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A Healthy Shift | The Shift Work Podcast
It doesn't have to be this way.
Welcome to A Healthy Shift | The Shift Work Podcast, the podcast helping shift workers thrive while changing how organisations think about people working in 24/7 environments.
Hosted by Roger Sutherland, Australia's Night Shift & Sleep Specialist, this is where evidence meets lived experience.
After more than 40 years of working rotating shifts with Victoria Police, followed by years studying nutrition, circadian biology, chrononutrition, sleep, human performance and women's health, Roger is on a mission to challenge the belief that fatigue, poor sleep, burnout and declining health are simply part of working shifts.
Because they don't have to be.
Whether you're a nurse, paramedic, police officer, firefighter, doctor, aged care worker, manufacturing employee, FIFO worker, miner, pilot, flight attendant, truck driver, dispatcher, or anyone working outside the traditional 9-to-5, this podcast will give you practical, evidence-based strategies to help you sleep better, improve your energy, optimise your health and perform at your best.
If you're a leader, manager, People & Culture professional, WHS specialist, or responsible for leading a 24/7 workforce, you'll discover a different way of thinking about shift work—one that focuses on building shift work capability from within through education, leadership and practical systems that create healthier people, stronger teams and higher-performing organisations.
Each episode explores topics including:
• Shift work
• Night shift
• Sleep after night shift
• Circadian rhythm
• Fatigue management
• Shift worker health
• Nutrition for shift workers
• Chrononutrition
• Recovery and resilience
• Women's health and shift work
• Leadership in 24/7 organisations
• Human performance
• Workplace wellbeing
• Fatigue risk management
• Building healthier, safer and higher-performing workplaces
This isn't another podcast offering generic health tips.
It's a podcast about changing the future of shift work.
Because healthier people create stronger teams.
Stronger teams build better organisations.
And it all starts by understanding how to work with biology, not against it.
It doesn't have to be this way.
A Healthy Shift | The Shift Work Podcast
[134] - Your host on Radio 3AW - Australia Overnight - Talk Back Radio 04/04/2024
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Text me what you thought of the show 😊
Ever wondered how night shift workers manage their health and find a semblance of normalcy while the rest of the world sleeps? In our latest episode, my dear friend Roger Sutherland, a law enforcement officer with heaps of wisdom, joins the conversation to unpack the less discussed aspects of nocturnal work life. We celebrate the post-Easter chocolate indulgences (guilt-free, of course!), while also sharing tips that have helped us manage weight and maintain a healthy lifestyle despite our topsy-turvy schedules. Plus, we open the lines to your burning questions about shift work, sleep, and how to thrive when your work clock is out of sync with the sun.
Our night-time narrative takes us on a journey from the quiet streets of Hastings to the lively dairy farms of Colac. We share the hilarious yet eye-opening escapades of Bert, who dodged the law during early morning shifts, and Simon, whose dedication to his cows epitomizes the commitment of those who work while the world is at rest. But it's not all fun and games; we pay respect to the unsung heroes of the night, including emergency veterinary teams, and dive into the pressing concern of sleep anxiety amongst paramedics – with a retired ICU paramedic shedding light on the toll of decades spent on the front lines.
Wrapping up, we take a hard look at the work-family tightrope walked by shift workers like Danny in security and FIFO miners in Australia's rugged West. We share heartfelt stories of balancing the scales of work commitments and home life, alongside the genuine struggles and victories that come with the territory. It's a candid wrap-up of the extreme adjustments and health implications of shift work from those living it every day. And remember, our community conversation continues bi-weekly, with your experiences and insights driving it forward – catch us on our website or slide into our DMs on Instagram @a_healthy_shift.
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Roger Sutherland is Australia's Night Shift & Sleep Specialist and the founder of A Healthy Shift.
After more than 40 years working rotating shifts with Victoria Police, Roger now helps organisations reduce fatigue risk, improve staff wellbeing and build healthier, safer and higher-performing 24/7 workplaces through evidence-based education, circadian biology and the Shift Work Champions™ Framework.
Shift Work Champions™: https://join.ahealthyshift.com/shift-work-capability
Website: https://ahealthyshift.com.au
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/roger-sutherland
Instagram: @a_healthy_shift
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Disclaimer: Roger Sutherland is not a doctor or a medical professional. Always consult a physician before implementing any strategies mentioned in this podcast. Use of this information is strictly at your own risk. Roger Sutherland will not assume any liability for direct or indirect losses or damages that may result from the use of the information contained in this podcast, including but not limited to economic loss, injury, illness, or death.
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Night Shift Workers' Health and Wellbeing
Speaker 2It's gonna be some sweet sounds coming down the night shift .
Speaker 3I bet you're singing proud oh .
Speaker 1I bet you're full of pride At the shift workers . It's gonna be a long night , it's gonna be all right , let's go to the night . Shift workers are here . You can join the program 133693 . Now the reason we mention that is because our great friend Richard Sutherland comes in A healthy shift . Roger , as you know , veteran law enforcement officer almost four decades and going beautifully , Coaches shift workers to thrive , not just survive , which he does a beautiful job . Roger gives shift workers more energy to do the things they love outside of their shift . If you'd like to know more , have a look at thehealthyshiftcomau . Roger , good morning .
Speaker 4Good morning to you , Tony . How are you this morning ? Did you survive the Easter bunny ? Oh , my goodness , did I ever ? How much chocolate did you enjoy ?
Speaker 1Hoppity , hop , hop , hop . Oh , my goodness , did I ever ? How much chocolate did you eat ? Hoppity-hop , hop-hop ? Well , glad you've asked , not that much really . Bits and pieces over the three or four days , but just picky Could I measure it ? I don't know , maybe a cupful .
Speaker 4Yeah , I think it's interesting . A lot of people really panic about Easter and they panic about chocolate . And what do we do the day after Easter and they panic about chocolate ? And what do we do the day after ? Do we head off to the gym and do tons of cardio and just go and just do all of that sort of stuff ? But I just want to run a few interesting stats besides this . So what happens is with chocolate let's just take a Cadbury block of chocolate To put on one kilogram like a lot of people get up the following morning after Easter , they feel guilty .
Speaker 4Or they feel horrendously guilty . After they've gone to bed they've got liquid chocolate running through their veins , yes . And then what they do is they jump on the scale and they realize they've put on a kilogram in one day and they think I've overeaten . So they starve themselves that day , go to the gym , do endless amounts of cardio , but I just wanted to run this volume , you know , to put on one kilogram of body fat . This is milk chocolate , which is the best of course no .
Speaker 1Dark chocolate . No , oh , great proponent of dark chocolate .
Speaker 4I'm a bit of a fan of the Cadbury Creations at the moment , which is the caramel , yeah , wow . I love the Cadbury caramilk creations with all the little bits and pieces in it , but a beautiful piece of dark chocolate .
Speaker 1Jewel Quigley often says it's very good for you .
