Transforming Health Through Coaching and Conversation

Speaker 1 0:00

Anyone that says that it can be fixed like that , or three sessions at the gym twice a week , or photos here or before or after it's not . It's so much more up here than it is anything else it might be .

Speaker 2 0:16

Shift work can be brutal , but it doesn't have to be . Welcome to a healthy shift . My name is Roger Sutherland , certified Nutritionist , veteran Law Enforcement Officer and 24-7 Shift Worker for almost four decades . Through this podcast , I aim to educate shift workers , using evidence-based methods , to not only survive the rigours of shift work but thrive . My goal is to empower shift workers to improve their health and wellbeing so they have more energy to do the things they love . Enjoy today's show .

Speaker 2 0:52

Welcome to another episode of a Healthy Shift podcast . Another guest episode today . This one is going to be something that is really quite different . It is my absolute pleasure to introduce a true expert in the field of finance , which is Chris Foster-Ramsey . Chris is a finance and mortgage broker and is the owner of Foster-Ramsey Finance . Now I will put a link to his website in the show notes for you . But Chris has a wealth of experience and a passion for helping others to navigate the complexities of lending and borrowing as well . Now , today , he's going to share invaluable insights that will empower us all to make informed financial decisions .

Speaker 2 1:35

But this is different , and the reason being is because Chris and my paths crossed , because he reached out to me and spoke to me on an informal level . He was really struggling with his mental health , nutrition , body image , everything else that goes with that , and what we did was we had brunch one day and we sat down and I just stripped it right down for him , and what I want you to hear today through the podcast is how those steps absolutely changed his life . We all think we have to go to the gym and we have to smash ourselves in the gym to change our body composition . What we don't understand the biggest problem that we have today is that it's a whole umbrella issue of problems that sit over the top of nutrition , and when you fix those umbrella of problems , nutrition actually takes care of itself . Now , this today is going to give you an insight into my coaching with someone , because Chris will talk to you about the things that I said and did and the impacts that they actually had on his life .

Speaker 2 2:41

Now , credit to where credit's due to Chris , because Chris actually started putting little implementations of little strategies in place . Let's just talk to Chris and let's find out exactly what it's all about , but you're going to hear a whole range of things that he has changed over time and it is my pleasure to welcome you to the show today Mr Chris Foster-Ramsey Chris . How are you today ? Yeah , going well . Show today , mr Chris Foster-Ramsay Chris . How are you today ?

Speaker 1 3:05

Yeah , going well , Thanks .

Speaker 2 3:06

Roger , I'm really , really humbled and very , very grateful that you've come onto the show today . I've already told people all about who you are and what it is , but would you like to just tell us in your own words , just tell our listeners , a little bit about yourself , who you are and what you actually do ? Sure no worries .

Speaker 1 3:23

So at the highest level , I'm a business owner . I'm a finance and mortgage broker . I've been in the banking and lending industry for almost 20 years . I run a business and I have a beautiful son , hamish , and a beautiful wife , fiona , and that's what I do in my spare time . Really , at a more granular level , we can go into that if you want .

Speaker 2 3:40

Absolutely , because that's the very reason why I've got you onto the podcast . Now , let's just put a disclaimer at the very beginning of this , too you are not a client of mine and you've never been a client of mine either . So what we're doing is we're actually just talking about how friendships , the conversations and the impact that those conversations have actually had on you as an individual who was really struggling in yourself , with your help , not being confused and it's a very cloudy area in this space . So are you prepared to sort of open yourself up and be vulnerable ? I think it's important that you do , if you're able to , to actually talk about your health , as to where it was right up until the stage of where we actually sat down and had a conversation for the first time .

Speaker 1 4:26

Yeah , sure , I'm okay with that . I think there's quite a story that I think people that own businesses can relate to busy people , people that have highly paid , highly stressful jobs where they think they're backed into a corner with that role to be able to provide for family . It all has similar and linking themes that I can share from my personal experience .

Speaker 2 4:45

Thank you , chris . So let's qualify how we met . So we were both doing the radio show with Tony Mack on 3AW I was doing one Wednesday and you were doing the other Wednesday . We'd never crossed paths other than knowing of each other and I know that you were listening to my side of the podcast and finding out exactly what . You ended up reaching out to me . You wanted to catch up and have a coffee and I'm going to be brutally honest here and say I thought he's going to try and come at me with some deal or something's going to happen .

Speaker 1 5:17

That's what I honestly thought was going to happen Knowing that you were hooked up with a competitor of mine later on probably explained that story and set that chapter pretty close .

Speaker 2 5:26

Well , I've got a fantastic broker and also a financial planner and it's going extremely well for me , in fact , just taking carriage of my own superannuation as a result of , as you know , I left Victoria Police five weeks ago and it's been quite a journey over the last five weeks trying to get my grubby mitts on the money that was mine that I put it into , but you will obviously understand exactly that it's a convoluted process to try and get that done . We got there , but anyway , before you actually reached out to me , talk about what you were actually experiencing in yourself and how it was bogging you down in your actual life . Yeah , okay , so if we go back to .

Speaker 1 6:07

I've had the business , been self-employed since 2011 and had varying forms of the business across a number of different markets within the same vertical and business partners along the way , and went back to owning the business myself close to 10 years ago . When you go out on your own and you need to start chasing the outcome and the customer service and delivering for the customers , but also being able to provide a wealthy in terms of what I thought at the time was health and wealth and it just ended up being stress , anxiety and accommodating

Personal Growth Through Adversity

Speaker 1 6:38

. The week after I turned 40 . I turned 40 on the 11th of September and on the 17th of September , which was also my brother's birthday , which wasn't a great present for him I was admitted to Knox Private Hospital emergency with a suspected heart attack from stress and anxiety just pushing myself too far . That was a real eye-opener for me . And then , shortly after that , probably in the next couple of months , when I was in the recovery mode from that , I had two staff , so I was chasing payroll as well . As you know , recovery mode from that , I had two staff , so I was chasing payroll as well as needing to generate money to pay for payroll as well as sustain a relatively competitive business at the time . So if we then fast forward through the recovery of that time , staff just wanting to move around to other roles and other positions lost two really key staff members , which meant that I took that pretty personally and pretty hard , and in hindsight it wasn't that at all . It was just that they wanted to move on with their careers . They're both very successful people and they're doing really well . Now the decision that I was faced with was either to keep pushing on and become more unhealthy or really just stop . Put a line in the sand as to really just working out what the problem was . It took me probably the best part of 2 years to actually work out what the problem was and I rolled back the business to probably from running at like 120 , 130 , 150% of capacity , rolled it back to running at about 50 or 60% , and the financial hit on that was massive .

