Night Shift Retirement and Bonds

Speaker 1 0:00

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Speaker 2 0:33

Let's set the tone for a healthy shift . It is the night shift . What do we know about those that are working on the night shift ? Well , Roger knows all about it . A healthy shift . Well , Roger knows all about it . A healthy shift . Rog coaches workers to thrive , not just survive . Working on the night shift To give you more energy , Things we love to do outside their shift-working lives why not he ?

Speaker 4 1:02

was a friend of mine and he could sing my song .

Speaker 2 1:08

And he's just retired . How many years at Vic Pol Roger retiree ?

Speaker 5 1:16

Good morning . Good morning to you , tony , how are you this morning ? 40 years and four days . 40 years and four days . I finished on Saturday .

Speaker 2 1:24

Now how does it feel after , when you think about it ? All those years ago at Glen Waverley and just gone out after 40 years and four days , how does that feel ?

Speaker 5 1:34

It's actually quite incredible . I got together on Saturday , I took my partner with me and we went to the Mail Exchange Hotel just across the road down here , yeah , just around the corner .

Speaker 5 1:45

Just around the corner , I collected 12 of my ex-squad mates . We got together and we had choir practice . A few beers , choir practice , choir practice . Yeah , a bit of choir practice . Amazing Grace Never laughed so much in my whole , I've got to tell you . I can't remember the last time I laughed as much as that . Tony , we had such a good day . Melissa was buckled . She could hardly talk and buckled , laughing , crying , and when we left- .

Speaker 2 2:17

Because of your behavior , or because of some of the great stories that were being told , just the stories that we ?

Speaker 5 2:20

could tell . That only we could tell amongst ourselves , obviously . But Melissa made a really good observation , tom . When we left , melissa said to me do you ever consider the fact that , like , how often have you seen these people and been around these people ? And I said , well , I haven't really seen them . For you know , other than our anniversaries , which was 30 years , we couldn't do a 35 because of COVID , which was 30 years .

Speaker 2 2:43

We couldn't do a 35 because of COVID . So when you go through the academy , then all those years ago and you probably connect with , I'm thinking , a group of 20 or more perhaps 27 started , 27 started so then you go through the academy together . How much time , once you're invested , do you spend ?

Speaker 5 3:00

together 20 weeks , and that was the point . That was it . It was from August the 20th .

Speaker 5 3:06

August the 20th 1984 to December the 20th 1984 was . We were together in that period of time and it's a bond like no other . We just all get each other . And Melissa said when she left I can't believe that you people haven't been together for 40 years and you just all are like family , you just click . And I never , ever , ever underestimate the value that Victoria Police has given in those bonds as we go . It's an absolute brotherhood , it's a family and we just absolutely loved it and a sisterhood .

Speaker 5 3:46

The girls were the girls are great because we were 1984 when we went through I think we had six girls in our squad , where some of the squads are 50-50 and things like that . Now a lot of girls . But one of the girls was saying it was funny because when she was turning up to jobs people were saying , oh , got a policewoman here , you know , back in the 80s . And we hit the road obviously in 1984 and went through the 80s where you know crime was serious crime . Like I'm not saying it's not today , but we had blokes running around doing armed robberies on banks and Armour Guard vans and you know it was pretty serious . Now it's mainly soft targets .

Speaker 2 4:24

I have a great mate who will be listening in Adelaide Peter Graham , who served and became a commander and looked after the back in the day was responsible for F1 in Adelaide , adelaide , yes . And Pete's been a great mate for many , many decades , over 40 years . The point of that story is that he says that the baddies I've got to be paraphrasing a little bit , but he said the baddies were- different then ?

Speaker 5 4:48

Oh , totally different , and this is what I was literally going to tell you . I have that was a mutual respect both ways . That was the difference . And your mate will tell you that If they were nailed , they were nailed . That was it . You know it was okay hands up , it wasn't that easy , but there was a lot more respect both ways , a bit like you know the movie Heat , where Robert De Niro and it's just the best film ever because it's the two respectful oppositions from each side , and that's pretty much what it was like back in the 80s .

Speaker 5 5:26

We've totally lost our way now . Um , unfortunately , although we've got Vossi on our team now you do how incredible is that ? How incredible is that if you were going to think of a footballer from the past that did it , it'd be Vossi , wouldn't it ?

Speaker 2 5:40

uh well , as I think it was pointed out by the owner of that particular cafe in Hawthorne who said you know you're not going to outrun him , oh no .

Speaker 5 5:46

You're just not going to outrun him . He's a triple premiership captain , isn't he ?

Speaker 2 5:51

Yes .

Speaker 5 5:51

And if you think , about the people the people that he actually captained over the top of during those times have all done really well .

Speaker 2 5:59

Most have done really well .

Speaker 5 6:01

So , vossie , yeah , good on him , well done . But as a word of warning , we have to be very careful with things like that too . You don't know who you're taking off after these days , and , as it turns out , one of them allegedly had a machete with him Machete .

Speaker 2 6:14

So that's going through the courts , of course . Of course , in the children's courts , as it should . Yep , I think all of us sort of applaud in that instance .

Speaker 5 6:24

Of course we did , but we wouldn't encourage people to do that ?

Speaker 5 6:28

No , absolutely not . I think a lot of the times , people who are working and let's talk to our shift working in security at night that are actually monitoring these stores , and people are just walking out with the goods . Don't follow them all the way down the street , because if someone's pulled a knife on you , they're going to use it . They've got the potential to use it . It's not your property , it is your life . So make sure that you actually just go back to your store , wait for the police and let them do the follow-up investigation .

Speaker 2 6:59

Roger , before I went to Perth for the week , for last week , and so I went into a shop called Seed Now , you wouldn't even know what that is . Yes , seed , yep . So they specialise in beautiful things , particularly for children .

Speaker 7 7:12

Yep Children's clothing . A couple of tops to take over for the kids .

Speaker 2 7:15

Beautiful and I spoke to a young girl in there and I said how long have you been ? She said I've thing of the seat . I said what do you do under the circumstance if somebody comes in and picks up something off the rack and just walks out ? Let them go . Let them go .

Speaker 5 7:29

Yeah , it's not your property . It's not your property . Let them go .

Speaker 2 7:33

Yep , totally so , which you and I ultimately pay for in that situation , because the prices go up .

Speaker 5 7:39

They factor that into their costs , and how much it's got to go on the shelf , I know , but you're a long-time dead time and you can be a long-time injured and fronting these people . And don't get me wrong , we're not encouraging people to just let everyone go doing everything , because I fear that one day somewhere along the line someone's going to take on the wrong person . There's no doubt , because we've got people out there , that they're not going to put up with some of that . So those people that want to roll the dice and take on some people , go for your life . But one day someone will call in and tell us to come and clean up the mess after they've finished , with some of those people coming into houses , I'm sure .

Speaker 2 8:18

We'll move on and we'll talk about all sorts of interesting things in just a moment , including how we manage shift work . But when you're writing the book and I have no doubt at some point you will Roger the distinction between 40 and even older than you that we have served . The relationship between baddie and goodie , if you like , was different . Drugs has changed that in your time ?

Speaker 5 8:40

Oh , significantly , significantly , yes , significantly . I think when I first started out as opposed to booze . Yeah , even booze , even more so , and I'm sure that because it's so expensive now taxed , you know , I'm sure people are preloading and they're just getting . Well , you know , and I think , well they're preloading before they go out , so they're already half intoxicated while they're out , before they go . That's the problem .

Speaker 2 9:07

Before they go to a pub or a club or whatever it might be .

Speaker 5 9:09

Yeah , well , they're going to do that , and then a pill . Well , the other thing that we've got . The biggest problem is pills , and that are so cheap . Now Drugs can be cheap and the effects are not as delimitating as alcohol is . You know , like sports people , you have alcohol and the impact on your body is enormous . Well , you know yourself , as we get older , it takes more days , it's not hours , it's many , many more days to get over it .

Speaker 2 9:35

Don't you miss those days where you could have a couple of whiskies , you could have a beer and a glass of wine over dinner with a few mates and that would be fine , and you'd get up and you'd read the news at 6 o'clock the next morning on radio ? Yeah , absolutely , and these days it takes a day and a half to get over it .

Speaker 5 9:50

I know it's very dusty .

Speaker 2 9:52

What are we going to talk about when we come back ?

Speaker 5 9:54

Lots of things , well , we want to talk about . We still want to hear from people that can come up with a unique shift working job that we haven't heard of yet . No one came up with one last time , and I want to hear from people who actually can do that and that can come up with something that we just haven't thought of as a shift working job . I've pretty much got most bases covered , but I want to make sure I've got them all covered 133693, .

Speaker 2 10:17

If you ring through you'll get through straight away . 133693 , shift workers those of you that in the past have shift work , particularly overnight . But it's more than just overnight really . It's the change . Sometimes you can be on a day shift , then you move to a night shift Afternoon shift day shift Afternoon shift day shift , all that sort of stuff .

