Speaker 1: 1:17

Roger, as we know, is a veteran law enforcement officer, got away with it for four decades. Highly regarded uh, roger. These days, of course, uh coaches shift workers to do really well surviving as he refers to it. Surviving shift work, uh, more energy to do the things that we love, certainly whilst we're working in outside the work environment. We talk about a whole range of things when Roger is here. Good morning to you, and good morning to you, Tony. How are you this morning? Were you waving your arms as you were singing the opening thing?

Speaker 2: 1:47

It's that sort of I was going to turn the light on on my phone and wave it backwards and forwards like we do at concerts, and forwards like we do at concerts.

Speaker 1: 1:54

What was the other show that we used to do that? Was it the Boys Light Up, where you get out the old fling and the little thing?

Speaker 2: 2:03

I can tell you, the Boys Light Up is the one and only song that I know the words to from start to finish, and it's my karaoke favourite. So you'll do that. Oh, I'll do it without even looking at the screen. Here we go.

Speaker 1: 2:11

No, we don't. Five, four, three, two one.

Speaker 2: 2:15

The boys light up. I'm not going to sing on national radio, no, you won't do it, please do it.

Speaker 1: 2:20

We've got lots of things to talk about. I do want to talk to you about it and this will be riveting for those in the state, but I guess in that sense it's relevant, because there but the grace where we have lost which most would view as a very good police. Commissioner, we'll come back to that shortly. Why don't we take a few calls just to kick your head off Craig's in town in Perth? Hello, craig, yes.

Speaker 3: 2:44

Craig go ahead.

Speaker 1: 2:44

Yes, go ahead, tony Mack, speaking Craig. Hello, it's Chris. How are you?

Speaker 3: 2:48

going Tony.

Speaker 1: 2:48

Hello, chris, good to talk to you.

Speaker 3: 2:51

Oh, good day mate. Look, yeah, just on shift work and the coppers, I can tell you what. Just down the road from me we've got a coffee shop here in Perth and every morning when the guys the bambos and police they knock off and they've just done their night shift and they just gather around this little corner coffee shop just on the bottom of my street. And they're just around this little corner coffee shop just on the bottom of my street and they're just so full of beans it looks as though they're about to go on shift, but I know they're not. They've just knocked off and I've got nothing but respect for those guys and I go up to them and I actually offered to buy them a coffee the other day and they just refused. And I know exactly what they've been through. I live in a funny suburb and I've got nothing but respect for them. I just want to pass it on to all the police.

Speaker 1: 3:45

Good on you, Chris. That's a very nice thing to say and I'll tell you what's important about that. And as a kid I was thank you, chris. I was really enviable too about that. What appeared as an outsider Rog, those relationships, comradery yeah, that was almost an enviable that you, unless you were a member, you weren't really part of it, but I remember being taken by it.

Speaker 2: 4:06

What Chris has observed there is actually almost what you would call a debrief after a shift, because they're in the pressure cooker for the whole shift and what they do is they get together and they just have a debrief before they go home. And this is just such a good initiative on behalf of those members that Chris has talked about. So they've gone and been flogged to death the whole shift, and then they finish up and the reason why they're full of beans is because they're amongst their friends, they're having a laugh, they're going through the funny moments of the shift instead of getting bogged down in the sadness and the trauma of the shift. And then they can go home to their families and what they're doing whether they're sitting, they're having a coffee or whether they're having a croissant or what they're doing they're debriefing, and it's super important Because a lot of people will finish and they're so busy and then they just get in their cars and just drive home and then they just lie there in bed, wired, yeah which is not good.

Speaker 1: 5:00

We now know that that's not good. We'll come back to that very shortly. Come and join us, Tiffy hello.

Speaker 5: 5:05

Hello darling.

Speaker 4: 5:08

Tiffy.

Speaker 5: 5:11

I'm trying to get my words out. I'm tired.

Speaker 1: 5:13

No, we've got you there. We understand. Now there's a little note here, tiffy, that says you wanted to talk about your sleep routine. So just share with this audience and with Roger, given everything that you've been through, what is your sleep routine?

Speaker 5: 5:27

Well, because I'm totally blind. You know, a lot of us say this is what happens when I get tired. A lot of us don't sleep very well and we don't get the light because we can't see it and we can't really sense it that well. See, this is what happens when I get tired, but I'm ready for bed. Now. I mean, I will stop and listen, but I'm ready for bed.

Speaker 5: 5:51

I wake up at 9 am. Either my alarm wakes me up or I might even wake up half an hour earlier, or even an hour earlier than that, and I'll just get through the day. Sometimes I might have a tiny little sleep, depending on how much sleep I've had before that, but most of the time I just get up and I just, you know, because that way I can just do what I need to do instead of, you know, whiling away the hours going. Oh, my God, you know, I've just slept, you know, the whole day away and now I can't do anything. And when I have to go out, you know, once a month when I've got my support workers, now I'm not going to go oh my God, I'm so tired Like what the hell?

Speaker 1: 6:31

It's a very good point and sometimes Roger hours if I'm lucky in one hit during the day. I actually wake up and I feel a bit guilty. Does that make sense? Feel guilty for Wasting?

Speaker 2: 6:42

a day what feels like wasting a day Common with shift workers, because it's so isolating as well, isn't it? Because during the night Now you've got a partner at home as well, so you're missing out on that time. You know you miss out on that time with them. Shift work is very, very isolating.

