Shift Work Strategies With Roger Sutherland

Speaker 1 0:06

Shift work can be brutal , but it doesn't have to be . Welcome to a healthy shift . My name is Roger Sutherland , certified Nutritionist , veteran Law Enforcement Officer and 24-7 Shift Worker for almost four decades . Through this podcast , I aim to educate shift workers , using evidence-based methods , to not only survive the rigors of shift work but thrive . My goal is to empower shift workers to improve their health and well-being so they have more energy to do the things they love . Enjoy today's show .

Speaker 2 1:16

Yeah , not alone . Roger Sutherland , a healthy shift veteran law enforcement officer , has been doing it for a while , about four decades . Roger coaches shift workers to thrive a bit like Simon Owens , for example , that not just survive while working shift work . Roger gives shift workers more energy to do the things they love outside their shift working lives . In fact , we are doing exercises as we speak . Count us in five , four , three . Oh , that's really good . Counting on air . Great , Put your microphone on here .

Speaker 1 1:49

We got the microphone on . We're all good now . So arms up , arms down .

Speaker 2 1:53

Say hello to Simon .

Speaker 4 1:55

I don't know whether you met Simon Owens or Roger . How are you , simon Good , roger , good to meet you , and you too , and again .

Speaker 2 2:01

How have you been , bits and pieces , jumping into the overnight program and surviving it so beautifully for so long ?

Speaker 4 2:09

My first midnight to dawn was filling in for Keith McGowan on Melbourne Cup night into the Wednesday on in 2006 or 2007 .

Speaker 2 2:21

Was that a ?

Speaker 4 2:21

late call up it was . I was actually panelling for Bruce and Phil , doing nightline as we do , and have you got time for me to tell you the story ? Oh yeah , we're here for a couple of hours . So it's Melbourne Cup day . Keith's wife had had surgery a couple of days earlier and she took a bit of a turn for the worse , wasn't feeling too good and Keith rang in and said grand boy , that's what he called me , grand boy , I'm not coming in . And I said OK , keith , I'll let Clark Forbes know the program director . Good , see you up , bang , hang up . So I've run that was it ?

Speaker 2 2:53

That was Keith's delivery , that was beautiful .

Speaker 4 2:56

You know him as well as I do so . I ring Clark and I said , OK , I'll call Clark . Keith isn't able to come in to do the show and it's like 10 o'clock at night . And he says , OK , well , we'll ring Alan Piersall .

Speaker 2 3:06

Alan's the he was doing the weekend .

Speaker 4 3:08

Weekend .

Speaker 2 3:08

He said Saturday , sunday morning Morning Al .

Speaker 4 3:10

Yeah . So I try ringing . Alan Doesn't pick up . So I ring Clark back and say look , I couldn't get in contact with Al . So Clark says I'll leave it with me , I'll try . So about 45 minutes later so it's heading toward 11 o'clock Clark rings back and says I just spoke to Alan . He spent the day at the Melbourne Cup and he's not quite . He's not in peak physical condition , he was a little tired , a little emotional .

Speaker 1 3:34

A little emotional , that's what . A little emotional , that's the word Exactly .

Speaker 4 3:37

And so there was another feeling . I won't give names , but there was another feeling at the station there at the time , who was the midnight to dawn feeling , but he had recently had a discussion with the boss about a possible pay increase which was apparently along the lines of if I have to do these hours , I want more money .

Speaker 4 3:57

Really yes . And so Clark said look , I really don't want to ring the filling guy . And I said , okay , well , you've got an hour , so what are you going to do ? And he said do you want to do it ? So I said okay , and so , very kindly , bruce Mansfield promoted that and said oh look , simon's going to be doing mid-dawn tonight , but he's working with us at the moment . There is no preparation . He's never hosted a solo shift before and he's about to do his first five and a half hours solo Now , probably getting back to working overnight , really linked into that At this stage .

Speaker 2 4:30

Had you eaten ? Had you sort of had any sleep ?

Speaker 4 4:34

I would have had dinner at six o'clock or so , and yeah but maybe a bag of chips or something in the cupboard , as was my one . Roger , did you hear that ? A ?

Speaker 2 4:43

bag of chips .

Speaker 1 4:43

Bag of chips Just sitting here listening . It's amazing the names that you're throwing around there Like it's nothing , oh , that's nothing .

Speaker 2 4:49

They're just legends in the radio industry . Yeah , absolute legends in the radio industry . If you think he's a name-dropper , just wait till you meet Ben Midler .

Speaker 4 4:59

I know I try not to name-drop . Mick Jagger told me it was a bad thing yeah .

Speaker 1 5:04

Now , that's a good one , isn't it , tony ? I just want to back over something that we spoke about , one of the last text messages that we received when we went off air last time . Someone said to me oh , this bloke's a little bit of a worry to have on the show with scaring us about .

