Speaker 1: 1:11

I could tell when I was speaking to you that you really are an expert in this field and it was so amazing to walk away from the call knowing that shit. This person actually knows what they're doing and they actually understand what I've been through and to have someone so relatable and someone who really knew what I had gone through. I have full trust in you after that call.

Speaker 2: 1:41

Shift work can be brutal, but it doesn't have to be. Welcome to a healthy shift. My name is Roger Sutherland, certified Nutritionist, veteran Law Enforcement Officer and 24-7 shift worker for almost four decades. Through this podcast, I aim to educate shift workers using evidence-based methods, to not only survive the rigours of shift work but thrive. My goal is to empower shift workers to improve their health and wellbeing so they have more energy to do the things they love. Enjoy today's show. Energy to do the things they love. Enjoy today's show and welcome to another episode of a Healthy Shift podcast.

Speaker 2: 2:22

I'm your host, roger Sutherland, and today I'm really excited to bring another guest to us, and today's guest is Tam Epstein. Now, tam is someone who I'd followed for some time because I knew she was working in emergency services and she was coaching other people and had good goals of her own, and I could see certain things that she was doing that I thought, oh, have you tried this or would you consider that? And I didn't want to be that person, but I could see, because of her goals, where I could possibly help her to improve. So I set up a meeting and Tam and I have become social media friends since then. I really helped Tam and you are going to hear in this podcast how that meeting between the two of us completely changed and I mean completely changed an eight-year shift working female's life and now she is absolutely thriving, doesn't even fear the night shift, in fact. She'll tell us all about it in the podcast. I'm not going to go on with it, let's just get into the show today. Welcome to the show. Tam Epstein, how are you?

Speaker 1: 3:29

I'm fabulous, Roger. How are you?

Speaker 2: 3:31

I know I say this at the start of every podcast because I really genuinely get excited at the guests that I've had, but we've got a really unique connection you and I don't. We.

Speaker 1: 3:42

We absolutely do.

Speaker 2: 3:43

Okay, so we're going to get into that as the podcast goes, but first of all, most importantly, you better tell everyone who Tam is. A bit about yourself and actually your background.

Speaker 1: 3:55

I am 33 years young and I am a full-time shift worker in emergency services, and I also have a huge passion for health and fitness. It's probably my greatest passion. I have been on quite the journey over the years, myself and I have battled so many challenges. The journey over the years myself and I have battled so many challenges, and I'm also an online fitness coach helping other women find their way in their own journeys, who I can obviously relate to.

Speaker 2: 4:25

Fantastic Tam. Now I want to go into what your battles have been, because you started shift work, you said eight years ago. Now you've competed and been to stage, haven't you?

Speaker 1: 4:37

I have. I did a bodybuilding show whilst full-time shift working. I think it was in 2022, for memory, sorry, time's just flown by. So having to juggle comp prep life with shift work and normal life was the greatest challenge I've ever dealt with.

Speaker 2: 4:57

I've got a friend, brianna Jones, who I've interviewed on the podcast as well. Bri, who's also works in emergency services full-time shift work as well and got to stage and earned her own pro card as well, and I did a podcast with her and she's gone into just how full-on it actually is. So carrying plastic containers into the mess room and being laughed at by the colleagues is quite common, isn't it?

Speaker 1: 5:22

Absolutely, and lugging a massive bag of food around everywhere you go on shift is just the norm for me, really.

Speaker 2: 5:29

Yeah, I know that's fantastic Now, so tell me so. You got to stage and then you came out of stage yourself. It didn't go well, did it?

Speaker 1: 5:37

No, it didn't, and it's a part of my journey that I'm not ashamed of, because I feel like this is the reality of competing is post-show. I probably didn't have a very good support network per se and I probably wasn't really ready for the stress that my body had just undergone, and being able to manage that stress with work and I pretty much took a downward spiral, like physically and mentally, also trying to show up for work as well, was a really, really big challenge for me, and I feel like I lost my way for a big part of six to 12 months. It was the biggest struggle, mentally and physically as well. I probably ended up my absolute worst by the end of it, but I can proudly say I am back at my absolute best and that was such a big learning experience for me.

