Plant-Based Protein and Micronutrient Requirements

Speaker 1 0:00

And so you're eating all of the high fat , oily things while you're intoxicated . Your brain says to your liver we must get rid of toxin first over fat and oils . So your liver goes , must process alcohol first .

Speaker 2 0:24

Shift work can be brutal , but it doesn't have to be . Welcome to a healthy shift . My name is Roger Sutherland , certified Nutritionist , veteran Law Enforcement Officer and 24-7 shift worker for almost four decades . Through this podcast , I aim to educate shift workers using evidence-based methods to not only survive the rigours of shift work but thrive . My goal is to empower shift workers to improve their health and wellbeing so they have more energy to do the things they love .

Speaker 2 0:56

Enjoy today's show and hello and welcome back to another episode of a Healthy Shift podcast , your podcast , our podcast , the podcast where I help you with evidence-based strategies around your shift working life to help you to thrive and not just survive . Now I've got Erica Lum back on the podcast today and the reason why I've got Erica back on and if you don't know Erica or you haven't listened to the episode that I had her on before , then you won't realize but Erica , not only is Erica female , not only is Erica a triathlete , but Erica is completely plant-based . Now , I have a lot of plant-based listeners that listen to this podcast and I get a lot of questions through my DMs around it as well . So what I've done is I wanted to drill in on one particular topic with Erica today , and that is how does a plant-based eater as in vegan or vegetarian how do they satisfy their protein and micronutrient requirements ? Quite easily , because it's one thing to say that you're going to be a vegan or you're vegetarian , but how do you eat properly and what do you have to do ?

Speaker 2 2:16

Supplementation , what do you need to take ? Or how do you go about combining everything and putting it together as a vegan triathlete or just as a vegan or plant-based eater full stop ? Because , as I said to you before , it's one thing to actually call yourself a vegan because you're trying to save the planet , but you still have to fuel your body properly . So what I've done is I've got Erica back on the podcast and , without much further ado , I've got Erica back on the podcast and , without much further ado , I want to introduce Erica to you and you can hear what she has to say about how it is . We go about putting things together and welcome back to the show Erica Lum . How are you , erica ?

Speaker 1 2:56

I'm really good , rog , how are you ?

Speaker 2 2:58

Up on the sunny sunshine coast . Up there in Northern Queensland I've just been to the Gold Coast to thaw out for a few days , so I know you're actually able to sit there in a t-shirt , that you are sitting there For those that are able to watch they can see that Me , poor old me , I'm not even going to take this long sleeve quarter zip that I've got on off because I'm freezing out here and we're back in Melbourne . But anyway , can't help that Life's all about choices , isn't it , erica ?

Speaker 1 3:23

Oh , absolutely , and I'm definitely a Queenslander now , rog , because as soon as it hits under 20 degrees , I'm in a jacket and jeans , don't worry .

Speaker 2 3:31

Something wrong with you .

Speaker 2 3:32

I'm still in shorts , but much to the disgust of everyone that knows me , I still wear shorts every single day . Erica , you were on podcast number 81 of mine . We're up to about 150 odd now and it was in August last year . We just had a chat about that . For those that don't know , Erica is a plant-based triathlete . So it's really , really important that we understand , when it comes to being someone who's plant-based , that we understand why it is so important that we make sure that we don't just say , oh , I'm plant-based and eat donuts and pastries and things like that , that we are making sure that we are covering all of the nutrients and the micronutrients that we need to get . So that's why I've got you on here today to cover off on that , because I know we have a lot of shift workers . Well , obviously , we have majority of our shift workers that are listening . You are a 24-7 shift worker , In fact . How about you tell us about what you do in the background , your training and everything else , and let us know who Erica Lum is ?

Speaker 1 4:36

All right , thanks , rog . That was quite a nice intro . I feel like a bit of a phony on the shift worker front , but you'll be happy to hear I'm going back to shift work . So I've been an emergency nurse for 14 years or something like that . But for the past maybe six , seven months I've been doing education . So I've been on a very beautiful Monday to Thursday kind of roster . But you'll be happy to know I am going back to shift work . I'm going back to the ED , to my home . So I think that still counts . But basically I around whatever shifts I'm doing or whatever in terms of my nursing job , I still train for triathlon around that and I also run a small business around that as well .

Speaker 2 5:23

That is fantastic . Now , the important thing that we need to understand here and this is why you're here today because you and I swap an awful lot of messages in the background around plants and proteins and things like that because we know of how important it is to be getting the proteins and our micronutrients and vitamins in if you're going to be someone who is a plant-based . Now the thing is , for those that don't know , in relation to my bulk cookbook that I released , erica is actually the mastermind behind who put the plant-based options into the book for us . Now , what I'll do is I'll link to the books actually in the show notes so that people can have a look at those . But the thing is , I wanted you to have a look at it because I wanted you to be able to look at it properly for what's in it and to make sure that whoever was making the recipe , that they were covering all the macro and micronutrients .

Speaker 2 6:21

Now , the first thing that I want to talk about with you , which is something that's really important , is protein is something that is severely lacking in a plant-based diet for the layman . I'm not talking about an athlete . That you're someone who understands . In fact , you could probably tell us about athletes as well . What's the biggest issue that people that are plant-based have in getting their proteins ?

Speaker 1 6:46

Look , roger , that's an excellent question , honestly , and I think that it has to do with a lot of white noise out there in regards to the plant-based slash vegan space sphere online .