Speaker 4It's actually pretty good for you , full of antioxidants .
Speaker 1Yeah , that's what he says .
Speaker 4Very full of antioxidants . It's actually quite good for us . Yeah , no doubt about it . Yeah , 308 squares of Cadbury .
Speaker 1Dairy Milk chocolate you'd have to eat to put a kilogram on 308 . But that would presumably depend on body size , would it not ?
Speaker 4No , no , that's applicable to everybody . No , just so you know , in 308 little squares of Cadbury Dairy Milk chocolate equals 7,700 calories , and in one kilogram of body fat there is 7,700 calories . So to put on one kilogram of body fat , you would have to eat that on top of your normal total daily energy expenditure . Now most people like you and I would be eating somewhere in the order of about 2,500 calories a day .
Speaker 4Yeah , so you would be eating 10,000 calories in one day to put on a kilogram of body fat , and that gives you an idea as to how much weight fluctuates for people . With water and it sits in our system , you don't have to panic . We just get back on track the next day , get back to those three regular meals , get back to the walking , hydration , hydration , hydration , which we speak about all the time , and that weight will just fall off again , as in . When I say weight , it's weight , not body fat .
Speaker 1Well , you and I were just talking about weight loss over the you know when the news was on just at the top of the hour there , and I'm pleased to say I've lost four kilos for doing nothing , really probably no booze , and eating better because of the sleep pattern and so on , and I'm sure this applies to anybody who's on shift work . So you're monitoring that and it's a different behaviour . Lost four kilos since I started in this very role and we're only early into April .
Speaker 4Now , first of all , you deserve massive congratulations for that to go into the night shift , which you've not done before . Have you the night shift before ?
Speaker 1Not for a long time and certainly not full-time for a long time , no .
Speaker 4So you've gone into a night shift and you've been running the show now since the beginning of the year , so in three months .
Speaker 4So getting away with it , yes , you're doing exceptionally well to have lost four kilos in that time , and what you have shown is you don't have to do endless amounts of cardio . You don't have to do endless amounts of cardio . You don't have to go on restrictive diets . It's about taking tiny little things , making tiny little tweaks in your life that make a massive difference to you around your body fat loss , because that's what it will be . So well done on that .
Speaker 1It's great , thank you . Are you happy to take some calls ? Those that have a question about shift work and sleeping patterns and all things related to working shift work , wherever you are , by the way , whether you're through 3aw in melbourne , 5aa in adelaide , the ace radio network or certainly , as we know , people listening on the app all around australia and os .
Speaker 4quite often as well we are . I've got people listening on um , on 3awcomau and on the app in europe , everywhere they're everywhere .
Speaker 1133693 lenny . Good morning in Melton . What have you got for us , hi ?
Speaker 5Good morning guys . Yeah , I've worked for what ? 25 years ? In what capacity ? Len In Qantas , catering Qantas , catering Well , for three airlines . Actually , I was driving a high-lift truck and started off with TA , which changed to Australian and then went to Qantas , unfortunately , but anyway , that's the way it goes .
Speaker 4Are you still out there , len at the airport .
Speaker 5No , no , I left there in 2007 and started driving trucks on the road , but no , during the day , not at night .
Speaker 4We forget about our airport workers out there . There's a lot of people out at the airport working shift , work night shift .
Speaker 1Yeah , there are . I mean , and depending on what time you get out there , there's always people there .
Speaker 4Always .
Speaker 1Whether you're there at 4 o'clock in the morning or 2 o'clock the next morning , there's people there . Yep , people in two o'clock the next morning , there's people there .
Speaker 4Yep people there all the time at the airport . It's huge , it's amazing .
Speaker 1Lenny , you're in retirement these days , presumably , yeah exactly .
Speaker 5Yeah , but no , they were great days , especially I started there in what 80 . I hit the tarmac at 84 and I left 2007 with the most beautiful people you ever want to meet , very professional , and that and what I saw happen during COVID , when everyone got the big A and people got out there and baggage was going left , right and centre and this and that and the other . But then of course , the Qantas flight catering got shut down , got taken over by Donata , which is part of Emirates , and they're a good operator .
Speaker 1There was a lot of challenges , Lenny , just briefly , before we let you go . Then all those years doing shift work what were the considerations about family , friends and some sort of a social life for you ? If you were to describe that , what did that look like ?
Speaker 5for you . No , I was mainly working most of the time , probably 20% , 30% of the time I was doing double shifts . Wow , we had small crews . We were , you know , especially in the latter years . Yeah , it was pretty tough , but you know , you just get on with the job and you do it and the money was good .
Speaker 4Len , you mentioned the camaraderie between the people that you were actually working with . I love this , because this is one thing that I really enjoyed about working the night shift was the camaraderie with the people that you're actually working with . I love this because this is one thing that I really enjoyed about working the night shift was the camaraderie with the people that you're actually working with . It's a real team effort , isn't it ?
Speaker 5Out there , especially with TAA , in the beginning , in the 80s , the early 80s , it wasn't like you're going to work with your family .
Speaker 4Yeah , that's right .
Speaker 5We're all just together , but become your family , though . One time we went on strike and we left 24 airplanes on the deck .
Speaker 1Different world . Lenny , do you want to sing the song with us ? Would you like to fly in my beautiful balloon ?
Speaker 5Would you like to fly ? I don't have balloons for me , mate , I've got to have jets . Good on your lips .
Speaker 1Thanks , good to talk to you . We'll take more of your calls . The other side it's a healthy shift , with Roger Sutherland talking about night shift and shift workers generally . 133693 . Come and join us . It's Australia Overnight . Good morning , top of the morning . Look at those texts coming through . We'll get to the chocolate one in just a moment . A really nice one from Steve , town of Walkerville . Morning Steve . He says good to be listening to the overnight program in South Australia while we're still on the previous day across the border . Thank you very much , but I tell you what call in any time , steve . I reckon in your particular role for the South Australian audience , there would be much to discuss from time to time , so feel free to do that . 133693 . Do you want to take a couple more calls , rog ? You betcha , let's go . Rog is here for the shift workers . Gary in Larra Morning Gaz .
Speaker 8Yeah , good morning . I went overseas about three weeks ago , came back about a week ago from Europe and waking up at 3.41, . Two mornings in a row , three mornings in a row . What can I do to break that cycle ? Just waking up early .
Speaker 4Yep , the jet lag has got you because your circadian rhythm is completely desynchronised . Now I talk about this a lot , gary , and what we want to be able to do . You need to be getting up . When you wake up at that three o'clock , you need to be getting up , letting your eyes see that daylight coming up . I know we have to wait until seven o'clock at the moment , but we do have to wait . Get that light and keep going all day with just like 20 to 30 minute naps . Have those 20 to 30 minute nap during the day before three o'clock in the afternoon and then just go back to 30-minute naps , have those 20 to 30-minute nap during the day before 3 o'clock in the afternoon and then just go back to bed at the normal time . But travelling home or coming back to the east , like because you've been to Europe so you travel west , I bet you had no trouble at all going to Europe , but you've had trouble coming back .
