Night Shift Workers and Sleep Disorders

Speaker 3 0:31

Music , great song , a healthy shift . Thank you , roger , roger . Roger is in the studio , roger Sutherland shift workers that thrive , not just survive , while working night shift . Roger is here and we have a chat about what's it like working a night shift right across Australia 133693 . If you'd like to join in the conversation , keep those text messages coming as well . Have a look at the website ahealthyshiftcomau .

Speaker 5 0:57

Roger , good morning . Good morning to you , tony , and a big happy birthday from the other side of the bench , it is the other side of the bench .

Speaker 3 1:05

It is the other side of the bench and it's lovely to be here spending the eighth birthday with people as part of the program .

Speaker 5 1:10

I think it's fantastic . I get to spend the first bit with you , I get to see it in with you and you've got five and a half hours awake . To start it off with Thank you as a gift , we'll let you sleep .

Speaker 3 1:21

Do you remember being about 16 , 17 or 18 and thinking life's going along pretty well If I get to 21 , maybe 25 , that'll do me in , I reckon .

Speaker 5 1:32

Yeah , remember how old you were when you were 25? .

Speaker 3 1:35

So old so old , so old .

Speaker 5 1:37

And you knew everything . You were so old .

Speaker 3 1:41

That's exactly right . And you thought life was pretty good . And you said now life will be really good . When I get married , Life will be pretty good . You know , when I get a house , Life will be pretty good , when I get that car that I've always wanted .

Speaker 3 1:56

Yep , exactly Life will be pretty good when Melbourne win a grand final . Life will be pretty good when I get that new pair of shoes for which I've always lusted . Life will be pretty good when I get that new pair of shoes for which I've always lusted . Life will be pretty good when I get that first , amiga . Here's the thing . None of that makes any difference .

Speaker 5 2:10

No , it doesn't no difference . No , it makes absolutely no difference , because there's always something else . Isn't there Always ?

Speaker 3 2:16

something else . Lots of people want to have their say . We'll get to you in just a moment , so stay dungy and go away .

Speaker 8 2:28

But join in just a moment . So stay dodgy , go away , but join in any time , chris O . Good morning Chris . Hi , tony Mack .

Speaker 3 2:29

I like to put this to you as constructive criticism . Please do , as opposed to deconstructive criticism .

Speaker 8 2:33

Alright , but this may only be me , Tony , and I'm only one person that does it the hundred thousands that will listen . But I'm fine because I've been up all night tonight and my sleeping patterns , my body clock , is really up and down every night because Well , we've got the right man here to talk you through that .

Speaker 8 2:49

We're not really getting accessible time for talk back , predominantly to after 4am . So therefore I find if I stay up and I like to have a say about topical issues or something very instrumental that you put to air , but then I'm fine , I'm not getting to sleep at quarter past eight by six in the morning and then getting up two hours later and it's not very good for my health and I also understand the target audience you have with Rolling Stones , Beatles and stuff like that . But I'm not saying to ditch those things . They're very good for a lot of people of an older generation .

Speaker 8 3:22

But , we're only looking for a bit of variety too , because whenever I start bringing up things for the 80s , late 80s , for the 90s and the stuff that I'm familiar with , I sort of get put off air or it gets cut out , it gets dumped , that part of the call .

Speaker 3 3:35

No , that's not true at all . You've made that up , Chris , for yourself . That is certainly not true . I wish we had the technology to be able to do that , but we don't .

Speaker 8 3:44

Yeah , but look , what I'm saying is I've given my all For AW and for Australia overnight and from the Melbourne overnight they kept me safe and well out of harm's way , away from detrimental people . I've had a really positive lifestyle , a very cheerful experience and I don't want to let go of it . But I'm not saying to change the whole format , but sadly I have to sometimes switch over to Clinton , maynard or Mark Jeffries because there's some very important things that are touched in the hearts of a lot of Australians at the moment , and so why don't you come in here and you could be the producer one morning ?

Speaker 8 4:19

No , no , no , I'm not the producer , because I confronted Ben and I said Ben , the whole format has gone upside down . So all those long-term regular calls like myself , and the calls over that seven , eight years with Tony Moakley , they're all going on to Tony Moakley's daytime show .

Speaker 3 4:35

Yeah , and why were they not ? Tony Moakley is one of the finest broadcasters in the country .

Speaker 8 4:41

Yeah , but I can't identify . I like to listen to the calls . I even like Marcus Stahl .

Speaker 4 4:46

We all do .

Speaker 8 4:47

Even though I spent more than 14 years in the ALP , because I even said but the reason why Marcus Stahl does what he does is because he's probably right along the line , chris .

Speaker 3 4:55

We're going to move on , but thank you very much for your worthwhile feedback . Excellent workout . Now Roger's here , roger , from a healthy shift . Thank you for being here . It's interesting so people like Chris and there are many , many people not dissimilar to Chris who have those issues with sleep pattern , and that's one of the reasons we get you in to talk about it ?

Speaker 5 5:13

Yeah , we do . Obviously , we don't want people to turn off and be asleep while we're here no , we don't . But we also want people to be able to get themselves back into a nice rhythm as well and track back to what the problems is . Do you know I was actually reading some research during the week that we are now in a position this is brand new research that's only come out a lot of shift workers don't go and get help for sleep disorders , right ? So someone like you might go oh , I don't sleep well during the day . And you think , oh well , I just don't sleep well during the day . I'm working shift work , so that makes sense . Do you know ? More than 40% of Australians at middle age actually have a sleep disorder ? Yeah , so what ? They ?

Speaker 3 5:56

do ? Is they which the good doctor Mosley who we lost ?

Speaker 5 6:00

during the week in .

Speaker 3 6:01

Greece . He would often talk about that .

Speaker 5 6:03

Yes , that's exactly right . So what we do is we need to go in and speak to our doctor to get help , because it may very well be a sleep disorder that just needs addressing in whatever way they can address that , instead of actually just writing it off to shift work , and that's what the research was saying . We need to question the reason why we're not sleeping properly , other than just having it written off that way .

Speaker 3 6:27

All right , this morning we want to hear from drivers . Those that might be driving a truck could be an Uber , taxis . Who else would be driving around this time of the morning in your vast experience .

Speaker 5 6:36

Just normal transport trucks , mail trucks as in M-A-I-L , not M-A-L-E Mail trucks . What else would there be ? We're just sort of after people that drive

Shift Worker Transitioning Sleep Patterns

Speaker 5 6:47

. Do you actually take your food with you , or do you stop and buy food ?

Speaker 2 6:52

on the way .

Speaker 5 6:54

And when you do , what do you carry it in ? Like , do you have yourself an esky ? Do you carry a thermos ? What do you eat when you're in the truck or you're driving around ? Do you keep it with you or do you stop and buy ? I want to hear I know they're out there listening . I want to hear from people what their choice is or if I can help them with it .

Speaker 3 7:12

And presumably it's different for a short as opposed to long haul . There will be different patterns and rhythms around that , I would imagine . Yeah , drivers are going to be taxi drivers are going to be different because they can pull over , they can have a stop , maybe thermos or whatever it is they do and catch up . If they're on a rank , catch up with other like-minded drivers .

Speaker 5 7:28

But we have , like Christian , that calls in , drives a truck , drives many , many hours .

Speaker 3 7:32

Well , he's doing more office work these days , yes , but yes , historically yes .

Speaker 5 7:36

Someone like him . As a long haul driving many , many hours , he's not going to stop a 22-wheeler to just pull over and have a thermos of coffee . No , or is he ?

Speaker 3 7:47

No , he might be slipping in for the little bit of dim sim .

Speaker 5 7:51

The dim sim , that's right , the old dim sims in the Bay of Maroon At the roadhouse .

Speaker 3 7:54

That's right , we've got to do this . When we come back , plenty of time for your calls , come and join us . 133693 . 1336 , 133-133-693 . We'll come to Kev . We'll come to Danny and David . You'll be next Australia overnight . So the question on the board . You can call about anything too , by the way . 133-693 . Thank you to those lovely people sending messages through for the birthday . We'll get to that in the next hour or so , but much appreciated from you . Andy , sean , we love you , of course . A regular contributor . Another text ending there in 950 . Don't disagree . Thank you . Michael's saying happy birthday . Tony Mack , it's very kind of everybody . We want to take some calls . Let's go . Kev . Sunshine morning , kev .

Speaker 10 8:34

Morning Tishload of happy returns to you , Mack Pack .

Speaker 3 8:39

That's very kind .

Speaker 10 8:40

Which reminds me I've got to get a vest . I've got to get into BC and F and get one of those vests and greetings to the Dodger as well . You know , when the Beatles and the Stones are on , when they waft into the kitchen while I'm listening , I always sing along . Of course . It really effervesces me and I sing along . So please never stop Beatles and Stones .

Speaker 3 9:02

Good on you , Kev .

Speaker 10 9:02

But just in the spirit of all things Beatlesque , at the moment , life is what happens to you while you're busy doing other things .

Speaker 3 9:11

That's right . Thank you Excellent . I think that was your best , john Lennon , was it .

Speaker 10 9:16

Just about mate .

Speaker 3 9:17

Good on you , kev , excellent work . It's funny . So with programming music it's one of the most difficult , challenging things that ever . I mean there are people that have dedicated their lives to programming music on a radio station , for example . You can never please everybody .

