. So that's how that's how it works we lift weights, guys.

Speaker 1: 41:02

We lift weights we lift weights and we eat food, real food. We eat real food, and that's, that's can we dive into that actually. Yes, can we?

Speaker 2: 41:11

dive into that a little bit sorry very tangential sort of thing. So this is something that I actually want to talk about a little bit, because everyone's scared of food right for what.

Speaker 2: 41:19

Everyone is scared of eating more yep, yeah and like so, exactly as you said that whole foods need to be a staple, like you know, for for the listeners, because, like you know, at the end of the day we're kind of, I guess, talking like a coach to client here, right, so for you, they're probably going to resonate more with your side of this than what I eat in a day, because I'm the robotic coach who's in the fitness industry. Guys, I still like pastries, okay.

Speaker 2: 41:43

Um like what, what are some go-to you know for you, what are some go-to foods that you you have found have been really beneficial for you on this kind of like body recomposition journey? And like it doesn't have to be meals, but like what are some go-to things that you've been enjoying? And even if it's stuff that you look at and you're like, yeah, the science behind this is pretty big as well, or whether it's just personal preference, like what are some things that you've been implementing?

Speaker 1: 42:05

a lot of meals, I, absolutely, I love this question. Thank you, because I think one of the keys for a lot of people and a lot of people can't do it, but I think if you get a set breakfast that you really enjoy, stick with that. And if you've got a set lunch that you really enjoy, stick with that and just mix up your dinners, because if you can crush your breakfast and your lunch and then just give yourself some variety for dinner not be obsessed so every day I can tell you this. Now, jack, every day, for probably the last, I reckon, 12 months, I get up, I grab three Wheat Bix, I crush them into a bowl, I put a scoop of chocolate protein powder in it, I put my two scoops of creatine in it and I put a couple of tablespoons of Greek yogurt in. I stir all that up and I have that for breakfast every day, every day, without fail. Every day I have that. That's what I train on. I go to the gym and I feel phenomenal because I've got those carbs running through the system. And we don't realize fasted versus we can have that discussion as well fasted versus fuelled. We're always going to train better fuel. I don't care what anyone says, whether it's a liquid fuel or whether it's like what I've done. So, like what I do with my breakfast, I make it a priority to make sure that I've eaten before, so I don't go to the gym until I've eaten. Now you see me on my social media do my bold brews. Right, because I get my caffeine, I get my carbs, I get that. I think that's a great alternative for someone who doesn't have the time in the morning but needs a grab and go. We don't train fasted. It's a waste of time personally, right, you don't train well, so I have that.

Speaker 1: 43:49

Then for lunches, I always have a sourdough roll and I just put some cheese in it, some lean protein and some jalapenos, because I'm just a jalapeno bean. And I have that for lunch because it's carbs and it's protein and it's got the fats. It keeps me satiated all afternoon and I have my couple of pieces of fruit during the day and when I get to dinner, I can pretty much have whatever I want. Like, we still go for proteins. Vegetables we eat a lot of vegetables. We never, ever in this house, get takeaway. We always cook every single time. I could not tell you the last time we had takeaway, because we just really enjoy the cooking and doing that. So we try and mix our salads up, we get our healthy fats, we get our vegetables, we get our colors and we put a lean protein with it. We had a lot of fish in this house and the chicken fish chicken.

Speaker 1: 44:46

We try and have red meat maybe once a week, because that's all you really should do.

Speaker 1: 44:50

But, redmo, I honestly believe if I could give anyone a really hot tip around nutrition, it's to stick with the same breakfast and same lunch every day because it's routine, it's really easy to stick with and you know exactly what you're doing and what you need for it and then just mix your lunches up and people have got to stop being afraid of having a big breakfast as well.

Speaker 1: 45:17

And I can talk about the chrononutrition side of things because there's more and more evidence emerging of the biological impacts of eating more in the mornings compared to after 3 o'clock.

Speaker 1: 45:30

I've got my own theories on this that I'll talk about when we talk on your podcast about it. I honestly believe that a lot of us should be eating low GI from 3 o'clock onwards lower GI and the reason why I say that is because it stabilises blood sugar and it also stops us from craving that sweetness in the evening after. You know how many times do we have dinner at 6 o'clock and then by 7, 8 o'clock, we're looking for that sweet treat, that bicky, or you know, that bit of ice cream or that gelato. We're all looking for it, whereas if we were to stick with more low GI foods, it stabilises our blood sugar and it keeps us more full, particularly for our shift working community, and I've actually released a resource on this on eating low GI if you're going into night shift or on afternoon shift, and the difference it's made to people has been enormous, and it's only my own theories.

Speaker 2: 46:30

It makes sense.

Speaker 1: 46:31

It makes a lot of sense when you lot of sense? Yeah, it does it.

Speaker 1: 46:33

When you think of it it does absolutely make sense. Well, we should really be any a lot of low gi all the time anyway. But I just think, eat what you can in the morning and lunchtime and then just go later on into um, go later on into the more lower gi foods. Now you know, I've got a resource on it we can go through. You know there's all sorts of low GI foods and you've only got to Google what's low GI. You don't have to go oh, it's a diet got to go low. Just start introducing some low GI foods and enjoying it.

Speaker 1: 47:03

It doesn't mean you have to have boiled or steamed chicken with brown rice and a piece of steamed broccoli. It doesn't mean that at all. Heaven forbid. I don't do that, jack. I don't weigh my food and I don't track at all right, and I literally can do it by eye and look and roughly get an idea and some days I'm over, some days I'm under. It balances itself out over the week. I do hit 12 to 14, well, minimum 14,000 steps every day at the moment and I just enjoy it. It's my time. So, in answer to that question, I honestly think that. Fish and chicken, obviously, and don't be afraid of using chicken thighs. Why? Because they're freaking delicious, right, they're just delicious. Yeah, they've got a bit more fatty on them, but they're delicious, you know what I mean. Like you can put them in a sandwich, you can put them in a roll. You can put some cheese with it, some tomatoes, some lettuce. You've got a delicious roll. I think we underestimate the sandwich, the humble sandwich. I think we underestimate it. Okay.