Speaker 8Yep , none at all . Went over there , just stayed up the first night slept . I said this is unreal . No jet lag that way .
Speaker 4Coming back . I can't believe it .
Speaker 4No , and it's common . It's like when people travel to the US and Canada as well , from Australia . Because you're travelling east , what you're doing is you're phase shifting your circadian rhythm forward , whereas when you go to Europe you're going back in time , so you're shifting back into your circadian rhythm . So it's always more difficult to come home from Europe or travel east Like anyone coming home from even Bali , perth , anywhere . When you go across you're thrown out by that few hours .
Speaker 4Now our clocks are going back shortly yeah , next weekend , next weekend , next weekend and that's going to cause us all sorts of grief . You know there's a lot of statistics around that too , but I'll talk about that later on . But , gary , that's the key is to get that early light . Now what we've got to do with our circadian rhythm is we have to cash in on those zeke gebers that literally are what are time cues for our circadian clock in our body , and that is light , movement and meal timing . So whatever time you're eating , your clock will be starting to function on that time . So you need to have that breakfast at normal time , that lunch at normal time , dinner at normal time . Get up and get that early light , let your eyes see that the sun's going down and that brings on the melatonin for you at night as well , and you'll get back into sync reasonably quickly .
Speaker 1Yeah , well done , Gary . I hope that helps . Keep in touch and let us know , Gary , how it goes for you . I will do Thanks for that . That was terrific .
Speaker 1Good on you and anybody else that's got a trick up their sleeve . Having travelled overseas on one , two , three or more occasions , how have you managed the idea of getting back into rhythm with the lag 133693 , in your role in a previous life as a law enforcement officer ? It always amazes me when we see things on our news services , hear things on radio , of course about behaviour of those that are running rampant at 2 , 3 , 4 or 5 o'clock in the morning . How do they do that ? Are they sleeping during the day and then deciding to go crazy in the middle of the night ?
Speaker 4Yeah , basically night shifters , and what they do is they and that is why the organisation are executing warrants on those people that you know they can do it at 9 o'clock in the morning because they're out to the and it makes it nice and easy . Was that not always necessarily the case ? No , not generally , because I know through the 80s ,
Night Shifts and Early Mornings
Speaker 4you know we had the crews running around doing armed robberies on Armour Guard vans during the days . You know it was never an issue at night .
Speaker 4they were older or less , so yeah , what we also have to remember , with the youth of today as well , is that they are night owls by their very nature .
Speaker 1They're night owls , it's natural Is that because of the social media world as well , presumably Well , it's just our circadian clock is natural .
Speaker 4It changes from the time we're about 8 to 10 years of age to getting later , and it goes right through until we're around about in our mid-40s and that starts we start to want it to go to bed a bit earlier and getting up and getting on with the day . You know so . But yeah , it's natural for them to be up and running around late at night yeah , jc right .
Speaker 1so talking about cabaret chocolate , you know that the cabaret purple color , created way back 1920 , has its own international colour code . Yes , I think that was documented , wasn't it ? It was , yep , it's a great piece of packaging . Bert in Hastings , say hello to Roger . Good on you , bert . Good morning .
Speaker 3I was working down Cerberus , down at the Navy base there , about 10 minutes drive from where I live , some mornings I had to start at 3 o'clock in the morning . Where I live , some mornings I had to start at 3 o'clock in the morning . Anyway , it was a Saturday evening that I didn't start until 3 o'clock Sunday morning but because of the daylight saving we had to go forward an hour . Anyway , I got up at about 1 o'clock , showered , got dressed and I started heading down to the Navy base . So I left home about half past 1 , and I was driving down to Cerberus and I was only about maybe 5 , 10 minutes away from Cerberus . Anyway , I'm driving along . Anyway , I was pulled over by the police . They said what are you doing on the road this hour of the morning ? This is during COVID .
Speaker 1And I said well , officer , he's about to give me an infringement for being on the road at the wrong time of the morning . Did you have a special pass at that time ?
Speaker 3No , well , it just said that I had a little thing there that said that some mornings I start at 3 o'clock , other times I'd start at 11 o'clock in the morning , other times I'd have days off , or that there'd be even some times where if I didn't have to work that day , then some days I'd work at about 3 o'clock in the afternoon or something . What were you doing , starting at 3 o'clock in the afternoon , or ?
Speaker 4something . What were you doing starting at 3 o'clock in the morning , Bert ?
Speaker 3Yeah , well , I was down the base as a civilian there and I was doing the hospital meals for the patients . I still had to prepare them and everything and what I'd do is I'd prepare them and pack them in the food van in the food box there , take them in the food van and then just deliver them from one kitchen to the hospital for the patients and we had about 20 patients or so , but anyway I was driving along . Anyway , I was pulled over by the police about five minutes from the Navy base . Anyway , they said what are you doing on the road ? This hour in the road .
Speaker 3I said you know , I've got me past here .
Speaker 1Yeah good on you , because I start at three o'clock in the morning . So for how long did you work those shifts , Bert ?
Speaker 3Oh , you know , I'd do maybe three days of early shift . I'd have a day off here or there , and then I'd do three morning shifts where I'd start at about 11 o'clock and I'd have another day or two off , and then I'd sometimes work in the afternoon .
Speaker 1Yeah , and do you feel like you're in some of a routine or is it still work in progress ?
Speaker 3No well , I don't work anymore .
Speaker 1Oh right , you're work anymore I retired in 2021 . Good on you , burton . Great work you've been doing too . That's fantastic . Simon's in Colac for you , roger . Good morning Simon .
Speaker 4Morning to you , Simon . Morning Roger . How are you ? I'm very well , thank you . Thanks for calling in .
Speaker 6Yeah , no worries , been on the dairy farm , we were constantly checking on the cows . Now , when I was on the dairy farm , we were constantly checking on the cows . Now we'd milk them and when they're calving at night you'd have to go over and check them , yep , just before we went to bed and then get up about four hours later , go over and check them .
Speaker 1Yeah , gee . So you're saying a four-hour sleep , Simon .
Speaker 6Go home check them . Go home and have a bit of breakfast . Then go back and milk them .
Speaker 1Yeah , fantastic . So it's interesting you talk about . We don't necessarily think about farmers as shift workers and vets .
Speaker 4What about the vet ? I want to give the vets a shout-out on night
Acknowledging the Unsung Night Shift Heroes
Speaker 4shift as well , because the vets that are on night shift are absolutely doing God's work looking after our fur babies . For us there's a lot of vets and there's a lot of vets that listen to us , like veterinary nurses and things like that that are working overnight . I think it's really important that we acknowledge them as our shift working community as well , because you know we all freak out when something goes wrong with our animals , don't we ?
Speaker 3Yeah , we do , but we all really feel it .
