Creating a Healthy Shift Culture

Speaker 1 0:00

You know , I was going to jobs where you would see police from another station and you wouldn't even talk to them . Or you would go to a job where the ambulance was there and you'd barely talk to them , you'd give them a quick little . Hey , this is , oh , mate , not . Well , you know , and I'm trying to highlight that exact point , is that it is a very unique brotherhood . It doesn't have to be police , it can be police , ambulance , fire , military . We're all very , very similar people , probably more so than most people know Shift work can be brutal , but it doesn't have to be .

Speaker 2 0:39

Welcome to a healthy shift . My name is Roger Sutherland , certified Nutritionist , veteran Law Enforcement Officer and 24-7 Shift Worker for almost four decades . Through this podcast , I aim to educate shift workers using evidence-based methods to not only survive the rigours of shift work but thrive . My goal is to empower shift workers to improve their health and wellbeing so they have more energy to do the things they love . Enjoy today's show and welcome back to another episode of a Healthy Shift podcast , a guest episode , and today I am absolutely thrilled to have my friend , code One , on the podcast . Why do I call him Code One ? Because he's still serving and he's not allowed to be identified , so he's referred to as Code One .

Speaker 2 1:30

Those of you that know Code One's Instagram page it's a really , really positive Instagram page around trying to get everyone to rethink about their approach to what they're actually doing in their policing or in paramedics , nursing everyone just to get them back into really striving for excellence in themselves , and in fact , that is his motto , which will be discussed today During the podcast . Today , we ended up discussing a number of things which were along the lines of how do we spread the positivity and what is there that we can actually do , what steps can we take and what is there that we can do to start turning it around , and you'll hear his versions of what he feels is really important about getting people just talking amongst themselves at particular events and jobs and just literally doing little things like turning up for yourself and start just dismissing things that you've got no control over . It's a fantastic chat . I've sat at the table a few times with Code One and we've had a great chat and we do get along particularly well , and today's podcast episode is just no mistake that . It was just a fantastic chat for us both to have .

Speaker 2 2:54

So , without much further ado , I introduce to you Code One and welcome to the show , code One . How are you , mate ? I'm really well , rog .

Speaker 1 3:01

Thanks for having me mate . It's an absolute honor and privilege to be involved with your podcast .

Speaker 2 3:05

Yeah , thank you so much . We finally got to have a chat , Like you and I have actually sat at the table a couple of times and we've had a conversation over a coffee and brunch whenever I've been in your neck of the woods , which has been a truly humbling experience just for me . And the reason why I say that is because of the positivity that you are really , really and I'm going to use your term here you're really really striving to make things better for the frontline out there , which is the very reason why I want to get you on the podcast today . Can you do us a favor ? Obviously , today for the listeners , I will let them know that we can't use your name , but we will use you as Code One , because it'd be fair to say that quite a lot of people know you as Code One out there anyway . So tell us a bit about yourself , Code One , who you are and what you actually do and where , and hobbies inside and out .

Speaker 1 3:56

Yeah sure , first of all I'd like to apologize to your listeners . I've heard my voice on body worn camera multiple times and it's not easy to listen to , so I do apologise , mate , I guess , first and foremost outside of the policing world .

Striving for Excellence

Speaker 1 4:11

I am a father of four that's probably one of my greatest achievements and obviously a husband as well . I've got three daughters . I've got one son . Massive age gaps between them . My eldest daughter is 19 years old and my youngest daughter is one year old . So huge gap there in the ages . People would say I'm either blessed or crazy . I don't know , maybe a bit of both .

Speaker 2 4:33

Six of one , half a dozen of the other . Bit of column , A bit of column B . We'll go with that .

Speaker 1 4:37

Yeah , as a kid , my intention was always to join the Armed Forces . I wanted to join the Air Force , but you know as a kid , when you want to do something like that , it's either the best job or nothing . So I was pilot or bust . You know , I wanted to be Tom Cruise or nothing . So it turns out I'm not very smart , so it ended up being nothing . I guess I just went down the route of , you know , normal jobs , you know just bouncing around .

Speaker 1 5:04

But a majority of my workforce , or my work life , has been in sales business-to-business sales , real estate sales , retail management for a while . So I guess that's the majority of my background is in sales , which goes well for policing . You really learn communication skills quite well and how to talk to people , how to solve issues as well . So that definitely helped me . I joined the police in 2015 . And so I'm coming up on 10 years service , current operational police . Just , you know doing jobs . Doing what police do you know ? Just trying to catch bad people and try to make a little bit of a difference .

Speaker 1 5:46

But I guess that leads us to the Instagram page Started Code One in 2020 . There's lots of things going on in 2020 , as you're well aware there's lots of civil unrest in the United States . We had the COVID stuff here as well . It was just a time of great unrest . I noticed that the social media experience for first responders wasn't very good . There was lots of negativity on there , lots of people to use better words hanging shit on first responders , you know , even though they were trying to do their best job . So , yeah , I thought I'll just start an Instagram page and start putting some positivity out there , and it kind of went from there .

Speaker 2 6:29

It's gone really well , really well . What you've done is a real credit to you , because it would be fair to say that , with the negativity through 2020 towards policing in particular and that's very , very close to your blue heart and mine as well you take it on board in the end , don't you ? It wears you down , it continually chips away at you until you start to think why bother ?

Speaker 1 6:58

Yeah , you absolutely do . Like it or not , we do spend a lot of time on social media . It's taken over our lives quite a lot . If the only thing that you're consuming is negative shit about how bad the police are , how bad everything is , it'll actually become your worldview eventually . So that was my intention .

Speaker 1 7:16

Obviously , I thought I'm not going to be able to make much of a difference . Just little old me , gd's copper sitting up my lounge , you know . But you know , you know I thought , why not ? I'll give it a crack , try and be a little bit more positive about this job that I wanted for so long . And it ended up being just me kind of expressing things I was thinking or struggling with myself . You know , if I had a negative experience or I was feeling a certain way about the job or about something , I would would make a post about it , almost giving myself advice , and I thought to myself well , if I'm struggling with that particular thing , it's likely to be at least one other person that's experiencing the same thing , and if I can help that person , then that's great . So it's almost become a bit of a journaling experience for me . So you know , we're up around sort of 500 posts now , and majority of those are well thought out sort of things that I've been thinking about and solutions to those problems , or at least just putting the idea out there .

Speaker 2 8:16

It is an absolute credit to you . And what I love and I didn't realise myself is that a lot of what you're posting is self-reflection , which is proven to be really good because it's like journaling . Now , I know a lot of people poo-poo journaling and they poo-poo a gratitude practice and meditation and things like that , but all these things are free and they're things that people can use , which and I know myself from an evidence-based perspective as well that self-reflection is how we improve . We can reflect , look at something , work our way through it , sit in it and then start to strategize our way out of it . So what you've actually done with Code One is you've done that , you've sat down , you've worked through it , you've come up with a solution yourself that you thought right .

Speaker 2 9:03

I'm going to put a post out about that , because if this has helped me , then it's going to help somebody else , and , as it turns out , you've actually attracted quite a lot of people through your Instagram . Now , too , haven't you Code One ? And you've got how many followers have you got there now ? Roughly , it's about 18,500 .

Speaker 1 9:20

Crazy , yeah , fantastic .

Speaker 2 9:30

It's from all around the world too , which is kind of blows my mind . I know it's fantastic , isn't it ? And once you start to get into these other agencies and people start talking about it and following on with some fun and things like that , it does tend to make a big difference . But you've even gone one step further with Code One Now , too , because what you've done is you've branded it up and you've actually started doing some merch , which has got some fantastic slogans . Now tell us what is the main code one slogan . I've actually got it on a sticker here that I have in front of me every single day now , anytime I share my screen or anything that I'm doing from this end , I'm sure you would catch it in your eye , you would see it there and you know yeah , yeah , I had noticed it . Yeah , it's actually right here , right in front of me every day . What's the slogan ?

