Youth Crime and Consequences

Speaker 1 0:03

So we don't really know what's going on .

Speaker 2 0:09

Roger Sutherland . Good morning to you . Morning , Tony . How are you this morning Now , you and I ?

Speaker 1 0:14

were talking during the news and after that conversation I feel a bit flat , I feel a bit dull , because we were talking about some of the issues to do with crime in our state but right across Australia . You could argue and I said to you what is the answer , what do you reckon might be the answer ? And I'm even now more perplexed than I was before I asked the question .

Speaker 2 0:41

Yeah , it's an interesting one because you've made me think as well . So I've always said there's got to be a consequence for an action , end of story . And I thought that was an interesting . I've always said that I think the solution to everything is a consequence . If you do the right thing , you get a reward , if you do the wrong thing , you get punished for it , and that's the solution .

Speaker 2 1:05

And then you said to me but we still have murders , we still have murders , so people know they're going to go to jail , but they still do it Now , when a youth is speeding along in a stolen car that they've just carjacked from someone and that's my point Are they thinking so they've stolen the car , they may have another one , they might have a friend or a colleague or an acquaintance in the car with them .

Speaker 1 1:26

Are they thinking I'm in a lot of trouble here if I get caught , I'm going to be in a lot of trouble , or are they just behaving really badly ?

Speaker 2 1:34

They're behaving really badly because I believe there's no consequence for that action .

Speaker 1 1:38

Well , there is . There's an offence that can go before the courts . Yeah , I know , but they know that ?

Speaker 2 1:47

No , as an offence , it can go before the courts . Yeah , I know , but they know that . Is that not sufficient ? No , I don't think there is an offence , but they know that it's not going to be executed to the full level of the law . And I think this is definitely the problem today , without any doubt . And what we have is we have youths today that are just stealing cars and just walking into people's houses , helping themselves to whatever , because there's no consequence for it in any way whatsoever . There needs to be a consequence , because something's got to be in the back of their mind that they're going to get severely punished for it . Otherwise it's pointless .

Speaker 1 2:16

So what about a 15 , 16-year-old ? I'll jump in if I may . A 15 or 16-year-old who's clearly doing the wrong thing . What's going on in their mind and how did they get there ? In your experience ? How did they get to that point ? Is that because mum and dad no longer give tinkers ? No , no . Is that because they've been surrounded , they've got bad ? Are they drug-induced at that point of their lives , at 14 , 15 , 16 , 17 ? Is it because of social media that's driving and encouraging this sort of activity .

Speaker 2 2:46

I think it's a little bit of column A , b , c , d , e and E in that I think one of the biggest problems that we definitely have . I think we blame parents , like a lot of people . When we see these youth crime today , people say where are the parents ? Well , the parents have got to the stage where there's nothing more that they can do . Like I know from knocking on doors with the parents they just go . We've tried everything . Like we have literally tried everything that we can do .

Speaker 2 3:13

Now I don't know , I'm not a behavioural specialist , but I'd imagine , if you go back to what was ticking in their brain before they turned eight , because I think a lot of our thought processes have formed by the time we're eight years of age , so maybe there is something going on there . But I know a lot of kids that have come from very , very good families and some kids have gone really well , whereas one of the child there's a black sheep in the family that's completely fallen off the rails . Why ? And I would have to say it's environmental . It's not genetic , it's environmental . So it's going to be the influences that they've got Of associates yeah , of associates . They just see it as an adrenaline we're always chasing .

Speaker 2 3:57

Today , if you think about it , today we are continually chasing a dopamine hit . Our mobile phone is the classic dopamine hitter , like you know . If it goes , ding it just . It excites you Like my God . I've got to look at my phone to see who messaged me . What is going on ? What have I missed ? We're opening our phone , we're checking email Fear of missing out .

Speaker 2 4:18

We've got this fear of missing out on everything because we're looking for this dopamine hit all the time , all the time . So is it any wonder and don't get me wrong , but is it any wonder that the youth of today are stealing high-powered vehicles and just driving like cut cats and riding motorbikes on freeways ?

Speaker 1 4:36

and things like that . Just even wind that back a bit though , rog . So you know you're 15 , 16 , 17 , 18 , or around you know . So you're under 21 , for example . And you think to yourself what we're going to do ? We're going to steal this brand new Audi from that driveway . Yep , we know how to do it . Yep , we've got a sense of what the repercussions may or may not be . But bugger it , we're going to do it anyway . Yeah , because we won't get caught . They're thinking they won't get caught . No , that's right , we won't get caught , but they most often get caught .

Speaker 2 5:05

Oh , they do as a general rule . Majority of the times they get caught and then they're put in front of the courts .

Speaker 1 5:11

Yep , eventually Yep .

Speaker 2 5:16

If they're not released between then and . But even then they eventually end up in the court somewhere at some stage , even if they don't appear the first time , the second time , third time , but they do eventually end up before the courts , and therein lies the problem . This is where people have got to stop blaming the police . It's not the police's fault .

Speaker 1 5:33

We'll take some calls . We'd love to get your feedback on it as to why you think we're seeing this escalation over the last few years . I reckon I'm going to say post-COVID would be my assertion , but I have no evidence that it's necessarily the case . 133693 , what's your feeling ? Why do you think some of these things , this so-called youth crime , seems to be getting the uptick . What's driving it ? What are we doing wrong ? Is the punishment not necessarily severe ? We make the point that probably the world of social media plays a big role in that , and even right down to , as you say , the urgency of sitting around on a mobile phone .

Night Shift Dispatchers and Home Invasions

Speaker 1 6:15

Nice to have your company wherever you are right across Australia . Tony Mack in the chair , we're here at 5AA in Adelaide , the Ace Radio Network 3AW here in . Melbourne , of course . Nearly said it again 5AA , 6pr in Perth , nicole . Nicole , I think you've met before in the past .

Speaker 3 6:35

Nicole's at Whittlesea Hello .

Speaker 2 6:38

Hello , how are you going ?

Speaker 3 6:40

Hello Nicole , how are you Good ? All right , I work at Triple Zero , so you might be familiar .

Speaker 2 6:46

Very familiar . Well done , I was told that you might ring up tonight and you've actually been good to your word . How was your night ?

Speaker 3 6:52

I did , yeah , busy , very , very busy .

Speaker 1 6:57

I know Now , nicole , just so people are clear . So Triple Zero is clearly what it is , but what's your role there ? What historically was your role and what were the issues that you encountered ? What was the feeling about the work and the people with whom you were dealing over many years ?

Speaker 3 7:14

I'm a police dispatcher so I work very closely with them , and my husband's also a police officer , so yeah , very familiar with the line of work .

Speaker 2 7:26

Yeah . So just to explain Nicole tells the cops where to go , tony . Excellent . So that's her job . She tells the cops where to go . So what she actually does is a call taker . When you call triple zero Telstra , answer the telephone and they will send you through to police , fire or to ambulance . And then what happens is you would come , if you say police , you would come into the room where Nicole works . A call taker would take the call and take all the details and then send it to Nicole and she would dispatch it to the police and tell the police where to go , so to speak . That's about right , isn't it Nicole ? Yeah , that's correct , very good . And so you said you had a busy night . Have you just finished , have you ?

Speaker 3 8:11

Yeah , I'm doing my new hours of Tootle Midnight Wednesday and Thursday and I was like oh great , I can listen to your show .

Speaker 2 8:18

Wonderful , now Tootle Midnight . How does that suit you other than the normal rotations of the two days ?

Speaker 1 8:25

on two nights .

Speaker 2 8:28

Do you find it better ?

Speaker 3 9:23

I've got to get up at six with the kids , so not fantastic , but we have to work with what we have .

Speaker 2 9:30

Now , is this the reason why you worked that shift ?

