Remembering Songs and Honoring Shift Workers

Speaker 1 0:00

On the program . It is a Thursday morning every couple of weeks we catch up with Roger Sutherland , the Night Shift . It's gonna be a long night , it's alright . The Night Shift , you found another home . I know you're not alone On the Night Shift . For those that don't know , roger is a veteran law enforcement officer . Got away with it for over four decades . Great service to Victoria . Roger coaches these days shift workers to thrive , survive and occasionally sing a great song . You made the point , I think you said . Why is it ? We can remember the words of great songs from 35 , 45 years ago , but we can't necessarily remember what we did two days ago .

Speaker 2 0:44

And good morning to you , tony . It's incredible , isn't it ? It is . I don't know how it actually happens . We talked about this just before . All of a sudden , you can launch into that song , going out in Dennis with Frankie J Holden . Frankie was having a birthday .

Speaker 1 0:59

I knew all the words to that song .

Speaker 2 1:00

Now I couldn't tell you . The last time I heard that song and we're in the studio next door to Dan and we're singing it Exactly . It's a great track and yet I'm trying to learn the words to a song at the moment that I'm absolutely it's like an earworm in my head at the moment , and it's Lola Young and her song , messy , and it's just an absolute beauty . An absolute beauty , lola Young and Messy . Don't play it .

Speaker 1 1:23

Whatever you do , whatever you do , don't play it , because it's got words , it's got words , it's got words .

Speaker 2 1:28

Yeah , I just saw Max reach for the controller .

Speaker 1 1:31

No , don't play it . So what was special about it ?

Speaker 2 1:34

What attracted it to you , given that Well , I can tell you what it is . I can imagine . I'm very in touch with my feminine side . I can actually imagine what it would be like for a female growing up with a boyfriend that you're never good enough . Like it doesn't matter what you do , you're just not good enough . You're either too messy or you're too goddamn clean . You've got to go and get a job , or where the hell have you been ? Do you know what I mean ? Like it's that sort of thing . What a great listener . Oh , it's absolutely fantastic . New , new or been around for a while ? No , she's brand new , she's only 23 . She's out of the UK and she has just released an album which is a banger . Now , there's the word it's a banger . There you go . Yeah , the album is absolutely fantastic .

Speaker 2 2:16

And how did you discover it On the wireless , or no ? Actually , someone shared it on their Insta story and I thought oh wow , I really like that and I've gone . I'm just hooked on it . Of course , as soon as Melissa heard it , she just went oh yeah , that's messy . Well done , blah , blah , blah , familiar . Oh my god , now it's an earworm . I've been stuck on it for days .

Speaker 1 2:34

Isn't it interesting that that's how many people in the day . It might have been a 3XPR in Perth during those music days , or you know one of the FM stations going back 30 years , and yet we now hear it differently , in different forms , not just on the wireless .

Speaker 2 2:50

Exactly right , and you would remember the radio sitting there with the tape player , with your fingers on the record and the pause button , waiting for the DJ to stop talking . Stop talking over my song .

Speaker 1 3:03

And the master of that craft was a bloke by the name . Well , there's two . There was Donnie Lunn , which you may or may not , just remember , the old three you said , and another one by the name of Alan Lappin . And so there were great and there was many , but they were the two that stood out for me . So you'd spend a bit of time you're eight , nine , ten , you're thinking how do they do this ? And you record it back in those days on a reel-to-reel , tiny little reel-to-reel , and then try to work out how they got into the song , how they got out of the song and what they did . It was just their rock and roll way of presenting .

Speaker 2 3:34

It was so clever , like so clever , with it coming in and out , and now Spotify , just it literally fades from one song into the next and merges it through AI . It's amazing , absolutely incredible , but anyway . So why do we remember songs ? What's your karaoke song that you can literally just go bang , and I know all the words to it .

Speaker 1 3:55

It would be from the Monkees Daydream . Believer Love it , Great song .

Speaker 2 4:02

Yeah , mine's the Boys Light Up by Australian Crawl . I don't even need the words , I just put it straight on and away we go with the Boys Light Up . I just absolutely love that song and you know what it's like when K-San's played as well with Cold Chisel . Everyone knows the words to K-San and Sings .

Speaker 1 4:19

Yeah , of course that is a great one , but with an Aussie Crawls song . Do you know the verse or just the chorus ?

Speaker 2 4:25

Oh , no , the whole lot . You know the verses as soon as it starts playing . I know .

Speaker 1 4:29

You may be the only person in .

Speaker 2 4:30

Australia , who can understand ?

Speaker 1 4:32

James Rain .

Speaker 3 4:33

James Rain singing .

Speaker 2 4:34

Well , I've seen James Rain live and I think I am the only person that can understand . He's absolutely fantastic live . Still he was playing at Crown Paladium doing Crown Palms Sorry . Every second Saturday night or the first Sunday in the month or something like that going back last year or the year before . James Raine is an exceptional performer to go and see live .

Speaker 1 4:56

still let's talk about shift workers , because many will be tuned in now . As we know in this audience , it's often about those that are working overnight . It could be driving , it could be I don't know cooking late meals , certainly in hospitals . Who else ? There could be people in supermarkets this time of the year stacking shelves . Back in the day they would have radios on . I'm sure they probably still do .

Speaker 2 5:18

Taxi drivers , uber drivers , people working out at the airport I say it all the time . Obviously , we've got our police emergency services . We've also got our frontline help everyone in a hospital . It was actually flagged with us a fortnight ago when we had Hayley here as well when we were talking about she was great Hayley the radiologist that's working 24-7 as well , and the person that's the phlebotomist that does the bloods that rang in that was talking to us about that . She's on standby in the hospital overnight for emergencies to do the blood . Christmas Day is six days away , tony . Can you believe it ? Like , can you believe it ? It's terrifying . Now I've got to be honest .

Speaker 1 6:00

Well , it's terrifying as long as we didn't know it was coming . But because we're older , it seems to be more present , more quickly than it did when we were a child .

Speaker 2 6:08

I saw my first Boxing Day sale email today .

Speaker 1 6:12

Can you believe it no .

Speaker 2 6:14

Absolutely . I did the Boxing Day sale . It started already . But what I wanted to do was I want to acknowledge and I really would like to take the floor for a second , just acknowledge all of our frontline health and emergency services . We're all looking for breaks . Like you said to me before , one more , one more show I've got tonight and then tomorrow night . Tonight is tomorrow night is the last one . So Friday morning , friday morning , you'll finish and then you've got a month off and of course I'll take that . I'm going to be working through on the business anyway . But all those other people have seen their roster and knowing now that they're working Christmas Day , they're working into Christmas Day , young children , all the rest , sacrificing all that time . We want to say thank you to all of those that keep this place running all the time and there's going to be people in here on the radio , on the panel texts that will be running in the background . You know there's a lot of people that are working .

Speaker 1 7:12

And will continue to work .

Speaker 2 7:13

Are you working ? This is who we want to hear from . Are you working Christmas Day ? And if you are working Christmas Day , when ? Do you do Christmas with your family ? Or do you do Christmas or do you just write it off ?

Speaker 1 7:26

Yeah , good point , and I think there will be hundreds and hundreds of people listening that will be in that very . I mean for years I did breakfast every single morning in Perth for a long time , right through the early part of the 2000s , and loved it because in those days we could put calls from people around the world and connect them back in the day when that was a thing and connect them with their friends and family loved ones overseas .

Speaker 2 7:51

We don't listen to them . It's just fantastic . It was wonderful .

Speaker 1 7:55

So I like the idea of doing those sorts of programs and I think I'm not too sure

Discussing Christmas Shifts and Drones

Speaker 1 8:01

who's doing . Breaking on a dub Christmas morning Might be , no , it might be Pete .

Speaker 2 8:05

Might be gr .

Speaker 1 8:05

I'm not too sure who's doing breaking on A-dub Christmas morning . Tony Jones , no , it might be Pete . Pete , it might be Grubby . Oh yeah , I think Grubby's doing it . We've got to do this break . When we come back , plenty of time for your calls . Come and join us . Where are you ? What would you be doing over the Christmas break in terms of work ? Do you take a few weeks off , perhaps ? Or we want to really hear from you If you keep going and in what capacity . Do you keep going right through ? 1-double-3-6-9-3 . For those of you in Perth on the Wednesday night , feel free to join us 1-double-3-6-9-3 . But the number for you , of course , is 1-double-3-8-82 . It is Australia Overnight . I'm Tony McManus . Your call's the other side of this , tony Mac . Here , roger Sutherland , we're talking about the great shift workers and what they may or may not be doing right across the Christmas and New Year holidays . 1-336-93 . Perth listeners , you can get on board too . 1-338 82 . We've been talking about drones as well , roger .