Speaker 2 10:38

Come and join us . 133693 . Where did you work , what did you do and what benefit was it in terms of and what was the downside of it , and have you recovered since ? Maybe you've gone into retirement ? 133693 , or the text line 0477 693 693 . Roger's here , roger Sutherland , it is a healthy shift , australia , overnight . Have you ever bitten your tongue ? I don't mean metaphorically , I mean have you actually ever bitten your tongue and hurt your tongue Geeically ? I mean , have you actually ever bitten your tongue and hurt your tongue ?

Speaker 2 11:06

Gee it hurts , doesn't it ? I did mine sometime yesterday afternoon . It was really sore .

Speaker 5 11:12

I have a habit of it and it draws me bananas . I don't know why I do it , but yeah , it's just excitement .

Speaker 2 11:19

Look at these calls . Don good morning to you . I'm Tony McManus and Roger Sutherland's here . Don Good morning .

Speaker 8 11:26

Good morning you both . How are ?

Speaker 2 11:28

you . Well , what did you want to say , Donny ?

Speaker 8 11:31

Oh look , I'm just a shift worker . I'm currently going home from my shift . I work afternoon shift and honestly , love life , Love that , I absolutely love it . Look , the thing with afternoon shift it's not for everyone , but for me personally . You know , I get home around 12.30ish . I'm about to get home now , about 12.30 . At night I stay up for a few hours . You know , I've got the house to myself . I wake up 9 , 10 in the morning . I've got most of my morning . I've got the afternoon . You know , the really only downside to it , really for me , is just I'm not able to sit down with my family for dinner on the weekdays . That's about it .

Speaker 5 12:13

Yeah , and that wears you down after a while too , doesn't it , don ? I can understand exactly what you're saying here , because I loved the afternoon shift myself , but the one thing that I did find was it does become very taxing on your mental health by not being around your family all the time . Now I've got a question for you when you do those afternoon shifts on your days off , do you stick with much the same sleep pattern ?

Speaker 8 13:34

Yeah , so pretty much . You know , when I work afternoon shifts I'll usually go to sleep around about 2 in the morning , 3 in the morning depends how long it takes me to wind down . But yeah , usually on the weekends the same ordeal . The good thing with it is with me on the Friday I get the RDOs , so every Friday I finish at 8.30 instead , so I've got most of my Friday nights to myself as well .

Speaker 5 13:59

That's nice , that's good . Do you stay up ?

Speaker 8 14:03

I do stay up , I do . I've got the house to myself and I

Shift Work

Speaker 8 14:08

like to take advantage of it . Where I can , I do like the peace and quiet . I love my family .

Speaker 2 14:13

don't get me wrong but the peace and quiet it's nice . When you say family , don't get me wrong , but you know the peace and quiet it's nice . When you say family , do you have children or are you talking about mum and dad ?

Speaker 8 14:22

Just my wife , me and my wife .

Speaker 2 14:23

Okay , so are you allowed to say what sort of business you're in ?

Speaker 8 14:28

Yeah , yeah , yeah , I work in packaging manufacturing in Thomastown .

Speaker 5 14:33

There you go . That's really good , and the reason why you are thriving is because you're staying in that same sleep pattern . It's that simple . By staying in that same sleep pattern , you've conditioned your rhythm , so you recommend that , oh , totally , totally , yep , staying in that sleep pattern . I'm curious as to why you would come home from work and stay up for a few hours , though you should really be getting to bed and getting that dark sleep . That's what we need to be doing , but if it works for you , you do you Dark sleep .

Speaker 8 15:00

I like that Because with me when I get home from work , I can't go to sleep straight away Because I drive an hour to and from work . Coming home from work , I'm actually pretty on the ball from all the driving in there . Of course , now I have the dinner , watch a show here and there , and then I'll doze off .

Speaker 5 15:22

Beautifully done . Well done Don .

Speaker 2 15:23

Well done , Don . It's a great call to kick us off and I thank you very much for that . Ian , good morning . Say hello to Roger Sutherland . We're talking all about the healthy shift . Go ahead , Ian .

Speaker 9 15:34

How are you going , guys ? I've been in ship work for probably most of my life . I used to work in a winery in Adelaide a well-known winery and we used to do 12-hour shifts . Hang on hang on Seven days a week .

Speaker 2 15:48

Hey , and we need to know which one it is now .

Speaker 9 15:53

You've tasted our buds Hardy's Wine , oh my goodness .

Speaker 2 15:55

Thank you very much , excellent work .

Speaker 9 15:59

In Rinella , the headquarters of Hardee's Wines in Rinella in . South .

Speaker 2 16:01

Australia .

Speaker 9 16:01

Beautiful . I worked there for 18 years straight in one place . What were you doing ? A senior cellar hand actually making the wine . It wasn't a winemaker , but we go with the instructions of the winemaker and we actually make the wine according to the winemaker's specifications and so on . So we did that . Like vintage would be a four and a half months of vintage of solid work 24 hours a day . We'd have two shifts of 12-hour days and 12-hour nights . Two weeks of 12-hour days , two weeks of 12-hour nights . So you swap , so your body is up and down . You don't know what's going on . You go from 6 pm to 6 am and 6 am to 6 pm and then you have a 24 hour break and then you go on the opposite side with the night shift . It took four days , or four nights before your body got used to the night shift . It took four days , or , sorry , four nights before your body got used to the night shift . Once you got into that , then everything was fine , and you've got me .

Speaker 5 17:06

I never considered that a winery would be a 24-hour operation . Would be a 24-hour operation Never .

Speaker 9 17:10

That's why I thought I'd ring up . I just switched on , because I just got out of the truck , because I'm a truckie now , yep , and I've just done a 14-hour day . I started at 10 this morning . I just finished and I thought , oh , I'll ring up and see if they've got the winery on their list . So that's why I rang up .

Speaker 5 17:28

I do not .

Speaker 9 17:30

Anyway , Hardee's at its peak was running seven or eight bottling lines 24-7 . My goodness . Even during the weekends right , and yeah , we had trucks coming in . We had a million and a half litres coming in every day to get bottled at parties at Rinella .

Speaker 2 17:49

Every day , a million and a half litres every day and was that a model right through that area , certainly in South Australia ? Was that the model for a lot of the larger companies ? Presumably , maybe presumably not so much the smaller family-owned business but the larger ones ?

Speaker 9 18:03

that was the model . A few wineries in the Barossa Valley right now would be bottling 24-7 . That's crazy . Without a shadow of a doubt , Yep absolutely .

Speaker 5 18:12

I never , ever , considered that . Now tell me , I've got one quick question for you , ian . What education did you get around your shift work like ? You obviously went for your two weeks of day shifts as a kid and then you went for two weeks of um of night shift . What education and I'm not , don't get me wrong here , I'm definitely not criticizing the winery but what education did you get on how to ? We got a little bit we got a little bit .

Speaker 9 18:34

We did get actually get a little bit . It wasn't . It wasn't intensive , it was a little bit of how you cope with your thing , but it didn't really help . You just work it out yourself and so on and so forth . I used to come home . You guys were saying that you've got to switch off . Well , I've just come home now , after a 14-hour day , I'm going to go and have a beer straight away . I'll probably be up for about two hours before I go to bed tonight . I've travelled 1,000 k's today and I won't go to bed until probably 2 o'clock . It's midnight now here and I'll start again tomorrow morning at 10 o'clock and do it all again .

Speaker 2 19:11

What a great call . Love it . Do you feel better that you're out of that , or is there still the cycle of shift work , given that you're finishing at ?

Speaker 9 19:19

midnight . I'm still in shift work now I can start at midnight . They could call me tomorrow and say look , we're not going to start you at 10 o'clock , we're going to start you at midnight tonight and I'll start at midnight and go through for about for midnight tomorrow night for 15 hours straight , like we can work 15 hours straight with one hour off .

Speaker 2 19:42

Ian , what a great call , and keep in touch with the program .

Speaker 9 19:47

Ian , no worries , my body is so used to shift work . It's not funny . I can do anything and just be like a normal human being , even though I've been upside down and inside out .

Speaker 2 19:56

He's full of bones , but you're still young and gorgeous .

Speaker 9 20:01

No , I'm 62 , man .

Speaker 5 20:02

No , you're not .

Speaker 9 20:03

What You're not . Well done , I am 62 years old and I'm still going flat out like a lizard drinking in the hot tub .

Speaker 5 20:11

Well done , ian , I love it .