Speaker 1 10:11

So the original slogan that I thought of was it's Latin as contendant excellentium , which means strive for excellence . Yep , fantastic , yeah , I busted it , I stole it . It's from when I said I wanted to be in the Air Force . I was in the Air Force Cadets as a kid , and the flight that I was a member of used that slogan . That's their slogan and they're no longer around anymore , so it's okay for me to use it .

Speaker 2 10:36

I'm sure somewhere , bad luck , it's fine Bad luck , we're still on it anyway , because it's excellent , yeah , yeah , bad luck .

Speaker 1 10:44

We're still on it anyway because it's excellent . Yeah , so it stuck in my head from when I was 13 was this Contendant Excellenteum . I mean , obviously no one really knows what that means unless you look it up , so I've shortened it now just to strive , which you would have seen I use a lot . It's just a simple word of strive .

Speaker 2 11:00

I've got the strive cap . I have a strive cap . It's sitting over there in the pride of place over here and I was actually going to wear it today , but I thought , no , a little bit corny , a little bit corny , but anyway , look , tell me in your own words , what does contendant excellentum mean to you personally ?

Speaker 1 12:11

I guess striving to me , or even just the word strive or excellence , it's a mindset . It can be applied to absolutely anything in your life . It doesn't necessarily have to mean you know I'm working on an ambulance . I'm going to strive to do my best ambulance work today . It's not funnelled like that . It can be anything .

Speaker 1 12:35

So it can come down to the way you look , the way you speak , the way you engage with your family , the way you finish your paperwork at work . Is it the highest quality that I can produce ? If you have that in the back of your mind about striving , you will create the best things that you possibly can . Because you're always just trying to like look , I'm going to write this report and it's going to be the best things that you possibly can , because you're always just trying to like look , I'm going to write this report and it's going to be the best report I've ever written . It may not be , but you've given it your absolute best . I'm going to try and look my best today when I pick my son up from school , because I'm going to strive to have the best appearance that I can so that my son can be proud of the way his dad looks when he picks him up from school . I mean , that's a crazy example .

Speaker 2 13:24

No , no , it's not . It's a spot-on example . It's everything .

Speaker 1 13:28

It's everything in your life , and it doesn't mean you have to win all the time . In fact , you won't win all the time , but if you are just trying to do the very best in absolutely everything in your life , you're going to hit the goal at least 10% of the time , aren't you , which is better than zero .

Speaker 2 13:44

I totally agree and I always talk to clients about just being 1% better every day , because in 365 days it doesn't mean you're 365% better . It means you're more than that because you're compounding on top of that and I think for me to strive is literally to do the absolute best that you can in whatever it is that you're doing now . You might not come up to the great in certain areas and you've had that experience yourself recently , and we won't go into that for fear of identifying but the thing is we try our absolute best and sometimes it isn't good enough for what we want to do . But you know that you left nothing behind , because when you head out to go and pick your kids up , as you said and it was a great example if you go out and your son walks out of school and he looks at you and you're wearing your sloppy tracksuit and your thongs and you're wearing a ripped muscle shirt , are you really turning up as your best version of yourself for your son ?

Speaker 1 14:45

That's right , and I guess what comes with striving to do your best is that other people will take your example . Sometimes they may not , but they often will . It might be your team members , it might be your kids They'll . They'll say well , my dad is at school , doesn't look like a bag of milk tied in the middle .

Speaker 2 15:03

He's , you know , he's doing all right , I want to be like dad . And then the mums get to have a look across and you know , and then your son walks out and goes that's right , that's my dad , or something like that . Anyway , hey , look , there's other benefits like this , yeah , oh well , yeah , there is . But the thing is , does it not show who the person you are when you do that and you take that effort to yourself as well ? I always say that you are how you dress , and if you are feeling confident , I know I can talk about just myself going back into the gym . I've been back in the gym and I've been training really hard over the last three months or so . I'm feeling so much more confident in every other area in my life just from that . You've started doing BJJ yourself , haven't you ? It's something that's new for you to do . How has that improved your life ?

Speaker 1 15:56

Well , I've only been doing it for a short time , but I'm already seeing results in the way I am at work . So previously I may have gone to a user force option to bring someone into a peaceful arrest . Now I'm using things that I'm learning just a couple of days ago and it's a much better result . So that's that's the work benefit of it , and I think I know you hear this so often and that's probably why I didn't try jiu-jitsu

Finding Peace Through Jiu-Jitsu Fitness

Speaker 1 16:29

sooner was because everyone talks about it so much . It kind of pissed me off and I was like you're selling amway , what are you doing like ?

Speaker 2 16:36

I know it is like that , isn't . It's a real bro club . It's like CrossFit of 20 years ago If you didn't do CrossFit , you didn't fit in . Yeah , that's right .

Speaker 1 16:43

So that kind of made me not want to be involved the amount that it was . But I got worn down eventually and gave it a go and loved it . I think every cop should do it , because you will have far less injuries , you'll have far less complaints , your use of force will go down and your confidence to take someone into custody will be so much higher . On top of that , I first find that after I've finished a session I just have this feeling of clarity or euphoria . I don't know what it is and I think it just happens because of exercise . You know , I get the same thing . When I do weights or boxing or anything like that , I get the same thing . I don't know . There's something about jiu-jitsu that just brings about this , almost like a feeling of peace afterwards Love it Out of interest .

Speaker 2 17:29

Why do you think that is Because I have heard this before as well , that it's quite calming , because it's quite an aggressive although it's perceived as quite an aggressive sport , isn't it ? You know , like it's grappling . End of story , that's what it is . And there's two men rolling around on the well having a roll rolling around on the ground . Why do you think it is that you finish up and then you feel quite peaceful ?

Speaker 1 17:52

internally . Yeah , it might be the endorphins that get released from exercise . But on top of that , I think you're just letting some venom out , to be honest , like , yeah , I get the same thing . I did Muay Thai for a long time and I've got the same feeling when I did Muay Thai . I think you're just letting some of that pent up . Not aggression , it's probably a poor word for it , but maybe energy pent up , energy Frustration , frustration possibly .

Speaker 2 18:24

Yeah , just letting that out and it's it's almost your body saying you know what I needed . That that's I feel good . Now I can go about my day . I've heard this before and I think this is something that's really , really important for people to understand out of exercise . We're going to talk about this a little bit later as we go through , because I do want to cash in on this and talk about outside of the job that we all talk about .

Speaker 2 18:41

Let's go back to sort of the start here . So you've been in the police for almost 10 years now and you've seen a lot of change over that time . All right , so what have you noticed ? I don't want to go into . I don't want to make this a negative . Nancy show you and I have had plenty of conversations around what's wrong , what's right today . So let's not go down that line and talk all about . You know we could spend hours and we don't want to bore people with that . What we want to do today is we want to talk about how people can actually well be your own solution which you've actually got as a slogan . It's your bumper sticker as well be your own solution . So in your time in the State Police , what changes have you noticed in officers around you over that time ?

Speaker 1 19:28

I don't know if the change that I've noticed is in

Maintaining Outside Interests in Policing

Speaker 1 19:31

the officers themselves . I think an officer is always going to be a product of their environment , so I think the changes have come from a change in the work environment over the 10 years . At the end of the day , policing isn't difficult , you know , it's not that hard , but the workload and the work type has changed a lot over the 10 years . I've found anyway , and I'm sure if you talk to someone that's been in a job for 20 , 25 years , they would say even more so because it's probably changed in their time at the beginning .

Speaker 2 20:06

What about 40 ? 40 years ?

Speaker 1 20:08

yeah , 40 years and four days , wasn't it ?

Speaker 2 20:11

Yeah , 40 years and four days . Yeah , there's been a few changes , but anyway , yeah , don't ever chip yourself with those four days , roger . I did not , I did not . They took 10 years and four days off me , but I'm back , I'm back , he's back .