Speaker 1 9:02

Are you into the drone thing .

Speaker 2 9:05

I've just bought one . I've just bought one . I've just bought a drone . Yeah , I bought myself .

Speaker 1 9:08

You didn't tell me that I'm talking about drones . You didn't say anything .

Speaker 2 9:11

I've got two . Oh , I haven't had a chance to get in . What do you do ? What do you do with them ? One of it just follows me around it's fantastic , I get footage for my social media and the other one I've got to get out of town because I've got these big drones full of passengers going over my head . I've got to get out of Dodge . I've got to get out of town with it because , well , because what ? You use it ? Yeah , well , because I'm too close to the airport and apparently the drones with the passengers outweigh the drones that are unmanned . Really , yes , in a big way .

Speaker 1 9:47

I still don't understand . I have no idea what you just said , but I'll go with it anyway .

Speaker 2 9:51

Keep your drone out of the way of the commercial flights .

Speaker 1 9:53

Thank you have a listen to this , just before we take some calls . A great text from Marion at Pactum . You know I've got a fascination with watches . Yes , very much . So . Have a listen to this . Marion writes G'day Tony Mark Zuckerberg's display of the Bulgari finissimo . Stunning craftsmanship , an extraordinary price tag , thinnest mechanical watch at just 1.7 , a marvel of engineering , a true masterpiece for watch enthusiasts , collectors alike . Why would you not ? Zuckerberg's Riches ? How much For a watch ? One each $590,000 .

Speaker 2 10:33

Is that US ? I want to know if that's USD .

Speaker 1 10:35

Doesn't matter .

Speaker 2 10:36

It's still a lot of .

Speaker 1 10:37

That's a lot of , yeah , still a lot of , either way .

Speaker 2 10:39

You'd love it though , wouldn't you ?

Speaker 1 10:40

You would just love it Well , a long way away from that , but I can imagine how gorgeous it would be and you grab it at retail and before you know it it'll jump up oh yeah . Quickly An investment Jimmy , Jimmy , Jimmy , Jimmy .

Speaker 3 11:48

Hello James , good morning Tony and Roger and Max . First of all , tony , just in case I don't speak to you tomorrow . Merry Christmas and .

Speaker 1 11:58

Oh , that's kind of you . It will , though . It will , though You'll be here tomorrow . I just know exactly where you live . If you don't come on the program tomorrow , I'll come round to your house .

Speaker 3 12:07

Okay , and also Roger . First of all , Merry Christmas to you , because I don't know when I'll speak to you again .

Speaker 2 12:14

Thank you so much . I do appreciate it , and you .

Speaker 3 12:17

My question is because you're on the police force Yep , I was . I'm guessing

Shift Work Challenges and Holidays

Speaker 3 12:25

you would have seen a lot of young police coming out of the academy and do go from day shift to night shift and afternoon shift . I was wondering do the young ones take it worse , or the females or people who have been there longer , or does it depend on each individual person ? Great question , jimmy .

Speaker 2 12:51

Jim , that is an absolutely fantastic question . I'll speak personally for me . I used to do the night shift in a canter . I had no problems . I used to look forward to the night shift and absolutely thrive on it . I would come home from work and I would sleep a solid eight hours without a problem in the world . As you get older , it gets harder and harder to do it .

Speaker 2 13:15

It's not as easy to do it Now . In general rules , I would say that the young people tend to do night shift a lot better . I can tell you this , though Females do shift work a lot harder than males do . Females tend to look around at their male colleagues and can't work out why they are doing it so easily . Females are dealing with a whole range of hormonal issues . They've also got a very compromised digestive tract as well , which causes them a lot of issues around night shift because- .

Speaker 1 13:47

Really what's a compromised digestive ?

Speaker 2 13:50

Well , they've actually got a longer digestive tract . Their stomach is less acidic . Female's stomach is less acidic than a male's , so therefore it actually empties slower . So therefore there's that fermentation and it causes problems , which is why a lot of females get gas and bloating . I think the other thing that we have to consider as well is a female colon is also longer than the male , and where is the female reproductive organs ? They are internal , whereas the males are external . They are internal whereas the males are external . Once a month , for a week or so , you can find that they're highly agitated , at the same time as we can end up with a desynchronized circadian rhythm , not digesting food properly . They tend to agitate each other as well . Here's a fun fact for you too Food takes 14 hours on average , longer to transit a female than it does a male . There you go .

Speaker 1 14:39

An interesting couple of stats thrown in there , Jimmy . Good on you . We'll talk again tomorrow , Rob in WA Morning Robert . Good morning Tony . How are you ? I'm well Robert .

Speaker 4 14:50

You wanted to say , yeah , I work Well when I used to work . I've retired now I never once worked on Christmas Day , never , Never . I wanted to have Christmas for me , with family . That's interesting I would not work on Christmas Day .

Speaker 2 15:08

Were you doing a job where you could have been working .

Speaker 4 15:11

I could have , but no one was working . Nobody worked on Christmas .

Speaker 1 15:17

Day . No one worked Christmas Day Okay .

Speaker 4 15:19

Yeah , of course that's not a . I would never buy a drone .

Speaker 1 15:23

You'd never buy what . A drone . You'd never buy a drone . Never work on a Sunday , never , never on a Sunday , a Sunday . Remember that song yeah , never buy a drone . Good on you , rob . Always good to hear your voice over there in WA 1-double-3-6-9-3 . Hospitality is the other one . I mean . So many places are open for Christmas . There'll be people that work in hospitality that are lined up and ready to go for Christmas Day .

Speaker 2 15:46

Oh , yeah , preparing for it now . Yeah , they'll be preparing for it now Because a lot of people want to go out . They don't want to do that . This has become common , hasn't it in the last probably what 20 years or so , where people now organise their family functions at restaurants . Well , someone's got to work , cook , serve , do the whole thing there . So , yeah , people will be working . There's a lot . I think we tend to lose it with our society today , 24-7 . Christmas Day comes goes , easter comes goes . I think we tend to find that people are now more working . It loses the gloss . I know for a fact . Like my last six Christmases in the place , I worked every one of them in the last six years by request .

Speaker 1 16:31

No , not by request , I was just rostered , so you had the option to decline no .

Speaker 2 16:37

No , if you're rostered to work , you work and that's it Now it's At a higher rate . Oh no , if Christmas Day falls on a during the day , if it falls on a Monday to Friday , it's a standard rate . Now , this is what I want people to understand . So this is really important . If you're working Christmas Day and it's during the week , you're working it for a normal rate . All right . Christmas Day public . If it falls on a weekend , you get a weekend rate , and then the public holiday you'll get a rate . I think I can't remember . Now it's Christmas Day , boxing Day , australia Day and New Year's Day .

Speaker 2 17:15

There was an additional rate for working it the public holiday that you got off in lieu for it . So if you were working on a Sunday and it was Christmas Day , you would get the Sunday rate , which is a percentage . It's about time and a half for working the . Sunday , whatever it is on the Sunday , but on the public holiday day rate . If the public holiday was allocated to the Monday , then you would get an additional rate which was almost double time for that Monday .

Speaker 1 17:45

So you are presumably lucky you didn't hospitalise . You have people putting their hand up and say well , I am available because you can do some good dollars on those days .

Speaker 2 17:53

Yeah , yes , but it's a hell of a sacrifice too , you know , because you're there for eight hours .

Speaker 1 17:59

It depends on your family situation .

Speaker 2 18:01

Well , it does .

Speaker 1 18:02

We were kids at the Hotel Australia and later at the Hilton as students . You just put your hand up because you knew that instead of making in those days let's say , your day may have been worth $70 , for doing exactly the same work on one of those holidays , you pick up $150 or $140, . Double it , Yep .

Speaker 2 18:18

for doing exactly the same work on one of those holidays , you pick up $150 , $140 , double it , yep . I also found it very difficult because when I was in the very , very early days in policing , I took one for the . You had to take one because the senior people were the ones that were off . They'd earned the right to be off at Christmastime and take that time off no problems with that in any way whatsoever and you would work that to give the senior people with families those time off . I think I got towards the end and I'm bitter on it , but I got towards the end and I was still working Christmas Day with grandchildren or the grandchild as well as with children , and it just completely stuffed up my Christmas .