Speaker 2: 48:04

I agree with this. I agree with this. Big time I've had debates about this. I am a sandwich lover sandwich lover.

Speaker 1: 48:16

I love a good sandwich, yeah. Yeah, I just think we underestimate what we can. You know what the good thing about a sandwich is. You can make it to what you like as to how you like it. If you want to put tuna and lettuce in it, lock yourself out like donate that in the lunch room, but if you want to do that, go for your, go for your life. Um, you can put whatever you like in it. That makes it nice and delicious for you as well. Why we demonize bread and carbs is beyond me.

Speaker 2: 48:39

It fills you up right, but that's the problem, right? That's what people don't understand, right? So this is my theory as to where all this like carbohydrate hate came from. Right, because I understand where the like the vitriol around donuts and pastries and all that sort of stuff comes from because they are high calorie foods. They are very low in nutritional density. Yeah, basically, they taste great, but there's a reason that they taste great, right, whereas bread and all this sort of stuff and pasta, they do make you feel heavy because they make you feel full, and I genuinely think that before people were properly educated on nutrition, this is where a lot of this comes from and, like you know, my mom used to say this a lot like when we first started, cause my mom actually got me into like tracking calories and nutrition and stuff.

Speaker 2: 49:25

She's the first one to download my fitness now and you know it was always kind of like yeah, these foods make me feel heavy. And you hear people say this all the time. They're like oh, I can't eat pasta and bread. I'm so heavy afterwards and it's like you feel heavy because the carbohydrates are expanding in your stomach and filling you up. They're drawing all that water and that is a good thing. When you're dieting, people don't realize. It's like you actually want to be satiated and it's like you look at the satiety index potatoes they came in so high and like, yeah, when I eat a lot of potatoes, I feel full ass, but I'm like that's a good thing. That means I ain't going to be hungry for a few hours, which for me is unheard of, because I'm always hungry.

Speaker 1: 50:03

I am too, I think the other thing, too, is a lot of people underestimate too Jack that starchy carbs. So I think we, and particularly for people as we go through not so much this time of the year but we go through the summer, when you heat and cool potato heat and cool, pasta heat and cool rice.

Speaker 2: 50:21

It's a starchy carb.

Speaker 1: 50:23

We don't absorb all the calories from it, but it keeps us full forever. Right, why do people don't put some chicken with a cold pasta salad or with a cold rice salad or with you know something like that? It's beyond me. Because it's delicious, right. People go to the party and they see the potato salad and they go, ooh, no mention all the calories in that Potato. Ooh, but you only have to have a little bit and it fills you up. It's just amazing. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 50:52

Yeah, man, and that's the thing. But that's that's where people aren't. So this is the thing. Right, you talk to people. I imagine you get the same coaching people, right, you kind of ask them like what's your, what would you rate your nutritional knowledge? Yeah, they'll be like I, five out of five, like I track calories. It's like okay, cool, well, you know, did you know this, did you know that? And they'll be like no, what? Like?

Speaker 2: 51:12

sort of thing it's like yeah, it's like exactly these are the things that people don't realize. That can be massive game changers, you know. And it's like um, just a real life example. For me at the moment, like with some of my clients, like I find female clients, especially when they diet right, they're on such low calories comparatively to say what you or I could diet on um, because I weigh kilograms. So therefore I can diet on 24, 2,500 calories, but 52 kilo Tina from down the road or whatever she's probably going to have to diet on 14, 1500 calories. It's just the stark reality of the size of human that she is. Bowel movement regularity becomes very low.

Speaker 1: 51:49

Once or twice a week.

Speaker 2: 51:50

Yep, once or twice a week, exactly. And it's kind of like that then impacts where the scale goes. It impacts mindset, impacts how you feel, and it's like you then start doing a deeper dive and it's like this is the problem with solely having an if it fits your macros approach. It's like, well, what's your fiber at? Oh, your fiber is at like seven, eight grams a day because you're literally just eating. Okay, we need to fix that. Let's get that right up. And it's like, if you're a blanket recommendation, everyone's going to be different. I eat way more fiber than this and I find I can tolerate it. Some people can't, but I really like the 10 to 12 grams per thousand calories.

Speaker 2: 52:22

If someone's tracking kind of recommendation for fiber. Some people can go as high as 20 grams per thousand calories. Especially vegetarians eat a lot of beans, legumes and stuff Cool. Especially vegetarians eat a lot of beans, legumes and stuff cool. If it suits, it suits um, but also little things, like pineapple, for example.

Speaker 2: 52:37

People don't realize like pineapple contains an enzyme believe it's pronounced bromelain um which helps you break down protein. It's like if you have a really high protein diet and that's kind of making up a lot of your calories because if you're, you know, 52 kilos, you're probably going to be eating 90 to 100 grams of protein a day while dieting. That's a fair like that's probably a fourth of your calories for the day. You need stuff to help break that down. So having a naturally occurring digestive enzyme, which means you don't have to go out and buy digestive enzymes and take all those great, it's going to help break down that protein and make digestion a little bit easier and it's these little things that people don't quite get. But but just to come back to the, the question to you like, what I really love about your approach there is that, yeah, okay, you're not tracking, but you have this very like balanced, consistent day of eating right.

Speaker 1: 53:22

So it's like as you said, consistency breeds results.

Speaker 2: 53:24

So like this is why things like carnivore actually work for people to lose body fat, aside from the removing the calories is you're so limited in what you can eat. It becomes a routine practice every single day of what it is that you're going to eat Same things with like an OMAD diet. I would never recommend anybody to do one meal a day, but the reason why some people have success with it is, again, they can't eat that many calories in one meal, but like they generally eat the same things in the one meal because they have things that they look forward to and they have things they want to tick off. And it's like if you could apply that sort of consistency to your day again.

