Challenges of Being a Shift Worker

Speaker 1 0:01

And welcome to another episode of a Healthy Shift podcast . Once again , it's two weeks later and here we are with the audio again from my segment on 3AW Melbourne , arguably one of Australia's biggest talkback radio stations that I've been humbled to have the gig there at midnight on a Wednesday night until 1am . Now this show goes into South Australia on 5AA and also is broadcast live on the 3AW app , which you can tune into and listen to anywhere in the world , which is really quite exciting , and we do . We actually get people messaging us from around the world , which is unbelievable . When I think about it , it's really humbling to be doing this show from 3AW . It's a radio station that I always listen to and admire as a talkback radio . So to be invited in to do this segment for an hour with Tony McManus , who I'm really , really enjoying working with , we bounce off each other really well , we have good chats off air and then it just flows on into being on air .

Speaker 1 1:05

I want to make it clear as well the audio that you hear on the show is literally off the board and it is without any commercials and it's without the news breaks and things like that . So it is literally just commercial break to commercial break . So you hear the calls , you hear us communicating and it's all edited down . So what is an hour long radio show generally only lasts probably for you to listen to . This would be around about 35 minutes at the most , I would imagine . I haven't looked at how long it is , but anyway , coming out of the intro will be the audio from the show Thursday , the 25th of January 2024 . I hope you enjoy .

Speaker 1 1:52

Shift work can be brutal , but it doesn't have to be . Welcome to a healthy shift . My name is Roger Sutherland , certified Nutritionist , veteran Law Enforcement Officer and 24-7 Shift Worker for almost four decades . Through this podcast , I aim to educate shift workers , using evidence based methods , to not only survive the rigors of shift work but thrive . My goal is to empower shift workers to improve their health and wellbeing so they have more energy to do the things they love . Enjoy today's show .

Speaker 3 2:41

The night shift . You found another home . I know you're not alone . It's a little segment we call every couple of weeks on a Thursday morning . We call it the healthy shift . A healthy shift , the night shift , the host of which co-host is Roger Sutherland . Hello , roger , roger is a Veteran Law Enforcement Officer for not one , not two , but four decades . He's a shift worker . He's a shift worker . He's a shift worker . He's a shift worker . He's a shift worker .

Speaker 1 3:11

Good morning , my friend . Good morning to you , Tony . How are you this morning ?

Speaker 3 3:14

I'm really well . I had a fantastic dinner . It was an early bite to eat Some beautiful fresh fish Just baked in the . You know what do you call those Speedy ovens , Not like a Air Fryer Air Fryer , thank you . I had a mental blockbare Air Fryer and beautiful salad with some fruit in that . Very simple , gorgeous . It was the pensioners version of it , because we started at 5.30 with a couple of people and then it was all over by Red Rover , but interestingly , around about 20 past six . So after five minutes post I thought , yeah , really want something sweet . What's that about ?

Speaker 1 3:56

Yeah , it's really interesting that one that's sweet craving that a lot of people get after they have finished their dinner . A lot of that can be particularly because we are shift workers and we suffer severely from fatigue . When we are very fatigued , what we end up doing is we end up having a severe imbalance between our hunger and satiety hormones , which is ghrelin and leptin and you've probably had a little bit of a spike of ghrelin there , which is a hunger hormone . We call it ghrelin because it comes from our stomach and it's the grumbling tum hormone .

Speaker 3 4:34

And that's presumably only 10 minutes early . That's somewhat being satisfied .

Speaker 1 4:38

Yeah , what's actually happened is , had you have waited probably 20 minutes 15 to 20 minutes you should have what would be ideal would be to turn around and say , ok , I've got this sweet craving , let's surf that craving Just like a wave . If you surf it and you wait and just give yourself permission that I'll have the chocolate in 20 minutes or I'll have the ice cream in 20 minutes , or that piece of cake , if you just wait that 20 minutes , you'll probably find that that craving would have just dissipated like a wave , just washed itself up the shore . And then you would have thought oh , you know , I didn't need it , but because you had protein as well in the fish , you probably just needed to wait probably 15 or 20 minutes and then that protein would have kicked in . Yeah , because I'm sure you feel quite full now .