Speaker 5 9:31

No , you never will .

Speaker 3 9:32

So you target that certain demographic and you tend to go back to ones that people are instantly familiar with . They don't necessarily always love it , but at least they're familiar with a song , Do you ?

Speaker 5 9:43

know what I absolutely love these days , tony about music the stumbling in song that was made famous by Yarm and it's back and it's back in a new format and all the kids are singing it . When we start singing it , they go . How do you know that ? How do you know ?

Speaker 3 9:59

that Susie Quatro back in the day . Oh yeah , and the lead singer of Smokey , chris Chris Nott . Chris Nott , no , not Chris Nott Chris . He'll come back to us in just a moment . It's right on the tip of Danny in Port Augusta . Who's the driver ? Morning Danny .

Speaker 12 10:14

Tony Mack . Happy birthday , mate .

Speaker 3 10:16

Thank you , and Roger is here .

Speaker 12 10:17

G'day , Roger , how you going mate .

Speaker 5 10:19

I'm very well . How are you ?

Speaker 12 10:21

Good , how are you Good , mate ? So yeah , I'm a security guard . I've got a question for you , mate . So I've actually done five nights overnight , so 7pm start till 6am finish , and Friday , saturday . I've now got a transition into daytime shift , like starting 8am and 6am , going sort of 8 and 12 hour shifts . What's the best way to sort of so ? For example , tomorrow morning should I get up earlier and just try and push through the day awake and then try and get back into a sleep pattern for the nighttime , or what do you reckon is the best way to do that ?

Speaker 5 10:57

I'm sorry , I just misunderstood what your pattern was . It was Okay .

Speaker 12 11:02

I've just done five nights of overnight , so 7pm to 6am .

Speaker 5 11:07

Okay , so 11 hours , yep .

Speaker 12 11:08

Yep , I've got a day off tomorrow .

Speaker 5 11:11

Yes .

Speaker 12 11:11

And then on Friday , saturday . So Friday I start at 8am and finish at sort of afternoon , and then Saturday 6am to 6pm .

Speaker 8 11:21

Yep .

Speaker 12 11:21

And then going back . I've got Sunday off and then starting back into a whole week of nights again doing the same 7th or 6th ?

Speaker 5 11:28

Yep , absolutely Okay . So when you finish your five nights at 6 am , you want to be getting home and you want to have now . Listen to me carefully you want to have either three hours or four and a half hours of sleep . Generally it would be four and a half . No one wants to wake up after the three , but if you do happen to go to bed and wake up a bit earlier , get straight up , get up open the blinds , expose yourself to some sunlight , take yourself for a walk , keep yourself occupied all day and keep yourself going . Don't flop on the couch . You've got to get that daylight outside and that will set you up so you can go to sleep that night and then you'll be up and ready to do your 8 o'clock the next day . Does that make sense ?

Speaker 12 12:11

Yeah , mate , yeah , so just shorten the sleep pattern

Shift Worker Sleep Patterns and Nutrition

Speaker 12 12:15

. Yes , so less than five hours get up , get straight up and wake up , have a shower and then get out and just get on to sleep In the daylight .

Speaker 5 12:24

Get out in the daylight , have your coffee , have your caffeine obviously , everyone needs caffeine when they wake up so have your caffeine , but get outside . The key is to get outside into that daylight . That's the most important thing that you can do , and then what will happen is that will help to reset you back into that day day and then you'll have your day off I think from memory and then you then go back into five nights , even on your first night that you're going back into night , get up early that day . You want to get up early on the first night or night shift that you're going to do . Get up early and then go through that day but have like a 90-minute poppy nap in the afternoon before you go in .

Speaker 12 13:04

Okay , so I finish this morning at 6 am . Yes , right , have five hours sleep , get up before lunchtime and just push through into tomorrow night . So Thursday night Yep , yep and then try and get to bed by about 6 or 8 o'clock at night , maybe 9 .

Speaker 5 13:21

8 or 9 .

Speaker 12 13:22

Yeah , and then get up again for Friday , Saturday and then on Sunday when I've got to go back into night shift at the 7pm Sunday night , what would you reckon ?

Speaker 5 13:34

Get up early , go all day , have a poppy nap for about an hour and a half in the afternoon , late afternoon , and then go in and start that first night .

Speaker 12 13:43

Yeah , cool , no drama .

Speaker 3 13:44

Good on you and keep in touch . It's a real pattern . It takes a little while to sort of work it out for yourself , doesn't it ? I've noticed . So yeah , today I got up , I was there , Then I had an appointment , so after about three and a half four hours , went for a walk , did all that , had the appointment , had something to a laugh and then had another four or five hours leading . So it's a split . It's certainly a split sleep no question about that .

Speaker 7 14:07

It doesn't matter , though . It works for me I feel fantastic tonight . Still getting it .

Speaker 3 14:10

Yep , when are we off to David in Box Hill Morning David .

Speaker 14 14:16

Morning Gents . Roger , I've spoken to you before and you know I was listening to your last caller and exactly the same . I sort of tend to chop and change two nights and back to days . The only thing I've found is you're right , if I am going back to days , I'll get up early , stay up all day and then you go to bed about 8 o'clock . My wife might want a bit of a kiss and a cuddle and I'm exhausted , so I'm not much used to it , but that's the only thing I've found .

Speaker 5 14:41

Don't you hate it when that happens . That's terrible , isn't it ? Don't you hate ?

Speaker 3 14:45

it when that happens ? No , we love it .

Speaker 14 14:48

No , we don't love it . Quick question I have been like tonight or in the morning when I get home , you know I've got a separate room . It's dark , quiet . I will take a melatonin when I get home . I'm just curious can your body become well if I only take one melatonin , say you know , when I'm doing night shift , can your body become used to it ? Or can you , you know , can you overdo it on melatonin ?

Speaker 5 15:18

Negative ? No , you can't . I had actually recorded a podcast today with Dr Greg Potter and we discussed melatonin , and because melatonin is a hormone , it's not a sleeping tablet , it actually is very effective for shift workers . Now , one thing that I wanted to say about melatonin is do make sure that you get a scripted melatonin , because they've done plenty of studies on melatonin . Some of it can be 80% less than what they're saying . Some of it can be 480% more than what they're saying in the bottle as well . The efficacy of melatonin is really bad . And how much are you taking as in ? I know you say you take one , but how many milligrams is it ?

Speaker 14 15:59

Well . To answer your first question , yes , you're right , I'm getting it online from America , the bottle , and so that's a Well . To answer your first question , yes , you're right , I'm getting it online from America , the bottle , and so that's a fair statement . You don't know the accuracy or the amount in it , but 10 milligrams . They say they're 10 milligram tablets .

Speaker 5 16:15

That's another thing that I need to just be clear for people with melatonin as well . Melatonin is only a precursor to sleep , so more is not better . So what you want to be doing in the recommended dose of melatonin is only a precursor to sleep , so more is not better . So what you want to be doing in the recommended dose of melatonin is half a milligram to two milligram , because all melatonin does is the precursor to sleep , just puts you to sleep . The rest of it doesn't make any difference at all . Now , you might have tried another one before , too low , but what you need to do is you need to make sure that the efficacy is right , and that's why you see a doctor . A doctor will only ever prescribe between half a milligram and two milligrams just to put you off .

Speaker 5 16:52

It's not like a drug , and no it doesn't impact on your own hormonal melatonin production at all . There's no research to support that at all .

Speaker 14 17:00

And it won't help me get a kiss on the cull at the end of the night .

Speaker 3 17:04

Yeah , good If you could just give a full written report at your leisure and pleasure . Thank you , Thank you . We shouldn't dismiss that because it is an issue . So you still want to have some sort of life over and above walking and talking and still catching up with the person that you love and have that relationship . It's a bit of a balancing act and we don't want to take it lightly . It's funny , but we don't want to take it lightly .

Speaker 5 17:32

Shift work is a very lonely business Can be , and it can really impact severely on your mental health if you don't make a point of getting yourself out . You've been doing this shift now for over six months , right ? So you start to feel really alienated in what you're doing , because it's all about you , rob , and you do what you do , right ? But you're lucky . So you have your Fridays . You make the effort , where people come and go and do whatever on your Champagne Friday , but we don't make the effort and the more tired we get , the less we do , the more we flop on the couch and the less we get out and about .

Speaker 3 18:09

Let's say to Bug B-U-G Bug in Melbourne .

Speaker 11 18:15

Morning .

Speaker 3 18:16

Bug .

Speaker 11 18:16

Hey , how are you going ?

Speaker 3 18:21

I'm actually driving my truck and climbing from the outskirts of Sydney . Sorry , just a bad line there Bug , Exactly . Where are you ?

Speaker 11 18:28

Over , so I'm just driving into Sydney now .

Speaker 5 18:30

Oh , very nice .

Speaker 11 18:35

In New South Wales driving into Sydney . Yeah , and , I live in Melbourne and I'm a truck driver . You said what's in your lunchbox .

Speaker 5 18:42

Yeah , what's in your lunchbox Bug ? Go ahead , tell us what you carry . Do you take it from home or do you stop and buy ?

Speaker 11 18:49

So my lovely wife makes it for me . Yes , so I have a salad roll , which is only the two , so I eat that over like a shift . Yep , I also have kiwi fruit , raspberries and strawberries .