Speaker 2: 53:56

As you said, same breakfast every morning I do the same thing. My breakfast every morning is a smoked salmon and avocado bagel that I make at home and I have that with a black coffee. And then generally my second meal before I train is usually protein oats, and I just change up the flavor of the oats and the flavor of the protein to keep it interesting. Sometimes I use dark chocolate, sometimes I don't whatever, but again it then allows you with that consistency if you are someone who tracks as well. If you eat the same two meals all the time, you know what they are. If you know you've got a thousand of your 2200 calories boxed off for the day in those two meals, you then know dinner can really be whatever you want, as long as it's within those numbers. But you're only actively having to track one meal per day and that all of a sudden brings down decision fatigue.

Speaker 2: 54:40

It brings down issues with the tracking, you're basically putting yourself in this position where you can still have variety, you can still have balance. But to have balance you have to actually have the other side of the coin as well. To have balance, you have to actually have the other side of the, the other side of the coin as well. So it's like a hundred percent for me. I know, if I eat my bagel with salmon and avocado and stuff and then I eat my protein oats, I have my. I have the rockabee shakes post-workout at the moment as well. Um, if I can't get muscle nation go jack 10% off shakes, um, I'll do that.

Speaker 2: 55:18

Thanks brother, thank you. Discount code um sponsored by healthy ship. Um, yeah, so like I have my protein shake after that and then I find I'm not very hungry after I train I trained before. We did this podcast as well. Like I'm generally quite busy in the afternoons, it ties me through, and then I know for dinner tonight, like I'm maintaining at the moment I maintain like 3,500 calories, so I know tonight you know I'm going to have whatever the hell I want for dinner and it's going to be fine.

Speaker 2: 55:36

I probably don't even have to track it because there's no way I'm going to eat that many calories in one meal. So it's like you know, you can kind of take away all the stress of nutrition just by being consistent with what you do and even having two different breakfasts that you like, right. It's like if you're on your training days, if you want to have protein oats before you train because it's more carby, and then on days where you don't train, you want to have salmon, avocado and eggs because you don't want as many carbs, because you're not training and you don't need them as much. Great, they're probably going to be similar amounts of calories. It's just the fat and carb ratios that are slightly different. Doesn't matter, it's cool, you've got it in the right way around. If you're doing the salmon and eggs on the day you don't train and the protein notes on the day you do for lunch, as you said, you might then go okay, days where I'm not training, my day's not broken up as much, so that's where I'm going to have my cold pasta or my cold potatoes, because I've got an extra hour and a half in the day. I've kind of got to fill between meals. So I'm going to have something that fills me up a little bit different. You might have your, your bold brew or something like that after you train, and then have some fruit with that or something, some quick digesting carbs post-workout, and then again dinners can still cycle through whatever the hell you want, because you've got the calories left and you don't have to make as many decisions throughout the day, because it's all kind of boxed and it's like.

Speaker 2: 56:47

That's where I've changed my mind on meal plans. I used to be very against meal plans. Now I'm against what I call like a well, I call it something different, but it's not right for a camera but like I call it like a rotating meal plan basically. So like I look at yes, we have a fixed structured first two meals of the day and then we just have this like floating selection where it's like look at your protein sources, what do you want? Okay, on the non-training days you have higher fats earlier in the day, so let's go leaner protein. So we've got chicken, turkey, steak and white fish as your options, and then on your training days you've had higher carbs earlier, so we can have more fats, and that works well too, because we kind of want some more fats away from training. So let's do that. And then that's where we can have chicken thigh, or we can have salmon, or we can have even a fattier cut of steak if you want.

Speaker 2: 57:32

Like, god forbid, you treat yourself once in a while, you know, and it's like you can pick and choose these meals that you want to make and it's kind of like that way. At least you have an idea of what you want to do. And I find it's like recipe content on social media has become so whack, because it's kind of like it's taking all these whole foods away and it's now putting all these like replacement things in. And I'm like, okay, it's cool to have protein pancakes every now and then, or to have like a, a wheat bix bowl. It's like an overnight wheat bix with with sweeteners and stuff in. Cool, great, I'm not anti-sweetener, but, like some of you who are eating this four or five times a day and wondering why you're distended and bloated all the time, it's like well, how much sweetener did you have today?

Speaker 2: 58:08

Oh, you had five diet cokes, you had a monster ultra and you had four things. Okay, cool, let's work on that. Let's remove that grenade bar, first and foremost because with all of that other stuff, you're probably going to be shitting a brick tomorrow, um, you know. So that importance of whole foods again, and and I think it all, as you said, comes down to having that overly balanced approach, which I really like.

Speaker 2: 58:29

so, yeah, I can give you, give you two a pluses on that one mate.

Speaker 1: 58:33

Thank you, I love that. I've always been pretty much against the evidence and writing against meal plans because it creates disorder, but I do think I'm going to be honest with you. I'm actually coaching a client at the moment that I am super excited, coaching Like she's going to be a jet. I can see the genetics. I just know that we're going to turn her into something truly special. And she's vegetarian, so I've actually done a. She's told me that she's happy to eat the same thing every day and I said we won't do that right, so she's on the same breakfast, same lunch. It suits her down to the ground.

Speaker 1: 59:17

The one thing that you said out of all of that that you just said that I want to back into is decision fatigue, and I think the evidence supports decision fatigue so strongly and I mean so strongly that we get to the end of the day and if you're a person who tracks retrospectively, it makes it really, really hard. Doesn't it Like you come home and you think, oh, I'm beside myself, I'm starving, what am I going to have? You eat something and then you go to put it in your tracker. If you're that way later on, well then you can't, and then you're trying to track it and then you think, oh, screw this, I can't be bothered, and you don't. And this is where people make the mistake.

Speaker 1: 59:58

I feel that if you just crush your protein and carbs in the morning and your protein and carbs at lunchtime, and then, and you've got that, you take all the decision fatigue out of it. You know exactly what you've got to shop for, you know exactly what you need. Like you know, every week you go and get smoked salmon, you get a bagel, you get sliced cheese, you get whatever you want to put in it, that's it. You don't have to think about that, it's just automatic, jack, every week, right, and then you've got your pro-tool, whatever you want to do. When you do that and I think the lesson that people can definitely take from this is reduce the friction of having to think right the decision fatigue. Literally give yourself the same breakfast and lunch. And if you're someone who can't do that, yes, you can, yes, you can, yeah legit, yeah, yes you can, yes, you can, you fucking can.

