Thriving in Shift Work

Speaker 1 0:00

I think definitely before I was more into the gym and eating well , that I really struggled with coming on and off night shifts , but definitely since exercise and nutrition have been more a part of my life , it's made it easier .

Speaker 2 0:23

Shift work can be brutal , but it doesn't have to be . Welcome to a healthy shift . My name is Roger Sutherland , certified nutritionist , veteran law enforcement officer and 24-7 shift worker for almost four decades . Through this podcast , I aim to educate shift workers using evidence-based methods to not only survive the rigors of shift work , but thrive . My goal is to empower shift workers to improve their health and well-being so they have more energy to do the things they love . Enjoy today's show . Welcome to another episode of a healthy shift podcast , and this is the podcast where I bring you evidence-based strategies with what the latest evidence tells us to help you thrive and not just survive with shift work .

Speaker 2 1:13

Today , it is my absolute pleasure to bring on to the podcast Hailey Jamison . Now Hailey is an ICU nurse , she does 24-7 shift work and she's also now gone into personal training and nutrition coaching in the online space as well . And her passion is to help women break up with yo-yo dieting and to actually fall in love with fitness . And this is really important because it's all well and good , and I know a lot of people have reservations . Oh , roger , you're a male , you don't know what you're talking about and I understand your perspective on that , but Hailey does . Hailey is female . Hailey gets it from the woman's perspective . Hailey is also an ICU nurse , so she knows , if you're a nurse , what you're dealing with as a female . So let's learn all about Hailey where she's come from , what impact shift workers had on her , what she's learned all about shift work as a female and how she can help you . So let's get on with the show . Welcome to the show , hailey . How are you ?

Speaker 1 2:21

Good , thank you . How are you ?

Speaker 2 2:23

I am very , very well . Ladies and gentlemen , as I said in my introduction , I found another kindred spirit here . I've got a young lady here who is one of those living angels on earth which I speak about often . She's a ICU nurse , a 24-7 shift worker , and is a health and well-being coach . She's also a PT and a nutritionist as well . She is a hamburger with a lot . I'm so excited to have Hailey on the show today because she will come at you with a position of empathy , but I want you to hear all about her whole story in relation to how she got to where she got to and why she's doing what she's doing now . So , hailey , tell me a bit about yourself . What do you do for shift work and why do you actually do that ?

Speaker 1 3:09

So my name is Hailey Jamison , I'm 27 , from the Mid-North Coast of New South Wales . I work as an ICU nurse . I initially got into nursing because I have cousins that are nurses and I used to love hearing all their crazy stories about work all the time and I just thought that that sounded really cool . I was pretty fortunate to get a new grad position at my local hospital and the first six months was in the acute medical ward and then the next six months was in ICU , where I've been pretty much ever since . I have worked in a few other areas like emergency and cardiology , but ICU is definitely my home . I just love the challenge of it , the like critical care sort of aspect . No two days are the same and no two patients are the same , so it's always a bit of a challenge .

Speaker 2 3:57

That's so true , isn't it ? When you turn up to work on the day for the start of your next shift , you really don't know what's come in like overnight , or come in during the day or anything like that , and I'm sure that in your position , it must be something that you go . Oh , my god , I've not seen one of these before , or I've not heard of this before , and I've got a bit of a confession to my . I'm actually plowing through Grey's Anatomy at the moment as a bit of a confession , and I'm really enjoying Grey's Anatomy because , I mean , we're revisiting it . Melissa's made me sit and watch Grey's Anatomy and I must admit I'm hooked on it . Now we're sort of nearly halfway through the third season and , of course , mcdreamy is McDreamy , and I'm sure you've got a McDreamy at your own hospital as well , I've no doubt . Well , anyway , let's not go down that line .

Speaker 2 4:43

But the one thing that I learned from that by watching it and also talking to clients that I have as nurses is that every day is very , very dynamic , isn't it ? It's very different , and sometimes , just when you think you've seen everything , something comes in that you think , oh , my god , you've got to be kidding . I've never seen that ? Yeah , exactly From what you've just told me . You actually are doing nursing in an ICU . You were in acute care before that , which was like six months before that , so I take it from there . You've been doing shift work for about seven and a half years , is that right ? Yeah , it's a total baptism of five for you , because you've gone from acute medical into ICU so you've gone straight into the top shelf . So you really do get what it's like to work 24-7 shift work and get absolutely slaughtered .

Speaker 1 5:27

Yeah , exactly . I don't think anyone ever understands what shift work is actually like until you're living in the deep depths of it .

Speaker 2 5:35

Oh , that's exactly right . No one understands that . You can study it , you can live with someone , you can do anything . It's not until you actually know what that brain fog , fatigue , the digestive issues , the poor sleep , the very , very short wick is like , does it right ? So before you started , what were you doing before you actually started nursing ? Like you're what , 27 years old ? You've been doing shift work since you were 19 , 19 and a half . So what were you doing before that ?

Speaker 1 6:02

So I went straight from high school into uni and then , when I was at uni , I was working in a pharmacy just to help pay the way . Yeah , of course , as soon as I graduated , went straight into nursing .

Speaker 2 6:14

And of course , you could almost say that being in uni is like starting shift work anyway , isn't it ? Yeah , definitely Bit of a nocturnal lifestyle , and I want to talk about at your age because you're still in that stage where you're a night owl type person , so you probably thrive more at night than you do in the morning . I bet you hate day shifts , but you'll love the Arvo shifts .

Speaker 1 6:34

So we do 12 hour shifts in our unit , so we only do like 7 am till 7 30 pm or 7 pm till 7 30 am .

Speaker 2 6:42

Oh , my goodness .

Speaker 1 6:45

I don't really prefer either one . To be honest , works , work . And while I'm there , I'm there .

Speaker 2 6:50

Okay , they're still long , aren't they ? And , in all honesty , you wouldn't know whether it was daytime or nighttime most of the time anyway , would you ? You just under fluorescent lights in an ICU unit ?

Speaker 1 6:59

yeah , exactly right , you wouldn't care , absolutely not yeah , yeah like oh , the sun's out .

Speaker 2 7:05

You sort of have to go to work or come home from work to work out whether you're going or whether you're coming . I'll give you a little secret that you can actually use for this one Haley Put a clear lid on your lunchbox so that you know whether you're going or coming , because if your lunch is gone , you're going home . Oh no , that's just a dad joking , it's really poor . Okay then , so you've been doing shift work for seven and a half years . Were you prepared for what shift work actually brought into your life , haley ?

Speaker 1 7:30

Yes and no . As I said , I have cousins that are also nurses , so just hearing from them , you sort of do get a little bit prepared from , you know , listening to other people's experience . But , as I said , absolutely not you don't know what it's like until you're actually experiencing it .

Speaker 2 7:46

Oh yeah , that's right . You cannot possibly begin to imagine , when you started , how much education around shift work and how to go about shift work and diet , nutrition and exercise did they give you in that course .

Speaker 1 7:56

Absolutely none .

Speaker 2 7:57

Yeah , none at all . Even though it is a health risk , right ? Even though you are sacrificing your health for the health of others , they give you zero education on how to go about it . That's why what you and I are doing right now is so important for our community . Do you agree with that ?

Speaker 1 8:15

Yep definitely .

Speaker 2 8:16

Yeah , so how did you ?

Speaker 1 8:19

learn . Initially we learned just from fellow colleagues . Like you get paired up with a mentor when you first start your new ground position , so just learning from the nurse that I was paired with . But I don't really think anyone's ever been taught how to optimally navigate shift work , so you're just learning from the cycle that no one's really ever learned properly from , if that makes sense .

Speaker 2 8:43

I mean , you've been doing it for seven years and I've been doing it for 39 , but there's no education around it . I know , even when I started , there was literally no education . So we just learned from the experience , thinking that they were experienced like they're good at their job and they knew how to do bits and pieces and things like that . But we figured that they knew how to go about doing shift work as well . But the truth is they didn't . And then you start to learn that everybody is different , don't you ? Everybody goes about it differently .