Speaker 2 20:12

What a fantastic call . Well done you , tm . What age is Rog ? Does that make a difference ? What age is the gift given ? We're talking about shift work . We'll talk about that in just a moment . When we come back , yogi , cindy , Cole and Len will come to you . It is a healthy shift . I'm Tony McManus , roger Sutherland's here , 1-double-3-6-9-3 . Australia . Overnight Text there , ending 9.30 , says I just turned 60 , it was a great big birthday celebration G'day , tony . On behalf of everyone , can we thank Rog ? Courageous , self-sacrificing service Protecting the community . Enjoy a long , happy , well-deserved retirement . That was very nice from Janine .

Speaker 5 20:55

Thank you , janine . I really appreciate that because it's been a long journey , but I've handed the torch over to my daughter now .

Speaker 2 21:01

I saw that it's a lovely . So she's only 20 ? 29 . 29 , so she's gone in . And when was that ceremony Six years ago ? Yep , beautiful little piece , yogi , good morning . Thank you for joining us on Australia Overnight , yogi .

Speaker 13 21:16

Thank you for joining us on Australia Overnight . Yogi yes , good morning , tony , yogi the Great , yogi the Great .

Speaker 10 21:23

I'm a busker .

Speaker 13 21:24

Yes , yogi , that's how I make my cash . That's how I make my cash and I love it .

Speaker 5 21:27

Another shift worker .

Speaker 2 21:28

Yes , shift worker .

Speaker 13 21:32

So when do you do that ? Well , I can do that any time I like . I've spoken with the council in Kingston . Well , I'll just give it away , is that alright ? Yeah , go , yeah , yeah , yeah , I'll get down there . You've got Isaac down there . I can't stand out in front of Mr Isaac . I'm nothing like Marcus Kay , but yeah , I enjoy it . It's not really shift work , but I do it through the day . I'm not sure the council would allow that . I'm pretty sure every council is different , but this is a great council , kingston . I'd love to thank them for letting me in .

Speaker 2 22:04

Oh , yogi , what a great call . Thank you very much , yogi . You keep in touch with the program too . Thank you for being part of it , cindy . Good morning to you , roger's . Here I'm Tony McManus . Good morning . Yeah , good morning .

Speaker 2 22:19

I was just wondering if you could explain why females , males , whatever can't have a capsicum spray you mean as an officer , if you're in a situation where Cindy do you mean as a police officer ? Yeah , Sorry . Do you mean as a police officer or a member of the community ? No , a member of the community , Right Like yeah . Roger , have you got any thoughts about that sort of ?

Speaker 5 22:57

I don't really . It is a weapon . That's the problem , I'm sure I mean , if we have a look at the US , people are packing firearms and carrying those around . I don't think we want to get to that stage . It's not a firearm . No , I know . It's a capsicum spray . Yeah , I know exactly what capsicum spray is . It's been made illegal , or it is illegal to possess because it is a weapon , and I can tell you I've used capsicum spray many a time . It is lethal .

Speaker 2 23:28

And it affects the eyes .

Speaker 5 23:30

Oh terribly , and burns on the skin .

Speaker 4 23:33

If you're in a situation where you're , you know God why can't you ? Have it in your handbag and just spray it .

Speaker 5 23:41

Cindy , I understand that I totally can , but can I just say this to you as well Majority of incidents happen so quickly . The chance of you being able to reach into your handbag and actually get access to it would probably not be . If you felt uncomfortable , obviously , you could put your hand on it and be in a position where you'd be ready to use it , but majority of incidents that actually occur happen so quickly . And the other problem that you've got with capsicum spray is , once you unload it , it's in the air everywhere and everyone's going to get impacted by it , and that's probably one of the biggest issues that there is with it . It's not like an edge weapon where it's only going to the person that it's pointed at is going to hit . So you imagine being at a railway station or somewhere like that where all of a sudden , we have a problem and you pull that out and spray it . It's going to hit everybody and that's a big problem .

Speaker 2 24:30

Big problem , big , big problem . I think it's Jim Jefferies who tells that great story about the stupid gun rules in America , where he sort of says , well , somebody comes into your house and you then got to go , hang on , stay there . Well , somebody's got to go , I've got to go and get my gun .

Speaker 5 24:48

I've got to go . Hang on , stay there . Well , somebody's got to go . I've got to go and get my gun . I've got to go and unlock the cabinet . I've got to go and get the ammunition , which is in another cabinet . Yeah , that's the problem .

Speaker 2 24:54

Just crazy . Cole , good morning and thank you for joining us Australia overnight right across the great states of Australia . Cole , good morning to you .

Speaker 3 25:04

G'day Tony . G'day Tony . G'day , roger . I had a . I'd done two shifts at a radio station , so I went from . I can't remember when it started off , I think it was something like about nine . The shift starts until six in the morning is what I'd done . So that was back in the day . But I actually had a question for you , roger .

Speaker 2 25:25

Cole , just going back to the radio one very quickly . Sorry to jump in there , were you on air . What were you , roger Cole , just going back to the radio one very quickly . Sorry to jump in there , were you on air . What were you doing there , cole ?

Speaker 3 25:32

Yeah , I was on air . I had my own show . Oh , good on you , it was hip-hop , and I won't mention the radio station if you don't want me to .

Speaker 2 25:40

No , you're more than welcome to do that . Is it community radio ? It was 88.3 Southern FM . 88.3 Southern FM . Good on you , well done you .

Speaker 3 25:48

Excellent , you're not doing it anymore . No , no , no , no , I'm not doing it anymore , but just talking about shift work and things like that . I had a question for Roger Simmons . I'm gathering , just from what I've gathered , that he's an ex-policeman .

Speaker 2 26:05

Yeah , correct , just retired .

Speaker 3 26:08

I'm wondering when , roger , we are going to have a decent police force on the internet . I mean , you know this hacking is ridiculous . If everyone just paid $30 a month , we could have a police force on the internet . That this hacking would be ? It wouldn't exist , you know . And to add to that , I think you know to save on court costs and things like that , I think if you're found hacking by the internet police force , you just get your computer shut down and it shuts it down and turns it into a brick .

Speaker 2 26:47

It's as simple as that I don't know that it is that simple .

Speaker 5 26:50

That's therein lies part of the problem . As soon as we had the internet , we had a problem , didn't we ? Because we've got pipelines into people's personal data absolutely everywhere

Cybersecurity and Shift Work Perspectives

Speaker 5 26:59

worldwide and and obviously people make a great big hobby out of just hacking and being painful to everybody and it is such an inconvenience Like if you've . You know , we've seen some big organisations that have Optus was a classic , you know they get hacked with details .

Speaker 2 27:17

It's not Mary in Malvern who's doing it . It's probably Exactly right , it's probably Mick in Malaysia .

Speaker 5 27:22

Well , yes , yeah , or or wherever In China , yeah , you know , and yes , yeah , or in China , and I think it's part of the spying network and things like that . Now I'm absolutely convinced of that . But the thing is , the challenge is for the kids to try and get into these networks that they're not supposed to get into , and what Cole says about . If we just had police that could do it . There are even members of Victoria Police and Federal Police that are working on these networks like pedophile networks and things like that .

Speaker 5 27:52

They're working on them all the time , 24-7 . Yep 24-7 . Monitoring , watching , doing infiltrating . Look , we don't realise who we're talking to on the internet , half the time it could be a cop that's actually going through , and I know that actually occurs as well . That's just fishing for the right people , and the thing is we've got to be very , very careful . You know , trying to say how easy a solution is when it's literally not that simple . It's a big worldwide problem that we have .

Speaker 2 28:18

Talking about buskers . What happens when there's no cash ? How do buskers make a quid when there's ? No cash around , or little or no cash around . It is one of the problems for Robuscus . And Julie says we can't carry capsicum . Can we carry a can of irrigate or mortine ?

Speaker 5 28:33

Well , there could be bugs or flies around where you are .

Speaker 2 28:36

Thank you , len , a very quick call from you . Good morning , yes , len fire it up . Yeah , okay , Chief work . Yeah , I work for the airline . Yeah , you mentioned that , lenny , so did you have a question for Roger ?

Speaker 6 28:54

Okay , Roger . What do we do about those home invasions ? What happens if someone breaks my front door down tonight and I put them away ?

Speaker 5 29:05

What happens there . Well , you're within your rights to protect your property , but obviously it's reasonable force is what you're within your rights to protect your property , but obviously it's reasonable force is what you're allowed to use Under the law . Under the law that's reasonable force . That's all you can do to protect yourself . So obviously if someone comes in and you use a gun , then obviously that's not reasonable force .

Speaker 2 29:24

It's a tricky one . It's a difficult situation . God forbid we be in those situations , len .