Speaker 2: 7:00

Tiff, I just wanted to say to you as well I've seen your text messages over the last few fortnights, or last few weeks as well, in relation to the fact that you've gone better with your sleep and I wanted to talk about, even though you can't see light and you're not sure that you're sensing it just by being outside even though you can't see the light, your eye still registers that blue light and it is still resetting your circadian rhythm, which is why people who have diseased eyes, they try and save the eye if they can, because of those ganglion cells that register the light. And if you get up when that alarm goes off at nine and just sit outside on the back step with your coffee and just, you won't know whether the light's hitting your eye or not, but I can tell you your eye is registering that light, that blue light that's going into the eye and it will be helping to reset your circadian rhythm, which is why, at this time of night, you're tired and ready to sleep.

Speaker 1: 7:59

Did you know what we've done in here this morning? See all these big ones? Yep, just turn them all down. I love it All off, so it's a little softer in here.

Speaker 2: 8:06

I'd love to get these AW screens off.

Speaker 1: 8:09

Good luck Good luck with that Good luck. But it makes the room look gorgeous, doesn't it? But what you're saying is not fantastic, for the people.

Speaker 2: 8:16

Oh, it's terrible for our eyes, although you're wearing those very special glasses.

Speaker 1: 8:19

I've got my blue blockers on.

Speaker 2: 8:21

So whilst.

Speaker 1: 8:21

I'm seeing blue screens. You're not seeing blue.

Speaker 2: 8:23

No, I'm seeing green?

Speaker 1: 8:24

You're seeing green, yep, and we know it's not easy. Seeing green, no.

Speaker 6: 8:28

We do know that.

Speaker 1: 8:30

Tiff. Thank you. Plenty of room for your calls, roger's. Here we're talking all things to do with a healthy shift, or lack thereof. 1-double-3-6-9-3. For Perth listeners, you can jump on as well. We love you. 1-double-3-8-8-2.

Speaker 4: 8:53

And for texters. Is that a word? Texters For sending a message 0-4-double-7-6-9-3-6-9-3.

Speaker 1: 9:05

Night. You know you want to sing. Come on your microphone's on, come on.

Speaker 2: 9:10

It's a great song. It is a fantastic song.

Speaker 1: 9:15

Have you seen James Raine live Recently? No, I probably haven't, oh he's absolutely fantastic. I've spoken to him on air several times over the years. I love.

Speaker 2: 9:23

James, I think he's live. I went and saw him at the Palms at Crown. I think I was probably fanboying.

Speaker 1: 9:31

I loved it Well, as we were, as Australian Crawl.

Speaker 2: 9:34

You know, those days were just ace.

Speaker 1: 9:36

Around. I loved it Well as we were. As Australian Crawl. You know those days were just ice Around. The concerts all around Australia, particularly over summertime, those beach-style concerts, whether it be in Sorrento or whether it be down at Fremantle in WA.

Speaker 2: 9:44

St Kilda on the foreshore. Yeah, all those great places Fantastic. Yeah, they were a great band.

Speaker 1: 9:49

You sure you don't want to do just a hum, a few bars.

Speaker 2: 9:56

No, you have to give me a microphone.

Speaker 1: 9:57

The problem people have got now is I don't drink anymore. You've got a microphone. That's a good point. I have two.

Speaker 2: 10:01

I can't get a better microphone.

Speaker 1: 10:02

Don't worry if it's probably the best microphone going.

Speaker 2: 10:04

It'll probably make me sound alright. It's the top rating microphone in Australia, I know, but I haven't been taught how to sing and it's not great.

Speaker 1: 10:10

Well, none of us have, but one should always have a song in one's heart, of course, Boys light up is mine. Who's waiting In Broadie G'day? Chris, Say hello to Roger Morning.

Speaker 7: 10:23

Hello Roger, how are you?

Speaker 2: 10:24

Very well Morning Chris.

Speaker 7: 10:33

Oh, my son Pat's a shocker. Over these 33 years of being part of 3OW and no two days the same. Sometimes I in fact, with the circumstances, the fear of safety and all that even now at home, I feel it's actually safer to stay up through the night and sleep during the day.

Speaker 2: 10:45

Interesting, interesting. I know a few people that are like that now. They would rather stay up at night to be more alert than sleep, because they're in fear.

Speaker 7: 10:56

Yeah, and in fact, roger, I feel it's better, even though I've just had a new NDIS plan put in place for a few days for 12 months and it's going to stop a lot of my night-time activity on next week or the week after onwards. I find a lot of people can't carry a conversation so sadly, for all the wrong reasons, and it shouldn't be an excuse. I'm watching horse racing on the Freedom Air channel tonight just because it keeps me company. I won $200 tonight or today and tonight, but I've not bet any more. I transferred that back to my bank account. I just find all the beautiful stories and I sing along to music off YouTube and with my support worker Charlotte. She's amazed how I identify with a lot of recent stuff over the last 20 to 25 years and not so much for the 70s and early 80s, and all that even though I'm 60.

Speaker 2: 11:48

Fantastic. Have you played YouTube jukebox? No, no you just start a song and you've got to pick the next one from what's recommended to you. Great fun.

Speaker 1: 11:58

Great fun. That is great, hey, Chris. You look after yourself and we'll talk soon. Did you want to mention something about pay rises, Chris?

Speaker 7: 12:05

Oh no, it's probably off topic. It's just that I've been communicating with Government House for her actually the Governor of Victoria to try to find a medium and safeguard me, our to try to find a medium and safeguard me, our constituents in the State District of Broadbanks and Victoria, because my former comrades in the ALP are going my way and I sort of support people who should be dropping like flies, like the police, the nurses and all that. I'm trying to use just a little bit of insight. But I'm still on the disability pension for mental illness too, I've got to remind myself.