Speaker 3 5:26

And then went and had a rest . So you had a beautiful , light , but very , quite healthy dinner . I thought it was quite a healthy dinner , but from the little vegan piece of chocolate that I did ultimately have , where probably it may have even been to go for a walk for half an hour- that would have been perfect because that helps with our glucose as well .

Speaker 1 5:44

So what happens is and we tend to see it where I live very , very high Italian Greek population always after dinner . You see the Greeks and the Italians , they're all over at the Europeans . When we talk about a Mediterranean diet , it's a style , it's a way of living , and what they do is they have dinner and then they go for their walk after dinner because it just helps to burn and keep that glucose moving through the bloodstream . And instead of , you know , a lot of us just go and sit on the couch and watch TV straight after dinner or we still sit there , but by moving around all the time or going for that walk afterwards it does help with that glucose control . It helps us to burn it and use it .

Speaker 3 6:22

And this doesn't matter , by the way . As I understand it , Rogis , it's not about whether you're 25 or 95 , the same rules apply .

Speaker 1 6:30

Exactly the same Yep , exactly the same reason . And it's where it's ideal for people to have their dinner and just get up and just take yourself for a couple of strolls around the block .

Speaker 3 6:40

That's all it takes , All right the segment is called a healthy shift . If you are a shift worker have been a shift worker We've cleared all the lines here on 38W and 5AA as well . You'll get through straight away . We'd like to hear your story about working shift over time . One , double , three , six , nine three . Whether you've been a shift worker . You are a shift worker . What are the challenges that come up for you ? One , double , three , six , nine three . Rogis Sutherland has been specializing in this for some years now , and the more you hear about it , the more you read about it , the more fascinating it becomes .

Speaker 1 7:14

Yeah , I think it's a very , very big emerging area for research at the moment . And this is what I'm absolutely loving about it , because I was even reading some research recently about like breast cancer for females . The research was done in nurses . Now it's bad . Like shift work is bad for people full stop , no doubt about it , because of the circadian disruption . But what the research talks about is how important it is that we stay in line with our circadian rhythm and we put strategies in place to help . And that's what I'm here for now to help people to read the research , to understand the research and to keep working with clients to help them to actually optimize what they're doing around . That I can think about that .

Speaker 3 7:58

I mean , you talk about how bad it is for the one of a better word that people who were serving say let's go back to WW1 , ww2 , where people are serving our nation , if you like .

Shift Work

Speaker 3 8:14

In a crisis . Would they have thought at one o'clock in the morning oh , don't want to be doing this , I'm really tired ?

Speaker 1 8:21

No , they would not have been . They would not have been , but we didn't understand the impact of what it was actually doing to them at the same time as well . Like you know , if the shift didn't get them , like you know , you would have had people on watch , obviously , overnight . They certainly weren't sitting there with their rifle and their backpack going . Oh , I really should be sleeping now .

Speaker 3 8:42

They had a job to do . Different world , yeah , but you take a couple of calls . People are ringing through , which is just great , absolutely . Trevor in Portland , good morning to you . Say hello to Roger Sutherland . Hello Roger Sutherland .

Speaker 1 8:55

Hello Trevor , how are you ? Well , thanks for asking .

Speaker 3 8:59

How can we help ?

Speaker 6 9:00

When I have a feed , whether it be at lunchtime and I have been in the fishing industry and we shift workers but when I have a feed now , I feel like doing nothing . Not going for a walk , just sitting down or maybe even going to bed . I just feel like sitting under a tree .

Speaker 1 9:21

Yeah , that's what we call a post-prandial situation with you . So what you're doing is you need to force yourself to just get moving , because it's literally just that post-prandial situation where the food's gone into your stomach , you've got the blood that's gone rushing to your stomach as well , and it just makes you want to rest , and high protein will do that to you as well . So if you've eaten something that's high protein , it will make you want to actually rest . But just take yourself for a stroll around the block . That makes it a lot easier for you . Okay , that's fine .

