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A Healthy Shift | The Shift Work Podcast
It doesn't have to be this way.
Welcome to A Healthy Shift | The Shift Work Podcast, the podcast helping shift workers thrive while changing how organisations think about people working in 24/7 environments.
Hosted by Roger Sutherland, Australia's Night Shift & Sleep Specialist, this is where evidence meets lived experience.
After more than 40 years of working rotating shifts with Victoria Police, followed by years studying nutrition, circadian biology, chrononutrition, sleep, human performance and women's health, Roger is on a mission to challenge the belief that fatigue, poor sleep, burnout and declining health are simply part of working shifts.
Because they don't have to be.
Whether you're a nurse, paramedic, police officer, firefighter, doctor, aged care worker, manufacturing employee, FIFO worker, miner, pilot, flight attendant, truck driver, dispatcher, or anyone working outside the traditional 9-to-5, this podcast will give you practical, evidence-based strategies to help you sleep better, improve your energy, optimise your health and perform at your best.
If you're a leader, manager, People & Culture professional, WHS specialist, or responsible for leading a 24/7 workforce, you'll discover a different way of thinking about shift work—one that focuses on building shift work capability from within through education, leadership and practical systems that create healthier people, stronger teams and higher-performing organisations.
Each episode explores topics including:
• Shift work
• Night shift
• Sleep after night shift
• Circadian rhythm
• Fatigue management
• Shift worker health
• Nutrition for shift workers
• Chrononutrition
• Recovery and resilience
• Women's health and shift work
• Leadership in 24/7 organisations
• Human performance
• Workplace wellbeing
• Fatigue risk management
• Building healthier, safer and higher-performing workplaces
This isn't another podcast offering generic health tips.
It's a podcast about changing the future of shift work.
Because healthier people create stronger teams.
Stronger teams build better organisations.
And it all starts by understanding how to work with biology, not against it.
It doesn't have to be this way.
A Healthy Shift | The Shift Work Podcast
[158] - Your host on Radio 3AW - Australia Overnight - Talk Back Radio 11/07/2024
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
Text me what you thought of the show 😊
Ever wondered how to manage sleep effectively while working night shifts? Join us for an enlightening conversation with Roger Sutherland, a veteran law enforcement officer and shift work coach, who shares invaluable insights on maintaining healthy sleep habits during irregular work hours. We'll hear from Len, a listener with 26 years of experience in Qantas Catering, and Maggie from Adelaide, who brings a light-hearted touch to the discussion. Together, we uncover the broader implications of sleep issues on productivity and health, offering practical advice and personal stories to help you thrive in shift work.
Discover the hidden toll night shifts can take on relationships and mental well-being in our heartfelt discussion with Johnny, who opens up about the strain on his personal life. We also tackle the topic of melatonin for better sleep, with Bug seeking expert advice on optimizing his schedule. This segment not only highlights the importance of addressing sleep issues but also underscores the need for regular breaks and genuine recuperation to maintain overall well-being.
To wrap things up, we explore strategies for achieving work-life balance and managing high-stress jobs. From Danny's short nap techniques during long shifts to Pete's reflections on various shift rosters, there's a wealth of practical tips to keep you alert and healthy. Roger Sutherland also shares the success of his podcast, "A Healthy Shift," and the extensive resources available on his website. Join us for an episode packed with actionable insights and relatable experiences that will inspire you to prioritize sleep and health in the demanding world of shift work.
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Roger Sutherland is Australia's Night Shift & Sleep Specialist and the founder of A Healthy Shift.
After more than 40 years working rotating shifts with Victoria Police, Roger now helps organisations reduce fatigue risk, improve staff wellbeing and build healthier, safer and higher-performing 24/7 workplaces through evidence-based education, circadian biology and the Shift Work Champions™ Framework.
Shift Work Champions™: https://join.ahealthyshift.com/shift-work-capability
Website: https://ahealthyshift.com.au
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/roger-sutherland
Instagram: @a_healthy_shift
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Disclaimer: Roger Sutherland is not a doctor or a medical professional. Always consult a physician before implementing any strategies mentioned in this podcast. Use of this information is strictly at your own risk. Roger Sutherland will not assume any liability for direct or indirect losses or damages that may result from the use of the information contained in this podcast, including but not limited to economic loss, injury, illness, or death.