Speaker 2 5:20

I don't think that was about you , though . I think it was the information . I think it was the information being provided . Well , we hadn't really considered this in any big way .

Speaker 1 5:27

Exactly .

Speaker 1 5:27

Yeah , yeah , it's very daunting , but what I want to make people aware of ShiftWork has a massive impact on people , like it does .

Speaker 1 5:34

It's an enormous impact biologically , metabolically , on us , and what I'm here to do is to try and identify that for people so they understand it and give them strategies to help them around that , so that they don't end up down the track , because it's a long way back once your body falls , apart from ShiftWork , and you know , it gets away from you , doesn't it , simon ? Yeah , like you go on and on and on and then it just starts to get away from it . You start to put that weight on , you start to get more tired and then , all of a sudden , there's one problem after another that comes up , and I think one of the things that we need to do is just be aware of what it is that we're doing that's causing the grief . So just embracing that knowledge , understanding that this is why I can't sleep , this is why I'm putting on weight , and what strategies that we can put in place to work around it . So I just wanted to cover off on that .

Speaker 2 6:28

Should Smith's crisps be part of that as an option ? Simon ?

Speaker 4 6:35

No , they shouldn't . And I'm actually . You know what I'm enjoying and maybe you can explain this to me . I'm 52 now . I have reached a stage in my life where I can't tolerate junk food like I used to . I used to go oh , barbecue shapes , yeah , I'll have a box , and then someone else will open a box and I'll have another half a box , a whole packet of Tim Tams , one hit , yeah , exactly . A pint of milk Easy peasy , aren't you supposed to ?

Speaker 1 7:00

eat a whole packet of Tim .

Speaker 2 7:01

Tams . No , not anymore when you're 16 or 22, . Yeah , I know .

Speaker 4 7:06

I now just find I feel so terrible .

Speaker 1 7:08

Yeah , I think because as we get older , we start to eat more healthily as well .

Speaker 1 7:12

Yeah , I do and the more that we are more mindful about what we're eating and how we're going about eating it . So when we do have that packet of Tim Tams or one or two pieces of Tim Tams or whatever , I mean we talk about having that fish and salad and things like that before we come in and that's our general diet , isn't it ? Yeah , when we do go off track , we go think about it . When you go to a party and you help yourself to the platters and the cheese and all the rest , how awful you feel the next day . Yeah , our bodies can't cope with it as we get older and we have conditioned it to eating really well and then we put something that's highly processed into it and the body just goes all that gut microbiota .

Speaker 4 7:57

Well , I still commit the crime when I'm filling in for Tony on middawns or pushing the buttons for middawns . I no longer eat when I'm doing the show , but no , I don't overnight . Tony you're right , I used to , but I no longer eat .

Speaker 2 8:13

Not at all .

Speaker 4 8:14

Not at all . Yeah , if I'm hosting ? Definitely not , I don't eat .

Speaker 2 8:18

But see , Tomes , old Tony would often have a bite to eat with Woody and they get together about three o'clock and they light candles together and look at each other's eyes , that's right . And enjoy sort of 45 minutes .

Speaker 4 8:28

Back to back news and passing parades , just scritching all out .

Speaker 1 8:32

Going cook a four-course stew . That's it . Sit there with the HSP , yes .

Speaker 4 8:37

But my crime now is because I don't eat . I don't eat food for those five and a half hours , but at midnight I crack a can of mother and I drink between 12 and two , because then I get that guarana , caffeine , whatever kick that sort of keeps me going until about 4.35 .

Speaker 2 8:54

You used to hear that brie breath that .

Speaker 4 8:56

Roger just took . He wants to strangle me .

Speaker 1 8:59

I do , because what people don't realize is we actually have these health drinks , we have these energy drinks that have got in excess of 200 milligrams of caffeine in them and that's a massive problem . You know , research is showing us that even these pre-workouts , 200 plus milligrams of caffeine should be consumed 13 hours before sleep or it actually impacts on sleep 13 hours . If you're having a mother , it's got 250 milligrams of caffeine or thereabouts in it and you're having that at midnight , it's going to impact on your sleep until one o'clock the following afternoon Wow , you get a touch of the Cliff Richards , the Cliff Richards Wired for sale .

Speaker 4 9:42

Oh yes , no , but I'd send you to find that would get me through that later part of the morning , but by the time I get home and ready to hop in bed at about 6.30 , I'd be , you know , dog-tied and go and just collapse .