Speaker 5 19:13

Very good , very good .

Speaker 11 19:16

And I also have some protein bars that I also eat , and I have like vegemite this is not this , it's running out . I also have like Vegemite on little sayos , Yep Vegemite for juice , and I use those as a snack .

Speaker 3 19:35

Wow , so we want to do a run with you . I'll tell you what he's all over it . Yeah , really well and truly .

Speaker 5 19:41

How long ? What time would you have left home ? Like , have you ? You've driven through ? Now you take that food that you've got there , but so what do you do ? What time would you have left ? I'm not trying to catch you out here , but what time would you have left with that food and would you eat that over the journey ? That's the question .

Speaker 3 19:58

Yeah , over the what eight hours or so .

Speaker 11 20:01

Yeah , so it's about nine hours to Sydney for me . Yep , and I'll get home while it works at 3.30 . Yep , and I'll stop for half an hour in Karkata . There I'll go in , I'll buy a coffee , yep , and then I'll just eat my solid roll , or half my solid roll when I get to the location I get to tonight , which is probably about half an hour away , I'll just get , I'm sorry , work a little bit more .

Speaker 3 20:37

Yeah , okay , just very quickly , bug , before we let you go . What are you drinking ? How much water ? And then , what do you do when you want to ? Are you and me ? Ah , that's a fantastic point . We've got a very what's that noise ? We've got a very bad noise coming through Over .

Speaker 11 20:55

I'm just increasing speed , mate .

Speaker 3 20:57

Ah , okay .

Speaker 11 20:58

Yeah , sorry about that . So for me to do a whiz , I always stop . And what was the other question ? What are you ?

Speaker 3 21:10

drinking . Yeah , what are you drinking ?

Speaker 11 21:12

So I drink bottled water .

Speaker 3 21:15

Bottled water .

Speaker 5 21:16

I'll tell you what . You'd be the healthiest truck driver I know Well done .

Speaker 3 21:19

Bug , it seems like you're doing pretty well . Oh , very well , very , very well . Bug , we'll let you go , but it's great call . Thank you , keep in touch with the program . Nice to know you're listening pretty well . Oh , very well , very , very well . Bug , we'll let you go , but it's great call . Thank you , keep in touch with the program . Nice to know you're listening all the way to Sydney . Lots of texts We'll get to them . Lots of happy birthdays . Thank you for that .

Speaker 3 21:31

Mike in Werribee , very kind , you're doing a great job . He says Agree with Chris Lighter and brighter is better . And lots of people telling us Chris Norman from Smokey and Suzy Quatro Chris Norman , all those years ago went stumbling in Pete and Paul Melbourne we'll come to you in just a moment . Tiffy in South Morang says G'day Tiff . I don't normally text during this segment , but what about those who are totally blind like myself , who are not shift workers , but I do take melatonin , two milligrams . However , I can't get light into my eye because I've only got a tiny bit of perception . The brain doesn't really know what day and night is . The distinction is , as many can imagine . We suffer more than you do . It's actually hell on earth sometimes

Shift Worker Health and Safety

Speaker 3 22:16

. Very good from Tiffy , important point .

Speaker 5 22:18

It's incredibly important . Sorry , it's incredibly important , but can I just say this they do , and they actually do know whether it's daytime or nighttime , because even though someone's totally blind and their cones and rods are not working , the ganglion cells that actually sense the melanopsin , which is the blue , is another panel in the eye that sees light , which is the reason why they don't remove the eye of someone who's got a damaged eye , unless they absolutely have to now . Because once they discover these cells , these ganglion cells in the eyeball , next to the cones and rods or the optic nerve where it goes through , what it does is it actually does register . So if Tiff was to go outside and was to actually I mean , I don't know what her situation is whether she can open her eyes or close her eyes , her eyes will still see the light . If she knows what time it is and goes outside in the light , her eye will still see the light , even though she can't .

Speaker 3 23:22

Peter . Thanks for waiting in Port Melbourne , Hi , Pete .

Speaker 11 23:25

Good evening guys . I've got something curious . I've been listening on the podcast about the Satarian River , about a person who stays awake between 10 and 4 am for more than two hours . You actually put your body clock in negative territory . How do you deal with that with the guy you're saying for him to stay up more than 12 or 13 or 15 hours when he finishes his day shift routine on a Sunday and starts on Monday on night shift ? Because I've been driving for 10 years on night shift and there's no chance I can stay more than 15 , 17 hours for that shift without closing my eyes on that first Monday shift .

Speaker 5 24:12

No , no . What we've got to do with the circadian rhythm is we have to work as much as we can with being a diurnal creature , which we as humans are right . So what I said to him was , when he finishes his night shift at six , go home and sleep and then be up from about midday until he goes to bed at 9 pm that night and sleeps through that night . You might have missed that , did you miss that ? But there will be a sleep in between .

Speaker 11 25:35

But for the one after the Sunday . When he starts on the Monday , he said to go to sleep and wake up early .

Speaker 13 25:43

Yeah .

Speaker 11 25:45

That Monday when he starts at six and finishes at seven the week , or starts at seven and finishes at six on the Tuesday morning .

Speaker 5 25:52

Yeah , that's correct .

Speaker 11 25:53

He'll be up very early . He'll be up almost 20-plus hours , no you missed what I said about the nap .

Speaker 5 25:59

What you did miss was when I said to him on his first night of night shift , get up early that day . Remember , we're a diurnal creature and our body expects that . But by getting up and being up early on the day , you start your first night of night shift and going through the day , and then what you might have missed was I said , and then have a 90 minute or three hour nap before you go into work that night , just to relieve that sleep pressure , because the sleep pressure will build up and force you to go to sleep , which is , you're right . There is no way would I ever , ever encourage anyone to stay awake for that period of time going through night shift .

Speaker 3 26:36

I hope that helps a little bit , pete , pete . Thank you , greg in Melbourne , good morning to you .

Speaker 13 26:41

G'day mate . How are you ?

Speaker 3 26:42

Greg really well and Roger's here .

Speaker 13 26:46

Yeah , I'm what they call a changeover driver . I go to Tarkata every night , changeover with the truck that's coming down from Sydney and then I come back to Melbourne . Just in the last five years I've really started well . I've really had to start taking an interest in me , diet and looking after myself . I've spent 25 , 30 years in the industry and sort of closing the gate after the horse has bolted really , and the gate after the whole horse is bolted really . But about two years ago I had what they call a fatigue incident where I was diagnosed with sleep apnea . Okay , yes , after the video in the truck caught me dozing off going fogline to fogline in a 60-tonne truck and I have absolutely no memory of it . I have absolutely no memory of me doing that in the truck and it actually made me really sick when I saw the video Right Now .

Speaker 5 27:50

this is where that sleep pressure builds and builds and builds . That adenosine on the brain builds really badly . Now , if I can just give you a little bit of advice around that as well , something that I even learnt just today is 50 milligrams of caffeine overnight , every two hours . Like 50 milligrams because you are in a position where you need to stay awake , right , and it's imperative because your livelihood and everybody else around you driving a 60-ton truck needs to make sure that you are awake , greg . So what we want to do is we want to make sure that caffeine blocks that adenosine receptor to relieve that sleep pressure . So 50 milligrams , which is about a small coffee over a period of two hours , would be ideal for someone like you , because that won't impact on your normal sleep . Then Does that make sense ?

Speaker 13 28:44

Yeah , well , what's actually happened is the company I work for were actually really really good . They helped me out . They took me off the road for about five or six weeks and they really helped me out because I don't drink coffee . My poison's always been energy drinks , which I finally got myself off . But what they've done now is they're giving me the same run , the same departure time every day Perfect . I roll out of the depot at 2 o'clock every day .

Speaker 5 29:13

Name that company . Name that company because their fatigue management is tremendous .

Speaker 13 29:18

Well .

Speaker 5 29:19

Oh , you don't want to I don't know if I'm actually allowed to Okay , don't . I'm really thrilled , absolutely thrilled , to hear that their fatigue management practice goes that far , because I can tell you now a lot of them don't .

Speaker 13 29:36

Well , we actually have four cameras in the truck , and there's one pointing out the front , there's one on each wing mirror pointing backwards and there's one pointing back at the driver .

Speaker 5 29:47

Perfect .

Speaker 13 29:48

And if I start getting a bit naughty or if I'm taking my attention off the road , the truck will actually let me know It'll rattle the seat .

Speaker 3 29:59

So does anybody monitor that physically , Greg ?

Speaker 13 30:03

Yeah , if I have too many , the truck sends an email back to the boss in Sydney and I get a phone call .

Speaker 5 30:12

That's artificial intelligence doing that . That's phenomenal .

Speaker 9 30:14

Yeah , amazing , Incredible yeah .

Speaker 3 30:17

Amazing .

Speaker 13 30:18

The other thing that I've done is I've really taken a special interest in my diet Excellent .

Speaker 3 30:27

And how's your weight , Greg ?

Speaker 13 30:29

What's that ?

Speaker 3 30:30

How is your weight as we speak ?

Speaker 13 30:33

Oh , it's not good . I'm about 190 kilos at the moment . I'm a big bloke .