Speaker 1 6:59

Yes , it is true , and I stand by this , that plants do have all the essential amino acids , but how much of that do you have to eat and in terms of the bioavailability of it , that's another whole conversation . But I think the biggest misconception is what people refer to as and you know you'd understand this the complete protein versus non-complete , and I think that when people first start like we've mentioned this before with the elimination process of becoming plant based or vegan , people will eliminate an animal product , but they don't replace that sufficiently , and I think that's where a lot of people fall short . So I think the discussion around legumes , particularly , and beans yes , you can , but it's not going to be of an equal amount of what you need to actually thrive and make this sustainable long-term . You'd have to eat a large amount of legumes to get the complete protein file that you would get from something like tofu or tempeh , and , yeah , that's where I think is the biggest place where people fall short .

Speaker 2 8:10

No doubt at

Complete Proteins on Plant-Based Diet

Speaker 2 8:11

all . Now let's just explain this to people as well . So , when we eat animal protein , there's 20 amino acids , and we get nearly all 20 of them In fact , we do get all 20 of them out of animal protein . Now , these 20 are important , and , in particular , nine of them In fact , we do get all 20 of them out of an animal protein . Now , these 20 are important , and , in particular , nine of them are essential aminos . These are amino acids that our body can't produce in itself , so we need to be getting those amino acids from the food that we're actually eating as well . To form a complete protein , it has to have all nine of those essential amino acids . Now , this is where we run into problems , because with animal proteins , we actually get all nine of those , which means that our body can manufacture all the other amino acids around it and we can then function properly , in particular , the BCAAs and the BCAA leucine , which is actually linked to muscle protein synthesis , which is our muscle growth trigger .

Speaker 2 9:11

Now , what's the problem with a plant-based protein ? We're not going to look at the journey of the soybean at the moment . We will get there , but if I was to pick a legume for argument's sake . And I was to say I'm going to eat a bucket load of legumes . It doesn't contain all of the essential amino acids , does it ?

Speaker 1 9:29

No , that's correct .

Speaker 2 9:30

Right . So the way a plant-based person needs to make a complete protein is you've got to understand that if we don't have all nine essential amino acids , our body just dispels all of them . So we need to make sure that they're all holding hands as they're going through the system , don't we ? Otherwise the histidine turns around and reaches for the leucine , and it's just not there , so it ends up heading off out of the body at the same time . So how does a plant-based dieter when I say dieter , I don't mean someone who's trying to lose weight , someone on a plant-based diet how do they actually make sure that they're getting complete proteins ?

Speaker 1 10:08

So I think that the easiest way to ensure that your protein is complete is that you have to not think of your grains as your main source . They have to be the side piece on your plate and you need to think that they are just the extra . You know , I'm happy to have more , I'm happy to have more protein . Give it to like all of it . But your legumes on your plate , when you look at it , when you're serving up your meal , that should be like considered your fibre or your carb on your plate . Your legumes and your grains should not be your protein source . You know , for example , in comparison to your animal protein , you wouldn't just serve up a fried rice salad with green beans in it . You'd have like a chicken teriyaki on the side . Am I right ?

Speaker 2 10:59

Correct , or would you ?

Speaker 1 11:00

consider your fried rice as your protein source . So I think , when you think of it as an equivalent , that's where people fall short , because they think that the grain or the bean is the protein source and it's just simply not enough .

Speaker 2 11:14

No , while it does have amino acids and proteins in it , it's not what we call a complete protein . So when you scan it into your MyFitnessPal or your chronometer or Mac chronometer or macro first or whatever , it will come up showing you protein , that there's a protein content , but there's insufficient of the essential aminos to make it complete so that it functions as a protein . I know this is really confusing for people that are actually listening , but I really want to make this quite clear to people . Can you tell us then , like for argument's sake , if I was to have a steak and three vegetables , right , those three vegetables are the carbohydrate sources , while the potatoes and the carrot and the beans might have some protein in it , it's not a complete protein in itself , but I'm getting a complete protein from the meat . If we were having brown rice as a side , it's not a complete protein . What would we put with that to make sure that we're having a complete protein source ? Like what would we use as a complete protein source as a plant-based dieter ?

Speaker 1 12:17

So this is where you would want to put something like tofu in your fried rice , or you would have something like tempeh sausages on top of it , something that would be equivalent to like where you would otherwise put your chicken or fish . This is where you have to have your complete sauce . So I think the go-tos for complete sauces , like what I suggested in your alternative recipes , would be tofu , tempeh , what we call TVP , which is textured vegetable protein . You just rehydrate it and your wheat-based ones as well . So I think that having those as part of your plate , even alongside your legumes , your complete dinner and your meal then will become a complete amino acid profile . Does that make sense ? So you don't have to eat the entire block like I do , even if it's just a bit in combination with the others at least . Then it becomes complete in a meal . Does that kind of make sense ?

Speaker 2 13:20

Absolutely . It makes sense . Well , it makes sense to me , but let's just explain that to the listeners as well , because I totally get what you're saying . If you have a profile of a bit of everything , it actually tends to cover the whole amino acid profile with the nine essentials that we actually need . Now , when we talk about that , we talk about , like some people have a pea protein and if you have a pea protein , that's not enough because it's not actually carrying all nine essentials that we need . But if you were to mix that with brown rice , so if you had peas with brown rice , you're going to get a complete profile out of both of them , because what one's weak in the other , one's strong in as well . And that's why , as a plant-based eater , we've got to make sure that we have variety and we can't just sit there and make sure that we go , oh , I've got brown rice and it's coming up as showing protein . Because I want to make sure that people understand the importance of protein as well and because we talk about protein , protein , protein , and everyone thinks to themselves oh , gym bro walking around with a shaker in the , you know , in a string of singlet around the gym . But but it's just not that . Protein's just so essential for our satiety . It keeps us feeling fuller for longer . It's not only that , but it's the building blocks of all muscle and tissue in our body , or all tissues in our body as well . It helps with the repair of them . The other thing is it also is a really good support for our immune system as well protein . So we've got to make sure that we're getting all of those in .