Speaker 1 7:58

The same way that I decided to do that , I also booked a trip overseas which was 18 months away , and it was deliberately 18 months away because it meant that it was the culmination , at that point , of rest and reset . So what happened was I worked on myself in a number of ways and I'm really stuck . And it wasn't really until three or four weeks before I left for that trip that things sort of come together . There was an incident where I was called out to a very confronting first aid scene and that really , just that , was a hard , a really hard thing to be at and a control alt delete for everything that I knew and learned .

Speaker 1 8:34

Shortly after that I engaged with a number of people and thought it's still not under control , my own being still not under control , so what else do I need to do ? And then , just through serendipitous meetings , one of which was with you , worked out that I was pretty lost at the time and needed not only some help from a psychiatrist to reset but also needed to . And I'm sure we'll go into what the meeting was about , but the meeting with you really was a catalyst to just getting me ready to go overseas for that trip . So I went overseas for that trip , shut the business for the best part of three months , was offline , out of the business world for seven weeks Again .

Speaker 1 9:06

The financial hit on that was massive and still recovering from that . But I wouldn't be here today , I wouldn't have the team that I've got and I certainly wouldn't be setting the direction that I've got for the next 12 months to two years . Again , I think I'd be in a very different place had I not had that intervention and time . Anyone that says that it can be fixed like that , or three sessions at the gym twice a week , or photos here or before or after , it's not . It's so much more up here than it is anything else in my view .

Speaker 2 9:34

You know you're preaching to the converter there in relation to that , because that was literally what our conversation was about . To revisit some of those points that I would really like to go back over with you , chris , when you had the episode that ended up in Knox Private Hospital with a heart attack , that was stress-related because you were pushing yourself to the nth degree , you were working 150% in the business and 0% on Chris Foster Ramsey Would you agree with that ? Absolutely yeah , I would , because you felt that that was the way that it was to go , and this forms part of our conversations moving forward too , obviously . So I'm just setting the scene here at the moment . So you had that , but then what actually happened was , as a result of that , over time , you lost two key staff members . Now the way you looked at that was you were offended because they walked away and left you up in arms about what are you doing . But in life we can actually turn around and look at that as hey , how good is this ? They're ready to move on . I've trained them to a certain stage , and not only have I trained them or got them to a certain stage in the business and supported them in that . Look how successful they are now , and I played a part in that . So that's another way of

Mindset and Emotional Eating Insights

Speaker 2 10:51

mindset .

Speaker 2 10:51

Today we're going to talk about mindset a lot . All right , because it is , as you know , all around mindset . Now I think let's talk about your eating and what you were actually doing around your . I'm going to call it nutrition anyway , because how you were fueling your body don't go into the after . I want you to just go into the way you actually were , because you spent money on quite a few things in the lead up , looking for an answer , didn't you ? Can you just talk to our listeners about what you were doing , because I know so many people will relate to your own journey , because I get clients coming to me all the time that have had 99% match to what you were actually talking about .

Speaker 1 11:35

Okay , well , I mean there's a few different parts there . There's one part is the alternative therapy that I was using to seek for as a sugar hit to solve the problem for really that afternoon and the problem would come back , and by that I mean it was alternative therapy in terms of the magnesium desensitization tanks , the float tanks , the float tanks yep yeah , they put you in a good headspace for the problem , but then you walk out of those and that then rolls into another management therapy or something else that it's hard to maintain .

Speaker 1 12:04

The other thing I was doing was doing a lot of massage , but it was not dodgy massage .

Speaker 2 12:10

You don't have to clarify that . Yeah , what you were trying to do was relax your body through massage .

Speaker 1 12:16

Yes , that's exactly what I was so . Alternative therapy is to try and fix the body rather than fix it outside in , rather than trying to fix it inside out .

Speaker 2 12:24

Yeah , you're putting Band-aids on wounds .

Speaker 1 13:20

Yeah , totally . And then in terms of food , that was just . You know , we could talk for weeks about my food issues . There would be elements of eating fine around the family and friends , but a lot of secret eating , a lot of eating to just eat my way through emotions and then the guilt would come and I don't think that that ever really goes away . It just becomes more of a management plan around that , and fresh food and hydration really wasn't important . There was a lot of my bill for food not prepared in the house or the home , bought from a supermarket . It was astronomically high .

Speaker 2 13:50

You actually used the term that I would have used anyway , which I was going to wrap it up with , and it was emotional eating . End of story , and a lot of people don't understand the impact that external pressures have on our actual eating behaviors . I know that when I very , very first started coaching , I honestly thought that it was all about set calories , set macros . Once those calories and macros are set , send the person off and it will solve their problems . It wasn't until I started coaching and have coached hundreds of people since that I realized that there's so much in the umbrella . Over the top of that isn't there . There's emotional side , there's body image issues , there's a lot of things that cause a lot of grief and we feel a lot of pressure because we literally don't know where to start . You're overweight , you are really suffering emotionally , you're stressed , things are not going in the right direction and you literally had no idea where to start . But you were prepared to put the Band-Aids on right . I'll go for magnesium float tanks . That'll fix it Fix it for the day , and it was fantastic , but it wasn't consolidated enough to last .