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Night Shift Workers and Sleep Issues
Speaker 1But right now it is time for the night shift Commodores . Roger Sutherland is our very special guest . A big call out to the truckies 133693 . All things to do for shift workers , mmm Marvin .
Speaker 3He was a friend of mine and he could sing a song His heart , in every line .
Speaker 1The night shift . Took a while to get there , but we got there . Roger Sutherland , lie the night shift . Took a while to get there , but we got there . Roger Sutherland , a healthy shift . Roger , of course , as you may or may not know , is a veteran law enforcement officer . How many decades Four decades Roger coaches shift workers to thrive , not just survive while working through shift work , and it's all about energy levels . We'll talk about that as we go through the morning together . Hello Roger . Hello Tony how are you ?
Speaker 4Now it was the Carlos Zambetti Ford Laser .
Speaker 1It was the thank you , it was the Laser .
Speaker 4The Ford Laser .
Speaker 1You've been doing some research sitting there in the background , don't ?
Speaker 4give it away . I did do a little bit of research .
Speaker 1David's saying it used to have a Zinnia tie , beautiful and a couple of Versace ties . They are ageless , davis , you're correct , and he's wearing RM Williams socks . Oh , wow , okay Now who owns RM Williams ?
Speaker 4now , I'm not sure it's out of Adelaide , isn't it ? No , no , it was . Was RM Williams out of Adelaide ? I thought it was .
Speaker 1Maybe not it was , but it's now owned by a very famous Australian .
Speaker 4Go .
Speaker 1No , I won't tell you I'll have the audience .
Speaker 4The audience will tell us People in the audience will know yeah , they will .
Speaker 1You watch this . What are we talking about ? Between now through until the next hour or so ?
Speaker 4Well , I want to hear from people who really obviously the people that are listening to us , are the people that are struggling with sleep . But what are they putting it down to ? Are they actually just saying that , oh , I just can't sleep , or are they actually seeking help in relation to why they're not actually sleeping ? Because I've just read a recent piece of research , Tony , which talks about our shift working community . Go , oh , I just don't sleep well , because I'm a shift worker . But in fact , it's shown that majority of Australians do really suffer with sleep issues . It's not just the shift work .
Speaker 4It's a major problem for the economy too Massive , yeah , because it reduces productivity , it increases illness , it causes all sorts of problems . So have people gone and seen doctors about that and what's been the recommendations for people around that ?
Speaker 1If you've recently attended , had a medical practitioner and talked about sleeplessness 133693, . Thank you to all those people texting through the owner of RM Williams these days , Andrew Forrest . Okay , there you go , the great from Fortescue in WA 133693 . Now Lenny in Melton Morning . Len .
Speaker 2Good morning guys . Yeah , it's you for it . Yeah , I did you for Qantas Catering .
Speaker 1We've spoken before , I think Len haven't we ?
Speaker 2Yep , yeah , we have About catering yeah . Yeah , but the thing is you've got to manage your sleep and the fact of the matter is I worked when I first started with Chronister in the early 80s 84 , catering aircrafts . But you're rotating shifts and all that and you do have to manage this , yeah you do Len .
Speaker 1For how many years did you do it ? Just a reminder for people that are hearing this story for the first time 26 years and when you think about it now , if you're writing the book , was it debilitating at the time in terms of family life and social life ? What were the challenges ?
Speaker 2You did have problems , but the fact of the matter was sometimes and over the 26 years I can only remember twice that I had visitors and when I said to them at 7.30 at night , I'm going to bed , I went to bed and that's it . Yeah , it's injuries . At that time we'd just bought a home , we'd had our first child . In all this , and you know , work was priority one .
Speaker 1Yeah , it can be very unsociable too , lenny . Thank you very much for that and it's a great call . It's good to hear from you again . 133693 , maggie in Adelaide . Morning Maggie .
Speaker 3Hi , I'm trying to get rid of a bit of food in my mouth .
Speaker 1Well , that's okay , that's good , Fine , thank you for having a little snack whilst you're on the air .
Speaker 3It's a new program .
Speaker 1It's a new segment called Snacks with Maggie .
Speaker 3Oh God , A snack with .
Speaker 1Maggie , that's right , a snack with Maggie .
Speaker 3What is Simon doing behind the glass ?
Speaker 1Well , he's not much , is he ? That's right , just sitting there looking gorgeous , maggie . But thank you for your inquiry .
Speaker 3No , no , no . I dare say he's eating something that is not altogether healthy .