Speaker 1: 1:00:41

Yeah, you can, because your body this is what people don't understand your body doesn't know whether it's having breakfast cereal at dinner time or whether it's having it at breakfast time. It has no idea. All it sees is carbohydrates or fats or proteins. That's all it sees and it just uses them that way. So just take all that out of it, right, take it all out and really enjoy your food. But try and mix it. And with shift workers. Now, what I'm doing with them is I'm making sure, but we generally, with all of my clients, I don't generally talk about nutrition with them much at all, and I know that will surprise you, because there is so many disordered behaviors in a shift worker's life that once you start fixing those disordered behaviors which is not their fault, it's just that they haven't been educated that way and when you start fixing their disordered behaviors and start putting some structure and some routine in place into that disorganized life that they have, nutrition takes care of itself, which is just like what you said about resistance training. No one goes into the gym, doesn't air in the gym and says well, I'm getting a Big Mac on the way home because I've earned that, do that. Do that because you don't want to feel like rubbish having a Big Mac after you've just trained and looked after your body, because a lot of people know it's hard work training and you don't want to undo it with a Big Mac and all the rest of it. I'm not demonizing Big Mac. Yes, I am, I'll demonize the Big Mac, but what I'm saying is you don't do that. So, by training and getting yourself into a routine, you then want to start looking after your body more, don't you? In every way, and your mental health improves and your physical health improves and your stature improves and you don't end up with all those niggles and pains and everything else. Everything just improves all round. I hope you're enjoying the show. If you are, please don't forget to rate and review once you've finished. This helps the show's reach enormously.

Speaker 1: 1:02:48

And have you got my free e-book the Best Way to Eat on Night Shift? Well, this is a comprehensive guide to the overnight fast, why we should fast and how to best go about it. I've even included a few recipes to help you. I've put a link to the ebook in the show notes. And are you really struggling with shift work and feel like you're just crawling from one shift to the next? Well, I've got you. If you would like to work with me, I can coach you to thrive, not just survive, while undertaking the rigours of 24-7 shift work. I also conduct in-house live health and wellbeing seminars where I will come to your workplace and deliver evidence-based information to help your wellbeing team to reduce unplanned leave and increase productivity in your workplace. I've put the links in the show notes to everything mentioned. You can find me at ahealthyshiftcom or on Instagram at a underscore healthy, underscore shift.

Speaker 1: 1:03:50

Now let's get back to the show, going back to yourself with your own test results. I thought that was really interesting as well. I remember on our last podcast, you spoke about how and I think this is important how, when you've got your training and your nutrition right, how much your business thrives and you thrive in your business as well. Can you just talk about that, how much it's it really helps you to put things more in perspective and why you think that is yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:04:25

So it's the old saying, isn't it like how you do one thing is how you do everything, and if you start letting one thing slide, then everything generally tends to have a go with it. And look, I think it's easier for me to say that as someone who runs a fitness business, because if my training starts to go, my nutrition starts to go. I quite easily start to feel a little bit of kind of imposter syndrome when I'm then telling other people to do things. So you know, for example, if I was to sit here and say to you like, uh, over the next six months I'm just not going to train, I'm not going to track any food, I'm not going to do any cardio, I'm not going to do any steps, I'm just going to play PlayStation and I'm going to work, right, I would feel like an absolute imposter and I would feel wrong getting up you the camera telling people to lift weights If I'm not lifting weights. I would feel wrong getting in front of the camera and telling people to track their nutrition. If I'm eating pizza three times a day, yeah Right. So for me, if I start letting that slide, everything slides.

Speaker 2: 1:05:25

But I do believe that it's the same in a lot of walks of life and I've had a lot of clients who I will put them through like a dieting phase or a fat loss phase, um, and they will tell me things like oh, I got a promotion at work or I've been working really hard lately and it got recognized and this happened. And this happened One of my clients who competed last year you know she would constantly in her fat loss phase for the like the comp prep. She'd come in and I'd be like, like what was the win for this week? I always ask my clients for at least one win per week and a lot of the time people will give you when they're dieting, like, oh, down another kilo, or oh.

Speaker 1: 1:05:57

I did this. It's always hyper-reliable.

Speaker 2: 1:06:00

Yeah, I mean, it's a phallus phase, so it's all right. But I encourage people to look for outward wins as well. And this client every week she'd come in and it was like work, win, like, work, win, work, win, work, win, work, win, work, win. And I do find that, as you said before, when you're doing all of this stuff, you're more confident, you carry yourself differently, your posture changes, your energy changes, your vibe changes, you're sleeping more, you're more focused, you're more attentive to things, and so, therefore, all of that stuff builds up alongside your training. And if you're seeking progress in one avenue of your life, chances are you will start seeking progress in other avenues of your life too and you will become more of a higher achiever in other avenues. So, yes, there always has to be some form of give for other areas to take. I completely recognize that as well. Sometimes you actually will have to put your own journey on the back burner to get a work deadline done for sure. But again, that's not healthy business going well, working, that's just pushing yourself, burning the candle at both ends.

Speaker 2: 1:07:03

So we were saying before I came on, you were like how's life? And I was like my business has never been better. Genuinely. At the moment I'm the busiest I've ever been. I did my tax statements for the last quarter last night and that was very painful, but that was only because my business is doing very well. So it's like, yeah, that's nice, but the reason why my business has been doing so well is that I had four or five months where I was really putting myself first and I was really looking after myself and my health, my sleep, my fitness, my nutrition. And the last couple of months, because my business has been getting busier, I've been like no, no, I want to make, get more clients, I want to work harder, I want to push, I want to push, I want to push and I've almost taken it too far the other way. And now I'm sick. You know my sinuses are cooked. You know we had the event here in Sydney last month and my chest was cooked after that and like I haven't been looking after myself and it's like you know that business growth is always delayed from what you did before. So it's like the business growth that I'm experiencing now is coming from those three or four months whereby I was actually looking after myself and doing the right things by myself, because I was doing enough of the right stuff Now I'm not doing enough of the right stuff for myself and it's like I can probably forecast that maybe July and August are going to be a little bit more rough business-wise because I haven't had the energy to now do those other things, because I haven't been looking after myself in the other avenues of my life. So it's like, yeah, I always think that they do go hand in hand. It's just that sometimes, again, there's that delayed gratification aspects to these things.