Speaker 14 29:30

Thank you , len , to Glenn good morning , Mr Tony , Thanks for taking the call . Old mate who Called up about shift work ? I was a suit wearing Person who worked in corporate work For a long time . I must say it's been very refreshing moving to the country and actually doing some shift work and factory work and when you evaluate lifestyle versus income and cost of living , it's actually worked out bloody brilliantly . And I don't think I'd actually look back , even though aspirations would bring me back to that maybe at a different point in my life , let alone politics . I'm just happy doing what I'm doing and good machine operation , good mentoring . We're running juices , we're running the St Razia district , benefiting the community , everything and exporting . It's a beautiful thing and I think more people should be made aware of that because they are screaming for people up here and I just thought I'd just make that point forward , please .

Speaker 2 30:44

You did , glenn . So what sort of work is it ? You know just briefly what sort of work is it . You know just briefly what type of work is it . I can imagine you might be on some sort of I don't know what's the word when you want to Assembly line .

Speaker 5 30:58

Yeah , is it an ?

Speaker 2 30:58

assembly type situation or how does it work ?

Speaker 14 31:00

Well , thankfully it's more interesting than just putting bottle tops on bottles . But it's machinery operation . You know workflows , flows , pulp juices Basically it's what we all drink and eat and export and it's a beautiful thing to be a part of . And if COVID didn't happen and if life changes didn't bring forward these disasters that we all had in some way shape or form , I would never have discovered . I'm a very , very happy lad and you know , bring it forward . But more people , even the younger generation , if they have a good team around them and good mentorship , it's a very good thing and they can earn very , very good money . We're not talking about working the mines or anything . We're talking about just good machine operation . It's a little bit ad hoc , if you know what I mean , just like the old fella that said oh yeah , we have to kind of learn on the job . That has its own frustrations , but it's a wonderful thing and it's half mental , half manual and especially good for young men .

Speaker 5 32:13

Glenn , I love this call and I'll tell you why . I absolutely love it . We talk about the downside of shift work all the time , and we do . We talk about the health benefit . It's almost a negative connotation . It's very negative shift work because science and research has told us it's negative .

Speaker 2 32:27

We speak of it like it's negative .

Speaker 5 32:29

Well , I do too , and in fairness , I do talk about it in negatives . But what Glenn has said there , coming from a suit-wearing toff and he said that his own words and he would have been driving to work in peak hour traffic and driving home .

Speaker 2 32:41

What did he do with all the old suits , Glenn ?

Speaker 14 32:45

They're now saved for weddings , funerals and the occasional Getty Up gig . And the races , by the way , oh , the races . Of course Bons is not flying up here anymore , so I need to pay double for the flights , but no .

Speaker 5 33:01

I'll find a use for them , don't worry , I love it . And I love it because you've really embraced . I know when I was driving home from night shift and you'd be driving along the eastern freeway and you'd be looking at all the suckers going to work in the traffic and you'd be thinking , oh God , I'm glad I don't do that , because I don't really know what it's like to drive to work 9 to 5 .

Speaker 1 33:21

No , of course you don't , and I've never done it for 40 years .

Speaker 5 33:23

I was 20 years old when I started , which tells you that I'm 60 . But yeah .

Speaker 2 33:27

I know it's a great call , glenn . Keep in touch . Thank you for being part of it , australia overnight . I know , when I'm driving home and up the Monash out towards Berwick and I think to myself you see all these zillions of lights , zillions of lights coming into town each and every day . It's fantastic and people do that . But I'm driving the other way , against the traffic , yeah , and I'm thinking you know to have this lovely role here at 3A Dub and you know , have the network across 5AA and 6PR in Perth . It's pretty good .

Speaker 5 33:58

Oh , absolutely .

Speaker 2 33:59

But that's the upside .

Speaker 5 34:00

Yeah , it is . And they've broken sleep at 4.30 in the morning to get up to have showers , to put their faces on to you know , to get up to have showers , to put their faces on , to get in the car , while they're driving , along with their coffee and their piece of toast , and they're sitting in traffic and cussing and hoping that something doesn't happen in front of them . Meanwhile you're just streaming the other way , waving at them all . I love it , especially when it's raining or it's wet .

Speaker 2 34:20

A couple of quick calls the other side , 133693 , the text messages and there are many . We'll look at those in just a moment . 04777693 . 693 . Roger Sutherland , tony McManus . Roger has just retired after 40 years , four days with Vic Pol and loving every moment of it . There are so many texts we're just not going to get to , but one in particular says in terms of these bails because you know it comes up in conversation and you would have heard it with Jackie Felgate on 3OW , the question about bail .

Speaker 2 34:54

Do you understand that listeners people generally are confused by how that works ? Totally , and is it frustrating ? Now that you're out , you can say stuff that you probably couldn't say when you were in .

Speaker 5 35:06

Is it frustrating ? Oh , it's incredibly frustrating . I want to reassure everyone listening that the police out there that are doing the job are working their butts off and they're getting slaughtered , actually doing it . They're doing everything , but the public have put so much pressure on them . The public need to change their focus and push the pressure into your local member and they need to be pushing and standing on the door and hammering . You need to fix this , because what we've got to remember , which is super important to remember , is there's laws , and the magistrates and the judges are not at fault here , and neither are the police , because that system , that whole network of catch a crook , put them before the courts is bound by what the parliamentarians have done . As far as the statutes go , you can only work to the statutes and the magistrate and as a member of the public , we can't turn around and go oh , but he stole a car and he had a machete . Well , all the magistrate or the judge can do is look at the facts .

Speaker 10 36:07

He's 16 years old the evidence .

Speaker 5 36:09

That's all he can look at the fact and you've got to remember he's innocent until proven guilty , because that's what we want in society today as well . So he's innocent until proven guilty . But the advice to the public from me today is get out there and start campaigning on your local politician , because they are the lawmakers , not the police , not the judicial system , the parliamentarians .

Speaker 2 36:33

And it's a bit like there would be many people and whilst we're not allowed to go into all the details when you serve on a jury as I had the privilege of doing some 15 years ago in a very important trial and whilst we really believed that the accused was guilty , based on the evidence presented to the court , we had no choice but to find him not guilty .

Speaker 5 36:58

That's right , because you can only be bound by the . You can't go by your gut feeling . You can't look at the person and go I bet he did it . You can only make your decisions based on what the facts are , which is a tricky one .

Speaker 2 37:11

Where are we up to Pete ? Good morning .

Speaker 10 37:14

Good afternoon guys . Can I ask that night shoot about ? I've seen a lot of videos about people talking about your circadian rhythm . Once you disrupt that , you actually

Impact of Shift Work on Health

Speaker 10 37:27

do bad things to your health . How can you explain to me what the security comes out of with the circadian ?

Speaker 5 37:34

rhythm , circadian rhythm . Okay , let me just explain this to you in very , very simple terms . This is what a circadian rhythm is . It's like a swing and it rocks backwards and forwards every single day and it's automatic , and our body anticipates that it's going to do certain things at certain times , like eat . That's why we get hungry at breakfast time , that's why we get hungry at lunchtime , that's why we get hungry at dinnertime , that's why we get warm in the evening and then get cold to sleep . It's got a whole rhythm that runs and it runs every single 24 hours , regardless . If you stand in the way of that swing , you interrupt it and it loses momentum and then it gets confused as to where it's at . That is the simplest way to describe it .

Speaker 5 38:20

What we do as shift workers , we create all sorts of problems as soon as , and even jet lag . But as soon as we're desynchronized from our circadian rhythm , what actually happens is all those processes are all out of sync . So when we eat at the wrong time , the processes are not ready to digest and metabolize that food and store it properly , so it doesn't , and we get digestive issues . We end up with insulin resistance . Our pancreas is not releasing the insulin that we need to process , shuttle the glucose into the cells . Our mental health takes a massive hit , massive hit when our circadian rhythm is disrupted . We've now learnt .

Speaker 2 38:59

Which is well and truly documented .

Speaker 5 39:00

Well and truly documented , well researched , that our mental health takes a big hit , and we've got to ask whether it's the cart before the horse as well . Does the circadian rhythm disrupt ?

Speaker 2 39:09

Does that sort of allay any concern ? Are you talking to me ? Yeah , are you asking me ?

Speaker 5 39:16

Yes .

Speaker 17 39:16

Yeah Well , I've been doing it for 10 years . I'm probably going to do it for another year or two .

Speaker 10 39:23

But , I can see . When I first started I didn't have much of a problem , but I remember from the 4th , 5th , 6th , 7th , year really much when it was a really dark place , but I could tell that .

Speaker 2 39:39

There you go in a dark place . We've just lost that line there , unfortunately . We've just lost the satellite . As they used to say , we'll come back More of your calls . The other side . Come and join us . 133693 . Rog , as they used to say , we'll come back More of your calls . The other side . Come and join us 133693 . Rog , when we come back . Are you happy to take a few more calls ? We'll talk to Jimmy . We'll talk to Rob Maggie's in Adelaide as well . You can hang around for a bit longer .