Speaker 2 14:59

The next thing was in backing over that as well . The next thing was that you were emotionally eating In front of people , you'd be that good boy Well , what you perceive was a good boy but then , outside of that , you'd be emotionally upset because of things that were going on and you would eat your way through your emotions as well . And , chris , just so you know , this is incredibly common with a lot of people , and what it does is it puts a coach like me in a job because I can help people with that . As you know , people who go down the line of calorie tracking , macros , before and after photos weigh yourself do this . How have you gone this week ? Scolding someone is not the solution . So you reached out to me in the middle of that Now you'd already started therapy for your own self-development around that and then we met and we sat down at the table in Lower Templestowe .

Speaker 2 15:54

We had a fantastic conversation that day and I came away from that knowing that I touched you . I knew that I had made an impact . I hoped that I had made an impact . Could you talk about that meeting and how it went ? Because we were just catching up , but we really connected . I felt . Yeah , I agree . I really would like you to talk about what you were talking about and what you learnt from me . Give me what your takeaways were that day .

Speaker 1 16:21

Look , I think there were many In terms of the probably the things that I carry with me now . We talked about slowing things down . So slowing time down Now , slowing time down I never really grasped that concept until a couple months ago , before I went away and met with you , and I think that that slowing time down to me now means just eating slower , appreciating what's there , thinking a little bit more outside the box . So there's an element of just thinking about things , just being more conscious of thoughts . I mean , you tell a great story where you feel that buzz of cortisol coming up inside you . It's about just trying to stop for the moment , and that's what people have been telling me for a long time . You're just going to stop and pause and just breathe , and breathing wasn't working for me .

Speaker 1 17:03

But what I learned from that day was that the example you used was around a bird . So the bird outside . Where's that bird come from today ? Where did it wake up ? Where's it flown from ? What did it eat for breakfast ? Has it had any luck in finding food today ? Are there a family to go back to ?

Speaker 1 17:19

Things like that so just get your mind off to the side really quickly and allows you to reset , and to this day I still use that when I get myself in a bit of a pickle . I also use meditation , the ones available on the app . So I use the Calm app , which is very good . There are other ones that have been recorded personally for me and my circumstances which also have a very impactful way to reset . And the other things we spoke about was really admitting that critical thinking was a problem and critical self was a problem , and so much so that that's something that's stuck with me for a number of years and is now humbly and happily to say that that's now very much tied up in a box off to the side where I don't have to deal with it anymore . It's been dealt with . So things like that .

Speaker 1 17:58

And just really the other thing I suppose I took away from that , it was the eight glasses of water thing , which I just thought was a bit of a crock from some guy that wrote a book .

Speaker 1 18:06

It's not , it's absolutely not , and I think the thing that I learned that day was that if you think you've drunk enough , you probably haven't , so just keep drinking some more .

Speaker 1 18:13

You can't ever drink too much in most circumstances . And then in terms of sleep , someone said to me just early to bed it was someone else that I picked it up from , but the same sort of analogy

Mindful Practices and Personal Transformation

Speaker 1 18:23

is what you talk about a lot of time was if you wake up in the middle of the night , don't open your eyes and look at the clock , because that will pick up the blue light . You think you're awake . So that goes into a whole lot of things that we speak about and you work on with other people . But since I've tried that in terms of turning the clock the other way and I don't know what time it is until it gets sunny outside , it's helped me do the full seven and a half to eight and a half hours sleep . The other thing that I'd done for a long time was try and catch up on sleep . Now very much a convert to . There's only so much sleep you can have before it makes you feel worse .

Speaker 2 18:55

Let's just go back On some of those things that you've talked about there the journey of the bird , and we spoke about this , and I also use an analogy and for people that are listening , they're probably thinking these guys are off their head . What are they talking about ? Another one that I use all the time is the food on our plate , because we do scroll on our phones and we eat and then all of a sudden the food's gone and we haven't even tasted it , we don't know what it is . We've just actually scoffed it . And I talk about if there's a bean on your plate , to think back to the journey of the bean , as to where it came from , as in here's a bean on my plate . I wonder who picked it and I wonder how it got into the bushel and how it got to the processing plant and who top and tailed it . And then I wonder what happened to it , how it got frozen , how the bean felt , and then it went into the truck and then it was transported . It's been sitting in a warehouse and then someone ordered it and it was sitting there in the packet waiting for me to come along and pick it . Now I've cooked it .

Speaker 2 19:51

Now you might think , rog , what are you talking about ? But you get this now because it slows you down in actually thinking and being present in the actual moment while you're doing it , because then suddenly you start to taste the bean instead of it just being something that you've shoved in your mouth , and I think this is something that's really important and this is just one analogy that I talk about in my actual coaching . Now , we talked about that we also discussed with you , because you were talking about the float tank and you were also talking about therapy and you were talking about your eating and so on and so forth , and what we did speak a lot about was just a mindful practice and just challenging your own thought , because you are hypercritical of yourself . I don't know whether you remember , but I remember saying to you do you like bullies ?

Speaker 2 20:45

If someone came to you , if I was sitting at this table and I said to you the thoughts that you were having about yourself , how would you feel ? And you said to me I'd be highly offended and I said so . Why would you do that to yourself ? Because you need to be your greatest supporter and greatest cheerleader . That went in . I saw the actual change in you that you thought my God I am , and if I continue to criticize myself . No one enjoys a bully , do they no ?

Speaker 1 21:16

The great part that I think we can both say here , having seen each other post the overseas trip as well , is that that part has absolutely been dealt with and it's the talk therapy that works for some people wasn't working for me , no , and it was very much an alternative psych therapy that worked for me . But the point is that it got the outcome and I no longer think of the critical bear just there . It's not there anymore . Got the outcome and I no longer think of the critical bear just there , it's not there anymore .

Speaker 2 21:38

It's gone . That's just amazing , because what it does is you've acknowledged that it's there , but you're not giving it any space . And I talk about this with people with body image issues as well . If you stand in front of the mirror butt naked and you look at yourself , you will always find fault , and it doesn't matter if you're a person who's a bodybuilder standing on stage . In fact , you have acknowledged that . You just don't have time for that bullshit from that person , whoever that person is standing on your shoulder . That's being hypercritical and picking on you . Oh , you're no good , chris . You're no good . You've worked out now that that is actually really detrimental to yourself , isn't it ? Now tell me , just on that note , how has that changed everything else in your life ?