Speaker 2: 6:31

Yeah, you look absolutely fantastic and for those that haven't seen Tam now, her journey is posted on her Instagram and we will put the links into the show notes as well, as I'll get you to tell everybody where they are, because I think it's a very, very important part of the journey. A lot of girls, guys, a lot of people really struggle coming out of shows with the reverse diet, and I think they normally struggle in their nine to five jobs, so you've had a complication. That's been added to that with 24 seven shift work, full time as well, which really does add another dynamic to that, because I'm going to put it on you that wearing your uniform every day is the worst reminder ever, isn't it?

Speaker 1: 7:17

Absolutely.

Speaker 2: 7:18

Yeah, so every day when you go to work and you put that uniform on, you can feel the direction that you are heading in. How did that impact on you?

Speaker 1: 7:28

For me personally, it was a very, very difficult situation. Through my post-show experience, I'd obviously gained quite a substantial amount of weight and it was taking quite a mental toll on myself. And then, obviously, having to go to work, put my uniform on, the amount of times I had to get different pant sizing and things like that, and I just genuinely did not feel happy or confident or comfortable in my own skin and I honestly feel like it made it really hard for me to show up both inside work and outside of work, because I felt like I could not bring myself together and put my uniform on and show up and pretend to be happy when I really just wasn't going okay.

Speaker 2: 8:19

I think that's a great response too, and this gives you a really, really good grounding in the background of how to help other people in that position as well. Now and you use that as part of your story, don't you? Definitely Fantastic. Let's go back to as that and in that position there, and also as a female shift worker that's been doing it for eight years, can you talk us through the impacts that shift work has had on you biologically, physically, mentally in the past? Has it had an impact on you?

Speaker 1: 8:53

Absolutely it has, and I honestly wouldn't know where to begin. I'd have to say the first thing that comes to mind would 100% be sleep and fatigue that comes with shift work. I mean, let's face it, our bodies don't really know what day it is, let alone what time of the day it is or whether our body needs to be awake or asleep. And that is still a constant battle with shift work and, of course, it has such a massive impact on us day to day. We have constant disruption with our sleep late nights, early mornings, and we are constantly exhausted. So I feel like over time you sort of learn to deal and adapt to it. But at the end of the day, eight hours of sleep isn't possible for a shift worker, and if it is, it's a really, really good day.

Speaker 1: 9:44

Yeah, the next one would probably be bloating and digestion, and I think a lot of my colleagues feel the same or experience the same.

Speaker 1: 9:55

And the reality is that we eat at such odd hours every day and it is not like a nine-to-five job where you might have specific eating times. You know, we might have a very early morning shift where we're up at 4am, or an afternoon shift where we might have overtime and finish at midnight. Then you throw a night shift in the works and all of these things really impact digestion and cravings and we often are bloated, our bodies don't know what is going on and digestion is a huge, huge issue. So being able to adapt as a shift worker in when you're going to eat your meals, what those meals might look like, and opting for last minute changes is something that's just had to become the normal way for me going forward, because you cannot go into a shift as a shift worker with a solid plan on when you're going to have your meals, what you're going to eat. It's just not possible and you do just have to learn to adapt.

Speaker 2: 10:53

Totally Did you realize what you were in for biologically, as far as shift work went, before you started?

Speaker 1: 10:59

Not at all. I don't think you can really be prepared.

Speaker 2: 11:02

No, you absolutely cannot be. So when we talk about things like bloating and digestive issues, gas and particularly as a female as well Tam around your cycle and things like that, it can have a massive impact. So did you understand why it was like that?

Speaker 1: 11:20

To be honest, no, not at all. I kind of just how my body responded early on. I just accepted as that, it just is what it is, but I never really understood or looked into it too much.

Speaker 2: 11:31

Fantastic. You have a partner. What about your life outside and relationships? How did you find the impact of the shift work with your partner as well? Now is your partner aligned with you and your goals and exactly what you do?

Speaker 1: 11:46

We're very, very different.

Speaker 1: 11:47

So I'm very health and fitness orientated, but not so much for himself.

Speaker 1: 11:53

So it is quite selfish, I guess, and I feel with, in general, family life, relationships, friendships, shift work sort of becomes like everything and you've just got to fit general life around it and for me, health and fitness is a really, really big part of my life and it's probably like right up there is one of the biggest thing I'm passionate about.