Speaker 4Where do we go ? We go to see the vets , and the vets are there ready and waiting at night to perform surgeries and do that .
Speaker 1Yeah , a dear friend of the Mornington Peninsula got about six or seven horses and they run some programs and one of them got very ill only over the Easter break and had to do a call at 1 , 2 o'clock in the morning . Yep , thank goodness that they're there .
Speaker 4And they're there , yep , let's praise the vets .
Speaker 1So the vets and the vet nurses feel free to be part of the program . 133693 . When we come back , more of your calls , the text messages , we will try and get to as well . 0477 693 693 . As well , 04777 693 693 . Roger Sutherland is here from Night Shift . We'll give you all the details you can have a look at . A healthy shift is the name of the website healthyshiftcom . Come and join us while Roger is here . Shift workers in particular , we're talking about the fireys . There'll be a lot of fireys listening the vets Beautiful , but we won't go there .
Speaker 1We won't go there . We won't go there . We love those fireys If you would like to be part of it . The shift work For people that may be even starting out in shift-type roles that might be 21 , 25 , 28 , 32, .
Speaker 4that can be challenging in terms of social life too , presumably in early family life , People looking to go into shift work as well , people that are listening that are wanting to go into shift work . What to expect ? It's always good .
Speaker 1Now I want to talk to you about vitamin D . It's one of Gerald's great brands . He talks about vitamin D and how important that is , certainly in terms of our sleep , or lack thereof .
Speaker 4Yeah , vitamin D is well , it's actually a hormone , believe it or not , vitamin D and it's very , very difficult for us to get sufficient quantity through our diet , and we generally get it from the sun on our skin . Now , as a rule for people to understand when we are synthesizing vitamin D , here's a simple rule for you , and that is if your shadow is shorter than you are tall , right on the ground . If your shadow is shorter , then you will be synthesizing vitamin D from the sun , but if your shadow is longer than you are tall , then you won't be synthesizing vitamin D from the sun . Now , that's a simple rule .
Speaker 1You ready ? Hang on , I'm writing this down . He's writing it down , he's drawing pictures .
Speaker 4Hang on , so your shadow is shorter . I'm writing this down . He's writing it down . He's drawing pictures . Hang on , so your shadow is shorter . If your shadow is shorter , then you are tall .
Speaker 1I think there's a Paul Simon record here . If your shadow is shorter , then you are tall .
Speaker 4Go on next . Okay , you are synthesizing vitamin D Synthesizing vitamin D , Yep and if your shadow is longer than you are tall , then you are not synthesizing vitamin D . And if your shadow is longer than you are tall , then , you are not synthesizing vitamin D .
Speaker 1This is better than sounds of silence . Oh yeah , this is a great lyric , yep , arthur . So all of that means what ?
Speaker 4Well , we need to be getting vitamin D and we need to supplement . And we're coming into the window now . Has anyone noticed you would notice yourself even in winter how flat you feel . You start to feel really flat and down . That's seasonal effect .
Speaker 1I'm loving it . Really . I've just been 25 degrees OT , where it's about 30 degrees come .
Speaker 4June , July . I hate the winter .
Speaker 2Hate the winter , love it .
Speaker 4Hate the winter . You just love it for the footy , you just want to go and see the deuce . Well , there's that , but you can wear really smart nice crazy warm clothes , but I live in shorts , even in the winter .
Speaker 1Yeah , well , I had this bet with Benny I could hang out in shorts for a little longer than I did , but I capitulated during the week and you were the first one to pick me up on that , benny . You said hello that didn't last long . No , and .
Speaker 2I said you wouldn't last until daylight savings and we're still not at daylight savings .
Speaker 1We're only a week away , though . Oh , less than a week , only a few days now , only because I had a business appointment , so I thought I should wear trousers . That's fair . Arthur West Wing . Good morning .
Speaker 7Good morning Tony , Mack , Benny and , of course , Roger . Now you know I do shift work , done it all before and I agree with you , Tony , I love the winter and can't wait till day . It's beautiful , yeah , it's beautiful . Now a question . I can look after myself . I've been in the martial arts and boxing . That's not the point . I don't smoke or drink , Roger , but certain years ago I was a maritime security at the docks . Ago , I was a maritime security at the docks and I did a 10-hour shift and I know it's clearly illegal . They called me back to continue a six-hour shift because no one else was available to be fired and there was no break in between . So what is your opinion , your expertise , what are the amount of hours that you can do , what you should be doing Maximum before having a break and resuming .
Speaker 4Well , what the research tells us is that any night shift longer than eight hours is actually not good for us . We start to make errors . The research shows quite categorically that we start to make errors and it's like being intoxicated 0.05 with the brain . But in that scenario where you are called back , if you've got the position to have a 20-minute nap 20 to half an hour no longer , but a 20-minute nap that can be sufficient to actually get you through and really , really help you . In fact , I encourage anyone and the nurses don't throw stuff at me or people who are working jobs that don't get to have those breaks where they can nap . But if you get a half-hour break in your job anywhere , enormously beneficial to close your eyes for 20 minutes , 25 minutes , and come back and the research shows very clearly that it's massively beneficial for us Arthur .
Speaker 1it's a great call . You've been doing it for a long time . Artie .
Speaker 7Yeah , over 38 years , I'm still laughing Never lost my licence . I don't eat junk food , I'm still going and I make sure I do have a break . It's like I don't have a parking ticket . That's irrelevant , but I don't have any driving record .
Speaker 1I make sure I have a break . Hang on , hang on . You've got to have some demons somewhere . Everybody has demons there's something in the closet ? Yeah , what are you not telling us , arthur ?
Speaker 7Demon-naked , closet apartment . That's all I'll say Come on , Arthur .
Speaker 1Give us the dirt . There's got to be something there , I bet he's broken plenty of hearts there .
Speaker 4Yeah , that's right , that's what it'll be .
Speaker 7Well , you know , everyone breaks everyone's hearts and you either stabilise or you move on .
Speaker 1Happy days , mate . Good to talk to you , Eddie .
Speaker 7We'll talk later with some petrol prices .
Speaker 1It's interesting . I remember being in the Hotel Australia as a kid and the kitchens in those days for , say lunch , boomer and Grill and those places , the big hotel in Collins Street , so the chefs would be there , apprentices , and there was a lot in those days where they'd be kicking in at say 10 o'clock in the morning , they'd do a lunch shift and that might go to 2.33 o'clock . So they've already done probably five hours . It was what was referred to as a split shift , which I reckon would be really hard , horrendous PTs , all the PTs do that as well .
Speaker 1So what's the distinction of that , and I don't know whether awards have changed . But they then leave the property , go and get their cars , park then behind the hotel on Little Collins Street , wait till the clock ticked over so it was free . After whatever , it was five o'clock just at the end of the causeway there , and then go right through till sometimes 10.30 at night . So they were doing long days from 10 till 10 , maybe with a break in the middle .