Speaker 2 14:49

This is where a lot of plant-based eaters as well fall sick a lot , even though they think , oh , I'm plant-based , and when we talk plant-based , let's open it up and keep it honest as well . We're talking vegan , vegetarian as well , but when we talk plant-based , we are in a position where people can be quite ill . They can become quite ill because they're not covering some of the things that they need to get from what an omnivore eater gets out of their diet . So let's just go through some of the things that you , as a plant-based , have to be very mindful of to make sure that you are including in your diet so that you are getting exactly what it is that you need . So I can think of a few , but I'll let you tell us what you actually need to make sure that you're putting into your diet that you can't get because you don't eat a meat .

Speaker 1 15:42

Yeah , I think that this is where I'm going to digress from your protein thing for a second and just really reiterate the fact that everyone should be taking this supplement anyway . But creatine comes from food . You can make a little bit yourself , but I think that the plant-based community really need to understand that , because that mostly comes from animal products . You need to be able to supplement with creatine monohydrate to ensure that you're not missing out on that one . But I think this is a space that has quite a lot of noise and the best way to succeed is to just think about things on a like chemical , cellular level of what your body needs .

Speaker 1 16:31

And it comes back to that argument of yes , you can take away things , but you need to be able to replace them with something that is equal to , if not better than , the thing that you've eliminated . And so to the community that just take it all away and think that all of the sugary things , because you're actually just your brain's needing glucose and so you go through these sugar highs of the vegan chocolates and the like , just because it's plant based doesn't mean it's good for you . I think that every single person faces the same dilemma , in a sense of I want to be healthier , I want to be better , I want to do the best I can for myself , my body and my longevity , and I face the same dilemma as an omnivore or any other diet of what am I choosing to put on my plate ? It's the same concept . It's just that your protein sources are coming from somewhere different , but I still need to choose whether I put that on there or not . You can still be an unhealthy vegan .

Speaker 2 17:41

I've seen many , many unhealthy vegans that run around saying I'm a vegan . I'm a vegan . Why are you a vegan ? Oh , because I'm protecting the animals and I just want to go vegan . Okay , that's fine , no problems at all . But the fact that you're eating donuts and croissants and sitting there doing things like that , it doesn't mean that you're a healthy vegan . So we don't necessarily associate health with plant-based , with veganism or vegetarian .

Speaker 2 18:08

Smart vegetarians and vegans that understand that they need to cover all of that spectrum of vitamins and minerals we call them micronutrients when you make sure that you know that you need to cover all of those things , because there are things that we do get from meat that we can't get from plant-based . To back over your creatine everyone should be on creatine , whether you're an omnivore or whether you're plant-based , you should be on creatine full stop . And for anyone that's a shift worker that's listening to this so much research now around creatine for shift workers in particular , because of the extended periods of wakefulness that they have . And if you bump your creatine up to 10 grams instead of 5 grams and you take 10 grams every day , it actually helps to support the creatine to cross the blood-brain barrier , go into the brain and actually help to support us with cognitive function while we have those extended periods of wakefulness as well . So while we do get creatine out of meat , we never get enough , and creatine is something that is the most researched supplement , so we'll go with that .

Speaker 2 19:12

Can you hit me with another one that's essential for a plant-based eater to make sure that they're covering either supplement form or where can they get it ? I zinc's one , isn't it ? Iodine , sorry iodine zinc .

Speaker 1 19:24

I think that too , it depends on the type of protein powder you're going to supplement with , because I'm not going to lie like I think the only way that you can get a lot of the leucine in particularly is to supplement with a shake . You just have to be mindful of just the pea protein ones in isolation , but you can get pea and brown rice mix shakes now that have a complete protein profile .

Speaker 2 19:50

And they taste delicious too , don't they ? They used to taste very dirty , but a lot of them have become really good now .

Speaker 1 19:56

Yeah , piranha , make a really good pea , and brown rice blend . They do right on , and blestie is very good as well but yeah , I think that just having that understanding that , like you said , you need to think about your protein synthesis for your muscles and those types of things , so you need to be able to have leucine , and the highest percentage of leucine per whatever gram you want to eat is soy .

Speaker 2 20:20

Yeah , soy . Now let's talk about the journey of the soybean . Because we talk about soy , I hear people order soy lattes and I think , okay , you get a soy latte . Soy is so much more than that , erica , and I know that you're in love with the soy . I want you to talk about the journey of the soybean , in how many different ways it comes , because soy is a complete protein and I just want to put it on the table and make it quite clear to people as well . Soy is perfectly safe for males to have as well as females , right ?

Speaker 1 20:49

Oh , yeah , that totally got debunked .

Speaker 2 20:52

So much noise around that that soy is all bad for males , bad for too much estrogen . It boosts the estrogen , but it's actually quite

Plant-Based Diet Protein and Nutrients

Speaker 2 20:59

good . Talk about the journey of the soybean it grows and it comes as a bean . What do we do with it from there ?