Speaker 1: 12:20

So when you've got shift work and you've got such a huge passion for health and fitness and then you've obviously got family life, relationships, friendships, it's really really hard to juggle that as a shift worker and the reality is you're going to miss important events, you're going to miss birthdays, you've got to make decisions about when you're going to go out. Going out for meals might be less and less and less in the beginning. I think it is a big shock to the system when you've come from I guess, like a nine to five life into shift work. But I don't think your family and your friends and the people around you realize just how much the shift work life takes over. So you know, I do go weeks without seeing family and friends. I go months without seeing friends and I think over time, as hard as the adjustment is, they do generally adjust.

Speaker 2: 13:15

I totally agree with that and I think, also talking about your fitness that you have because you are so passionate about it, with the way you go about it and what you do and the cycles of growth and cutting and lifting and different programs, it's a really healthy interest for you to have outside of shift work as well, because you're learning about that, you're doing all of that, so it doesn't make shift work your whole life as well. Is that a fair comment?

Speaker 1: 13:43

Very fair comment. I definitely prioritize my health and fitness as much as I can.

Speaker 2: 13:48

Yeah, you're not just doing that for you personally, but you're doing it as a work-life balance as well. It, as a work-life balance as well, it's really important, because what it does with you too, tam, is it also puts you in an environment of like-minded people, as friends as well, doesn't it?

Speaker 1: 14:04

A hundred percent.

Speaker 2: 14:10

And everyone cheers each other on, which is fantastic. Now let's move on. So, over your journey of the last eight years, you would have done plenty of shifts, from the early days right the way up to where you are now. What shift has the biggest impact on you and why does it?

Speaker 1: 15:27

This question makes me laugh, because all the people around me know and I feel like my Instagram following know that night shift has been the death of me for the last eight years Now. This has just been a battle and I feel like I have never done night shift well, or I feel like I've found a way that's worked, but it really just hasn't. And, as I touched on before, your body just doesn't even know what time of day it is, let alone when to sleep, when to be awake, when to eat, and I think for me, sleep, fatigue, stress, my training was the impact. This was all at the absolute worst with my night shifts and my body always took a toll on these weeks because of it. And it's really hard for me because I thrive off routine and if I can't do the things that make me feel happy and strong and confident, I feel horrendous.

Speaker 2: 16:27

So when anyone saw that Tam had night shift on the roster, it was head for the hills, wasn't it? It was no. Tell me, I'm not working with her, for God's sake.

Speaker 1: 16:36

Yeah, I swear. When I had my most recent night shift just a few weeks before that, I said when I had my most recent night shift just a few weeks before that, I said I'm not going to do night shift anymore, I'm done with it. So yeah, then I copped a night shift.

Speaker 2: 16:49

We had that. Yeah, I'm not doing night shift anymore. Bang, here we are. Here's another night shift for you. Oh my God, we'll get into that one shortly, because it's been an interesting journey since then, actually, since that statement, it's been a very, very interesting journey for you. You are, in particular, you're very meticulous in tracking your food weighing, your meal preps, your gym routines. Night shift would have killed you because of just having to flip everything around and being totally out of routine and it becomes frustrating, doesn't it? Like you can't do you. You can't do what you want to do. Why is it so important for you to be so meticulous in tracking your food weighing and also your meal preps?

Speaker 1: 17:30

I think a lot of people around me to this day still think I'm crazy around how meticulous I am with it, but the reality is that tracking my food with it, but the reality is that tracking my food, doing my meal prep, has been a part of my life for so many years and it is sort of the norm. It's what I'm comfortable with and I think for me, as I still have some you know really big fitness goals, I need to be specific with training and nutrition, but not so much that I genuinely just enjoy it.

Speaker 2: 18:06

And, yeah, it's your happy place, isn't it?

Speaker 1: 18:08

Absolutely. I just make it work with shift work and I feel like I thrive more when I'm actually monitoring these things closely.

Speaker 2: 18:18

Well, it's brought you back in fairness to a lot. Now anyone that follows me will know that I'm actually against tracking, and particularly for shift workers myself when I say I'm against it people that have got particular sports-orientated goals and things like that I can understand it, but I think generally for people it creates a lot of disordered eating behaviors and issues. It's a whole other podcast in itself. But with you it is your happy place and if I took you on as a client I would go absolutely with that, because that's what keeps you happy and how you are happy and what you're doing, and that comes down to individual bespoke coaching. So how does tracking weighing getting gym sessions in, because you know you probably have to train five, six times a week.