Speaker 1 9:09

Yeah , definitely , and what suits you might not suit me , and that is exactly right .

Speaker 2 9:14

It's very , very different . So how much has shift work impacted on you and your health ? So talk about from the time , because you started at 19 and a half , so young , healthy , doing all the right things . Come out of uni , start in nursing . Were you playing sport ?

Speaker 1 9:28

So I grew up playing every sport that was on offer at school yeah , pretty much just to get a day off school , yeah , but I really loved playing netball and I had injuries when I was younger from netball , of course . But when I first started working as a nurse , you know , I was probably a bit underweight , had

Impact of Shift Work on Health

Speaker 1 10:42

a bit of an eating disorder from like stemming when I was in high school and in about six or seven years of nursing I gained about 20 kilos 20 kilos . Most of that was probably needed weight because , as I said , I was quite underweight , but it's definitely quite a shock to the system . Looking back on that , in 2020 I actually injured my knee again when I was at work . So I had about eight or nine months off work and had another surgery with that and my physio actually recommended me to go to the gym and to hire a PT and to just strengthen up my knee and just for , like you know , overall movement and general health and well-being .

Speaker 1 11:27

I mean he also said that it probably helped my mental health out quite a lot because just dealing with work cover and the insurance company , that was definitely taking a massive toll on my mental health and shift work in general , you know , lack of sleep , lack of adequate nutrition . You know not many people , I would say , probably move as much as what we should be doing , like getting regular exercise or anything . Just because of how taxing shift work is on the body , my mental health wasn't great to begin with . So , yeah , definitely prioritizing exercise and nutrition has very much helped it does .

Speaker 2 12:07

Now there's a few points that I want to back over here highly in relation to what you've just said . All right , so yeah , now I just want to be clear . So you put on 20 kilos of weight . Now You're saying it was much needed weight , but it wasn't planned to put it on , was it ?

Speaker 1 12:21

No , definitely not right .

Speaker 2 12:22

So this is a point like , even though you said I look , I was underweight because of all the exercise I was doing and you know you now you can now look back in hindsight you weren't fueling yourself properly for the exercise that you were doing , so you were underweight . So , in a way , like putting the weight on through shift work , you're thinking , oh , this is good , because I needed this , you know , because I was too skinny and you know skinny fat , so to speak . So what we want to do is I want to talk about that , because what were you doing differently that made you put on weight ?

Speaker 1 12:51

Looking back , I think it was poor diet choices . Like I was eating a lot of highly processed food , a lot of takeaway , purely just for convenience .

Speaker 2 13:02

That's common , isn't it ? Definitely and what about the food timing ? Did you find that you were just grabbing a handful of chocolate at the nurses station and things like that ?

Speaker 1 13:11

Yeah , definitely , and I think learning a lot more about the circadian rhythm , like when you're supposed to be eating and how . If you eat outside of those times , like on night shift , when we're awake when we Shouldn't be and you're eating all through the night , that can really Disregulate things as well now you're learning from people who have been doing it for a long , long time and you know , and you've learned that Everybody biologically is very , very different .

Speaker 2 13:37

You know , I'm sure in the nursing fraternity you've got Well , I'm just gonna call them genetically blessed bitches that it doesn't matter what they eat or when they just look absolutely Amazing , those ones . You know the ones I'm talking about , don't you ? Yeah , lucky you . You know you've been doing it for seven years and you work in ICU and you would see the girls and the guys coming in and Over the journey they start to put on weight and they're getting frustrated and they can't understand why they're putting on weight . You know it's hard for you to look at that to go . You know what . I know what you're doing wrong . I really want to be able to help you .

Speaker 2 14:12

But when you started you learned from people who you have your dinner at three o'clock in the morning because that's you know , you need that fuel and you need to be able to eat and oh my god , I'm hungry . I haven't had a chance . I'll just go to the snack machine and grab a packet of chips or ramas bar and Eating that . You know a handful of lollies here and it all adds up , doesn't it ?

Speaker 1 14:30

Yeah , definitely .

Speaker 2 14:32

Yeah , not only does it add up Fat , wise , but how else does it add up Haley ? Like your overall health really suffers , doesn't it ?

Speaker 1 14:39

Yeah , because you're not providing your body With the nutrients that it actually needs . Like if you're constantly just grabbing chips and chocolate and Maccas and whatever else is convenient at the time , you're not getting all of your micronutrients , like your vitamins and minerals that you do really need . And Eating poor food , while that might make you feel good at the time , in the long term it's not going to do very well with your mental health as well .

Speaker 2 15:06

That's right , because of the gut brain axis . We tend to find that people , when they've got poor gut health and we do , because we've got a gut microbiota and if we're not feeding it with all of those , you know , the really good Prebiotics to feed the probiotics in our gut we do tend to find that what has a significant impact on our gut . But it goes to the brain as well , and if our brain is really suffering , like as in through stress or burnout or something like that , it impacts severely on our gas as well , doesn't it ?

Speaker 1 15:34

Yeah , definitely , and something I learned recently . So I have a long history of gut health problems , like I'm completely dairy intolerant and pretty well gluten intolerant as well , and that took quite some time to actually work that out along with Dieticians and gastroenterologists and all that sort of jazz . But something I learned recently was that if your Gut is constantly inflamed , like if you've got IBS , and you're constantly eating foods that trigger that , and your guts just bloated and cramping and Carrying on and not happy , you actually can't absorb Nutrients properly . That's right . So it doesn't matter what food that you're eating .

Speaker 2 16:18

A lot of it won't be absorbed , exactly because of the inflammation in the system , it doesn't absorb properly into your system . So , whereas you could be having your vitamin micronutrient enriched smoothie , it could almost literally be going through your system and not being absorbed because of the inflammation in your system . I think also nurses in particular and , let's be honest , majority of female there aren't a lot of males as well now , but majority of female men don't suffer as much as females do . There's no doubt about that and the research is quite Supportive of that , that women suffer more than men , and there's a biological reason for that . But do you find that the girls that you're working with ? They just put their issues down to I've got IBS or I'm gluten intolerant or I'm lactose intolerant or I'm fructose intolerant , when in fact it's actually the disruption to the circadian rhythm causing them more problems .

Speaker 1 17:11

Yeah , definitely .

Speaker 2 17:12

I think if a lot of people were to Understand the significant impact that the circadian rhythm is actually having on your digestive tract and you would rectify that as much as you can . I talk about this a lot with clients along the lines of that . I Know we have to work night shift and it's a complete desynchronization of our circadian rhythm . I totally understand that . So when you're on a 12 hour night shift and you're working your 7 pm To 7 30 am , it's not optimal . It's a long way from optimal . But what we've got to do is we've got to be optimal in the way we treat our body During that actual time and be patient with it and tolerant with it .

Speaker 2 17:53

But what we need to do is , when we have those two nights and night shift , we don't want to be staying in that sequence for the next three or four days that we've got off . We want to make sure that we're looking after ourselves getting up , getting that food in at the regular time , getting that movement . Are you one of those lucky people ? It doesn't seem to impact much on your health ? Or you can't remember , because you pretty much , or you can remember now , when you're young , but all you can really remember now is that nutrition and exercise . You know you don't seem to suffer , but that's probably because of the nutrition and exercise .

Speaker 1 18:22

Yeah , I think Definitely before I was more into the gym and eating Well , that I really struggled with coming on and off night shifts , but Definitely , since exercise and nutrition have been more a part of my life , it's made it easier . I am someone , though , that has to wake up in the middle of the day to eat lunch , because I will wake up Ravenously hungry . Doesn't matter that I've had breakfast as soon as I've gotten home , but yes , that's interesting .