Speaker 1Well , he came in with a can of . Are we allowed to mention the brand ? We can't Coke , and what else are you eating ?
Speaker 6Nothing . I've got no food this morning because I'm trying to be healthy . Yeah sure , so I've had a full-strength can of sugar , and now I'm about to crack open my can of mother for the morning .
Speaker 1You are a mother , you are , you're a mother supporter .
Speaker 6Yeah , if they're looking for a sponsorship deal Excellent .
Speaker 3Cody , you nearly caught me . Oh , I better not say what I thought then .
Speaker 1No .
Speaker 3But let's say it's mother's milk .
Speaker 4Yes , that is a little bit of that Mother's milk , that's good .
Speaker 1Maggie , you're a great joy to have on the program . Is everything okay in your world ?
Speaker 3No , no , because an hour or two ago 5AA all of a sudden service not available . Have you not heard ?
Speaker 1Sorry what's not available , Maggie , what ?
Speaker 35AA and Adelaide . For some people , I believe , service not available .
Speaker 1Okay , we'll see if we can get that fixed , maggie , but thank you for pointing that out to us . We'll take some calls in just a moment . 1-333-693 , the telephone number , particularly for those we want to hear from the truckies again , don't we that are doing a lot of driving , people that have had maybe years doing overnight work ? Some descriptions have been many . Certainly you think about our first responders , those that work in hospitals .
Speaker 4Hospitals , first responders , people at the airport . We forget about a lot of our shift workers . I actually had an interesting one the other day . It was the people who work in the gambling agencies , because it's a nearly 24-hour service as well and they work from 7am until 5am . They do and I didn't realise and someone said to me oh fancy doing night shift , doing that ? What a sad world . And I thought but events are going on around the world , all the time .
Speaker 4All the time people are doing that , so that was another industry that I hadn't thought of , not to mention all the journalists and people that are sitting here .
Speaker 1That's right . I mean , and that's exactly right . There's people in newsrooms and things doing it all 24 hours a day , Putting it all together , the 24-hour cycle . We will do this break when we come back . Plenty of time for your calls . I'm Tony McManus . Roger Sutherland is here . It's a healthy shift . Well , we hope it is 19 past midnight . Andy , we were sitting here chewing the fat . Roger Sutherland is here , part of Australia Overnight , and a regular contributor talking about the working lives that do shift work . Some of the texts coming in as well . Thank you . I used to have a Zenya tie . We mentioned that . Another one says get smart shoes . This has got nothing to do with shift work , of course , but get smart shoes , get smart shoes . G'day , tony , are shift work , of course , but get smart shoes , get smart shoes .
Speaker 1G'day , tony . Are you old enough to remember one of the famous shop slogans in Adelaide ? It's a thing called you've got to hide , you've got to hide , you've got to hide , gwyn Jones , I still wear their famous leather jackets from 50 years ago . As good as ever . Have a great night , steven , in Aberfoyle Park . Good on you , steve . I don't , but many people right around South Australia would remember that brand and the other one up the top there . Listen , mcmanus , if I had a dollar for every time , I heard that same story for every time you mentioned Western Australia . You're both self-absorbed egomaniacs . Thank you , excellent work . What's the other one ? Where'd you go on holidays , mcmanus ? I only guess Western Australia . Well , no , I didn't . But thank you , tone , that's very kind of you . Spend some time with my brother in Queensland . Where are we up to on this riveting Thursday morning ? We're trying to get some calls from truckies and we're still waiting for them to come in .
Speaker 4133693 for drivers . Where's Christian ? We haven't heard from Christian .
Speaker 1No , I haven't heard from Christian for a while . Well , he's now an office manager .
Speaker 4I know , but I had to sit here until about 20 past 1 , the last time I was in waiting for Christian to call in , and then he did . Eventually . He did finally , yep , finally he did . So what I wanted to talk about was naps , because a lot of people won't nap , and the reason why they won't nap is because they feel like they wake up worse from their actual nap , and this is because they've actually slept , they've gone too long , and research shows that if we nap for 20 to 25 minutes , it actually works really well in just detoxifying , just clearing the adenosine out of our brain and getting us up and about and getting us going , which is really , really beneficial . Now , obviously , you can't nap , although is there a recording ?
Speaker 1of anything , I'm actually napping now .
Speaker 2Yes .
Speaker 4Well , I think our callers are napping at the moment . That's one of the biggest problems that we've got at the moment .