Speaker 1: 19:06

I'm training four times at the moment.

Speaker 2: 19:08

Four times at the moment. Yeah, good, excellent, that's really good. It's not unusual for people to be training five. So you're training four times and doing all that. How do you find all of that ties in with your actual shift working life? Because, to be fair and we haven't covered this but you are a full-time shift worker as well.

Speaker 1: 19:23

It honestly took years to adapt. I remember in the job at one point I was 70 kilos and years later I was 90 kilos.

Speaker 2: 19:30

Whoa 20 kilos.

Speaker 1: 19:32

Yeah, so obviously it took a huge toll on me mentally and physically, because it is really easy to let yourself go as a shift worker and I feel like when I did let myself go is when I stopped doing what was working for me and that sort of brings me back to when I'm tracking closely and training really hard and I do have really good balance with it. I actually, and it doesn't necessarily work for everyone, but it works for me and I make it easy to fit in with full-time shift work because it is a priority.

Speaker 2: 20:09

Because you've been doing it and it just comes to second nature, whereas if you're trying to educate people now how to go about putting a meal prep together and getting so much protein and so many carbs and so many fats and this is what you got to do it's so overwhelming for them that they end up giving up, but you've been doing it a long time. So what are your goals right now? You've been to stage. You've had that blowout after as your reverse diet and got to the stage where you've just said you went from 70 kilos to 90. It's taken a toll on your mental and physically and you have cut down to. Looking strong and healthy is what I would say, not someone I would stuff with, I can tell you now but you do.

Speaker 2: 20:50

You look strong and healthy, and that's exactly what a woman wants to look, don't they? You don't need to be skinny fat. You want to be strong, don't you? Yeah, and I love seeing the girls in the gym in the free weights areas and squatting and doing all of those exercises that used to be a male-dominated area. So I do, and I've spoken about this on the podcast before and I love it. So what are your goals now? You've got yourself to a stage to where you are quite comfortable. You've taken on a coach and you've gone in another direction now.

Speaker 1: 21:20

So what are you doing?

Speaker 1: 21:21

I'm sort of just taking things as it comes, because I'm still working shift work.

Speaker 1: 21:25

I'm doing online coaching as well and I have a really big passion for helping the women that I'm coaching, so that is a priority of mine.

Speaker 1: 21:32

But in terms of my own physique goals, I guess we could say so I'm in a build phase at the moment, which is something I haven't really done properly before, and I think this is probably why I had a downward spiral after my first show was I didn't actually go through a build phase. I didn't build my calories up, I didn't build any muscle, and I think that's what let me down at the end of it. So for me, I'm starting I guess we could say a build phase and I'm just going to do it long term, build some muscle and really enjoy the new challenge, because now it's about eating more, which means more meal prep, taking more food to work, having more meals during the day. So I really just want to thrive and enjoy this new challenge and then hopefully build for six to 12 months and then, honestly, after that, I've just got to see where I'm at with everything as to what may come next.

Speaker 2: 22:31

That's exciting. A build is exciting, but you've got to get comfortable being uncomfortable as well, don't you? Because you've worked really, really hard, really, really hard. And this is where a lot of guys, a lot of girls in particular, will do a build for four weeks or five weeks and then they run back to the deficit again because they've started to put a little bit of fluff on, but it's natural to do that.

Speaker 2: 22:59

I think we've watched some great people fitness influencers become uncomfortable. I think people like Hattie Boydle and Lauren Simpson are good people to watch, where they've become quite uncomfortable, being a bit fluffy, but once they cut down, that's where everyone goes. Oh my God, was all that hiding under there? And that's the exciting part of revealing it. You know what you got to do and you'll just do it. I wish you all the best with that, because I think you'll go really really well. Let's get into the really really important part here. We crossed paths some time ago, and can you tell our listeners exactly how that came about and what it was that eventuated from that path crossing?