Speaker 5 30:37

Yeah , but Greg , can I just say this though If you lose 5% of your body weight like 5% , you can work that out . If you say you're about 190 kilos . So if you were to lose just 10 kilos , right , 10 kilos Make a huge difference . For a start , your biological markers improve out of sight just 10% . So why don't you aim for 10 kilos and just take yourself for a walk ? Just go for a walk and drink water and make some really tiny little changes . That will make a huge difference for you . 10% , that's your first goal .

Speaker 13 31:11

Ring me back up after you've done that One thing that I'm doing . I'm doing the man-shaped diet .

Speaker 6 31:17

Fantastic when I can .

Speaker 13 31:18

Yep , and I've also got a personal trainer that comes around twice a week and he helps me out with my diet . My big problem is for about 20 years , everything I ate either came through the window of the car or over the counter at a truck stop .

Speaker 5 31:34

Of course .

Speaker 3 31:34

Yeah , greg , what a great call At the wrong time .

Speaker 5 31:38

Yeah , that's fantastic . And you know what I admire . I really admire that you've called in , you've put it on the table . This is where you're at and I say 10 kilos , just lose 10 kilos , Just do that . That'll be 5% of your body weight . I know it might seem like a lot , but if you were just to monitor what you're eating , increase your protein , it seem like a lot . But if you were just to monitor what you're eating , increase your protein , take a walk around the block , just slow walk around the block and do that for a month . Give me a call back when you've lost your 10 kilos . That's your first goal , because that's going to improve your blood markers out of sight ?

Speaker 3 32:13

It'd be incredible . Greg , great call . Thank you so much for that . Wish you well and stay safe . Roger Sutherland's here A healthy shift . It is Australia overnight . I just said to Jay , who's sitting in for Benny Boy at the other side of the glass , I always get worried when he's sitting there frowning . He's got something he's concerned about , but he's smiling again now . Thank you . That is the first voice you'll hear when you ring through In Werribee , Pat . Good morning , Hello Pat .

Speaker 9 32:39

G'day , I didn't get your name , sorry , my name's Tony and Roger's here as well .

Speaker 9 32:44

Tony and Roger , how do you do ? Thank you for the lovely program . Good on you . Just two quick issues .

Speaker 9 32:55

I used to do night shift graveyard shift up to 2013 for a company for about five years and I used to do security work on large construction projects and 6pm to 6am and then sometimes I used to have to work till 9 or 10am Hardly get a break .

Speaker 9 33:10

I used to have to patrol . There was one complex which I won't mention the name of it , but you'll be able to detect which one it is . It's a large supermarket and the size of the place was 15 acres and three levels of the building and I used to have to patrol that on foot every night . Every 20 minutes going around , I used to have to step over construction equipment , wire , rebar , you name it concrete , broken rocks , concrete and I used to get attacked at night sometimes because at the back of this particular complex over in Ringwood they used to throw metal at me and everything . I got a big gash in my leg one night and my employer , when I mentioned something to him , he was very considerate . He said to me well , if you speak up and say another word , you'll find yourself on the unemployment queue .

Speaker 3 34:06

Was any of this reported to police , for example ?

Speaker 9 34:08

to your knowledge , yeah , yeah , I had the break in at the first shift that I did 11 o'clock exactly . Six blokes came in and did about $80,000 worth of damage . On the one night Stressful , I reported it to my employer , reported it to the police and the police said to me we'll be there , which they did . They came within 10 minutes . But on the occasion where I got attacked , I reported it about midnight and the police attended about quarter to four in the morning , and so are you still in that role .

Speaker 9 34:49

No , I don't blame you . I actually sued the employer .

Speaker 3 34:53

And who came out better .

Speaker 9 34:56

Me because I got just under 10 grand compensation for it . But I left the company , of course , but not on good terms .

Speaker 3 35:05

What I think we can hear , pat , is you're pretty peed off about that whole process .

Speaker 9 35:11

Oh , yes , I am , and I'll tell you what else I got peed off about tonight . I went to take my wife to the airport . She's going overseas on an international flight and we left home early enough and everything . They've changed some traffic conditions at the airport . There's very little signage to indicate where to go and I went to T2 terminal to go to the international section to park and I got a bit lost because this driver wanted to overtake me , believe it or not , and I went to avoid the accident and I ended up in a different lane . So there was no signage as to how to go around and do a U-turn and come back to where I wanted to go .

Speaker 3 35:58

Well , it's a bit convoluted . Have you got anything to add at this stage , Roger ?

Speaker 5 36:01

I don't not , really I don't blame him for leaving his first job . It's a lonely business wandering around a construction site for 12 hours , but somebody's got to do it . Presumably . Well they do , and people have to do it everywhere . There's security out working these new big projects . A lot of places have to have guards overnight , but the health and wellbeing needs to be a lot better of a lot of people in shift work .

Speaker 3 36:25

Yeah , pat , we've got to go , except to say , how are you travelling now ? Are you back in the workforce ?

Speaker 9 36:32

I started my own business . I started my own business recycling pallets actually back in 2013 .

Speaker 3 36:39

And how are you travelling ?

Speaker 9 36:40

with that . Not real good . I'm going bust because too many government constraints and everything else , and rent for commercial property is through the roof , outgoings are through the roof and I can see a lot of other people around me sinking with a sinking boat as well .

Speaker 3 37:01

That's a great call . Thank you for coming on . Just stay strong , stay strong .

Speaker 5 37:06

It'll be a light , Something will happen in front of you at some stage and it'll be the door that you need to walk through .

Speaker 3 37:11

Is there any benefit , says Dan from Geelong , any benefit in wearing nighttime driving glasses and if so , how do they work compared to normal everyday glasses ? That's from Dan in Geelong . We'll think about that . Come back to you , tiff . Again , I often find listening to a book helps me get to sleep . Yeah , perfect , it's a great thing to do . And Julie says Strongly disagree with the walking idea of someone that's around that 190K .

Speaker 5 37:36

Why would you disagree with one of the best exercises ? I'd be interested to hear from Julie if she wants to have a chat , but I don't know why she 190 kilograms . Like it's large , but we don't know how tall he is as well .

Speaker 12 37:49

Yeah , no , exactly right .

Speaker 5 37:51

And we don't know everything about him . But yeah , I take on board what you say , julie . Without any doubt you can be careful , but walking is still the best exercise , just taking it easy .

Speaker 3 38:00

You happy to stay for the next hour .

Speaker 5 38:01

Yeah .

Speaker 3 38:01

Good on you , mate . Roger Sutherland , a healthy shift . This is Australia

Managing Shift Work and Health

Speaker 3 38:09

Overnight with Tony McManus and Roger Roger Sutherland . From a healthy shift . Roger , veteran law enforcement officer , works with shift workers , helping them thrive , survive all of the above . You can have a look at what he does at his website , which is simply called ahealthyshiftcom . We're taking lots of calls . We can open Slather now , 133693 . Anything you want to raise on the program while Roger's here , you're more than welcome to join us . Any benefit wearing nighttime glasses . How do they work ? What do we know about nighttime glasses ? In fact , we should bring Jay in on this one who's not wearing glasses . And I said why aren't you wearing them ? He said , oh , they got stolen . Oh , my goodness , last year . You're in a lot of trouble now , olson . So they got stolen . When did they get ? Share with the great audience Australia overnight . When were they stolen ?

Speaker 3 39:07

They were stolen about a year ago . Yeah , so 12 months , and now you're squinting at everything you do and still stumbling into doors . What damage is that doing to your eyes , I wonder ?

Speaker 8 39:19

I don't know , I know I must ask Roger , because that is , you know , I'm still squinting and obviously it's not good Members of your family say .

Speaker 2 39:28

Dad , when are you going ?

Speaker 5 39:30

to ask me that's right . I look at Zoe and I'm talking to Toby . That's brilliant . That was good . That was very good .

Speaker 3 39:41

Very funny . I'm looking at Zoe but talking to Toby , that's right , I need to get some new glasses . Do they make any comment ? No , they're okay , they're very kind . So it's just your co-host who sort of makes a comment , who takes it upon himself to make an evaluation of your work . Well done , we'll take some more calls . Come and join us , justin . Good morning .

Speaker 15 40:08

Good morning . How are you , Tony ? How ?

Speaker 5 40:10

are you , Roger ? I'm very well , thanks , Justin .

Speaker 15 40:13

Good . Now I've been diagnosed with depression and anxiety . I'm trying to get off my medication , loxate . Now , if I do get off that antidepressant tablet , what would the side effects be for me for driving ?

Speaker 5 40:35

Oh , I couldn't really comment on that because I'm not a doctor . That's a conversation that you really should have with your physician . Whoever your doctor is , I would be having that Because I don't know what other complications there are there as well , and I think your doctor will have all the history , whoever it was that put you on them . I would highly suggest that that conversation is had with your physician . I'm sorry , but I just really don't know enough about you or here to be able to discuss it .

Speaker 3 41:05

Justin , does it feel as if you can have that open conversation with Dr Jack ?

Speaker 15 41:12

Yes , I can . The reason why I ask is because I've got my full driver's license and he asked me are you planning to drive ? And I said yeah and he said well , you know , when you do , let me know . But I'm more than happy to do that . Yeah , I can definitely say that I'm open to do it .

Speaker 5 41:35

Yeah , and the other thing is too why do you want to come off the antidepressants ?