Speaker 1They'll come and join us very shortly . 133693 . For those that have ever worked shift work , those that are drivers you may have worked in a hospital for a long time a medical practitioner . Perhaps you're in those emergency wards and you know more than most , roger . I mean the energy and the energy is probably not the right word but the pressure on those workers working overnight in emergency wards all around Australia .
Speaker 4Yeah , yeah , I think we do forget that , and I know from my own experience of calling into hospitals that those ED departments , emergency departments , are flat out overnight with nurses that are working under heaps of pressure and of course , you know when you go in and then the next thing you've got to go and have a scan or you've got to go and have bloods done and then they've got to have someone analyse it . These people are all people that are working shift , work at night . You know they're not on call , they're not home , sleeping and waiting until they get this . There's actual radiologists working . I'm just trying to think Blood scientists , what do they call the people that analyse blood ? Pathologists , pathologists , yep , pathologists , yep , and they're working . There are doctors working . You know some doctors are working ridiculously long hours , so let's hear it from some of those .
Speaker 1We've got some calls coming up , lots of people from South Australia , 5aa listeners , the 5AA digital frequency we understand now We've spoken to the techs over there currently not working . The techs are well and truly onto it . Good morning , techs . Well we'll see techs , for example , working overnight .
Speaker 4Of course , most of them are on call getting paid huge dollars , yeah right .
Speaker 1They'll be loving you saying that . Tracking down a new hamster for the wheel , that's what they're doing . Thank you very much , johnny . Via mobile Morning .
Speaker 5Hey fellas , how are you ?
Speaker 1Yeah , Johnny , where are you Over ?
Speaker 5I'm driving , I , I'm driving , I'm driving a truck .
Speaker 1Yeah , obviously , but where are you Over ?
Speaker 5I'm in Melbourne .
Speaker 1Go on , okay , all right .
Speaker 5Not in Melbourne . Yeah , I drive the truck and we share it with the other guys doing the night work , the shift works , and I tell you it's frustrating .
Speaker 4you know it's not easy at night to drive and stay awake and try to get the's frustrating .
Speaker 5you know it's not easy at night to drive and stay awake and try to get the job done you know .
Speaker 4Yeah , Johnny , what time did you start today ?
Speaker 5Three o'clock .
Speaker 4Three o'clock this afternoon and you're still going now at midnight , so you've been going nine hours . Yeah , yeah , are you pulling like long haul or are you just doing local runs ?
Speaker 5No , I'm doing , I'm just changing over . I've got the bins . We've got to change over the bins in the construction site .
Speaker 4Okay , yep .
Speaker 5The Westgate Tunnel and all that , and so , yeah , it's like it's a mission doing night shifts , because I don't do it much , but I share it around with the other guys and you know , you've got to make sure you sleep during the day . You know get a couple hours nap during the day that way you'll you know be up awake all night .
Speaker 4Yeah , that's right . But , Joey , let's look at the upside of it as well . How much easier is it for you to move around at night driving a truck than it is trying to battle with everything during the ?
Speaker 5day , though , oh , at night , driving a truck than it is trying to battle with everything . During the day , though . Oh , yeah , like I'm driving now this week on the Bluetooth , but yeah , like the freeway , it's like literally anything , it's like you know .
Speaker 4That's the upside , isn't it ?
Speaker 5Yeah , yeah , definitely the upside . Yeah , yeah , but you know it's challenging though it is challenging . You know doing night work . You know it's challenging though it is challenging . You know doing night work , you know .
Speaker 1Tell us about Johnny just very quickly because we've got other calls I need to get to Tell us about the family environment and the stresses , if any , that that comes under .
Speaker 5Well , I'm separated , so you know , for me , my kids are with their mum so it's a bit easier on my end , but otherwise , yeah , I think if I was in a normal household with you know , the kids and the wife , it'd be a bit different . So I can't really judge on that , but yeah . I can only imagine if you know when you have a whole family and you're going to work around that .
Speaker 4Did the shift work impact on your relationship ? Is that the reason why you're separated ? I mean other than a whole range of things , but I know shift
Impact of Shift Work on Relationships
Speaker 4work relationships are really challenging . Very very challenging for people .
Speaker 5Yeah , it did . I was working at night and , and you know , didn't get to see the you know the other half all the time , so it did have a bit of an impact on it , to be honest yeah , and also the mental health too , doesn't it ?