Speaker 1: 23:30

Of course. Well, I've obviously been following you for quite some time, probably before I even reached out it's wild so I already knew what your background was and so much of what you shared was relatable to my life and relatable to work, and I feel like I just sat back and watched everything you had to share and it was just so invaluable. I kick myself for not reaching out soon enough, but I did flick you a message and you sent me a Calendly link to book a call to meet Roger and I was like, oh, I wonder how this will go. I've never really spoken to him before and I was buzzing after the call like it was the best call I've ever had, and I spoke to my colleagues about it as well. I just I couldn't believe it. We basically just spoke about work and next minute we were talking about night shift and the battles that I had over the last eight years and you helped me with some protocols that I implemented and yeah, it was the best thing that happened.

Speaker 2: 24:37

It was for me. It was the biggest buzz for me, tam, because you influence a lot of people your girls around you with how you go about doing what you're doing. And I remember how our conversation came about. You had posted a night shift meal prep and I looked at it and I went, oh my God, like I nearly died when I saw what you were doing and I thought, if you have got body goals, I reckon I could improve that by 1%. And that's all I was thinking at the time. I could prove it by 1% by just helping you.

Speaker 2: 25:08

Anyway, we got on the call, we had a chat and I came off it thinking I wonder if she'll actually do anything here, because she seemed pretty keen and I think we'll see if she's going to do anything. Now, in fairness, and so people understand, this was literally a free console. And we talked through some protocols because my goal is always I just want to help shift workers and I thought if I can coach somebody else to understand and learn the optimal way to go through a night shift, then you can take that protocol on and you can help with that, because this is the way I coach my clients. Now you've said that you've come off it buzzing, but how did you find meeting me in that time? When people do come on a meet, they go oh, you're nothing like I imagined that you were going to be. Is that how you found it?

Speaker 1: 25:54

I think so. It was an awesome meeting. I feel like we could have chatted for hours. I could tell when I was speaking to you that you really are an expert in this field, and it was so amazing to walk away from the call knowing that shit. This person actually knows what they're doing Like and they actually understand what I've been through. And to have someone so relatable and someone who really knew what I had gone through so relatable and someone who really knew what I had gone through.

Speaker 2: 26:26

I had full trust in you after that call. Now that means the world to me, tam. It really does, because I really work hard on understanding the science. But I also know that there's a lot of researchers out there that try and tell us what to do without ever having done shift work, and it doesn't work, does it? No, it does not work. You've got to have lived shift work and understood shift work to be able to coach shift workers with that empathy and that understanding and to be able to support them in their bad days and their good days.

Speaker 2: 26:59

I hope you're enjoying the show. If you are, please don't forget to rate and review once you've finished. This helps the show's reach enormously. And have you got my free ebook, the Best Way to Eat on Night Shift? Well, this is a comprehensive guide to the overnight fast, why we should fast and how to best go about it. I've even included a few recipes to help you and how to best go about it. I've even included a few recipes to help you. I've put a link to the ebook in the show notes. And are you really struggling with shift work and feel like you're just crawling from one shift to the next. Well, I've got you. If you would like to work with me, I can coach you to thrive, not just survive, while undertaking the rigors of 24-7 shift work. While undertaking the rigours of 24-7 shift work, I also conduct in-house live health and wellbeing seminars where I will come to your workplace and deliver evidence-based information to help your wellbeing team to reduce unplanned leave and increase productivity in your workplace. I've put the links in the show notes to everything mentioned. You can find me at ahealthyshiftcom or on Instagram at a underscore healthy, underscore shift.

Speaker 2: 28:10

Now let's get back to the show. We went through quite a bit in that call with you. I think we talked for nearly two hours, but we went through quite a bit when we restructured your whole night shift week, because when we spoke from memory, it was the Saturday before you started night shift on the Sunday and for those that are listening that are outside of our own area, tam does seven nights of night shift that starts at generally 11 pm and finishes at 7 am and I'd looked at it and we looked at what she was doing and how she was going about it. Now Tam had goals and she is a meticulous tracker, so I worked with that, and we just manipulated it all around, didn't we? So you still got your calories in, but had to make sure that you got them in at the right time. What changes did you make as a result of the meeting with me? What was it and why did you do it?

Speaker 1: 29:08

I feel like we changed everything, as you said, and I was sceptical at first. But I put full trust in you because, as I said, I got off that call and I knew that you knew what you were doing. So I said to myself I'm just going to implement what we spoke about. So we pretty much changed, like the nutrition approach. So, yes, I was still tracking my macros, but we had to make a slight adjustment according to the way that our bodies changed during night shift weeks. So that was a really big one. And changing the way or the order that I might eat in or the timing of my meals was another really big one.