Speaker 1 9:56

Yeah , what we are learning now we demonize caffeine , but what I have learned recently is it's actually a really good idea to have 50 milligrams of caffeine every two hours to get you through a night shift . So , instead of having that mother of 200 milligrams at midnight , if you were to drink a quarter of it at midnight and then a quarter of it at two o'clock and then a quarter of it at 4am , that could be seen as maybe not beneficial , but it would help .

Speaker 2 10:25

See , I've grabbed one on the way in , so that that winded my car it's a macabre it's a macabre right , so I grabbed that court to 11 . That will last me . It's a large one .

Speaker 1 10:35

That will last me until after four yeah obviously it can be cold , but that's good shipping .

Speaker 4 10:39

That would have about 120 125 milligrams of caffeine in it so if I crack the can of mother at 10 because at the moment I'd crack it at two and I finished it at I crack it at midnight and I finished it at two . But if I crack it at 10 and finish it at two , then I'm getting 50 milligrams for each of those , those four hours . That would be a slight improvement on something .

Speaker 1 11:02

I shouldn't really be drinking at all , exactly , yeah , well , that's the point too , and I hope you're driving the artificial sweetener one . Are you drinking the sugar free ?

Speaker 4 11:09

one . No , I do drink the full sweetener .

Speaker 1 11:12

one Swap over to the white monster that's the best one .

Speaker 2 11:14

See how the great colleague GQ says you don't know what what crap's in there . You know with the sugar one , unless you know what that is .

Speaker 1 11:24

Yeah , I disagree . I totally disagree with that and I think the evidence supports that to actually drink sugar free drinks in the level that it's been researched in rodents , you'd need to drink about 1200 bottles of it . What did you say ? Rodents , rats , lab rats ? It's been . It's only really ever been researched in in lab rats , which are nocturnal creature anyway . They're not a dien or creature like we are , so we can't really go down that line . But the poor artificial drink , artificially sweetened drinks , really are demonized in a bad way and they shouldn't be , because there's no evidence to say to the contrary today .

Speaker 2 12:05

Not yet Interesting we're going to talk about that . You're going to stick around . You got to go .

Speaker 4 12:09

Simon , I'm happy to Stay where you

Shift Work Stories and Memories

Speaker 4 12:12

are .

Speaker 2 12:12

We'll come back more with Roger Sutherland's the Night Shift . We're talking about the Night Shift . We'd like to get some callers one , double , three , six , nine , three and I thought it might be fun to find out , listening right now , someone who's done anybody who's done more than 10 hours , 10 years of night shift . Tony Mowcler , I think , did seven years in this very chair site 2016 to 2023 .

Speaker 4 12:34

Yeah , yeah For .

Speaker 2 12:35

Macau , keith . He did way more than that Well .

Speaker 4 12:37

Keith started at 3mp on his or was it 3ak 8k , I think on over nights . So I think he did . He did 1989 or thereabouts , 8889 through to 2013 he retired , or 12? .

Speaker 2 12:53

What a great effort that was what a memory too , yeah , when you think of those years that he did .

Speaker 2 12:59

How wonderful . We'll take more calls the other side . One , double three , six , nine three . It is Australia overnight . Good morning , all right , quiet on the set . Here we go . I'm Tony McMannis . Simon's joined us in the studio where Roger is here , roger Sutherland , and we're talking about a healthy shift . Anybody that's worked 10 years or more in shift work we'd love to hear from you . It doesn't necessarily have to be overnight , it can be very early in the morning , through until the lunchtime , in the lunchtime , through until midnight . That shift work syndrome . One , double three , six , nine three . Say hello to Len in Melton morning .

Speaker 5 14:26

Good morning guys . Yeah , shift work . Yeah , I've done that . I work for TA , australian Airlines and Qantas .

Speaker 2 14:34

And in what capacity Len .

Speaker 5 14:37

Highly the highest drugs , doing catering and I'll tell you , we had a lot of people back in the day that wanted to do that job because they saw us sitting on lunchtime relaxing there and doing this and that and the other . But then you take them out for a test on a night where it's the winds blowing sideways and the aircraft's going up and down your tracks , down side to side , and all this and actually one night I was doing a . I was catering a seven-pile , seven bridge airways and we were running out of door , right , my truck attached to the aircraft , and we were running out of door and I walked in because I looked down at the nose wheel and the aircraft was moving so how many , how many , how many years did you do at all ?

Speaker 5 15:36

I said doing skipper handbrake and you already said to me thank you .

Speaker 2 15:41

Altreth , how many years did you do doing those shifts ?

Speaker 5 15:48

26 years 26 years .