Speaker 2: 1:08:31

But I do very commonly see clients especially go through fat loss phases or go through successful builds or just get a result that they feel really happy with, turn around and, yeah, their dating life improved or their work life improved or their sex life overall improved, and these are all things that are very important. I ask my clients when you're dieting and all that sort of stuff, has your libido improved or has it tanked? Because there's two different reactions we can get to dieting. If you get really lean, your libido probably tanks, but if you get lean enough to feel more confident and happy in yourself, you're going to be like well through the roof, exactly Because a lot of the time people think like reduced libido is down to like a lack of attraction to your partner and a lot of the time, it's actually a lack of feeling attractive in yourself.

Speaker 2: 1:09:14

You don't want people to look at you, you don't want to expose yourself. Um, you know, and that's the thing it's like. Oh, you know, people will say, why do influencers always show off their bodies online? And it's like, well, because in an actually kind of wholesome way, these are probably people who at one point in their lives, were made fun of for how they looked or for something that they couldn't change. And now they're very happy and proud with how they look and it's like, okay, maybe they take it too far in the way that now they try and become everyone's gospel for how to do it themselves. But, like, in, in essence, these are just people who got burned once and now they feel confident and they're happy in how they look. And I don't think we should ever tear people down for being proud of how they look. You know, and it's kind of like you cause you never know where that's kind of come from with people.

Speaker 2: 1:09:59

So, um, you know, like myself, it all like for me, I remember, like being someone who lifts, now, having big, strong legs is like it's the pinnacle Everyone's like, far out of jealousy of calves or your quads or your glutes or whatever. But when I was younger, when I was in like primary school and high school, genetically I always had a bigger lower half than I did upper body and you know, at the time I had a lot more body fat because I store a lot of body fat in my ass and my legs. I'm very lucky in that respect these days because it means I have abs all year round, which again people are like wow, good stuff. But I remember being younger and everyone making fun of my legs for how big they were. And I remember even like someone being like I remember the Ashes cricket was on sorry to anyone who's in America because you have no idea what cricket is.

Speaker 2: 1:10:47

It's like Australian and english baseball, but more classy. Yeah, um, yeah, you know. So the the ashes was on and obviously my family's english um, and like the english kept getting lbw that year. And like I remember someone coming up to me at school and being like no wonder they're always lbw, look at the size of his freaking legs. They're like big tree trunks look at these jiggly things.

Speaker 2: 1:10:58

Yeah, I'm like I remember being like in private in high school being like, oh, mortified, because I was, everyone else has got stick legs and stuff. Um, you know, I was like why don't I have those? And now that I'm 28 and I lift, I'm like I'm very glad that I don't have those. Um, you know, but yeah, back then that was a thing and it's like, yeah, we, we've all got those insecurities. But lifting, training and getting into the gym where people celebrate all kinds of body types, the ability to be strong, the ability to perform, all these things can be such a massive confidence boost, which comes right back to the first thing that we talked about on this podcast today, which you said, is that you feel so much more confident in yourself, and that's not just, oh, I've got biceps, as you said. It's like you're 60 years old and you don't feel 60.

Speaker 1: 1:11:42

You feel way younger.

Speaker 2: 1:11:44

And you go into the store and you look at like older people struggling to get something off the bottom shelf or the top shelf and you could just go over and be like got that for you, mate, no worries, you know don't worry. Let me help. Sort of thing you know, and it's like you've got all that strength You're not going to have to worry about. You know, is it your granddaughter that you share on?

Speaker 1: 1:12:05

your story sometimes Yep.

Speaker 2: 1:12:09

Yeah, you don't have to worry about picking her up and playing with her or anything I run around watching Straight away. You're like yeah, you're like I conventional deadlift more than you love, let's go.

Speaker 1: 1:12:26

You know, I got you for reps.

Speaker 2: 1:12:27

You know it's like yeah, that's right, I've got next granddaughter.

Speaker 1: 1:12:29

Yeah, thank you. So she's 40 weeks tomorrow, so she is well and truly ready to go, which is very, very exciting. And I've got another one coming in August, so I'm going to have three granddaughters in August, by August.

Speaker 2: 1:12:44

It's crazy, isn't it? We're going to get more cardio in your program so you can keep up with it. Yeah, I'll be there?

Speaker 1: 1:12:47

Well, I do, do you know? It's kind of funny what you said there about you know, I was in the cafe today and I catch up with my friend and we do our steam and pull. I go to the gym first, he meets me afterwards, we do 15 minutes in the steam room and then we walk in the pool for an hour. Right, and it's just great therapy, just walking backwards and forwards in the you know hydro pool. It's like that scene out of I don't know I can't remember the movie now Everyone will be screaming it at us, but anyway, where the old people are in the pool, anyway, so I'm walking backwards and forwards in the pool and I go to the cafe and when I go to stand up, I've been sitting for about an hour and I go to stand up and I go oh, one of the girls in there, she's about probably 19,. She goes oh, rod, you're really showing your age now. And I went. That wasn't age. My coach has destroyed my frigging legs. That's what that was. Right, that's dogs, mate.

Speaker 1: 1:13:42

That's dogs, I'll see you in the gym and I texted you during the week and I said to you last week. I said I think I need a deload phase. I've absolutely. My body is in pain from top to toe from training because I do. I go balls to the wall with what I'm doing each time and I do need I get white line fever. I need to slow it, just slow it down. So today I slowed it down and I'm still freaking hurting, but anyway, no PBs. But I lifted an elephant today.