Speaker 1: 29:44

I think everyone knows that sleep and night shift with myself we do not work at all. So we completely just the routine. I went with what you said. I was very surprised and some of the other things were just slightly changing what I would do when I would wake up, no matter what time of the day it would be, and just slight tweaks to what I might do. There were so many things that we changed. Not that it was difficult, it was a little bit different, but I just trusted it and I did it.

Speaker 2: 30:16

You were messaging me within days of oh my God, I can't believe this.

Speaker 1: 30:20

I'm pretty sure I messaged you like maybe even a day in and I was like wow.

Speaker 2: 30:24

Yeah, because we did change it an awful lot. Put it this way you were still getting the sleep, but we changed how you did it. You were still getting all your food in, but we changed how you did it. You were still getting your steps in, but we changed where you did it, and we were still getting your resistance training sessions in and you were hitting PBs.

Speaker 1: 30:44

That's the craziest thing for me because I think night shifts of the past I was barely surviving, Like I, to get up and to go and train off hardly any sleep. I felt sluggish, I was literally surviving. So I was completely and utterly blown away from my most recent night shift with just how my body responded. It was probably the best I feel like it's ever been, if I'm honest.

Speaker 2: 31:11

How significant were the impact of the changes that I suggested to you.

Speaker 1: 31:15

Honestly massive. As I said before, night shifts, it was just about surviving. So the changes that we made were pretty much life-changing. When it comes to shift work and night shift, you know I hated night shift for the way my body felt and how sluggish I would feel, not only during night shift week but after night shift week. Coming out of it was. I felt horrid, yeah, but obviously the night shift that I did recently with the protocols that you suggested for me, I was buzzing. It was as if I'd never just done a night shift. So I came out of it. I felt incredible. I went back to work. My colleagues who I did night shift with one of them was really struggling and I felt bad walking around like buzzing. But yeah, more than happy to give another night shift a crack because I just feel like what we did worked and I felt so good, Sorry, what was that?

Speaker 2: 32:13

Can you just repeat that again? You said sorry, something about doing another night shift.

Speaker 1: 32:18

Yeah, I actually think I put one down for my birthday, so that's how much I love it.

Speaker 2: 32:22

Oh, my God, you're going to give yourself a birthday treat over your night shift. I love this. This is really quite significant and it's very humbling for me. Now you and I have obviously we've swapped a lot of messages texts because even going through you would ask me questions but I think what the most important point here for people to understand is because you are fairly finely tuned as a machine yourself with what you do, with your nutrition and your health and well-being, your steps and going to the gym.

Speaker 2: 32:52

It was significant and it showed how much of an impact disrupted circadian rhythm can have on you and how much of a problem that will cause. It was basically a two week write-off for you. Not only were you dealing with that and the frustration of that, but your body it wasn't in your happy place in any way whatsoever. The impact was severe. Now for you to go through the night shift and bounce out of the night shift, I knew because of you and who you are. Just from what I'd seen, I knew that I could do this for you. I knew that this would work for you if you just followed the bouncing ball. Now there was a day I think from memory there was one or two days where you did actually get overtime, didn't you? And you were late coming home, and we worked around that on the fly, didn't we? And that was the beauty of having someone to help you so we could work on it on the fly, and this is the benefit of having a coach that you can contact.

Speaker 1: 33:50

There were a few instances I think it was definitely one or two, as you said and I was like, oh, what do I do? Didn't really factor in overtime and I flicked your message and I said like, hey, rog, I've got OT, what do you suggest I do with this or with this? And you came back to me pretty quickly with a response and we did work through it together. It was a little bit collaborative and that's what I really liked about it.

Speaker 2: 34:12

Love it and that's exactly what it is and how you coach and I coach, and this is why I think this is where it's so important for people who are looking for coaching that work in a shift working space to have someone who understands it and can work with it for them, because their PT at the local gym does not get it at all, do they?

Speaker 1: 34:37

Absolutely not.

Speaker 2: 34:38

Not in any way Out of everything that we changed, because we completely turned you around and changed you. So what did you learn most of all out of what I suggested that you actually put into place?