Speaker 4because you're out and about , you just want to be home and you're missing any family events that you want to be able to go to , or you know , parties and things like that that you want to be able to go to with your partner that you can't do because you are literally out there and working . It's a lonely business , isn't it ?
Speaker 5Yeah , exactly right 100% .
Speaker 4Are you doing all right with it now ?
Speaker 1Yeah , everything's good now , excellent , Everything's good now , yeah , hey , johnny , just a quickie so people know approximately what age group are you and for how long have you been doing shift work occasionally 39 years old .
Speaker 5So yeah , I've been doing it for over 10 years now .
Speaker 1Great call , Johnny . Keep up the great work . That's a wonderful call from Johnny out there in the driving around .
Speaker 4Excellent . We forget about the impact that shift work actually has on us mentally and also on relationships Really important .
Speaker 1Hey , mark , good morning to you . Yes , mark , we'll come back to Mark , mark is it ?
Speaker 7Mark .
Speaker 1Doug . I beg your pardon , Doug . Hello , Doug , it's got up there . Mark , Forgive us my fault . What's happening in your world ? It's bug .
Speaker 7B-U-G . B-u-g .
Speaker 1Bug .
Speaker 7B-U-G . B-u-g .
Speaker 4The bug .
Speaker 1Like a little bug , like the bug .
Speaker 7Yeah , but a big bug . My mates like to call'm a pest .
Speaker 4That can't be right . You're the bug on night shift . Watch the blue lights . That's right . Not the light , not the light .
Speaker 1This has made the morning for most of us . Really , given everything else , this is the first time , I think , we've actually spoken to a bug on the radio .
Speaker 7Actually , you spoke to me a couple of weeks ago and we spoke about diet .
Speaker 1Ah , yes .
Speaker 7I got the tick of approval on the diet , which was super good , but I did want to talk to you about melatonin .
Speaker 7I haven't used it . So I'll give you an example of what I'm going to do tonight . So I left at four o'clock this afternoon from Melbourne . I'm almost in Sydney . I'm going to pull up at about two o'clock and grab two hours sleep I'll try to and then , once I do that delivery , then I'm going to our depot where I'm going to have my seven hour break . And I'm wondering in that two hour period , would that melatonin be useful at all , or is it actually a bad thing to have it there ?
Speaker 4no , well , melatonin no , I wouldn't be having it at that 2 am , um , but that when you get to the depot and you're going to have that seven hour sleep , that would be the time to take the melatonin about half an hour to an hour beforehand , if you can to take melatonin , then melatonin is a natural hormone so it is perfectly safe for people to take and it's ideal for shift workers to take melatonin because it helps us to just drift off and get off to sleep because melatonin is our hormone , that's our precursor to sleep . So if you have that nap , just have that nap . That try for an hour and a half , for 90 minutes in that time . Once you get to the depot at 2am , go for an hour and a half and then get to wherever you've got to get to , and then I would be taking the melatonin and having that good sleep , a good melatonin-induced drop-off and sleep to go with that . That would be the ideal time to take it .
Speaker 7Okay , and you were talking these two different types of melatonin . There's one that's prescription-based .
Speaker 4No , no what I'm saying . We have to be very careful with melatonin that we purchase over the shelf , because the efficacy of melatonin is really , really suspect right in bottles . Even from one bottle , different capsules can actually have more or less melatonin in them . So if you're going to take melatonin , go and see your doctor . Tell your doctor you need melatonin . They'll give you a pharmaceutical-grade , prescription-based one .
Speaker 5Okay , okay .
Speaker 1Hey Bug , look after yourself .
Speaker 7I will do All right . Thanks for the help .
Speaker 1Good on you , mate Bye . What a great name Bug . I just love it . Yeah , and , of course , out there working on the phones . What did we have , mark ?
Speaker 6Oh yeah , Well , it's a bad phone line . You heard the static . I thought he said Mark , but he said Bug . It sounds the same .
Speaker 1Yeah , and then you can hardly say dug off , bug off , yeah , well , I'm a bit deaf and a bit stupid so I apologise , thank you .
Speaker 1133693 . Sal , we'll come to you . The other side of this , it's Australia Overnight . Tony McManus and Roger Sutherland . Here we're looking at all the quizzical questions around working overnight those that work night shift . Is that you Come and join us ? 133693 . Sally , we'll come to you in just a tick in Adelaide . 133693 is the telephone number . Tony McManus . Here , roger Sutherland , we made the point that having a break , that mid-year break for 10 days going away , catching up with the brother in Queensland , but it actually it's not until you take the break . This is not new information . It's not until you take the break you realise you actually ended the break .