Speaker 1 18:55

So , in terms of service , they don't say look , you know , if you have young children , you are eligible to apply for the day off .

Speaker 2 19:05

You could request it , you could . You could request Christmas Day off , no problems at all . But they've still got to have , you know , you've got to remember . They've got to have the watch houses running , they've got to have the div vans on the road , the supervisors .

Speaker 1 19:17

Because we demand it .

Speaker 2 19:18

I say Well , they've got to have everybody out . It's not just one person turning up , everyone , it's got to be all covered .

Speaker 1 19:25

Roger , once a shift worker , always a shift worker . Life body clock never really goes back to normal . I think there's something in that , says Nerson .

Speaker 2 19:39

We seem to have picked up a common thread here since I've started this show this year . A lot of people are still struggling , but I'm still adamant . I've swapped my circadian rhythm back to days when it used to be a late chronotype , but I'm definitely an early bird now . I definitely rise early and thrive in the morning .

Speaker 1 19:53

Linda on the road again . Hello , yes , linda , go ahead Anytime . You're ready , linda .

Speaker 8 20:02

Hello , how are you ?

Speaker 1 20:03

We're really well , thank you .

Speaker 8 20:05

Good , I was just ringing in regards to shift work , not myself , but actually for my son . It's a mining industry , so they continue over Christmas .

Speaker 1 20:16

Yes , they do , very good point yeah , Even on the Sunday , or even on the Sunday , even on the day itself Christmas .

Speaker 8 20:23

Christmas Day and New Year's , the whole thing . So it's just an all-normal shift . It's just all normal . Yep . Yeah , so they work a week on and then they go from day just straight to night . Yeah , I think it doesn't matter whether it's Easter or Christmas .

Speaker 2 20:40

Yeah , linda , I think one of the things here in relation to this most of the people that are fly-in , fly-out and they're working in the mines are in camps . So if they shut it down , what are you going to do ? Like , just hang around the camp all day ?

Speaker 8 20:55

Yes , exactly , and it seems to go with whatever group that you come through on . So you know they have all different .

Speaker 2 21:03

Yeah , they do Rotations .

Speaker 8 21:05

Exactly Rotations , and they don't actually rotate . Which ones are working for different years , which is interesting as well , I suppose it just depends on where you're based .

Speaker 2 21:15

That is interesting , that it doesn't work on a different rotation , where this year it's your turn , but next year it would be the black crew's turn , then it's the yellow crew's turn , then it's the gold crew's turn , or whatever .

Speaker 8 21:26

So it's interesting how they all work differently .

Speaker 2 21:28

So if you score Christmas on your first rotation . You can guarantee that you're going to get it every year .

Speaker 8 21:33

Correct . I think my son's had it for the last four .

Speaker 2 21:36

That is most unfortunate , but think of the money he's earning . Does he send mum a cheque ? That's right , I hope he sends mum a cheque .

Speaker 8 21:43

He fills up my car and does lots of many things .

Speaker 2 21:46

He's a good boy , isn't he ?

Speaker 8 21:48

They're all good boys , aren't they ? Good on you , linda . That's a lovely call , thank you .

Speaker 1 21:52

I don't know whether you've been to places like New York , for example , and if you're walking around New York at Christmas Day , you would not know it's Christmas Day . Oh , really , nothing changes . There are zillions of people everywhere . Everything's open . It just has no bearing on the day itself .

Speaker 2 22:13

I love New York and it's a great place , and that really surprises me , because I thought it would be one of those songs when you could look at it and go . It's a great place . And that really surprises me , because I thought it would be one of those songs when you could look at it and go . There's a lot of people that don't celebrate Christmas too , isn't there ? That's probably the point .

Speaker 1 22:27

I think we just assume that .

Speaker 2 22:30

Everyone's shutting and everyone's doing their thing .

Speaker 1 22:32

Everybody goes and has some really hot meat , if they did no longer necessarily the case , certainly in places like that . We'll do this when we come back . Your call's , lenny . We'll go to Adelaide as well . Corey , in Melbourne town , 133693 . You'll get through straight away . Come and join us . It is Australia Overnight morning , Sammy says in Hastings , roger , shift workers , police in particular , should not have to work Christmas with permission only , given plenty of notice , maybe just be on standby . Well , I don't know that . That's probably a reality , is it ? You can't do that , no .

Speaker 2 23:04

You just can't do that because you've got to be ready to react straight away to incidents and , unfortunately , what happens on Christmas Day .

Speaker 1 23:14

People have a beverage .

Speaker 2 23:15

And they get together with Uncle John , who they haven't seen for 12 months .

Speaker 1 23:19

And have two beverages .

Speaker 2 23:20

And they have two beverages , three beverages , and they don't like Uncle John . And this is the problem . That happens on Christmas Day and you've got to be ready all the time , fighting All the time , all the time People get together that haven't been together for 12 months , the other issues . Here's one that you might have thought of as well Dad has the kids for lunch , mum has the kids for dinner .

Speaker 2 23:40

There's got to be a swap over Always the McDonald's car park . There's always issues in the McDonald's car park or the police station . For you it's a really tough call . It's a tough day to work Christmas day .

Speaker 1 23:51

Shame and scandal in the family . Oh my god . I love the human body . I know my female body better and I'm shocked . But great radio , I love it . Thank you , roger . Once a shift worker for life . Body check never goes back to normal . Well , I think we've had that one . The point of that is you say that the body can go back ?

Speaker 2 24:10

It absolutely can , but you've got to get your light diet right End . It absolutely can , but you've got to get your light diet right .

Speaker 1 24:15

End of story . Where we go , ian in Adelaide .

Speaker 10 24:18

Hello G'day guys . How are you Well , thank you . This is the opposite end to Christmas , which is Easter . Yes , I used to work Easter as a winery cellar hand Easter every year . Every year we did Easter , and also just as an extra , when the clocks turned back to daylight , saving normal time , I always used to get a 13-hour night .

Speaker 2 24:44

There it is .

Speaker 10 24:46

And everybody used to make fun of me because for some reason I'd like about six in a row . I had to work 13 hours instead of 12 . How's that ?

Speaker 2 24:54

It absolutely sucks and there's no other way of putting it . If you're working a 12-hour shift when that clock at 3 am goes back to 2 am , you just hear the groan in the room yeah , and I've been there many a time and the clock goes back on the screen clock and you just think , oh , my God , I've lost A great friend and colleague , Alan Pearsall , who sat in this very chair on weekends for years at 3RW hosting the overnight program , and I'd often smile wryly because he would always cop that as well , whether the clock would go backwards or forwards .

Speaker 2 25:25

Oh yeah , For years . And now a lot of places don't pay you the extra now too , because they figure that your term will come where you get the advantage of the clock moving forward Out of interest . Dean , did you get paid extra ?

Speaker 10 25:41

Did I get paid extra ?

Speaker 2 25:42

Yeah , for that extra hour .

Speaker 10 25:44

Oh , of course , 100% . Yeah , always , always , absolutely .

Speaker 1 25:50

So you got paid extra , but they didn't take it away when it kicked in .

Speaker 2 25:58

Well , he didn't know , because he didn't work it . He was only working the other one .

Speaker 1 26:01

Oh right , so you only worked the one where it was an extra hour .

Speaker 10 26:05

Yeah , yeah , yeah , when the clocks kept going backwards every year . I used to do 13 hours , got paid for 13 hours , but I was the sucker that always seemed to get

Shift Work Challenges and Consequences

Speaker 10 26:15

it all the time .

Speaker 12 26:16

I'm free .

Speaker 1 26:17

I'm free . Thank you , Ian . Good to talk to you , Lenny hello .

Speaker 6 26:21

Good evening guys . Yeah , I did what ? 26 years Long time , yep , yep . And you're talking to someone about women working , gift work and all that . We had women truck drivers there because we were driving high-lift catering trucks and I worked there 26 years , so I got three Christmases off and it didn't worry me , especially in the early days .

Speaker 1 26:53

Did you have family during those days , Len , and how did you cope with all of that ?