Speaker 1: 12:34

You've got a lot of stuff going on, chris, well done. Of course, the big story in terms of your previous occupation is the loss of Chief Kamish. Yes, so just, I mean there would be and I heard Ross and Russ talking about this in the 3AW Brekkie program there wouldn't be too many organisations, very large organisations, where there is some sort of not ill-feeling that's the wrong word but you have some sort of animosity towards leadership. I mean, I think that's part of being leadership. I reckon there's football clubs who don't necessarily like their coach or captain necessarily.

Speaker 2: 13:14

I totally agree with you here. There's one thing that I think a lot of people have lost sight of, and I joined VicPoll in 1984 and graduated under Mick Miller.

Speaker 1: 13:26

You were 20 with the great Mick Miller.

Speaker 2: 13:28

Mick Miller, the great man. He had a vote of no confidence against him at one stage as well he did. Now I think we lose sight of it. We all think, oh, we voted and we've got rid of Shane Patton, which I think is probably a tragedy in my eye personally, but I think one of the biggest dramas that we have is we have gone. Oh, he was no good, because it was that time. Covid did a lot of damage to Vic Pohl. It did a lot of damage to policing worldwide, and COVID did a lot of damage to VicPol. It did a lot of damage to policing worldwide, and I think he was just the man that was in charge. Just on that, though, Rog because?

Speaker 1: 14:00

why? Because of the role that they found themselves in having to Enforce government policies, government policy. So it's almost as if they were endorsing government policy, yes, but they they were not Under their job description. They have no choice in those circumstances, but to do that.

Speaker 2: 14:19

Correct and I think everyone's looked at Shane Patton and they've also looked at Victoria Police and said, oh, they were just thugs, they just went out there and they did. You've got to remember that the government of the day were dictating to the leader of the police that this is the policy, this is what's to be done. We do not want these people and that's how it was to be enforced and got rid of Now. These people were to be moved on and got rid of Now. If we could walk down the path of life with the benefit of hindsight, would that have happened?

Speaker 2: 14:50

Maybe not, but I think my understanding of Shane Patton was that he was someone who argued really hard in private, argued really hard For the, for the membership, for the membership, for the membership On behalf of the membership, on behalf of the membership as a street copper. Because Shane Patton my understanding was I'd never worked with him or under him, but my understanding was he was an excellent street cop and a very, very good man and I think he would have argued fairly strongly in behind the scenes but then has to toe the company line in the public with the Premier. Now does that make him weak or whatever? I don't think he's got any choice at all, at all. Would that be for all commissioners?

Speaker 1: 15:34

with whom you've heard him indulge. All of them. That's the nature of their appointment.

Speaker 2: 15:39

Unfortunately, I can talk about this because I've been in VicPol for 40 years and I've now stepped out. The thing is, we, all over that journey, have all said that the last non-politically aligned Chief Commissioner was Mick Miller. I was fortunate enough to graduate under Mick Miller and work under him to start off with, but then they're saying ever since then it was very much a political appointment, and I personally totally agree with that, because we've had good chief commissioners that on the change of government, all of a sudden, they've had oh, I've got family matters that I've got to attend to, or whatever, and people can see through that right. So that's one of the biggest problems. I do have a question for you. Now, though, we've got a change of chief, right? Well, we're going to get a change of chief commissioner now. So Shane Patton's gone and Tony McManus is now in the chair. So I'm in the chair. I've been appointed into the role You've been appointed as the chief, and all of our listeners have been appointed as the chief as well.

Speaker 2: 16:40

Because I want feedback on this what's my number one job in that role? Your number one job now is the public have put a lot of pressure on you to fix this, what I would call public safety issue in Victoria at the moment and it's not only in Victoria, right across Australia, it's right across Australia or everywhere, but we can only address Victoria. Now you've got to take submissions to government. Tell me what submission are you going to take to government to fix the public safety issue at the moment? Because the public are looking at you. They're not looking at the government, they're looking at you because everything you hear about, oh, the police are not doing this and that's not happening and they're getting bailed and et cetera, but this is the government's fault. So you've got to fix that. So tell me, what policies or what suggestions are you going to take to the government? Because, as the Premier, the Premier's coming to you and saying, tony, how do we fix this?

Speaker 1: 17:32

I'd rather ask the audience, I'd rather ask the audience I've got some answers. I'd rather ask the audience about that. I've got two, I'll bet so. 133693. So assume, for 24, 36 hours you are the new commissioner, you're heading up this great organisation in any state you choose, whether it be for WA or South Australia. 133693. You're in charge. What would you do? How would you advocate Is that the right word? How would you advocate on behalf of members to the population who, at this point, are demanding that something be done?

Speaker 2: 18:05

Absolutely, and they've got every right to feel threatened. At the moment, we've just heard a caller that says oh, I'd rather not sleep at night, I'd rather be vigilant at night. Now, and this is the community we live in and, as the Chief Commissioner, it is crazy. And imagine what it's like living down in those bayside suburbs and things like that at the moment Every noise, every time a possum goes off or something like that happens, you're freaking out. So what about? What are you going to take to government? Because it's a government issue. It's not a police issue. It's a government issue, whether it's short staff in the police or whether it's the policies are not strong enough in the background. But what is there that we can actually do to? What are we going to?