Speaker 2 39:55

Be a venture I'm happy to . We'll talk more about those circadian rhythms of Australia Overnight . Tony Mack here . Good morning . You're listening to Australia Overnight with Tony McManus . Good work , alex In our Australia Overnight newsroom . A good morning to you wherever you are . 1-336-93 is the number . You can also text 04-776-93-693 , roger Sutherland from A Healthy Shift , and it's a good question . We should point out that as a retired copper , if you like now and you enjoy it but for many , many years now you've been studying the idea of shift work , what it does to our bodies . You've been studying nutrition for a long time as well .

Speaker 5 40:47

I actually returned to study six years ago and I am a certified nutritionist . But that led me into understanding , because I honestly thought that the biggest problem in shift work was nutrition and what we were doing . But then I started to learn about chrononutrition , which is meal timing in accordance with your circadian rhythm , which then sent me right down the circadian rhythm path . I want to make shift working life better for shift workers , so I need to be more on top of everything that's going on in the shift working , research around and the circadian rhythm . It all comes back to circadian rhythm everything .

Speaker 2 41:25

Which we'll talk about as we go through a couple of quick calls . Rob , good morning . Thank you for joining us , Rob . Everything which we'll talk about as we go through a couple of quick calls . Rob , good morning . Thank you for joining us , Rob . Hello .

Speaker 10 41:33

Good morning , Tony and Roger . Firstly , I'd like to say thank you , Roger , for your service to the community .

Speaker 5 41:42

People make me very emotional when they say that it's very , very humbling , and I really appreciate you saying that .

Speaker 2 41:48

Thank you , Rob Do officers generally take that on board as a compliment . Oh my God absolutely it's .

Speaker 5 41:55

even people just stopping and pulling up next to you at the lights and just waving , and just waving and smiling at you . People got no idea how much of a difference that actually makes to someone in the day .

Speaker 2 42:07

Well , there you go .

Speaker 5 42:08

I thought I'd do it , but I was wondering whether or not it was often seen as being intrusive Absolutely not , and I think I've always admired in America , when you go to the US , that first class get on a plane . The military are always called first and they always thank them for their service . They thank police for their service . It's very American . I know when I retired and I put my post up on my social media , all the American people that follow , all would put the flag up and they would all say hand on their heart , thank you for your service .

Speaker 2 42:44

Isn't that a lovely thing ?

Speaker 5 42:45

It's huge and it makes you emotional . So , Rob , I really appreciate that . Did you have another question ?

Speaker 10 42:52

Yeah , certainly . On the subject of bail , I always thought that , for instance , a family member would have to pay a surety , so if they re-offend , you forego that money . Is that not the case these days , or am I just living in TV world ?

Speaker 5 43:12

No , it's TV world . Now you can have sureties with bail all right , let's be clear on that . But a lot of these it's got to be fairly severe , but they know where a lot of these kids are 90% of the time . So they are bailed with conditions . There's no surety , but they're bailed with conditions . So what they do is they say you're not allowed to associate with Tony McManus , you're not allowed to be out after 9pm at night . Now the reason why they're bailed this way here is because if they re-offend again then they can breach them on that condition All right , so that every time they breach their bail condition they take a step closer to being in behind the slamming door . So no , there's no money that's put up . In serious cases like murders or things like that , yes , there are sureties and it's quite significant money that's put up , but in majority of these cases people are bailed on their own undertaking , with conditions in most situations . Rob .

Speaker 10 44:13

I dare say that , okay , the parent has to pay $1,000 . I'm sure they're going to keep an eye on their child a lot more because they don't want to forego that $1,000 . There's no deterrent . They don't want to forego that $1,000 . There's no deterrent . There's no consequences apart from them breaching those conditions .

Speaker 5 44:34

When you arrest an offender for an offence in the cold light of day , you have to front them before a bail justice or a magistrate to actually have them set the conditions . And again they are bound by everything that's been set in place in the background by our politicians again , and we have to rally our politicians around the laws to make sure that these laws and these conditions are put in place to make it . I totally agree with you If every parent had to continually put $1,000 up every time their child offended , you'd be protecting that grand like you'd handcuff your kids .

Speaker 2 45:14

You would , except that there's not too many people , sadly that necessarily have $1,000 or $1,500 sitting in a bank account to hand over to a magistrate .

Speaker 5 45:23

Absolutely spot on , and therein lies part of the issue .

Speaker 10 45:31

And that is the problem . Yep , it's a great call , robert . Anything else you wanted to add before we let you go ? Oh no , I'd just follow up by saying we're lobbying them to prioritise health and law and order .

Speaker 2 45:46

We don't have time to lobby them about changing laws , about bail and so forth , because there's so many other issues . There are so many issues that need to be , you know , need to be sort of navigated . There's no question about that . But historically , health and law and order have been two of the big priorities for community and for society .

Speaker 5 46:02

If I was a politician , it would be health and law and order I'd be campaigning on and you'd be winning votes everywhere if you had the right things to say .

Speaker 2 46:08

Maggie , Natalie , quick call from you to say hello to Roger . Do you have a question for Roger ?

Speaker 15 46:16

Yeah , yeah , perhaps firstly a couple of comments if I may , and I'm sorry if I iterate a little , but yeah , you were talking about shift work . Now I fully agree . You were talking about shift work , now I fully agree . You know regular whatever is very important and I know all about the circadian rhythm . Now there's certain professions , such as nursing and even police work , I dare say , where they get rusted on doing AMs or followed by PMs , or into nights . And now where is Ock , health and Safety ?

Speaker 2 46:58

Oh , great question . Maggie . So just hold that thought . So where does Ock Health and Safety fit into that ?

Speaker 5 47:04

Yeah , I think actually , maggie's really nailed something here that I'm going to be addressing in my now current life , and that is the health and wellbeing of our shift workers . Who's looking after them ? There has to be responsibility put onto corporates around managing shift workers . Maggie , this is a really great point . I could go on a massive rant here because I'd shake your hand and totally agree with what you're saying . Where is Ock Health and Safety ? Because there are organisations out there , consultancy firms that are experts in fatigue management and they can lead these companies into how the best way to manage their shift working staff are .

Speaker 2 47:46

Mining companies are pretty much good at that , aren't they ? In terms of what happens in Queensland certainly in WA , it's diabolical Really .

Speaker 5 47:54

Yep , I communicate with a lot of mining . The culture in mining is terrible , terrible .

Speaker 2 48:01

It's a shame really .

Speaker 5 48:02

Fly in , fly out .

Speaker 2 48:03

Maggie , you raise a great question and thank you for doing that , jimmy . Good morning , good morning boys . How's life ? Well , jimmy , go ahead . Roger's listening . I'm Tony . Go ahead , jimmy .

Speaker 18 48:15

How you doing Well , thank you .

Speaker 2 48:17

What did you want to ask ?

Speaker 18 48:19

Now the fact is , with our legal system that's the point I wanted to comment on system , that that's the point I wanted to comment on , because you're making points about a lot of people giving the police a lot of grief when they're doing such fantastic work , and they're the ones that are actually on the ground doing the work , mate , and it's the fact of the community that is as rotten as what it is , and so we need people that are looking after this . All man . It comes down to the matters of justice in the court , with these farcical penalties for the guilty verdict when they are given .

Speaker 5 49:06

Yeah , I couldn't agree more . Could not agree more .

Speaker 18 49:09

It's the fact that , first , with the applaud to the police , the amazing pressures they're under , the brilliant work done I mean despite the magistrates also , as they're also able to pass the verdicts only as they're set and the laws there , that the precedent , and it's that sort of consideration where we need to look at the whole legal system that needs to be uprooted and re-planted .

Speaker 2 49:50

But that's what we're saying . I think , jimmy , it's the politicians , the current brigade .

Speaker 18 49:55

You're exactly right , man . They've got to look

Community Safety and Policing Perspectives

Speaker 18 49:57

at it . This is where we need to be getting off the Labour and Liberal sort of buck in the normality there and get into these independents who actually are even Christians , who do have the moralistic standard for this old man , yeah .

Speaker 2 50:24

Well , that's an interesting comment , Jimmy . Yeah , that's an interesting comment . I mean I'm not too sure that it's necessarily impacted one way or the other about a religious belief , but we could argue that on another program maybe .

Speaker 5 50:36

Yeah , I think Jimmy's actually on the money . I agree program maybe . Yeah , I think I think jimmy's actually on the money . I I agree that and I I think if people want to see change , walk into the local police station and ask to speak to the boss and say to him how can I support you , what can I do to help you ? And you'll find that the manager will say you need to campaign with your local politician . It starts there . That's where it starts because they set the laws , all the statutes that the police are working to .

Speaker 5 51:04

We're all bound by that rule , and so are the magistrates , and so are the judges , and so are the legal fraternity all the way through . So we need to be pointing the finger , we need to turn the radar around a little bit and point to the top . We're the lawmakers .