Speaker 6 26:58

Well , the thing is we'd just bought a house in Melton . Then all of a sudden , the interest rates went up and when Christmas work came around , I just ate it up , mate . Yeah , everybody wanted Christmas off , so I worked it .

Speaker 2 27:11

Yep , a lot of people do that . They'd put their hand up because of the extra coin .

Speaker 6 27:16

Yeah , and you know you work in what . 16-hour shifts .

Speaker 1 27:23

Yes , I just can't believe that . No , that's horrendous .

Speaker 6 27:27

And you drop 1,700 shifts at seven in a row and then you get four days off , and then I'd probably work two of those , another two 16-hour shifts and one day off , and yeah , Good on you , Lenny .

Speaker 1 27:46

I can't work out how you can do a 16-hour shift that regularly . I mean you might do it occasionally because you have to and you get the rewards for that , but if you're doing that sort of stuff on a regular basis , I can assure you , at the moment a lot of our nurses are working 16-hour shifts , as in they're doing doubles , and this has become a real issue .

Speaker 2 28:04

I actually interviewed a sleep specialist on my podcast during the week and we were discussing this very point working 16 hours . By the time you imagine a nurse working 16 hours looking after you in a hospital , it's like towards the end of that 16-hour shift , it's the equivalent of working intoxicated , like 0.05 . Even just working a normal night-to-night shift is like working intoxicated . Even you , your reaction time and everything that's happening for you , even working here , because your circadian disruption and everything's just so out of whack it is like working intoxicated . Now , if you imagine finishing . I remember those days .

Speaker 1 28:47

Oh , so do I . There's some of the best broadcasters in the world . Had a hip flask . Had aters in the world .

Speaker 2 28:54

Had a hip flask .

Speaker 1 28:55

Had a hip flask , had a hip flask . No names , no pack drill . Oh no , wait for the book .

Speaker 2 29:00

I've seen people drive around with a six pack in the footwell of the car as well . But you know , those days in the very , very , I'm talking a long time ago . I'm not talking in the eyes , but that's how it used to be done . But the thing is it's nurses and people working 16-hour shifts . You know how you feel when you finish here after five and a half hours . Kangaroo , edward , yep , you imagine working through until four , five o'clock in the afternoon and then driving home . That's crazy , and that's what nurses are doing . A lot of nurses are doing it . Police are doing double shifts as well at the moment too . It's diabolical . It's very , very short-staffed .

Speaker 1 29:41

Well , that's a thing that , as you well know , given your experience , and it's regularly in the news as well , how desperately we are short , not only in Victoria , but right across Australia , how desperately we are short not only in Victoria , but right across Australia for people to jump into those roles .

Speaker 2 29:56

Oh yeah , policing in particular worldwide is in a mess Worldwide . I noticed it was kind of funny Because of the circles that I'm in with my social media . I noticed in the UK when South Australia Police advertised their what was it ? 18% or 19% pay rise in 12 months , like that's huge . They shared it on all of their social media saying get your applications in Because you know West Australia and South Australia are actively , actively Recruiting , recruiting in the UK for police to come to the stream , and have been for some years .

Speaker 2 30:30

A long time , especially in Perth , Like been advertising and a lot of high-ranking officers in WA are ex-UK police .

Speaker 1 30:39

Well I know , because you're quite often doing late-night shifts . At 6pm in Perth You're going to grab a coffee at the local BP , grab that , and often there would be officers in there also getting a coffee and it was like the cast of the Bill . Oh yeah , it was just amazing the accents . Oh yeah , it was just . You know , it was amazing the accents .

Speaker 2 30:56

Absolutely yeah , and I know , as I said , South Australia and West Australia very , very , very active in pulling people across . And not only that , but my understanding is as well , for people was that they will give visas to their partners , their wives as well . So if you're going to come over , the wife will get a visa to live in Australia as well .

Speaker 1 31:20

Come and join us . 133693 . I'm Tony McRodgers here . We're talking about shift works , the apparels or the joys or otherwise of shift work . Roger joins us every couple of weeks on the program . It's been fantastic right throughout the year . Final time for 2024 . If you'd like to join us , jump on board . 133693 . For those of you in particular that are working right through , we make the point that we all say , well , we're going for a break for three or four weeks and we're blessed because that's not available to everybody . For those that do continue to work right through , where are you , what are you doing , when do you do it and how does it work out for you , family and the precious 1-double-3-6-9-3 . You know how , on the program , roger , we talk about . You talk about the idea of a circadian rhythm . Yes , maggie makes a point . Just explain more information about circadian rhythm and how important that is to those that have to adjust , readjust , on a regular basis because of shift work .

Speaker 2 32:26

It is absolutely horrendous the disruption to circadian rhythms .

Speaker 1 32:33

When you say it's horrendous . Horrendous to everybody , as individuals more so than others . Why is it horrendous ?

Speaker 2 32:41

Well , it's bad because we are a naturally diurnal creature , which means that we sleep at night in the dark and we are awake during the day in the light . That's what we are designed to do . When our maker made us , he said you will sleep at night , you will be awake during the day . But as 24-7 society has evolved , so we've ended up in a situation now where we are just pushing it , we think , oh , we can do this , no problems at all . But what we don't realise is this disruption of getting this light at night and movement at night and eating overnight , the impact that it's actually having on this beautiful circadian rhythm , this biological clock that runs normally every day , into which we've been born . We were born with it , we continue with it and because we are a human , with it , we continue with it . And because we are a human , we actually have a circadian rhythm .

Speaker 2 33:42

Even plants . Anything that's alive actually has a circadian rhythm , anything . That's why , like sunflowers , will face the sun but then they fold over at night . It's got a circadian rhythm . All sorts of plants If you watch your plants at home in the garden , the plants wilt over at night circadian rhythm or you don't water them . Really , everything that's alive has got a circadian rhythm . An ant has got a circadian rhythm . A dog has got a circadian rhythm . A cat's got a circadian rhythm . Plants anything biological has a circadian rhythm in it . And not only that , but our body has a biological clock in every single cell in its body , not just a master clock , and I'm just talking about me and you know I like to talk about myself .

Speaker 1 34:28

The idea of jumping into the cot , let's say , at 6.30 or 7 during the week , jumping into the cot , let's say at 6.30 or 7 during the week , I don't know that I'm any less or more irritable or tired than I would be if I was jumping into the cot at 9.30 or 10 o'clock at night .

Speaker 2 34:43

Yeah , but the biological impact that your light exposure in here is having on you overnight is disrupting all the natural hormones that are released overnight . That brain detox all of those wake hormones . It's disrupting your leptin and ghrelin , your hunger hormones . So that's why we're not designed to be awake at night . We should be in bed , fast asleep , right now . If we did , no one would be listening .

Speaker 1 35:10

But that's where we should be yeah , well you just ruined the entire program for me .

Speaker 2 35:15

I know , but you asked me about a circadian rhythm . Thank you , but we're in a 24-7 society now , tony . We absolutely have to have our shift workers doing the thing . A couple of quick calls Johnny Richmond morning . Yes . John .

Speaker 7 35:30

Hello , Hello , John . I used to work night shift in Europe and America . You know very hard work , you know , because I was self-employed . I was a pimp .

Speaker 1 35:45

You were a . What A pimp you were . What A pimp Is that ? I think he might be taking the P155 . Pete in Port Melbourne morning Pete .

Speaker 13 35:58

Morning guys . Just wanted to ask you just the financial side of working shifts . Do you know much about

Shift Worker Pay and Challenges

Speaker 13 36:05

how shift workers get paid their shift allowance and how , once they're on a night shift , they should be paid their whole shift without being docked on meal break or lunch break ? Do you know anything about that ?

Speaker 2 36:21

Well , that would all come down to your own enterprise bargaining agreement in relation to depending on where you were working and who you were working for , and what had been signed off .

Speaker 1 36:31

Have a word with the employer and let them know where we're up to and what the arrangements are . I would have thought Pete , but everybody's going to be different about that . Sam . Shift worker my sister works at Subway , starts three o'clock in the morning , finishes at three o'clock in the afternoon , monday through Friday . Her body clock is thrown out and can't sleep on the weekends Three o'clock in the morning .

Speaker 2 36:52

Don't get me wrong . This conversation I was having with our sleep expert . What organisation starts people at anywhere between 1am and 4am in the morning , like 5am ? I can understand 5 or 6 , but you shouldn't be starting at 2 or 3am in the morning . It's just the worst possible time for your body .