Speaker 15 41:42

because over the last couple of months , I thought I found myself not like feeling down the dumps and that , and the reason , the reason why that I was put on it in the first place was because I was having anxiety attacks and yeah , so that's the reason why I want to get off them is because I'm not feeling depressed anymore . I don't have any anxiety attacks .

Speaker 5 42:03

Can I just say this to you and I'm going to be open and honest and very transparent here I take antidepressants and I've been on antidepressants for over two and a half years and I've had that conversation with my doctor as well . And Tony knows me and knows how up and about and happy and cheerful I am . But I would never come off my antidepressants because I've spoken to my doctor about it and I've said , look , I feel good because I've now stepped away from what the problem was . I also are taking the antidepressants . What's your thoughts about me coming off it ? And he says it'll be six of one , half a dozen of the other helping you . Why would you want to come off them ?

Speaker 3 42:43

I've got no intention of coming off them at all , justin , it's one to go back and have that really very and Gerald Quigley and others would say I think , from our House of Wellness have that conversation with your doctor and let that be managed together as a team and work that through . We point out Roger's not a doctor , I'm not a doctor and so we're not in a position to talk more about it than that . Good on you , justin . Thank you , tiffy , glad you rang through . Good morning .

Speaker 16 43:12

Hello , darling Mackie , Roger the Dodger .

Speaker 5 43:16

Hi Tiff , how are you ?

Speaker 16 43:19

Yeah , I'm still suffering at the moment and Australia , everyone in Europe and , well , just everyone all over the world including those in Sweden .

Speaker 3 43:31

And everyone who loves you and those in Poland .

Speaker 7 43:34

Yeah .

Speaker 16 43:36

Just wanted to wish you a happy birthday , darling Mackie . I would sing , but my voice is still suffering after that damn flu .

Speaker 3 43:44

Well , you sound fantastic , Tiffy .

Speaker 16 43:47

Well , I'm sort of getting better , but I'm trying not to sing , which is really hard because I love singing and it just sucks that I can't right now . So I'm trying to , you know , get better . But you know , just listening to you , even when I couldn't right now . So I'm trying to , you know , get better , but you know , just listening to you , even when I couldn't call or when I didn't have the credit on my phone . But when I couldn't call , or , you know , I'd just listen in occasionally . Or , you know , if it wasn't all that interesting , I would just chuck on a book and , you know , just lie there , close my eyes and let the voice roll over . I know they're crime books , but I like the narrators , like Annie Aldington or Paul Thornley or just some of those . I just love those books , Love them .

Speaker 3 44:31

Nothing wrong with that . It's fantastic . Reading is one of the great hobbies .

Speaker 16 44:35

Even though I can only listen to read .

Speaker 3 44:37

That's fine , but reading , or listening , is one of the great hobbies of mankind on the planet .

Speaker 16 44:42

Exactly , and when I listen or read in my case , I'm even listening while I'm cooking , reading while I'm cooking reading while I'm eating reading , while I'm doing so much , so many other things , I just love reading .

Speaker 5 44:58

That's good , because it's relaxing too for you , tiffany , isn't ? It I know , while you're reading , you're actually focusing on that . It takes the pressures of life away from you as well .

Speaker 16 45:07

I know .

Speaker 5 45:07

Well done Tell me about it .

Speaker 3 45:10

Well , anything else ? Now we're talking about your ability to melatonin . So you're having . How much melatonin are you having ? Two milligrams .

Speaker 16 45:19

Two milligrams yeah .

Speaker 3 45:20

Perfect , and that helps , yep .

Speaker 16 45:22

Well , it does , but what I was sort of talking about was like I can sense the light , but it's not the same way . You can , and yes , I can get outside , but I can't walk . You know like , go for a walk because I don't know where I am .

Speaker 16 45:40

Of course , and I don't have anyone to help me do that . But even if I just go outside and put the rubbish in the bin , I can still sense the light . But even though I can do that , my brain doesn't really know if it's day or night . Like it can sort of hear I can hear the birds of a day and I can hear you know , some creatures of a night and all of that but even with hearing impairment , but I still can't tell if it's night or day .

Speaker 5 46:09

It's crazy . I mean it was really hard .

Speaker 16 46:11

when my phone busted , I didn't even know what time it was . It was even harder .

Speaker 5 46:16

I've always had the discussion . If you had to lose your eyesight or your hearing , which one would you choose ?

Speaker 16 46:21

Well , the problem is I have half of one and none of the other .

Speaker 5 46:25

Oh no , that's no good . But I find it fascinating that you are not aware . You kind of sense it but you're not really aware whether it's day or night . No , but you would see , the thing is with you . If you are eating at your breakfast time and your lunch time and your dinner time , I assume that you would learn what the time is . You know , you would know have a sense , or you would know . How do you know what time it is ? You've got a talking clock .

Speaker 16 46:54

Well , my phone speaks .

Speaker 2 46:56

Yeah , so it's all there .

Speaker 16 46:58

All that technology is about , about their phones , yeah Fantastic . And even though I know what the time is . But you know sometimes like because sorry , I'm trying not to stutter but sometimes you know like if I've got my eyes half shut and like you know things are going on around me , but I'm like I just want to sleep because I might not have had a good night before . I'm in pain or my eyes are killing me .

Speaker 3 47:28

Sif , just before we let you go very quickly , do you get anybody that comes and cares for you that could take you for a walk , particularly in the better weather ?

Speaker 16 47:40

Only once a month , because that's all I can afford . And don't get me started on you know what .

Speaker 12 47:45

Yeah .

Speaker 16 47:46

But when I am out you know I walk a lot and all of that and , like I used to be , on all of those antidepressants and all of those you know psychiatric things , but they made me put on weight so much I had to lose it . I'm actually happy off them because at least I'm not overweight . I've actually lost about 30 kilos .

Speaker 3 48:07

Oh , loving it . Well done you .

Speaker 16 48:09

I actually lost it over six years and I'm I'm doing better , but you know , I feel lonely without my puppies .

Speaker 10 48:19

Yeah .

Speaker 16 48:20

I know , and one of them's still in care and I feel lonely , and you know , without Howie boy . But I have to deal with it , you know Well .

Speaker 3 48:27

Tiffy , it's good to know that you're always there and I'm so pleased that you came on the program this morning . We'll talk again soon . Part of Australia Overnight . Tony McManus is my name . Mcmanus is my name . Nice to have your company wherever you are . 5aa in Adelaide , the Ace Radio Network , 3aw Melbourne Lost and then just didn't bother replacing 133693 Tony in Hamilton .

Speaker 2 48:48

Tony good morning , we're well , thank you .

Speaker 3 48:52

Are you Tony McManus ? That's the one , Tony . Yes , it is Tony Mack here and Roger Sutherland is our special guest in the studio . And we're talking about working overnight and shift workers right around Australia .

Speaker 2 49:05

I used to work a double shift in Mallorca Springs at the Regis Plaza . I used to start at 7 o'clock in the morning and knock off at 10 o'clock at night .

Speaker 3 49:17

And what were you doing , Tony ?

Speaker 2 49:19

Houseman , a houseman In the laundry , in the laundry , working in the laundry , and what sort of work did that ?

Speaker 3 49:25

so you would be putting the sheets and things into the laundry ?

Speaker 2 49:28

I was washing towels and sheets and paste washers and bath mats .

Speaker 3 49:34

Yes and impression sheets , and was that one of the big hotels that you were doing ?

Speaker 2 49:40

Yeah , it was a big hotel in Alice Springs .

Speaker 3 49:43

In Alice Springs . Yeah , gee , and how long did you live in Alice Springs ?

Speaker 2 49:47

I was in Alice Springs for 10 years .

Speaker 3 49:50

Did you enjoy it in the Alice ?

Speaker 2 49:52

Yeah , it was good fun in Alice , it wasn't too bad .

Speaker 3 49:55

Yeah , do you have any friends from your time working in the Alice ?

Speaker 2 50:00

No , I've got lots of friends in the Ellis Springs and Aboriginal friends . I know Rex Granitz .

Speaker 3 50:05

That's right .

Speaker 2 50:06

The traditional landowner of Central Australia . He's an electrician and a movie star , he told me yeah , of course .

Speaker 3 50:12

And what about with that shift work and working those hours ?

Speaker 2 50:15

And the man on the $2 coin ?

Speaker 3 50:17

Yeah , that's the one . What hours ? And the man on the $2 coin yeah , that's the one . What's your thoughts about working very long shift work type hours when you're a little bit younger ? Was that comfortable for you ?

Speaker 2 50:26

Work in the fish and chip shop . We started at 9 o'clock in the morning and finished at 2 o'clock at night .

Speaker 3 50:32

Oh

Shift Workers and Work-Life Balance

Speaker 3 50:32

long day .

Speaker 5 50:33

Goodness me , that's an awful long day , terrible . How did you do that ? What were you doing at 2 o'clock in the morning at a fish shop , cleaning ?

Speaker 2 50:42

Oh yeah , yeah , big job After the busy hours . We're cleaning up and stocking the fridges up .

Speaker 6 50:50

Oh well .

Speaker 2 50:50

I guess Drink fridges .

Speaker 5 50:52

Oh , okay , yeah so you're getting ready for the next day . I should have an up on the next day . Yeah , it's a long day , long shift . I hope you got remunerated Plenty of money .