Speaker 1 15:50

That's a long time , isn't it ? That's 26 years . That's great . And we talked about this , tony . We've spoken about the aircraft industry and or the aviation industry . We forget about that . All the people that are out at the airport at this time of the night loading planes , taking stuff off planes , surfacing planes it's a hive of activity overnight out there at the airport and they're all shift working people that are working days , early mornings , nights . You've probably flown out first thing in the morning . You know five o'clock in the morning and you're standing there and you're waiting . Customs have got to be there . You're checking people . The baggage handlers , the pilots , the aircrew were there about an hour before the flight . I'm coaching an aircrew member at the moment , which has been one of the most interesting experiences ever as to how they go through . When they can eat . When they can't eat , they get on the plane to start off with and then they have to go through the whole service before they can even eat themselves . They're beside themselves , you know , munching on bread out the back .

Speaker 2 16:45

They are it's a weird environment I would have thought you know in particular you and I walk up to with a check-in counter , for example . Let's say you've got a check-in at four o'clock or 4 30 . They've probably been there since quarter to four oh , absolutely that 45 difference . Whilst it's so much is a big , because I've got to set their alarm even early to get there . And then how does their day unfold out of ?

Speaker 1 17:07

that that's exactly right . So they they get up at three o'clock in the morning to be there for a four o'clock to prepare for a four 30 flight . Five o'clock flight . People are going to get through customs . Customs staff have got to be there . You know the dog handlers in the background that are working and the people that are doing all of those sort of things there . We just don't realize how many people are running .

Speaker 4 17:27

And we demand this today how do the dogs go with night shift ?

Speaker 1 17:30

that's something I never thought of they love it , absolutely love it , but they're up in a bed . You ever noticed a dog during the day ? What's it doing ? Yeah , sleeping .

Speaker 2 17:37

Yeah , true yeah yeah they've got it worked out haven't they ? Yeah , they love it . That's fantastic . Uh , simon , it's lovely to see you .

Speaker 4 17:44

You're back on deck , of course , saturday night uh yes , sat day for my second , last , the penultimate simon owens show , because the footy starts the following week exactly yes , I was coming out so quickly , that is very , very close .

Speaker 2 17:55

I've got two more , two more of my saturday night shows to go and then you'll be part of remember when , with phil on sunday night , this is all on coasting along , letting phil do the heavy . That's right as you do . It's lovely to see you smiling face .

Speaker 4 18:07

Thank you , gentlemen good to be here any good you've met .

Speaker 2 18:10

You hadn't met before no , not at all no legend status . So absolutely , a lot of people are bringing through the mentioning simon owens , referred to as a name dropping simon , quickly heading towards lendjordry status . Yeah , mr versatility , thank you tony . It's tony curtis . No relation in warnable . Well , uh , see you , simon . Thank you , uh , where we get up to oh , um , lots of calls . Let's talk to uh . Ill see , I think it is in ringwood .

Speaker 8 18:37

Hi , tony , elsa .

Speaker 2 18:39

I've been Elsa , not even close . Hello , nice to talk to you .

Speaker 8 18:45

I'm a nurse . I've been working my shift now for 37 years Wow .

Speaker 1 18:49

Go for it , elsa , that's fantastic . You've almost got me , but you haven't quite got me . I've been going for 39 , it'll be 40 years this year , but that is such a credit to you , having done that for so long in that environment . You've seen some change over the time , haven't you ?

Speaker 8 19:07

Oh yes , from the time I started to the time I started nursing in 1970 . And I've been 37 years in just in the one area so far . And , yes , things have changed for the better .

Speaker 2 19:23

Elsa , tell us about the times that have been hard , tough . Do you ever adapt ? I mean , clearly you love it . You've been

Nursing Shift Work Challenges and Rewards

Speaker 2 19:29

doing it a long time . What were the challenges ?

Speaker 8 19:33

The challenges were when my children like two kids , a two year old and a four year old and trying to sort of work nights with them , which was very difficult , so you sort of start off with a night on , night off , sort of type thing , and then eventually , as they got to school , you started bunching them all together . And I think probably the hardest time with nursing was during COVID , more than anything else .

Speaker 1 20:02

It's just common . It's very , very common . I coach a number of nurses through shift work to help them . I call them the living angels on earth , Tony , our nurses , because they do such an amazing job Through COVID . They were absolutely brutalised . They had to wear PPE gear all the time . It was such a hard role for them and they were promised the world and I think they've been delivered an atlas , to be perfectly honest in the last year because everything was shut down to take the pressure off our nursing staff and they've worked really , really hard and brutalised and they've lost a lot of staff . Now , too , it's got worse and worse for them .

Speaker 2 20:41

Elsa , did you fall out of love with the job to some degree ?

Speaker 8 20:46

No , I haven't . You mean during COVID .

Speaker 2 20:50

Well , yeah , during that time .