Speaker 4Yeah , I don't know what the awards , say , but the break ? You know , if you were looking at it from the perspective of the employer , they would be saying we're giving you an opportunity to have a break , so you've worked three hours or four hours , you've done breakfast . If you have a look at like PTs as well or chefs that do the breakfast , a personal trainer , thank you , yep , sorry , personal trainers they go into the gym and take five or six clients in the morning . Then they're off during the day because no one's around during the day . Then they go back in the evening do another five or six clients . A lot of PTs will go home in between writing programs . They'll have a nap for an hour , an hour and a half . They should be doing 30 minutes or 90 minutes , which is ideal .
Speaker 1But I think you would find that in those industries where people are having split shifts , they would be saying we're affording you a break , so you need to go and rest I know , even doing this job , uh , since early jan now , just before christmas really , but let's say early jan I find I get that sort of first part of the morning from , say , 7 through until 11 30 . So there's , you know , ballpark four , four and a maybe 5 hours sleep , yep , then the afternoon . But during the weekend I can go right through the night and have a good solid 8 or 9 hours Crazy . But during the day can't get a solid 8 hours . Benny , if I've talked this , he can go back and he'll sleep for 12 hours .
Speaker 4I've had a chat with Ben about that too , but look at Ben's age compared to us as well .
Speaker 1Thanks , good on you . Did you hear ?
Speaker 9that , benny , it's an age thing Perks of being young .
Speaker 4It makes a big difference .
Speaker 1So what time would you get home ? When we finish here at 5.30 , you're out of the place by close on 6 o'clock . You're in the cot by what time ? Well , I usually go to the gym first .
Speaker 4That's right . So I probably get to the cot probably around sort of 9 o'clock in the morning .
Speaker 1And then you'll sleep through until 5-ish or more .
Speaker 4That's usually the aim . Try and get to about 5 or 6 .
Speaker 1Except you get up for a you and me if you need to , but then you go straight back to sleep . Yeah , pretty much , which we don't we ?
Speaker 4don't , and we have to get up and have the you and sleep because we're awake .
Speaker 1That's an age thing too , and there's also the dare I say it , I reckon for a lot of people there's the fear of missing out . What are you missing out on during the day when you know you really should be sleeping ? I mean , you don't wake up at three o'clock in the morning as a normal person thinking , oh , am I missing out at something at three o'clock in the morning ? No , that's right , but you do at three o'clock in the afternoon .
Speaker 4Well , it's actually the desynchronised circadian rhythm . That's what is causing us the grief as well . But even though Ben at his age and the younger people can sleep through , we're in a position where they do sleep through really well . We don't , and that becomes the night owl early lark thing .
Speaker 1Thank you , mate . Some advice here . My daughter is starting out nursing shift work . Just expand that word for us , mate . Some advice here . My daughter is starting out nursing shift work . Just expand that word for us . Benny Daughter's starting out nursing shift work . All different times she struggles to fall asleep when she works an early shift , worried she won't hear the alarm . We've all been through that . Any advice ? Thanks , nat . What have you got Rog ?
Speaker 4That's a great text , nat , and thanks very much for leading us into that , because this is so common for shift workers working shift work , going into a day shift . They absolutely freak out , worrying about not being able to get up or not waking up . They can't sleep . They get what's
Effects of Sleep Anxiety on Paramedics
Speaker 4called sleep anxiety . I've got a question for her and Nat ask her when was the last time she actually slept through the alarm ? Because no one sleeps through it , right , and they don't . They can't get to sleep . But it's a psychological game that they're actually they've talked themselves in . They've created what they call sleep anxiety . So what happens is you're going to bed and you're thinking , oh my god , I'm not going to sleep .
Speaker 3You don't sleep , you don't sleep , you don't sleep , you don't sleep , you don't sleep .
Speaker 4Then you wake up at three . You look at the clock and you think , oh , I've only got two hours left . Then you look at the clock and you think now it's an hour and 45 . Now it's an hour and 40 and you're counting it down . But the question that I would ask and I do this with my clients all the time that tell me that they have this problem when was the last time you actually slept through the alarm ? And if you say I have done it , what did they do ? Did they take your birthday off you ? What problems did they actually cause ? If you miss it , you miss it , but you won't . But your anxiety is what is actually causing the problem . What a fantastic response .
Speaker 1That is how many of us actually ever slept through the alarm .
Speaker 4We don't . We don't .
Speaker 1And yet we all live in fear .
Speaker 4We get ourselves worked so much up into it , around it , but we don't sleep through the alarm 133693 .
Speaker 1Keep the tools ticking over , let's go down to Launceston , david morning .
Speaker 10Yes , good evening , gentlemen .
Speaker 1How are we ? Yeah , Roger's here for you . David , go ahead Good morning .
Speaker 10Look , I remember when you started this shift you were having a few issues with the night shift and I've been an intensive care paramedic for 40 years . I'm retired now , but yeah , I know where you're coming from . But the thing is I used to sleep the sleep of dead in between my two night shifts and I don't know how Roger would feel about this . But it's a very strange thing , because paramedics I don't know whether it's the same in Melbourne , but over here we work two 10-hour day shifts , then we work two 14-hour night shifts .
Speaker 4Correct , same here .
Speaker 10Then we have four days off .
Speaker 4That's right . That's the same here , and the Fibregate do that as well , yeah .
Speaker 10So your body is in this constant state of flux , like you're sort of having meals for your two days at a normal time . Then you're coming home after night shift and having a steak on the barbecue and a glass of bread probably Yep , having a steak on the barbecue and a glass of bread , probably Yep . And then suddenly on your four days off , you're back into a normal pattern again . So it's just all over the place .
Speaker 4It's not good . It's not healthy , is it ?
Speaker 2First of all , well done on 40 years , 40 years , 40 years as an intensive care paramedic .
Speaker 4That is absolutely phenomenal and we will thank you for your work that you've done there , because that is amazing and I know what it's like , because you must have . Well , I'm coming up to 40 years in August and it's a long time I think back and so much has changed . But the paramedics I think you've seen a lot of change there , david , in that time , because on that 14-hour shift at midnight you would have been sleeping in the early days when you first started , whereas now our paramedics here are still running around the whole 14 hours and getting overtime as well .
Speaker 10Take our dooners to work with us .
Speaker 1Yep Really .
Speaker 10Yes .
Speaker 1Yeah .
Speaker 10And when I first moved here to Tasmania in 84 from Melbourne , they used to have bunk beds . Oh yeah . Yeah , and we often used to get a good night's sleep in .
Speaker 4Have a bit of a nap . A good friend of mine he's a paramedic , and he used to tell me that it was a requirement in the ambulance service that if you didn't have any jobs on , you must go to bed at midnight or by midnight and they would sleep , and they would sleep solid and they'd get a call and then they would go and do the call . But the paramedics now we saw it on the news during the week you know there's eight , nine , 10 , 12 ambulances ramped at the hospitals and they're literally taking care of patients .