Speaker 1 21:58

So it basically goes through a fermentation process and during the different stages of its fermentation you get different types of food products with it . So your percentage of total protein it can vary depending on how much it is processed . So I tend to go with firm tofu as much as I can and tempeh as much as I can , because it's sort of the least processed version of it . And then your silken tofus are after that . So that's when you can make like your desserts and those types of things with the soft blended tofu and then you can get your dehydrated version of that which is called textured vegetable protein . So basically they just take the tofu and they take all of the fluid and the water out of it . So it's completely dehydrated in this perfect little grain kind of like . It looks like mince but it's dried and you just add water to it and it rehydrates it . So it's basically shrinking it down to like it's like the soybean version of a sultana and you just sort of have all of that nutrient still in there and you just reactivate it .

Speaker 2 23:09

You introduced me to TVP because I'd never heard of it and I thought , oh , what's that ? And then you said TVP and you showed me and you can pick it up at the local supermarkets and things like that and it's a really good mince alternative , isn't it ? Something that people can use , like in their bolognese ? You can use TVP for a really high protein bolognese , Is that right ?

Speaker 1 23:30

Yep , I use it for bolognese , I use it for casseroles which is actually on my meal prep list for this week Chili con carne , that type of texture . So , whatever you want to do to replace , like your beef mince , like TVP , will do it .

Speaker 2 23:43

Okay , now tell me what's the protein content of that like ? Because I looked at it and I thought now , if I can make a mince out of it , right , if I can make , I can make a shepherd's pie out of it , I can make chili out of it , I can make a casserole out of it , I could make lasagna out of it . There's a lot of things that I could make out of this to get my protein . How much protein's actually in it , eric ? I know because you've told me and it blew my mind , but it's actually a really , really high protein source , isn't it it ?

Speaker 1 24:10

is so per serving it's 26.4 .

Speaker 2 24:16

Grams of protein .

Speaker 1 24:17

Correct per serve Per 100 grams is 52.8 .

Speaker 2 24:22

Okay , now that's 100 grams of dehydrated , isn't it ? That's 100 grams out of the packet . How much would you make with that , like if I was making a bolognese ? Is that a as 100 grams ? Is that far too much for a single serving of bolognese , or would that be about right ?

Speaker 1 24:36

So basically 100 grams , which is one cup right Equivalent . So when I make a big bolognese for my meal prep , I put two to two and a half cups in the whole bolognese mix .

Speaker 2 24:48

And that , sorry , how many grams would that be ? Like 250 . About 250 grams . So you're going to get about 140 grams of protein in your bolognese that you're going to divide up over how many bologneses would you get out of that ? Roughly Four . That's fantastic , isn't it Like ? Really , if you look at that , you're going to be getting a solid amount of protein in that . This is how vegans and vegetarians can actually get their protein in . Because it looks like a mint Now I don't know what it tastes like because I've got no idea , but at the end of the day- .

Speaker 1 25:22

It's kind of tasteless . You can flavor it to whatever you want and it's so versatile . That's the beauty of it .

Speaker 2 25:31

That was going to be my next thing . This is why we have Meat Free Monday in our house . I'll tell you why we do meat free monday . As another reason because if there's one thing that vegans and vegetarians can do and I'm going to say this quite categorically they can make shit taste like sugar , right , yeah ?

Speaker 2 25:46

100% agree because you learn how to use herbs and spices around your foods to make food taste awesome . And if there's one thing that I've learned and I've got and you know , and anyone that follows me on social media knows I've got a massive passion for cooking and I absolutely love doing it . Hence the reason why I pushed out the recipe books for people to actually learn to cook some of the things that I cook as well , to make it easy . But the thing is , when you learn to cook plant-based and I highly recommend that people do there's some fantastic Instagram accounts around that show you how to cook plant-based and these people are very clever because what they do and what I'll do in the show notes .

Speaker 2 26:27

I'm going to link to my two favorite accounts , actually as far as cooking vegan and vegetarian cooking goes , because I have two accounts that I follow in particular that I just absolutely love and I know that they are covering a lot of the different types of recipes to make sure that they're covering a broad spectrum . Not only are they making it a complete protein , but they're also making it unbelievably delicious . You can make fantastic curries and things like that . There's some really , really good recipes there . Now , just sorry we got sidetracked there , but I want to go back to what type of vitamins that we need to be mindful of and taking or that we can get from certain foods . So one of them that a vegan should be doing is certainly B12 , shouldn't they ? They've got to be taking B12 along the way Really important , because it's something that we get from meat . Can you get it in a vegan diet or not ?

Speaker 1 27:21

No , you do have to supplement . So you either can get and this is what I take just the 1,000 microgram once a day tablet .

Speaker 2 27:30

Oh , you take one a day , yep .

Speaker 1 27:31

Yes , I do , I take one a day . Yep , yes , I do , I take one every day . If you're finding that too difficult , people can actually get injections . So you can get B12 injections . If that's something that you want to discuss with your doctor , I probably should put a disclaimer out there medically , that I strongly believe that if anyone wants to go down this path of plant-based , if anyone wants to go down this path of plant-based , that you need to do it smart , to have longevity in it . So I think once you start eliminating things you need to have like that I've been doing it for three months let me just go get my blood work done , just check the B12 . And then , if you're all good at that three months , it means you're doing something right . If you're not , then you need to go back and adjust your diet .