Speaker 8 20:53

No , in fact I loved going to work during COVID because there was no one on the road and to get to work took me about 10 minutes . The traffic wasn't there , it was just a breeze to sort of drive to work . Yeah , now I love my work and I have , and I think it's the staff that I work with that keep me going .

Speaker 1 21:18

It's a common bond , isn't it Elsa ? It's a very , very common bond between nurses that work shift , work together , they have their crew on , they work together . They really all do pull together . One thing that I do notice about nurses and the nurses that I coach , is they will just keep on turning up . They love their job . They are a particular and unique type of person that just keeps turning up day in , day out , and the responsibility , the guilt that they have not wanting to let down their colleagues yeah .

Speaker 2 21:50

Elsa , just to final for me in that journey of 37 years doing shift work as a nurse . Do you see many come and go . Can you tell at the front end who's going to survive it Of the ?

Speaker 8 22:01

nursing .

Speaker 2 22:03

Yeah , the new ones coming through . Can you you've been doing it long enough to get a sense of who will survive , who will make this work for them and their families , and for the patients .

Speaker 8 22:16

I think the young ones without partners or without sort of family , they don't have the same responsibility , or you know , they quite happily sort of ring up and sort of say , oh , I'm not coming to work today or tonight because they'd rather be out sort of can I say it partying rather than working night duty and nursing is a 24 hour job . Whether it's morning , afternoon or night duty , it just keeps going .

Speaker 1 22:47

Elsa , do you find ?

Speaker 8 22:49

You've got to have that commitment .

Speaker 1 22:51

Sorry to cut you off . I absolutely get that . It's a very entitled society that we work in today , in a 24-7 environment . Do you find that when you were young and early in nursing that you know you were taking the load for all of the experienced nurses to have their weekends off and their times with families ? And now that you're in that position it should be your turn to have that time off . But you find that you're carrying the weight for the entitled society today . That won't turn up .

Speaker 8 23:24

No , because I knew that when I came into this job that it was going to be , you know , a 24-7 weather . And I've ever since I've had kids , I've always worked night shift . So I and I'm a temper person that if I've made a commitment to work night shift and what I do I do seven nights on , seven nights off . So I'm committed to working those seven nights because I know that there's not always going to be someone that can backfill my job . I'm more in the administration at the moment rather than anything else .

Speaker 1 24:03

Okay .

Speaker 8 24:04

But yeah , the commitment is just not there .

Speaker 1 24:07

No , it's not .

Speaker 2 24:09

What a great call , Elsa . Thank you so much for being part of the program this morning .

Speaker 6 24:12

Yeah , thanks for that .

Speaker 2 24:13

Yeah , it's wonderful and wish you well . You're looking at sort of keeping going for a bit longer , Elsa .

Speaker 8 24:20

If I say if I'm coming out through Thailand , I'm looking at probably been another two or three years .

Speaker 1 24:26

Oh goodness , fantastic . Well done , it's fantastic . Thank you , elsa . It's wonderful that you've done what you've done .

Speaker 2 24:33

And please keep in touch , elsa , I'd love to talk to you again .

Speaker 8 24:37

Well , I quite often listen to you when I'm sort of doing my computer work at night . I have my radio on .

Speaker 2 24:44

Make sure you've got all the patients tuned in as well . Elsa , okay , good on you . Bye , what a great story . Fantastic . There's a lot of stories out there . Those working shift work . Roger Sutherland's here , I'm Tony McManus . One double three , six , nine three . We're three . Awm , melbourne five double eight and Adelaide , the ACE radio network . Roger Sutherland , tony McManus , we're talking all things to do with shift work . If you are a shift worker , we want to hear from you as well . One double three , six , nine three . How good was Elsa ? People are saying Rod , saying God bless Elsa , what an amazing person . And there are many else's , I think .

Speaker 1 25:19

There's so many else's out there , but thank you for calling Elsa . That was just amazing to hear from someone who's done it for so long . I always wonder where they put their wings when they go to bed at night their own jaw wings . They're just incredible people .

Speaker 2 25:33

The seven nights on , seven nights off . Would there be adjustment ? Presumably there would be . Like any other shift work where you come off seven nights to take a couple of days , I would have thought at least to go back into your more normal routine with family .

Speaker 1 25:46

Absolutely I would . I would guess Elsa would find it harder and harder now compared to what it was . But , like you've said , you experiment around to what works for you and I think with what she's done there it would be an interesting question to ask her , and maybe that's one for next time that we're here , if else can call in , we can talk about the impact that the shift works had on her over time and also , how does she come out of it ? What does she do in her seven days off ? I think that would be an interesting question as well . We are a naturally diurnal creature , so therefore we are built to be awake during the day and not at night , but we do shift our circadian rhythm , which is a problem .