Speaker 1 20:25

I think , yeah , like I said , there's change in work type . We're dealing with a lot more family violence matters , a lot more responding to mental health traumas and like these things that we're responding to are extremely complex in nature . They take a massive toll on the workforce , which in turn changes the officer right . So if you change the dynamic in which they're working , they are naturally going to change themselves . So with those comes a lot more paperwork , stress and , I guess , the overall feeling of not doing what you signed up for . Like I don't know about you , I'm sure you didn't , but I didn't sign up to be a paramedic or a mental health clinician yeah , yeah .

Speaker 1 21:08

So I mean I signed up to lock . You know , lock up bad dudes , and I know that sounds really cliche , but it is what it is . So I think with that and I'm not saying that we shouldn't be doing those sorts of jobs , but what I'm saying is because they're becoming much more prevalent and we're doing much more of them that is inherently changing the workforce . The change in work is what's changing us . I guess is what I'm trying to say . Crime it's really simple . The bad guy did something and here's the evidence of the same . But when you talk about complex family issues over multiple years or mental health issues , it spreads us very thin . It takes a lot more care and time to deal with these issues .

Speaker 2 21:51

Rather than just responding to crime , which is pretty much what most of us signed up to do , I would say I agree , because it's portrayed that the radio crackles and you turn the lights and the sirens on and you blast to the job and you lock , crooks up . That's literally how it's portrayed , isn't it ? I know I can tell you now that when I started we used to go to DV incidents or family violence we call them family violence down here , you call them DV . But we used to go to those incidents and we would literally talk to him , talk to her , and then what we do is is we'd just ride on our 501 , which is our running sheet , civil action advised and leave . That was it . We would say you've got to go to court , you've got to go to court , you've got to leave , go to Uncle John's place , and that's how it was left and that's literally how it used to be . We would go to a car accident and we would literally just green card it . It was just this is vehicle A , these are the details . This is vehicle B , these are the details . And it would be filed . If it was an injury type accident , there'd be another sheet that we'd fill out that had about 12 more boxes on it and that's how it went .

Speaker 2 22:53

It's become much more accountable . Everyone's wearing body worn cameras . Now Everybody's having to fill out so much more paperwork and I think , the way I look at it now , compared to how it was years ago , I think there's so much more accountability that if you were to work to rule , you couldn't function at all . You just couldn't function because you'd get a family violence incident . You'd go to a family violence incident and if you followed the bouncing ball to the letter of the law , that would be that unit off the road for the rest of the shift , literally . But people take shortcuts , don't they ? Yeah , or multiple days , or a couple of days , yeah . Well , not only that , but you'd be on night shift , you would attend , you'd be doing the whole shift doing the paperwork , and then you'd be standing around in court all day waiting to get heard in court as well on overtime , taking you away from your family , and that , only to turn up at work again that night and find that they're back together again , which was always a massive problem . And this is why people ended up with the Fido attitude , isn't it ? You know , fido effort , drive on . Because at the end of the day , you just got sick of the revolving door of people going around and around . So we've seen those changes .

Speaker 2 24:07

But what I want to talk about and touch on is that's dragging people down and they're spending more and more and more time with their heads down bums up , hanging off typewriters or computer screens . Keyboards , I meant to say . I meant to say keyboards everyone , not typewriters . Jeez , I started with typewriters . Not only did I start with typewriters , but I started with carbon paper in between pieces of paper and typing questions and answers as well , my God . Anyway , yeah , I was six-shooter in the big torch . Eh , it was the six-shooter in the big torch . Eh , it was the six shooter and the Milo we used to call it because it was marvellous , what a difference Milo made .

Speaker 2 24:52

Anyway , you spoke about your BJJ before and you spoke about it's an outside interest that you've developed and it gives you that sense of euphoria and things like that . Can you tell me ? I know from running seminars up in for QPS . I know that there's a lot of resources put in place for QPS officers up there around outside interests as well and I know a lot of people are not aware of it , but pastoral care up there are excellent . Well , they seem to be with what they actually do and the community policing side of things as well , but they do encourage officers to actually seek outside interests and they really do support that as well . It's do encourage officers to actually seek outside interests and they really do support that as well . It's a great initiative . How important do you feel that an outside interest is to an officer in today's policing ?

Speaker 1 25:34

You're absolutely right when you say that it's promoted . It was actually promoted to us in the academy so they sat us down and explained how important it was to maintain hobbies and outside interests whilst we weren't even in the job . So we were training for the job and they were making that very clear . So you're absolutely right . It is massive in my mind . You simply cannot live and breed a job where you deal with people at their very worst

Building Camaraderie Outside Police Duties

Speaker 1 26:04

every day because , let's face it , nobody rings the cops to say , oh hey , I'm having a great day today . I just thought you should know . And you can't do that job and expect to be happy if you live and breathe that . So I mean , I'm sort of at risk of it myself because I do spend obviously a lot of time at work .

Speaker 1 26:24

I'm full-time operational , but I also run this page , so I'm thinking about the job a lot . So I have to make sure that I have outside hobbies , outside friends , which is one of the reasons why I started jiu-jitsu . I don't think there's anything more important . Really , I guess the thing is as well you naturally lose your friends when you join this job . I don't know if you experienced that when you first join the cops . There's a lot of people that don't like us , and some of them may have been your friends , so I lost nearly all of my friends when I joined the police . I didn't have a great lot to begin with , but I lost majority of . I think I kept maybe one or two , so that just happens .

Speaker 2 27:05

Yeah , but you signed up and you gained $15,000 at the same time , didn't you ?

Speaker 1 27:09

Yeah , that's true , I gained lots of friends from the job . But I guess the danger that you have when you only have friends in the job is that that's all you'll talk about , that's all you'll live for . So , yeah , so your outside hobbies give you that opportunity to meet people who aren't in the world . So if you go to a boxing gym or you I don't know , play World of Warcraft or I don't know something , if you have a hobby that's outside of the job , you're going to meet people , you're going to start to get along and you don't have to tell them what you do . But you might meet some friends that aren't in the job and you can talk about things that aren't . Oh , I went to this traumatic car accident the other day . You can actually have a conversation . That's not about responding to trauma .

Speaker 2 27:53

Yeah , I totally agree with you there . I find this very important . I know and I will tell you this as well , just so that you're aware when you leave the job , you lose all those friends again . It's a totally different thing . Again , I can tell you that that is literally what happens . In majority of cases . You are just a number while you're in , but you will lose those friends once you leave . It's a very , very unique brotherhood right Very , very unique .

Speaker 1 28:19

Yeah , but I guess which is why I'm trying to bring that back , because I feel like we've lost our way a little bit oh , totally , you know , that's one of the reasons why I started this as well . You know , I was going to jobs where you would see police from another station and you wouldn't even talk to them . Or you would go to a job where the ambulance was there and you'd barely talk to them , you'd give them a quick little hey , this is , oh , mate , not . Well , you know , and I'm trying to highlight that exact point is that it is a very unique brotherhood . It doesn't have to be police , ambulance , fire , military . We're all very , very similar people , probably more so than most people know . It doesn't matter what clothes you're wearing or what badges on your shirt . We need to embrace that brotherhood again and stop bickering amongst each other .

Speaker 2 29:10

Yeah , I totally agree with that . I have my own opinion on things like WhatsApp chat groups and things like that as well . They can be very useful . They can be so goddamn harming and damaging at the same time as well , and there's a potential there and you would feel it as well , because you run the Code One Instagram page and you've also running a couple of side pages off that as well , which are excellent as well , and I find that doing that , you're involved in chat with people from the job all the time and as well as at work , trying to lift yourself and lift the team and lift your crew all the time , and then coming home and trying to pump people up afterwards , you must really crash and sleep well because it gets to that stage , or you can't turn off because it's all been about everything to do with the job .