Speaker 1 37:13

Well , good luck with your resistor , sam . Pass on our very best . Now this is Australia Overnight with Tony McManus . Oh very cool , maxi , oh smooth , as If you would like to join the program wherever you are right across Australia through the Ace Radio Network . 3aw here in Melbourne town . It might be 5AA in Adelaide . Hello to everybody in South Australia and our great friends , it is still Wednesday night , of course , in South Australia , in WA , I beg your pardon . 133693 . He's hung over for just a little bit . The great Roger Sutherland , a former police officer . Are you missing it yet , really ?

Speaker 2 38:04

You leave me to write the jokes here Really .

Speaker 1 38:08

So not even a little after 40 years .

Speaker 2 38:12

Not one tiny little bit .

Speaker 1 38:14

So when you and I are watching the news and you're saying that's the stuff that's going down , do you not think to yourself , oh , thank God I'm not there , you wouldn't want to be there and wring a little neck from time to time ?

Speaker 2 38:27

No , because it's just so different now Tone , it's just so so different . All kudos to the people that are starting now , because they are , they're starting it and it's the way it is now and I'm sure in 40 years' time they'll all be looking back on that time going oh they were the good old days , you know , but for me , no , our values have parted company in a very , very big way .

Speaker 1 38:54

But we don't want to be anybody , whether you're working as a police officer or a nurse or doing a radio program or whatever you're doing , you would hope that you leave the role or leave your employment after a certain period of time , feeling pretty good about that .

Speaker 2 39:14

I feel exceptionally . I'm a very , very , very proud policeman . I've always been a very proud policeman , right the way to my very , very last day , last day . Right , very , very proud policeman . But my values , between my own beliefs and what I thought Shifted no , mine didn't change , but the organization's changed in a very , very big way and I'm not comfortable with the way it's going . I have to leave and I think that's the best way to put it diplomatically as I possibly could . Ptsd , depression and anxiety is pretty horrendous , and it was . I dealt with the job really , really well and it wasn't caused by the actual job itself , and that's the problem that I have . One day I'll talk all about it . Not ready yet , I'm still not quite ready to talk about it , but there are .

Speaker 1 40:10

So many people you see it on the news now some people , one in particular . I won't go into the details , but it's probably still before tribunals or whatever , except that I felt for this particular person who said it was so excruciating going through that inquiry , that investigation , for so many years . Yes , they're almost depleted of life and energy , they're totally depleted of life and energy .

Speaker 2 40:35

They're totally depleted . A lot of people don't realise this and this is something that's really important to highlight , that I can highlight . When there's a police shooting , generally , I mean , it's a tragedy that the person's lost his life Of course it is , but we lose a number of police people out of that as well . Generally , we lose the shooter at the same time , whoever it was . We generally lose them as an officer of the law , because they really struggle with going forward with that and the investigation and the way they're treated and the way things go on . It's a tragedy .

Speaker 1 41:10

What about kids ? Young people , I shouldn't say kids . What about young people 17 , 18 , 19 , 20 years of age who knock on mum and dad's bedroom door and they say come in , I'm thinking about joining the police service . Yeah well , my daughter did that , yeah .

Speaker 2 41:25

What was your reaction when that happened ? I was proud as punch . It was six years ago . You had no qualms about that decision . I was obviously worried because it's my daughter . You know what I mean . Like I was worried that my baby's going to go out there and have to deal with the filth of society and that was always very concerning for me . But I support her , however I can possibly support her in actually doing that . And again , I live vicariously through her now because she's going through what I went through and it's exciting , and her husband as well . They absolutely love the job , absolutely love it doing what they're doing , because they're the new breed .

Speaker 1 42:04

They are the new breed . Dennis in Adelaide , hello .

Speaker 15 42:09

Hello Tony , hi Roger , roger , I'd just like to ask you a couple of things . You said earlier , of course , about 2 am start in the morning . Yes , now , I worked 40 years at Tip Top Bakery but in the last 20 years they used to make us start at 2 o'clock in the morning and we'd get all our bread loaded on the van , we'd go out and get a whole lot of work done before the supermarkets opened and , yeah , probably be knocked off by about 11.30 . But yeah , that was good , starting at two in the morning because you had no one else to worry about .

Speaker 2 42:48

Now , this is tip-top in .

Speaker 1 42:51

Dandenong no in Adelaide . In Adelaide , sorry Okay .

Speaker 2 42:57

Didn't have a lot of police cars about 40 years ago .

Speaker 1 42:58

That was there swapping newspapers for the bricks , like they did in 10 . Yeah , that's right .

Speaker 2 43:02

Do you remember that ?

Speaker 15 43:04

Yeah , I used to get finger bands off us too . That's right .

Speaker 2 43:07

Anyway , moving along from that , when you said tip-top , it just flashed me back to then . Anyway , Horses , you enjoyed that . My argument to that would be if someone's got to start at 2 and they can finish at 11 , that is the worst possible circadian disruption that you could possibly get . But when else could you start ? Like you couldn't start at 6 pm and finish because you'd have nothing to do until 2 am . Obviously , you started at 2 am because you needed to .

Speaker 1 43:39

That's the very great point , dennis , if I can just go back to Den . So that was the business model , dennis , would you ?

Speaker 15 43:47

foresee a better way of doing it . Well , not really . The company's idea was not . We had keys and that for shops and they said right , we want to get all the service stations and all the small cars done early , and then supermarkets would start letting us in the back door from five o'clock onwards .

Speaker 2 44:07

There you go .

Speaker 15 44:08

And then you'd do schools and that , after you'd done your supermarkets and Hungry Jacks and them , and then you'd head back and once you're finished you go home .

Speaker 2 44:17

So there is in that industry . There is no other way of actually doing that . I can understand that , starting at two , loading the truck because the bread's ready , and then you go one , two , three and round you go . But my argument is starting at that time for people that run a 24-7 environment . I've got a client who's a truck driver who delivers fuel . Now he starts at 2 am or 3 am in the morning or 1 am . Why does he need to start at that time ? Because it's a 24-hour operation . They should be starting at 6 pm or 7 pm and finishing at 7 am . So if you're on night shift , you start at 7pm , you finish at 7am and you're still doing the same run . It's a bum in a seat working that 24-7 , whereas in your position there , dennis , you're someone who you couldn't start at 6pm because there'd be nothing to do until you started . The work's not available .

Speaker 1 45:10

No , there's no work there to do that Dennis does any of that make sense ?

Speaker 15 45:16

No , no , it's good . Yeah , no , I was thinking so , Roger , would you class starting at 2 in the morning and finishing about 11 ? Would I have been classed as a shift worker ?

Speaker 2 45:26

Absolutely . Can I just say let's classify shift work . If you work any two hours outside of about 8am to 5pm , you're a shift worker . So if you're working two hours outside of 8am to 5pm , call yourself a shift worker , so you are absolutely a shift worker starting at that time and in fact that's a night shift worker by definition .

Speaker 15 45:54

You get so much work done before anyone else was on the road , and how nice ?

Speaker 2 45:58

was it driving to work when there's absolutely no one around ? Nobody around .

Speaker 1 46:06

Now , Dennis , and also to you , Roger . If you were in Rotary or you were in Toastmasters now , you would both be fined . What did we say ? You've both said at 2am in the morning , and you've pinged us .

Speaker 2 46:17

You've pinged us on it . It can only be morning 1 , 2am .

Speaker 1 46:22

Yeah , 2am .

Speaker 2 46:23

I've been so careful I've been repeating that in my head too .

Speaker 1 46:26

Dennis , good to hear from you , and best of the season for you , dennis .

Speaker 15 46:30

Have a good Christmas , man , you got it . Good on you mate .

Speaker 1 46:32

Okay , we'll do this . Plenty of calls coming through . Are you happy to stay for a bit longer ? Yeah , sure , a bit of fun this time of the year . 133693 . If you are waiting , we'll get to you as soon as we can If you have a thought , question or an idea . Lots of texts coming through , one in particular ending in 9 morning . Am is morning .

Speaker 2 46:56

Okay , so someone's Team , tony . Thank you , team .

Speaker 1 46:59

Tony , just the one . We'll take more of your calls the other side , for Australia Overnight . I'm Tony Mack . Hello to you Just writing there , dan . Filth of society . Filth of society , danny , in Port Augusta . Go ahead , hi , danny .