Speaker 4Well , I've actually watched you and I've been concerned that you've gone so long , from January right the way through until you took that break in June , and I thought he's going to really start to suffer and you will . Shift work is one of those things that you must give your body a break from , so I would never , ever , go as long as you went .
Speaker 1I don't know it's difficult , except in my mind it says well , this is not like we're going down the coal mines , this is not like I'm working in a you know a heat of the moment hospital ward , very stressful on your body Very , very stressful on your body , is it ? Though .
Speaker 4Yes , it is . It's restful on your body and you need to just give it a break to get itself back into a nice normal diurnal circadian rhythm , which is a normal day . I think people that do night shift in particular need to come back or flip back into that normal day . I mean , you do it really well because I know you go home and you'll sleep and then you'll get up and then you'll go back and have another nap , which is , in my opinion , that's the key to doing shift work really , really well night shift .
Speaker 1And eating correctly . Eating less , curiously , eating less and no drinking , of course .
Speaker 4That's another thing , too , because when you're on night shift and you're doing night shift for a whole week , five nights of it it does give you a break from the gas , doesn't it ? Having said that , I'm alcohol-free since the 1st of .
Speaker 1January . You're unbelievable . I'm still off it and look at you , sel Adelaide . Thanks for waiting , sel , good morning .
Speaker 9Good morning , how are you ?
Speaker 1We're well , thank you .
Speaker 9I somehow have trained my body to have very little sleep . It's been years of just my body deciding I don't need it . But when I find I don't even get that little bit of sleep , I find I'm very overtired and very sleepy . So on my half-hour lunch break I will have my 20-minute cat nap .
Speaker 9set my alarm so I make sure I don't go over and I feel so refreshed afterwards . So what you were saying before about having your 20 minute nap if you're gonna nap , it is refreshing and will get you through the rest of the day .
Speaker 4Sally , you are the queen . I love hearing that because , um , we , when I say we can train our body , some people need a lot of sleep , some people don't . Um , and you're , you're clearly one of those people that doesn't need a lot . But what I absolutely people don't , and you're clearly one of those people that doesn't need a lot . But what I absolutely love about what you've just told us is that you are listening to your body , that if you do need that cat nap or that what we call a power nap , set your clock for 20 , 25 minutes , get in , get out , and how much better do you feel because of it ? So much better .
Speaker 9Oh , a lot better . And I work in admin so I'm in front of a computer which is draining at the best of times . So quite often it's that little kickstart to then be able to go . Okay , I can get through this afternoon . If I don't have it because , for whatever reason , I haven't felt tired or I've not taken my lunch break properly , I actually struggle in the afternoon if I'm feeling that way and I struggle to get through because my body's telling me it's tired and I haven't let it recover . That little cat nap .
Speaker 4Right , and this is where it's important to note as well for people the reason why you do feel tired and that what we call a sleep homeostat that pressure builds and builds and builds , and your body is doing absolutely everything that it possibly can to try and get you to sleep . And this is where it becomes really dangerous for people that end up having those micro naps when they're driving . They think they're doing really well , but you don't realize that your body internally , intrinsically , is literally trying to make you sleep because we count on it . So by you actually having that nap , what you do is you release that sleep pressure and that's why your body functions so much better again , because your body's had that pressure released .
Speaker 1Well done . Thank you , sal , it's a great call . 133693 . Terry , good morning to you and thank you for joining us on Australia Overnight .
Speaker 8Good morning boys . How are you doing ?
Speaker 1Well , we're well , thank you .
Speaker 8I've been a funeral director for 38 years and have done my fair share of night shifts .
Speaker 4Yeah .
Speaker 8So yeah , I never see there's another organisation that I completely forget about that .
Speaker 4you know , like the government undertakers , that I've had plenty of dealings with overnight , that they've got to come out and collect remains and things like that Stressful .
Speaker 8Most of us we're contracted . We're not actually government undertakers or funeral directors , we're actually contracted to the coroners . But it's also the other companies that aren't contracted to the coroners that do transfers all through the night . You know , somebody passes away in a nursing home or a private family home . Yes , they don't have the facilities to hold the loved one .
Speaker 4Yes , so we do the transfers there and then so there's another industry that I hadn't even thought of , Tony .
Speaker 1For how long have you been doing that , Terry ?