Speaker 2 18:52

So you'll , if you wake up , you'll be hungry and you'll eat in the middle of the day when you're on night shift . Now , folks , just from my perspective , so that people understand that that's actually not a bad thing , right ? Because you're eating breakfast , lunch and dinner at the time that your circadian rhythm is expecting it . And the reason why you're waking up and you are ravenous is because your circadian rhythm is expecting food at that time . So it literally is preparing your body for it . And that's why I say to shift workers all the time hey guys , what I want you to do is I want you to eat at breakfast , lunch and dinner time because your circadian rhythm , as it rolls , you've ever noticed that you're hungry at breakfast time , so you eat breakfast , and if you're hungry at lunch time , you eat lunch , and if you're hungry at dinner time , you eat dinner , or you tend to find that you get hungry around that time . So what happens is people Should eat at that time because that's their body , their circadian rhythm .

Speaker 2 19:48

The organs are actually preparing for that food to come in . So when it doesn't come , it goes . Oh , no food , okay . Well , it keeps sending those signals and that's probably why some people wake up in all honesty as well when they're on night shift . But the other thing is as well when we eat at the times when it's not that normal breakfast , lunch and dinner Because our body is not prepared and ready for that food , what actually happens is we don't digest it . We don't digest it properly because our body is very , very inefficient at digesting food , particularly outside of the biological day . So in the biological night it really suffers . And you know yourself that if you tend to eat food , particular foods , particularly highly processed carbs , fats , which we do our chips , chocolates , lollies , karen's cake at the nurses station and things like that we do tend to find that that's where the gas and the bloating comes from , doesn't it ?

Speaker 1 20:42

Yeah , definitely , and I noticed that I digest things a lot slower when I'm eating all night Compared to . I've now tried to stop eating at midnight and I generally just bring popcorn to work now , because it's something I find I can digest really easily and I can eat a Lot of it for a lot less calories . Not that I should be focusing solely on that , but no , no , but you've got an understanding .

Speaker 2 21:05

That that's what it's about , isn't it ? It gives you a bit of bulk , gives you a bit of fiber as well . It's a bit of savory , or you can now get them with salted caramel goddamn chocolate on it too , which is just Putrid who does that to popcorn , like seriously , then , anyway , give me the butter in the soul .

Speaker 2 21:21

Yeah , that's right , bit of butter and salt . But popcorn is a really good option just to actually put into your system at that time , because it does provide you a bit of Foolsness , it gives you a bit of fiber , it gives you something to just munch on , keep yourself occupied , and it does digest really really well and feeds that good gut Micro provider without causing it any problem as well . Now I just want to ask you , in relation to being a female being , is how you told me that you're one of these genetically Blessed bitches that we all talk about , that everybody hates but anyway . So as a female shift work , it's really tough on you , biologically as well . Are you prepared to talk about how it impacted on you ? Did it impact on your cycle in any way whatsoever ? Like there's a regular , is it non regular ? Have you found that it's impacted , depending on your rotations ?

Speaker 1 22:05

I am on the pill , so I Haven't seen anything with that , but I've definitely heard of colleagues that have had experiences with dysregulation and you know , are there really short cycles or really long cycles ? And yeah , it's not good for us .

Speaker 2 22:20

No , it does , and it causes one of the biggest problems that we have with shift work on the female because , unlike well , males don't have an infradient rhythm , which females have an infradient rhythm , which is their menstrual cycle , which does really rely on a synchronized circadian rhythm to function optimally . And this is why females have massive problems when it comes to doing night shift in particular , because of the desynchronization with the circadian rhythm . It doesn't actually line up and the infradient rhythm is confused as well . And this is why some women can have 20 21 day cycles , or they can go even on further and have 36 to 45 day cycles as well . And that answers that for your ladies . It's not that there's something wrong with you . It's actually that your infradient rhythm literally can't connect properly with your circadian rhythm and it's impacting on it greatly , and that can cause people a lot of problems . So , and also , if no , the fact that you're on a pill , you don't have a cycle in any way at all , so therefore you don't know . So when you do menstruate , it's just a withdrawal bleed , so it's not actually a proper cycle . So , yeah , that can cause you all sorts of problems .

Speaker 2 23:29

It's also important to note why we're here for the people that haven't heard me bang on about this over and over and over again , that are listening to it from your side , for nurses , that females , biologically , are extremely difficult . They are difficult . I've got books on female . Have you ever look at the books behind me here ? All those books , they are difficult , my God . The book of men is like a little golden book , and the book of women ? You'd argue that . But anyway , folks , I'm actually joking . Please , I don't want any at me's in relation to that , I absolutely love my ladies that I coach and I want to read all those books so that I learn more about it . Did I get out of that one , haley ? Did I get out of that , you reckon I ?

Speaker 1 24:07

think you're slowly digging your way out , slowly , slowly .

Speaker 2 24:11

Women biologically very different because their stomachs are less acidic and their stomach empties a lot slower than a male

Nutrition and Digestion for Night Shifts

Speaker 2 24:18

as well , and their digestive track is longer and , in fact , it takes females on average 14 hours longer to digest food than it does a male .

Speaker 2 24:29

Now , if you think about it and I want you to think about all your cohort of nurses , the females this is why they suffer from gas and bloating , because they eat these highly processed food overnight , not providing themselves good food . They're eating highly processed foods because it's taking longer to go through the digestive track . In that 14 hours longer . It also causes gas , bloating , digestive issues and if you are in the luteal phase of your menstrual cycle as well , you've got highly agitated sexual organs occupying the same space as a highly agitated digestive track , and that answers a lot of questions in relation to why you end up with a lot of pain through that time of the month as well , and it's important .

Speaker 2 25:14

So can you just tell us ? You obviously have learned what to eat and when and how to go about it , haley , how do you go about it ? So let's give some people some pragmatic approaches of how to go about eating and what to eat and when over a , let's say , a night shift , because I think night shift is definitely the biggest impact . So how do you go about it ?

Speaker 1 25:34

So I always have dinner before I go to work . I'm pretty good with that . I'll eat quite a decent amount of protein make sure I get some good veggies in there and some carbs , whether it's potato or rice or pasta or what have you and then , going to work , I'll take generally my popcorn and hopefully a piece of fruit , and I generally will eat that between probably eight o'clock and 1130 midnight and then I just have water from then on . I don't really drink coffee , I don't like instant coffee , and that's really all it's on offer at work . So I will take a V or a pre-workout into work with me and have that pretty much as soon as I get there , because I'm really sensitive .

Speaker 2 26:24

Hang on . Can I just stop you there ? That's actually a really good tact . I really like that . Take a pre-workout , because it's tasty and it's going to give you the caffeine anyway , isn't it ?

Speaker 2 26:31

Yeah , that's right , I never thought of that . I think that's a great idea . I mean , let's be honest , pre-workouts literally are rubbish , right , but it's got caffeine in it and it's got a big dose of caffeine , so a majority of pre-workouts would have like 200 to 250 milligrams of caffeine in it . So to have a pre-workout before you go to work other than the beta-alenine giving you a paristhesia , that tingling in your face , which is a problem , I get so itchy .

Speaker 2 26:57

I think there's something wrong , but it's a good way to get caffeine in for people that can't drink coffee or tea or they don't enjoy it . So well done , that's good . I really like that and I'm actually going to use that People that don't like it , but to get them through the night , so you would have that before midnight , yeah .

Speaker 1 27:14

Yeah , I generally have it , probably about eight , nine o'clock at night . Yep , yeah , I'm really sensitive to caffeine , so if I have it any later I won't be able to sleep through the day .

Speaker 2 27:23

That's good and that's because you don't have a lot of caffeine . So , going back to your meal before you go to work , it's protein , carbs and fats and you have significant protein . Why do you put significant protein into your meal and veggies ?

Speaker 1 27:36

Because we need five servings of veggies a day to get all our micronutrients in and protein because I'm trying to get as much protein in as I can . As I said before , quite dairy intolerant , so I struggle to eat a lot of protein , so I feel like I miss out on a lot of things like yogurts and cheese and milk and all that sort of stuff .

Speaker 2 28:00

Your poor thing . I can't begin to imagine living without cheese . It would kill me . It would kill me . I would be sad too , just quietly . Cheese is life . Cheese , anyway , and red wine . But you know , cheese is life , we love cheese .

Speaker 1 28:13

Every now and then . I'll have stuff at the moment and just eat all the cheese and then pay the price for it .