Speaker 1 22:27

The outlook is different Getting out of bed , going to bed , family time . I want to tell the story about why and what happened . In terms of what happened was , when I came back from New York , having had this conversation , decided that I needed to be working seven to three or eight to six or whatever it was , but that was the time that I was working . I was not working at home anymore . The home office has been shut for the best part of three or four months and I've moved into a co-working space where I'm now , which is just beautiful . It's a great place to be . There are lots of like-minded individuals here , and it's an office I come in and I leave , and last night , for the first time in a very long time , I left all my tech at work and I went home with my phone and I spent a good couple of hours with my family just watching TV and putting kids to bed .

Speaker 1 23:11

Now there are a lot of people that are employed that say they do that that can't do that . It was a real challenge for me to be able to do that and it's something that , in addition to a whole lot of other stuff around , what my weekend now looks like compared to what it did look like in terms of how clients can contact me and when they can contact me , and automation things that I have in place around being contactable at the right times . If something's urgent and I'm sure you're saying if something's absolutely urgent , fine , deal with it at the time , always available if need be . But it's now choosing who I work with , how I work with them and the terms that I work with them on . It's not a conversation that I would have ever had with myself or being able to be able to communicate prior to 40 , but prior to any time , probably in the last 12 months .

Speaker 2 23:53

Yeah , you really used New York as a line in the sand and I love that you did that . But this is like waiting until after the weekend and starting on Monday . But you didn't do that . It wasn't like you waited until after New York . What you did was you started to dip your toe in the water as well , literally . But you started to dip your toe in the water and you actually started putting just a few little things in place , didn't you ? You just started rethinking and started putting a few little things in the place . I think one of the biggest problems that people make in society today , when they want to make a transitional changes , they look at the clock . They go right , I'm starting Monday , the 30th of September , that's what I'm doing , and from there , I'm going to do this , I'm going to do this , this , this , this , this , and by the end of that week , it's all fallen apart , hasn't it ? It's just all fallen apart , and you've been there yourself . Yeah , I've done that absolutely so .

Speaker 1 24:47

I think that you know I would do that in terms of exercise . I would set a date , I would set a time , I'd set a goal , I'd set an outcome and when I didn't achieve it , it was almost setting myself up for failure . So what I do now is I come to work and I try to be at work between X , y and Z time to do exercise , whether it be the gym or walk or swim . I just try and do something . I have a gym bag in my car and it's ready to go at any time . I might wake up and think I'm going to go to the gym later , but I actually go by the park and go for a walk around the oval because the weather's nice . It's a thing that doesn't have any feelings , it doesn't have any emotion to it , it doesn't have a timeline , it's just a thing . As long as I achieve that thing in the day , then that thing's been achieved .

Speaker 2 25:26

You've identified your values and what you value , and this is another point that I make as well you value your health . What does that look like ? Now ? It doesn't mean you have to go and smash yourself in an F45 to try and change your body . What it means is your value is your health , and you can take a step in that direction . Move , just movement . Now , we talked about that as well , didn't we ? Going to the gym and exercising for body composition , to just getting some form of movement , in taking a step towards your health , change your life , because it changed the way you thought about what you needed to do . You don't have to go to the gym to lift weights , you don't have to go to the pool and swim , you don't have to go for a walk , but what you'll do is you'll do some form of movement every single day , because it's stepping in the direction of your values .

Speaker 2 26:15

There's a whole thing that changed here in relation to everything that you actually did , One of the main things that you did in your past , up to your 40s . What you were doing was you were living in your business 100% , and there was no boundaries between your work and your outside of work time . It was totally consumed in your work time . But what you did was you took control of Chris and you said no , there's got to be boundaries here in place .

Speaker 2 26:46

Now I looked at it when I was talking to you in the first place and I could see that you were so overwhelmed with everything that the best thing to do was to actually break it down into simple tasks . And I told you you will send me a picture every week at the pool . Tell me , text me , let me know that you've been for a walk in the pool . Now you said to me oh , I can't do that because like and I said I know why , but you got to shelve that because no one gives a shit how you look and they don't . So you just put your bathers on , put your shorts on and you get in the pool and you go for a walk for an hour . You've got no phone . It's you , the water and your own thoughts . How much more clarity comes when you take that time back to do that as well . And bugger me if every week , you didn't send me a message to tell me that you've been to the pool .

Speaker 1 27:36

Oh yeah , absolutely I did , and I think that what I now know about the pool is that there's an element there where you feel it all just goes away and there's more of a psychological angle to that as well . It all just goes away , and there's more of a psychological angle to that as well . Water therapy is used by the psych that I work with because of the the therapeutic effect

Therapeutic Water Immersion and Emotional Breakthrough

Speaker 1 27:54

.

Speaker 2 27:54

The therapeutic effect , the immersion in water is probably a better word for it . It's very calming , isn't it ? I love it because you can't reach for your phone and you're not stimulated by that dopamine hit of bing . Ooh , oh , someone's message . I better check it .

Speaker 2 28:10

I've been doing this now for over 12 months with a friend of mine . Every Wednesday morning we meet up , we sit in the steam room for 15 minutes and then we get in the hydro pool and we walk backwards and forwards for an hour . Now you're vulnerable when you're in the pool . Everybody's bodies are all different . No one gives a toss and you've learned now . No one looks at anybody else because they just don't care . Everybody is on their own journey , doing their own thing . So to get into the pool and walk backwards and forwards for an hour is one of the best possible things that you could do every week for yourself , once , twice . Whatever you do , I do it once a week , but I just find it so incredibly therapeutic , so I put that across to you to try it .

Speaker 2 28:55

You were very reluctant . I remember you were very oh , I can't do that . I can't do that . I remember and I knew why . But I made you tell me , didn't I ? I made you tell me why . I said what's the reason why you can't do this ? And you were open and you said because of the way I look . And I said that's bullshit , just go and do it . And you now know that it is bullshit isn't it ?