Speaker 3 9:35

I couldn't get the hours that I needed due to not needing staff earlier . So I took what I could for shifts in off the east and for the budget .

Speaker 2 9:45

Yeah , and I think .

Speaker 3 9:46

And the organisation needs an attitude .

Speaker 2 9:50

And Tony . I think this is what a lot of people that work the night shift actually do , or work this shift from 2pm to midnight because their husbands can work and be home with the children . They can actually be there , and this is very , very common in our shift working world as well , that one's working one shift job , one's working another one , or the ladies are out working at night while the husbands are home , so it just keeps that income coming in . It's a good income , isn't it ? Nicole ?

Speaker 3 10:20

at night . Yeah , it's not too , bad , definitely good bank for us , isn't it ?

Speaker 1 10:25

Good bank for you . Yeah , excellent , nicole . Thank you for being part of it and calling in and being part of the program this morning with yourself and Roger , and great to have you there , chris , in Perth morning to you G'day , tony and Roger , was it ? That's the one .

Speaker 6 10:41

G'day Roger . Yeah , good morning Chris , g'day Roger . Look , it's bloody hot . It's still hot here , but we've got .

Speaker 5 10:46

Yeah , it is , I said that to .

Speaker 2 10:48

Tony earlier on .

Speaker 1 10:54

Was it in Perth ?

Speaker 2 10:55

It's very veryton , no , it was 48 and a half , Was it ? Yeah , it was nearly 49 degrees and I was thinking to myself I don't even spend my infrared sauna on for that , Chris .

Speaker 1 11:04

what's happening in your world ? What did you want to talk about ?

Speaker 6 11:06

Actually north of Geraldton it was 50 , but it wasn't that hot here . But we've got a sea breeze in , so everything's okay . But look what I was saying . I mean you guys probably don't get much West Australian news over your side .

Speaker 1 11:21

Yeah , we do A lot of it . We do , chris , we read a lot of it , so what the point is ?

Speaker 6 11:26

Well today and I can actually talk about this now because the court case is over and done with and justice has been sort of handed down , has been sort of handed down . But look , there was a case a couple of years ago about early last year or late 2023 , of a home invasion in Boulder involving a balaclavid man with a machete in Boulder with , you know , karguli , which they're basically .

Speaker 1 11:59

So , Chris , I ask you to get to the point . I don't need all the details because I need to .

Speaker 6 12:03

Well , no , there was a home invasion where a bloke was defending his family and he strangled this bloke .

Speaker 1 12:11

Okay , so , Chris , I just want to caution you . I'm not too sure you say it's been before the courts . I just want to be careful . So what's the question you need to ask ?

Speaker 6 12:21

Well , what I'm saying is he was found not guilty today of basically manslaughter for killing this bloke .

Speaker 4 12:31

Okay .

Speaker 6 12:32

And the thing is he was protecting his family and it was just cause the guy was armed with a machete home invasion . The fact is , this family has had to leave their homes . They've had to leave their home . They've had to leave their place that they've lived in for a long time . They've had to leave the town because of retribution by local people that want justice . And if you saw the photographs today on the news or film of their house , it is covered in black handprints and they've been driven out . And he has been found not guilty and he was defending his home and his family and that to me me is a sign that something is seriously breaking yeah , well , uh , the courts will handle that , but I think we get the point that , uh , that is making it seems , it seems odds with what people would expect .

Speaker 2 13:30

Now , this is an important conversation too , tony . I've got friends of mine that have had a home invasion and they've had to sell their house and move because they just can't be in the house anymore . And this is what we forget is the impact . Now , I know this is that's not quite what Chris was talking about here , but we are in a position now what we're losing sight of is that it's terrorism to people's houses .

Speaker 1 13:57

It's an awful feeling . Anybody listening right now that's had their house invaded , or you wake up in the middle of the night with people in your house , balaclavas armed .

Speaker 2 14:07

That's it . You're gone , and I know people that can't live on ground floors of houses anymore they're in units or apartments because they feel safer or people that have had to move . The impact of this sort of crime is horrendous and this is what's got to be . It's not good enough to say the police will catch them , they'll go to jail .

Speaker 1 14:27

I know when I went and did some years ago now went and worked in far north Queensland for 12 months and I spoke to the local officers there who were sort of doing some work in the media and I said what do you think ? And they said get up as high as you can in that building . Yeah , that's right , because they'll scoot up the side of the building to get in yeah , yeah , which I found staggering .

Speaker 1 14:48

Oh , it did turn out to be absolutely correct . Roger Sutherland is here for Macomb . He'd been there for about 40 years or so retired . What ? For about 40 years or so retired ? What was the last year ? Last year , in ? August After all those years Australia Day should be changed to Convict Day . No , I don't necessarily think that would be the case . Another one says I think youth crime Tony make up because during things like lockdowns youth couldn't go and see their mates , which led to a certain boredom .

Speaker 2 15:16

I disagree with that .

Speaker 1 15:18

I'll tell you what used to happen . We all went through that .

Speaker 2 15:20

When the lockdowns , particularly when they had the curfews in place , it was like shooting fish in a barrel .

Speaker 1 15:25

Yeah , of course .

Speaker 2 15:26

It was so easy . I've got friends at the Polair and they said it was like shooting fish in a barrel .

Speaker 1 15:31

The only things that were moving were the crooks . Of course they did not care . Yeah , of course . Let's take some of these calls Our great friend Christian , on the road , nice , to hear your voice , good morning .

Speaker 9 15:43

How are you boys ? We're well .

Speaker 1 15:45

What's happening in your world .

Speaker 9 15:48

Just these turds that are doing these things at night time . All these kids that disrespect everything . I think it starts at school . I think teachers , they need to be called Mr and Mrs , not by their first names . There's no respect . It starts at a young age . The respect is gone .

Speaker 2 16:08

I agree totally .

Speaker 9 16:09

There's no respect for authority whatsoever .

Speaker 4 16:12

Yeah , I agree , and we're only to blame .

Speaker 9 16:13

Us humans are to blame .

Speaker 2 16:16

Yeah , we said it , christian , you're on the road all the time , or you were , you used to be on the road all the time . Tell me how often do you see cars go absolutely blasting past you with young fellas in it that it's clearly stolen .

Speaker 9 16:31

Yeah , all the time .

Speaker 2 16:32

Yeah , it's so common All the time .

Speaker 9 16:35

You know , it's not 110 , 120 , 130 . No , no , it's 180 , 200 k's , that's right , and the truck shakes when they go past Yep .

Speaker 2 16:46

And this is the point that I wanted to make that you're out there in a truck , just minding your own business , driving along , and then you get this youth that goes blasting past you and , as you said , it's not someone doing 110 .

Speaker 1 16:58

It's the speed that they're actually doing , just it's crazy and do you assume that's a motorbike as well ?

Speaker 9 17:09

Christian . Apart from that , everything else like okay in your world , yeah , everything's all good .

Speaker 1 17:12

Are the kids mate ?

Speaker 9 17:13

No , yeah , kids , kids are kids . You know how they are mate .

Speaker 2 17:17

Certainly do . That's why you're working . Yeah , thank you .

Speaker 9 17:20

I've got six of them , so yeah , I know . Bring on school . Bring on school . It's next Thursday , that's right , bring it on Back to school .

Speaker 1 17:28

Thank you very much . Good on you . Bye . The two motorbikes raced past this morning , yesterday morning , driving back up the Monash , and you get in , you go whoa , you're sitting there at 100 , and then you can hear them coming from about some time back , zinging past , probably at about 150 or 160 at least . Yep , do you just assume they've stolen those vehicles ? No , no motorbikes .