Speaker 3 51:01

Yeah , good on you , tony , thank you . What a great call . You look after yourself , tony , and thank you for being part of the program . Australia Overnight Kev . Sunshine morning .

Speaker 10 51:11

Morning Mac Pack and Rog the Dodge . I don't know about you blokes , but I've just got a query from you . I've often wondered whether nightglasses might be the first cousin of the beer goggles that you see on the denizens of those King Street nightclub dance floors , the same goggles that they have on at 5 and 6 am time when you're trying to make your way home as a civilised human being .

Speaker 3 51:36

Yeah , I know , and it's funny when you see people walking across the road and you know , to say the least , they're a little tired , they're a little emotional .

Speaker 5 51:45

Yeah , but those goggles are the ones that deceive you , because when the lights come on , you can't work out what you were thinking .

Speaker 10 51:53

Things go better with Coke , and sometimes they go better with beer . Goggles on .

Speaker 3 51:57

Yeah , and back in the day working in nightclubs like Arthur and others , working in nightclubs and discos and things , and not being a drinker , in those days you could see people deteriorate . So the night would start off quietly and sedately and people were kind and polite and joyous and understanding . And then by two , three o'clock in the morning , nobody made any sense . No , none made any sense .

Speaker 5 52:19

No , no , made any sense at all .

Speaker 10 52:22

Hey Tony . Yeah , Artie might have a pair in his hi-fi box .

Speaker 3 52:27

May well , yes , may well . Thank you , John Nanagoon . Morning G'day guys .

Speaker 10 52:35

How you all doing you sound well , johnny , well , we're all good .

Speaker 3 52:38

Are you a shift worker ? Have you been a shift worker ?

Speaker 11 52:42

Well , I've done the last nine years of Uber .

Speaker 3 52:45

Yeah , of course you do . Well , let's drive a shift here and drive a shift .

Speaker 5 52:48

We don't forget our Uber drivers . I always include the Uber drivers when I talk about shift workers as well , because we call they come .

Speaker 11 52:57

And 40 years prior . Throw out 40 years as a pastry cook .

Speaker 5 53:01

Oh wow , You've done it hard then . So what time would you have been starting to be a pastry cook , John ?

Speaker 6 53:09

Oh , normally I was around 2am .

Speaker 5 53:12

To start .

Speaker 8 53:14

Yeah , till whenever .

Speaker 3 53:15

Yeah , and so that was part of your in those days , then , John , presumably part of your apprenticeship , wouldn't it be ?

Speaker 11 53:21

Yeah , I was lucky with my apprenticeship . I didn't start till five .

Speaker 3 53:26

Still pretty early , but even those days at two o'clock wow , what a challenge . And then you'd go right through , you'd be in there cooking , getting things organised , and you'd be out by what time .

Speaker 11 53:37

Well , normally you'd do a nine or ten hour day , five days a week .

Speaker 3 53:42

Let's say it was the nine , so then you'd go back and try and have some rest . Or you're younger and you know you want to kick on a little bit and have a bit of fun as well , presumably .

Speaker 11 53:52

Yeah , I got in the habit of having a few hours when I got home and then a few hours before I went to work .

Speaker 5 53:58

Yeah , that's the way to do it . Absolutely . Tell me something on your two days off . Did you still get up at two ?

Speaker 11 54:06

Your two days off were very confusing . You were trying to go out with your mates or whatever , and it didn't work .

Speaker 5 54:12

That's exactly right . That's what I'm trying to say , you know , because a lot of people I've coached train drivers , and of course they start at 2 or 3 o'clock in the morning as well . We underestimate what the train drivers are actually doing . It's a brutal roster , terrible for them , and they start at that time and the two train drivers that I've coached , both even on the weekends would get up at the same time . They would sleep in different beds to their partners and they would get up at the same time . They would sleep in different beds to their partners and they would get up at the same time . They would write , listen to music , do whatever they're doing , and that's what they would do . And I would imagine that as a pastry chef , you would have to do much the same , but if you wanted to go out , boy , it would cause you a problem .

Speaker 3 54:55

John , do you still get behind with a ?

Speaker 11 54:58

knife in your hand , behind the kitchen bench , I still cook a little bit at home , but I'm lucky because I share a house with a chef , beautiful Happy days .

Speaker 3 55:07

Yeah , happy days . Well , we're all coming to Nga Nga Goon for Christmas .

Speaker 11 55:12

Oh mate anytime .

Speaker 3 55:13

Come to your next birthday , yeah , maybe . Thank you , john , excellent work , thanks , let's go to Milton , hello Julie . Happy birthday , tony . Excellent work , thanks . Let's go to Melton , hello .

Speaker 4 55:20

Julie . Happy birthday , Tony , from our fellow Gemini .

Speaker 3 55:24

Yeah , julie , it's my birthday as well .

Speaker 4 55:26

And the wee scrappy dog and Panda . The Papillon also say happy birthday .

Speaker 3 55:31

Tony , the scrappy dog , is up there on bed and sitting up like Jackie .

Speaker 4 55:36

Oh , absolutely so . Have a great day , thank you . The wee scrappy dog and panda want to take me to Bunnings to maybe buy me a plant today .

Speaker 3 55:45

Oh nice and they love it there .

Speaker 4 55:49

Now , Roger , I've got an odd one for you .

Speaker 5 55:51

Yes .

Speaker 4 55:53

Twelve years ago I got vestibular damage through gentamicin . Are you aware of that as an antibiotic ?

Speaker 5 56:03

No , please explain Okay .

Speaker 4 56:06

So what had happened ? It's an antibiotic commonly used and they used it to save my life Yep , but it damaged my vestibular system and they can normally monitor it because it's only given via IV .

Speaker 3 56:22

Okay , yes .

Speaker 4 56:24

And they didn't notice what was happening to the vestibular system . Now , as a result of that , I had to learn to be able to stand without falling over . It's like having 24-7 vertigo . It never goes away and to the point where I still fall over . Last Monday I was out with the wee scrappy dog and I suffered quite a bad fall Possible torn rotator cuff and everything . So it wasn't great . The wee scrappy dog came back and made sure I was okay , thank goodness . But it's one of those things where I do have to rest my head because inside it's quite chaotic . So I've been in a pain management program which has been invaluable , and every day around 4.35 , I go and have a lay down just to lay still and rest my head .

Speaker 3 57:21

Nothing wrong with that . That's fantastic Julie .

Speaker 4 57:24

Thank you , and I've been sort of a night worker my whole life as well . So has my husband and you . Just learn to manage it . It's difficult when I have a high sensitivity to pain , all pain meds , especially so with a possible torn rotator cuff . That's why I'm still awake because of the pain in my shoulder .

Speaker 5 57:47

I can just imagine . So again .

Speaker 4 57:49

guys , you're keeping me entertained , oh good .

Speaker 5 57:52

Well , that's what we want to do , but can I just ? Ask have you tried meditation ?

Speaker 4 57:56

Yes , oh , absolutely , I do it before bed . The vestibular physiotherapist and the neurologist have all said that because I've martial arts Tai Chi , yoga , pilates I've got a good sense of balance .

Speaker 5 58:15

Yes .

Speaker 4 58:16

So moving forward , because as you get older , your balance can be a bit precarious , so I've got an early start on things and meditation is huge and that's why I go for that bit of a lay down , even an hour , just to rest my head , clear it , meditate it and settle it .

Speaker 3 58:42

Julie , it's great to talk to you . Look after yourself and many happy returns , Julie , on this , your 21st birthday .

Speaker 4 58:51

Not much older than you , Tony .

Speaker 3 58:53

Thank you . Love you lots , Julie . Thanks , Happy birthday . What a great call . And she's got these two beautiful dogs that sleep on the bed Fantastic . Do you ever remember speaking of meditation ? Did you ever have much to do with Great Father Bob in the day ?

Speaker 2 59:09

No , Father Bob .

Speaker 3 59:09

McGuire , you didn't . No , I didn't . What an amazing bloke . But I was just reminded with the meditation , things like prayer . You know the way that prayer was spoken , particularly as a kid . I remember the rhythm of say the rosary .

Speaker 5 59:26

Well , it's giving your brain something to focus on . See , we always talk about with meditation . We talk about the breath because it's free and it's something that we have to do , but well , it's conducive to good living . Of course , breath work .

Speaker 5 59:42

But the breath work is None of us don't . We don't breathe as we should really . Oh no , none of us do . And well , we've talked about the book . We've spoke about James Cleary's book , breath , very , very good book . But the meditation is excellent , calms the mind . A lot of people say they can't do it because their brain is too busy . You've got to persevere with it .

Speaker 3 1:00:04

You absolutely have to . Five minutes , roger Sutherland . Healthy Shift More calls the other side , 133693 . Have a look at the website ahealthyshiftcom and it's great to know that you're there . I'm here , tony McManus . We're at 5AA in Adelaide , 3aw in Melbourne , the Ace Radio Network Australia . Overnight . The next hour we'll be joined by 6PR in Perth . Liam in Newcastle , Smack bang in Newcastle .

Speaker 11 1:00:29

Good morning Liam , good morning Tony Morning .

Speaker 5 1:00:31

Roger Morning Liam .