Speaker 2 28:16

Yeah , absolutely Very important that you get your blood work done , and here in Australia we're very lucky because we can get our blood done quite often , and it really is something that's quite simple to do , because the blood work is the window into our body and it really does tell us where we're at , because it's one thing to go vegan , vegetarian , or one thing to go plant-based . It's another thing to make sure that you're covering these essential vitamins and minerals that you need to put into your diet . Now , one of the other things that we can talk about as well , because people talk about , oh , red meat , cutting red meat out .

Speaker 2 28:48

What about your iron ? Now , there's two different types of iron . You and I've had this in the background as well , and I want to cover off on it . There's heme iron , which comes from meat , which is a very important absorbable iron , but then there's also iron that we can get from our leafy greens as well . Talk to me about iron and the considerations for iron , because a lot of females are iron deficient , and so if you were to swap over from a meat-eating diet and cross across to a vegan , vegetarian-type diet , you could leave yourself severely short of iron .

Speaker 1 29:21

I couldn't agree more , rog . I think that iron deficiency is one of those things that affect a lot of plant-based eaters , but particularly our female population . Regardless , I think that due to a lot of other things like our reproductive health , et cetera , we are very susceptible to iron deficiency anemia , and I think there's also the cohort group that have . You know , if you have an impaired gut microbiome , you can have iron deficiency anemia as well . Something from like blastocystis , for example , like a very common gut parasite . You can get iron deficiency from that as well . I think that the take-home message is that you can get enough iron in your diet by having those leafy greens , but you need to ensure that they are with every meal , and and if you can't get them with every meal , then you need to think of something like a powder if you want to , or iron supplementation , and I think that people also get it wrong where they think they can just have the leafy greens for the iron , but you need the vitamin C to be its uber to the party .

Speaker 2 30:32

Correct . This is why you need to have these discussions with someone who understands , Someone like Erica , that you can say all right , I've been told that I'm calcium deficient or I'm vitamin D deficient or I'm vitamin C deficient or whatever . How can I build these things up in my diet ? Can you just tell us yourself , because you've been plant-based for a long time and I know that ?

Speaker 1 30:54

How many years oh , I'd be about 13 .

Speaker 2 30:57

13 years . Okay , so you understand . You're obviously clearly a healthy woman and you cover everything . You're a young , healthy woman . You triathlete , you shift work , you do the whole lot , so you're covering what you need . What do you supplement ? What is there that you know that you need ? You've learnt to eat a lot of things to make sure you're covering things . You get your bloods done , but what is there that you know that you have to supplement daily ?

Speaker 1 31:22

So because I know what I have to eat , I don't actually need to supplement that much . But that's only because I'm completely conditioned to know what I have to eat every day . I think that when you're first starting out , you're you need to supplement with B12 . You have to , and then , like I said , you get that blood work done , follow up B12 . Iron with vitamin C is essential to supplement and I think that if you have enough diversity of plant foods , you shouldn't need to supplement more than that . Plant foods . You shouldn't need to supplement more than that .

Speaker 1 32:10

I'm a strong believer in the whole food , plant-based type of vibe . Over the , I'm just taking things away and still going to eat nothing that has any nutritional value . So the more diversity you have on your plate in terms of how many plants you need to eat per week to make you have a good , strong , healthy immune system , then that should be sufficient . But it does take time to get there and it takes practice and it takes quite a lot of self-discipline to cook what you know you need to eat . So , yeah , it's a pretty hard one . But definitely vitamin C , iron and B12 . I would not skip those if you're just starting out .

Speaker 2 32:53

I hope you're enjoying the show . Are you really struggling with shift work ? Are you sick and tired of the brain fog , fatigue and the endless cycle of dieting or putting on weight ? Spots in my full-time coaching are very limited because of the time I give to each client . So , to help as many people as I can , I've added another layer to my coaching one-to-one consultations .

Speaker 2 33:13

As a veteran shift worker and evidence-based nutritionist , I give you the opportunity to ask me anything . We'll have a one-to-one consult with you to discuss strategies relevant to your life . Numerous people are taking this option and they're getting enormous benefit out of one-to-one consultations . Oh and , as an FYI , you don't have to be a shift worker to do this . If this is something that you would like to do , then follow the link in the show notes one-to-one consults , Complete the form and then you will have access to my calendar to book a time that is convenient to you . Let's discuss strategies bespoke to you . Now let's get back to the show . I'm curious , Erica , why vitamin C ? Considering vitamin C is so easy to get from things like capsicum or , for the American friends , bell peppers , why would you need to supplement vitamin C ?

Speaker 1 34:08

Purely for the iron uptake , okay . So then , whatever I'm consuming through my diet , it will be excess . But if you're taking it at the same time as your iron , if you're going to buy an iron supplement anyway , I think that a plant-based person should get the combo , just to ensure that you're having that uptake and absorption of iron .

Speaker 2 34:29

Yep , that you're covering it all . I love it . I think that's fantastic and it's really important that people understand . This is the critical side I see of being plant-based . Now , you are an athlete , so you want your body to perform optimally all the time , and we do underestimate

Plant-Based Diet

Speaker 2 34:49

as a shift worker as well , and you're not a fraud because you've done shift work for a long time , so you do totally get it . You might be a fraud at the moment because you let us down and you haven't been doing it .

Speaker 1 34:59

I'm totally a fraud . At the moment I'm in education .

Speaker 2 35:03

I'm a bit in education myself at the moment too , so it'd be fair to say that I'm not really doing my own shift work at the moment . So I think we're on the same page there and you're going back to . You've got a really broad knowledge of what it's like to shift work and things , and we do really . We know what it's like to come home and be exhausted and how much easier it is to just throw something together and eat it . But we really do need to make sure .