Speaker 3 9:59

That's fine . Yeah for a stroll Easiest . Said that we all intellectually . I think many of us know that to be the case . It's about application .

Speaker 1 10:06

This is the biggest problem that we all have , don't we ? Everyone knows it's like children they know the difference when right and wrong , but they still do the wrong thing . And it's like us . We all know that we need to eat good , nutritious food to fuel their body , and yet we're still pulled to the foods that are less than nutritious for us .

Speaker 3 10:23

Let me introduce you to . A great friend of this program for many years is Christian . He's a driver and does it most mornings of the week . Say hello to Roger Christian .

Speaker 7 10:32

Roger , how are we going ?

Speaker 1 10:34

I'm going very , very well . Christian , how are you ?

Speaker 7 10:36

Yeah , not bad . Not bad , Just on my way home from Portland .

Speaker 1 10:40

You've got a long ride . Are you in a truck ?

Speaker 7 10:43

Yeah , I'm in a truck .

Speaker 1 10:44

Fantastic . Thank you for what you do . It's a very , very brutal job . Driving overnight . I think it's a bit of a thankless task . We all do our Amazon orders or our Australia Post orders . We expect things to be where we want them the next day , and it's people like yourself that are actually doing that . So fantastic .

Speaker 3 11:02

Thank you for what you're doing , christian did I hear you with Choney Mowkley and you're talking about the idea of , or toying with the idea of giving it all away .

Speaker 7 11:10

No , mate , I am . Yeah , I was definitely in bed , was that today ?

Speaker 3 11:15

Maybe it was a different Christian , forgive me .

Speaker 7 11:16

Yeah , definitely not . I was definitely in bed snoozing away .

Speaker 3 11:21

We have a lot of Christians on the program .

Speaker 7 11:23

Yes , yes , look , I thought about giving it away , but no , I won't .

Speaker 1 11:29

How do you sleep during the day ? Christian .

Speaker 5 11:32

Well , when you've got six kids , oh , that's right .

Speaker 1 11:35

Yes , we have spoken . Yeah , we have spoken . Yeah , I think the first time yeah that was last year , wasn't it in early December ? Yeah , very interesting . Yeah , because you asked me how to cope with dealing with six children on night shifts and I just wished you good luck .

Speaker 7 11:50

Yeah , that's all you said , that's all good .

Speaker 1 11:54

It's not easy , but well done .

Speaker 7 11:56

No , thank you , Thank you . What I was going to say was I wake up now . I have toast , you know , with a bit of pickle and ham , yep , and you have to spread it . You know , spread it . Pickle , that yellow stuff .

Speaker 1 12:11

Magnificent .

Speaker 7 12:13

And then that'd be about three o'clock in the afternoon , and then I'll have something to eat , say , around I don't know , 6.37pm . Yep , I thought I'd have that as my dinner , I suppose . But by about two o'clock , three o'clock in the morning , I'm craving like full on a massive meal .

Speaker 1 12:36

Okay , fantastic that you've actually raised this . One of the first things that I would certainly advise you in relation to this is that meal that you have at three o'clock . When you wake up , I try and really lighten that up . I try and just do the water and try and get to the main meal at around six o'clock , so you're eating at a normal time that people would normally eat , because that's when your system is anticipating it . So have that main meal . So just have a very , very light snack . I know you're calling a ham and sweet mustard pickle sandwich , which there's no downside to that in any way whatsoever , but I would try and get to that main meal and make that your main meal . Then I would put in your I'm sure that you take an eski or what do they call it , a chile sandwich box A chile bun A chile bun A chile bun in New Zealand .

Speaker 1 13:30

That's what we call them , a chile bun . But I would take something like . What I would take with you is like a Yo Pro yoga with a handful of blueberries or strawberries or some berries like that , because then what you've got is you've got that to look forward to . You know , that's there , and it's also something that's going to be like gently slipped through your system at that time when you don't want to be actually eating for your system because it's shut down . You could also have something like a protein shake , which is good .