Speaker 1Yeah , well , that's a whole story , we could do another story on that . David , wish you well . Have you settled now in retirement ? Do you feel you've gone back into some sort of normality and does it feel normal or does it still feel a bit foreign ?
Speaker 10Well , you still see them going down the street and think , oh , I wonder what they're going to . And it seems , no matter where I go , some sort of drama happens , like someone has a stroke or a heart attack or something like that in a cafe or something like that . But maybe it's just that I notice and other people don't .
Speaker 4That's what it is . Yep , that's what it is . That's what it is .
Speaker 1So once a first responder , always a first responder , david . Well done and thank you very much . More of your calls the other side , roger's here . Roger Sutherland , talking Night Shift Workers , 133693 . Good morning ,
Night Shift Worker Challenges and Strategies
Speaker 1roger's going to stay with us the other side of the news , coming up top of the hour . Still a fair bit to work through . So keep those calls ticking over . Got some marvellous texts , which we'll get to One in particular from the Phantom , who is our program writer . He says Ben builds budging biceps before Betty buys . Thank you , thank you , phantom . From Ben , david said sometimes you don't sleep properly because of a dream so intense sort of keeps you awake . Any ideas , the linky one , we haven't even touched on dreaming .
Speaker 4Not enough known about dreams . There really isn't , no , there's just not enough known about them at all .
Speaker 1I agree , I had a dream a couple of weeks ago and it had to do with the Porsche Australia , who very kindly allowed me to drive one of their cars for a week as a test drive , that's a dream , that's a dream .
Speaker 1Well , it was happening , but they were apologetic . This is how grandiose it was . They were apologetic because they couldn't provide the model that they said they were going to provide . Oh dear , that's right . So instead of having I don't know what it was a 911 GT3 , for example , I just had to have a normal 911 . And the expectation was that I'd be really cross about that . I'm thinking no , this is fantastic , I get to drive one of these cars for a week . Hashtag first world problems .
Speaker 1First world problems . But when I woke up it was so vivid and the people from Porsche Australia were so understanding of the fact that they couldn't provide the GT3 that they had promised .
Speaker 2Oh dear .
Speaker 1When we come back . Lots of your calls , so keep us going , those that are in the front line . Wherever you are , whatever you're doing , you might be in South Australia . You could be in Tassie . What a great call from Tassie .
Speaker 4Yeah .
Speaker 1You may be anywhere right around Victoria and into southern New South Wales and I might say from next week into Perth , Western Australia .
Speaker 4That's so exciting .
Speaker 1It is it is very exciting for this little Australia Overnight program . I'm Tony McManus . Roger will stay with us . Keep those calls ticking over 133693 , and those texts , 0477693693 . And , benny boy , if people want to get to us by email and I try to respond , which I do every day in my waking hours , I'll be thrilled about this . Overnights at 3awcomau , and each and every couple of weeks we catch up with Roger Sutherland from ahealthyshiftcomau . Have a look at the website A Healthy Shift . Numerous resources and links there to help all and every shift worker put together beautifully by whom Roger .
Speaker 4Put together by me , put together by me , put together by me . I've got a question for you . Please go . Do you think Porsche Spice is nice ? I saw that there from the Phantom . Thank you .
Speaker 1Phantom . Thank you , Phantom , Good work . And another note here , I think it is from presumably , that's Nat doesn't say Hi again . Oh , it is Nat .
Speaker 4It is Nat yes .
Speaker 1Nat says . Thank you for the great response , roger , to my message . In reply to my daughter , has never slept through her alarm Good point , which is what you said . I will put that thought to her and I'm sure it will in fact be very reassuring . What a great help you have both been .
Speaker 4Yeah , it's fantastic and we love that feedback . And thank you for getting back to us , nat , because we don't sleep through the alarm and that's what's creating our anxiety . Once we can get rid of that , we are fine , Tony , you made a mistake here .
Speaker 1You're not just Victoria . Tas , South Australia , New South Wales . Trevor , not too sure what you mean by that Global ? Yes , you're global . Yes , it is Because a lot of people listen on the app right around the world . So , Trevor , thank you for pointing that out . It's very difficult for some of those people to actually reply via the app , so they've got to make a call . I think you asked a question , didn't you ?
Speaker 4I did ask a call as to whether people can call from overseas .
Speaker 1Yeah , well , they can , but I'm not too sure you can do it through the app . Benny , it's got to be done as a call , doesn't it come through the app ? The technological guru , the other side of the glass .
Speaker 2No , but there are a number of international calling apps you can use to call us on , or there's a thing called the phone One way to put it online .
Speaker 1It is Australia Overnight morning . Now . This is Australia Overnight , with Tony McManus , and Roger Sutherland is here talking all things to do with night shift . The shift workers come and join us wherever you are , right throughout Victoria . You could be into southern New South Wales , south Australia you're listening on to the app anywhere around the world 133693 . For those of you that have worked shift work over the years , what were the highs , what were the lows , what were the sort of jobs you were doing ? What were the challenges ? In terms of family life in particular , which is always the great fascination for me , roger the uh . How you blend that in , whether you've got a young family , or then say you get a little older and then they're behind you and it sets up a new uh set of rules and regulations and boundaries for uh . For my , for my , example , would be currently in the shared house . I call it the shared house because there's other people there . It's fantastic , wonderful environment , but there's no little kids .
Speaker 4Yeah , that really helps . It's terribly challenging , but I do think that what we need to do when it comes to shift work is we do need to have those conversations so that everyone understands and I think we need to do that it comes to shift work is we do need to have those conversations so that everyone understands , and I think we need to do that very early on . I know people I mean , you know , I do shift work and it's just me and my partner at home . It's easy , no children at all , um , but you go , go back 35 years ago . That was it . Oh , we were raising kids .
Speaker 4I can tell you quite categorically that my children never spent one day in childcare , ever , at any stage , because we would play tag looking after the kids . I was sacrificing my own health at the time because I would go to work overnight . I'd be finishing at 2 am , 4 am and going to bed for a few hours . Getting up , I'd take the kids to school and then what I would do is go back to bed for a few hours and then I would go and pick the kids up from school and then I'd have to get ready and go back to work that night again . And I did that I couldn't tell you for how long Like I'm lucky now because my children are 29 and 31 , and I hope their kids do the same thing to them . Yeah , because they're both shift workers . What goes around comes around . Well , we can only hope so , because they're both in emergency services .
Speaker 4Are they , and they're both shift workers and they find it very , very challenging . Particularly my daughter finds it challenging at the moment too , because her husband is also a shift worker and they're going through a real struggle at the moment , not having any time together at all . It goes through a cycle like that where you get absolutely no time together at all and then all of a sudden everything seems to line up for a period of time and then so it goes apart again and it's not easy to just go . I'm having leave there , and I'm having leave there as well when you're at different places , and I was talking to you about this before and I wanted to ask you you do five nights here , so you do from midnight to 5.30 , and that's a big interruption to the family , to you and your partner at home . So how do you go about carving out time for your partner ?