Speaker 1 29:15

Yeah , I think that when you stand there and you just sort of have a bit of a glance around and take that sort of meditational view of the world again , where you wonder a bit , I mean , there are people with injuries in there , there are people who have been in bad accidents , there are people that have Disabled people Disabled people where it's part of their routine , part of their week , that's just what they do . So it's definitely a changed view of what it was 12 months ago .

Speaker 2 29:38

Oh God , it's amazing . The difference is phenomenal , and there's still more to come . I hope you're enjoying the show . If you are , please don't forget to rate and review once you've finished . This helps the show's reach enormously .

Speaker 2 29:54

And have you got my free e-book the Best Way to Eat on Night Shift ? Well , this is a comprehensive guide to the overnight fast , why we should fast and how to best go about it . I've even included a few recipes to help you . I've put a link to the ebook in the show notes . And are you really struggling with shift work and feel like you're just crawling from one shift to the next ? Well , I've got you . If you would like to work with me , I can coach you to thrive , not just survive , while undertaking the rigors of 24-7 shift work . I also conduct in-house live health and wellbeing seminars where I will come to your workplace and deliver evidence-based information to help your wellbeing team to reduce unplanned leave and increase productivity in your workplace . I've put the links in the show notes to everything mentioned . You can find me at ahealthyshiftcom or on Instagram at a underscore healthy , underscore shift .

Speaker 2 30:55

Now let's get back to the show . I got quite emotional during our second meeting , which was only the week before last , when we caught up , I was very vulnerable because something you told me came out of absolutely nowhere and I had to sit there and hold my breath because I thought , my God , I'm going to break down and cry here . And I mean this quite legitimately , and you know that because you looked me in the eye and you went oh my God , you've got emotional . I said I take this very seriously , and I do . Now , this is not as a paid client , this is just as a friend that we're just talking about . Do you remember what it was you told me ?

Speaker 1 31:27

No , not entirely . It was probably around the successes that I'd had Some of the really big rocks . I think I'd finally been able to push over and move . It was around that stuff . But if you want to sort of take over from here , then go for it . I will .

Speaker 2 31:39

Absolutely I will . I remember you telling me that you'd set boundaries in place and you'd moved your home office out of home which you've already covered right which I thought was monumental for you , because for a broker to separate that is massive , I know that . So for you to move that and put it away . But what I did love and what I got so emotional about was that you've got a different routine when you come home on a work day than you have on the weekend . Can you just talk about your routine now ? Before you used to walk in in your suit , you would lounge around in your suit during the day . You'd be on your phone , on your laptop , making phone calls , sitting in the desk , moving back , having dinner , doing whatever you were doing . There was just nothing . You now totally separate your work and home life . Talk about that for us please , chris , because it's a really integral moment . It made me quite emotional .

Speaker 1 32:33

It is now recounting it With me . Anyway , you're right , it came out of the separation required , so now , when I get home , I'm off from work , and the real change to that was being able to move out of that office . There's more to that than that , though , and that comes in the way of a book that I read in a conference speaker . I heard many , many years ago a guy that wrote this book called the Third Space , and it's about this CEO in the insurance

Establishing Healthy Work-Life Boundaries

Speaker 1 32:57

space that he's in a very stressful job . He's got a young family , young kids . They have a three-story home , so he describes . It's on top of a hill , with garage on the bottom floor at street level , then living room mid-level and then bedrooms top level , and what this guy did is he ended up building his own entrance that he came through Monday to Friday , and being able to sort of leave work at the door , and by coming through this different entrance , had a different process , which reset him , for , you know , super dad with the kids , and I thought , bugger me , bugger , that I'll try it . So I did .

Speaker 1 33:35

So now what I do is I pull into the driveway , I come in . Instead of turning left to the family and the kids , I turn right and go and have a shower and just wash lack of a better word all the shit from the day , all the people , all the annoying phone calls , just get rid of it . That's what I do . Get changed . And you know , 20 minutes later I've gone and had dinner . Dinner's changed from . You know , I set meal on a plate tomorrow , grazing , family , conversational . You know , sometimes we watch Deal or no Deal , sometimes we play Uno , sometimes we just talk about the day . It really sets the tone for the evening later on . But the real crux of that and the real reason and why it works is because I go and just have a hard reset when I'm locking the door .

Speaker 2 34:13

That's what I love . Now I talk about my shift workers with this , but this is something that I'm going to be talking about at Mantalk myself that we need to set those boundaries between work and home , because , as they encroach backwards and forwards , no one at work likes to hear all about the crap going on in a person's life at home , and vice versa . You've put a boundary in place , and I love that . You've made it a hard boundary . How has that improved your life ? Not just yours , but your relationship with your son , as also with your wife .

Speaker 1 34:45

Stratospheric . It's a very different chain , one where we all feel equal and valued and it's not like , oh you know , walking eggshells around dad because dad might get a phone call or a deal might fall over or something untoward may have happened that he needs to go and deal with and step back into work mode . It just doesn't happen anymore . So I will say at night or if I come home , if there is something that is potentially about to fall over while I'm at dinner or before I go to bed , I'll just give them the heads up with that . But most of the time it's just all about family time .

Speaker 2 35:15

Now , we spoke about boundaries as well . So you've combined those boundaries that I spoke about with you with the book the Third Space . I've made a note of it here . I'll link to it in the show notes for anybody that's interested in having a read of it , because if it's given you value , it may very well give someone else the value out of that as well . Boundaries are incredibly important . Now , what you did do was , as I said , you dip your toe in the water and we've spoken about that literally and you just put a few little things in place that change you Now tell me . You talked to me about how you used to not eat properly and you'd just whiz by the 7-Eleven or you'd do that , and what I did was I gave you some different strategies to go around doing that . Do you recall what they were ?

Speaker 1 35:56

Yeah , I think the key one there was around hydration and a little bit of meal planning , and if you really get stuck into a corner looking at alternatives in terms of professionally catered food delivered on a big scale and what I mean by that is the 7-Eleven ham and cheese sandwich is better than a drive-thru , mac is Love it . A salad from Coles is better than a 7-Eleven sandwich . So it's just things like that and really things that I just overlooked in the past .