Speaker 2 30:02

My advice , after 40 years I love that you can actually remember that you were sat down and had it explained to you the importance of maintaining hobbies and outside interests outside of the job . I love that you remember that , because that's something that I would drum into recruits today that do not live for this job , because this job can be taken away from you literally at the click of a finger , without you even realizing , and then what have you got outside of it ? You've got absolutely nothing . Now , this doesn't mean you wait for your days off after night shift and you get together with your crew at work and you go off and go to Bali for six days , or , do think , go to the islands , or something like that . This means having outside people time to decompress from the job , and I think Dr Kilmartin talks about this in his book Emotional Survival for Law Enforcement , which is an excellent book .

Speaker 1 31:01

It should be mandatory reading .

Speaker 2 31:02

It should be mandatory reading . It should be mandatory reading . I totally agree with you . I actually searched for one on Amazon the other day . It was about $100 , just one , oh , wow , yeah , it's outrageous , but it should be mandatory reading . It should be handed to every recruit , because we and you touched on this before .

Speaker 2 31:18

We honestly believe that 99% of society are totally screwed in the head and they're all out to get us . It's actually not that way . It's 99% of the less than 1% that we actually deal with that are like that , and we don't deal with that many people every day and , in fact , what we do do is we lose sight of the people that actually give us a thumbs up and the people that wave to us as we're driving along . We just think , oh , you're nuffy , what are you doing ? We should embrace that . Hey , give them a wave back . Someone's acknowledged us . It's fantastic . But I'll talk about that a bit later on as well , because I want to talk about gratitude and acknowledging what we're actually seeing , because we don't . But I think we need to have these outside interests , otherwise we do start to believe that the whole world is crazy , and I know .

Speaker 2 32:09

Two years ago I had a chat with a colleague , an ex-squad mate of mine 40 years ago , but I had a conversation with him only two years ago and he said to me you've got to understand that the life outside is so much better , it's so good , really good . I'm going . Oh , I don't know , I don't trust anyone , I feel really strange . He goes no , no , rog , it's not like that . That's the perception that you have that the job gives you , but it's not actually like that it does . It really does take a long time for you to step away from the job , to realize that there's some ripping people out there and they're not all out trying to con something out of you all the time , and I think that's something really , really important for the junior members and the younger people to actually understand .

Speaker 2 32:55

One other thing that I do want to back over as well that you said before was when we go to jobs , was when we go to jobs , it's us and it's the AMBOs and it's the fireys and it's the tow truck drivers , and hang on a second we're all at a fatal accident scene . Everyone's dealing with it . We should actually and in fact , someone messaged me last night and was looking forward to us doing this podcast , and I'm actually going to mention them . His name's Jeff and he is a paramedic and he said he went to a fatal accident once where the members' officers were there . He remembers embracing one in the rain . It was very traumatic , but they all had a barbecue the next day . Everyone in their civvies had a barbecue . He said it was the best ever debrief he's ever had and it built great camaraderie .

Speaker 2 33:43

Someone just said we're going to go down to the . You know , you can just go to the Rotunda somewhere and say we're going to meet

Building Camaraderie Across Emergency Services

Speaker 2 33:49

here at two o'clock tomorrow and we're going to have a debrief where we're just going to have I don't know , a couple of sausages in bread and just have a chat . Everyone's invited . But if I did that today , people wouldn't turn up . We need to turn that around and that's the biggest problem that we have and I think , yeah , just touching back on that , I challenge every officer and every police person that's listening to this , and also every paramedic and fireman that is listening to this as well , to go up and say g'day to one of your colleagues at the next scene that you go to . I challenge you to do that . Just go up and say g'day , mate . How's it going ? How's things going for you ? And if he fogs you off , just go bit rough , mate , and just walk off because you've done your bit and tried . But if you keep chipping away , you'll form bonds and relationships . Do you agree with that ?

Speaker 1 34:41

Oh , absolutely you'll form bonds and relationships . Do you agree with that ? Oh , absolutely . I mean , it's not even very difficult . You just walk up and go , hey , what station are you guys from Exactly ? You know it's very easy . And they say , oh , I'm from X , y , z . And you say , oh , you know , you used to live around the corner from there , or whatever . How's your shift going ? What roster are you on , are you ? Because we are all and I keep saying it we are all the same type of people . It's not difficult to have a conversation with these people and that is you know . Obviously , one of the reasons why I do this is because I'm trying to bridge that gap between us all and that's stationed . If it's police to police , whatever , but it's also police to everyone else . I mean , I love I have to pick my mark on this one but I love , whenever I go to a car accident or something like that where the fireys are involved , I love going up and having a little crack , having a crack .

Speaker 2 35:28

It's a time-honoured tradition . We've always done it , absolutely .

Speaker 1 35:34

I try and pick the young ones because I think the old ones might not like it so much . But I walk up to the young and say , hey , did you pause the movie , mate ? Or it's the rookie cooking lasagna , like you know , and they all just have a little bit of a laugh . And then we you know , there's nothing wrong with doing that and we've kind of gone into these silos where , oh I'm the police , I stand over here , oh I'm the fireys , I'm going to stand over here , I'm going to talk to those cops . You know , just secure this thing , you know , like it's . We don't need to be like that , we're all on the same team .

Speaker 2 36:01

Yeah , yeah , You're in charge . I'm in charge . No , you're not . Yeah , no , this is my scene . We're doing that . Stop it right . Let's just all pull together and work . We've all got our jobs .

Speaker 1 36:10

I'll do my job , you do your job , but outside of that we can have a chat and a laugh .

Speaker 2 36:18

Oh , articulated that as well , that it's not hard to have a conversation with someone and you can open it up with a leading question what station are you guys from ? Where are you got To the paramedics ? You can say that , oh , I know Jim from or such and such . Yeah , yeah , he was there . Or oh , no , he's long gone , mate . And so the conversation starts to roll .

Speaker 2 36:40

Why don't you leave the scene , making an impression on someone that someone may have made on you and how it would make you feel as well , and I think that's something that just starts to make people go . You know , it's not that bad . Instead of , you are your own worst enemy . If you turn up to a scene and you stand there and you are sitting in the car with the windows wound up , with the air conditioning on , with your arms crossed , just waiting for the scene to clear , you're your own worst enemy . No wonder you are dying in the job , because what are you actually adding to your life in what you're doing as well ?

Speaker 2 37:10

So on that note too , moving forward , it's no secret today that policing's in an absolute world of trouble , and in fact today I shared the ABC article of the vacancies , and I'm told that there's actually up to 7,000 vacancies across Australia in policing alone at the moment . You don't even talk about the nursing frontline health , the paramedics as well , and fireys . The fireys are not in as much trouble here as they are in the US . I don't think they're as busy here . Let's not dig at that . We'll leave that . All right , don't have that shot . Is busy here ? Let's not dig at that .

Speaker 1 37:46

We'll leave that All right .

Speaker 2 37:49

And for those that don't know ,

Promoting Resilience and Camaraderie in Policing

Speaker 2 37:57

Code One has another group of fireys on there and they love to banter with each other and tag each other in posts and it's very , very funny yeah .

Speaker 1 38:00

So the funny thing is a funny little story I'll quickly cover . That is , we found each each other on instagram . Their name is almost identical to mine . It was code one crew , and this was real early on like 2020 and we just sort of messaged and I said , huh , funny , our names are almost the same , you know . And then so we just started talking . This isn't we could do that on the roadway ? Yeah , that's right , at a we just started talking on Instagram because our names were almost the same . Now I could , you know , most people go oh , their name's almost the same as mine . I'm going to message them and tell them to change it . No , we just started chatting and it ended up being this funny banter that I found out . They were fiery and you know , as you know , we just tag each other in shit talk basically .

Speaker 2 38:42

I think it's hilarious . I do , and I love the share and the banter between you two . You know you say our name is almost the same , but I don't know whether anyone's noticed when they go to a scene , but ambulances , fire engines and police cars all have red and blue lights on them .