Speaker 1Well , family and friends has really always been a priority . But because of the definition this is not about me , by the way , this is about anybody in a similar role you've got to dedicate that time . So there's a few of us that get together on a Friday afternoon . I think we sort of brand it Champagne Friday . It's really champagne , but it's an opportunity to catch up . Seal the week Friday . It's really champagne , but it's an opportunity to catch up Seal the week , seal the week , if you like , and initiate the weekend , by definition , from about 4.30 . So friends , family , come round . It's a social gathering for an hour and a half , maybe prior to dinner . If anyone wants to hang around , we can do a bit of cooking and kick on until 7.30 or 8 . And that's sort of . It's a lovely way to launch into the weekend , I agree , but unless you'd sort of set that up and issued those invitations , it wouldn't happen Right Now .
Speaker 4But you've set this up because what is gold for you ? I'm doing it for me . Absolutely you are , because what it does is it keeps you stimulated . It also keeps those connections going with those people . Shift it also keeps those connections going with those people . Shift work , and particularly night shift , is very isolating and it can really impact . If you didn't have that function on the Friday to look forward to , it could severely impact on your mental health because it would just be you , the partner .
Speaker 1that's it Super important , and so I go around and make sure everybody's got a drink and some food , because I work on the basis that in the event that this radio thing doesn't work out and in all likelihood that's a distinct possibility I can go back into the hospitality industry and work as a waiter again , and I would happily do that . So I'm practicing on a Friday how to serve the drinks , just in case it's a fallback position . That's a great story , it is . Thank you , vern in Moore . Good morning , vern Say hello to Roger .
Speaker 2Good morning Roger .
Speaker 1Good morning Vern .
Speaker 2And Tony and Benny .
Speaker 1Morning .
Speaker 2You did right . You know Shift work wrecked my marriage , but you've got to take your hat off to the truck drivers . Not everybody can be a truck driver . I would make a truck driver's boot lace but I did it for a long time but I kept falling asleep to the point where I felt I was dangerous on the road . I would do carpentry in the daytime , go to bed about 10 o'clock and I'd have to get up at 2 in the morning and drive the truck to Springvale and I neglected my family and I realise that now .
Speaker 1Yep .
Speaker 2And I couldn't apologise anymore , but it did destroy my family relationship .
Speaker 4It does . It really really does cause all sorts of problems to families , which is where we , as shift workers , as people out there , must make time for our family . We do Because they really are suffering while we're just off out and doing work , they're home by themselves , they're missing out on family functions , things like that . So , yeah , well done .
Speaker 1We're just getting a report of an incident around the Berwick area . We're just checking on that and we'll come back to that in just a moment . Danny Port , melbourne . Roger is here . Good morning , roger .
Speaker 9Roger Port , adelaide Port , augusta mate .
Speaker 1Port Augusta . I beg your pardon , Sorry , Port Augusta , Good morning .
Speaker 9Danny , how are you buddy ? Good , good Question for Roger mate . So yeah , I've been doing different types of shift work for over 30 years , everything from commercial fishing to
Challenges of Shift Work Adjustment
Speaker 9chef , to nighttime driver to , yeah , commercial cleaning . And the biggest thing is , especially now doing security , is shifting from if I go from a 12-hour night shift and then have to do an afternoon shift , just finding that sort of enough time , enough rest to be able to get through the next shift . I think that's brutal Because of ?
Speaker 4Sorry , Danny , but you're saying you would work a 12-hour night and then you would have to work an afternoon . From what time would the afternoon be ?
Speaker 93 till 7 . So 3pm till 7 . It's only a short four-hour shift after a 12-hour overnight shift , but yeah it's hard . Or another example is say a six-hour shift , say from midnight to 6 am and then going back in the afternoon to do an afternoon shift with security . I just find it's hard to make that adjustment so quickly the next day . You know what I mean .
Speaker 4You bet it is . It's also very unhealthy .
Speaker 9Yeah , well , I mean , this is sort of the first I've been doing this now since November and this is my first sort of role where it's got that massive broken ship , like I've done you know 16 , 30 , 20-odd years of shipping , for example , where it was a split ship , where you had that sort of three- , four-hour break in between . You know so four hours in the lunch ship and then in the evening shift type thing , but the whole sort of 6 till 6 am , for example . Then come back at 3 in the afternoon for a four-hour shift type thing in the afternoon . That's been my hardest sort of grasp after so many years of just doing nighttime stuff , you know what I mean . Like even commercial fishing , like so we go where the tide goes out , for example . Grassed after so many years of just doing night time stuff , you know what I mean . Like even commercial fishing , like so we go where the tide goes out , for example , and then come back in early hours of the morning , take the catch to the fishmonger and then go to the tide .
Speaker 9Yeah .
Speaker 1And it's cool when you're 24 , 25 , and working as an apprentice or early days of chefing , you sort of manage that as you get just doing that for a little while , you get family connections and other priorities to some degree that you didn't have when you were 25 . That's when the challenges show up .
Speaker 9Especially when you're getting close to 50 , yeah .
Speaker 4Yeah , tell me , can I just ask you a question ? You would work from 12 until 6 and then you would start and you would do what ? Three till seven ? Is that what you said ?
Speaker 9so . So for example , just say on the weekends I was doing a 12 hour shift . Um , security say you start at 6 , 6 pm till 6 am and I do that two nights in a row , and then on the Monday I would have to shift to do an afternoon shift . So like I'd finish work at , say , 6 am Monday morning and then I'd have to be back out again at 3 , to start work at 3 pm till 7 pm that same day type thing .
Speaker 4And then when would you work again after that ?
Speaker 9Oh , it depends . It could be a school job so I'd have to start again after that 7pm finish , for example . My next shift could be an 8pm 8am till 4pm at a school , for example . Oh okay , each day is a different sort of location , you know what I mean . So it's just finding that sort of happy medium where yeah , so I've just sort of been struggling with that for the last couple of well , the first couple of months especially , but I'm sort of getting better at it now the more I get along with it .
Speaker 9But yeah , it's still hard just to go from straight night shift into starting to do day stuff as well as nighttime stuff . You know what ?
Speaker 1I mean Yep , that's the call Any thoughts for Danny ? Danny , thank you for the great call . I mean there'd be people listening who would identify exactly with that situation .
Speaker 4One of the biggest problems that we
Shifting Work Challenges and Rewards
Speaker 4have is the inconsistency of shifts , and this is where I talk about .
Speaker 4my mission in the future is to have 24-7 shift working places stripped down , rebuilt as 24-7 shift working , following the evidence of what it tells us about how to structure shifts , which means forward rotations and regular shifts to work with it . So I think the days of what Danny's doing there just have to go . We can't have people finishing at 6 am , starting again at 3 o'clock and then doing four hours and then back on day shift the next day . Not healthy at all .