Speaker 1 13:58

We want to make it a high protein something or other . All right , so we're going with the carbohydrates and fats , because that's just going to cause us all sorts of problems overnight . But you're in a golden opportunity there where you'll have a chilled lunch box or lunch bag that you could put some yogurt and some berries in and what will happen is the protein from the yogurt will go in and the berries will slow down the oxidization of the protein . So therefore it will last you longer and it's a nice sweet treat for you to have at that time of the morning . How does that sound , oh , christian ? What do you reckon ?

Speaker 7 14:30

Yeah , it sounds good , but I also take those mini carrots and celery with me .

Speaker 1 14:37

Yeah , with hummus .

Speaker 7 14:39

No , no , just by himself .

Speaker 1 14:40

Okay , you could do hummus Hummus just to have a little dip . Don't , don't take the whole bucket from hummus . I've got a bucket of hummus , any sugar in that . I'm not sure about sugar , it depends but it's basically just blitz chickpeas and things like that . It's very good , very good . High protein and fiber .

Speaker 3 14:55

Hey , christian , repeat after me , I will drive 500 miles .

Speaker 7 14:59

Okay , and I will walk 500 miles . There you go , christian well done .

Speaker 3 15:59

We'll do this more with Roger Settle on the other side . Come and join the conversation . Shift workers in particular , we love you . 1-336-93 . This is Australia Over Night , yep 23 past midnight , half an hour earlier in South Australia . 1-336-93 . Here in the studio is Roger Sutherland . The program , a little segment we're calling a healthy shift . As I mentioned earlier , roger is a veteran law enforcement officer how many decades Not one , but four these days as free sins coaches shift workers to thrive , not just survive . Really is the motto I guess . Working shift work . If you're a shift worker , love to hear from you . 1-336-93 . Where are we going to , alan ? Good morning to you and Lang Warren , hi .

Speaker 8 16:52

Yes , good morning gentlemen . How are you ? We will , that's good , Roger . I think our powers might have crossed a couple of times over the journey .

Speaker 1 17:01

Okay .

Speaker 8 17:03

I'm sure they have . Yeah , fellow 24 number , I think you are , aren't you Correct ? Yeah , I'm sort of well , I haven't done shift work for I'm still in the system , but sort of my people are that much longer . But yeah , so the last year I haven't done shift work , but I still . Is that through choice , or is it ?

Speaker 3 17:31

is it through choice or because that's what rostering has done ?

Speaker 8 17:35

I've got a back injury .

Speaker 3 17:36

Okay , right .

Speaker 8 17:36

Mara , so that's sort of ruling me out . Yeah , I still . It's probably the last four years of the time that I've worked solidly , or probably more . I was doing twilight shifts which ended two in the morning , yep , and I still can't seem to break that cycle .

Speaker 1 17:55

No , it's very , very difficult , because what you've got is circadian disruption , alan , and this is one of the biggest problems that a lot of shift workers have that have done shift work for a long time , takes a long time to get back into a rhythm . But I can give you a hint in relation to it , and that is to really strictly live by your light dark cycle and that's the most important . Like here , we are here now at 25 past 12 . And you're you know no disrespect at all , but you're on your phone and you're still awake . But this disruption that we need is we need to get it back in line . So we need to be getting up early , getting that early movement , getting those meals at breakfast , lunch and dinner time there and doing as much as you can to live the day in your life , instead of the old not-turn-all-life that we've lived . Yeah , what you ?

Speaker 8 18:48

were saying about the food , just sort of moving or digressing a bit . Yep , I always found that in the fitter periods of my life and I sort of read studies in it as well if you're exercising a lot then you naturally crave the better foods , and I've always found in my life when I haven't been exercising is when the diet starts falling down as well .