Speaker 1: 34:50

Most of all is how important the circadian alignment is on our general well-being. I don't think I quite realized how much of an impact it has and what we could actually do about what wasn't really working for me, especially on night shift. So I do night shift completely different to what I have in the past where, as I keep saying, I was basically surviving. I was like crawling my way through the week, and now I'm just thriving, I'm buzzing over it and I'm trying to like give my colleagues tips and things like that, because I went through that week of night shifts and I saw other people struggling and I felt wrong walking around the way, that I felt like I felt really good.

Speaker 2: 35:39

You felt like you're ripping them off. I'm ripping them off, yeah.

Speaker 1: 35:42

Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2: 35:43

But that wasn't you, because normally they're carrying you through that, aren't they? Normally it's, oh my God, put her over in the corner, let her sleep, leave her alone, and that's what it was always like for you. If I can just back over just that one point to start off with, I think it's easy for a shift worker just to accept that this is what it is, but it doesn't have to be that way.

Speaker 1: 36:03

No, it definitely doesn't, and I think my mindset over the years was it is what it is. Well, that's just night shift, because I didn't really know any other way, and you know previous night shifts I'd try and get sleeping tablets or I'd try and do all these other things. That really probably worked against me. When there were so many things that we just changed not hugely that made the biggest difference to me and I think probably one of the key things from it is when I came out of this week of night shift usually on a Monday, tuesday after my night shifts I'm really bloated. I've generally gained a little bit, my body's fluffy, I'm holding on to water, but I feel like the night shift I just went through.

Speaker 1: 36:48

I actually came out looking quite lean, which was really strange, so I would have had a minor drop in weight, but visually I looked as if I hadn't just done a night shift. I felt and I looked amazing. I also learned that I could still be energized for non-negotiables and things that were really important to me. I didn't have to get through the week and feel crap about training or slugging my way through steps or having a meal prep. I felt energized and happy to get it done and I think that's the main thing is, you don't have to slog your way through the week. You can actually thrive and get it done with purpose, and I think that's what I did that week.

Speaker 2: 37:38

You still did it with purpose in both sides of your life. You did the night shift with purpose, but you also really embraced the day as well.

Speaker 1: 37:49

Yes, and I feel like my days were very different this time around, because on previous night shifts the day was a write-off. Everyone says your day is a write-off, but I feel like what we changed, I feel like I actually had a day, and that's probably what made the biggest change for me was I actually had part of my day where I got things done that made me happy and filled my cup up, and then it was so much easier to get ready for work and go to work knowing I had done everything I wanted to and I felt so good for it.

Speaker 2: 38:21

That's the key, without any doubt whatsoever.

Speaker 2: 38:24

That's the mic drop. I reckon you got to do you so. Then you were happy to go to work and let them have their piece of you as well. Yes, yeah, I think that's just fantastic. You've talked about that. You're normally struggling and everyone else was struggling, but there's Tam just up and about buzzing and everyone's going. What are you on? Pretty much.

Speaker 2: 38:45

How much better did your body feel? You came out of it quite lean. You felt good. There's no water retention, which comes from a misaligned circadian rhythm as well. There's also a lot of inflammation because of circadian misalignment as well, but we fix the circadian alignment with simple little tweaks. That made a big difference. I love this. Honestly. I'm going to say this to you because I thought you were going to be a hard nut. You are hard because you're hard-headed as well, aren't you? Is that a fair call? Yeah, hard-headed. It was going to take some convincing to say to you this is the way you should go about it and have you go. And you did, and now you get to go and spread the good word, and I absolutely love this for you as well. Absolutely love this for you as well, because now the time that you've been in doing what you're doing and you've got a journey to go in your shift working life. You set yourself up really well so that when that night shift comes you can go.

Speaker 1: 39:38

Let's go absolutely I feel like I've got all the tools and, yeah, the experience now, or at least going through it, and it kind of excites me for doing it again to know that it wasn't a fluke, it definitely wasn't a fluke.

Speaker 2: 39:50

I love this and that's the key to go through it again and consolidate it. You've now got another string in your bow that you can literally coach from from experience as well. Tam, thank you. Is there anything that we've not discussed that you would like to mention at all?