Speaker 11 47:15

G'day Roger , g'day Tony Mack . Merry Christmas to you both . Thanks for everything . All your advice this year , Roger , it's been very helpful . You're a wealth of knowledge when it comes to this .

Speaker 2 47:28

Oh , Danny , you're a gem . Thank you so much . I appreciate it .

Speaker 11 47:33

Just talking a touch on Christmas , though . Oh , danny , you're a gem . Thank you so much , I appreciate it . Just talking to touch on Christmas , though . So last year was actually the first year that I had to do work , christmas and all the public holidays for a long time , because it was my first year in security and same sort of thing Like first one in you're not allowed to sort of take time off . Yep , because you're sort of new to the take time off , because you sort of need to drop in . You haven't recruited whatever . This year I put my hand up because , yeah , so I've got Christmas Day , boxing Day off , just because , even though my kids are out , it's like the family thing wasn't the same without me there . You know what I mean . So that was sort of a pining for me to make sure that I had the time off this year .

Speaker 11 48:13

So it does make a difference , especially if you've been sitting in a way

Shift Work and Holiday Struggles

Speaker 11 48:20

where the kids have always known you to be there for Christmas , and then there's the one year where you're not there and it makes a difference to their lives . You know what I mean .

Speaker 2 48:29

How did that make ? You feel , danny ? How does that make you feel like the days that you weren't there ? Don't you just miss your family terribly on that day ?

Speaker 11 48:39

Look , Christmas is one of the holidays I really enjoy . Hang on , let me just I'll pull it over there . I'll just start to take it off .

Speaker 1 48:45

Yeah , that's better , Danny . Thank you .

Speaker 11 48:47

Yeah , yeah , christmas is the one time of year where it's one of my favorite times of the year as well . As the kids were growing up and it was that excitement and you're building stuff and all that sort of stuff when they're little kids , you knew that you had at least a couple of days to not have to think about what I've got to do tomorrow , for example . But when I was chefing , when I was in hospitality in my early years , for example , like you said , you'd jump at every opportunity just because the money was there as well . Apprentice chef , you were getting , you know , worth 140 bucks in your first year . So if you'll work to Christmas Day chef , well then you almost doubled your pay packet in one day . It does make a difference , but as you get older it does become more poignant to have that time off , I believe . And yeah , it was a bit harder last year because of the fact I wasn't there and we had to do Christmas a separate time . But you know .

Speaker 2 50:00

And it's not the same , is it , danny ? When you do it on another day . I always say to my shift working people just pick another day and do it on another day and make the most of that day . But I know in my heart it's not the same as on Christmas Day .

Speaker 11 50:19

Yeah , well , I've always been in some sort of shift work throughout my working life , whether it was working for myself as a chauffeur or chefing , or now in security , blah , blah , blah . It's always been that sort of weird hours where you don't have the same breaks that everyone else has Like . So , for example , one of my daughters works at a school , so she's got X amount of time off over Christmas . My other daughter you know they close the office down between you know Christmas Eve and sort of New Year's , the 2nd of January , for heaven's sake , and so they've got that time off . They're spending that time together . And then , yeah , it is an obvious hole when the person that you expect to be there is not there for them , sort of thing . Yep .

Speaker 2 51:02

I hear the point . It's very difficult .

Speaker 1 51:05

Danny , in terms of those hours when you were working in hospitality , would you ever go back to it ? Could you see yourself living that life again , as you did all those years ago , I mean ?

Speaker 11 51:16

technically I'm still sort of . I mean , at this point in time I'm doing eye patrol , so it's the same sort of thing , but in a different environment . I got out of hospitality basically because it was a new evolve coming , you know , and I wanted to do foams and fancy stuff and that wasn't my training back in the pubs and clubs days and I had a marriage breakdown as well . That didn't help . But yeah , it was just a combination of different things and I just wanted to get out . I'd done it for 28, . You know , nearly 28 years , and was just like no , I want to find something where I can still do similar sort of working hours , because I've always been that night time , afternoon night time sort of entity , if you want A night out .

Speaker 11 52:08

Yeah , the night out type thing , and even when I was chauffeuring doing the early morning airport runs and things like that . It's easier for me to work through A bit like the bread delivery guy when the schools and Hungry Jackson things are opening or it's last of the day thing , running people to the airport and stuff like that . That was the end of my day . I knew after I did those , by 9 o'clock I'd be in bed . You know what I mean .

Speaker 1 52:36

Yeah , good on you , danny . Compliments of the season . Have a great time . We'll talk to you again soon .

Speaker 11 52:42

Yeah , no worries , are you still going to Clare ?

Speaker 1 52:44

Watch this space . Danny , Watch this space .

Speaker 11 52:48

No worries , mate , if you do find yourself in South Australia , don't forget that Burwood Museum up in the Motor Museum up in Burwood , we talked about it earlier in the year as well .

Speaker 1 52:57

Yeah , we did Keep in touch . Nice to talk to you on the program . Thank you , 133693 . An interesting one here , tony and Roger from Hong Kong . This is from David . He's in Hong Kong , he's up there . My question is it's only a three-hour trip from Australia this time , finding it very hard to get back into the same sort of rhythm . Jet lag Is jet lag different ?

Speaker 2 53:19

again . No , it's the same , same deal . It's exactly the same and what we do .

Speaker 1 53:27

What he's talking about here is three hours time difference between where he is in Melbourne here now and Hong Kong , but it's the same if you're going to Perth , it's three hours time , exactly right , and that can be equally as weirdly often as debilitating as a long haul flight .

Speaker 2 53:39

Oh , totally , it is as soon as you start crossing time zones . And I can tell you now the reason why David is really struggling with this is because he travelled east , so he advanced his circadian rhythm clock instead of going back into it . You'll notice that a lot of people that travel , so he should have gone to New Zealand , no , yes , and come home from New Zealand . Yeah , right , or come home . This is why a lot of people really really struggle coming home from Europe and suffer for a week afterwards , whereas when you go to Europe , you're fine . Now , the other way to look at this too , to answer David's question , what he needs to be doing is getting up early , getting the early

Adjusting to Shift Work and Holidays

Speaker 2 54:19

light and eating at the normal breakfast , lunch and dinner times here , right , so that he gets back into the rhythm . I want to liken this to when you jump on a plane and you fly to Europe , because when you go to Europe , what do you do ? You don't want to miss out on anything . So you're up early , you go and get breakfast you're out walking all day .

Speaker 2 54:40

You have breakfast , you have lunch , you have dinner and you quickly adjust back into it . But when we come home , we've got the potential there to go . I feel tired . I'm going to lie in bed , whereas you don't do that when you're on holiday . We need to get out in that daylight .

Speaker 1 54:54

That's the killer . So there's a psychological advantage and or disadvantage .

Speaker 2 54:59

Or is it all physical , the psychological disadvantage , because you don't feel like going out and doing it . But what you need to do is you need to be out and about in the daylight and , if you're tired , have a nap sometime before 2 o'clock , but still get up at 7 , 6 , 7 o'clock in the morning , go through the daytime , get that daylight , eat at the breakfast , lunch and dinner time . Your circadian rhythm counts on those time cues and then you'll be tired and go to bed as it starts getting dark at night , which is really , really important .

Speaker 1 55:31

Wasn't there a deal ? There's a great text here that talks about our peers in the various workforces right across Australia where peers would sort of say , look , I have no children , I have no family , so I will work across holidays .

Speaker 2 55:44

I agree , and this is where I can tell you in the police , a lot of stations will put up on the board here's Christmas Day , here's New Year's Eve , new Year's Day put your names down , because once you don't put your names down , we're going to choose for you . That's what's going to happen and , of course , if you're in a work , so it can be optional . In other words , it can be optional as long as people put their names down for it . Okay , yeah .

Speaker 1 56:08

I maintain some individuals can tend to be the owl or the sparrow Maggie .

Speaker 2 56:13

Yeah , yeah , the owl or the sparrow it is , and that's absolutely correct , and they're called chronotypes .

Speaker 1 56:18

Vern , why don't you say hello to the wonderful Roger while he's here in the studio with me , Vern ?

Speaker 2 56:24

Morning Vern .

Speaker 12 56:26

How are you , roger ? I'm well , thank you , and Mr T and the wonderful Max , I've got to tell you a story about a shift worker . Right yeah , and it's all to do with 3AW .