Speaker 1 38:56

They're the same as well .

Speaker 2 38:58

You know what I mean . Yeah , in fact I can tell you a funny story . Do you want to hear a funny story ? I can remember when that changed , when the fire brigade had red , we had blue and we had to meet up with the fire brigade and we had to swap one dome to the other and we used to say to the fire brigade you put the red on the driver's side so he knows what side to get in .

Speaker 1 39:21

You have been around a long time . I have been around a long time .

Speaker 2 39:25

I have been around a long time . I don't know what year that was , but I can remember that if you got in a police car and had two blue lights on it which they used to have we used to have to go and catch up with a fiery that had two red ones so that we could swap it with them or with an ambulance . I kid you not , we were driving around with screwdrivers and we were undoing the domes and swapping the domes and once we got one of each , we thought we were it in a bit back in those days . Yeah , I have been around a long time haven't I .

Speaker 2 39:51

It's pretty sad really when you think about it .

Speaker 1 39:53

Just after the police , dinosaurs were rolled out .

Speaker 2 39:56

Oh , stop it . Do you know ? I remember when the radio started in the car ? No , I don't . You might not know , but VicPol was the first police agency in Australia to actually have radio communications as well . That's why Coinsland was still using the carrier pigeon . In fact , they still do , don't you ? Smoke signals , smoke signals .

Speaker 2 40:17

Okay , so we've talked about the outside interest . Now how do we turn it around ? Now ? Because , in fairness , the job hasn't changed at all . Right , I don't believe it . It's still a matter of turning up to work , putting the uniform on , going out and trying to catch a crook . It's been complicated , but the job is still exactly the same . Members , officers , get to work and the first thing that they want to do is just get out there on the road and catch crook and do something you know clean it up , do the job that they were actually employed to do . So they're giving it all . But how do we turn the mentality around ? What do we do ? Like you're doing your absolute best through your page , but unless I mean , everyone's on social media now . But how do we turn it around ? That's a very big question .

Speaker 1 40:59

I don't really think that it's in any one individual's power to fix worldwide policing . I think we have to just go back to what we were saying earlier and that's doing your absolute best every day . But in the things that you can control and what's within your influence my tl at work . She uses an analogy all the time , saying it's easy to get stuck in the weeds . So getting out from the weeds and just influencing what you can control . So if there's a higher organisational issue that you have absolutely no control or influence over , why are you worrying about it ? You know , if there's no reason to worry about that oh , the Assistant Commissioner said this on the news so what are you going to do ? That's right . You have absolutely no control over that . So why are we in the weeds ? I don't know .

Speaker 1 41:46

I think we need to get back to just doing the best thing with everything that is in your control and in doing that , we need to get back to that first responder family that everyone expected when they joined . So if you see an issue , you can look at it and say , well , look , this is in my control , be conscious of that and make an effort to fix it . If it's not , you almost just have to recognise it and let it go , because we're not talking about a small business of three or four people here . It's an organisation of upwards of 20,000 people at times . So you have absolutely no control over the upper echelons or decisions being made at the top . So , in doing the very best that you can , others may join you and then that squad of people doing the very best that they can becomes bigger and it influences more people . Roger , I think that's the only way that we move forward . You know , I don't think any individual can do it .

Speaker 2 42:39

And I think it's up to the senior people to shut the F up now . I think it's time to . I love this analogy that you've used , that if you can't change it yourself , you don't give it any time , because you can't Just do the best that you can possibly do with what you're actually doing , because you can hear , like you said , the assistant commissioner say something and not agree with it or think it's wrong , but are you going to do ? You can't change it . That's what's in the position . Yeah , zero point in dwelling on it .

Speaker 1 43:06

I agree . I don't take issue with recognizing it , that it's occurred and maybe saying , oh , I said that it does pretty shit , but or whatever it is , whatever example you can think of , you don't fill in the blank . But you you've got to just recognize it and go not in my . But I can control the way I show up to work . I can control the way I speak to my colleagues . I can control the next time I walk into someone else's station saying g'day to everybody and asking how their day was . That's not difficult and it is within my control . And I think if you do those things consistently on a daily basis , doing that striving , I think in the long run things will change . But it needs to be a group effort . Everybody needs to do that , or a vast majority of people need to do that anyway .

Speaker 2 43:49

And it's up to the leaders to do that . And when I say leaders , people like yourself with 10 years now , because you're coming up to a very dangerous time in the job now , at your vintage , because you could get to the stage where you become very jaded around 10 years , and that's what the long service leave kicks in at 10 years . But the thing is , I think what we need to do is leaders like yourself need to show the way , that you need to lead your crew into another station and actually talk about it . Or if you're in a car and you're cruising around and you come across an ambulance station , drop in and say good day to the paramedics . You know whatever , make that time , do that , because we need a lot more of it .

Speaker 2 44:30

If I put you in charge of the curriculum at the academy today , like if I said to you you've got 10 years experience now , so you've seen a lot come out and what we're getting . But if I put you in charge of the curriculum at the academy and said to you right , include one particular module , what would you actually include into that module ? Let's just say you've got 12 lessons over six weeks , so twice a week you've got them for two hours over six weeks . What would you actually include in the curriculum to make people a better copper today ?

Speaker 1 45:09

Oh , that's a hard one . I think being more resilient is what needs to be taught . But having said that , I don't think resilience is something that really can be taught . But I think it needs to be at least spoken about . It gives people some strategies around resilience . Yeah , like I said , I don't think resilience be at least spoken about . It gives people some strategies around resilience .

Speaker 1 45:24

Yeah , like I said , I don't think resilience is something you can teach . I think it must be something that is built by experience , by doing hard things . But I guess if I had to do a lesson on it , it would be to approach hard things with purpose , seek out those hard things and know that if I do this , I'm going to gain valuable experience which will help me build resilience down the track . I've got an example , I guess , like I used to be in sales , as I mentioned at the beginning , I don't think you build resilience any quicker than in sales . If you're going door-to-door selling , for example , or prospecting door-to-door , or being on the phone and being told to kick rocks over and over and over again , eventually , by door 13 or 14 , you're going to have built some sort of resilience to that negative example . But if you were to make a sale on door one . You're not going to have that opportunity to build that resilience down the track .

Speaker 1 46:26

So I guess teaching them to seek out the no , if that makes any sense , means you're getting closer to a yes . If you expose yourself more and more and more to failing , to getting a no to that hard job that you didn't really know how to deal with it , if you put your hand up for it and say , yep , I'm going to give that a red hot crack and fail , you will in turn build resilience . I guess you have to then be quite wary of overexposing yourself in a first responder capacity to trauma and things . But I think getting your hands dirty and failing is the best way to build some lasting resilience , so I think I'd probably talk on that . And failing is the best way to build some lasting resilience , so I think I'd probably talk on that . Try and get people to have the if not confidence , just the ability to say yes in the absence of confidence .

Speaker 2 47:19

Yeah , have a go ,

Encouraging Confidence and Resilience in Policing

Speaker 2 47:20

just have a go . That's one of the most important things Get in . I think one of the most important things that I would teach recruits today would be make a decision , full stop . Just make a decision and stand by it with the information that you had at the time . It may be the wrong decision , I totally understand that . But this driving around today and I don't know what it's like where you are but this driving around with the van crews asking the supervisor I've got these four jobs . Which one do you want me to go ? For God's sake , pick a job and go to it .

Speaker 1 47:51

That's right , just do it and you know what ? Don't avoid that hard job . That's I guess . What I'm trying to say is you might have five , six , seven , eight , 20 jobs , depending on where you're working in your list . Yep , and instead of going , I'm going to take this easy one and this easy one and this easy one . You're actually not building any sort of resilience , or or gaining any experience .