Speaker 1: 40:08

not too much. Besides, thank you for, I guess, taking me under your wing and sharing your experience and your expertise in this field, because I feel like we need more people like you to help us shift workers, and it's just changed everything for me. So really just thankful that we got to have that chat and that you were happy to help me, and I'm so glad that I actually listened, because past Tam would have gone nah, stuff that I'm not doing that, and I think you could sense a little bit of resistance with some of the things you mentioned. But I said to myself, tam, you've just got to do it, just do it. What have I got to lose? So I'm just really grateful that you allowed me this opportunity and that I actually just listened and did it.

Speaker 2: 40:54

Oh, I love that Fantastic. Thank you so much. They're kind words and they do really mean an awful lot to me, because I try very hard in this space. When I see a shift worker that is coaching others, I just want to do what I can to help them so that they can be like a disciple going out there and helping other people as well. So your clients are going to really benefit from even the knowledge out of what you've done, because night shift is the bugbear of everybody. Whether you're a nurse, water fairy or a paramedic or what you are. Night shift is the bugbear of them all, and I think having a protocol and a way to go are night shift is the bug bed of them all, and I think having a protocol and a way to go through night shift they're gonna have to find out with through coaching, aren't they? So do you have anything exciting coming up tam?

Speaker 1: 41:39

no, I don't. I've got a week of work and then I think I'm on leave for three weeks. I've got a couple of unwell fur babies, so I'll be stuck at home, so I'll be dedicating time to gym, my laptop, all the good things.

Speaker 2: 41:53

Yep, as you do, and helping other people, helping other clients, tam, thank you so much. Now I've won a billion dollars. I've won heaps and heaps of money. I don't tell many people about this, but for being a guest on the podcast, I'm going to either build or buy you a holiday house anywhere in the world. Now you have to live in it for six months. Because I found that, with a lot of the people that I asked this question of, they all turned around and said to me I live in Melbourne because I love Melbourne. And I said, no, no, you got to go and live in it for six months. So now you can take your partner or you can take your fur babies. You can do whatever you want. Because you've got whatever, I'm going to make it. So where am I building it?

Speaker 1: 42:33

Without a doubt, canggu in Bali. I'd live there if I could. I could go tomorrow. So I'm hoping to head back, hopefully later this year, for a few weeks. So if you want to build it for them, I'd be more than happy to go. We'll give it a crack, we.

Speaker 2: 42:48

So if you want to build it, for them, I'd be more than happy to go. We'll give it a crack. We'll give it a crack. Canggu, it's a health capital, isn't it? It's a great place for people to go and eat well, train well and just live a fantastic, really holistic life, isn't it? In Canggu, in Bali. So that's fantastic, Tam. Thank you so much. I really appreciate you and I do appreciate you coming on the podcast to share the story of our journey, with what we've done, to how I've been able to help you so that you can help others. So well done, Thank you.

Speaker 1: 43:16

Thank you, thanks so much for having me.

Speaker 2: 43:18

And there you go. That's Tam Epstein. Great story, isn't it? I know it's me pumping up my tires a little bit and it's a great testimony for me. But, as I said and I know I went over it a number of times the great thing about that is that Tam will coach other people now with that new protocol that she's learned around coping with shift work. And Tam was a really, really good test case for me as I coach myself, and I said it to her to her face. I felt she was a bit of a hard head and probably wouldn't change anything that she does because what she was doing was working. But once I flagged with her, it's not really working, and then we looked at ways that we could make it work. And then she got off the call and you heard what she said to herself. You just got to do it, sam, and she did Fantastic. If you got anything out of that anything at all, don't hesitate. Please share it with your colleagues.

Speaker 2: 44:16

This is a really important podcast for what it was. This is about thriving through a night shift. All right, and that is the most difficult part of a shift worker's life. Is thriving through that night shift Really important? Also, if you are looking to learn how to go about doing night shifts, you can feel free to reach out to Tam or to reach out to myself.

Speaker 2: 44:43

If something that Tam said to you or said in the podcast resonates with you, by all means, her links are in the show notes. You can go in there, reach out. I'm sure she would be happy to communicate with you at all. And if you are looking for one-to-one coaching, by all means you can definitely reach out to me. I would be more than happy to entertain helping you to get through and thrive in your shift working life. Stop just surviving. I'll catch you on the next show. Thank you for listening. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe so you get notified whenever a new episode is released. It would also be ever so helpful if you could leave a rating and review on the app you're currently listening on. If you want to know more about me or work with me, you can go to ahealthyshiftcom. I'll catch you on the next one.