Speaker 1 56:44

Right . Is this a gag or a story , a real story ?

Speaker 12 56:47

A real story . A real story a .

Speaker 1 56:49

Real story Shift worker .

Speaker 12 56:50

There was three Victorians , which three is the third state , and three Australian warriors soldiers soldiers ? Yeah , they went to war . So it's three . Australians went to war , yeah , to . Moe Meadow yeah , and this is about one particular man that went to war right and the warship had landed is about one particular man that went to war Right and the warship had landed and we came ashore . The fighting was over . For me evermore .

Speaker 15 57:43

Yeah .

Speaker 12 57:45

For I had been wounded . They left me for dead . A stone for my pillow and snow for my bed . Well , the enemy found me . They took me for dead . A stone for my pillow and snow for my bed . Well , the enemy found me . They took me away . They made me a prisoner of war , so they say . But God , in his mercy , was with me one day . The gate was left open and I ran away . I returned to my old home , my dear wife , to see a place that I built for my darling and me . The door was left open and there on the stand I saw a picture of her and a man . The clothes she was wearing told me a very sad tale . My darling was wearing a new bridal veil . I knew she'd be happy if she never learnt Missing in action , for I had returned A vagabond dreamer . Forever I'll roam . There was nobody there to welcome me home . The face of my darling no more shall I see . Missing in action . Forever I'll be . Now it goes like this , yeah .

Speaker 6 58:56

Uh-oh .

Speaker 1 59:08

Has the production value . It's great .

Speaker 12 59:11

The moral to the story is what he thought was his wife that got married . It was actually her twin sister .

Speaker 1 59:24

Oh no , there you go , and that's happened to all of us at some point . Vern , bless your heart and soul . Merry Christmas to you , vern . Gav , we'll come to you and we'll come to you as well . 133-693 . Gav , we'll come to you in just a tick . I just want to ask you this because I'm sure it'll be fascinating to the listeners right across the three great states . There's a 3AW in Melbourne , 5AA in Adelaide and , of course , 6pr in Perth because I think all of us are impacted by that . The frustration seems to be an ongoing theme for many callers , and we hear it

Police Frustration and Shift Work Benefits

Speaker 1 1:00:01

where somebody offends , re-offends , re-offends because they've been quote out on bail . Yes , from an officer's point of view , in your experience , what commentary would you have about that ?

Speaker 2 1:00:24

Yeah , I know for a fact that the beat officers , the cops on the street , are as frustrated as you could possibly get A lot of the time they're tied up for so long processing offenders . You've got to remember this time takes so it takes them off the street . Not only does it take them off the street , but there's overtime , it takes them away from their families . It impacts on their health . They're taking a lot of time to do a lot of paperwork to present these people to a court to only see them just walk back out again and literally thumb their noses and give the Sometimes inside a very short period of time , straight away , just walk back out again and literally thumb their noses and give the bird , sometimes inside a very short period of time .

Speaker 2 1:00:54

Straight away . Yeah , the other thing is too the police are tied up so heavily with mental health patients as well and going to hospitals , having to sit there and wait and wait and wait , only to have a doctor release them . By the time they've got back to the station , the person's missing again to have a doctor release them . By the time they've got back to the station , the person's missing again . We are being failed dismally by the judicial system . Now I want to be quite clear so that everyone really understands this the police can only work with the tools that they're given . Very important for people to understand that being the law the law . Now the laws are made by who ?

Speaker 1 1:01:30

The government , yeah , which is what I keep saying , and people get frustrated by that notion .

Speaker 2 1:01:33

No , and the magistrates and judges are working to the law , the statutes , what are put in place , and I think it's harsh to take it out on the police . And the police are the ones that are out there that are sacrificing so much to do the job and really give it , to do the absolute best that they can for the victim , to help them and to get the offender to court , but they're not . Now , one of the biggest problems that we have today , in my opinion , is the consequence . There's no consequence . And if there's no consequence , why would they ? Why are they ? They're doing what they're doing now ? Because there's no consequence . And if there's no consequence , why would they ? Are they ? They're doing what they're doing now because there's no consequence . The point that I do want to make again is it's not the fault of the police If people think that the police have an apathetic attitude . I think that's unfair , because they're doing their absolute best , but they're burnt out , continually taking those offenders to court and then getting no result for it All right .

Speaker 1 1:02:35

Anecdotally , could you imagine a scenario where , under certain circumstances , there might be a DO , in other words a drive-on , where they see , they recognise .

Speaker 2 1:02:49

Yep , it's not worth it .

Speaker 1 1:02:50

It's not worth it .

Speaker 2 1:02:51

Yep , absolutely , wow , it's not worth it .

Speaker 1 1:02:53

It's not worth it . Yep , absolutely . Wow , Gav hello . Hey , gentlemen , how you going ? Well , where are you , Gavin ? I'm making a delivery out of Montrose at the moment .

Speaker 2 1:03:04

Okay , yes , way out in the east .

Speaker 9 1:03:09

Yeah , I do afternoon shift . I start at 3.30 , 4 o'clock in the afternoon . We could do 10 to 12 hours or sometimes 14 hours . That's part of our shift . But yeah , I like doing afternoon shifts . There's no one on the road . There's nobody on the road at the moment . You know we get 30% loading and stuff like that . Cool yeah , so end of the week and it pays off pretty well . Yeah , it's a great job . We deliver to places where you can't get deliveries during the day and stuff like that .

Speaker 2 1:03:43

This is the reason why , see , I was an afternoon shift boy as well , gav . I loved working afternoon shift . It was always really really just the best time because it gave me the opportunity to do what I wanted to do at home in the morning and then go to work . So I got to do my thing and then they could have a piece of me in the afternoon . I really enjoyed that . But the question that I would pose to you is would you do that shift if you weren't getting a 30% ? It was a 30% , I think you said loading , loading for working . I think a lot of people work shift work because of the percentage that they get on top of normal pay . The pay is the bonus of working shift work .

Speaker 9 1:04:23

Yeah , I can understand that , but it virtually pays my rent .

Speaker 2 1:04:28

Yes , that's right . And also it gives you the opportunity to be at home . Now , I don't know what your family status is , but it gives you the opportunity to be around and make those appointments during the day . There is a massive upside to shift work as well . As much as it causes us health issues , there's a massive upside being able to get into a specialist or a doctor or go and see a physician . It's great . It's great , it's fantastic . Every time you ring , they go oh , can you do 9 o'clock ? Yep , I'll be there .

Speaker 1 1:04:56

Yeah , well , I had one yesterday morning 8 . Yep At St John of God , yep , 8 . It was fantastic . No one there . So good on you , gav . You look after yourself and stay happy . Best for the Christmas and New Year break . You too , guys . Thank you , bye-bye .

Speaker 1 1:05:14

Well done you . It is important . Look at these texts coming in . There's one over here and I won't go into all the details except that says it's a text ending in 862 . I won't mention the areas because it may be before the courts , I don't know . But a particular place , an 11-year-old allegedly machete someone's finger , also had a history of home invasion , car theft and a few other crimes . It would appear nothing or very little can be done because of age . Is that a thing ? Pretty much .

Speaker 2 1:05:46

An 11-year-old makes it very , very difficult to process an offender and put them before the courts . Now I'm out of touch with the actual ages , of course , but what on earth at 11 ? 11. ?

Speaker 2 1:05:59

Well , as you know , I know , oh , I'm well and truly they're driving cars at 11 , you know and we're talking home invasions here car thefts , driving around in cars at 11 years of age . And you know what annoys me ? And I'm going to say this it annoys me when people say in social media , in forums , that I see where are the parents . These parents are trying to do as much as they possibly can . Every time they're trying to do something and these kids are just out there still doing it and parents are at their absolute wit's end . I know police people that have got children that rebel and they end up as offenders doing the wrong thing as well . Now , good people Heartbreaking , and they're doing their utmost best . It's very naive for people to type in forums where are the parents , and it's also very naive for people to say send the parents and then back to where they came from . It's glib .

Speaker 2 1:06:55

It's ridiculous commentary . Ridiculous because these parents are not . Where are the kids . Where are the kids ? How come you don't know where your kids are ? These parents are doing everything that they possibly can in a lot of circumstances .

Speaker 1 1:07:09

In your experience , in my experience .

Speaker 2 1:07:11

Occasionally , there would be the amount of times that I would knock on someone's door because their 15 or 16 year old has broken into school , stolen cars , yeah , and the parents are just horrified .