Speaker 8I've been a funeral director 38 years .
Speaker 1Wow , and so you could get a call . Presumably you're asleep and you might get a call at any time throughout the morning .
Speaker 8Yep , yep , pretty much . But what I do , I take it the easy way . Now I've just turned 60 and I'm past getting out of bed at 2 o'clock in the morning to go and do a transfer . So I have a subcontractor that does that sort of work for me now . I just take the phone calls now , so it's a bit easier on the body .
Speaker 1And historically , what would you say ? The strains that puts on family , puts on health ? General demeanour .
Speaker 8I don't have any issues from that perspective . It's probably missing out on family events usually . Unfortunately , you know death can happen at any time . So when the phone rings we've got to answer and we've got to mobilise . You know we don't really have much of a choice other than leave the function if we're at that and that can sort of drive your partner sometimes crazy .
Speaker 4Yeah , terry , can I just ask you a question , if I can too , about that ? You're dealing with death and you're also dealing with quite high emotion for quite some time as well , because it's not like you're going to a happy place when you turn out as well . Do you find that's impacted on your mental health , or can you separate yourself from it ?
Speaker 8In some way you learn to separate yourself because you don't have a personal involvement .
Speaker 4Yes .
Speaker 8We don't have a personal involvement , yes , but we do have access to counsellors and speaking to other colleagues in the industry to sort of get it off your chest , you know , Yep , Sort of no good botting that . So look , I've got plenty of mates that you know they find the solution to their issue in the bottom of a bottle . Yes , that's not going to help out the problem for long term .
Speaker 4No , that's absolutely true . A lot of people are like that they don't have mental health strategies in place and this is one thing that I am working with clients on a lot and we need to make sure that we are looking after our mental health , because shift work , that desynchronisation of our circadian rhythm , causes us all sorts of problems with our mental health .
Speaker 1At some point , Terry , are you thinking about winding down at 60 plus now ?
Speaker 8Well , we're sort of on the road to retirement , I suppose , but you never really stop . No , of course not . It's not a job anymore and it hasn't been for quite some time . It's my vocation , basically , and having the ability to be there for families and help them out in their , you know , during that probably darkest period of their life , it sort of it does bring a lot of satisfaction , you know , to be able to help people out in that situation .
Speaker 1What about the idea of detachment ? It's a bit like a law officer the coppers that do amazing jobs . How do you
Work-Life Balance and Coping Strategies
Speaker 1work it around being somehow detached from a lot of the emotion and the trauma during those times ?
Speaker 8When I'm away from my work . I've got a pretty good sense of humour and a pretty good outgoing personality and that helps , you know , just to sort of yeah , some people would say that I , you know , yeah , pretty outgoing , I would think . And you know , I have a couple of outlets where I sort of mix with other people and I'm a Freemason and I sort of mix with a lot of different guides there from different walks of life and enjoy my fishing . That's where I do my most relaxing , you know , when I'm fishing .
Speaker 4And this is where it's really important have something outside of the , to have something outside of your job that you can focus on . That's important .
Speaker 1Terry , another time , another conversation . Come and join me . Let's find out more about Freemasonry and how that looks today , in 2024 , and the value that provides in terms of mental health in particular .
Speaker 8No problems at all . You take care guys . Have a good night . Good on you , terry .
Speaker 1Thank you for that , what a great call . 13 to 1 . Thank you , phantom .
Speaker 10Very common .
Speaker 4You phantom very common line uh , danny , in port augusta , good morning good morning sonny , good day roger .
Speaker 10How you going well , danny , how are you good , my good . Yeah , a big opportunity of uh napping , if I can um . Well , when I show for you to do it . Anytime I could get 10 , 15 , 20 minutes sleep in between jobs I would um . But even now as a security guard , you know know , I'm doing patrols . I'm on call for up to 12 hours at a time . But if I've done my first lot of patrols and I've got a lunch break in the Bird of Commons , well then I'll sleep then as well .
Speaker 4Yeah .
Speaker 10Because the longer you're on the road , it's the same as if you're drinking alcohol . Your body just can't cope with that amount of stress for up to 12 hours or 14 hours solid driving .
Speaker 4Well , they actually say that night shift . If you've gone about three nights , it's the equivalent to being 0.05 .
Speaker 10Yeah , yeah . And that's why whenever I've got downtime where because I'm on a text , this long call , but a bit like the other guys , if I get a phone call then I spring to action . But if there's just nothing happening and I've done what I need to do for the time being , then I'll take a break and just grab some sleep , if I can .