Speaker 2 26:27

Text here , apparently , is it sucralose . Sucralose can be found harmful . As part of Maine , well , that's had hot and cold sort of reviews over many , many years to a false . What's the feeling from your expertise ?

Speaker 1 26:40

Anything in moderation , I think moderation , it's got to be moderation . But what we do have to be careful with artificial sweeteners as well . Is anyone dieting or anyone that's trying to lose weight are all on the sugar free or and they're getting artificial sweeteners in absolutely everything . So it does build up . So you might think , oh , I'm just having this artificially sweetened drink , but then there's the artificially sweetened yogurt and the protein bar , and then we're having more and more things that are artificially sweetened . So it does build up in our gut and if you are someone who has a sensitive gut , artificial sweetness can cause your gut microbiota , all sorts of problems .

Speaker 2 27:18

Be careful of all of that . Shawnee in Lonseston . Just a quickie . Hello Shawnee , Good morning .

Speaker 6 27:23

Good morning Tony . I'm right here . Were you a shifter ? I've done a lot of shift work in my life here . There I've done a few years in different things . I am in nursing he was an RN and I'm currently doing trolleys and I'm working all different hours and I'm finding I'm sleeping five hours one day and then I'm a day off on sleeping about 12 hours , and then I'm sleeping four hours the next night and then the day off I'm sleeping another 12 hours and I can't get up All over the shop really .

Speaker 1 27:53

Do you have a regular shift schedule that you're doing , sean , like if you work , is your shifts all over the place or is it like a routine ?

Speaker 6 28:04

No , they change all the time .

Speaker 1 28:07

That is a problem . That is a problem , without any doubt . If you're working , one of the best things that you can do is to try as hard as you can to keep everything in line , as you would during a day if you were on day , like have your breakfast at breakfast time , lunch at lunch time , dinner at dinner time , because our circadian rhythm is counting on that occurring and then getting that early light and also going to sleep at the normal time . As much as you can possibly do that to stay in sync . The reason why you're not sleeping or sleeping extended periods and then you're not sleeping properly , is because of that circadian misalignment . It's not sure whereabouts you're at in time and space , so you need to be getting that early light every day , sean , thank you for that .

Speaker 2 28:53

Do we mention the Canadian Fast eBook which people have ? Look on your website .

Speaker 1 28:58

The circadian fast eBook . Yeah , we haven't mentioned that , but if anybody's listening and they would like to go to my website , which is a healthy shift dot com , you can scroll down to the bottom and in the footer there is a free download to download my circadian fast , which educates people on why we need to fast overnight and also what we actually what we can eat . I've got a couple of cheeky recipes in there for people to have to help them with night shift as well , but it shows you how to lay out the overnight fast . I don't expect people to be able to do it straight away , but it's certainly beneficial for us biological . It's all a free download . Go and jump on the website and you can download it from there .

Speaker 2 29:39

When we come back , we might look at the idea of burnout , because that's a factor for people . It's massive in any capacity really , but it's exacerbated . Is that the right word ?

Speaker 1 29:49

Yes , exacerbated .

Speaker 2 29:50

Certainly due to those that are working shift work .

Speaker 1 29:53

Absolutely .

Speaker 2 29:54

Working various hours . So we'll do that . Next One , double , three , six , nine , three your calls as well . If you want to have a look at the website , it's a healthy shiftcom . Rogers website is a healthy shift or one wordcom for those that work in shift or have work in shift work . Let's go to a cookie . How many drivers do you get listening ? I reckon there's hundreds , because we get lots of calls , hundreds and hundreds of taxi drivers driver drivers driving overnight trucks . Oh , just everywhere . Yeah , Cookie on the road . Good morning .

Speaker 3 30:27

Good morning sir . How are you ?

Speaker 2 30:28

Good .

Speaker 1 30:31

I'm very well cookie . How are you ?

Speaker 3 30:34

There , you go Okay . I'm 42 years in the game of doing shift work mate .

Speaker 1 30:41

You've got me . Someone's got me , yeah , 42 years . What are you doing cookie ?

Speaker 3 30:46

Well , I'm a medical courier at the moment , but I used to be in the railways also , so you were on various shifts overnight .

Speaker 1 30:52

Well , that's for taking occupations and stuff a medical courier , so you're counting between hospitals , or what are you doing ?

Speaker 3 31:00

Doing everything , mate . So that's why , when you take pattern of nurses and the doctors on the back and saying bravo for them to cover , you can't forget about the little people that do things in between , because you can't treat COVID if you don't get it from the patient to the doctor or the hospital or the medical center or wherever .

Speaker 1 31:16

Now that's a really valid point . Let me apologize for that . I do try and cover as many as I can , but I'm really glad that you've called in , really glad that you've called in and let us know that you're out there and about and doing your thing as well . I think that's fantastic .