Speaker 1 1:07:20

They thought the kid was in bed ? Yeah , what about issues for mums and dad , parents of a certain vintage drugs , alcohol and therefore kids can run riot ?

Speaker 2 1:07:29

Yeah , some of that there is some of that and people that have these kids and the kids are off running riot themselves and doing their own thing because the parents can't look after themselves . Bottom line .

Speaker 1 1:07:42

Where are we going to , Maggie hello ?

Speaker 5 1:07:46

Hello Tony and Roger Morning Maggie , yeah , so I'm very , very tired .

Speaker 1 1:07:54

Oh , that's okay . How can we help you this morning ?

Speaker 5 1:07:56

No , no , no , you can't help me . I don't think . But you know , just moving on from perhaps the owll and the Sparrow , which I'm a firm believer in , and you could go back to the caveman era , eons ago I guess . But also my recollection there were a couple of very well-known artists , perhaps French , and they shared a bed , but one worked by day and the other worked by night . Have you heard ?

Speaker 2 1:08:55

of that one , no .

Speaker 5 1:09:03

No , well , I'm pretty sure I don't recall who they are or were .

Speaker 1 1:09:11

So we're just doing a search now , having a look at the eight others who made masterpieces in bed . No , I don't think that's the one we want , thank you very much Maxi .

Speaker 3 1:09:18

That's different . Again , no swapping Lennon and .

Speaker 1 1:09:20

Yoko . Thank you Well , john Lennon of course and Yoko .

Speaker 5 1:09:25

No , no , no , no , no , no , no , no , no , no , no no .

Speaker 2 1:09:28

Okay , maggie , your owls and sparrows that you were talking about there . We have chronotypes that we fall into , and some people are morning larks and some people are night owls , which means people get up later and they are awake later at night and they tend to thrive in that environment . And then there's our people who like to get up early in the morning and they want to go to bed early , and they're known as a morning lark . And in shift work , the morning lark is the one that really suffers on night shift , whereas you know , if you're a morning lark type of person , it's very , very difficult for you to get up and go and work a night shift or an afternoon shift , because you want to go to sleep by about eight , nine o'clock at night , whereas the night owls tend to cope with night shift and also afternoon shifts , so much better .

Speaker 1 1:10:21

Maggie , thank you for that . If you're sending texts through , you can do that . 133693 with the text line 0477 693 693 . It's about Tony 0-4-7-7-6-9-3-6-9-3 . It's about Tony , Mackey and Roger . It's about upbringing from birth . Do not kick kids out of home early ages . Bring up with responsibility as a toddler . Keep it up Parents . Look after your kids so that they can look after you . Conditioning's got a lot to .

Speaker 2 1:10:45

That's the wish , though that's the ideal , but I know people that have literally raised two children in exactly the same home .

Speaker 1 1:10:53

One goes off the rails .

Speaker 2 1:10:54

One goes absolutely off the rails and one's fantastic . I think it generally comes down to who they're associating with and how do you control that ?

Speaker 1 1:11:02

I can remember years ago hosting an overnight program it was a daytime program , 6pm in Perth . This would have been the early part of the 2000s and Lady rang and expressed exactly that . That had three children maybe four from memory and the three were going along beautifully . One was a terror , and so it was the same environment , same rules , same regulations . One was a terror , and in a lot of trouble .

Speaker 2 1:11:32

And bless Nurse for her text message . I totally understand what she's saying and also I want to acknowledge all the other texts that Nursen sent because I have actually read them too . But this one here yes , I agree that it's about upbringing from birth , but that's flawed as well with people who have literally raised a number of children multiple children in exactly the same circumstances , and one of them has literally just taken the wrong route somewhere 133693, .

Speaker 1 1:12:01

Come and join us the other side of this Reading some emails coming through and you can do that overnights at 3AW . Yeah , overnights at 3AW , I had to think there for a moment . Sorry At 3AWcomau . This is from today in Melbourne town . How do we fix this when the government fix issues with youth crime ? So presumably you know you and I have talked about this off air , but I keep saying that it's about the legislation . The laws have to reflect more so the expectations of community and that's got to be a consideration .

Speaker 2 1:12:37

Now , this is really important because politicians are elected by constituents in their areas In a democracy , in a democracy , and it's those constituents that have an expectation on the politicians to do the right thing , and they're not protecting the people that are under their constituency , or whatever the word is . You know what I mean . So I think politicians have got a lot to answer for with that , and they need to collectively fix this problem . It's getting out of control . Well , it is out of control , but they need to re-arrest it . Do you remember ? Singapore cleaned up their problems . They cleaned up their litter of issues . I remember , going back probably 30 , 40 years ago , that you dropped a cigarette butt in Singapore Chewing gum , chewing gum , you couldn't even chew in the street and drop a cigarette butt and you really paid the price for it . And what did they do ? They cleaned it up .

Speaker 1 1:13:35

Right , and that was because the powers were there to just allow the police to do their job , whereas now it's not there and they were supported in that and it was encouraged , totally supported , and presumably it's a cultural shift or there was a shift in the thinking , the culture from each and every one of us , the vocal minority .

Speaker 2 1:13:56

Although they've done the right thing . You would have seen in the news this week about you're not allowed to wear masks at the demonstrations and things like that . Now Look , why does it take so long for this to happen ? This has been going on for years .

Speaker 1 1:14:10

Yeah , it frustrates everybody . There's a great text here . It says mate , I come from a great family . I've been at 14 years old . It was the alcohol that started downfall .

Speaker 2 1:14:19

Yes , at 14 . At 14 . Yeah , yeah .

Speaker 1 1:14:23

Yeah , Rob's in Richmond . Hello Robert . Yes , good morning Tony and Roger Good .

Speaker 2 1:14:30

Yes , good morning , tony , and .

Speaker 14 1:14:31

Roger . Good morning Rob . If I may , roger , can we play hypothetical ? Yeah , let's pretend you're the judge .

Speaker 2 1:14:39

Yes . I'll propose two cases to you . Yep .

Speaker 14 1:14:45

One is I kidnapped someone . I get three people to surround them and I say I'm going to cut your fingers off unless you give us $20,000 . And in the process I take your keys and go and ransack your house . What do you think I should receive ?

Speaker 2 1:15:09

as a sentence . You're the offender . Yes , well , you can only be God . What do I think should be the sentence , or what would the sentence be ?

Speaker 1 1:15:24

Yeah what would be the right penalty for an offence of that nature ? You ?

Speaker 14 1:15:33

mean hypothetically , rob , or what's reality in law as in . If I did that , if he was the judge , what sentence would he give me ?

Speaker 2 1:15:43

What does he think would be ? So you've kidnapped someone , you've cut their fingers off , taken the keys and gone and ransacked their house . Is that what you've done taken the keys and gone and ransacked their house ? Yeah , that's the Is that what you've done ? That's the deal . Yeah , Yep , Well , you've cut the fingers off so you've permanently disabled them . You've ransacked their house and they've been kidnapped and taken out of their- . I would be giving you 25 years for that . 25 years , Yep , Holy doly , that's how you want it . It sent a pretty straight message , Judge Roger there's a show that we had there .

Speaker 1 1:16:13

Let's go quickly to Steve on the road Morning Steve .

Speaker 11 1:16:17

Hi , good morning . How are you guys ?

Speaker 1 1:16:18

Well , go ahead . We're going

Bail Conditions Clarified

Speaker 1 1:16:19

to run out of time , Steve . Sorry , mate .

Speaker 10 1:16:21

Sorry , just wanted to know like the to pay to get out on bail .

Speaker 2 1:16:31

No , you don't , no , you don't pay to get out on bail .

Speaker 13 1:16:33

No , you don't , no , don't you pay a no , don't you have to pay a no , you're bailed .

Speaker 2 1:16:39

You're bailed on your own undertaking or bailed with conditions . With conditions , it's a misunderstanding from .

Speaker 1 1:16:45

TV .

Speaker 2 1:16:45

Because people think it is On TV . Yeah , you've got to put a surety up . Sometimes people are bailed with a surety , but not with use in this circumstance . So what you do is you get bailed with conditions . So your conditions are that you must be a curfew , you've got to be home between 9pm and 6am , yeah , and that's got to be adhered to .

Speaker 1 1:17:05

And then you breach that straight away , and then therein lies the problem , more the other .