Speaker 2 28:19

Yeah , yeah , I'll get that too . That's awesome . I hope you're enjoying the show . If you are , please don't forget to rate and review once you've finished . This helps the shows reach enormously .

Speaker 2 28:33

And have you got my free e-book the best way to eat on night shift ? Well , this is a comprehensive guide to the overnight fast , why we should fast and how to best go about it . I've even included a few recipes to help you . I've put a link to the e-book in the show notes . And are you really struggling with shift work and feel like you're just crawling from one shift to the next ? Well , I've got you . If you would like to work with me , I can coach you to thrive , not just survive , while undertaking the rigors of 24 seven shift work . I also conduct in house live health and wellbeing seminars where I will come to your workplace and deliver evidence based information to help your wellbeing team to reduce unplanned leave and increase productivity in your workplace . I've put the links in the show notes to everything mentioned . You can find me at a healthy shiftcom or on Instagram at a underscore healthy , underscore shift .

Speaker 2 29:35

Now let's get back to the show . Okay , so we're going in on a seven PM shift . We're going to have a good meal before we go in , so we get our veggies in because they provide us with bulk , they provide us with fiber and they provide us with all of our nutrients . I noticed you said that you have potato or you have pasta , or you'll have rice or something like that . We don't demonize those , do we ? They're actually really good to have in our system . Why are they good to have rice , pasta , potato we enjoy all of those things . Everyone loves them . Why wouldn't you eat them ? So tell me , why do you put those into your diet ?

Speaker 1 30:08

Because I love eating them and carbs are not the enemy .

Speaker 2 30:11

No , carbs are life . Not only that , they're providing us with energy . Our body wants glucose , right , and this is what people don't understand . Oh , gotta go keto . Like , jenny at work's gone keto and she loves keto because she lost weight on keto but all she's done is lose water weight . But anyway , that's beside the point . But carbs are life .

Speaker 2 30:31

You know we've got to be mindful of the portions that we're actually having , but I love you have white potato . People don't realize , but white potato is actually the highest food on the satiety index , right ? The more white potato you eat , the more satiated you actually are , which means you feel fuller For longer . So by having a couple of white potatoes with your dinner , it's going to help to fill you up . Plus , our brain functions on glucose . What is glucose carbohydrate ? What is white potato carbohydrate ? Guys , you're feeding your brain and helping you to perform also your central nervous system .

Speaker 2 31:07

The other one that I love as well I tell people about this one going into the summer , which we are now here down under , is to have heated and cooled white potato pasta and rice . Like we are in the season for rice salad , now we're in the season for potato salad and my God , you know rice salad , pasta salad and potato salad . Let's go , ladies . I don't know whether you realize this , but when you heat it and you cool it and you have it as a salad , it's a starchy carb . We don't absorb all the calories from it . It's actually something that's not only delicious but it really feeds all of our good gut microbiota and keeps us running really , really well . Without going into the science side of it , but cooking and cooling your carbs like that pasta , rice and potato it actually you don't absorb all the calories from it and it's goddamn delicious to take a rice salad to work or a potato salad and just have it with a protein source . Isn't it early ?

Speaker 1 32:05

Yeah , and it's so quick and easy as well .

Speaker 2 32:08

Yeah , and you can make it up in bulk . You can make a rice salad up in bulk and while you're making it up in bulk , you can just take a little bit and put a protein source with it . Take a little bit , put a protein source with it , and , because it's a starchy carb , it keeps you feeling fuller for longer . Protein and fiber , ladies , gents , everyone working night shift that's what we want to keep us feeling full . Those cakes are not helping at all . Now tell me , as a nurse and you've worked in the environment for the last seven and a half years , so I'm going to call you a subject matter expert here particularly in ICU , because you have high dependency patients in those units as well what challenges do nurses really face in that shift working environment ?

Speaker 1 32:48

I think things that we've already talked about , like dysregulated sleep , dysregulated eating times , not eating enough whole foods , eating too many high processed foods , but also , as a female , I think we have a lot of negative self-talk , in particular , about our bodies . So when we go to order uniforms for New South Wales Health , there's a drop down box as to why you're ordering a new uniform , and one of the options is that you've gained weight .

Speaker 2 33:18

That's terrible . Do they really do that ?

Speaker 1 33:20

Yeah , and I don't think the uniform . People need to be knowing that .

Speaker 2 33:23

No , I think not only that , but I think psychologically that is a massive impact because no one wants to tick that box . We need to change that highly . We need to really encourage that to be removed . If you're wanting a uniform size , it should just be do you want a 12 or 14 or 16 ? You shouldn't have to justify why

Body Image and Shift Work Impact

Speaker 2 33:41

. Yeah , exactly Because what if you're pregnant ? Yeah , what if you've lost weight ? What are they going to do ? Send you a chocolate and congratulate you because you may have lost weight because of an illness .

Speaker 1 33:50

Yeah , that's right .

Speaker 2 33:51

That's awful .

Speaker 1 33:52

That's disgusting .

Speaker 2 33:54

Literally disgusting is what it is . So if New South Wales Health is listening , you make sure that you get that removed and that needs addressing . We'll take that on because it needs removing , because the psychological impact of that would be horrendous . Every single time someone orders a uniform .

Speaker 1 34:09

Yeah , definitely I know when I went through ordering new uniforms in bigger sizes because I'd gained weight also . Oh , that's really confronting .

Speaker 2 34:18

That is confronting . That's something that would impact on someone every time . How many people would not want to go and order a new uniform and pack themselves into a uniform that's too small for them , purely because they don't want to admit that they've put weight on ?

Speaker 1 34:34

Definitely . I'd imagine they'd be heaps of people .

Speaker 2 34:36

I'm sure , and wow , I'm actually quite gobsmacked with that because I've done a lot of work with Shannon Beer on body image for six months . I was mentored by Shannon and that sort of thing is literally . We'll talk about this later . Can you send me a screenshot of that ? I'd love to have a screenshot of it . Just pretend you're ordering and just send me a screenshot of that . They need to be taken to task on that because it's disgusting . But anyway , there is body . I mean I'm sure there's clicky and everyone notices that such and such is put on a bit of weight or lost weight , or everybody comes in . What diet do you want ? The challenges aren't that you deal with . All the time there's diet talk .

Speaker 1 35:11

Yeah , definitely , and everyone's just trying to chase that magic diet that will help them lose all the weight that they've gained , and jumping from keto to intermittent fasting , to doing both of them at the same time , to Paleo , to whatever other diet .

Speaker 2 35:27

Yeah , they're all looking for a magic pill .

Speaker 1 35:29

It makes me sad .

Speaker 2 35:31

It does . Literally , it makes me sad as well , but I'm not surprised with all the conflicting rubbish that's on social media that we see today , and you know that I call it out . I'm just sick and tired of it and I just I feel for startups , I feel for people who are just part of their nutritionists and they're trying to be different in nutrition because you've got nothing . You're up against massive platforms that are pushing rubbish all the time , that are so credible because they've got a massive platform but they're not right . But this is where , hailey , you and I , we can make a big difference with that empathy from that side . It's absolutely okay and we just chip away and we put little habits in place and just help people through things like that , because females as well are very judgy on each other , aren't they in that nursing fraternity ?

Speaker 2 36:18

You know I've got no doubt the people would look at you and go buddy bitch , what do you do , hailey ? Like , how do you go about it ? And you think , oh well , I just do this , but you underestimate what you actually do , do every single day , as to how you go about it . Sorry , I'll stop you before you went your pre-workout and then you get to midnight . You don't have any caffeine from there on , obviously because you're sensitive to it . What do you do as you go through the night ? You just drink water . You find that helps you .

Speaker 2 36:41

Yeah , definitely yeah , when you get home . What do you do when you get home ?

Speaker 1 36:45

I have breakfast straight away . I'll , if I'm organized enough , bring Breckie to work and have that at about six o'clock , or if not , I'll have it as soon as I get home from work .

Speaker 2 36:54

And what would you do for that ?

Speaker 1 36:56

I have gluten-free special K and a protein shake like a plant-based protein with almond milk and a banana .