Speaker 1: 18:44

take to government. All right, We'll get the audience to jump on board. 1-double-3-6-9-3. Would there be more than two options, three options or just the number one option?

Speaker 2: 18:54

You can take as many as you like. I mean, obviously we can't tie up the radio for half an hour, no, but I've got two, two ideas.

Speaker 1: 19:01

Hold those and we'll come back. 133693, wherever you are. If you'd like to join us from WA, you can do that as well. 133882. It is Australia Overnight and we'll take your call straight after this. Roger Sutherland is here, a retired Vic Poller. A couple of calls coming through. I would have thought everybody would have a view about what you would put up first if you were running the place. If you were a commissioner, what would you think is your number one job? Is that the right expression?

Speaker 2: 20:38

What's your number one priority. The public are going to be looking at the new chief as to what he's going to do about the public safety issue and what can he do.

Speaker 1: 20:49

Do you want to hear my first submission? Yeah, please do. We'll get to Graeme in just a moment.

Speaker 2: 20:52

Stay there, graeme, this is my first submission to the Premier. I'm going to suggest that depending on how many of you there are depends on the severity of the sentence. So if you steal a car and you're in the car, one up and you're going to get one year for it, if there's five of you, you're getting five years. If there's four of you, you're getting four years If there's three of you. So what we're doing is we are escalating it, the penalty for every time. So if Tony McManus is going to get six months jail for a serious assault but was in company with five others, then it's five times six. It's 30 months because you are with five people.

Speaker 1: 21:39

So you present that in a court, presumably often in a children's courtumably often in a children's court. We'd start at a children's court In children's court, and that becomes mandatory Because you were grouped together Three and four or five or more, and that would determine your sentence. Yep, wow. But the legislation's got to be applied. There's got to be legislation set up. The commission can't do that.

Speaker 2: 22:06

No, but remember, you've got to take a submission to trial. You've got to give the Premier a solution, right, you've got to say this is my solution. Well, a solution to the problem, right, it's not the be-all and the end-all, but we know damn well and we're all seeing the footage of these four or five people walking around houses at night and jumping out of cars. We saw the minibus one the other night with five of them. If the penalty for that theft of motor car, aggravated burglary and everything, was two years and there's five of you then put them away for 10.

Speaker 1: 22:41

All of you then put them away for 10. All of you, Notwithstanding that that costs a lot of money to put those people for 12 months into prison.

Speaker 2: 22:48

I'm not entirely sure that you'd have to. I think if the penalties were made clear and there was a zero tolerance to it and it was supported by the courts, would be reduced, I think, over time. Less likely to offend. It would reduce it. Less likely to offend.

Speaker 1: 23:02

Okay, that's one. That's my first Conservatively per person for a youngster, around about 200,000 a year. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 23:11

I understand that.

Speaker 1: 23:12

I understand that so you put five in them per year. A million dollars a year, yeah, to keep them in there, yeah, which you and I are paying for?

Speaker 2: 23:21

Well, we're paying for the Southern Rail Link at the moment.

Speaker 1: 23:23

Well, don't start us on that.

Speaker 9: 23:29

In Yokai and Graham, you wanted to say good morning, hello boys. Well, let's face it, we gave $600 million to set up a rugby team. So what does it cost to keep people safe? You know, really, it's a good point, graeme. Look, it's just a Victorian thing, because I live in Yokon, as Tony knows it. I turned 80 in May. I don't feel unsafe. I'm not concerned about someone coming and breaking into my house or anything. So is this a purely eastern states thing? We've got this out of control thing or what.

Speaker 1: 24:00

Well, there's going to be obviously different degrees around that per state, but that's not to say that there are times in Western Australia, graham, as you know, that it gets really edgy. I mean it's not as if you're right out of having some of those issues that other states do have at the moment.

Speaker 9: 24:17

Look, as you know, tony, I spent a little bit of time doing a bit of jail myself back in 94. The major problem and I saw it then when I came out I spoke to Tom Percy about it were drugs. A guy spoke to a heap of people in jail and they're not there. They don't break into your house to get the money. They get the money to get the drugs Correct and there's got to be a better way to treat people on drugs than stop slamming them in jail, because, let me tell you, they get drugs in jail. They had no trouble getting drugs in jail when I was there.

Speaker 1: 24:56

No, that's right, it's the same, graeme. It's a very, very good point. Thank you, it's always good to hear your voice, graeme. 133693. We've got lots of lines available to get through if you have a comment or a thought or an idea that you'd like to share. 133693. So, just going back to that drug thing, the 14 and the 15-year-olds are they not immersed in this with a condition of available drugs, are they? Or are they, oh yeah, at that age group?

Speaker 2: 25:21

Oh, absolutely Not long out of primary school. Yep, you'd be horrified, tony, you'd be horrified. 14 and 15, driving around in stolen cars, doing aggravated burglaries on people's houses. To think that they're not utilising and using drugs would be terribly naive.

Speaker 1: 25:42

So what's driving that? Why are they so disenfranchised at such an early age that?

Speaker 2: 25:51

they then behave accordingly. See, we talked about this last time, didn't we Do? They have no self-esteem for themselves, and maybe I don't know the answer to that, but you've got to remember that the Chief Commissioner's got to make the suggestion to the Premier. This is what the threat is, so I've got to do that Instead of questioning. Well, I guess you've got to question where it's coming from and why, but I think we've got to. I know, in Singapore, when they had a litter problem, they solved it quick, smart, and they cleaned the city right up, but with the zero tolerance to even dropping a cigarette. But the fines were outrageous and they didn't turn around and say, oh, that's unfair. Whereas here we go, oh, we can't do that because they've had a hard upbringing. You know we can't. No, no, we need to find a better way. And I hear this send them back. Yeah, you know, send them back. What do you mean? Send them back? They live here, they grew up here, they're born here, born here. Where are you going to send them to?