Speaker 1 48:13

That's right , yeah , have the courage to select that hard job , which you have absolutely no idea what to do with it , Because when you're there you will either learn how to do it or you'll stuff it up so royally that someone will teach you how to do it . But that doesn't matter . It doesn't matter , you know , nothing can't be fixed .

Speaker 2 48:35

No , and you're not going to be criticised if you have a go . It's when you deliberately do the wrong thing , when you get in trouble . But if you go in and you have a go , someone's responsible for it . So if you're very junior and you go into a job and you try and handle it to the best of your ability but you make a right royal stuff up of it , well , it's up to the supervisor for not actually guiding you the right way at the time .

Speaker 2 48:58

And I think people need to just get in there and just make a decision and just go and do the goddamn job . Right , just go and do it . Have a look on your shoulder patch with what your shoulder patch says , and just go and do the job , because that's what you've got to go and do . You're being paid by the organization for eight hours of your time to go and do that . So go and do that . Right , that's what they want .

Speaker 2 49:19

And if whoever's in charge has made the rules that this is the way we go about doing it , you've got to go and do it that way . He's the captain , he's steering the ship . If it hits the iceberg , it's not your responsibility because he's the captain , but by golly , if you go off and try and run your own lifeboat , you're going to have big problems and you could end up isolated on your own . So yeah , I think that's another one that's really , really important . Just to remember , they get your blood for eight hours , and then what you do outside of that is completely up to you as well , so I love that .

Speaker 1 49:54

Seek out the stuff up . I reckon you know , obviously don't try to make mistakes , but seek them out so that you , you know you will make mistakes inadvertently by doing the job .

Speaker 2 50:06

It makes you a far better copper down the track Absolutely . I hope you're enjoying the show . If you are , please don't forget to rate and review once you've finished . This helps the show's reach enormously . And have you got my free e-book the Best Way to Eat on Night Shift ? Well , this is a comprehensive guide to the overnight fast , why we should fast and how to best go about it . I've even included a few recipes to help you . I've put a link to the e-book in the show notes .

Speaker 2 50:39

And are you really struggling with shift work and feel like you're just crawling from one shift to the next ? Well , I've got you . If you would like to work with me , I can coach you to thrive , not just survive , while undertaking the rigours of 24-7 shift work . I also conduct in-house live health and wellbeing seminars , where I will come to your workplace and deliver evidence-based information to help your wellbeing team to reduce unplanned leave and increase productivity in your workplace . I've put the links in the show notes to everything mentioned . You can find me at healthyshiftcom or on Instagram at a underscore healthy , underscore shift . Now let's get back to the show . Okay , so you're the chief commissioner and you are now standing there at graduation and you're shaking the hand of every graduate as they salute you right ? So what ? Sorry , that was a visual .

Speaker 1 51:45

I don't think that's on the cards . I don't think I can scribe that much . No , no , no .

Speaker 2 51:48

But I'm just saying you're going to get to speak to every single recruit that's graduating , one at a time . You've got one minute to tell them something . What word of advice would you actually give them upon graduating today ?

Speaker 1 52:02

Two ears , one mouth Listen more than you speak , but be careful who you get your advice from . I think most people know instinctively who's full of shit and who's toxic . Don't listen to that person . But two ears , one mouth . Use them in that order and try and be the officer that you would want responding to your emergency .

Speaker 2 52:20

I love that . That's exactly what I would say If your grandma is in trouble .

Speaker 1 52:26

What officer ambulance fire , whatever it is . Do you want turning up to that emergency ? Be that officer , ambulance fire , whatever it is . Do you want turning up to that emergency ? Being that officer , being nothing less ?

Speaker 2 52:34

Totally agree with that , because everybody's got family out there and we all know , don't we , that when family members are in trouble , we will ring the local unit and say , hey , this is my mum , my dad , my whatever you know . Can you give it a bit of special attention ? You should be giving them all a special attention , really , and that's what your point is . Turn up as that person because you don't know who you're dealing with on that particular occasion . I think that's really good and that one minute was probably some of the best advice that anyone could get . So you've got two ears and one mouth . Use them in that order . Pick the best of everybody and put it all together . Ignore the shit from everybody . Don't let people drag you down because it may not be true and generally won't be . Don't let toxicity seep in , because it manifests and gets a lot worse like a cancer within a group and you don't want to be part of that . You want to be part of the positivity and treat every job . I think that's really good , yeah .

Speaker 1 53:35

You know who those people are , you can tell . You can tell very quickly . You don't need a post-it note on their forehead . You know exactly who that person is .

Speaker 2 53:41

You do . And I'll tell you another thing you'll learn very quickly , particularly in if you're with someone on the van and they're talking about other people , you can rest assured . They're talking about you when you're not with them . Same as in life . You can guarantee that as well . Don't get involved in that , because whatever you say will be repeated . Now mental health's a major issue in policing today . Why do you think it's personally escalated to the extreme that it has now ?

Speaker 1 54:07

look , I'll put a caveat on this , because I'm not a mental health professional by any means . Yeah , yeah , of course , so I can only sort of go on my observations , your own opinion . Yeah , I'm not sure that it's escalated now or if it's just being talked about and exposed more . I'm not sure it's possible that it isn't actually escalating , but that it's been like this for a long time and we're just now getting to a point where people are talking about it more . Maybe I I don't know I could be wrong on that , but I guess because I wasn't in the job 20 years ago , but I doubt it was ever spoken about to the level that it is now . So whether it's just an exposure thing now than an actual escalation , I'm not sure , but I do think that first responders were probably a lot more tight-knit back then . We're not isolated quite as much as we're isolating ourselves . I think first responders were probably a lot more like that family you know that first responder family thing that we've been speaking about .

Speaker 1 55:09

I do , however , think that the increased scrutiny and pressure from social media is having a detrimental effect

Navigating the Challenges of Policing

Speaker 1 55:15

on people . There's the constant observation feeling of you know you have to perform perfectly in every scenario , which adds that extra layer of stress to a job that's already stressful . Yep , agreed , you don't know , is this interaction going to wind up on YouTube ? I best make sure that I'm speaking absolutely bang on . You know . I think that's adding an extra layer of stress to a job which is detrimental . Shift work is isolating by nature . You've spoken about this at length . You're disconnected from your family because you're sleeping when they're awake and vice versa . But I guess your work in that space assists with body health , which naturally as a result helps mental health . So I think if you can get that shift work thing in check , that will help with mental health . But I do think that social media has had a vastly negative effect on police and other first responders' mental health .

Speaker 2 56:04

Totally agree , but that's where you can use your platform to try and reverse that as well , which is a great use of it , because you're trying to reverse it and turn it around the other way , and I think that's something that's really , really important . Yeah , we're under pressure from social media , from the scrutiny , but the other thing is , as well , there's positive accounts , and it's not just yours . There's other positive accounts out there that are trying to do the right thing as well . Yeah , there's lots . Yeah , it's good , yeah , it's absolutely fantastic . And remember , what you look for is what you will find . Make no bones about it . If you look for it , you will find it . So , if you are continually in the negative , nancy and I think to be honest with you , covid taught us a lot about this If you were dead against COVID , then all you saw was all the evidence against COVID .

Speaker 2 56:53

But if you were for COVID , all you saw was all the evidence for COVID . Like it used to be , you don't go to a party and talk about politics or religion , but they've added COVID to that now , because you just couldn't talk about COVID , because people were so divided and the algorithm runs to reinforce what it is that you're actually looking for and it will continually feed you that . It's like someone that's looking for fat loss programs . All you'll get is fat loss , fat loss , fat loss , fat loss . That's all you'll see on your Instagram and that's what they do , and that's how social media works . For us , it's an echo chamber , for sure .

Speaker 1 57:29

Oh , it's totally an echo . Yep , I think that's where it does make positive content difficult to get out , because negativity seems to be favoured by algorithms and people , unfortunately , naturally seek out negativity because it gives them that , I don't know , makes them feel good for a second or whatever . But positivity is harder to promote . That's just . It is what it is .