Speaker 1 19:11

That's exactly right . And now what actually happens there is . This is because we're self-caring and we're caring for our bodies , and I know this is going to sound very happy-clapper , but I said but it's happy-clapper because it works . And what happens is when we exercise , we want to take care of our body , so we tend to fuel it with nutritious food , whereas once we stop exercising , what incentive is there for us to fuel our body properly ? And that's exactly what happens it becomes a so-called and I say quote-unquote craving .

Speaker 8 19:42

Yeah , I mean you don't finish a sort of 5K run and then think I'll have a hamburger and chips .

Speaker 3 19:47

No , no , you don't .

Speaker 1 19:48

No , you do not . No good point , it's an excellent point and it's exactly right and it is literally mindset and this is why when I coach people now , I try and get them to do that exercise and to start working on feeling their body moving and asking themselves the question what is going to serve my body now ? Now , before I go into exercise , coming out of exercise through the exercise , what is actually going to fuel my body for this exercise ? And we naturally go for all of those good foods . You know one has a hamburger and chips and then wants to go to the gym and train . It's just a mindset thing .

Speaker 3 20:26

No , very , very good point . Alan , great to talk to you . Keep in touch with the program In Ben's Dale . Hello , Rick .

Speaker 9 20:33

How are you doing , boy ? Morning Tony . Yeah , you're doing a good job , mate .

Speaker 3 20:37

Thank you , Rick . That's very kind of you to say so . Hello to Roger .

Speaker 9 20:41

Hello Roger the Dodger .

Speaker 1 20:43

The Artful Dodger . How are you , Rick ?

Speaker 9 20:46

I have never had breakfast in my life .

Speaker 1 20:49

Good for you .

Speaker 9 20:50

I have two cups of coffee , a cigarette , and I've done that all my life and I'm 60 . Now . I've always had one meal a day and that's dinner .

Speaker 1 21:04

So you fast all day and just have one main meal .

Speaker 9 21:07

Well , you call a fast mate . By the look of the sky you wouldn't believe it . But in the same token , now I'm retired , in the last 5 , 6 years , mate , I'll wake up at 10 o'clock , 11 o'clock in the morning .

Speaker 1 21:27

Going to bed . At what time Can you explain that ? What time would you go to bed ? If you're waking up at 10 , 11 in the morning , what time are you going to bed ?

Speaker 9 21:35

Well , midnight .

Speaker 3 21:38

And what's sleeping right through to you and me between then and 9.30 or 10 ?

Speaker 9 21:44

No , I have trouble sleeping .

Speaker 3 21:46

You've got trouble sleeping . Well , what's your answer there ?

Speaker 1 21:49

Yeah , well , look , I'm not surprised . One of the reasons why I would say you're having trouble sleeping is let's have a look at the time now like it's 12.30 . Now you've either been hanging out to talk to me on the radio at 12.30 , or this is what you generally do . So what you've done is you have changed yourself to what we call a late chronotype , so you are now someone who sleeps from 12 o'clock . But I've got to be honest with you , though , rick sleeping from 10 , 11 hours , that's not healthy at all . It's not good . You need to be , you know we need to be between that 7 to 9 hours . I mean , you can get not enough sleep , but you can also get too much sleep , and if you're sleeping for that long , you want to be questioning whether you're getting good quality , restorative sleep . How do you wake up ? Do you wake up ? Well ?

Speaker 9 22:34

You wake up tired .

Speaker 1 22:35

Yeah , that's because you're not getting that restorative sleep .

Speaker 9 22:38

Yeah , that's a problem , what needs to be done ?

Speaker 1 22:43

Well , the secret is you need to be trying to slowly move your circadian rhythm back . So tonight , go to bed at half past 11 and sleep through until you can get up at what would be

Shift Work and Improving Sleep Patterns

Speaker 1 22:56

like 9.30 . Then what I would do is I would then go to 11 o'clock later on in the week and then I would get back to 10.30 . Then I would get back to 10 . So , gradually , what you're doing is you're going to bed earlier and you'll start waking up earlier , because for health you really really do need to be going to bed between that 9 and 10.30 , 11 o'clock and waking up at around 6 , 7 o'clock in the morning , getting up and getting on with the day .