Speaker 2 37:04

Amazing . So you're getting that fiber in . You're getting that protein in as well . Why do you do that ?

Speaker 1 37:10

It's my favorite breakfast .

Speaker 2 37:13

Yeah , it's delicious , yeah , but you don't demonize food because you're going to sleep , do you ?

Speaker 1 37:18

No , absolutely not .

Speaker 2 37:20

No , why should people not be afraid to eat before they go to bed ? Obviously , you don't sit down till we roast dinner and then go straight to bed . You know , but a small protein fiber meal before you go to bed . Why is that beneficial ?

Speaker 1 37:33

Well , it stops me from being so hungry so I can actually get to sleep . We need to stop demonizing food because food's okay , food's not good , it's not bad , food is food . We need the calories to survive .

Speaker 2 37:47

Yeah , and your body doesn't know that it's eating at that time . It doesn't care .

Speaker 1 37:51

It just cares that it's getting something to eat .

Speaker 2 37:53

Exactly .

Speaker 2 37:54

The body doesn't look at it and go . It's dinner time . What on earth are you putting gluten-free special care into my system for Now ? This is breakfast food . Hey body , this is breakfast food . It doesn't work like that , does it ? Holy ? It's just all it sees is protein , carbs , fibers .

Speaker 2 38:08

Okay , the protein workers come out and deal with the protein . The carbohydrate workers come out and deal with the carbs . The fat workers come out and deal with the fats . I was going to call them the fat controller then , but I won't do that . Anyway , they come in , they run around doing what they're doing , and the body doesn't recognize that it's breakfast cereal or it's dinner food . It's got no idea , it doesn't care . So I think that's a good thing . So it actually helps you . The protein keeps you satiated , as you've said . It keeps you feeling fuller , and if you have it at work before you get home , it is actually better because you give your body a little bit of time to digest it before you get home . So you get home , strip off , have your shower , go to bed . Of course , no more phone . Do your night time , do your breathing , do your meditation , go to sleep . That's right , isn't it ? Yeah , yeah , of course . So when did you find me ? How long ago was it ? You found me as a healthy shift .

Speaker 1 38:57

I think it was about two to three years ago . I found you through Mark's page .

Speaker 2 39:01

Mark Carroll .

Speaker 1 39:02

Yeah , yeah , and I just thought it was absolutely amazing that someone who is a real life shift worker is out here trying to improve the lives of fellow shift workers through nutrition and exercise . I just think it's so cool .

Speaker 2 39:17

You're looking in the mirror , while you say that you need to be looking in the mirror , while you say that , hailey , you're that person as well . You are that person that is out here trying to make a difference to shift workers . So I appreciate your kind words , but I just hope that you're looking in the mirror at the same time , because I think this is something that you you're doing , that as well . So people are gonna be looking at you , thinking how cool and I know I do . I look at you and I say how cool that there is a shift worker out here that is shift working . You're actually shift working and doing it .

Speaker 2 39:48

So when a client says to you , oh , I didn't get home till this , or I had a horrendous shift , you relate . So how do you treat that client ? You just go , I get it . There's none of this . No , you've got to get to the treadmill . You must go and do your 10,000 steps . No , you haven't done your weight session this morning . You must do that weight session . You've got to get that . You come from a position of , hey , get home , get some sleep . We'll work on it again tomorrow . We'll do that , because that's the trick , isn't it ? Definitely , if you learned from me three years ago ? What were the most impactful strategies that you learned from me that made a massive difference to your shift working life ?

Speaker 1 40:21

Sky before screen .

Speaker 2 40:23

How did that make a difference ?

Speaker 1 40:24

Just reducing one the screen time on my phone , that I'm using it all the time and helping my circadian rhythm to continue in a good cycle .

Speaker 2 40:37

Yeah , it resets it , doesn't it ? And that's the key .

Speaker 1 40:39

Yeah .

Speaker 2 40:40

It gives you 10 minutes to just set your intention from the day and actually wake up .

Speaker 1 40:43

Yeah , definitely Do some deep breathing while you're there .

Speaker 2 40:46

And just gives you a body , a chance to wake up , because we all in the dark , roll over , grab the bedside table , grab the phone , open the phone

Shift Work Health Tips

Speaker 2 40:53

. We're lying in the dark , we're looking at the phone . All of a sudden Jenny's got a problem with this and Karen's got an issue with that and Bill's dealing with that and , oh my God , and it stresses us . We wake from a rest , a beautiful rest , into a massive stress and it causes us all sorts of problems and what else .

Speaker 1 41:11

As we talked about , no caffeine after midnight . When I'm on night shifts , no food after midnight . I know that you also say to try and do an overnight fast , but I'm too hungry for that .

Speaker 2 41:21

Yep , you're a trainer and you train and you've got a lot of lean muscles . So you're in a position where you're metabolism raises so you need to feed it . So that's different and we're talking about optimally . We're not talking about the rules . There's no rules here and this is what . I've just had a couple of exchanges with people on Instagram that they're going well . How am I supposed to go from nine o'clock until six o'clock with a fast ? How am I supposed to do that ? And I say you don't have to . There's no rule . It's not a rule . No one's going to come and strike you down if you will . It's about what's optimal and I'm just relaying . This is the reason why you're putting on weight and this is how we can actually help it . That's the best thing .

Speaker 1 41:59

Yeah , definitely . I've learnt more about the circadian rhythm and why I get so bone-chillingly cold at three , four o'clock in the morning .

Speaker 2 42:06

Okay , talk about that . Talk to your people about how . Why is it you get cold at three to four o'clock in the morning when you think , oh my God , the air conditioning's just come on and why is it so cold ?

Speaker 1 42:16

So our bodies actually start to drop their temperature at three , four o'clock to make sure that we're still asleep , and in a nice deep sleep . Yep , and being awake on night shift doesn't stop that from happening , because that's just our normal body's reaction to that time of morning , exactly . So that's yeah , that's why we're all sitting around with four warm blankets at that time of night .

Speaker 2 42:40

Exactly right . It's not that the air con has kicked in , ladies and men , everybody , it's your body naturally cooling , getting ready to wake you up as well , so that it's making sure that you're in that deep sleep , relaxed , and then it starts to warm you , to wake you up , and that's why you tend to find that you're so goddamn cold between three and four o'clock , or three and five , depending on where your rhythm is at . But yeah , interesting , yeah , what else ?

Speaker 1 43:07

Just some strategies to try and optimise my sleep , whether it's during the day or at night time . Like normal people , I've invested in a really good sleep mask Right , good , so that's been amazing for day sleep .

Speaker 2 43:18

How does that make a difference to you ?

Speaker 1 43:20

I don't have complete blockout blinds , so there's still a little bit of light that gets in . So just being able to have no light in my eyes has been amazing .

Speaker 2 43:30

And what would you say to the girls that you know ? Because a lot of people say , oh no , I can't stand it , it presses on my eyes and I feel really awkward . What would you say to people like that ?

Speaker 1 43:39

No , so the one that I've bought is from a company called I Love Night Check .

Speaker 2 43:43

Yes .

Speaker 1 43:44

And it's got like these thick padded . I think it's memory foam , it's something really fancy , and so your eyelashes don't touch it , it's not . There's a big gap between it and your actual eyelid .

Speaker 2 43:57

Now , psychologically , that can make a big difference to you as well , can't it ? Because if you wake up , you open your eyes . You think , oh no , it's still pitch black . So you close your eyes again , don't you ?

Speaker 1 44:07

Yeah , definitely yeah .

Speaker 2 44:09

That there makes a massive difference and people don't understand the difference , Like some people say oh no , no , no , I don't need an eye mask , I've got blackout curtains , but there's never a true blackout unless you've got one of those roller shutters . It shuts right down . But the fact that when you open your eyes , there is literally zero light , nothing at all . And I know I've been guilty because I've rolled over to grab my phone and you know how you touch the screen to turn it on , to see what time it is .

Speaker 1 44:35

And then you look at all your notifications .