Speaker 11 1:00:31

I'm actually just back from the roadworks on the M7 , so I'm nearly in Newcastle , but I just wanted to call and ask about the sleep , how you were mentioning sleep and what that was earlier on . I'm a truck driver as well as most of the calls have been tonight and through a few crazy hours and I just wanted to ask about the adenosine that you were mentioning before . Roger , you were saying how that was a build . When you have a buildup of adenosine , that's when you start feeling tired . Is there a particular minimum time that you should be sleeping for once you start to feel that amount of tiredness , or are you just sleeping until you wake ?

Speaker 5 1:01:11

up . What an awesome question . That's such a good question , llewman . I love this . It gives me a chance to explain very clearly . 20 to 25 minutes is enough to flush that adenosine . It's one of the first things that occurs when we actually fall asleep . So once we drift off , one of the first things that happens is that adenosine goes and if you set an alarm for 25 minutes and got back up again , you don't go into that deep sleep stage where you would start to get that sleep inertia . You know , when you wake up after you've had an hour-long nap and you actually feel awful , that's what we call sleep inertia . But if you do the 25 minutes , it's just enough time for your adenosine to flush out and then it gets rid of that what we call sleep homeostat , which is sleep pressure . Great question .

Speaker 11 1:02:06

That's going to be my next question , because that's my problem Once I'm asleep . I usually am a deep sleeper and I usually fall asleep when I'm asleep , but I don't want to sleep for eight

Emergency Pack for Shift Work Nutrition

Speaker 11 1:02:16

hours , I just want to have a few hours rest , or obviously maybe an hour . Now I don't want to sleep for eight hours , I just want to have a few hours rest , or obviously maybe an hour now , I don't know , maybe 25 minutes . Yep , just to you know , top myself up and so I'm not getting fatigued .

Speaker 5 1:02:28

Love it .

Speaker 11 1:02:28

I don't want to sleep too long , so then I'll oversleep .

Speaker 5 1:02:31

Okay , liam , can I just say this to you Up to 25 minutes , or definitely under half an hour . If you can set an alarm and wake which you will , because you won't go into the next stage of sleep 25 minutes then what I would suggest you do if you want to sleep longer always remember we sleep in 90 minute cycles , all right , and wake yourself up at one of those 90 minute cycles . So 90 minutes , or three hours , or four and a half hours for your sleep , and you will wake up between sleep stages because we naturally come almost awake in between the stages . So what I would suggest is up to 25 minutes or in 90-minute cycles .

Speaker 11 1:03:14

Perfect . That's definitely something for me to try now . That's awesome .

Speaker 3 1:03:18

Good on you , Liam . In 10 words or less , what are you driving Over ?

Speaker 11 1:03:23

I'm driving a truck , a caravan , to Newcastle , then back to Melbourne to get an other load , as usual .

Speaker 3 1:03:29

Good on you , Liam . Keep in touch with the program . Nice to know you're there . Thanks , Al . Good on you , mate . Christian , we were talking about you on the road . Where are you now ? Good morning .

Speaker 10 1:03:38

I'm heading to Portland . I'm actually in the truck tonight .

Speaker 5 1:03:42

Excellent , christian , I've been sitting here waiting for you to call . Yeah , I've been sitting here . It's now nearly 20 to 2 , and I've had to sit here and wait until 20 to 2 . I normally go at 1 .

Speaker 10 1:03:52

Yeah , I know . Sorry , mate , I'm sitting in the office these days now .

Speaker 5 1:03:56

I know Tony said that before . I said we want to get Christian on the bite and I said I'm going to sit here until he calls in . Thank God you called in . It might have been a long shift .

Speaker 3 1:04:04

He's just , he's one of those yeah , I think so Just sitting on his clacker all day doing nothing .

Speaker 11 1:04:09

Absolutely .

Speaker 5 1:04:10

Now , what are you doing on the road tonight ?

Speaker 11 1:04:15

Tell us about your lunchbox wasn't really exciting because I was sitting in the office and then a driver decided not to come in , so it's junk food tonight . Oh , christian , you've let the team down .

Speaker 5 1:04:27

Yeah , now why haven't you got an emergency pack that you can take with you ? Why don't you have like a little lunchbox or something that you can have at work ? That isn't a perishable that lasts . That you can have at work . That isn't a perishable that lasts . Cans of tuna , rice , cakes , cheese and crackers . The long-life cheese and crackers , protein bars .

Speaker 9 1:04:50

Why haven't you got that ?

Speaker 11 1:04:51

I have absolutely no idea . You've just put me on the spot .

Speaker 5 1:04:54

I have got you on the spot , haven't I ?

Speaker 11 1:04:57

Yeah .

Speaker 5 1:04:58

I've absolutely stitched you up , Christian , and I'm really sorry , but I'll tell you what . Have an emergency pack for this very reason , because you know , like I said , a can of tuna , you're going to get the protein . You can have it with some rice cakes which are very , very easy for us to digest . You could also have a protein shaker which has got some protein powder in it , because you can get water anywhere . Is that like your man shake sort of product ? Man shake type of thing ? Yep , Give you the nutrients , things like that , or as it's now called person shake , person shake or the they shake .

Speaker 5 1:05:30

Okay , we'll leave that one alone . But , christian , that would be my advice to actually have an emergency pack at work . So if this happens again and you're calling in , you're going to go . Rog , you're not going to believe it . This is what I've done . I've actually got my emergency pack with me and I'm on the road to Portland and I'll go . Good work , christian .

Speaker 11 1:05:50

So what do I get for that , though , if I let you know what I've done ?

Speaker 5 1:05:53

That's up to Tony Matt .

Speaker 11 1:05:55

There's got to be something in there for me to do it In the sky .

Speaker 3 1:06:00

Yeah , good on you . Wish you well Christian Happy days Now get off .

Speaker 5 1:06:04

Thanks for calling . I'll go home now .

Speaker 3 1:06:06

Yeah , thank you . Well done , tanya Mornington . Good morning

Shift Worker Nutrition and Health

Speaker 3 1:06:10

to you .

Speaker 7 1:06:11

Good morning Tony , good morning Roger . How are you both ?

Speaker 5 1:06:14

Very well , tanya Morning to you , mornington to you .

Speaker 7 1:06:18

Mornington morning . Yes , it is Very early it is . Now . I'm sitting here with a friend of mine , brad . I'm here to do a bit of cleaning for him . He's doing some shift work at the moment .

Speaker 7 1:06:30

Good on you , Brad Good morning and I have been explaining to him , roger , how important all the information that you give each week or every fortnight . I should say how important it is and how much sense it actually makes , even though I'm a bit crazy and I'm awake all the time , but that's okay . I mean I'm happy all the time , no problem so where do I send the check ?

Speaker 5 1:06:50

that's exactly what you were meant to say , tanya . I love that . Thank you so much . Um , no , I , I really , really sincerely appreciate that . I appreciate you listening , because I sit here to talk to our shift workers and put that information out , to help them so that they are . I want to teach them to thrive and not just survive , and there's so much that we can do . As much as I love people listening at this time of the night , this is the time people should be sleeping .

Speaker 7 1:07:16

Well , that's right . I mean they should be sleeping , but you know they're not , because they're very interested in what you've got to say to help them possibly start learning how to sleep at night time .

Speaker 5 1:07:24

You're too kind and you are cleaning , so you're shift working Simple .

Speaker 7 1:07:28

Well , yeah , I'm just well , I'm really hanging out , but I'm doing some housework for him because he's been doing shift work .

Speaker 3 1:07:39

He's next to I mean .

Speaker 7 1:07:40

His name is Brad and he needs some information from you some bit of help with all those You're going to put him on , or are you just going to relay the message .

Speaker 5 1:07:44

He's on , he's on he can hear you .

Speaker 3 1:07:44

G'day Tony , g'day Roger . Hi Brad how are you ?

Speaker 5 1:07:45

What sort of work do ?

Speaker 6 1:07:46

you do .

Speaker 5 1:07:46

Brad .

Speaker 6 1:07:48

So I work in after-hours radiology reporting for Australia's hospitals pretty much Wow , that's fantastic .

Speaker 5 1:07:56

So now , this is interesting because , radiologists , whenever we go for a radiology appointment , we turn up for an appointment from 8 o'clock in the morning to 5 o'clock at night , don't we ? Because we make those appointments , sure , but obviously you've got to be there overnight for the emergencies .

Speaker 6 1:08:11

Yes , everything that comes in from Monday to Friday , from after 5pm it goes to the after hours of emergency radiology reporting . So we basically schedule patients to come in through those portals .

Speaker 5 1:08:23

Fantastic . What sort of times are you working now ? I suppose you have a rotating roster where different people are on but what sort of times would you be doing and how often ? So I'm probably doing about at the moment around 70-plus hours a fortnight oh a fortnight , yeah , yeah , nice . And are they mixed shifts or generally night ?

Speaker 6 1:08:45

Normally they're mixed up , but mostly it's night , so the minor shift from the night goes from 12 until about 8.30 in the morning .

Speaker 2 1:08:51

Yep , that's a late start .

Speaker 6 1:08:53

I've been doing afternoon shifts ? Yep , there's weekend shifts as well , which start from anywhere , all-time weekend . So we're 24 hours over the weekends .

Speaker 5 1:08:59

Of course . Now , when you work at 12 to late 30 , how do you structure that for your rest ? Obviously , it's hard work sitting around waiting to start work at midnight . I know I did it tonight . Yeah , it is .