Speaker 2 36:20

Yeah , because you weren't educated in that way , you hadn't thought about it , because no one had taught you . That's what my job is to actually flag those things with you To anybody listening a 7-Eleven . 7-elevens are great to just call in because their sandwiches and their wraps are freshly made every single day . If you're out on the road and you're caught short , everybody can drive and eat a sandwich , everyone , right , they're not hard . You just hold it in one hand , steering wheel in the other , and you can literally drive along and pack a sandwich in .

Speaker 2 36:49

And a sandwich is so underrated for someone it fills you up for goddamn hours . And a wrap is the same , or something like an Oak Plus , which people can have as well with protein and milk . And also you're on your way home from work and you're on your own . You don't know what to do . You can get a pre-packed salad from Woolworths and then you just wander around the corner and grab a cooked chook and you take both of those home and you rip the chook apart , put it on the salad and bang you've got a meal , and it's much better than going home sitting there and waiting for Uber to be delivered . So that was another change that you've made , can ?

Speaker 1 37:23

I just add there that there's also , if you're looking for something home and I did this a long time I don't know whether you remember the call that rang into 3aw did never underestimate a ham and cheese sandwich on white bread put in an air fryer . Oh , yeah , yeah , yes , I remember and , uh , I tried that and that got me out of so many pickles when I had that home office , because it actually tasted like it had come out of a ten dollar cafe . It was was just amazing .

Speaker 2 37:47

Yep , there you go . The ham and cheese sandwich in the air fryer was on my show and we were actually talking about what's your favourite piece of kit to have in the kitchen .

Speaker 2 37:57

That's right we were and someone said ham and cheese sandwich in an air fryer . And I went oh my God , ham and cheese sandwich in an air fryer . That sounds delicious , and it is because I've done the same thing as well , and , I think , underrated , that you've got that , because most people have got slices of ham , slices of cheese and a loaf of bread . You can put that together so simply and so easily . Yeah , that's really really good , chris , and I absolutely love it . So I just want to say this to you , because I do take all of this very , very to heart , which is the reason why I've got you on the podcast . We've swapped a lot of messages and spoken a lot about this as well , but I just want to tell you how proud I am of you . I'm really , really proud . You've listened . You were looking for an answer because there's a lot of white noise out there . I know , in particular , females and men in this position , and you've gifted me an opportunity to stand there in front of the crowd at man Talk on the 15th of October , which will have passed by the time this podcast has come out , but it's going to be good because I'm going to refer to it for other people to listen to it during the man Talk .

Speaker 2 39:04

It's all about putting little strategies in place , getting that light diet right , which I'm really on a big rant about at the moment , getting up at the same time , going to bed at the same time and you've learned . Our body thrives on routine because it knows what's coming , it knows how to prepare for it and we really thrive in it . Now , this is where shift workers struggle , obviously , but we can still have a certain amount of routine and you can have routine in your job , and your routine now is to get up and go through what you go through in the morning , get in the car , drive to the office . So it puts a boundary between home and work . You go to the shared space , you work in the shared space and you are 100% present . While you're there , bang , I'm in the shared space , I'm at work , I'm handling everything . You're probably more efficient now because you're maximizing your time . You're there to work and that's what it is . The other thing that's really helped me with that is .

Speaker 1 39:59

I found that and there are thousands of them around there everywhere . But I use the Microsoft Spoo list Instead of writing notes that get lost in diaries and things that just get pushed out because you don't get to them . I've started using it in Outlook and you can set by date and set by priority , but it's things that I can come back to , that I went oh , I haven't done that , I'll put them in a to-do list . It makes things just keep ticking along without a bit of paper that gets lost . So that's also helped efficiency as well .

Speaker 2 40:24

Now , that's a really valid point as well . Time help efficiency as well Now , that's a really valid point as well . Time blocking and getting your notes there to remind you . Now , obviously , microsoft do that and you're using that Microsoft suite . But on an Android phone , you can use an app called KeepNote and what happens is you just literally open the widget , push the microphone , talk to it and then put it back down again , because you know , as you're driving we don't use our phones when we're driving , but as you're sitting in a meeting or wherever you are , things can cross your mind and you know I won't forget that . But five seconds later you've completely forgotten whatever it was . But if you put it into your notes and this brings me to my next point as well how good is it having that note down that you can let it go out of your mind as well without stressing about it ? It makes a big difference , doesn't it ? Absolutely it does ?

Speaker 1 41:11

It's such a difference you can almost go . Ah , just let it out it's done . It's like you were saying the other day I got a letter from a government department that not a lot of people are happy with at the moment and you went what did you do ? And I said , oh , I took , I blew up about it and I was really self-critical again and went just pick it up , read it , put it down I'll deal with that later , and I think that's another conversation for another day but there's so much value in that too .

Speaker 2 41:35

Yeah , just deal with it , because you can't control it . If you can't change it in 30 seconds , there's no point in giving it 30 minutes of energy right now . So I mean , you have to deal with it sooner or later , but deal with it when the time comes so that it doesn't disrupt the rest of everything else . I could take a bit of this advice myself , to be perfectly honest with you . But anyway , yeah , it's easy to say , not so easy to actually put in place . One question that I want to do as we start to wrap this up , chris , is what's the biggest takeaway that you would say that you learned from me that you will carry forward forever ?

Speaker 1 42:10

that will change your life forever the ability to slow time down and break a thought by wondering and I use the bird example again . The other would be hydration just making sure that water intake , not for any reason of drinking so many bottles or liters per day , just having it there to sip on . And I think there's a particular line of shift workers do that really well . They always do that and I think that from my conversations with them as to why they do that , part of them to give them energy . But it's also a part to break the thought process as well .