Speaker 2 31:32

The 42 years ? Does it feel like 42 years sometimes ? Cookie ?

Speaker 3 31:36

Not really , mate . I mean , I like to be so pretty active . I've got four art attacks and the stroke . I'm still here .

Speaker 2 31:44

How's your weight over ?

Speaker 3 31:46

Yeah , I'm overweight . Yeah , a little bit . But I used to do drug testing at Monash for heart pills and so forth and you know you're trying to help out where you can . You're trying to get back a little one .

Speaker 1 32:02

When you say heart test .

Speaker 3 32:03

I do .

Speaker 1 32:05

So you've been doing clinical trials .

Speaker 3 32:08

Yeah , clinical trials stop yeah .

Speaker 1 32:10

Well done . That's really good , because what we need is we need more clinical trials done on living and breathing shift workers instead of people that are not actually shift workers , that they test so to have someone who is a shift worker . I'm actually going on a clinical trial myself in . I'm hoping to go on a clinical trial myself in the next few months , so I'm going through the interview stage in relation to that , which is going to be really , really interesting .

Speaker 2 32:35

That's a good .

Speaker 1 32:35

At least a couple of years commitment quite often , isn't it ? It can be , yeah , it can be , depending on what they're actually looking at and for how long they want to do it for . But yeah , it's going to be a really really interesting trial . This one and some of the things that they're testing at the moment are really good . But , cookie , well done on what you're actually doing out there , because you're right if you're not transporting the bloods to the lab and all the I don't know the body parts .

Speaker 2 32:58

Doesn't happen yeah , it doesn't happen for people to be able to do what they've got to do . Cookie , keep in touch talking on the on the program a bit later on . Hello , chris , so say hi to Roger .

Speaker 7 33:11

Hi , tony and .

Managing Burnout and Compassion Fatigue

Speaker 2 33:11

Roger .

Speaker 7 33:12

Roger , yeah , I was on rotating shift up until a couple of Fridays ago . For two weeks I was too scared to go up in front door . I was watching those two silly things on the front nature trip . They watched me like a hawk actually magpies .

Speaker 2 33:29

So the two magpies watch you like a hawk great metaphor .

Speaker 7 33:33

Yeah , and so I , on that hot day , I'll start and head out front door and say if you don't get off the nature trip , I'll call the police . You know , I'd uh shower . My sport will come an hour . So I said , chris , there's no magpies on the front nature trip , are you hallucinating or hearing voice ? I said well , coincidentally with the conspiracy theory I had , I'm one of the magpies . Basically said ha ha , chris and Brodie , we've got the big job done in the AFL , we're at the target now at the dog hut .

Speaker 2 34:01

So how did you adjust during all of that time ? Chris , you're adjusting to shift work in your day . Were there challenges around that ?

Speaker 7 34:11

I am doing the same thing . Keeping going is that I could be up all night and get about an hour and a half , two , two and a half hours later in the morning and another hour or two and a half and then keep again and I don't need internet detectors up , because I really love Kofi and we had a really good rapport for those years and he retired on July , the 23rd 2011 , and suddenly died 18 months later by trying to turn his body clock around after seven years , on mid dawns on December 22nd 2013 .

Speaker 2 34:41

Yeah , yeah well , there was a it was a long time and a great contributor to this great radio station for many , many years and much loved Keith McGowan . Chris , thank you . Just a quick word before we let you go . The issue around burnout for a lot of people with shift workers , particularly , I guess , in emergency service .

Speaker 1 35:00

I know we've touched on it a month or so ago , but it's worthwhile highlighting again yeah , I think one of the things that we do see , particularly in our frontline health and emergency services at the moment , is burnout . But what are we actually looking for when it comes to burnout ?

Speaker 2 35:15

The symptoms almost .

Speaker 1 35:16

Yeah , I think you know people say , oh , I'm burnt out , but what are we actually looking for in our colleagues ? And I think this is something that we need to be looking at , so to recognize it in other people . Yeah , I think we need to be looking at other people . We need to be watching each other's backs to make sure that this is the situation . Are you okay ? Not just are you okay , but I noticed that you're very disconnected .

Speaker 1 35:37

You know you've become very disconnected from the people around you . You can't be bothered going to do things . You can't be bothered going to social functions . You don't have any time for anything that you start arguing with people that are closest to you as well . I think this is a real , a real good sign of burnout that you're committing so much to your work , procrastinating over tasks . You just can't get anything done . You just can't think . That's decision fatigue as well , which comes from people who are actually working in burnout situation . You can't think self-care . People don't care about themselves anymore . They stop exercising , they stop going out , they got poor sleep , they die . It really , really falls apart . That's another thing to look for as well , and just straight out physical and emotional exhaustion and I think in our nursing community as well compassion fatigue for paramedics , police and also for health sorry , and health and well-being people .