Speaker 2 35:28

The point of this whole podcast is to make sure that you do your research . Make sure that you don't just go oh I love temper , I'll just cook up some temper and I'll just put a bit of this with it . Make sure that you're getting what you need . That's the important thing , because read up , learn about it , make sure , Because Erica's journey is not one that actually started six months ago and here she is performing optimally . This is something that started , like she said , 13 years ago , and now she , without thinking she now knows that she needs all these things to make sure she's covering everything . Is there anything else that you would like to say on the plant-based side of things ? Is it easy to live as a plant-based dieter ?

Speaker 1 36:07

I think it's definitely easy once you get into a routine and understand it's the exact same as everyone else . You don't have to feel singled out , you don't have to feel like the minority . My mindset now compared to when I first started . So when I first went plant-based all those years ago , like I guarantee you , I was underdone . Like nutrient wise , I 100% guarantee you , I was always tired , found it hard to focus all of those things , the constant sugar crashes , because all I'm needing is like my brain is just like you need more glucose . Like sugar , sugar , sugar , sugar . Like once you have that feeling like you mentioned at the start of the episode Rog , of feeling full , actually being able to focus and concentrate because you're hitting that protein target with every meal , I just want to say to all those plant-based people out there , like you will feel all of a sudden like a whole new person . It's like this layer gets lifted up over your eyes of just like , oh my gosh , how was I existing before ? You know ? Like it's just one of those things , but it's . It can be life changing . And also , you can like recipes , like you said about your meatless Monday , like yeah , they're exciting and you can make them full of flavor , but if you've got tofu on rotation , who cares ? Like you've got a better quality of life , like it's just one of those things where I think , stick with what you know .

Speaker 1 37:52

I know that there's a vast amount of research out there and I think that you know Tim Spector is big on this one . Like , you have to have like a certain amount of diversity of plants every week to meet like a quota . So as long as every plate every time you eat does it have 30 grams plus of complete protein , like tofu ? Yes , do I have fiber in form of my legumes and extra , you know , phytonutrients and stuff ? Yes , they're there . Do I have a longstanding carbohydrate like a sweet potato or a rice ? Yes , that's there too .

Speaker 1 38:32

The same challenges that anyone else faces who's trying to eat healthier and have a different lifestyle Plant-based people don't feel like you can't go on that journey as well , because you face the exact same challenges that every other single person faces of being tempted by treats at the supermarket , et cetera , et cetera . So the big take home is don't think that your legumes by themselves , in a small amount , are sufficient , because that's just not true . No , it's not . And I think the other thing that I wanted to point out as well , which is something that you just not true .

Speaker 2 39:03

No , it's not . And I think the other thing that I wanted to point out as well which is something that you just touched on there which we haven't really talked about but the by-product of being plant-based is the enormous amount of fiber that a plant-based vegan eater has in their diet . If they are following it properly , if they're reading , all the right plants and fibers and beans , nuts , seeds , legumes , getting all of those things , whole grains , getting all of those in the byproduct of a lot of fiber in your diet is full-on health , I don't care what anyone says , it's full-on health . It helps you with your gut microbiome , which is going to produce those long-chain fatty acids , which is going to really help you with so much in your health . The other thing is it also helps to really really support your immunity .

Speaker 2 39:58

Again , here we are and we're talking about shift workers , so making sure that we're putting a lot of plants . When we think plants , we don't have to think of a tree and lot of plants , and when we think plants , we don't have to think of a tree and a piece of broccoli . When we think plants , nuts and seeds are plants , right , so let's think about all of those sort of things . Soy , tempeh , TVP and things like that are all plants , right , and we're getting a lot of fiber and we're getting a lot of protein from that as well . And by mixing it all up all the colors we talk about all the colors on the plate we are making sure that we're covering all the different micronutrients as well as that .

Speaker 2 40:36

So I think getting that fiber in there's no downside to getting the fiber in and getting it through your diet . But this is the two biggest problems that I see and you would see this for sure as a coach that trains athletes

Alcohol-Free Lifestyle and Health Benefits

Speaker 2 40:48

. Number one is the severe lack of protein in a person's diet . Number two is the severe lack of fiber in their diet as well , and they underestimate the value of both of those , don't they , Erica ?

Speaker 1 40:59

Yeah , people need to just think about it in a really simple way . Like you and I have also spoken about this through our you know messages and whatnot that I you know I'm not an expert in this field . Hopefully that will change soon but I'm not an expert in this field right now , so I can only advise so much . But I think that it's quite you know common knowledge to think , yes , you need that long sustained , sustained complex carbohydrate and you want to have that drawn in , but how does it get there and stay as this long burning energy and you know , fiber is the uber that the carb needs to take to the party , to stay there , to give you this long sustained energy during the day , and so to have just sugars and carbohydrates . I love carbs , I'm all for carbs , particularly for athletes , but sometimes you need to think about the other benefits of fiber as well , and I think it's just so underrated fiber .

Speaker 2 41:59

Oh , totally underrated for so many reasons . There's no piece of research that goes against fibre . None . Fibre is just so important to our diet . All right , let's put that to bed . Let's talk about a little celebration . Quite accidentally , we're both having this celebration at the moment , aren't we Tell me about what you did just before Christmas and the impact that it's had on your life ?

Speaker 1 42:22

Rog , I'm alcohol free .