Speaker 2 42:42

And carrying a water bottle and having it sitting right in front of you means you use it all the time too , don't you ? Which makes a big difference , and for those that are starting out drinking a lot of water and thinking I've got to go to the bathroom all the time , that does change as well . It does get easier because your body starts to learn that this is what's happening . And one point that I do want to make around hydration as well is hydration and hunger .

Understanding Hunger Cues and Emotional Eating

Speaker 2 43:05

Both are located in a sensor near the hypothalamus in our brain , which actually our brain is not very good at identifying where something comes from , whereas we can think it's hunger . But we can drink and we can get rid of that hunger because the brain was confused as to whether it was hunger or whether it was hydration , and that's well-researched and that's well-shown that this is the case . So if you think you're hungry sometimes , just have a good drink of water . You might find that you realise that you are actually dehydrated instead of actually being hungry as well . Now , I remember my mum telling me this , and I know you're listening to this mum . Once again , she was goddamn right , because it's so true , isn't it ? It's so true . It is One point that I did want to make as well , and you will remember this yourself , chris when you came home from school and you used to walk into the house and you'd open the pantry and open the fridge and you'd say to mum , I'm hungry .

Speaker 2 43:57

And mum would say , have an apple . And you'd go nah , I don't want an apple , I want the chocolate biscuits or I want this . What we never realised was how right our mothers were , because if you were actually hungry , you would have eaten the apple because you're hungry , but you don't . So it shows that it's emotional eating and what happens you're eating out of boredom or out of habit , and that's what we all tend to do as well . You would have grown up with that yourself . Yeah , absolutely .

Speaker 1 44:22

I did . I think , something else that I would have loved to touch on today . Maybe it's for another day day . Maybe you're talking about the two types of hunger . What was it ? The angry and the needy , polite hunger and rude hunger . I took that away with me as well . It's something that's stuck with me .

Speaker 2 44:36

Fantastic . Just to touch on that too quickly polite hunger and rude hunger . I've released a resource which is actually on my website , ahealthyshiftcom , and if people go to resources up the top in the menu , there's free resources there . It's called the Hunger and Satiety Scale . It talks all about the hunger and satiety scale or the hunger and fullness scale , and , where we're at , it's free for people to download on my website and it talks about polite hunger and rude hunger .

Speaker 2 45:05

Now , rude hunger is something that comes out of absolutely nowhere and all of a sudden we're hungry and we would eat anything in sight . Right , and we will . Now that rude hunger is actually an emotional response , because true hunger is polite . It comes up and it goes excuse me , I wouldn't mind eating now . Like you've put it off , I wouldn't mind eating now . And then it comes to the stage where all of a sudden , it's okay , I need to eat now and I'll have something to eat and anything will do . When it's polite hunger , anything will do , whereas rude hunger is an emotional response .

Speaker 2 45:39

I ask people and I told you to ask yourself did something happen that led to that ? Did I have a deal fall over ? Did I have a barney with the wife ? What happened that led up to that ? Did I have a deal fall over ? Did I have a barney with the wife ? What happened that led up to that ? Because generally , our response is to eat and that's because we've been conditioned to that , so learning the difference between polite and rude hunger . There's a resource on my website that people can go to and download that . I put that up last week and it's an absolute ripper that we've put together for people to learn and understand how much we've lost touch with our hunger and satiety cues with our polite and rude hunger . Good point , chris . Thank you for raising that , because it's really important ?

Speaker 2 46:18

Yeah , it is good , because we do question it , and then we go too long , and the idea is not to go too long without eating , because then it does become rude hunger , doesn't it ? That's when we make poor decisions 99% of the emotional eating .

Speaker 1 46:32

is that rude stuff ?

Speaker 2 46:33

Yep , rude hunger Because we haven't eaten and we've ignored our hunger cues and we've ignored it and ignored it , and ignored it , until we get to the stage where we wheel into Macca's and all of a sudden we're buying cheeseburgers and Big Macs and we're scoffing all of that down because had we have eaten something beforehand , we would have had time to actually make a more informed decision . Good point Everything's changed in your life , and I'm so proud of you for actually doing that , and I've made that point as well . Tell me , have you got anything exciting coming up that you would like to share with the listeners ? For us ? I mean , you can talk about anything that you wish .

Speaker 1 47:13

I think there are many of us waiting to see what happens from a business side with the interest rates and some relief that may come with that . In the next sort of three to six months , my new team and I make a real point of really understanding and taking on board the gratitude that we have through a number of personal affected circumstances , right through from myself to my son , who was a preemie , in terms of , you know , the amazing job that shift workers do . We're probably one of the more experienced teams in terms of how we understand that , how a shift worker works and , for example , when to contact a shift worker , how to contact a shift worker , etc . I'm personally , as you touched on before , I'm a big advocate for men's mental health . We have an annual men's mental health keynote address , of which you're giving part of that to men that came out of a really high-risk age group that was identified in our industry 35 to 55 , sole broker businesses Mainly .

Speaker 1 48:03

Most of our industry , unfortunately , is still male-dominated .

Speaker 1 48:11

Unfortunately is still male dominated and that's where we see a lot of the high stress , high drive , high mental toll in terms of family everything from families that are disconnected , marriages that are disconnected , highly stressed , highly anxious people where their mental health issues build up to a point of , unfortunately , a whole lot of outcomes that aren't available . We're so thankful as an industry to have you give that keynote address . This is obviously recorded a little bit before the event , but reading through , I think what's going to happen , it's going to be an amazing time . And then I think you know just personally , I was able to unwrap my e-scooter the other day , so I'm really looking forward to getting out with my family , my son . I've said to him plan all the parks and the rides and the places that you want to go . You jump on your bike , I'll jump on my scooter and we can have some fun , go for a coffee in the middle of my scooter , so things like that . It's just really grounding yourself to add another bucket of things in addition to what I'm already doing .

Speaker 2 49:02

How much more do we enjoy life when we've got things to look forward to outside of our job as well , because this is a point that I make . I think Michelle will speak more on this point here , but I know it's something that I'm very passionate about , particularly for our shift working community , because we don't make enough of a priority in the 16 hours that we're outside of work as against the eight hours that we should be inside . How much more we enjoy our job and our work and how much more we put into our work when we've got a boundary outside , and how much more we actually enjoy our family life when we've got that boundary to look forward to going into , where that work doesn't just encroach over it . Fantastic point to actually finish on with that there , and I think that's really , really amazing . I'm so , so looking forward to this keynote .