Speaker 2 17:51

I just know that no one's going to do anything about them . Have you noticed ? This is another point I want to make , and Christian's gone now , but a point that I wanted to make . If you went back 20 years ago , you would see cops on the road everywhere . Now you don't . How often do you driving to get home and back again ? How often do you see the police on the

Policing, Gender Bias, and Shift Work

Speaker 2 18:11

road ? Now , rarely , you went for a drive . You told me you went for a drive up the valley , through the Yarra Valley . I remember the highway patrol used to sit on the side of those roads all the time . In fairness , saw a couple Did you Saw a couple ?

Speaker 1 18:24

Okay yeah , certainly one car that was static and you could tell from another . On a round trip coming back in towards Melbourne , there was a couple of speed cameras in vans sitting in vans . Oh yeah , so you could spot that .

Speaker 2 18:41

But that's different to what you would see that's totally different . No , I'm talking about marked police vehicles that are in a proactive role . I know we go backwards and forwards to see more or a lot driving up and down the highway . Never , ever see a police car on the Hume Highway .

Speaker 1 18:59

Now the Hume Highway . Now the Hume Highway used to be notorious for speed traps .

Speaker 7 19:01

Yeah , it was Sandra Swanhill . Hello , good morning . Firstly , our police are always out , always Awesome , yeah . And they're so lovely , they really are lovely . But my question is these repeat offenders why don't they put an ankle bracelet on them ? Because if they walk down the street people would look at them . They would be for the one of the word marked . Why don't ? It's not the police , it's the damn magistrates .

Speaker 2 19:34

You get a vote from me exactly on that point . You get a vote from me exactly on that point . And the magistrates can also only work to the legislation that they're given by the parliamentarians .

Speaker 1 19:44

So I keep saying it's not the , it is the parliamentarians , it's the pollies , it's the pollies . That's where the problem lies . Good on you , sandra Mel's in Geelong . Hello to you , hi guys , how are you ? Well , thank you you .

Speaker 11 19:59

Hi guys , how are you Well ? Thank you , my husband was a ex-police senior sergeant . Yes , he's been ill health retired .

Speaker 2 20:06

Yes .

Speaker 11 20:07

But there's a lot of in-house dirty laundry that goes on . Women are promoted above the men . They sell their souls , they do everything , they sacrifice their families . They have the highest rate of divorce in Victoria because they sell their souls to Victoria Police , because they're told and promised promotions but don't get them . But the women that are not qualified to get these positions get it above them because there's the 50-50 equality and it's just disgraceful . It nearly cost us our marriage . Because he sacrificed . He did .14 weekends in a row , which is when I had my time off and the one time he demanded a weekend off to spend with me and his family . He got reprimanded because he demanded a weekend off .

Speaker 2 21:22

Unfortunately it's common . Yep , it is . Yeah , you're preaching to the converted here . One day I'll open up and talk about that , but it is incestuous .

Speaker 11 21:35

And that's what I'm saying . That's why blokes go off with ill health because , they can't cope with it .

Speaker 11 21:42

They can't cope these women . And I have a friend whose partner was a teacher at deacon , who had every like the luxuries of a lecturer , weekends off . She demanded she could only work certain hours and she got given those certain hours and my husband had to work the night shifts , the afternoon shifts , everything . I'm all for equality , I'm a woman myself . But it has to be pulled into line . If Victoria Police are serious about keeping and doing , then women can't demand that they just do school hours . It's not appropriate . The men are at the detriment and they're sacrificing their families so the women can be at home with their husband and their children and that's what they expect .

Speaker 2 22:54

Mel , I can . And that is , how hard is it for you , as the wife of a senior sergeant , to watch your husband going through that and to feel so helpless that there's nothing that you can do , but you can't believe what's actually happening .

Speaker 11 23:14

I seriously just want to break down in tears because it breaks the family unit . Why do the men have to lose their families for the women to have everything ? You want equal rights ? Well , then you do equal shifts , babe . You don't Make the man sacrifice their family and their kids and not be at home for them , for you to have it all . It's not right . You want equal rights ? Then you do equal shifts , babe .

Speaker 1 23:54

Mel , I can understand how distressing this is , and people will get it too , I think , how intrinsically unfair it sometimes shows up as being . Could you see any light at the end of , or is it just to be to the point where you and your partner have to accept it as it is ?

Speaker 11 24:16

He's been ill the whole time . Because he couldn't cope anymore , he was done in Ildehalla , retired because he couldn't cope anymore , he was done and with everything he'd seen and done over 36 years on the front line . The Victoria Police never backed them .

Speaker 1 24:34

We might have to just dump that one , if we can . Did we get that one , jay ? Only because Mel is kind of you but we just can't put that sort of language to it . But you can understand the frustration which you would understand .

Speaker 2 24:48

I'm exactly the same . It actually chokes me and makes me feel because I'm the same . I'm exactly the same Because , unfortunately , what Mel is saying is 100% correct is 100% correct and it makes it extremely difficult , because what makes that person's life and family life more important than yours ? Everyone's got a life .

Speaker 1 25:16

We'll get back to calls in just a moment . I'm Tony McManus , roger Sutherland from a healthy shift veteran law enforcement officer as well . We haven't talked too much about shift work . At the moment Some more interesting calls coming through . We'll get to them in a tick . Some of the texts too fascinating , from Rob , who says boys , often there's an alpha , a leader you know when you're talking about groups and gangs , and things .

Speaker 1 25:39

You take away their power by reducing their followers . Work out who their followers are and then warn their parents about the behaviour where the consequences might be , to deter them from participating in groups and crimes in the future . Can it be that simple ?

Speaker 2 25:54

No , it's not that simple , because the parents have got no . If they are the alpha , then the parents have got no control . However , I do believe cutting the head off as in not literally , but I mean cutting the head of the group off the alpha .

Speaker 1 26:08

Youth criminals to grow veggies in prison .

Speaker 2 26:11

Yeah , that's a no , but let's send them to Christmas Island . I think that's a great idea . See you later .

Speaker 1 26:16

Lockdowns . The other one , G'day Tony Reid on air . Organised crime had recruited these kids to steal things like cars and others and to break in certain areas

Police Force Challenges and Solutions

Speaker 1 26:24

and then strip to be sold on places like eBay . So true , there are so many elements to all of this .

Speaker 2 26:33

Organised crime and .

Speaker 1 26:34

I think it's worthwhile having the conversation and get the feedback from what people across Australia are thinking about this . Everybody would have a view , Max . Good morning .

Speaker 5 26:43

Oh , good day . Tony Hi , maxie Hi .

Speaker 9 26:50

Tony , that lady was a very moving conversation . What she was talking about , yeah .

Speaker 4 26:56

The reason I actually believe it's not the other colleagues that are the problem .

Speaker 9 27:02

It's the management in the hospitals , the police and all that .

Speaker 4 27:05

They're getting their staff to work double shifts and it's looked down as a weakness if you don't work a double shift .

Speaker 2 27:12

Spot on , that's such a great call .

Speaker 12 27:16

Even the nurses and doctors have to do double shifts if they don't do it . It's called a weakness .

Speaker 2 27:22

Yeah , I totally agree . I totally agree with you there , max , you are absolutely spot on . Nurses are brutalised by having to do double shifts and they're made to feel guilty for letting the team down if they're not actually turning up to do extra shifts . It's not enough for them to do just their own shifts . They're expected to do extra shifts . It's not enough for them to do just their own shifts .

Speaker 1 27:43

They're expected to do extra ? Is that because of a cost or we don't have sufficient people available for those roles ? Yep Insufficient staff . Insufficient staff .

Speaker 2 27:53

It all comes down to insufficient staff .

Speaker 1 27:55

Which you would say for law enforcement right across Australia .

Speaker 2 27:58

Law enforcement worldwide , worldwide , not just Australia , it's a worldwide problem 38 years .