Speaker 4Yep , and that nap . How do you feel after ? Do you find that you just are in tune with your body , and when your body's ready , you just go . That's it . I'm just going to nap and just zone out for 20 minutes , set an alarm , or what do you do ?
Speaker 10I set an alarm to make sure I don't overslope . I pass my next block . For example , if you want , Yep . But yeah , definitely 15 to 20 minutes at a time , especially if you've gone like two hours without a break . You'll feel so much better and so much more energetic and just alert so much more after that sort of 15 , 20-minute block .
Speaker 4Another vote for the nap . Tony , You've got to love the nap . You've got to love the nap .
Speaker 1You do love the nap . Hey , danny , it's a great call and thank you very much for that . One of the things I was going to say have you and I had a conversation about the full moon ? We can no , we haven't , but we can . We should have that conversation .
Speaker 4Oh , definitely .
Speaker 1Maybe next time , because I think that's powerful . Oh , it's massive Pete Pete in Wodonga .
Speaker 6good morning good morning how are you ? Good morning .
Speaker 8How are ?
Speaker 6you . I gave ship work away the past 30 years now . I did it for 11 years and did 3 shift roster . Then I went to they made us go to a 4 shift roster and that was a killer .
Speaker 4What's 4 shift . Tell me what a 4 shift roster is ?
Speaker 6you work right around weekends and all that a four shift roster is . You work right around weekends and all that . So three shift roster was afternoon , day shift and night shift . Night shift yep , yeah , and you're doing that with four shift . But what you're doing , you're working weekends too . But the other one you had weekends off when you had three shift roster , oh , okay .
Speaker 6Yeah , but some days you only get a one and-day break , and then you'd be back at work again , and some days you get a four-day break and then you're back at work again . Oh yeah .
Speaker 4What was the rotation ?
Speaker 6That was happening in Warship Roster , yeah , and I did it for six weeks and I said no , that's not it . I gave it away , the best thing I ever did . But what I found I was only young then but what I found blokes who were retiring , the ones who were doing ship work . Five years later , they'll just turn up their tails .
Speaker 4Yeah , that's so true , absolutely .
Speaker 6No , this is not on us . I'm not going to hang out that long and do the same thing .
Speaker 1Life's too short , Pete . We're going to run out of time . Pete , what was ?
Speaker 6the nature of the work . Are you allowed to say , uncle Ben's ? When I was working in Kangaroo I was in charge of all the canning section of the utility Yep .
Speaker 1Uncle Ben's . There you go .
Speaker 6One thing when I did finish work there six months later , I was still dreaming of bloody cans . That's how much I get .
Speaker 1The impact dreaming of cans .
Speaker 4Yeah , going down the assembly line , yeah .
Speaker 6After six months I finished work there . I was still dreaming about them . I had nightmares about them .
Speaker 1Do you still dream of cans ?
Speaker 6No , no , no .
Speaker 4Different coloured cans now . They're different coloured cans now , aren't they ?
Speaker 1Hey , Uncle Ben's , that was part of Mars . Have I got that right ?
Speaker 6That's right , they were pet food .
Speaker 1Yeah , the pet food division .
Speaker 6Exactly right , exactly yeah .
Speaker 1There you go , because I think they had from memory they had similar programs in Ballarat for a long time .
Speaker 6Yeah , fn Foods , they called themselves actually yeah , back in those days .
Speaker 1Hey , great to talk to you . Nice to talk , Pete .
Speaker 6No worries , they're still going too .
Speaker 1Yeah , I'll bet they are .
A Healthy Shift Podcast Outreach
Speaker 1Keep on going . Thank you for that . Back in just a moment to wrap up , it's four minutes away from one Australia overnight . Good morning , Roger Sutherland . If people want to know more , have a look at the website , which is simply called ahealthyshiftcom . Numerous resources , lots of links there . A healthy an Instagram , a underscore healthy underscore shift .
Speaker 4Yes , thank you , tony , and I've got the podcast up into the top 30 in Australia at the moment , which is fantastic yeah it's great news . It's a healthy shift podcast . Thank you very much again for having me .
Speaker 1And we'll see you in a couple of weeks' time . Roger Sutherland , A Healthy Shift Open line coming your way . The other side of the news , Come and join us . Anything you want to raise , feel free .