Speaker 1: 1:14:11

No PBs, but I lifted an elephant. But, yeah, I just love it and I look forward to the new phase. But the way you know that you're really enjoying your program and you change it every six weeks for me, which just seems to go like a week, right, but I find that it goes so quickly into the next phase which shows how much you're enjoying it. And then you get into the next phase and then all of a sudden it's new exercises, new way of doing the exercises. And I know from talking to Mark Mark Carroll, the good thing about the gym and we spoke about this on the podcast that I did with him is going into the gym is measurable, and that's what it is. It's something that you can go into and you're either putting more plates on or you're changing the tempo, or you're just doing something a little bit differently to get maximum benefit from it, and you can measure that over and over and over again until you've completely lost where you've come from.

Speaker 1: 1:15:08

I know what I used to bench press to what I am now. And I want to go back and say about your videos as well. You have taught me so much in your videos, with just technique and cues, and I think I know you put these together. For that reason, just don't underestimate the cues that people are taking from them, because they are excellent. They are really, really good, especially the little bits of humour that you chuck in them every now and again, which is always good. And Bass as well, again, which is always good. But, and Bass as well Sebastian Oreb with his. I have always despised deadlifting. I've always despised it. Ryan, if you dare take deadlifting out of my program, I'll come and wrap the bar around your head, ryan, because I now love. You got that vision, didn't you? I did, mate.

Speaker 2: 1:16:05

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. I had the vision of you turning me into a kettlebell or something like that, with the bar sticking out both sides.

Speaker 1: 1:16:11

Yeah, no, I was just going to bring the barbell and I'm just going to wrap it around your head and tie it off, but I, um, I could see me with those guns. I could see it. I, um, um, I'm. I followed bass with his um, uh, cues on deadlifting and I've watched and watched and watched. I've saved them and I've watched them. It has made such a difference to my deadlifting. So, when we talk about social media being a dumpster fire, there's people like yourself and Bass that are putting just quality content that's really engaging. To learn that you don't need to do this, but do this and keep this cue in mind and do that. And now I can hear the cues going as I'm doing things, just loving it, just absolutely loving the training, um, to the stage where I have to stop myself. At my age, I can't be going every day. Um, you've got to give yourself a chance to recover and I think this is what people have got to learn as well, don't they, jack? How important rest is as well 100%, man.

Speaker 2: 1:17:09

100%. You can't perform at your best without rest. No, you can't. I like that. I'm going to coin that yeah, you have to be able to rest and recover. And it's not even about, like everyone says, oh, rest is, but the sentiment is right. You know, at the end of the day it's like if you go into the gym today and you know like I did my first training session for almost five days today since I've been sick and I know I'm going to be pretty sore tomorrow because I've been sick and my system's a little stressed and stuff so if I now went back in again tomorrow and tried to train the exact same muscles, it's not going to work, I'm not going to perform anywhere near as well and the whole point of training is progressing right and it's like you need to be able to rest in order to progress because you need to go in fresh and okay.

Speaker 2: 1:17:55

Over the weeks, like you said, you needed to deload. You know this last week. So I said to you pull back a little bit, just auto-regulate that in where you need it, that's fine. Then we can build back up. You know. You know that if you do that and you pull back just a tiny little bit that in three weeks time. Even if you took two steps backwards, in three weeks time, that's three steps forwards, so you're ahead. And then by the time you get to the end of the program, you're going to be even further ahead. And then we go into the next phase and you're fresher and you've taken that step back and you're good.

Speaker 2: 1:18:20

Yeah, people need to just know when to pull back. And it's the same with anything, man, it's like nutrition. If you're someone who tracks all the time, have little periods where you don't track as closely, you know. If you're someone who does a lot of like, you know high intensity cardio, lots of sprint cardio. Give yourself an opportunity to rest from that. Lots of zone two cardio, maybe pull some of that back, like even steps and stuff.

Speaker 2: 1:18:40

Man, like I found the other week, I was like oh my god, my ankles are hurt and I was like I've been doing a lot more walking lately because I've been doing a lot of like uh, I, whenever I'm coming up with something new for content or business, I like to go for a walk and think it through without distractions. I've been doing a lot of that lately. The city I was like cool, um. So, yeah, man, like people just got to know, I really like the concept of push and pull, months, uh, and weeks and even days, like you know and for anyone who knows what it's like, it's not push as in go in and do chest tricep shoulders, like you know. It's like you know, know what avenues to push harder and know when to pull back on other things and and create a balance for yourself you. You know, like, as Roger was saying there, yeah, yeah, I think that's fantastic.

Speaker 1: 1:19:28

You're a very good coach, jack. I really enjoy your programming and I've loved doing well. I've been with you. But the time we get to the end of this phase it will have been 48 weeks. So we're nearly at a year and it's been exceptional and I've really, really enjoyed it.

Speaker 1: 1:19:48

And if I went back to where I started and I was just sort of getting going and to where I am today, I walk in confidently, I do what I do and that was another thing that I was going to say about the gym as well I don't know whether you're a person that talks to others in the gym or whether you just want to go in and just don't want to talk to others.

Speaker 1: 1:20:02

I'm not a talker in the gym. I know you'll find that hard to believe, but I love to go in and just get my shit done right, just go in there and just do it. But it is a club, isn't it? You do acknowledge and see the same people, and I think this is something that was really underestimated through COVID, that we missed that. We really, really missed that just that being in that environment of like-minded people. We're all so isolated. I think this is what impacted so greatly on a lot of us with mental health Transferring from online to online PT from face-to-face. I know you enjoy the freedom of not having to be in a place. Do you miss the gym environment as a PT, talking to people and taking people through things?

Speaker 2: 1:20:48

I miss the sessions. Yeah, I like, I love training people in person there's nothing that compares to that. I really enjoy that and, like you know, I have online clients come to sydney and they ask if we could train in person.

Speaker 2: 1:20:58

Like, absolutely like, come in, let's do a session you know like awesome, you know it's, it's a lot of fun. But, um, yeah, I mean like that's. Why look at high rocks, for example. High rocks has grown massively the last couple years. Why not because it gets great results, not because it breeds incredible transformations of fitness, community, social. That's it man like. And that's the thing. And that is the thing that people don't realize about the gym. Everybody thinks, oh, everyone in the gym is really scary, they're gonna judge me, all this other shit.