Speaker 2 51:17

Yeah , jimmy , it's a great call . Thank you for that . We'll do this when we come back . More of your calls , danny , chris , jason , you'll be next . It is Australia overnight and , roger , now that you're a free agent , you can talk about the football team that you know and love , and you're excited .

Speaker 5 51:29

My Hawks . I got my tickets today for my Hawks . They are absolutely on a roll .

Speaker 2 51:34

On a roll at the moment . How long were you on the phone ?

Speaker 5 51:37

Today I didn't . I actually was walking up and down in the hydro pool today , which I do every Wednesday for an hour , just as a bit of stress management for myself , and a mate of mine who was getting a ticket for him and his son managed to get two more . Use my member's barcode , because with your member's barcode you can get one . We got through and got great suits , we're on the ground level and just ran in the Olympic stand , so I absolutely cannot wait , and I was just saying to you off air , it's stressful when your team makes the finals . It's so goddamn stressful .

Speaker 5 52:11

No , it's stressful , You're not no we're not , your team's not there .

Speaker 2 52:16

Thank you , do you have to highlight that again to me ?

Speaker 5 52:18

I'll say it once more who do you vote for ?

Speaker 2 52:20

again . Thank you , melvin , and I just see some of the news about Pickett too , which is a bit distressing in terms of he wants to go . I'm not too sure what's going on there . Danny , danny , danny , say hello to Roger and Tony McManus .

Speaker 7 52:34

Hi Roger , hi Danny .

Speaker 5 52:35

Hi Danny how are you ?

Speaker 7 52:39

Thank you for your service and congratulations on the time I appreciate you , thank you .

Speaker 7 52:44

Being in security , I try to work as closely as I can , especially when I have alarm responses and stuff with the police . I think there could be more of a connection with security and police , because we are sort of trying to deal with the same sort of trying to deal with the same sort of things from time to time . And just on the second point of that , I think what Michael Voss did was a bit stupid , one of the things that teachers and the same with you , you've got to protect yourself first and think about the consequences that you may have if you suffer an injury because the guy did have a knife on him . That's not better than the bush . He was a juvenile , he had a knife on him , he had stolen the car and , yes , he was .

Speaker 2 53:27

Well , we're just going to be a little careful , Danny , in the fact that that's before courts now . So all those things ?

Speaker 7 53:34

will be determined by the courts .

Speaker 7 53:37

At the end of the day , I think that especially the police and security could work much closer , and I try to implement that in my towns that I work in , because they are small country towns and the fact that we're trying to deal with the same sort of problem , which is a lot of juvenile crime , and it's really a fine line as to what you can and can't do , and a lot of times I have to stand back and let the police do the best they can because I have absolutely no power to do anything .

Speaker 2 54:13

Yeah , which I guess , from your point of view , Danny , is frustrating as well but you're limited based on the role that you play in community .

Speaker 7 54:22

That's right and the fact that you know again , if I am on a patrol , especially night time , to do the patrol , then we have an alarm call and I could be there before the police . I've got to make sure that I'm safe . If there's still somebody on site or a detainer on site , you don't know what is going through their minds or what they're on .

Speaker 5 54:45

Roger does that make sense , roger ? Totally , I think . First of all , I just want to go back to Vossi . I think it's harsh to criticise Vossi . I can certainly understand his point right , but Vossi's a man and he's standing there having a coffee and he sees a car roll and two heads take off and I think he's naturally , as a man , just taken off after him . I've got to help . I've got to help . He's just run after these two people .

Speaker 5 55:11

He doesn't get time and this is where , in the cold light of day , it's really harsh for us to judge even what the police do and how the police go about it .

Speaker 5 55:20

It's all well and good If you're not actually in the situation making the split-second decision at the time . I'm not saying you haven't got an opinion , but I think one of the hardest things is that it gets to court some 12 to 18 months later and everyone wants to be an armchair expert looking at it Now . I know you're saying it's silly and I get that . But as a man in society , I think we have a duty to look after our society as well . But he wouldn't have realised that they allegedly had a knife on him at that particular point in time , that they just were two youths that took off , and he's a man , so he took off after them . But the ones that I have a problem with are the people who have a knife pulled on them and then they continue to follow them and they chase them and they call triple zero . They've already shown their card , don't put yourself in danger .

Speaker 2 56:12

Yeah , it's a tricky one , Danny . I take your point . Have you got , obviously , challenges where you are around the Port Augusta area , Danny ?

Speaker 7 56:20

All the time , all the time . And yeah , like I said , I try to work as closely . I have colleagues that I know personally in the police force and yeah , I say that all the time , the best I can help you helps you further . And just going back on your point there , roger , like he's a man and I've come across this problem myself because they're juveniles and again he's crash-tackled them . How would that set up in court ? Because he's a KV kid ? But he's a man , he's a grown man and he shouldn't be touching a child . And I'll often stop and thought about that myself . Like I've been assaulted by kids . I can't retaliate back because that will reflect back on me .

Speaker 7 57:08

Yeah , because the law doesn't allow you to retaliate presumably I look after myself and my career and my job before I , because I can have that power taken off me . It's not really a power , but it's a lifestyle , and there's a reason why we haven't worked with children's things as well . I've got to protect that as well . You know what .

Speaker 2 57:30

I mean , we're going to let you go , except briefly in terms of shift work . How does that impact you on a week-to-week basis ?

Speaker 7 57:44

From one week to the next . It's up and down , to be honest with you , because sometimes I'm on day shift and patrolling shopping centres , supermarkets , things like that , where there's a lot of petty crime that happens and knife theft and all sorts of stuff like that . Patrol work , I mean again it's a little bit different because it is alarm first response and patrolling , make sure things are secure . But again you do come across people from time to time where they shouldn't be there and they're doing the wrong thing .

Speaker 7 58:10

And yeah , you've just got to be mindful of the fact that . Yeah , Danny . I am on my own with no way to protect myself except calling the police .

Speaker 2 58:20

Well , you keep up the good work , danny . It's a good thing that you and zillions of others just like you , were there . Thank you very much for the call . It is a challenge whether security people I don't know whether the level of training is very different , but historically do you work together

Shift Work and Mental Health in Law Enforcement

Speaker 2 58:33

, do you communicate together , or is it seen as a bit of an irritant occasionally ? And be honest ?

Speaker 5 58:39

Yeah , it's seen as a bit of an irritant occasionally , but I do think because a lot of security are putting expectations on the police of what they want to see happen which isn't feasible to be able to happen , and I can understand that , because the public are doing that to the police as well . Why aren't you locking these people up ? Why are they out on bail ? Well , it's not the police , that's doing that .

Speaker 5 58:59

It's like the speed cameras . Why do you put the speed camera there ? Why do you put the speed camera ? It's not the police doing the speed cameras . You know what I mean . It's the perception that it's all the police , but it's actually not all the police . So I'm here to support the police in that , because it's not them , but security . I think one of the best things they can do again is they can go to their local police station and sit down with the boss and say put some guidelines in place as to what do you expect from me ? How can I support you ? How can I support you ? Blah , blah , blah . Form a relationship Instead of this . They get a bit of butting heads going there .

Speaker 2 59:36

Tears . Since you're a juror , presumably you're addressing this to me . The good doctor , you must love Henry Fonda in the film classic 12 Angry Men . What a movie . We've got your calls coming up . Stay with us , 1-336-93 . You'll get on board straight away if you ring through 1-336-93 . The text line 0477 693 693 . Roger Sutherland , veteran law enforcement officer , four decades , just retired , and we're talking about shift working and other conversations around . I guess law and order Such a big topic as well . As you well know , Roger , Chris , you'll be . Next it is Australia . Overnight . Bruno says the doggies will blow the hawks out of the sky , says Bruno via the text line .

Speaker 2 1:00:21

You happy with that ? Respond , if you will please .

Speaker 5 1:00:24

I'm happy that the hawks are there . I think if I was a doggie supporter I'd be a bit worried . We've got a team here that just doesn't care and they're just having a ball .

Speaker 2 1:00:32

Tanya sends an email . Have a listen to this , tanya and Roger . I've worked shift work for many years , did seven through until 7 am , so 12 hours , yep . I now work part-time single mum during school hours and currently feel I do shift work after he goes to bed . Most mums and this is a very important point I bet there's young mums listening now , yep , that are up because the demands of being a mother with young children or babies , in particular , I guess Most mums do shift work washing and cleaning after the kids go to sleep . I'm currently vacuuming and washing dishes before I go to bed . That's right and so , by definition , that's shift work which is going to impact family life .

Speaker 5 1:01:12

Oh , absolutely it does , and it also impacts the other thing . This is where it puts pressure on mums as well , as far as their mental health goes , and this is why this circadian disruption . Now I will say this , though that we do learn that females in short spurts of being awake at night and going back to sleep . They're built for that . Obviously , females are built for that .