Speaker 6 1:09:16

It's very bad , especially if you do dinner before you go to work sort of thing . Do you know , you've of thing Try and maintain that normal lifestyle and then you sort of get the sleepiness after you've had a meal . You know You've got to make sure you don't get caught out there and have a nap before you go to work , why not ?

Speaker 5 1:09:29

Why wouldn't you have the meal at around about ? See , I can tell you now this is how I would do it . I would have the meal , the family meal , around 6 o'clock or 8 then , and when you're getting that tired , why not just go and lie down and have a sleep for an hour and a half Just ?

Speaker 3 1:09:45

takes the edge off and then get up Just takes the edge off .

Speaker 5 1:09:48

It gets rid of what I mean . The theme of tonight's been getting rid of this sleep pressure . Yeah , so that you are functioning .

Speaker 3 1:09:54

Yep , and what's the travel time into , say , office from home , for example ?

Speaker 6 1:10:00

About 25 minutes . 20 minutes , oh , that's not bad .

Speaker 5 1:10:03

Easy . Yeah , I would be having a nap . I'd have the meal and then I would have a nap , and then I would take an hour and a half as a nap . When I say a nap , I call it a nap . It's not a sleep , but if you set your o'clock you'll wake up a bit . You know , you sort of start to come out of that sleep and when the alarm goes off before you go into the next stage , then you'll be ready to go to work . Have your caffeine . Have your caffeine then to kick yourself on . Yeah , definitely got to have the caffeine . Have something to eat at that stage , just a small snack and then fast from midnight until about six . Have something to eat before you go home into bed . Just get up when you wake up .

Speaker 6 1:10:41

Yeah , so generally , when I'm doing the 12 o'clock start at night , I sort of take my lunch in with me . I'm a chef by trade as well . Yep , oh magnificent .

Speaker 7 1:10:52

Now , when you start at 12, .

Speaker 5 1:10:54

But when do you eat , though , brad ? When do you eat ?

Speaker 6 1:10:57

Like you take it in . Yeah , my lunch break normally goes from about anywhere from four or five in the morning on shift , so I start my meals about that time somewhere . Yeah , perfect , the later the better . Yeah , risotto , rice or pastas or something of the sort I'll take in . Last night I went for an emergency shift and did avocado dip and saladas .

Speaker 5 1:11:18

Avocado dip . What about hummus and vegetable sticks instead ? Hummus is excellent for people to have at night Hummus and just some carrot or celery sticks to have with that . That's a really good alternative to what you've done with your saladas .

Speaker 6 1:11:34

Yeah , yeah yeah , it's not a bad alternative . I do enjoy eating them too , so that's no problem . Perfect , yeah . Yeah , it'll be really much better for you .

Speaker 5 1:11:42

And even a protein shake . Just put some protein powder in a shaker and have that , so you can have that overnight .

Speaker 3 1:11:48

Brad , none of our business , but approximately what age group are you ?

Speaker 6 1:11:52

43 , mate 43 . He's a baby . Yeah , thank you , 43 . Thank you , yeah , thank you .

Speaker 13 1:11:56

Good on you , tanya .

Speaker 3 1:11:57

Excellent , brad , wish you well . I hope you'll call in from time to time , even when Tanya's not there with you .

Speaker 6 1:12:03

Yeah , no , no problem , I do enjoy listening to you , it's quite funny .

Speaker 5 1:12:07

Good on you .

Speaker 6 1:12:08

Hilarious .

Speaker 3 1:12:08

Thank you , Tanya you look after yourself and happy day .

Speaker 7 1:12:12

Same to you , tony . Have a happy morning . Goodbye , roger . Talk to you in two weeks , thank you , see you , bye . She's just gorgeous , and never sleeps .

Speaker 3 1:12:21

No , she's amazing . Christian says happy birthday , Tone . Thank you via text . It's a nice one . Have a bloody good one . He said a really bloody good one have a bloody good one . Have a grouse one .

Speaker 3 1:12:31

Hat in Williamstown . Have a fantastic day and happy birthday . And the Phantom says pastry chefs . We had one earlier . We were talking to a pastry chef . They love listening to Krusty Springfield Favourite track is Son of a Peach Cobbler . Good on you , phantom . We'll do this when we come back . More of your calls you will be next . I'm not sure We'll get one shortly . Joy in Melton will come to you in just a tick . You may have noticed coming up . This Friday the Federal Environment Minister , tanya Plibersek , will be handed a petition to Sydney Beach Cleanup Events , signed by thousands , calling on the government to cut plastic packaging yet again by at least 20% by 2030 . For the marine life , nothing else . Turtles , whales , seabirds , in the air we breathe , the food and water we consume it's all linked to plastic . I reckon one day people will realise just the damage that it's doing to you know what we eat , what we drink , what we microwave and cover all our food with plastic . I just think at some point people go , oh , we shouldn't be doing that .

Speaker 5 1:13:46

I think , as things evolve , particularly around plastics , and as things evolve and people , the incidence of cancers and things that are increasing massively , and we all go , oh , it's a food we're eating . It's a food we're eating , but what we forget is the plastics , it's the light that we're exposed to , we're just doing it all wrong , all sorts of things .

Speaker 3 1:14:05

Joy Melton , good morning .

Speaker 1 1:14:07

Yes , good morning . I'm thinking about that young chap that was on first Any medication . It doesn't matter whether it's a broken wrist or a broken leg or something like that . I advise that he goes and talks to his doctor and gradually the medication gets cut down over a few weeks . I think that's the best idea for him .

Speaker 3 1:14:33

Joy . You sound as if you've been doing this for some years .

Speaker 1 1:14:39

I was born with a disability , so I'm a little bit over 70 at the moment . So I've been on medication most of my life and gradually you don't go cold shoulder with any medication .

Speaker 5 1:14:54

No , no , you don't .

Speaker 3 1:14:56

How's your health these days ?

Speaker 1 1:14:59

Well , it's very good because I was born with a dislocated hip and they didn't find it when I was a baby , because it's so easy these days for the young mums . Yeah , when I went into my teenage years , you start to develop into a younger woman and stuff like that , of course . Yeah , and I had my only child when I was 18 . By the time I was 28 , I had my first hip replacement .

Speaker 3 1:15:27

Because , of damage that was caused presumably because it had not been diagnosed .

Speaker 1 1:15:32

Well , you know , just in the 1950s , mind you . Yeah , because mum would take me to the doctors and say she walks around the couch , she walks around the chairs , but she won't take off . Fat baby , weak ankles , you name it , everything like that . Then I got bronchitis and uh , then the doctors , uh , mum took me to the doctor , naturally with bronchitis , and he said no , there's something more going on there . And that's when they first discovered it .

Speaker 3 1:16:06

How do you sleep these days , then , joy ?

Speaker 1 1:16:09

Very difficult because I've had both hips replaced and I've got two knees replaced at the moment . And I've got two knees replaced at the moment and , of course , at my age I won't be going in for an operation sort of thing , because I've got to give the other people a chance .

Speaker 3 1:16:30

That's true , you've got to look after yourself . Do you have somebody that ?

Speaker 1 1:16:34

helps you ? No , I've got my two cats .

Speaker 3 1:16:37

Oh well , they help , Therapeutic they help . Therapeutic beauties they are , they are .

Speaker 1 1:16:44

I'm just looking at one of them now , and when I want to go to bed I say I'm going to Blankie's now and that's it .

Speaker 3 1:16:49

They know , they know , joy , what a great call . You look after yourself and keep in touch .

Speaker 1 1:16:55

I'm fine , I've been listening to you , it's just that I am a bit shy . You wouldn't guess it . Well , you wouldn't guess .

Speaker 3 1:17:02

You sound like you can . I thought maybe you were going to say you've been a matron for 40 years or something and you've been working . You sound so authoritative and lovely .

Speaker 1 1:17:10

The doctor will say to him or anyone who wants to come off medication is to talk to the doctor and they'll put a new regime in for it . Yep .

Speaker 3 1:17:21

What a great call , joy , you stay safe and we'll talk soon . Bye , nathan , bye-bye . What a fantastic call . We were just talking about the fantastic calls we've had Nearly two hours which is great , fantastic night . Very important issues around sleeping or not sleeping , shift work , healthy eating , non-healthy eating , drinking , all those sorts of things . Yeah loved it , and this is happening right across Australia , day in , day out , absolutely .

Speaker 3 1:17:45

We haven't talked about people that are working in hospitals tonight , or working in supermarkets or doing emergency services . I think it was Emergency Services Day yesterday , wasn't it ?

Speaker 5 1:17:56

It was it was Thank a First Responder . Day yesterday , first Responders , yeah what about these city lights that are on in all these buildings . They're cleaners , and those cleaners are there overnight cleaning the offices .

Speaker 3 1:18:04

They're shift workers as well ? Yeah , they are , and often with an earplug in their ear . Well , that's what you would do with an earplug . Where else would you put it , tony ?

Speaker 5 1:18:14

They make me laugh , the ones with the toothbrushes hanging out of their ears . What are they doing ?

Speaker 3 1:18:18

It's lovely to see you . People need to know more . They can have a look at ahealthyshiftcom . Ahealthyshiftcom . Nice to see you , Roger .

Speaker 5 1:18:24

Thank you , and you too . I'll see you in a month .