Speaker 1: 26:58

What from?

Speaker 2: 26:59

Sunshine to are born and bred here.

Speaker 1: 26:59

Because the New York model, I think years ago, was that they targeted very much those sorts of things littering. They targeted graffiti in the New York railway stations. They targeted fare evasion and got these little nutters, got them early and penalised them accordingly, because the idea is if you get away with fair evasion, you might get away with a burg. You get away with a burg, you'll keep going and that's escalated Our murderers, if you look in society our premeditated murderers that have people like the Paul Dangers of this world.

Speaker 2: 27:32

The Frankston killer started off on animals with cats and things like that. So if we were to fix people with those what we'd call minor street offences and start off cleaning them up with minor street offences, you'd probably start to teach them a little bit of respect moving up David in Adelaide.

Speaker 1: 27:49

Go ahead, Good morning.

Speaker 6: 27:51

Good morning. Basically, if you want to break the cycle of offending, you need to isolate people from the social group, which will encourage offending such as you make an offence for somebody who's convicted an offence. To associate with other known criminals reduces their peer group pressure to re-offend and also most serious crimes happen after dark. And so you put a curfew on for three years for somebody who's served a prisoner sentence.

Speaker 2: 28:24

But, david, people are being bailed in this state and the conditions of bail are they're not to be out, there's a curfew on them, they're not to associate with people and they're just flying in the face of it. They're just completely ignoring it. And that brings me to my second suggestion. I totally agree with you. You've got to cut them off, you've got to isolate them. And that's why I say, if you put a penalty in place, that if there's two, three or four of you it's going to double, triple, triple or quadruple your penalty, you might think twice about it.

Speaker 1: 28:57

But would they though that's my question that I've said to you At 14, you're going. I better not do this, because I could actually go to prison for five years.

Speaker 2: 29:05

But is there any consistency?

Speaker 1: 29:06

I don't know, do they think that way?

Speaker 2: 29:08

Is there any consistency in the penalty? They know they're not going to get the penalty at the moment. That they know they're not going to get the penalty at the moment.

Speaker 1: 29:15

That's where they need the support. What's your other option before we take another call?

Speaker 2: 29:17

When you're bailed for the second time. Every time you're bailed, you are promising that you will behave. That's why you get bailed, because you are promising that you'll behave, and then you misbehave again the second time that you are released on bail. You've got an anklet. You've already promised that you're going to behave, so you have an anklet, a tracker, that we know where you are and what you do Sure.

Speaker 1: 29:39

Why don't you get it the first time you're on bail?

Speaker 2: 29:43

Yeah, I don't disagree with that. But the first time you've proven that you can't behave yourself. So the second time we're going to make sure that we can't guarantee that you're going to behave yourself with a tracker, but we're going to know that it was you.

Speaker 1: 29:55

But if you've been charged with what most would consider a pretty serious offence even if it is first time you've been charged with that surely most would expect that that little big bugger would be either held and or allowed to go out with a tracker. Yep.

Speaker 2: 30:14

I wouldn't disagree with that. That would be what I'd be going to go through with a tracker. Yep, I wouldn't disagree with that. That would be what I'd be, because you should have nothing to hide. You've promised, you've signed the document that says See, when people hear bail, they think bail is people putting money up, but there's no money. It's literally an undertaking. It is.

Speaker 1: 30:27

Artie you wanted to say Good morning, Tony and Roger.

Speaker 8: 30:33

Personally, I think any new commissioner even I think Jacinda Ardern's done the wrong thing with getting rid of Shane Patton and the major crackdown blitz that's not going to occur. They get bail and they just keep repeating and she should be voted out. I think Brad Patton, being an ex-copper, would clean it up.

Speaker 2: 30:51

I agree, I do agree, and I think we need to look at that. I think people need to seriously consider, and Brad Batten needs to push that really hard. He's an ex-cop, he gets it. He could win the election easily with that. All you've got to do is say I'm an ex-cop and I'll keep you safe and this is what I'm going to do.

Speaker 1: 31:10

Yeah, tell me the public wouldn't vote for him. That's what people are demanding, Yep. I feel sorry for the police arresting youths and then get remanded in a matter of days quite often. My experience last year as you well know, Roger, when we got hit, was that the police know who they are. They already know, they can tell by looking at footage. Quite often by their gait yeah, straight away by their gait, they go oh, that's Billy, that's Billy the Kid. We know who it is.

Speaker 2: 31:40

Yep, yes. When I worked out at Ferntree Gully and lived at Ferntree Gully, we had local car offenders and you could pull up behind a car and, by the way they were driving, you knew who the offender was. You knew which one it was. We'd go oh, that's Billy.

Speaker 1: 31:55

Buck, unbelievable. All right, we'll take some more calls. The other side 1-double-3-6-9-3. It is Australia Overnight Perth. Come and join us. 1-double-3-8-82. We will get to some text as well. 0-4-double-7-6-9-3-6-9. Officer for over 40 years. Have a look at what he does.

Speaker 2: 32:14

You can do that at a underscore healthy underscore shift On Instagram that is A underscore, healthy underscore, shift and a healthyshiftcom or the website.