Speaker 2 42:25

That's scary to say . That's scary to say , that's scary to say , but you've gone alcohol free since before Christmas . Now I put on my Instagram story that you know I'm alcohol free and you went . Oh , when did that happen ? And I said I stopped alcohol on the 1st of January . Now , the 1st of January , it was my New Year's resolution . I'm done and I'm not drinking alcohol anymore , and I can tell people categorically that this episode of the podcast is recorded at the end of June and I'm coming up to six months and you will be over six months now . Well done , how do you feel in all honesty and I'm going to talk about the social side of it afterwards , but I just want to talk about how you feel in yourself- I feel in myself just clearer in my mind , like I know that sounds kind of weird , but I feel a bit more clear in my thought processes .

Speaker 1 43:21

I feel my sleep quality has improved . I feel my sleep quality has improved . I feel like a whole new type of joy for life . I feel more energetic and I don't feel any pressure socially really , and I feel like I know this is going to sound so totally weird , but I feel at peace with myself for the relationship I had with alcohol . So I feel content . I guess is what I'm trying to say .

Speaker 2 43:55

I love it . Did you drink a lot before ? I mean , you are an athlete and you've done tries , so you would have been mindful . But were you much of a drinker before you gave up ? Or were you like one or two a week , or what ? How would you describe yourself ?

Speaker 1 44:08

yeah , one or two a week , but I think it was more the obscure relationship I had with alcohol , like I think we mentioned this briefly , but it was like why am I trying to live this healthy lifestyle and telling myself that zero calorie seltzers are still okay , even though alcohol's making me feel this way ? So it was like I had this , this weird sort of period in my life where I was trying to justify my drinking by having healthy drinks yeah , skinny bitch drinks yeah vodka and um soda water or rum yeah , right where .

Speaker 1 44:50

Like if I was out with friends and I was ordering a drink , I wouldn't even ask for soda because of the salt content , only sparkling . But it's alcohol , like it was just . It was just a wild ride .

Speaker 2 45:05

I've got to tell you and I'll say this from my perspective I don't miss it one bit , and people would say to me really , like , really , you don't miss it .

Speaker 2 45:13

I don't miss it at all . Now , melissa , my partner , she'll still have a drink every now and again and I'm not even the slightest bit tempted . I'm over it , right . I am absolutely completely over it . I've never been over it , right , I'm absolutely completely over it .

Speaker 2 45:29

I've got a couple of friends that I go out with regularly . We have what we call an off-site , non-minuted meeting and we're all people that worked together and we have an off-site , non-minuted meeting where we just unload . They will both sit and drink . I drink my zero beers . I do have a zero beer because I just feel like I'm just having a beer with the group and that's probably not even good as well . But I know I don't need to . I drive now and I actually quite enjoy driving to a function and driving home without having to go through the inconvenience of doing anything else .

Speaker 2 46:00

I went out for dinner with some people the other night and they really , really pushed this bottle of red wine which I thought sounded pretty divine , but I just wasn't even tempted . I just was not even tempted , and I haven't touched a drop since the 1st of January , and I think that's the way it's got to be . Congratulations , thank you , and the same to yourself as well , because there's no healthy amount of alcohol to drink in a week and I don't care what anyone says . There is not Knowing what alcohol actually does to our body and how our body treats alcohol . There is nothing good to come from it . That's the problem .

Speaker 2 46:37

So when you go out and you go , oh , I need to work drinks into my fitness pal , how do I track alcohol so that I can have a couple of drinks every week If you need them ? You've got a problem . Don't get me wrong . But you have People say , oh , but it relaxes me ? Yeah , it does . But if you weren't drinking and you got that good sleep now , don't get me wrong , I'm not going to be that ex-smoker that says , oh , it's bad , this bad , bad , bad , bad . I'm not that person . But we've just got to understand the impact that alcohol has on our system . We make poor food choices when we're on alcohol

Alcohol Impact and Lifestyle Changes

Speaker 2 47:09

as well . What we do we'll sit there and have a drink and then all of a sudden we're into the nuts and the chips and you know Totally .

Speaker 1 47:16

And I think it needs to be an informed choice , like smoking's an informed choice . The research is well on that and the research for alcohol is also there . It's an informed choice . And so the other observation physically for me , my body comp has changed . Hey , like I know this sounds it's very weird , but I it's nearly like I had those just that little bit that I couldn't get rid of , around the abdo when I was drinking , and three months after not drinking , that's totally gone and it's been maintained like but nothing else had changed . My training's still the same , you know , my food is still the same . So it's like , oh , was that alcohol , literally ? Or the poor choices I made when I was drinking , literally just sitting there . And that has shifted without me changing anything .

Speaker 2 48:14

Yeah , I think one of the biggest impacts , without doubt people sit there and they have a couple of drinks because they feel like they need it to relax . You need to find something else . I'm sorry , but you just got to find something else , because alcohol is severely impacting on so many aspects of your life and it is . It's putting your body under huge pressure and we make poor choices food-wise , even in a calorie deficit . Let's talk about it . You can track everything and track your alcohol as well , and you can be in a calorie deficit , but it's important for you to understand that while you drink alcohol , your body parks everything else at that time , because it's going to process the poison , which is the alcohol , and while it's parked , it may not retrieve it again .

Speaker 1 48:55

all right , so like the human body is an amazing thing and the liver is the most fascinating organ , like I'm gonna put my nurse brain on for a second , like completely . But it can only handle so much at one time . And so you're eating all of the high fat oily things while you're intoxicated . Your brain says to your liver we must get rid of toxin first , over fat and oils . So your liver goes , must process alcohol first . But then what happens to your poor gallbladder with all of the maccas and stuff that you've eaten while you've been intoxicated ?