Speaker 2: 1:21:25

It's like no one cares like no one gives a shit because everybody's too busy like focusing on themselves, and not in a narcissistic way, in a oh, I'm going to drop this barbell on my head if I don't pay attention. Oh, I'm going to drop this barbell on my foot if I don't pay attention. What weights did I use last week? I don't know. Oh, my God, who's calling me goal weight?

Speaker 2: 1:21:43

Like you know, these are the thoughts that are going through people's heads while they're there, and even things like you know, as I said to you before, everyone who goes in the gym you're kind of battling something. While you're there, you know you're taking out frustrations, taking out energy, and it's this nice positive space. And you know, like most of the best mates that I have now are either people that I've met through fitness who are either other coaches and other trainers or just people that I've trained with once and they were like you're sound and I'm like you're sound too, mate, and then we're mates, you know, and that's it, and it's like yeah you're sound fella no worries, you're sound.

Speaker 1: 1:22:15

It's sort of like the secret handshake You're sound, you're sound too. Yeah, yeah, how it goes. That's fantastic. I love it.

Speaker 2: 1:22:32

That's how we met, wasn't it in the sharps bin? That's right.

Speaker 1: 1:22:35

Yeah, hanging out of the sharps bin. No, all natural, I'm all natural, I've always been all natural. As much as it pisses me off that I wasn't able to get on the trt, I'm actually glad because I've kept my hair, because everyone that's on trt loses their hair anyway, don't they?

Speaker 2: 1:22:52

so no, actually oh no not true.

Speaker 2: 1:22:56

Only if you take it to like super physiological levels. So only if you're like actually abusing it, yeah, yeah, or if you are predisposed to going bald, I guess too. But like, yeah, I mean, I do just want to sort of I guess too. But like, yeah, I mean I do just want to sort of say on that as well, to like anyone who's listening, like if you are somebody who struggles with, uh, if you're a guy whose T is really low and you've done a lot of natural stuff and it's not come back up, um, this can be many, this many different things that can affect this. Not going to go into all of them myself because I'm not a medical doctor, so do not take this as advice in any terms other than what I'm saying is to go and see your GP to have those conversations and let them handle it. But if your testosterone is routinely low, if you're a female in menopause as well HRT game changer for a lot of women.

Speaker 2: 1:23:39

It's something I'm so. My parents are both. My mom is 57 in just under six weeks and my dad will be 60 this year and I'm I'm trying to really get both of them to do more looking into their own bloods and their own levels. And consider this like I'd love my mom to get on hrt. Yeah, I'd love my dad to get on trt. You know, my dad tells me all the time he's like I'm fatigued, my energy levels are low, like I don't have the energy to exercise. Like you know, sometimes he'll be like my mental health's just not good. And I'm like dad, like when, when you're getting to getting up to your 60s and he's not exercising, he's not training as much, he still works, he's like so I'm like man, like at least have the conversation is all I'm saying to people like do not be scared of these things just

Speaker 2: 1:24:20

because, like we, we joke about them in a fitnessy way because it's funny and you see the bros on their gear and all that sort of stuff. But at the end of the day, men and women, your endocrine system is so important it really is and so if things are imbalanced in there and you can do something about it, be it naturally or synthetically, with the guidance of a GP, not just listening to myself on a podcast, that's not what I'm saying. The guidance of a GP, not just listening to myself on a podcast, that's not what I'm saying. But you know, like, go in and speak to your GP and have those conversations, do those tests, cause it could be the best decision you ever make in your life.

Speaker 1: 1:24:51

I've got a client at the moment that went and started TRT. It's literally changed his life. He absolutely, absolutely loves it and and he wishes he'd done it beforehand. Because we don't realise and you've made really, really good points here in relation to, like your dad, that he's tired and he hasn't got the go to exercise and things like that Just have the conversation around the TRT, get it tested, get it replaced. And I also think for women as well, with the HRT super important, super important that they look at it now, because the evidence has all been completely debunked that it's dangerous and it's actually so much better for them and I don't understand why, as a female, you'd want to go through that when you can get the relief from it as well. I think that's something that people need to have those conversations and get on with it. Yeah, jake, what a chat. My God. Look at us. We're still going an hour and 20 minutes in, but what the hell you know? Thank you so much. I do really appreciate you coming on to the podcast today.

Speaker 2: 1:26:00

My pleasure, bro, just having a general chit-chat about whatever.

Speaker 1: 1:26:04

It's always good to chat with you. It's always good to chat with you face-to-face, tell people where they can actually find you. I'm going to strongly encourage that people go over and join the other 200-odd thousand. How's that grown? You went from like 15,000 to 200,000 in about five minutes.

Speaker 2: 1:26:22

Yeah, I was at Clean Health last year. I think I had just over 50 000 um. So yeah, it's the last year. It's gone a bit mental. It went from um I went from like seven eats to a hundred thousand in the space of about four weeks. That's crazy.

Speaker 1: 1:26:38

It's pretty wild yeah, it is well. Yeah, but your content deserves that, jack. I know I mean that with the utmost sincerity as well, because the content is quality for people, who, anyone who wants to learn about, um, uh, technique in the gym and what is good and what is absolute garbage, and keeping it simple um, I just love it. And the cues are good. Um, my exercise folder on my instagram is full of Jack's videos to go back to and things like that. So I think that's save them, engage with them, like them, share them, let people know that this sort of stuff's out here, because it's really important that good people get good connections, get people learning, because that's the idea that we're all here for to get rid of the rubbish that's out there and start teaching people the right things. Um, well done, jack. Where can they find you?

Speaker 2: 1:27:33

uh, just jack hallows, as my name is probably written in the description somewhere. Fitness on instagram, and then everything else can be found from there coaching, all that sort of stuff. Um, I only offer one thing, which is one-to-one online coaching. Yep, um, I am gonna put it out there, like I reckon we do a little to go along with this podcast. When's this episode going out?

Speaker 1: 1:27:53

um. What's the date today?

Speaker 2: 1:27:54

the um well, 28th of may today it's the 28th of may today.

Speaker 1: 1:27:58

I would like to try and get it out on the 6th of june, the 6th, the 6th of june, so friday week, hopefully. Leave it with me.