Speaker 2 44:38

I'm touching the screen . I'm touching the screen and it won't come on . And I realized I just left my eye mask on because , yeah , but you know , I thought my phone was broken or it had gone flat while I was sleeping , but no , the eye mask was , and that's how comfortable it is . They're so comfortable , aren't they , haley ? And it makes such a difference to your sleep . Fantastic , what else ?

Speaker 1 44:55

Trying to go to sleep and wake up as close to the same times every day when I'm not on night shifts and having a nice cooled up room to sleep in as well .

Speaker 2 45:05

All of that , except for the mask , is free , isn't it ? Yeah , you know , like it's all free . Everyone's running around looking for the magic pill , they're looking for the magic supplement , they're looking for the magic diet , but it's all free and it's just behavior change , isn't it ?

Speaker 1 45:18

Yeah , definitely .

Speaker 2 45:19

Perfect . What else ? Anything else ?

Speaker 1 45:21

Yeah , people are willing to spend stupid amounts of money on , as you said , the magic pill , the magic diet , doing all these weird and wonderful things . But behavior change and habit change is free . It's something that is the basics that we should be doing before we start spending crazy amounts of money on doing other things .

Speaker 2 45:38

Get the basics right . That's what we need to do . Just get the basics right . Fantastic . From what you've learned there , you will make a difference to your clients as well . Hailey , there's absolutely no doubt , and , on that , women's health is something that you are extremely passionate about , and this is why I wanted to get you on the podcast and talk to you about it as well , because you really do come from a place of understanding and empathy . A shift worker Now , admittedly , you don't have children , you don't have a husband and household , and I mean you've got a partner and household , I'm sure , and things like that , but there is a big difference with children . That but at least having half of it right means that you come from a really good position of understanding and empathy . So what do you see as the biggest challenges that female face in the shift working environment from people that you coach in your understanding now , and how would you help them ?

Speaker 1 46:26

As I said before , I think negative self-talk is an incredibly big issue with females in shift work . So trying to improve my client's mindsets kind of help improve their body image , the way that they see themselves , the way they talk to themselves , and then the disordered eating patterns as we have been discussing . Trying to eat at your regular biological clock times will make a massive difference in how you feel , how you can perform at work , getting enough sleep , getting movement in the day all these things add up . If you are suffering at home , you can't expect to be performing very well at work , which will then lead to you know , it's that cycle of that will lead to poor mental health , which will affect home , which will affect your nutrition , affect your movement , your exercise , affect your sleep .

Speaker 2 47:22

Where do you start with clients to try and help them ? Like that ? We're on the same page when it comes to the negative self-talk and what I use with clients , because I'm not someone who uses tracking . I use intuitive eating and I use improvements in body image because I think diet culture has a lot to answer for , and body image and negative self-talk are the two biggest and most critical things that cause disordered eating . That leads to eating disorders . You wouldn't speak to somebody else the way you speak to yourself . Exactly you know if you were standing there but naked in the mirror , turning side to side , looking at yourself and pinching body fat the words that you say . If I was to walk up to you and say those words to you and start pinching body fat on you , what would you do ?

Speaker 1 48:07

I'd probably slap you .

Speaker 2 48:08

Other than have me charged . Yeah , exactly , you'd slap me . Yeah , but you'd slap me Now , quite apart from the fact I'm male and I shouldn't even be there . But what I'm saying is even your best girlfriend in the change room or wherever you're doing , if a girlfriend was to look at you and start walking around you and start looking at you and then reach forward and start pinching your love handles on that , what would you ?

Speaker 1 48:30

say to them what are you doing ? Why are you ?

Speaker 2 48:33

doing that Exactly , and is that not what you should be saying to yourself Exactly ? Yeah , you wouldn't talk to a friend like that . So why would you talk to yourself like that ? You need to support your friends and you need to support yourself , because what you're forgetting is that body is highly intelligent and it will reward you as you look after it . It's taking you to work , it is recovering you from injury , it's got two arms , it gives you the chance to hug , it gives you the chance to love , it gives you the chance to walk , it gives you the chance to drive your car , it gives you the chance to listen , hear , taste , smell the whole lot . It gives you all of that , and yet we punish it because it looks a certain way , and you know what we did it .

Speaker 1 49:15

The ways that our bodies look are the least interesting thing about us .

Speaker 2 49:19

You saw that quite too , didn't you ? You saw that that was really good . When you catch up with friends , the body is the actual least interesting thing . The least interesting thing . Everybody wants what you've got to offer , and I think if we start with this and helping people with this , accepting it , people actually get rid of all of that disorder dieting and this is how I work with clients around mine . They just get rid of it because they accept who they are and then they don't end up overeating or eating anymore . It's a massive problem . Yep , sorry I interrupted you there , but body image and negative self-talk they're two massive key factors , aren't they ?

Speaker 1 49:53

Yeah , definitely , and I know myself I'm guilty of doing it as well . But I've really put in the work , especially this year . I've hired a coach at the start of this year and I've made so much progress , especially around my mindset , that's probably the biggest thing .

Speaker 2 50:09

Even us out here . Have our own coaches to guide us . You need to educate yourself in that area . People stand over you . You don't want to have to think . You just want to be told . You just want support . You need to be able to talk through a particular issue that you , as Hailey , is actually having . It's not a generic thing , so you can work through that and I think that's absolutely fantastic . What are the challenges ? Do you think the females fight in a shift working environment ? How do you deal with the snacks at the nurses station , hailey ? I mean , it's a problem , isn't it ?

Speaker 1 50:40

Our snack table is very well known throughout our hospital . In ICU it's crazy . We have chips and chockeys and lollies and someone will bake a cake and bring it in . Sometimes we order macs , sometimes we order pizza , depends on what mood I'm in . Sometimes I will indulge myself and that's totally okay , but sometimes I will try to have some self-control and no , I'm not going to eat that , because I know it doesn't make me feel good .

Speaker 2 51:10

That's a mind battle , isn't it ?

Speaker 1 51:12

Definitely .

Speaker 2 51:13

People can't say , oh Hailey , oh , you're dieting again . It's not like that . What you're doing is you're actually eating according to your goals and I think you know how those foods make you feel and you just don't want to feel that way . So what you're doing is you're making an informed decision , but you stopped and asked yourself the question do I want this ? I do . What about if I wait 20 minutes ? Or if I wait for my next break ? And if I still want it , I'll have it , but if I don't and I'm feeling good , we'll just wait . Worry about it , because it's going to be there the next night , isn't it ? That's the problem it's there the next night .

Speaker 1 51:44

Yeah , that's exactly right . I always have like a big drink of water as well , because it's like am I actually hungry or am I thirsty , or am I just bored ?

Speaker 2 51:53

Talk to me about that .

Speaker 1 51:54

Yeah , definitely . A lot of the time when we're our tummies are rumbling , we think that we're hungry . We're actually just thirsty and we've gotten past the point of you know we need a sip of water . To okay , now you actually need a really big drink .

Speaker 2 52:07

The brain's not very clever in telling where certain things are coming from in our body . I actually learnt this from a doctor during the week . That brain is not clever at localising where pain or some senses are actually coming from . So what happens is , when we think we're hungry , we eat and then we drink . But it was actually the water . We needed the water . So if you actually have the water first and wait 20 minutes or so , you might find that that actually fixes your hunger as well . It makes a big difference . How important do you think it is to bring shift work education into the workplace ?

Speaker 1 52:39

So important , like the most important

Importance of Shift Work Education

Speaker 1 52:41

thing that you can learn .

Speaker 2 52:43

It should be part of the OCC Health and Safety or part of your health and wellbeing unit at the hospital or in . Your employer should be doing it At what unit ? The health and wellbeing unit ? Now , holy , you can't say that . Okay , now listen , I've just put you in charge of the hospital , full stop . You are now the director in charge of New South Wales Health . What's the first initiative that you're going to do ? Because you know the impacts that this is actually having , based on your own knowledge now and the difference that it's made to you with your nutrition , health , exercise and going about what you're doing what are you going to introduce ? When are you going to introduce it to your staff and how would you introduce it ?