Speaker 3 23:23

Early to bed , early to riser , we go .

Speaker 9 23:25

So when I do that , you're going to have less people on your program .

Speaker 3 23:30

Thank you , good point . Thank you , that's right . He's trying to talk us out of the program . Have you no listeners ?

Speaker 1 23:36

Yeah , maybe on it You're still on your mouth . I might have said it the wrong way around .

Speaker 3 23:41

Thank you . Hey , Rick , how much are you having ? Why do you have any beers ? What are you drinking ? Much alcohol during the day .

Speaker 9 23:47

Beer's good on you , Tony .

Speaker 3 23:48

Yeah , thank you , You're not mate . Yeah , good on you , You're a beauty , Just settle down . I'm going to touch with the program . Rick . 13693 is our telephone number . Roger Sutherland , a little segment calling me a healthy shift . 13693 . More of you . Plenty of room on the board too , by the way , For shift workers . We know you're out there . Wherever you are , you might be a driver . What else would be ? People working in factories maybe .

Speaker 1 24:12

Oh , industry taxi drivers . What about all the airport people ? We've got so many people that are out there . All the emergency services , nurses , doctors there's got to be people out there that can give us a call and run your problem bias , or even just call in and leave us a question and we can answer that as well , and certainly maybe you've got a great experience Over the years .

Speaker 3 24:30

you've developed a system for yourself that works really , really well . It's not . This is all not downside , by the way Absolutely not People have been doing this for years and do it really well , Absolutely they do Love the lifestyle .

Speaker 1 24:41

Yeah , absolutely love it , All right 13693 .

Speaker 3 24:44

More calls here on the side of this . Hey , shawnee , thank you very much . We've got all your texts coming through and from overseas . Rick sleeps about 10 hours straight without waking up to go for a you and me . He may want to hydrate a bit more as well . Thank you , people notice those little things . Bless him for being able to do that .

Speaker 1 25:05

Yeah , good on you , Roscoe good morning to you .

Speaker 3 25:08

How are you , mate ? We're really well . Roger Sutherland is here in the studio . Tell us about your shift work , if at all , Roscoe .

Speaker 4 25:20

We've done both me and my wife done night shifts for about 23 years , wow , so you're both working the same shifts , are you Roscoe ?

Speaker 1 25:29

Yeah , yeah , Close those nights . She started 10 till six .

Speaker 4 25:32

I used to drive rubbish trucks so I started between eight and 10 at night and going all the way down to the top of the hill and then at night and going all night and always come home in the morning , have a couple of beers and cook tea . Make something to eat for work .

Speaker 1 25:54

It's something that people just don't get . Do you Like when you and your wife come home and sit there and have a couple of beers at like seven o'clock in the morning and people would look at you horrified ? Yeah , but it's just natural . Early openers Well , yes , there may have been plenty of early openers .

Speaker 4 26:08

Yeah we've been going home .

Speaker 3 26:11

So what's it what ? What I want to get to , though , on behalf of the audience , is does that put , is that now natural to you ? Does it put strain on ? Is it a ? Would you say it's a good way to lead a life ? What are the ups , what are the lows ?

Speaker 4 26:26

No more we up . Yeah , we made plenty of money out of it . The lows will probably get no social off .

Speaker 1 26:34

How many nights would you do ? Five .

Speaker 4 26:38

No , most people would say oh , we finished Friday morning . You've got a long weekend , but you haven't because you still still got to have a sleep part Friday . So Saturday's the only day off and you'd better lunchtime on .

Speaker 3 26:53

Sunday . Sunday you have to get ready , and that's the same with doing overnight radio program too . By the time you get home Friday morning , you know it might be 7 , 7.30 , you have a bit of a kip . So your day pretty much goes you know from , or your weekend really starts from early afternoon or mid-afternoon Friday , but you've really got to on the Sunday afternoon come lunchtime . You're thinking about well , I've now got to sort of get into a routine to come back in at 11 o'clock for midnight .