Speaker 2 49:53

I was actually present yesterday at the meeting with the five speakers . It's a pity we didn't bring this one out before the man

Boundaries and Personal Transformation

Speaker 2 50:00

talk to flog the tickets to it , because people are going to hear stories from the five guys that are there that are going to blow their minds as to what . From the five guys that are there that are going to blow their minds as to what , and I took a lot out of the meeting yesterday that I can actually cash in on and highlight why some of these things have actually occurred and how they've occurred , to try and help people to understand better . It was a long day yesterday , but my God it was great .

Speaker 1 50:23

I know we've got to wrap up . You know you're across so many industries so you're going to know this stuff , what we find in the lending and broking industry is .

Speaker 2 50:33

It's not industry specific . I think it's across every small business in Australia . I totally agree . In today's day and age and since COVID it's got worse . And I love that you've said that too , because I think since COVID we've all learned that we can work from home . So now our work hours have expanded right out and it's encroached on our family time and the families have fallen apart . It's pretty obvious through the statistics that this is literally what is happening now Families are falling apart . We need to narrow that back down and start focusing on our work time in work and then putting that boundary in place . Like you do , have a routine that you go through to actually separate yourself from home and work . Well done . Out of interest people that are listening to this from my side can they come and see you and talk to you about finance and home loans , et cetera ?

Speaker 1 51:19

Yeah , we have such a soft spot for anyone in shift work Love that it's just our way of giving back . I've personally studied how the overtime stuff works . We've got so many different partners and lenders on board where we've worked with them to educate them on what part of the emergency services family is and the associated industries that that's got . So we love working with them .

Speaker 2 51:40

I was unaware of that . So anybody that's a shift worker that's in a position where they are looking , do you deal with nationally or just face-to-face ?

Speaker 1 51:48

Nationally , we can do . We finally got around the identification requirements now to be able to run a national business . So anywhere in the region of Australia we can do . And the easiest way to find us is just to jump onto fosterramseyfinance or fosterramseycom and just send a message through . That'll come straight through to me and respond as soon as possible .

Speaker 2 52:06

Thank you , Chris . I will actually put your website into the show notes so that people can go straight to the show notes . Click on the link . Go straight to your website . Send you a message Nothing ventured , nothing gained . For people Go and have a chat with Chris and his team and you never know what you might turn out . Now , Chris , I actually have a closer question that I ask everybody here . I know that you're a filthy rich broker and financier and you can buy a house anywhere , but what you don't know is I've just come across a billion dollars and I promised that I would buy a house for all of my guests that come on this podcast and I would put it somewhere in the world where they have to live in it for six months . It can't be home . Now , whether you take the wife and the kids is totally up to you or just take the dog , I don't care , but the bottom line is you've got six months that you've got to live in it . Where do you want me to build it ?

Speaker 1 53:00

I think right in the middle of Manhattan's New York district would be fairly top of the list . Times Square , Penn Station , anywhere around there would be fine , okay , no problems .

Speaker 2 53:14

I love New York . New York City is , melissa and I , one of our favourite cities in the whole world , next to Rome . We love Rome and New York . We actually hide aloft for 10 days in the Lower East Side of Manhattan , live like New Yorkers for 10 days and I've got to tell you it was one of the best experiences you can ever go through , right up until I spilt the red wine on the white bedspread but that's another issue and then put the fluffy doona through the tumblewash , the auto laundromat , and we ended up with feathers all the way down the street in Manhattan . It looked like it had been snowing in Manhattan in August , but anyway , that's another story . It was quite funny . It's funny when we look back on it , but I was terrified at the time . Anyway , thank you so much , chris , sincerely appreciate your input in relation to that and I'm so proud of you and happy to have been able to help you .

Speaker 1 54:01

Thanks so much , Roger . I really appreciate it . It's one of those things that good people do , good things for people and it's one of those things that I really really appreciate .

Speaker 2 54:10

Thank you . That's , chris Foster-Ramsey , fantastic blow . Honestly , when we met up and we had brunch a few weeks back now , I actually got really emotional seeing a man that was really really struggling change so much . His whole persona had changed . It wasn't literally just him telling me that this has changed and that's changed . I could see that his whole persona had changed . Everything had changed about him .

Speaker 2 54:34

And that can be you too , because it's not about what you're seeing on your social media or searching or the ads that are popping into your Facebook and Instagram . It literally is about putting the simple , tiny little things in place and being a little bit more mindful in everything that you do along the way , and you heard all of that from Chris today . Nothing was expensive supplements . Nothing was having to go to the gym and smash yourself all the time or hours and hours of cardio and exercise . It was literally putting simple , mindful practices and questioning yourself a couple of times over things , and the difference that that made was unbelievable to him .

Speaker 2 55:15

Please , if you got anything out of that episode at all , please share it . If you are a shift worker , you heard Chris say that we have massive sympathy for the shift workers . If you are looking for finance or homebroking or mortgage broking or anything like that , for goodness sake , please reach out to Chris . This podcast is not about promoting that . That came on to me quite unexpected in the podcast , but you'd be crazy if you didn't at least reach out and see if there's something that Chris could do for you . So go and do that .

Speaker 2 55:46

Please share the podcast . If you'd be so kind , give it a rating and a review so that more people get to find it and hear

Sharing Evidence-Based Strategies for Shift Work

Speaker 2 55:52

more about the evidence-based strategies around shift work , but to hear more from people like Chris and the impact that things can make by working with me . I'll catch you on the next one . Thank you for listening . If you enjoyed this episode , be sure to subscribe so you get notified whenever a new episode is released . It would also be ever so helpful if you could leave a rating and review on the app you're currently listening on . If you want to know more about me or work with me , you can go to ahealthyshiftcom . I'll catch you on the next one .