Speaker 1: 32:25

It's. The website, healthyshiftcom is where you can find it. Just going back to we'll come to you in just a moment, bruno. The idea of these things have got to be put into law, I think. I think that's got to be the priority for the government of the day, and you would imagine that in the next 12 or 18 in Victoria, there could well be a change. You would expect that to happen, yep, so then, if and when that, then those things have got to be enshrined in law to empower law enforcement to be able to really hammer that nail.

Speaker 2: 32:55

But it's not only empowering, it's to give them the confidence that they're going to be supported with the work that they're doing, Because at the moment they don't feel supported. They feel like they're being criticised by management, they're being criticised by the public, they're being criticised by the courts. It's not an easy job. It's not very attractive now.

Speaker 1: 33:14

All right, a couple of quick emails. For under-18s who break the law, penalties should be boot camp middle of Australia on a cattle station somewhere.

Speaker 2: 33:22

See, I agree. I've said conscription, those sort of things work. I've said before I'm pretty sure. Well, would they work? I don't know.

Speaker 1: 33:31

Is that before offence or for everybody? I don't know. Is that before offence or for everybody? I don't know. If you breach bail, offenders should be made to pay if they want bail again. They have no money.

Speaker 2: 33:42

They've got no money to do that and the parents don't have any money. No one's got any money to do that. So what do you say? We don't give them bail? I just think that the bracelet, give them a bracelet, pretty them up a bit so that we know where they are. So when they jump out of the cars and they're running, the beepers are going off everywhere and we know who it is Go back to the old days, public floggings.

Speaker 1: 34:03

I don't know what you're talking about. I'm just raising that. It's not me, but other people are saying that.

Speaker 2: 34:08

I don't know what you're talking about, Bruno hello.

Speaker 11: 34:12

Hi guys, hello, Hi guys. Hey, listen, I think a point that people have missed is that, as our population's increased, our infrastructure has been struggling hospitals, schools, police stations, etc. But the one thing we never hear about is jails, prisons, penitentiary centres, and we have not, especially in Western Australia. We do not build more jails and what we do is say, well, okay, that's a one person cell and one to four people in the jails, if we don't build more penitentiary centres whether it's remedial, custodial or overnight or bail or whatever and the magistrates have got nowhere to send them. So the police can pick them up and they get a granted bail for nothing and they can breach bail, but the magistrates and the courts have got nowhere to send them because the jails are full. We need more holding centres, or whatever you like to call it. As our population's increased, we've increased 5 million over the last three or four years, but we haven't increased the number of jails. Yeah, it's not a bad point.

Speaker 2: 35:33

It's a great point. It's a great point because we're in a position now where I'm sure magistrates and judges told there's no room because police are holding them in holding cells for weeks and weeks at a time.

Speaker 1: 35:46

How did we get to here? This is probably the next question.

Speaker 2: 35:48

How did we get to this? But don't get me wrong here. I know it's political, but it's very political. No-transcript. So, yes, that is how that money is being spent, and I'm sure that the same situation happens in WA and South Australia as well, when we should be spending the money on putting places to hold them.

Speaker 1: 36:11

Now our great friend Denise. Now, denise, hello to you. Hello, now our great friend, denise.

Speaker 4: 36:15

Now, denise, hello to you. Hello Tony, I would like to bring in the cats.

Speaker 1: 36:22

Nine tails. Well, there's a lot of people that would probably agree with you, Denise, but is that the sort of community we want to be, and is that the fear of community we want to be, and would people? Is that the fear of God? Would that work today? I think it would, Jack, because Singapore, Singapore, yeah boy, that was sort of the Singapore model and often people.

Speaker 1: 36:56

Denise, it's a great thought, and New York as well, like you said, new York got very hard, very vicious on crime Under of all pieces, giuliani, and that was transformational. For that, my understanding is that that's thinned down to some degree A little bit.

Speaker 2: 37:11

There's no immediate fix, it's going to be a ripple effect. I actually like the idea of what you say is zero tolerance on the street. Offences to start off with, with the kids, these riding scooters and power bikes, electric bikes and things. They just have to.

Speaker 1: 37:27

Graffiti. I see, I reckon graffiti is a major issue those that damage other people's goods and services. Disrespectful, it's ugly, it's an eyesore. Yep, they do it and they think it looks pretty. It looks shies and owls.

Speaker 2: 37:39

That's terrible, awful. Yeah, I totally agree.

Speaker 1: 37:41

A couple of quickies, Mary hello.

Speaker 4: 37:45

Hi, can I make a suggestion? Please, anybody that is caught, 100% guilty, no court cases, no judges involved, just put them straight to jail. You've got them red-handed. Why not jail them straight away, without court cases?

Speaker 1: 38:03

Well, I think a lot of people would agree with you, but there's massive costs around that which is part of the issue.

Speaker 2: 38:09

Plus, we've got a judicial system of innocent till proven guilty as well.

Speaker 1: 38:12

That's right, Mary. Thank you, We'll do this to a couple more calls 1-336-93 for Australia Overnight. Come and join us. For those that are waiting online, we'll take a few more calls just the other side and we have Clyde Bevan coming up with our music quiz too in the next All Part of Australia Overnight. If you would like to jump on board, not too late, if you'd like to have your say 1-double-3-6-9-3. I'm just going back to the points that you made briefly about what recommendations, whoever the new chief is make recommendations to government would be the number one job. We've been talking about it for an hour. We've talked about it off here together as well. There are so many different versions of possibility.