Speaker 1 53:21

I think it's something that should also be taught at uni , so before we even get to working in the hospitals . But it should definitely be something that's part of the orientation package and then something that is regular , whether it's , you know , yearly mandatory training or just regular in services or workshops that each unit does . So we have a manager and an educator in nursing , so it could be something the nursing educators do or there could be , you know , a whole , just team of people that that's their one job , that they focus on and they go around to everyone every ward and provide these in services . But it should definitely be something that is widespread and we should be focusing more on shift work and how to navigate it optimally , how to navigate our diet and exercise around it and how to not let it rule our lives .

Speaker 2 54:16

Well , we do work to live , but we don't want to live in that and we don't want to be doing that inside and outside as well . We need a work-life balance . Are you putting your hand up to make a difference ? Totally .

Speaker 2 54:26

Yeah , I would definitely , because I think that's something that we need to do . We need more of our soldiers out there really starting to campaign against this and starting to gang up on management and say this is what needs to happen . I did a podcast with Dr Jade Murray out of Monash , who's a circadian rhythm expert . She's excellent and we spoke at length about how shift working environments need to be stripped right down now and rebuilt as a shift working environment , instead of packing Hailey and Roger and Karen and Lisa into a 24-7 environment and just going . This shift needs filling stick Hailey in it . This shift needs filling stick Roger in it .

Speaker 2 55:05

I think what we need to do is we need to strip it down and we need to start building proper forward rotating rosters so that people are turning up to work because they're feeling much better , they're feeling better in their health and well-being environment and they've got education around how to thrive and not just survive in their shift work and inside and outside as well , because I think a lot of people you can talk from a nursing perspective , but I can talk from a law enforcement perspective as well Very similar . I know that your nursing staff get involved in nursing chit chat outside of their working hours as well . It's brutal , isn't it ?

Speaker 1 55:39

Oh yeah , yeah , it's like that part of your brain never switches off completely .

Speaker 2 55:43

And what does that impact your mental health as well ?

Speaker 1 55:45

It's just huge , yeah , massive , and we kind of joke about like we can leave work at work because it's not like your you know , teacher , we're constantly bringing work home to do and you're writing report cards and whatever . Like you can watch the doors close at your hospital or a police unit or whatever and works at work . You don't bring any of it home , but we do . Yeah , we constantly talk about it . We do , and there is quite an impact on it depending on the day you've had . Like if you've had a rubbish day , you're bringing that home with you , whether you like it or not .

Speaker 2 56:18

Yeah , yeah , I agree . And then if you're in your Wattap chats and people are saying , oh , nurse Jenny , she's a pain , she didn't pull her weight today and all the rest of it , you're still in that shift , aren't you ? And how does that help you ? It doesn't help anybody because really , in all honesty , no one gives a flying F . They really don't and they don't want to know . So what they want to do is they just want to go in and the doors open and you go into the ICU and you work and you do your work . If you start pulling your patients out and taking them home , you've got a major issue , right , right , you don't do that . So why not just leave everything there ? Because the beauty of your job is you do a handover to the next shift and then you can walk out . You don't have to take anything home because somebody is being paid to be there to do the job . Right , so you can walk out . You can walk home , ride your bike home , sit in the car , do some breathing exercises . By the time you get home , you're giving your best to your partner , to your family , to your children , to your life , and you're out of it .

Speaker 2 57:16

I highly recommend that people unfollow their Wattap chats and their group chats . If you think about it and you step out of it , it doesn't serve you any purpose at all . Now , going back to the employer responsibility , I love the idea that you say teach it in uni . It needs to come from the perspective of someone who doesn't understand it . You personally .

Speaker 2 57:38

You need to go back and become that guest lecturer in the uni , standing in front of people saying this is the impact it's going to have on you and this is how you go about it . Now , when that happens , you will literally just be the next lecture and it won't sink in , right ? It won't because it isn't until they've actually gone out and done their placement and they've started to really feel the impact of their shift work that they start to realise holy moly like . But that's where you need to be there again , don't you ? To go ? Okay , how's that night shift going for you ? Oh my God , remember when I told you this and told you that , and remember to do this . It needs to be a job role in itself , doesn't it ?

Speaker 1 58:16

Yeah , definitely , and you know we've got lots and lots of different units and areas in our hospital and just to get through all of that , it would definitely need to be somebody's sole job rather than it being another responsibility for the manager or the educator to have to put on their plate .

Speaker 2 58:34

Exactly right , and I love that you've said that , because that educator can't stay on top of the current research and science around shift work . It's a very , very evolving area at the moment . So what they need to do and I know you'll agree with me here is they need to employ subject matter experts to just come in and deliver a package that people are going to learn from and then they can move on . And every year they come back and do that , or every . You know bi-angly , you know whatever , and can come and do that just to keep people in touch with what the latest is telling us around it . Very important . So you're going to put your hand up for that , aren't you ? Hailey , down the track this is going to become you and me .

Speaker 1 59:11

Yeah .

Speaker 2 59:11

We're going to take them on . There's a few of us out there , there's another nurse I know that's in Ireland , that's doing the same thing and I think nursing staff in particular . If I could find a paramedic , a police person , a nurse , fire , you know , we all have our banter with our truck detailers or water ferries , the water ferries , the water ferries . Yeah , but we do . We have a bit of banter amongst ourselves . But if we could get someone from each of those services to really banter , still working it , still doing it , that's got an understanding around it . That's what brings change and makes a difference , because it comes from an area of credibility as well . Okay so , but for an individual , because obviously our workplaces are not there yet how important is it that someone who's in that shift working environment and struggling , how important is it for them to invest in a coach and why ?

Speaker 1 1:00:01

Yeah , it's one of the best investments that you could ever make . Your health is everything , and if you don't have that , then what are you doing ? I think and not just because I am a coach and not just because you're a coach to Roger but I started working with my amazing coaches , I said , in January this year , and the progress I've made in all areas has been life changing , even purely just for the accountability aspect of it and for the fact that it's one less decision I have to make . So I shop to the gym and I know exactly what I have to do , and I don't have to think about it because , as we know , shift workers are generally people that suffer from decision fatigue , and so even just simple things of what am I going to have for dinner that can be really overwhelming . Yeah , totally . I don't know that . My partner and I have lots of discussions about that , so I'm like what would you like for

Coaching Shift Workers for Optimal Health

Speaker 1 1:00:55

dinner ? He's like I don't know . I'm like I can't decide .

Speaker 2 1:00:58

I know , but that is decision fatigue , isn't it ? And this is where people say oh no , I'm not ready for coaching yet . That is decision fatigue in itself , because people are going , I can't make a decision . You need someone to help you to make those decisions . You need someone to say hey , listen , take the pressure off your head . Have you thought about this ? Oh my God , I never thought about that . That's right . That's why you've got this person over the top here to help you and , as you said , even seven years in shift work , and you've employed a coach yourself this year not a shift work coach , but you've employed a coach yourself so that you can go to work .

Speaker 2 1:01:28

Come home , you don't have to think about anything else . Oh my God , I've got to write myself a program . What am I going to write ? What do I want to do ? What do I do ? You don't have to . Someone's done it for you . You get a check in with someone . They tell you well , this is what I'm doing , this is how I'm going about it . You've got that , so you don't have to think about that either . What do I have to do this week ? Okay , I don't have to think about that either . And I think from what I learned from you as well you're very habit based as a coach . Habit to free . It's just a matter of going about how to go about it to be optimal , and I think that's fantastic . It really is just value for money to set yourself up forever in life .

Speaker 1 1:02:03

Yeah , definitely . Yeah , my sleep has improved my consistency in the gym , my strength , my nutrition . As we've already discussed , I'm quite an injury prone person , but I have not had an injury at all this year , so that's been wonderful .

Speaker 2 1:02:19

Now , that is an interesting point . A very interesting point , is it ? Because the more fatigue that we get , the more injury prone we are , and when we're training at the wrong times , that's when we injure ourselves as well , isn't it ?