Speaker 2 57:50

Yeah , it's not clickbait . It's not clickbait if it's positive . It's the other way around . I'm going to ask you this because you've been in the job for 10 years Are you in love with the job today ?

Speaker 1 58:02

That's a difficult question . Yes , I think I do love the job . I love the people I work with . I love the nature of the job . I love the job . I love the people I work with . I love the nature of the job . I love the fact that it is like no day is the same . I'm not stuck to a desk a lot of the time . I guess , and I guess I don't think I would bother with the Instagram page and , you know , try and bring people back together if I didn't . You know a lot of work goes into this content , and I think , if I didn't have some love for this job , that I wouldn't bother , I'd just leave , you know , because it's a lot of work . But yeah , I think I do . I love the team , I love the people I work with . They're all some of the best humans I've ever met . Having said that , though , are there days where I think gee Bunnings looks good ? Yes , there are those days . You know , I could sell power saws . That would be easy .

Speaker 2 58:58

No downside to working in Bunnings . Imagine working in Bunnings and getting the discount that they get . And you know what ? I'm over 60 now , so I could actually get a job in Bunnings because Bunnings get paid an incentive by the government to employ people over 60 .

Speaker 1 59:10

Oh beautiful , there you go 40 years at Bunnings .

Speaker 2 59:13

Here we go 40 years in four days I could go and jump into Bunnings and have a go . The one thing that I did want to talk about on the back of this is you've touched on this . I'll tell you now . You are in love with the job . Because you would not run the accounts and pages and try and cohesively pull all of these people together as one team . You wouldn't . You wouldn't do it if you weren't in love with what you're actually doing . And yep , there's always going to be good days and bad days , and I'm coming at you from 40 years experience myself here . Otherwise you wouldn't .

Speaker 2 59:46

One thing that I would like to say to anybody that's listening to this , that's working in policing or a nurse or

Practicing Gratitude and Accepting Feedback

Speaker 2 59:52

a paramedic , at this point in time , you will see what you look for . If you don't practice gratitude in what you're doing and you can stand there and you can go oh my God , here goes Rog with his happy clapper stuff again . But I'll tell you , gratitude is free . But if you get to the end of your day and you jot down three things that you're grateful for , like you could get home from work yourself and you could jot down three things that you are actually grateful for around your team Because you said I adore the people that I work with . I admire them , I love going to work and working with them . We do good shit together , right Bang . You love that . That's something to be grateful for , because there's people in the next office that are not so happy , as you know . And I think if you practice gratitude and start looking for what is good in your job and what is good in your life , you literally do through neuroplasticity . You start rewiring your brain to actually see the good , to see it . You start rewiring your brain to actually see the good , to see it . Now you are in that place because you do look for the good . You look for what you can actually see is good all the time and yet , of course , you're going to see bad . It's like a person that's continually looking for bad all the time . Every now and again you'll spot something that's good but you'll dismiss it . And it works the same in reverse that if you are continually looking for the good , now you know you've got people in your office at work that are those up and about people . They're happy , they exercise outside of work , they just feel good , they look good , they're just awesome people to be around . That doesn't happen by accident . They don't smash packets of Doritos sitting there watching Netflix on the couch all day and then go to work . They are not those people . They're the people that are getting out , going for a walk , taking the dog for a walk , getting out in the daylight . They're the people that are going to the gym , they're going to do BJJ , they're doing their crocheting on the beach . You know what I mean . Whatever they're doing , they're doing something that's right , that suits them .

Speaker 2 1:01:59

The message here is very clear you will live the life that you look for . So start living the life that you want to be in this job , because when you live the life that you want in this job , you wouldn't believe it . It actually happens to you , it happens for you and it happens to you . So in six months time , if you start turning up to work confident , when you get knocked down , the first question you got to ask yourself is was that beyond my control or was that in my control ? Because if it was not in your control and you just come across some dickhead , then it's not in your control .

Speaker 2 1:02:35

They're going to do that anyway . You can't change it . You can walk around salt , but the only person that's being hurt is you , end of story . So pick yourself up , dust yourself off and don't get into a WhatsApp chat group and start bitching and moaning about it outside of work , because someone needs to turn around and say what are you going to be able to do about it ? Nothing , I just want to have a bitch . Yeah , great , you've had your bitch . Now let's move on .

Speaker 1 1:03:00

Agree , absolutely . You know what . Mute that group chat . If it's starting to get a little bit negative , just put it on mute for a while . Yeah , totally agree . That's in your control to mute that and come back to it later .

Speaker 2 1:03:09

Every single thing is in your control . If you do something wrong in the job , or let's just say I'm just going to use an analogy A boss goes through some BWC , some body worn camera of yours and doesn't like what they see . That's his opinion and he can say whatever . But how can you change it ? You can't change it . That's his opinion . All you can do is put your side of the story to it . You can't change it . Move on . Who cares ? Because the more you show that you care about it , the more you're feeding his ego . You're just feeding his ego .

Speaker 1 1:03:38

I had an incident only last week . I had a you suppose it was reviewed and I got an email with some suggestions and whatnot . A lot of people would be saying , oh you know , I did this , I did , did that and my response was I identified those things on the night and I was absolutely welcome . Your criticism and your criticism is not only expected but welcome for me to be better next time love , it shuts them down , doesn't it ?

Speaker 1 1:04:04

well , it's not even about that , it's just about I mean , yeah , it wasn't perfect so why fight it ?

Speaker 2 1:04:10

That's right , because we hate criticism . We all hate it . I had a go .

Speaker 1 1:04:14

It wasn't perfect and now I'll learn for next time which goes back to exactly what we were saying last time is about having a go . You know I'm 10 years in this job . I had a go at something that I don't do very often and you know it worked , but it wasn't pretty pretty and I won't do that again .

Speaker 2 1:04:28

I'll be better next time and how good's that Exactly ? And it's a great way to completely shut them down from what they're doing , because you can literally just shut them down by oh , he's accepted it because they expect you to fight back against it and they're already ready for their next reply as well , so you might as well let it go . No point fighting him if he's right . Yeah , okay , that's subjective .

Speaker 1 1:04:53

That can be subjective , but we'll go with that .

Speaker 2 1:04:55

Now I want to give you the opportunity . Is there anything that you'd like to speak about yourself that we've not really discussed at this point in time ? So far , we've skipped over some of it , but I'm mindful of the time . I don't want it to go too long today for people , but is there anything that you would like to actually discuss that you feel that is important from Code One's perspective , that you would like to get a message across to people ? Because I just went on a rant myself and got mine across , so go for it .

Speaker 1 1:05:21

I don't know if there's a great lot that we haven't discussed . I think it's been a very good conversation . I guess , just for your listeners , that from one GD's copper , that's , too , you know , too stupid to be a fighter pilot . Just

Building Camaraderie Through Communication

Speaker 1 1:05:31

remember why you started this job . Whatever that job is , just remember why you started . Remember all of the people around you are more like you than you think . We may wear different uniforms , have different opinions on many things , but our missions are aligned , more so than you think . Yeah , that's not really a rant , but I guess it's more of a just a to the point .

Speaker 2 1:05:53

I totally agree with that too , and the reason why people are so up themselves these days at these jobs like the cops look at the paramedics and go God , they're up themselves . And the paramedics are looking at the cops , going geez , they're up themselves is because we've become so goddamn isolated . What about we just go and have a chat and break it down ? We've siloed ourselves . It needs to go back to what it was . It's actually a really good terminology . Silo . Have you got anything exciting coming up that you want to share with us ?

Speaker 1 1:06:19

I'm going to be trying to be a bit more consistent with my content on Instagram . I don't know if you've noticed that I've been trying to be much , much more consistent . It was a bit sort of scattergun for a while there , just family work and stuff , and I didn't prioritise it . So I'm trying to be a bit more consistent with getting that out there . I'm going to start doing maybe some gear reviews on YouTube , things of that nature , maybe some Q&A type videos on YouTube to try and do a little bit more YouTube content .