Speaker 2 49:37

The kebab .

Speaker 1 49:37

Yeah , we're trying to process all this fat and oils and stuff and you can end up with like gallstones and all the rest of it , even though it's only because your liver was doing its job .

Speaker 2 49:49

Spot on , erica , that's the thing . So congratulations to you , in fact , congratulations to us . And once again , it was just ironic , wasn't it ? Because I posted and you went . Oh my God , I stopped just before Christmas and here we are and here we still are , and I , honestly , I know people say you give it away and then you just have a drink every now and again . I'm not going to be that person . I'm an all or nothing type of person and I just won't go back to it because I'm just not interested in any way whatsoever . So that's the way I'll go .

Speaker 1 50:18

Yeah , me too . Congratulations , rog . It really is an achievement and I think with the social pressures and stuff it's hard sometimes to go against the grain . So congratulations to you and us . It's a big thing .

Speaker 2 50:31

Absolutely , we can talk from a position of experience in relation to alcohol . We know what it's like . I'm a Victorian , so I know that the alcohol took hold through COVID and caused major problems , because all we could do was drink and watch Netflix and order Uber . That was all we could do , although we fell in love with cooking through COVID , which was one of the biggest bonuses that came out of it , but anyway , it was such a tricky one with that Rog Just going to put my frontline worker hat on that one it was a double-edged sword .

Speaker 1 51:03

Yes , a lot of us just sat and had a lot of alcohol in lockdown . But if there was no access to alcohol , a lot of people would have had alcohol withdrawal , seizures and things like that who are dependent on alcohol , which would have put more stress on our emergency departments and ambulance services . So I can see why they kept alcohol accessible . But unfortunately now in the aftermath and hindsight's a wonderful thing it seems that through the pandemic there has been a new level of dependence on alcohol from people who had it , particularly down south . So you know , I just hope that people can access support services that they need and I can't think of any off the top of my head , but I'm sure you'll put some in the show notes if you need to think about cutting down or giving up alcohol completely .

Speaker 2 51:57

Yeah , there's some great accounts around . Actually , one of the good accounts that I followed , which actually tipped me over , was James Swanick , who actually is part of Swanick the people that do the blue light blocking glasses and he was one of the original founders . And I reached out to him but he said , no , I'm no longer with the company . I'm one of the owners , obviously , but he goes . I do all the alcohol-free stuff now . So I started following and looking at that and it was just the way he spoke about it and I thought , yeah , I can relate to all that . I can really relate to that . And I found that it was without doing any course or anything like that . That was it Bang . I just went . No more for me and I haven't gone back . Anyway , fantastic , erica , are you coaching people at the moment ?

Speaker 1 52:40

I am .

Speaker 2 52:41

Yes , are you looking for people to help with performance , athleticism and plant-based diets ?

Speaker 2 52:48

Yeah absolutely Well , where can they find you ? Then Tell people whereabouts they can find you . And if people want to reach out because if someone comes to me and they're an athlete and they're plant-based , I'm going to send them your way anyway at this point in time because I think you know it's got to be horses for courses . But if you're looking for someone who , once again , you've said that you're not actually certified in it but you've got a lot of your own evidence that you can support people in and around as to how to go about doing what they're doing and training and doing triathletes , whereabouts can they find you ?

Speaker 1 53:23

You can find me at etltricoaching on Instagram and the website is the exact same , so wwwetltricoachingcom . I respond pretty quickly to DMs similar as you . Rog , like I'm always available and I guess that with my coaching and business I do help shift workers as well . I guess that with my coaching and business I do help shift workers as well , I guess in terms of just time management stuff and different shifts and how you can train and incorporate athleticism into your everyday life . So if that sounds like something that people want , you know where to find me fantastic .

Speaker 2 54:03

Reach out , give out , give Erica a yell . She's an absolute sweetheart . She will definitely help you along those lines . So reach out and say hello and let us know what you thought of the episode as well . So thanks very much for coming on . Erica and you and I will talk soon .

Speaker 1 54:19

Thanks Rog .

Speaker 2 54:20

And there you have it . That's Erica Lum , the triathlete , female triathlete and also completely plant-based . I use her . She's my absolute go-to when it comes to anything that I need around plant-based . She's given me some absolutely fantastic ideas , which have been incredibly helpful to pass on to clients around the ways to put really good meals together . As I said , erica contributed to the recipe book the vegan recipe book that we've put together and released , which is in the store on healthyshiftcom . You can go and find that there . She helped me put that one together . And also , don't hesitate to reach out to Erica if you are an athlete and she will certainly help you to cover all of your nutrition requirements as a plant-based eater , which is extremely important that you do .

Speaker 2 55:15

All right , so that's it . Thank you so much for joining the show . If you've got any benefit out of this , please don't hesitate . Let Erica know , let myself know , that you've enjoyed the show . Make sure that you hit follow , turn on your notifications and , if you'd be ever so kind , please leave a review , because it really really does help us , and a rating . It really really does help to get the show to elevate in the rankings , which is so important for all of us to get our shift working environments thriving and not just surviving . Thank you for listening . If you enjoyed this episode , be sure to subscribe so you get notified whenever a new episode is released . It would also be ever so helpful if you could leave a rating and review on the app you're currently listening on . If you want to know more about me or work with me , you can go to ahealthyshiftcom . I'll catch you on the next one .