Speaker 2 1:01:36

Well they are . What are you saying More ?

Speaker 5 1:01:38

so than blokes . I would suggest so , but females are the child bearers and so historically they would be in a position where they would be I don't know through liaising with doctors around females and motherhood and things like that , that in short spurts . But one of the biggest problems that we've got to be really careful of and in particular today , because we do have the technology is don't expose yourself to blue light when you're getting up . Now , this is the thing , and I want to make this point really clear .

Speaker 2 1:02:09

You'll need to share with people briefly about blue light , when you make blue light what does that mean ?

Speaker 5 1:02:14

Okay , yep . Now this is what I wanted to say . We have now got technology that if you are awake and there's light , but there's no blue spectrum at 480 nanometers in the light above us , our body doesn't know that we're awake at all .

Speaker 2 1:02:32

It doesn't know . Do these lights above us right now know that we're awake ?

Speaker 5 1:02:35

They're telling your body that you're well and truly awake because there's plenty of blue light in these . So that's what we need . We need circadian lighting in here . We've spoken about that . We need circadian lighting .

Speaker 2 1:02:45

Who do we need ?

Speaker 5 1:02:46

You were going to email the boss . Did you get a reply ? Nah well , I didn't get around to it , but thank you .

Speaker 2 1:02:51

It's on the list of things to do . Can we do a couple of quick calls ? There's some great emails as well . We'll get to in a moment . Thank you , Chris . Have you got a question for Roger ? Good morning .

Speaker 12 1:03:00

Yeah , roger , I've been for 23 years , expected with brain damage and paranoid schizophrenia . The people have said when being mentally ill we need to restructure our courts that if you have a mental illness that doesn't mean you're immediately guilty of a crime , whether it's only a word of mouth or only allegation . Too many people in the community , if they have a grudge against someone who has a mental illness , are using the law to their advantage . I was actually . I'm not talking about an actual crime . I'm going to state to you . I'm saying I was convicted from a word of mouth , only allegation , no witnesses , no CCTV , no critical evidence . But I was convicted on the basis of always , mentally it must be guilty a very violent thing to happen in a psychiatric facility . Look , I've regrouped . I'm trying to resolve it with the means of goodwill and dialogue no brown paper bags , no white envelopes , so I could have a better respect for the law enforcement and our frontline and emergency service workers . It was a significant , life-threatening trauma , but I'm back in my hometown abroad , beddowsdale . I'm back in my hometown of Broadbiddows . Now I'm really safe and I'm starting to be more progressive and put a lot of this behind me .

Speaker 12 1:04:03

I wrote many . I didn't have the hundreds of thousands of dollars Once your appeal becomes a civil case because I had legal aid , I was below the poverty line . You need hundreds of thousands of dollars to appeal through the county court or the court of law sorry , the county court or the Supreme Court , the High Court , where you'll probably be acquitted because the High Court will always waive and favor that anyone that's been convicted from a word of malfeasance without any evidence , any witnesses , no CCTV , no critical evidence beyond law and order would be more than likely to have been wrongfully committed . But I'm not in that situation at any time in my life . I wrote to the former constitutional sovereign , gwendolyn Elizabeth II . I wrote to Linda Dessau , the former governor . I wrote to four state attorney generals the Honourable Rob Hull , the Honourable Mark .

Speaker 2 1:04:53

So , without going through the entire process , what was the outcome of that , chris , that you want to share with us ?

Speaker 12 1:05:00

I was convicted of the crime and I was actually a victim of what they call low-density housing . I was the only housing commissioner on Centling and I was on the estate trustees only living on $70 a week .

Speaker 2 1:05:11

And what was the charge , Chris ?

Speaker 12 1:05:15

Well it was , I don't know , it must have been . When you verbally say something , apparently it comes across as an assault and then people sort of thought , oh , he's a dickhead .

Speaker 2 1:05:30

No , regardless of what people think . What was the charge ? Was it a charge of assault ?

Speaker 12 1:05:34

There was no physical assault , Okay what was the charge of assault ? Verbal assault yeah , verbal assault , okay , yeah , of assault .

Speaker 2 1:05:40

A verbal assault ? Yeah , verbal assault okay .

Speaker 12 1:05:42

Yeah , but also I'll tell you I ran detectives locally here in Broadbent and I said we reopen the case , I'm regrouping , I'm really grounded now and I'll just go through the protocols as best I can . And you know I did say to them the former young girl that lived in the housing commission before me committed suicide .

Speaker 2 1:06:04

Chris , a lot to unpack there , bro , very , very convoluted .

Speaker 5 1:06:08

I will say this , though I know you've said there's no witnesses , no CCTV or anything , but a magistrate's still banned by the law when they make a decision . So there must have been some form of evidence somewhere , and I don't want to get involved in the to and fro around this at all At all but you've done everything that you can . I will say this to you , though you do sound like you have really put yourself back together again .

Speaker 5 1:06:31

And you should be really proud of yourself there , chris , for actually putting yourself back together and being reasonable in your reasoning , in thinking back over that time as well . So kudos to you for that .

Speaker 2 1:06:43

G'day Tony and Roger . I've heard this la-la about juvenile crime in bail for years now . People are dying , being traumatised by a crime . Surely surely 500 or whatever if they are minors . Well , that's , I mean , that's what we're talking about . It requires the law to change . The system can't change unless the laws are in place for the change .

Speaker 5 1:07:07

We would love . Look , you've got to remember . We elect a government , all right , that's the thing , and I don't want to go on this government rampage again . But the bottom line is we elect a government to set the laws and the government are setting the laws . And if you're not happy with that , it's not like we can put 30 members of the public into making decisions .

Speaker 5 1:07:26

Even as a juror and you know , tony , because you've been on a jury even as a jury , you are bound by the rules of evidence . You can't go by your gut feeling or what you want to see happen and you've got no say in what the outcome is , other than guilty or not guilty . That's it , full stop , full stop . All you do is come up with two words and you can't do any commentary about it . No , not at all , none . You're asked a question how do you find Guilty or not guilty ? End of story . And then you are dismissed . So you're not involved in any of the processing of saying I think this person should get 35 years or I think this person should get 10 . And I think it's really , really important that we understand that side of the story , that we don't have members of the public making those decisions and everybody that is working that turns up in the courts , that turns up arresting offenders , are all bound by the Book of Statutes .

Speaker 2 1:08:18

Jason , good morning .

Speaker 19 1:08:21

Tony hi Roger . Thank you very much , roger , for your service as well . I really appreciate it .

Speaker 5 1:08:24

Thank you , jason , I appreciate it .

Speaker 19 1:08:27

In your 40 years of service , you would have seen a lot , right ? So I've got like just a couple of things Like so the war on drugs 40 years ago as opposed to the war on drugs now . Because a lot of my mates are coppers and they go oh , we can't even talk about it , right , because I'm wearing a uniform , we can't say anything . That's right

Criminality, Drugs, and Juvenile Justice

Speaker 19 1:08:45

. Do you think it's not any better , is it ? It's like I feel like it's ten times worse .

Speaker 5 1:08:54

I totally agree with you . There's no argument there ?

Speaker 19 1:08:58

Do you think it's the power of the police they don't have ? Or do you think it's politicians not making the laws to allow you to put people away for bringing in drugs ? Where's it failing they always talk about ? I mean , just arresting some kid with a gram of marijuana is not going to change the world .

Speaker 5 1:09:14

No , no , I totally agree with you there , jason , totally . I could not agree with you more . But let me ask you this how would you fix that problem ? So for me , I've never been on drugs or anything , or drink or smoke , but you're a member of the public , jason , and you're looking on , so just recently not too long ago I spoke to Tony before I had to have a lung transplant about 18 months ago . Okay .

Speaker 19 1:09:41

And when I was in that ward I was talking to a lot of people with lung issues and my surgeon told me that he sees a lot of people that smoke drugs and all sorts of things . They have these horrible lung diseases . And he said to me you know , they should just legalize everything because they're wasting their time , because the health services are seeing more and more and more people mental health , lungs , livers , kidneys , all affected from taking various types of drugs . So I don't know if you can fix . It is what I think . I don't think legalising it is probably not the right thing . Criminalising it is not the right thing . I mean , we're told we can't shoot up drugs , get heroin , but then they go open shooting galleries and I go well , what the government's telling me ? You can go and see that heroin in Richmond .

Speaker 19 1:10:27

That's a great point the police officers are telling me .

Speaker 5 1:10:32

if I go buy heroin , I'm a criminal . And pill testing that's a whole bag of worms . I totally understand that it's a whole bag of worms . But even pill testing at these festivals are we supporting people taking drugs ? Yeah .