Speaker 1Our dear friend in Israel , David , says as a call , not via the app . Ben is absolutely right , Ben's always right . David , you know that you can use the international calling app , like Rebtel , which I often use , says David Viber .
Speaker 4Yeah , viber , that's still a thing .
Speaker 1And YOLA , y-o-l-l-a . For those calling from around the world Australia Overnight good morning . You know , having spent 24 , 25 years in Western Australia , roger , it's a massive , as you well know , a massive fly-in , fly-out culture , massive Into the Kimberley and all around Western Australia , and there's some real challenges around that , as we know , which is documented in terms of family life , young people who go up there and then come home to their home and family in Perth , maybe 10 days or a fortnight later . Then you've got a couple of days to try and settle in , re-engage with family . It's not easy .
Speaker 4Not easy . I've coached a few people who are FIFOs in WA . What is ? Not only is it challenging , a lot of them live in shared houses as well . You know they all like they're almost hot desking beds , aren't they ?
Speaker 4They're almost hot , bedding A little bit A little bit Because they fly out , but it's not only the flight out , and then it's our bus trip to get to the mines and then they're living in an environment which is a long way less than ideal and I've learned there's a really I've learned there's a really bad culture amongst the people . Their alcohol is huge . They have a lot of issues there with the staff and then they must come home back into their family life after being amongst the boys . I bet it's a huge adjustment for their families and things like that as well . So this is where we talk about carving out time to reward our families , because what we've got to remember is husband or wife goes off and goes to the mines , does the mine job , comes home . The other partner's been at home getting the kids to school , getting them home from school and , you know , packing the lunches and getting them ready , and then they come home and I've got a client at the moment that both of them work at the mines and they play tag team .
Speaker 1Like that would be unbelievably hard , like really , really hard , some challenges all around that Just before you fly out the door . You spent a fair bit of time working with the dogs in another life . Yep , that would have brought great joy , predominantly what shepherds .
Speaker 4Yes , always shepherds , yep , always I had shepherds . They've had rock wheelers as well . They tried . A lot of American and European agencies are using Belgian Malinois now as well , but we found that Belgian Malinois were incredibly .
Speaker 1It'd be fair to say , they've got a lot of energy , more so than ships . Oh , much more so , yeah , much more so , to the point of agitation .
Speaker 4No , they're just very hard to control because they are very . They've just got such a massive prey drive and they can't sit still . They just cannot sit still . The Belgian Malamoyer and they're a very , very hard dog . To train , the military , the Air Force , the RAF uses Belgian Malinois , but we use Shepherds predominantly because they're the jack of all trades . They're not the master of one in particular , but they're the jack of all trade . And it was such a rewarding job , such a rewarding job . It was probably a true highlight for me .
Speaker 1Do you fall in love as a trainer ? It's a tool of the trade , so you've got to leave it at that .
Speaker 4Well , I'm not going to say like my family were very close to the dogs . The dogs are home with the families . They switch off and switch on as well . It's very , very important in the environment that they do that , that they can sit at home and be at home . But I can tell you now , once you get up ready to go to work , they were on and they were ready to go and they would cry and sob until they were in the car . Once they were in the car , quite happy to go , but incredibly rewarding Dog and handler combining as a team to bring results for the normal operational areas just enormously rewarding , Having done Dancing with the Stars some years ago .
Speaker 1you fall in love with your dance teacher , your dance partner . I wonder whether you would fall in love Of course you do . That's why I should admit falling in love with a puppy ? Yeah , somebody that you work with and train .
Speaker 4Yeah , yeah , and the devastation is real . I lost a dog with a torsion one night after working and put the dog away in the kennel because the dogs were away in the kennel in the backyard . Put the dog away in the kennel . He was only four years old and suffered a gastric torsion and went to the kennel in the morning and he was blown up and gone and you just feel like you've just failed .
Speaker 1Dismally what happened to them after service .
Speaker 4They retired the handler's homes . Yeah , they retired the handler's homes , but they don't last a long time and generally dog handlers have moved on with another dog as well and it can be a bit of a jealousy thing there as well . Some of them get along , some of them don't . Some dogs are very good with other dogs , some are not . But what we do is we have the dog does , retire into the family unit and spends that time at home with the family as a pet and they love it and live the dream . But they don't last long . Their health deteriorates because they go from a very active working life to doing nothing , to lying in front of the fireplace .
Speaker 1To lying in front of the fire ?
Speaker 4yeah , would they get 10 years service ? Yeah , 10 years generally . Most dogs probably about eight . They don't train them until they're two years old . Somewhere between 18 months and two years old they start training them and they generally get about eight years service out of them before they start to tire . It's very rigorous work , but fun .
Speaker 1The Phantom writes very clever , so quick . One famous dog who moonlighted was Sybil .
Speaker 4Shepard .
Speaker 1Sybil Shepard . That is unbelievable . Well done , phantom . Very , very quick . We haven't spoken about holidays . When it comes to shift work , we might leave for another time . Let's do that . I have to say that it is important , I think , to plan your break , isn't it throughout the year Massively , something to which you can look forward .
Speaker 4We , as shift workers , absolutely must take the breaks that we are due , must , like you know , you've told me that you're taking a break shortly and you must take that break . Like it would be very easy to continue to work through and do that all the time , but as a shift worker , it's very important to give the body a break , give the brain a break , give everything a break , reward your family , go away and spend a little bit of time with the family . We've got some great spots in Victoria that you can just get away and just shut down and reconnect with the earth , reconnect with life again , because it's incredibly lonely .
Speaker 1It can be . It can be also quite joyous , should you choose to make it that way . Healthyshiftcom Ahealthyshiftcom is the website For those of you that have family , friends , loved ones involved in shift work . It's well and truly worth a look , and you cover off a lot of things on the website , roger .
Speaker 4Yeah , I do . I love to . I'm trying to get into workplaces at the moment to run my health and wellbeing seminars . I'm very passionate about standing up in front of groups of people in an organisation . I want to try and get into Royal Melbourne Hospital , and also into the Royal Children's as well , to speak to the nurses and staff there . But I want to do health and wellbeing workshops . So if anybody's listening that's got any connections with health and wellbeing , please reach out . They can get you by the
Promoting Health and Wellbeing Connections
Speaker 4website . They can reach out to me through the website or through Instagram and I'll steer them in the right direction . Instagram at a underscore healthy underscore , shift and a healthyshiftcom . Everything's there . And , of course , we're here every second Wednesday night . Yes , we are Into a Thursday morning .
Speaker 1Well , thursday morning Into a Thursday morning Website , ahealthyshiftcom . Roger , nice to see you , thank you and you too .
Speaker 4Thank you , Tony .
Speaker 1Okay , mate , we'll have some more calls . The other side of this . Anything you want to raise on the program , feel free to join us . It's Australia Overnight .