Speaker 2: 38:52

There is so many different versions, so many. One thing I do think think it's got to be ruthless, it's got to be ruthless, we've lost control completely. Sorry, there is time to be ruthless.

Speaker 1: 39:04

It's time to be ruthless. Is the public demanding a ruthlessness? Yes, they are.

Speaker 2: 39:10

Is government Right up until the ruthlessness happens, and then they will be horrified.

Speaker 1: 39:13

Is government Victorian government in this case set for ruthlessness happens, and then they will be horrified. Is Victorian government, in this case, set for ruthlessness? No, and therein lies the gap, and that is the problem. And do our current existing laws, do they showcase the idea of ruthlessness at the moment? No, not at all. So they've got to be changed. That's right, we'll take your calls. The other side Come and join us. I'm Tony Mecca. Roger Sutherland is here. Your calls coming up 133-693, wherever you are. Top of the morning to you.

Speaker 9: 39:47

Until 5.30 Tony McManus.

Speaker 1: 39:50

That's me. Hello there. If you would like to be part of the program, I think you know how it works by now. If you don't, I'm sure you do 1-double-3-6-9-3. Roger's very kindly going to stay for another 10 or 15 as we lead into the music quiz with Clyde Bevan. We will do that very shortly. We, just because of the WA Chief Commissioner in brackets, resigned.

Speaker 2: 40:16

Yeah the Victorian chief commissioner.

Speaker 1: 40:18

Victorian chief commissioner resigned, and so I mean there'll be a lot of people will write about this, that we thesis, done as to the point of that, what's ultimately achieved by a really great leader, we lose all that expertise. Do you know what really?

Speaker 2: 40:40

saddens me, If I can. He's had 45 years of a fantastic police career and he's going to be remembered for that.

Speaker 1: 40:50

Which is not the way anybody would want to be remembered. Chris, for just doing their job to the best of Chris. In Minyip, you wanted to have a say Hi.

Speaker 10: 41:00

Yeah, good morning guys. Look, I just sort of feel the frustration about all this that we all seem to feel as if they're out on bail all the time, these offenders that commit the carjacking and the housebreaking and things. I just sort of look at it and I think the biggest problem is you can't get them into court quick enough so they can't hold them. That's a good point. The courts are so backlogged.

Speaker 10: 41:34

Yeah. So I don't know. We almost need another court to set up to process these sort of things in a quicker timeframe. I don't know what sort of timeframe. You would have to give them like seven days to get their stuff together and then it goes in. I actually like this.

Speaker 2: 42:00

I actually like this. I think it's good because I think there's so much time that goes by from the time that a person is arrested until the time they get caught.

Speaker 1: 42:10

Until they're front court for the first incident.

Speaker 2: 42:12

In the meantime they've committed so many offences. Then the police combine them all and present them all in one, and then they just get a combination. We'll remove these, take these ones out. There's plea bargaining done and then it's all washed down, but there's still victims out there.

Speaker 1: 42:28

Still victims and they quite often it doesn't always feel as if the victims are heard.

Speaker 2: 42:34

No, the victims are not heard.

Speaker 1: 42:36

Tom. Thank you, chris.

Speaker 12: 42:40

Good morning gents. As a courtesy, if you could, please just let me have my say.

Speaker 1: 42:44

Please, you go far away, tommy.

Speaker 12: 42:46

Go. Okay, I'm in my late 60s Now. Me and my three brothers are brought up pretty tough at home. You're not going back far enough, mate, all of you. You actually need to go back to the family structure where there was discipline. Since the late 70s, every government or persuasions have taken away the right of the family structure and actually helped to split it up by giving rise to 12 and 13-year-olds to leave home and actually financially support them to break the family up and taking away the right of the parents to discipline their children. You need to start at home. I stole a packet of PK chewing gum when I was 11 years old. The storekeeper grabbed me and pulled it to my father and my father flogged me in or whatever. The only thing I've taken since without permission is bloody oxygen. Seriously, this is going to go right back to the family structure and we also need to have magistrates who actually have kahunas to actually pass a sentence. When you hear a lot of statements these magistrates are making, they're off with the bloody fairies.

Speaker 1: 43:54

Well, it feels like that, tommy, there's no doubt. But again, they can only do what the law allows them to do. But, thank you, a good point about the family environment, yep. I agree. There is which we could explore in another program, but I think there is something in that.

Speaker 2: 44:09

Totally. And teachers, it's not Mr or Mrs anymore, it's Mick. And what's he doing, leo?

Speaker 1: 44:15

hi.

Speaker 14: 44:18

G'day. Is it me, leo, or a different Leo?

Speaker 1: 44:21

I don't know Is your name.

Speaker 14: 44:23

Leo Go ahead.

Speaker 1: 44:23

Leo, Sorry Leo. I beg your pardon, he's your name Leo. Yeah, go ahead, leo. No, no, you're right, sorry, leo, there's so many Leos. I beg your pardon, there is a Leo. It's just got Leo here. It doesn't tell me where you're calling from.

Speaker 14: 44:31

Wasn't sure whether or not you were talking to me this time. Sorry, Leo. I'm just curious what you think belted at home if they're busy running around the streets? That's one point. Number two would be who gets the authority to beat children for corporal punishment, right? Is it the copper that catches them? Is it the screw that holds them in the prison cell? Do you hand them back to the parent? That is more than likely beating them all, if not touching them up, right? No one knows why these kids have snapped and doing the crap they're doing.