Speaker 1 36:39

We find compassion fatigue is huge and compassion fatigue is a bit of a new term . Just explain what that looks like and feels like . Yeah , compassion fatigue is awful . It's where a person , and particularly nurses , get to the stage where they just can't care for their patients anymore . They can't care for themselves and they just get this . I can't be bothered any more attitude with people and that's that is a problem and that's can be managed very early on . But compassion fatigue is is rife and you know you get to the stage where you just don't want to go to work anymore , you just don't want to care for people anymore , those when someone pushes their buzzer . When you're a nurse , you know good , and I don't want to have to go to this and I think the compassion fatigue is a very real thing and goes with burnout .

Speaker 2 37:25

Is that different to say an officer of the law , emergency service worker , ambulance , whatever the case might be on a regular basis being confronted With road trauma and you see that on a regular basis . Investigators would see that that's their job .

Speaker 1 37:42

It just has to have an impact surely , roger , I think police severely suffer from compassion fatigue . We've got detectives that are putting in enormous hours , like massive hours , day and night , to solve these cases . You know , we see them in the media and and then we go oh , that's no good , but these detectives are working 24 seven and they get to the stage where the court you know in a long career where it just I just can't do this anymore , I just can't , and that is can be compassion fatigue .

Speaker 2 38:11

You're just exhausted from giving all the time and and you just can't do it and you and and I'm going to go out in a limb here and say that for many decades you could argue that that has not been acknowledged and Insufficient has has been , insufficient work has been done to look at those sorts of issues Exactly right , and we're not .

Speaker 1 38:33

People are not speaking up like that . They just think , oh , I'm burnt out , but it could be just be compassion fatigue , which is completely different from burnout , which is completely different from stress . To help people with that , I've actually done a podcast on this with a doctor that talks about the difference between stress , burnout and also compassion fatigue , and she's released an e-book as well and her name alludes me just for this minute , but I'll come back with it . We'll get that name in a tick and and my episode of the podcast . I highly recommend that people have a listen to that because you will hear signs that you will definitely be displaying and you need to get on the front foot and get help Around that . Just that grease on all change . We do it with our car all the time . We need to do it with our brain as well .

Speaker 2 39:16

And all that information on a healthy shiftcom . Roger is Roger Sutherland From a healthy shift . Have a look at the website healthy shiftcom if you want to have listened to those podcasts . There's much up there . This , in fact , this segment , will now be podcast on rogers website as well . Jim reminds us John Sylvester sly , crime writer with the age , writes a lot about the so-called dark times and the effect of , say , emergency workers and coppers and what they see constantly . Jim reminds us that if you get to read that from the great john sylvester , worthwhile having a look at . Uh , where are we up to ? Thank you for coming in , by the way .

Speaker 1 39:55

Oh , you are more than welcome . Just to back over that podcast . Episode 102 with dr Michelle finneran talks about the hidden battles of first responders addressing stress , burnout and compassion fatigue . It's an excellent episode . It breaks all three down and you can download her free e-book on it through the show notes on that podcast as well .

Speaker 2 40:15

You are on instagram , insta , insta , insta . You're on the insta at a underscore healthy underscore , shift , and the website is a healthy shift Dot com . Now I'm still experiencing with the best sleep that I had . Today was fantastic . Not having anything to eat . I know you say have something to eat , but I hit the cot round about a bar six and went right through for the first time To look at one o'clock . Natural sleep , natural sleep , love that air on fan on , you work really well .

Speaker 1 40:45

Gorgeous , that's fantastic . And then a nap later in the afternoon go you time .

Speaker 2 40:49

That's the way to do it .

Speaker 1 40:50

So back in town back in back in turn .

Speaker 2 40:53

Thank you , Nice to see you . We'll see you in a couple of weeks time . Thank you , roger roger . Southern , have a look at the website . A healthy shift dot com . Your call is coming up the other side of the news one o'clock , half an hour early in south australian . Good morning .

Speaker 1 41:15

Thank you for listening . If you enjoyed this episode , be sure to subscribe so you get notified whenever a new episode is released . It would also be ever so helpful if you could leave a rating and review on the app you're currently listening on . If you want to know more about me or work with me , you can go to a healthy shift dot com . I'll catch you on the next one . You , you , you , you , you , you , you , you , you , you , you , you , you , you , you . Thank you for listening . If you enjoyed this episode , be sure to subscribe so you get notified whenever a new episode is released . It would also be ever so helpful if you could leave a rating and review on the app you're currently listening on . If you want to know more about me or work with me , you can go to a healthy shift dot com . I'll catch you on the next one .