Speaker 1 28:05

Just put that one up for me , mate , tony . The security always work with Vicpol in particular , closely catching crooks . While Vicpol continues to fight state government with pay rise , which sure is needed , police are leaving . Oh well , I think that's right . They go through all the paperwork for hours only have the court system give the lowest or no conviction . Common law has not changed , but the interpretation by the courts has changed . Summary offence has been changed by governments to allow the law , which can be a joke . That's from .

Speaker 5 28:33

Shane Spot on . Shane Spot on .

Speaker 1 28:35

How do we change ? How do we have politicians with the proverbial knackers to actually change those laws ? Have politicians with the proverbial knackers to actually change those laws .

Speaker 2 28:43

Well , that's the point . We've got to be talking to people . People have got to be instead of taking it out on the police and the courts , people have got to be campaigning at their local police office and really pushing it hard . That's what they've got to be doing .

Speaker 1 28:58

In Somerville , Hi Pete .

Speaker 5 29:00

Oh , hello . Yes , I'd like to make a point regarding the police again , please . They can no longer patrol singly and they always have to have a partner , correct , so that's , cut the patrols down by , I would suggest , 50% .

Speaker 2 29:17

Yeah , I agree , and that is a massive problem for the highway patrol in particular that they're having to work two up instead of putting singular cars out .

Speaker 5 29:27

Yeah , and look , I'd like to make another point if I could . Yes , if you do a web search BBC crime rate and leaded petrol , you'll get a great article and you'll see that the use of leaded petrol and the crime rate changed with about a 26-year shift . And I wonder if one of the things that we're seeing with these young people being so undisciplined is what was it ? 1985 , they stopped corporal punishment . So for millennia , for millennia , corporal punishment has been used . Yep , so I would suggest removal of corporal punishment is an experiment .

Speaker 2 30:15

It didn't work .

Speaker 5 30:17

It may not be working , because now you've got generations that have not had corporal punishment . And another interesting comment is that the teachers are having trouble with the parents' discipline .

Speaker 2 30:30

Yeah , there it is . That's another problem .

Speaker 5 30:35

So you should list all these things , because it would be a fascinating list to end up on your desk . Yeah , I agree , it's a great call .

Speaker 1 30:45

So , just before we let you go , Pete in all of that , what would you imagine might be some sort of answer , some sort of solution ?

Speaker 5 30:56

Oh , goodness me , there's so many factors , so many factors . Yeah , it's way too many . Someone needs to start knocking one factor off at a time . Yep .

Speaker 1 31:08

Yeah , we've got to reinvent it in many , many ways , perhaps . Good on you , peter . Thank you In Warrnambool . Hello David , thank you for joining us .

Speaker 4 31:16

Yes , good morning . I just wanted to say the situation is my future son-in-law . He's been a policeman in Turkey for eight years . He's been a soldier over there . He's six foot three , he's 20 stone , he's built like Arnold Schwarzenegger and he's 28 years old and he can't get in a police force here . He's qualified for Brisbane . There's a waiting list up there and he's pulling his hair out that he can't be a policeman in Victoria . It doesn't seem right to me . You know , he's got all the qualifications . His father's been a policeman for 35 years , oh yeah , and he can't get a look in .

Speaker 2 31:56

That sounds very true . There would obviously be something in the background there . Obviously , I'm not qualified to speak on that . No . But there would be some reason somehow .

Speaker 1 32:06

I don't know , it wouldn't be well , there is . So there's a whole lot of rules and regulations for various forces right throughout Australia , presumably .

Speaker 2 32:14

Yeah , absolutely , there is . Yeah , totally . Do you say he's been accepted for Queensland ? Yes , and he's just on a waiting list up there . That's it . Yeah , I know there's a lot of Victorian police on the waiting list for Queensland as well . I can assure you of that .

Speaker 1 32:30

More the other side . Come and join us . 133693 . You can send a text as well . We'll get to them . We love the texts and there are many coming through . We'll read some of them and then talk about it just after the break . 0-4-7-7-6-9-3-6-9-3 . This is Australia Overnight with Tony McManus . Can anybody just remind me why the holiday the 27th is a holiday ?

Speaker 2 32:57

Well , it fell on a weekend . Because it fell on a weekend , they give you the public holiday on the Monday . They do this with Christmas and Boxing Day , really , yeah , well , if Christmas Day falls on a Saturday and Boxing Day falls on a Sunday , you get the Monday and Tuesday as the public holidays .

Speaker 1 33:17

How are we going , do you think , as a nation ? Exactly right , let's have a look at it . Some of these texts if you've just joined us , nice to have your company . Roger Sutherland is here , I'm Tony McManus . Roger is a vet

Respect, Discipline, and Law Enforcement

Speaker 1 33:31

law enforcement officer , was in the biz for about 40 years . These days talks about the conditions and what it's like working as a shift worker , which brings on a whole lot of challenges . Just in itself quite often , doesn't it ?

Speaker 2 33:45

Very much so .

Speaker 1 33:47

And I guess this is all related to your time as a serving police officer .

Speaker 2 33:51

Yeah , absolutely 133693, .

Speaker 1 33:54

if you'd like to join us you'll get on board . The question that we asked earlier in the last hour we've had some great feedback on it , Given the seriousness of crime , not just in Victoria but right across Australia , certainly in WA , the same different levels of course . Certainly in South Australia , issues with young people essentially doing things that perhaps wasn't quite as prolific , Presumably the stats base backed , you know , backed that up a bit , or the perception thereof . The perception becomes a reality for many , and certainly here in Victoria . 1336693 . A couple of texts before we get back to these calls , a couple of quick texts . G'day , Tony Mack . Our country towns that were once 24-hour stations have now been down to one-person watch house and transferred to stations maybe 70k away . That's from Shane . It's not a bad point .

Speaker 2 34:51

It's a very , very common problem now that a lot of the old 24 stations are gone . It comes down to the numbers . Victoria Police are over 1,000 positions down , 1,000 positions unfilled . Now , when you've got 18,000 members , that's a lot . That's a lot of people out .

Speaker 1 35:11

So , presumably like any board or executive in law enforcement , they've got a budget of whatever it is , but let's say it's $50 million . You haven't got any more than that $50 to spend , and so you're looking at reduction , reduction , reduction , reduction in different forms .

Speaker 2 35:29

I understand that , but the other thing I mean I could go on a massive rant here . I won't . But there's 1,000 wages , that they're not paying for unfilled positions at the moment ? Yeah , so that money sits in the pot , because if they're not paying for unfilled positions at the moment , yeah , so that money sits in the pot , because if they're , off on work cover , which is 800 members off on work cover as well , right ? So if there's 800 , if these figures are correct , that are reported .

Speaker 1 35:52

This is for Victoria . We're talking about .

Speaker 2 35:53

For Victoria alone , 800 members off on work cover . Now that's not being paid for the government . I don't know what the work cover bill would be for Victoria Police , but I'd imagine it would be exorbitant . But the wages have got to be . The wages are paid by the insurer , so they're not being paid by the department . So are they saving on that ? I don't know . It's way above my pay grade . Come and join us 133693 .

Speaker 1 36:21

For Perth listeners , you can jump on board as well . 133882 , which is just your normal talkback number . Tony Mac , you were correct about the government laws , Not so much judges and the magistrates that are just following their job doing the best to their ability . Constant bail for young offenders Current Allen government usually actually reverse previous bail laws , causing all of this , Mick . Thank you , Mick . Yeah , A couple of quick calls here , let's go . Sean is in Perth . Hello Sean .

Speaker 8 36:49

Yeah , g'day fellas . Yeah , just look , with the sort of the younger offenders and all that sort of stuff that's going on . Look , let's face it , it's going to take a seismic shift to sort of get things fixed . But one thing I would say and just give me a little bit of rope on this one is as far as giving kids the cane at school , my wife is a qualified teacher . She's from Thailand . She was a teacher for 15 years . She was a math teacher and then she became the disciplinary officer .