Speaker 1 1:06:46

So we've got some ideas floating around for some collaborations with some of these other positive pages that you speak of . Maybe some merch collabs , things like that .

Speaker 2 1:06:53

I want to see you on a podcast with the Code One crew . I think you two would have a great time . Oh , wouldn't that be good . Maybe I should get you both on together and I should mediate . It'd be fun . Well , that would be good .

Speaker 1 1:07:04

We'd probably get along too well , so you'd have nothing to mediate .

Speaker 2 1:07:07

I probably wouldn't . No , it'd be a fun conversation though . But yeah , that's really good . Now Code One has links . You've got links in your bio to your store as well for people . Are you still selling your merch , or you're not ?

Speaker 1 1:07:20

doing that at the moment ? No , I am , and I guess I want to be clear , though , that this page was never designed to sell things . No , no , no , no . It was created to get that message out there , and a few people said to me once hey , you should do t-shirts , and I was like , yeah , happy days , do that . So I did that . They sold quite well . We did have the opportunity on two occasions to do some charity work as well , with t-shirts which raised thousands of dollars for injured and sadly past officers , which was very humbling to be able to be involved in that .

Speaker 1 1:07:49

So the merch side of things is kind of to the side , but I do do it still . It's kind of like on a print-to-order type thing , but , yeah , there is a link in there . I've got a link tree on Instagram that has all the links on Instagram . Instagram is actually my main one on Facebook , x , youtube , but Instagram is definitely the main platform and that's where I respond . I respond . I respond to everybody , too , on DM , so if you've got something that you want to discuss , I'll respond to everyone .

Speaker 2 1:08:15

Another really good one is as well is Code One does Q&As and people ask questions . He'll share it for people . There's another secure Instagram as well , where people can raise questions with an issue that they might be having , but to put up and put up for comment . It's actually really interesting to read through some of the comments that people put in there to learn what more experienced people , or people that are going through things , have actually got to say around it . You may pick something up that you hadn't considered or thought about as well , which I think is something that's really important as well . So where can people find you ?

Speaker 1 1:08:50

yeah , so , um , on instagram , probably first and foremost would be instagram just code one on everything really facebook x , youtube . There is that instagram page that you just mentioned there . That is a private instagram page . It's called in accordion . You need sort of to message me to be accepted on that one , because I'm trying to keep that first responders only . I totally agree with that . Yep , yeah , and that's more of a , like you said , people pose a question to me on DM . I put it on to a post so it's anonymous , and then people that are in the page can answer questions or give their advice , and it's generally coming from people with decades of service , so it's been quite good for some people .

Speaker 2 1:09:29

Yeah , so I think younger people that are having issues or younger people that are struggling to find their way in certain areas as well , it gives them a chance to almost anonymously ask or in a safe place . That's what you've created a safe place . Now , this is not open to anybody , so people can feel safe . Code One goes through and vets who is actually in there and allowed to be into there and wouldn't boot any dickheads in a heartbeat right Out you go .

Speaker 1 1:09:56

Yeah , it's very specific rules about how that works .

Speaker 2 1:09:58

Yeah , it's not about criticizing people . It's a safe place to just ask a question . What do I do in this situation ? And it's just put up Code 1 . Just puts it up in there as a question and people can answer it , and I think it's a fantastic place that people should be in . Brace yourself . You'll get a flood of people that want to be part of that now as well . But anyway , that's what it's all about , isn't it really ?

Speaker 1 1:10:20

Happy to help .

Speaker 2 1:10:20

Yeah , yeah , that's what it's all about Now . It's Code One , it's C-O-N-E underscore on Instagram . Code underscore one underscore .

Speaker 1 1:10:32

Yeah , and then there's the link tree and it has the links to everything else in my profile .

Speaker 2 1:10:35

Absolutely fantastic Now as a guest of this show here , because I get paid billions of dollars for doing this and what I'm going to do is I get to buy you a holiday house or build you a holiday house anywhere in the world that you would like . Now there's a condition now , because what I did find was , when I asked people this question , what they did was they just said that they would live where they live anyway , which is probably why they're living there in the first place . So what I've said is you have to go and live in it for six months . Whereabouts am I building it for you ? Where have you been or where have you wanted to go ? Now you can take the missus and the kids if you want , or you don't have to . You can just take the dog and go . You can do whatever you like , but for six months you've got to go and live in this house . Whereabouts am I building it ?

Speaker 1 1:11:21

I'm not very well-travelled , rog . I've only ever been outside of the country on two occasions to the United States . That's the only places I've ever been , and obviously you know lots of different places around Australia , but I guess I really like the scenery from that show . Yellowstone have you seen that ? Oh yeah , montana , yeah , so maybe Montana , like a nice country house made of logs or something , with kids running around while I drink coffee on the porch .

Speaker 2 1:11:44

You'd have a bloody big cowboy hat on too , wouldn't you ?

Speaker 1 1:11:51

It would suit you right down to the ground . You'd be rude not to . You'd have to do that . Mate , that sounds like heaven to me kids riding around , mountain backdrop , nice , fresh , crisp air while I drink a nice cup of coffee , or probably my fourth or fifth cup of coffee for the day Fantastic . So Montana Police mate , if you just book a , block over there somewhere .

Speaker 2 1:12:07

That'd be good . I want to say thank you so much for coming on . I really do sincerely appreciate it . I hope people got something out of the podcast here today , because there's a lot of negativity in our organizations and it's time that we spread a little bit of what we can do and how we would go about it . It was great to get your insights because we see them written . It was great to actually get to hear you express your thoughts around them , which are truly valuable , and we really appreciate you coming on the show . So thank you very much .

Speaker 1 1:12:37

I appreciate the opportunity . Rog , Thanks very much , and just got to get out there and be your own solution mate .

Speaker 2 1:12:42

Be your own solution . And there you have it . That's Code One . Fantastic , isn't it ? Very deep thinker Code One , and he really does do , isn't it ? It's a very deep thinker Code One , and he really does do . And what I loved about what he said in the podcast was how he basically created the account by journaling his own reflections and finding solutions and thought , well , if it's a solution for me , maybe it's a solution for somebody else , and I thought that was something that was fantastic .

Speaker 2 1:13:08

I beg you , if you are new , starting in policing today , hang off this term . It's really important . You've got two ears and one mouth . Use them in that order . And you have two ears and one mouth for a very good reason Listen before you speak , and it's just such a really , really good piece of advice . Now go across and follow Code One . He's a ripping bloke and it's something that you've heard resonated with you in the podcast . You can reach out . He will respond to you and just comment on what you thought of the episode . Would be fantastic for both of us . Now , also , if you do get something out of the episode , please share it with your colleagues . Bring other people aware of us . Now , also , if you do get something out of the episode , please share it with your colleagues . Bring other people aware of it .

Speaker 2 1:13:54

It was a bit of a different episode today because it wasn't about evidence-based shift working strategies , but it's something that is probably even more important , and that is about trying to turn it around from where it's at today and getting it more and more positive , because people have got to be their own solution . While you can walk around and you can whinge and complain about management , you can't do anything about it , so what you need to do is be your own solution , and I think we'll finish off on that , because it was just a great episode . Please go and rate and review the podcast if you get a chance . I'd really really appreciate it . It really does help the algorithm to help other people to find the podcast , just like you did , and I will catch you on the next one .

Speaker 2 1:14:44

Thank you for listening . If you enjoyed this episode , be sure to subscribe so you get notified whenever a new episode is released . It would also be ever so helpful if you could leave a rating and review on the app you're currently listening on . If you want to know more about me or work with me , you can go to ahealthyshiftcom . I'll catch you on the next one , thank you .