Speaker 1: 45:13

Leo, let me just put that to Roger as a former cop. So in terms of what you saw over the years, the change or the shift, if you like, in relationship inside the family, the family, yeah, I mean, we're not recommending family violence. You don't want to go back to that idea of family violence the families have given up on them because they've tried everything that they can possibly try and then they just give up.

Speaker 2: 45:35

I think the perception of the public and this is what we've got to be very careful of I think the public has this perception of like they raise their children, these children are raised. The public has this perception of like they raised their children, these children are raised. So you think that if I brought little Johnny back to Tony you know, father Tony and handed you over, you're going to punish him like the public would expect? That's not what happens. No, that's not the reality.

Speaker 2: 46:00

It's not the reality of it Like this sit him down and give him a good talking to, and when these kids are out at night and you say, where's the parents? Well, the parents are home in bed. Yeah, because the parents don't know that the kids are out or have no control over them at all.

Speaker 1: 46:15

Jim in Warrnambool hello, hello, jim. We'll come back to you in just a moment, laura. We'll come to you, laura, hi.

Speaker 13: 46:25

Hello. I'll come back to you in just a moment, laura. We'll come to you, laura. Hi, hello.

Speaker 13: 46:27

It appears to me there's just far too much fiddling around the edges, just going around in circles with this issue. What this world needs is a global consciousness change effectively. I believe in prophecy very much. This prophet, this great, famous prophet. She's passed away. She said there will come a time when people will dramatically change. I won't be alive, but I know it will happen. We all have better, happier, more peaceful times ahead of us. People will realize the existence of the spiritual world.

Speaker 13: 47:05

I'm trying to get everybody interested in electronic spirit communication, which everybody will be engaging in in the future. And when you mentioned instilling the fear of God into people, that will come about, because I've been engaging in this through communication for 30 years and, yes, I can see it as a surefire route to affect global consciousness change. And also, we need a mission statement, like, our first mission in life is to alleviate, eliminate suffering. After all, why did the great divine one come to the planet, jesus Christ? His mandate, if you like, was all about eliminating suffering. We have taken our eye off the ball very much so. Why do cults, their principles, actually work Because they inculcate, inculcate. We have to get the young people at a very young age and instill this mission statement.

Speaker 1: 48:09

Well, you might be right about that. A lot of indoctrination has happened over the years and maybe we've gone off the boil there that people no longer go to the churches as they once did when you and I were growing up, roger. I mean, that's really Sunday school, I think we were talking about. Yeah, well, that's right. Sunday school, I think we were talking about. Yeah well, that's right. Sunday school was a thing, or you'd go to churches on a Sunday and there'd be a mass at 7 o'clock, 8 o'clock, 9 o'clock, 10 o'clock, 11 o'clock. Parishes now might have two on a Sunday morning. That's right. I just wonder whether there's something in that.

Speaker 2: 48:37

I also said with Laura where she opened with we've got too much fluff around the edges, we're not actually addressing the issue.

Speaker 1: 48:44

Bang get in there and address the issue. Jimmy, we've got you back again.

Speaker 15: 48:50

You wanted to say good morning, yeah, and like I was speaking before about the delay in the courts and that I was sort of going to get onto that, and I've sort of read a couple of articles over the time, you know, the last few years, and they sort of highlight how, when it comes to grabbing someone, just say there's evidence, right. A cop might say it's drugs, right, but it could be six months or more before it gets analysed and the person gives that evidence to the court and things like that. And also, too, judges and lawyers at times apparently, and also to lawyers, and at times apparently they spend a lot of time unnecessarily dragging the trial out. Like an example a lawyer might be waffling on. The judge knows he's waffling on. If he steps in and tells him to shut up and get on with it, there'd be accusations. Then the client didn't get a fair trial. Tells him to shut up and get on with it, There'd be accusations. Then the client didn't get a fair trial.

Speaker 1: 49:51

And you know, put it simply, the lawyers know too, if the bloke is innocent or not, or guilty. Do they, though? Do?

Speaker 15: 49:57

they though. You've got to come up. Are you there? Yeah?

Speaker 1: 50:02

I said I'll just ask you a question, jimmy. Do they know we used to talk about the lawyers? Do they really always know? Is the question I'm asking, jimmy. I think we've lost you for some strange reason. I'm not too sure what happened there? However, it's a good point that he makes about the tone of a trial.

Speaker 2: 50:21

We could do that in another program as well, but that's a tactic and I think a judge or a magistrate does need to call that out. But it's a tactic because the idea is to delay it with waffle and confuse everyone as to what's actually being said and done.

Speaker 1: 50:34

But that's the system that we have in Australia? Yep, it is, and so how do you the laws need to change to reflect that? That's not an option for the courts to behave that way. And I'm not too sure that's going to happen.

Speaker 2: 50:52

Well, that's not going to happen. But, like our previous caller said before, we're not addressing the actual issue. We're fluffing around and trying to peripherise. Oh, we'll put a working party on it, let's just.

Speaker 1: 51:04

A working party Harden up sunshine Harden up.

Speaker 2: 51:07

Let's just get straight into it and make some proper penalties. We'll let you go, it's always good to see.

Speaker 1: 51:12

If people want to know more, they can have a look at what you do, which is a healthyshiftcom Healthyshiftcom, and we'll see you in a couple of weeks down.

Speaker 2: 51:20

Absolutely you will. I'll see you then. Thanks for having me. Thank you, roger.

Speaker 1: 51:24

Sutherland Roger, regular contributor to the program Australia. Overnight, it is Clyde Bevan's music quiz. It's coming up next. Stay with us.