Speaker 8 37:16

Now , just to give you a very quick story on that , the disciplinary officer has got nothing to do with the teaching of the class . That is all the role of the disciplining officer . That's what she does . So little Johnny does something wrong , the teacher , and emotion's not in it because the teacher goes right . You've got to go to my wife as a disciplining officer . They've got clear legislation there .

Speaker 8 37:36

So she looks up in her legislation . She's got to write a little mini case on little johnny has done this , this and this . Um , he deserves two hits with the cane , and that's by legislation . That's law . She then needs to give it to the principal . The principal then needs to also review it , endorse it . Um , no , actually , little johnny , actually it's probably not two , it should only be one . Okay , that's fine . Again , this is all law and legislation .

Speaker 8 38:02

The final one , even if that's all being ticked off , it still has to go to the parent . So then my wife would then have to call the parent and say , look , little Johnny has done this . It deserves one hit . Do you agree , yes or no ? So there's clear steps in place . It's clear legislation . There is zero motion . Now , look , I know all the people out there or a lot of people are going to say no , can't do that . We had it back in the day . My mum says the same . There's a lot of merits to it , and I'll tell you what . When I was over in Thailand because I was a teacher briefly for a while I was there as well . The kids are a hell of a lot more , can always learn from other countries , and what they're doing is fantastic and what we do is terrible .

Speaker 2 38:46

Consequence I say this all the time consequence and , as Sean has said , in Thailand the kids are highly respectful . Where does that come from ?

Speaker 1 38:58

Well , can I just I don't know whether Sean's still there , sean , what would you put that down to ? Why is that culture different in terms of those students in Thailand ? What's the gap between them and what many seem to be experiencing here in Australia ?

Speaker 8 39:11

I would say so . I was a teacher there only for six months , but even when I was at the shops and doing stuff , I would say the kids there as a whole . If I had to rate them out of 10 for respect , I'd say they're like an eight or a nine . I'd say the kids in Australia are about a two or a three . But then it's not only what happens in school . Just , you know that instills , you know , like the family values it instills so much , like it just it's just it spreads across the community . And again , look , the family needs to do it as well and some of it comes from the family . But having that backbone of support and consequences and all that framework in a school environment , look , it just spreads . And , like I said , you can see it in Thailand . I can't speak for other countries . There's got to be others out there that do it . But you look at ours and ours is terrible and that's the thing . And yeah , yeah .

Speaker 1 40:02

Sure , what a great call Thank you for being part of it . It makes a lot of sense , doesn't it ?

Speaker 2 40:07

It does it absolutely does , and you know what's really good about Sean's call . There's a structure in place and everybody knows the structure Right , I think that's the thing . There's a process that if this happens , this is the process . Nothing's windy at all , it's just a process and we follow the process . Leanne good morning .

Speaker 10 40:32

Good morning Tony , good morning Roger and Jay , morning Leanne . Can I point a couple of points ? Another thing too I've noticed when these kids commit crimes is do the parents say sorry for what their child's done ?

Speaker 2 40:52

Parents are very apologetic . They're embarrassed . The parents are embarrassed . This is what I really want people to understand . In a lot of situations , the parents have got no control over the kids at all . They try , they do everything that they can . When you turn up with little Johnny by the ear at the house , the parents are just highly embarrassed and apologetic oh dear , Okay . In many cases I'm not saying all , but in many . Oh dear , Okay . In many cases I'm not saying all , but in many .

Speaker 10 41:25

Oh , no , I'm just curious because you don't hear of it often . No , and another thing too do I need legal representation to apply for ? Well , not apply . But if I apply for a BSIO , well , not apply . But if I apply for a PSIO Personal Safety Intervention Order do I need to have a representative at the court ? If that goes through .

Speaker 2 41:51

Go and have a chat with the clerk of courts at your local court . Have a chat with the clerk of courts and they will guide you really well on that . So go and have a chat with them . So when I say the clerk of courts , the person that would answer the counter at the court there for you and they will guide you with what is up-to-date advice .

Speaker 1 42:10

Liam , thank you . I'm just going back to that question of respect respect for others , respect for other community members . I just wonder whether young people at what point do young people in that 14 , 15 , 16 , 17-year-old have a level of self-respect . Is it too glib to say that it would be apparent to many that maybe they don't have any depth of self-respect and that lack thereof self-respect allows them to behave differently ? You know , appallingly .

Speaker 2 42:44

It's an interesting question .

Speaker 1 42:45

I'm just putting it out there that we talk about respect for community that seems to go and then presumably have not sufficient levels of self-respect . Yeah , but who teaches them ?

Speaker 2 42:58

Well , we do .

Speaker 1 43:01

The culture , does you know , living here in Australia ? That should be the culture where we demand levels of respect for each other and a heightened self-respect . I agree totally , Because people that have self-respect for themselves are surely not going to go and burgle somebody else's house .

Speaker 2 43:16

No , I agree with that too .

Speaker 1 43:19

We'll do this when we come back . Your calls as well , for those that are waiting . Thank you , lots of texts coming in . We'll get to them in just a moment . One in particular , rob , says

Parental Accountability and Youth Crime

Speaker 1 43:27

G'day . Tony Mack , you always talk about the cost of imprisoning young offenders . But , thinking outside the square , how about we reverse that the family of the offender becomes accountable , maybe up to 50% of the cost ? Well , what if a family has no money , which is often how are they going to pay that ?

Speaker 1 43:47

to the tune of to put a young person in prison , well over $200,000 a year .

Speaker 2 43:54

So many good parents that are both working and working hard to provide for their children and the children . One of them is just completely off the rails . Off the rails .

Speaker 1 44:04

Jump on board . If you'd like to have your say , you're more than welcome . 1-double-3-6-9-3 . Perth for you 1-double-3-8-82 . And Adelaide , same number for everyone else 1-double-3-6-9-3 . Great text here from Tiger who says Tony Mack , the school differences I can vouch for , living and working in Japan for a long time , very deep respect , very deep respect , lived there for many years . The culture , so the culture of , say , a place like Japan , they've got their own issues , I have no doubt , but the levels of respect , according to the text , seem to be more highly regarded and more important to the culture .

Speaker 2 44:48

Yeah , very much so , and that would be ingrained from the parents in an early day as well . So if we've , okay , we had a bit of a chat off air before .

Speaker 1 44:58

They get very embarrassed . The Japanese culture they get very , very embarrassed .

Speaker 2 45:02

Terribly embarrassed , terribly embarrassed . So this is where we have our Japanese and we have our Asian communities , the Chinese and things like that . We don't see groups of Chinese going around doing aggravated , not common . It's not common to go around doing aggravated burglaries on houses , or , you know , it's not a group of Asian youths that have stolen cars and things like that . Now , I would stand corrected on that if I'm wrong , obviously , but that's your experience , that's my experience .

Speaker 1 45:30

That's your experience . However , there are probably elements that perhaps allegedly could be involved in other types of crime , but that's not what we're talking about .

Speaker 2 45:39

On this occasion . No , no , no . We're talking about youth crime here , and the youth crime is yeah , anyone .

Speaker 1 45:46

Port Melbourne . Hello Pete .

Speaker 9 45:49

Guys , good morning . How are you ? How can we help ?

Speaker 1 45:51

What did you want to say ?

Speaker 9 45:53

Just a quick remark to that guy who's comparing Australia to Thailand . I wouldn't compare Thailand to Australia for anything . If you see what happens in Thailand in those holiday places and the way that people live and why people go there for a fun time , I wouldn't compare that for anything . Just want to talk about Sorry .

Speaker 1 46:14

Pete just on that . It's a great point that you raised , but you're talking about some of the things that happen in holiday areas where young people Still in Thailand , but yes , but they're surviving on the trading of sex in those little communities .