Speaker 2: 1:28:06

I'll try and make a little resource up with the first phase June, the 6th of June, so Friday week, hopefully. Leave it with me, I'll try and make a little resource up with the first phase of that three-day espresso program that anyone? Who listens to this can go and try it out themselves.

Speaker 1: 1:28:16

I think that'd be fantastic If you could just put a little page together with what people should do for a week that they can repeat for six weeks, and then they can come and talk to you about what to do beyond there. I think that's a really good way of going about it.

Speaker 2: 1:28:31

You know what Fuck it? I'll give them the first two. They can have the first two phases. They can have 12 weeks of programming. They can give it a go and then they can go from there.

Speaker 1: 1:28:38

Okay, you've heard it here. I'll put the link to it. Put the link to it. When we get it all together, I'll email Jack, we'll put a link to it into the show notes and also put Jack's resources, his locations, in there for you as well. Let's do that. Let's get people. I can't encourage people enough. Three days a week at 45 minutes as a shift worker is just so good to fall in love with resistance training and learn and walking into a gym with purpose, knowing what your first exercise is to walk into and go bang right this is what I'm going to do is the way to go, without any doubt whatsoever, and I still reckon your videos are good for the app, so we need to just get that happening. Make it happen.

Speaker 2: 1:29:22

All right, make it happen, make it happen.

Speaker 1: 1:29:24

We want to get it going happening, make it happen, make it happen. We already get it going. I want to shift workers espresso program. I want to start pushing it in there.

Speaker 2: 1:29:31

So there we go. All right, I'll just drop that on you.

Speaker 1: 1:29:33

I'll just drop that on you in there, jack. I know you're off to the UK to pub Anyone listening in the UK as well, cause I've got quite a few listeners in the UK to the podcast. Tell us about your, what you're doing in, where you're doing it and what you're actually doing. Talk about it, jack.

Speaker 2: 1:29:50

Yeah, august 23rd, myself, dave Marsh and Alex Gates two friends of mine, great coaches as well, as I can't remember his name. Alex basically runs a coaching mentorship company with his business partner, cal. They're both going to be speaking on training Essentially. So, essentially, these are events for coaches, but anyone. So if you are a wannabe coach, if you are someone who enjoys fitness and you're considering being a coach, if you're a face-to-face personal trainer, if you're a well-established online coach who's trying to grow your business, these events are for you.

Speaker 2: 1:30:21

August 23rd at CrossFit Bath, we're going to be there. Dave's going to be talking muscle mechanics. Alex is going to be talking uh, check-ins and systems. I'm going to be talking to social media content and marketing. Not a hundred percent sure what Cal's going to be talking on just yet, but I believe it's nutrition. Then, really exciting, london, august 30th Um, we're going to be speaking. Have to get the name of the place. I'll get. Get Roger to put it down in the show notes underneath, um, but we are going to. I think it's called the box gym in London. Uh, again, myself, Dave and Alex. And, very exciting, we've got Luke Lehman of muscle nerds joining us as well.

Speaker 2: 1:30:55

Yeah, yeah, luke's very kindly. He was in the UK doing a seminar on transformations. He's uh, he knows Dave very well and he's keen to come and have a chat, so he's going to be there on the 30th in London as well. If you want tickets, you can head to my Instagram links in bio or I can send the links to Roger and he can chuck them in there. But basically if you want to learn all things about improving your online coaching business, that's where to come, if you're in the UK.

Speaker 1: 1:31:18

I agree, and if you want to learn about socials, definitely follow Jack there. But if you're a coach in the uk and you're listening, make the effort. Bath and london, you've got there. So you've got two dates that you can pick. I know what I'd be picking. I'd be picking the one where luke lehman's at, because I think luke lehman is one of the gods of the industry and has been for a long time hasn't he?

Speaker 2: 1:31:38

selfishly? I'm so excited to hear him speak. Oh, I'm so my first time hearing him speak in person. So I was was like, as soon as Dave said, like I think we can get Luke, I was like what do you mean think? I was like we're making this happen.

Speaker 1: 1:31:47

We'll make it whatever he wants. We'll buy him a coffee. We'll buy him a coffee.

Speaker 2: 1:31:51

He'll go yeah yeah, a bottle of wine or something, he'll be all right.

Speaker 1: 1:32:01

Well, it's good because you's always going to be home. Not really yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:32:05

Although.

Speaker 1: 1:32:05

Liverpool, liverpool, liverpool. He throws his arms in the air, Liverpool.

Speaker 2: 1:32:11

Yeah, I'm not going to say too much, just in case there's any United fans that listen to this that make themselves sad.

Speaker 1: 1:32:17

But yeah, it's a good season.

Speaker 2: 1:32:18

Good year to be a Liverpool fan.

Speaker 1: 1:32:19

It's a good year to be a Liverpool fan with a bit of the trophy in the cabinet, jack, poor fan with a bit of um with the trophy in the cabinet, jack. Thank you again and I will talk to you again, no doubt in the future.

Speaker 1: 1:32:29

Appreciate you, bro thank you, and there you have it. It went a bit longer than what I anticipated, but then that's just probably my fault, but anyway, um, I hope you enjoyed that episode with jack and, as jack has said we're going to, in the show notes I'll put the links to him and I'll also put the links to the first two phases of his espresso program. For you to try and fall in love with training, I've got to tell you Jack is a great program writer. You will really enjoy it. You can go into the gym with it in hand and you can actually just start and learn how to go about training as a shift worker, because it's just so important for us to get back into the gym and training. I know a lot of it today was talking about myself and him, about training and the impact that it has on our lives, but it really does have such a massive impact.

Speaker 1: 1:33:25

If you've got any value out of the podcast, please share it. Please make sure you go over and give Jack a follow His content's fantastic and let us know if you enjoyed the episode and until the next one, I will talk to you soon. Thank you for listening. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe so you get notified whenever a new episode is released. It would also be ever so helpful if you could leave a rating and review on the app you're currently listening on. If you want to know more about me or work with me, you can go to ahealthyshiftcom. I'll catch you on the next one.