Speaker 1 1:02:33

Definitely when I first started going to the gym , once I was back at work properly not unlike duties I would be like oh , I feel really good after this night shift . I'm just going to go to the gym on the way home . No Idiot , go to sleep .

Speaker 2 1:02:50

You obviously are on the same page as me with that , then , so talk to me about why we don't train when we are finishing a 12 and a half hour night shift .

Speaker 1 1:02:58

You are so fatigued whether you feel it or not , whether you're hearted up on caffeine or not , your body is just screaming at you to go to bed and to actually get some sleep , because you've been awake all night and that's outside of what your normal body clock should be doing and all of our ligaments are quite lax and you're not concentrating properly on what you're doing , and that can lead to injury .

Speaker 2 1:03:23

And does People that go to F45 sessions on the way home from night shift ? I'll give you a smack upside the head , you know , because it really is just so bad . Your body is so severely stressed from a start . You are out of line with your circadian rhythm for a start , that's it . Your body doesn't know what hormones to release at what time . And here you are smashing it with training , Like really go home , go to bed , get that sleep , and if you still feel like it when you get it , oh no , but I don't feel like it when I get up , well , that means you don't train because you don't feel like it . Simple .

Speaker 1 1:03:55

Yeah , I , as a general , don't train at all when I'm on a round of night shifts , just because of how fatigued I am and I don't want to injure myself or get another little niggle or anything like that .

Speaker 2 1:04:08

No , you want to be training at your optimal Hailey . This is why , over your journey with what we've learned about you and what you do and how you go about it now , you've now started your own business in coaching shift workers and doing what you're doing there and you're coaching them . Do you want to talk about your business and what you actually do with people ? What are you doing from a coaching perspective ? Are you PT ? Do you write programs ? Are you a nutritionist ? Tell me about everything that you actually do .

Speaker 1 1:04:34

Yeah , so I've recently launched my business called Her Health by Hailey , an online personal trainer and nutrition coach . I specialize in women's health . I just really want to help women break up with yo-yo dieting once and for all , improve their fitness and achieve weight loss While optimizing their hormone health . I just really want to help people feel the way that I feel from going to the gym and make as much progress as I've made , especially in this year . I truly believe that it has . Nutrition and exercise has improved my life , improved my health so much , and I'd love to help people do the same .

Speaker 2 1:05:12

Amazing and I do think this is fantastic for people to actually listen to and go over and have a look at Hailey's work , because I know I've said it a hundred times but to have a nurse that is selflessly sacrificing their own health for the health of others is a real credit to them . So why don't you let Hailey hold your hand and guide you around outside of your work to help you to actually do what she's just said Break up with the yo-yo dieting and actually get in and amongst the weeds and find out where you can start to build slow habits , because it definitely gains momentum , doesn't it , hailey ?

Speaker 1 1:05:50

Just taking that first step is generally the hardest thing . But once you've made that choice and made that first step , it'll just be so easy for men .

Speaker 2 1:06:01

Fantastic , well done . Have you got anything exciting coming up that you want to share with us ? Well , first of all , where can people find you ? On the socials . You've obviously out and about there , I must admit . I've had a little sneaky peek at your website and I absolutely love it . I love the colours , I love the way it's been put together and I think it's very reflective of you as a person . We're in the same business group with the same mentor through that , so we know each other through there . But well , in fact , it was gender that introduced us through there , which I thought was gold , and it shows you the power of a network as well . But I love your website . Where can people find it , hailey ?

Speaker 1 1:06:35

Yeah , so my Facebook and Instagram is at herhealth Hailey and Hailey's spelled H-A-I-L-E-Y , and my website is herhealthbyHaileycom Amazing .

Speaker 2 1:06:47

Everyone , please go over and give Hailey a yell . Give her a follow with what she's doing , because she's going to make a difference to women's health in the shift working world . We need a female voice in this area as well , because it's all well and good for me as the bloke to come in and say I know , I know , I don't know , I know as much as I can know , but I'll never , ever know what it feels like to feel like females do going through shift work . And Hailey's got your back . She will be your driving instructor . You sit in the driver's seat , she will sit in the passenger seat and she will guide you with the simple things and then , when you feel like your competent can go , she will just jump out of the car and she will go and find another shift worker to help . And she will do that and she'll do it so well . She's an absolute sweetheart and I really would love you to go over and follow her because she's very empathetic in relation to what she does . Hailey , thank you so much .

Speaker 2 1:07:35

I've got one more question , and this is the favorite question for everybody , because you came on the podcast and I've just come into billions of dollars . If I bought you a holiday house . I'm going to reward you , right , anywhere in the world , but you've got to live in it for six months of the year . Now . You can take your partner , or you can just go and have a little bit of respite from your partner as well , right , you can do whatever you want , but you have to live in it for six months of the year . Now . I don't know whether you're a summer person or a winter person . I think most females are summer people . Anyway , they like to get out there and get some sun and , as we should , get some vitamin D on us . Where would you like me to buy it or build it for you ? Where have you been ? Or where would you like me to just build it ? But you've got to live in it for six months .

Speaker 1 1:08:15

I was just going to say . I was in Melbourne last week and I think Melbourne forgot that it's coming into summer . It was so cold .

Speaker 2 1:08:21

Trust me , I'm wearing a shorts leaf today only because I'm inside and I'm in front of the lights . But let me tell you it's not warm today either . Just quietly .

Speaker 1 1:08:29

No , so I love the warm weather . I do not cope well in the cold , no , and I love the beach .

Speaker 2 1:08:36

So probably somewhere tropical like Fiji or the Maldives or French Polynesia , somewhere fun like that Somewhere fun , somewhere where you can just curl up , read a book , catch some sun and fall into the ocean whenever you're ready ? How does that sound ?

Speaker 1 1:08:49

That sounds delightful .

Speaker 2 1:08:51

I'm just going to build it and then I'll just buy you a ticket and you can just fly there . It'll be a surprise as to where you're going . All right , easy .

Speaker 1 1:08:58

Amazing Thanks Rog .

Speaker 2 1:09:01

Hailey , thank you so , so much for coming on the show . We've gone well over the time that I wanted to go over today , but it was such an enjoyable chat . Good luck , and I mean good luck , you don't need luck , all you need is just people to go over and just deal with you , because you're an absolute sweetheart , and I really do wish you all the very best in supporting me , in being out there and getting our shift working community in a really good space . One more question Do you believe that a shift working can thrive and not just survive ?

Speaker 1 1:09:29

Absolutely . I think I'm proof of that .

Speaker 2 1:09:33

There you go . Very good , Get over and follow Hailey Hailey . Thank you so much .

Speaker 1 1:09:36

Thank you so much for having me , hailey .

Speaker 2 1:09:38

Jamies and everybody . Isn't she just an absolute sweetheart ? And she really is . I would highly suggest you head over and give her a follow at herhealthbyHailey and she's that on Facebook , as well as on Instagram or go and visit the website . I absolutely love the look of her website , herhealthbyhaileycom , and if you've got any value out of this podcast from Hailey , go over and shoot her a message . It's something that she said really , really resonated with you , or you think that she might be someone that could really help you .

Speaker 2 1:10:09

For goodness sake

Supporting Shift Workers Through Female Mentorship

Speaker 2 1:10:10

, go over there and reach out to her , because all I want to do is see shift workers thrive and not just survive .

Speaker 2 1:10:18

I don't care who does it Obviously , I prefer if it was me but I just want to see people helping other shift workers in this space , and I was just so excited to come across a female that is currently shift working that is actually in this online space helping other shift workers as well , and I think that is what it's all about . So shoot her a message . She'd love to have a chat with you and she would be more than happy to help you with that . If you've got any value out of the podcast , also , please don't hesitate to give it a rating and a review . It really honestly does mean the absolute world to me and also it really supports our podcast and evidence based strategies in the shift work world to get out there and don't forget , please , on your walks , your drives , whatever you're doing , share the podcast so that colleagues in the same boat can also listen to that podcast and pick up the tips and tricks , especially the ones from Hailey . I'll catch you on the next one , thank you .