Speaker 9 46:31

Yes . So when people compare the government to our government , you can't compare when the government turns a blind eye for that . That's a different story For the school caning . If I see a teacher put a finger on my son or my daughter , if they give them a bit of a lip , it would be hell to pay . My mum grew up in Macedonia . They respected the teachers because the teachers were highly educated , highly respected .

Speaker 9 47:00

My mum's a cleaner at a school , at a private school , and she goes every three months when they have a breakup there's bottles of alcohol , bottles of wine open half full , half empty , and the kids are still walking past those teachers' rooms when the teachers have packed up at one o'clock and the kids go home at two o'clock with early finishes and they're up drinking , early finishes and they're up drinking .

Speaker 9 47:24

In Eastern Europe you'll never see any drop of alcohol or anything like that . Teachers are highly regarded and highly respected here . Anyone can become a teacher , which is fair enough . But there still has to be some kind of respect for the fact that you're taking over that parent's child and you're looking after them , for him to teach them in the way of what they expect you to teach them . And if you think that you're going to raise your hand on Tony Asa's kid , would you raise your hand on your own kid , tony , you've got kids . You've got grandchildren . If someone wakes up one day angry from his family , comes to school and goes that kid's giving me a bit of lip and he comes and explains it to you , you have fire in your eyes .

Speaker 1 48:14

Yeah , true . But back in the day though , pete , there was a time when , certainly in the family , we copped a fair bit as kids from mum and dad . You knew exactly where you stood the wooden spoon , yeah , and that became ingrained . You knew by the time that you were six , seven or eight . That was not the way to behave . That was not the way to sit inside the family environment . You certainly knew the difference between right and wrong in a big way Very quickly .

Speaker 1 48:43

You make some great points , pete . Thank you for that . Hello Mel in Geelong . Oh , this is .

Speaker 11 48:48

Mel , this is Mel .

Speaker 1 48:49

You were brilliant .

Speaker 11 48:50

Sorry for my language earlier . I was a bit .

Speaker 1 48:54

Clearly you were upset and we get that , but we just can't let that go to air . But thank you for that .

Speaker 11 48:58

No no .

Speaker 1 48:59

You wanted to add something before we move on .

Speaker 11 49:01

Yeah , I just want to say , like you've raised the point of the amount of members that are off on ill health , yep , my husband retired last year on ill health and it was the biggest they've ever had in history and 90% of them were men . Yeah , and it gets to say my point . I'm a female , I get equal rights , whatever , but it's not fair that the men have to do all afternoon and night shifts and the women just get all day shifts to be at home with their kids .

Speaker 11 49:51

They know the job when they go in . So why are they given such privilege that the men have to sacrifice their family and their kids to fulfil the role ?

Speaker 2 50:07

I think that obviously would come down to upper management , and upper management have got to be able to deal with that . But I can hear your pain because I feel your pain as well for exactly the same reason .

Speaker 1 50:21

Were those elements in place back in your early days , 40 years ago ? No , there was a shift to that .

Speaker 2 50:28

There's been a massive shift to it . I started in 1984 and no way was it like that at all . Not a chance .

Speaker 1 50:37

In Perth . Hello Margaret .

Speaker 12 50:41

Hi Tony , how are you doing ?

Speaker 1 50:42

Well , say hello to Roger , Hi Margaret .

Speaker 12 50:44

Hi , Roger how are you ? Going Well . Say hello to Roger . Hi Margaret , hi Roger . I just want to put another spin on things . 25-plus years ago , because my son is now 38 , he was diagnosed in year three as being ADHD right , which in those days was pretty not done okay . So he had to have tablets and then he , I think , technically was classified as the bully in the class because the other kids would just call him a retard . So , he'd be teased .

Speaker 12 51:40

He would be teased , and I mean , you think about a kid of seven or eight , and they're called a retard . So what are they going to do ?

Speaker 1 51:52

Dreadful expression .

Speaker 12 51:54

Exactly they are going to beat up on the other kid . The school that he was at had a social worker Because they were there every fortnight . Every fortnight I could expect at work a phone call to say hello , margaret , it's so-and-so here . Luke's been in a fight .

Speaker 1 52:26

Challenges isn't there . Lots of challenges , Margaret . So where's that sitting now for the family and family members ? How are they travelling ?

Speaker 12 52:34

Well , the lad is now head chef .

Speaker 2 52:38

He's done well Good on him . He has done very well . So he's fought through it .

Speaker 12 52:44

He's fought through it and he's been tough , so he's fought through it , he's fought through it and he's been tough , he's fought through it , yep , but to be perfectly honest , I didn't and I was not . I feel very upset because I was not there for him , because he'd have a friend come over , because we have a pool and they'd be swimming in the pool and making you know yahoos and something would happen and the friend would say Mrs So-and-so , luke did this and I would take the other kid's side . But when I think about it now , I don't think it was his fault .

Speaker 1 53:30

Margaret , I encourage you not to blame yourself . You were doing what you thought at the time and you can never beat yourself up about that .

Speaker 12 53:39

Mark , I mean I love him and he's gorgeous . What ?

Speaker 1 53:44

a great call , but he I mean , I love him and he's gorgeous . Of course you do . Yeah , what a great call .

Speaker 12 53:47

Go on . Can I just say something else to you , please ,

Parental Engagement and Body Clocks

Speaker 12 53:56

one , I think it was your daughter who got married on the 3rd of September .

Speaker 1 54:00

Many years ago .

Speaker 12 54:02

Yes , that's my wedding anniversary .

Speaker 1 54:05

Oh , go on , Isn't that lovely . Congratulations .

Speaker 12 54:10

And I heard you because you were in Perth . Yes , and I heard you and I thought oh , my husband and I have now been married for 48 years .

Speaker 1 54:21

Oh , congratulations . And was Lionel York your celebrant ? No , no , no .

Speaker 12 54:29

We got married in the Catholic Church . Yeah , there you go .

Speaker 1 54:33

Good on you , mark . I'll let you go . We've got to move on , but it's a great call . Thank you , great to hear your voice on Australia Overnight . 133693 is the telephone number . Just see that text there . Listen to this one from Craig in South Geelong who says I teach a lot teaching in China , china , China . What does Donald Trump say ? China , china , china and respect shown to teachers is amazing . China , actually so much so have Teachers' Day to celebrate . Do they have to take an apple ? Maybe they do Teachers' Day in September . That's a great text .

Speaker 2 55:08

I love the top text here , tony . Maybe the parents are working hard to provide materialistic items instead of being parents providing time and care . Therefore , the kid is left to their own devices , resents or has no authority figure to monitor what they're doing , and bad influences become their family in the form of a gang . I reckon that's absolutely on the money . Were you ever in a gang ? No , no , neither was I . No , I wasn't . I never got invited to be in a gang . The thing is , though the pressures from kids now they've got to have the latest Jordans and they've got to have the PlayStation .

Speaker 1 55:41

But that was the same in our day . We had to have the same pair of Adidas Rome , or you had to have a pair of Levi Kords , or whatever . It was True , did you have ?

Speaker 2 55:48

Adidas Rome . Yeah , of course I had Adidas .

Speaker 1 55:50

Rome yeah .

Speaker 2 55:50

Everyone had Adidas Rome . Yeah , you did so .

Speaker 1 55:52

there was a bit of pressure in those days if you wanted to be in with the cool kids .

Speaker 2 56:07

Yeah , I think that's on the money , though , too , I think parents are so working that there's only one at home , or they're exhausted or there's no one home and the kids are latch door and key kids .

Speaker 1 56:13

Did you have a tam o' shanter ?

Speaker 2 56:16

A tam o' , what A tam o' shanter .