Speaker 5 1:10:46

I mean , don't get me wrong , I know people are going to go in and I know there's 50,000 arguments for this and I would probably get blown out of the water with it . But the bottom line is , my argument is always going to if someone can turn up with a pill and get it tested , then you are actually endorsing criminality . It's endorsing poor behaviour . Yeah , it is . It's endorsing criminality Because I want to make this point as well there's no such thing as recreational drug use . It's an oxymoron ? Yeah , of course it is . You're using it recreationally , but it's either illegal or it's not . You're using it recreationally , but it's either illegal or it's not . Yeah Right .

Speaker 2 1:11:20

End of story . So much to cover off . We will try and have another crack . At the other side of this I'm Tony McManus , roger Sutherland is here . A healthy shift 1-double-3-6-9-3 . Trev sent zillions of texts . There's too much to get into . He said . The don't think . The guidelines , the legislation is not changing . The legislation took the discretion away . Well , I think in legislation there is little or no discretion , or is there ? It's an interesting one , isn't it ? So when these things are presented to a court , inside that certainly not a lawyer , but the idea of his or her honour sitting there around a discretion , but it still insists on applying the law .

Speaker 5 1:12:08

Yeah well , that's right , you're guilty , not guilty . And then there's a maximum penalty and , based on what they're hearing in relation to the history , then they either give them a smack or they go the full whack .

Speaker 2 1:12:20

Leanne good morning . Good morning Tony and Roger . How are you both For ? Those that don't know , Leanne's in beautiful Minyip , I think .

Speaker 16 1:12:31

Yeah , 29, . Sorry , nine years yesterday . Good on you , Nine years yesterday , good on you . Yeah , I feel if they imposed cash bonds or bonds on juveniles , there would be a percentage that would come good and wouldn't re-offend , and it would also free up a lot of resources like Life Without Barriers , and it would also free up a lot of resources like Life Without Barriers , hospitals and police as well , also the other first responders , and maybe if somehow a referendum could be set Australia-wide to discuss how to deal with these . I think if you nip the juveniles in the bud , you don't have them as adult criminals .

Speaker 5 1:13:30

It's a great point . It's actually . I totally agree . I've been working with Queensland Youth Justice Department . Now Queensland Youth Justice have their staff ride with a police member in Queensland and they attend to the Queensland jobs , where they're not high-risk jobs but they're going to jobs where juveniles have been involved in crimes and what they do is the youth resource officer or the youth officer that they've got with them not the police person , but the person that's with them actually then uses all the indices and resources available and they can turn people around as in turn , young juveniles around . I've got the solution to all the problems the solution , the solution .

Speaker 2 1:14:13

The solution is here , ladies and gentlemen , the solution from Rog .

Speaker 5 1:14:17

There's got to be a consequence . There's got to be a consequence , there's got to be a consequence .

Speaker 2 1:14:21

But there is for everything .

Speaker 5 1:14:22

Well , no , but there needs to be a consequence for the action and there's not Now , even what Leanne has just said there by saying , even if it was a $500 surety right now , I'm not saying that this is the way to go , but think about it broadly . If you're starting to hit your parents , a lot of these kids don't care about their parents , but a lot of them have got a little pang about their parents in the background as well .

Speaker 5 1:14:45

And if you're starting to hit people financially , if you turn one around , you've had a win . If you turn two around , you've massively won . This is what the youth resource officers or the Queensland Youth Justice Officers work on . If they can turn one around , then they've done their job and done it well , because if they weren't there and didn't turn that person around , then they would have a problem . And I think what Leanne says as well is 100% correct . If we can hit this generation , then as this generation grows up , the next generation won't have the problem . Maybe that's ignorant , I don't know , but we've got to do something , something's got to change , and I don't know what the conversation is . I don't know if it's ignorant .

Speaker 2 1:15:24

I think some of the things have got to be adjusted according to represent the current community expectation . Yeah , I agree , yeah , totally , that's where it is the idea of throwing , and often you'll hear it on this great radio program just whack them all in jail .

Speaker 5 1:15:38

Throw them all in jail .

Speaker 2 1:15:39

That's not the answer . It's not the solution at all , and it comes at enormous cost to put particularly a young person in prison .

Speaker 5 1:15:47

I love the way they turn around and say , oh , put them in jail , but they don't want to have to pay for them . Yeah .

Speaker 2 1:15:53

And then when you say , well , it's in excess of $250,000 a year . A year For a young person Probably more .

Speaker 5 1:16:00

Now yeah , probably more . Yeah , that's right A year . So you want to throw them all in there and pay $250,000 . Where do you think that money comes from ? Don't get me wrong , but you're paying , you and me . Yeah , paul , good morning .

Speaker 2 1:16:11

Gentlemen , trust you both . Well , yeah , great , paul , thank you .

Speaker 11 1:16:14

Thank you , Paul . Congratulations on a career that's got to be one of the most frustrating jobs ever .

Speaker 5 1:16:19

I totally agree with you Rewarding as well , rewarding and also frustrating and frustrating .

Speaker 11 1:16:25

I worked in talking about shift work . I worked in a factory for 28 years and nine months and for 20 years of that I did permanent night shift . My week started Sunday night at 11 o'clock and my last shift was Friday morning at 7 o'clock and I did that for 20 years straight . And now I do two days , two nights and four days off . So it's yeah , I've been doing shift work since . Well , even before the night shift in the factory job , we did days and afternoon shifts and then they let you do permanent night shift because it was too hard to do one shift one week and one shift the next week .

Speaker 11 1:17:07

I've been a shift worker all my working career .

Speaker 5 1:17:11

So , Paul , well done . I'm really curious as to you did the permanent nights . So you did the .

Speaker 2 1:17:18

You're working what Tony's pretty much working here at the moment . Yeah , five mornings a week .

Speaker 5 1:17:21

Yeah , you're doing that five mornings , so you were doing the same as what Tony's doing . How do you find it now working two days , two nights and four off , compared to working the ? Five nights a night shift .

Speaker 11 1:17:37

Oh well , it's probably about the same . About the same , you know , it's all you know , cause , um , I probably don't get as tired now as I do in the foundry , but at the same time my work's a lot easier now than what I used to do . I was always of . You know , you know you have to do it . So you just adjust mentally and you just apply yourself and you're like you know , you used to miss out on a lot of Sundays , but then you got all day Friday , like when I used to work in the foundry , you know .

Speaker 5 1:18:17

You certainly have Tony's sympathy there , because we've had this discussion privately about the impact that it almost ruins your Sunday . Like people say oh , you've got Sunday off because you don't start until midnight , but you've got to prepare for that shift .

Speaker 2 1:18:27

Yeah , you've really got to start . That's a great point , and I don't want to labour this too much , except to say that your weekend really finishes early afternoon , mid-afternoon on Sunday , because you're starting to think about getting a little bit of eat , food eating , having a rest before you jump in the car to start again and coming out again .

Speaker 5 1:18:47

you lose the Friday because you've worked the night of the Friday or the Friday morning . Then you get home , you've got to have some sort of sleep and then you get up and then you're feeling three sheets to the wind because you're not sure whether you're supposed to be vertical or horizontal , because you've been on night shift all week .

Speaker 2 1:19:04

There is that , and just if you look at my personality , I mean , nobody really wants to hang out that at the best of times , let alone when it's tired . But my point around that is that , by definition , shift work for many people can also be quite unsocial . It's not social , oh , it's not social at all . People say , oh , come out for dinner on a Thursday night .

Speaker 5 1:19:34

Well , you can't go for dinner on Thursday night at 7.30 . We underestimate the impact that shift work has on people mentally . Yeah , we do . We've got to do this break .

Speaker 2 1:19:39

We'll come back and wrap work has on people mentally yeah , we do , we've got to do this break . We'll come back and wrap up in just a tick . It is Australia Overnight and I'm Tony McManus Roger's here . Roger Sutherland is saying goodbye . I'm looking at the topics we didn't get to Reducing unplanned leave , increasing morale , increasing productivity , exercising or lack thereof topics we didn't get to this morning . How good were the topics that we did get to . Amazing , great , and thank you for all those callers .

Speaker 5 1:20:04

We'll see you in a couple of weeks' time , you better believe it .

Speaker 2 1:20:07

Would you enjoy the early week's days of retirement ?

Speaker 5 1:20:12

Absolutely , and you can find me at ahealthyshiftcom .

Speaker 2 1:20:17

Ahealthyshiftcom .

Speaker 17 1:20:22

Have a look at that A healthy shiftcom . G'day Russell Howcroft here and I'm Freddie Young . Join us on our brand new podcast , admission , where we peel back the curtain on the world of advertising , media , marketing and ideas in all their wonderful shapes and forms Politics , business , entertainment , retail , architecture , design . There are glorious ideas out there , all designed to win you over , and some that just plain stink Along the way . We discuss the tricks , history and philosophy of ideas . Follow and subscribe to Admission wherever you get your podcasts . New episodes out every Tuesday .