Speaker 1 56:19

Now let's say that you're in the witness box and I'm the prosecutor . You're in the witness box and I'm the prosecutor . You're in the witness box and I'm the prosecutor . If you've just joined us , it's Australia Overnight . I'm Tony McManus . Roger Sutherland is here from a healthy shift , which we'll talk about shift work in just a moment . Before we let you go , you're in the prosecution , you're in the box and I'm about to interview . Yep , I'm the informant . Now , sir , true or false ? Do you wear ?

Speaker 2 56:47

Lululemon I absolutely wear Lululemon Guilty .

Speaker 1 56:51

Guilty , so Josh so .

Speaker 2 56:56

All my active wear is Lululemon . What's ?

Speaker 1 56:58

the matter with that ? No well , I just I think it's funny that you said during the break I was out , but I had my Lululemon on the wrong way .

Speaker 2 57:05

Yeah , I wore my singlet inside out . I went out to the shop with my inside out singlet on .

Speaker 1 57:10

You said it was an inside out Lululemon singlet .

Speaker 2 57:13

Yeah , and I said it's Lulu , so it doesn't matter , because you can't tell so .

Speaker 1 57:17

Jay said excuse me , what's a Lululemon ? Yeah , so share with the audience .

Speaker 2 57:21

Lululemon's a brand of active wear . If I say it three times , do I get free stuff ?

Speaker 1 57:26

No , you don't .

Speaker 2 57:27

No no I won't .

Speaker 1 57:28

Those days are well and truly gone .

Speaker 2 57:30

Joe , can you get off the female page and get to the male page please ?

Speaker 1 57:33

Because Jay's put up all the great Lulu fashion . Oh , that's very , very smart and the shorts .

Speaker 2 57:40

Yes , it's very smart attire .

Speaker 1 57:43

There's a lot of tattoos from the blokes .

Speaker 2 57:46

Yeah , yeah , well yes , in the models I'm talking about .

Speaker 1 57:52

I do wish he'd hit the men's tab instead of the whatever comes up .

Speaker 2 57:54

Well , that is the men's tab . No , it's not , he's got that there now .

Speaker 1 57:56

Now he's on the men's . Oh , I see Okay .

Speaker 2 58:00

So there's a lot of yep . There you go . Look at that beautiful . Thank you , this is Lulu Lemon .

Speaker 1 58:06

Do you want to take a few more calls ? Oh , there's a great text here from our dear friend Tiffy , who says G'day , roger , you'd be proud of me getting up earlier than I ever do . I've managed to change the body clock from sleeping in all hours and now waking up at the same time every morning . It only took a month or so to actually do that .

Speaker 2 58:26

Right Now . I just wanted to talk about this one here . Tiff , I am very proud of you for doing this , because you've obviously listened and learnt that you can actually shift your body clock . What you have mentioned here is , though and I believe it's you're blind . So , therefore , as he puts his glasses on , I'm blind too , but you're blind . So , therefore , as he puts his glasses on , I'm blind too , but , yeah , you're blind , so it's not hard for you to tell when it's light and day . Now , I wanted to talk about this because we actually have retinal ganglion cells in our eye , away from our rods and cones , which sense light , which is the reason why , in blind people , they still have an awareness of whether it's daytime or whether it's nighttime right Now . This is another reason why we don't remove the eyes .

Speaker 1 59:16

Is that for all some ? Occasionally Does it vary in degrees of ?

Speaker 2 59:20

that ? No , no , all in our eye , in everybody's eye , we have our optic nerve which goes out the back of the eye , which has the rods and codes , which registers all the colours . But next to that is what we call the intrinsically photosensitive retinal ganglion cells , and they only register blue , that's all they register . They don't register anything else other than blue , which is the color in the light which we've got a hell of a lot around us at the moment . Anyway , this is the reason why they don't take the eye out , a diseased eye out of a person , unless they absolutely have to .

Speaker 2 59:59

Because even closed , that retinal ganglion cell still registers the light and still triggers the pineal gland to release melatonin at night and also for the daytime and to let them know when it's daytime . So this is why Tiff has been able to get up earlier and she's obviously using time cues by listening to different people on radio and doing whatever she's doing . So she gets to do that , so she knows when it's daytime . She's getting that light . So she's been able to completely switch her body clock into a diurnal creature , sleeps at night and awake during the day .

Speaker 1 1:00:39

Good on you , Tiff , Well done . Tonight's issue is your thoughts about maybe bringing back things like cadets cadets in schools , in many of the schools

Discipline and Training in Society

Speaker 1 1:00:48

.

Speaker 2 1:00:48

Why can't we have conscription ? I've got friends that live in Switzerland and all the kids go through . I think it's 12 months or two years in the army there after school . Why can't we For ?

Speaker 1 1:00:59

the training , purely for the training , purely for the discipline and training and everything else .

Speaker 2 1:01:05

It's Switzerland , so of course it's not like they're going to battle anyway . But what I'm saying is they all go through this training , and it teaches respect , it teaches hierarchy , order . We don't end up with a society full of snowflakes either .

Speaker 1 1:01:22

Society full of snowflakes . That was a bit dismissive .

Speaker 2 1:01:27

What are the characteristics of a snowflake People that can't cope in society the people that run home and tell their mum and dad that the local cop spoke to them . I would never have done that as a kid If the local cop had spoken to me down the street because I'd been a little bit cheeky . Well , they did because they did .

Speaker 1 1:01:47

They did do that all the time .

Speaker 2 1:01:49

They used to just pull up and get my name and things like that and you know I remember looking over the folder I can still remember the cop and it was a bloke I worked with later on many years later .

Speaker 1 1:01:59

No , you did not , did you . I did too , really I .

Speaker 8 1:02:01

Really , I absolutely did too Love that story . A member of .

Speaker 2 1:02:03

Belgrove and I , when I was a youth Growing up and I remember , as he was asking me my name , I was looking over the top Of his pad as he was writing it down and he just lifted it up and nearly took my god damn nose off . Yeah , he nearly took my nose off . And Would I go home and tell my parents that ? Not a chance in hell I would have copped another one , whereas these days they go running home , then they're down the police station and they're making complaints , making complaints .

Speaker 2 1:02:32

This is where we've gone wrong . It's where we've gone wrong in such a big way today .

Speaker 1 1:02:37

I reckon the year would have been I'm thinking early part of the 60s when we were kids and the St Oswald's Church just on High Street in between Glen Iris and Ashburton would have this regular fete and it was really exciting because they would put up this thing called trampolines .

Speaker 1 1:02:53

And so you would pay a fee to go on the trampoline and so you'd line up , and so you know you'd hang around and watch other people on the trampoline at the front of the St Oswald's fete on a Friday night or whatever . It was Friday , saturday night might have been both , and then , if there was any perception of poor behaviour , what was it called ? Just loitering ?

Speaker 2 1:03:12

I guess yeah , just hanging Is that still an offence loitering Loitering with intent but you'd have to be able to prove that they were loitering with intent . To do something now . Right , of course , but you've got to remember . When I started in the police back in the 80s and any members that are listening from way back in then we used to have what we called the Wild Bush and Bracken Act the Wild Bush and Bracken Act . It covered everything right .

Speaker 1 1:03:42

That's fantastic .

Speaker 2 1:03:44

The Wild Bush and Bracken Act . So what we would do if it looked like someone was doing the wrong thing . There was clearly a section in the Wild Bush and Bracken Act and we would just deal with them , put them in the car , drive them to another suburb , drop them off . That was it Done .

Speaker 1 1:03:56

Love it Wild Bush and the Wild Bush and Bracken Act . We covered everything . That is fantastic . But then , just going back to the St Oswald story , if the local cop or the police car would pull up at the side of the curb , wave a finger , call you towards the car at that point you're actually ready to lose your movement and control and they would say where are you , who are you and what time are you heading ?

Speaker 2 1:04:21

home . That was yes , sir , no sir , absolutely . All the way and that put the fear off and the adrenaline dump because the cops had pulled up as well . Now they just don't care at all .

Speaker 1 1:04:31

Now the one and only Roger Sutherland is with us . We'll let him go home very shortly for Australia Overnight he stayed way longer than you expected this morning because the conversation has been fantastic . Great callers will go to Pete in Adelaide in just a tick you and I . You get to 17 , 18 , 19 , 20 or 21 or 25 and you go ?

Speaker 2 1:04:53

you know I'm thinking I might like to become a bikey . Well , it's interesting , isn't it ? Do you apply ? Or do you ? I haven't . Who do you ring and say I'm thinking about becoming a bikey ?

Speaker 2 1:05:00

I know there's an initiation . There's a lot of initiations . You've got to prove yourself in certain areas doing certain things . I'd hate to think what you've got to do . I know the Coffin Cheaters . I remember years ago when I used to live down in Gippsland . When the Coffin Cheaters came through there was something like they used to have to hang a dead rat around their neck for like two weeks or something like that . There's a lot of weird stuff that they did back then . I don't know what it's like now . I've got no idea .

Speaker 1 1:05:28

But if you grew up in Camberwell , for example ?

Speaker 3 1:05:32

in .

Speaker 1 1:05:32

Melbourne and you get to a certain age and go . I'm thinking about becoming a bike who do you ring ?

Speaker 2 1:05:38

I don't know . We go to the clubhouse .

Speaker 1 1:05:41

How do you find out where the clubhouse is ? Are they in the phone book ? Look in the white pages , the white pages . Who do you ring In Adelaide ?

Speaker 13 1:05:51

Hello Pete , Good evening gentlemen , Go ahead . Something triggered me when you were talking and the word that came up was the local copper ,

Community Policing and Respect in Society

Speaker 13 1:05:59

Yep . And being a kid in Adelaide , I'm 70s now Yep , we used to . Before all the big police stations were built , there was a house in each suburb where an officer lived with his wife and family and he went round the streets day and night , but he knew everybody .

Speaker 13 1:06:21

Yeah that's right . And now it's a situation where where , because of the changing in staff , the police only know the troublemakers and anyone with a record Yep . So true , when you say local , there's no local in it anymore .

Speaker 2 1:06:37

No , pudu , you make a really , really valid point here , which is something that I think we lost sight of here in Victoria when we started closing all the smaller stations and building those super stations , which is what you said , and I remember working in an area where there were three police stations closed to form one big super station . And you are dead right . You run off your feet only ever dealing with the criminals . There's none of this . Walking like strip shops and talking to the shopkeepers and things like that at all .

Speaker 2 1:07:10

We've lost that that sense of community .

Speaker 13 1:07:13

He used to come around . He knew everywhere there was a group of us and he knew everywhere , in each park where we would sit and smoke , he knew what delis we went to and he knew where we lived . And he'd drive the streets after he's had his dinner with his wife and he'd see us , four or five of us together , and we might get a clip in the air and he'd just turn around and say we'd say what's that for ? And he'd say , because you're going to do something wrong later , that's right and you'd accept it . But we respected him .

Speaker 2 1:07:44

But he knew everything that was going on in most probably a 5K area and whenever there was a problem he knew where to go to find out who would tell him , and we knew where to go too , and you knew where to go too , yeah , and we knew his name .

Speaker 13 1:08:00

Yeah , we did .

Speaker 1 1:08:01

What suburb were you in those days , Pete ?

Speaker 13 1:08:04

In a four-star area , so we weren't a lot of troublemakers , but we got into trouble , yeah . We were mucked up and when we started with our motorbikes and stuff , he used to come and check them and make sure when we were on our earls that we didn't have people on the back you know pillion passengers that didn't have a licence and all that sort of stuff . He just knew every place we went to .

Speaker 1 1:08:28

You would have been swatting around with the Burnside Hotel or something .

Speaker 13 1:08:32

A bit further down . A bit further down , yeah , through Myrtle Bank and Unley and stuff .

Speaker 1 1:08:39

Beautiful .

Speaker 13 1:08:40

But it was just so different and , as I said , there was such a personal contact . But the other word you use , which we lose target of , is respect .

Speaker 1 1:08:49

Respect . That's the key to it . That is the key to it . Good on you , pete . If we've learned anything in the last hour and a half is the absence in many , many people's . What's the word I'm looking for In many , many people's DNA is this lack of respect for themselves . I think it must start with self-respect .

Speaker 2 1:09:13

Yeah , it's an interesting… and if that's not engrained in… . Yeah , give that some thought I will . We'll talk about that next week . Are they not respecting themselves , which is why they don't respect anybody ?

Speaker 1 1:09:20

else . Well , it feels like that because I think anybody that has a strong level of self-respect and this is only an assertion , not a- psychologist .

Speaker 4 1:09:29

Yeah , yeah , yeah , no , I agree .

Speaker 1 1:09:31

That if you've got a heightened level of self-respect , my assertion would be you're unlikely to commit , you know , offence ? Yeah , to any great degree . Yeah , absolutely . All of us make mistakes , and that's not to say that you don't get called speeding or you don't get doing something stupid , but to decide well , what I'm going to do , because I don't give a stuff about me or anybody else I'll go and hit that house and I'll steal that brand new Audi from the driveway .

Speaker 2 1:09:58

Yeah , someone raised a point in the text before as well that a lot of these young fellas are put up by organised crime to steal these cars that end up going off market elsewhere . So there's that criminal element there . But if you've got no respect for yourself , would you have any respect for anybody else ? You would not .

Speaker 1 1:10:19

No , quickly Sean . You wanted to respond .

Speaker 8 1:10:22

Yeah , sorry , fellas . Yeah , I didn't think I'd get a chance for a retort , but very , two quick things very quickly . It wasn't the topic of the conversation . But as far as the Thai adult prostitution goes , like I said , that wasn't the topic . But they do not have Centrelink or the doll over there . It's not what they set out to do , but they've got no money . That's why they're not there .

Speaker 8 1:10:43

But number two , what I would say and I was very clear when I said the systematic approach to it's got to be the disciplining officer , it's got to be the principal , it's then got to be the parent ultimately , that agrees to it . But I think the previous caller typified exactly where we're at in society , because over there the very first question they would ask is what did Johnny do ? His very first response is you hit my kid ? I will belch you . The first question should be what did he do Not ? How dare you do that ? And that's exactly where we are as a society , it's where we are at the schools , it's where we are with the crimes . You've got to ask what did he do ?

Speaker 1 1:11:22

Good point . That's why I love this audience I've got to tell you , because the texts are fantastic . You get all the snippets of great information , things that maybe you and I don't know , and there's

Police Station Pods and Local Assistance

Speaker 1 1:11:33

a lot of things you and I do not know . Japan , for example , says JD , full of local little police stations called KUBAN . I hope I've pronounced that correctly . Kuban is it K-O-U-B-A-N ? Very tiny spaces seating two to three officers police officers . Their role is they're more to help locals rather than make arrests so it has a certain slightly softer image , almost a shop front .

Speaker 2 1:11:59

Yeah , I think VicPol have tried this too , when they had well , I don't know whether they still do , but they had one at Flinders Street Railway Station as well which is they did , yeah , that people could just go up and report that their wallet had been stolen or lost or they can't find little Johnny , or something like that . So they did have it here . But obviously with Japan , with the density of the population , they've probably got them more . I just Googled it . You can see the images of them as well . They're just like little pods .

Speaker 1 1:12:31

Have a look for what Roger does ahealthyshiftcom . Lots of information there . Ahealthyshift on Instagram . A underscore healthy underscore shift . Roger , thank you for coming in . We'll see you in a couple of weeks . Thank you for having me .