Speaker 1 27:20

Yeah , that's the problem isn't it . When people see shift workers around and you probably get it yourself , Tony , as well . Oh , do you ever work ? Like , do you ever work ? Yeah , Well , you're asleep and I'm actually doing my job .

Speaker 3 27:34

Well , people ring and say oh look , can we catch up for lunch , or can we catch ? Up and have a meeting at 2 o'clock in the afternoon , or can you do a pre-recorded interview with a celebrity at , you know , 10.30 in the morning ?

Speaker 1 27:44

No , not at 10.30 in the morning .

Speaker 3 27:46

I'm not you can't , roscoe , I wish you were with your project . Keep in touch with us , Michelle Infantry Gully . What sort of work do you do , michelle ? Good morning .

Speaker 10 27:56

Oh hi Hi . Good morning and thank you for taking my call .

Speaker 3 28:00

Welcome .

Speaker 10 28:01

Hi , I've worked as an administrator , but for the last couple of months my sleep patterns have been just dreadful that I've been waking up at about 3.30 regularly , you know , in the morning , and I don't know why . And so I'm just , you know , seeking some guidance on why that could possibly be happening , because it's a pattern to pattern also .

Speaker 1 28:36

There you go , so you've probably just answered your own question there as well , michelle . What you've done is it's created , you've trained your body , and it wakes at 3.30 . Now it's important for people to note as well . Majority of people do actually wake or stir around that time , because that's when our body temperature drops to its absolute lowest , from somewhere between 3.30 to about 4.30 . Have you ever felt cold ? Do you feel like you're cold ?

Speaker 10 29:03

Yes , I do .

Speaker 1 29:04

Yeah , that's why because your body temperature is dropped and what it does is our body temperature is at its absolute lowest between 4 and 5 AM and then it starts to warm us up , literally to warm us up , to wake us up , and so , by being awake at that time and you feel cold , it's the time for you . You've come through , but you've woken . So what you need to do is you need to not get light , not get movement , not do anything and just wait for that circadian rhythm to put you back to sleep again . But what you may have done is you may have created a bit of sleep anxiety there as well , because you wake up at 3.30 , you get frustrated , you can't go back to sleep .

Speaker 10 29:45

Yes , that's absolutely what has happened , because I wake up , I look at the clock and I look at the clock and it's 3.30 , and I'm thinking oh , my god , here we are again .

Speaker 1 30:02

Yeah , yeah , yep . So what you need to do is not look at the clock , the most important thing . Can I make a suggestion to you ? If I could Try a sleep mask and try and put a sleep mask on , and the reason why I say that to you , it'll stop the temptation of opening your eyes and getting that light Because you've already woken . If you roll over , there's the movement . If you actually look at the clock , it's light going to go into your eye as well . To look at the clock , it's only a little bit , but it's enough for your brain to go oh , we must be awake . We must be probably awake .

Speaker 3 30:35

Does that make any sense , Michelle ?

Speaker 10 30:37

Yes , it absolutely does . It absolutely does Because I look at the clock and I think don't be ridiculous . You need to sleep for another three hours .

Speaker 1 30:54

OK . So what we're going to do next time you wake up tomorrow 3.30 , you are going to just do some control breathing . You're not going to open your eyes , You're going to do some control breathing Four seconds in , seven second , hold eight second out and just do all of that through your nose , like Tony's doing now .

Speaker 3 31:10

Let's do it together , everyone .

Speaker 1 31:12

Yep , but all through the nose , control breathing and focus on the breath and you'll find you'll go straight back to sleep .

Speaker 3 31:20

Like Sue . What was the woman that did it years ago on the telly ? Sue was a Sue . We were talking about it the other morning a British person who would come on the telly . Sue Harper , I've got the name wrong . Somebody will tell me . Doug , good morning to you . Where are you calling from , doug ?

Speaker 2 31:39

Karanjang .

Speaker 3 31:40

Right , OK , welcome .

Speaker 2 31:42

No worries . Yeah , I've got similar problems with most of these people . I did shift work for a bit over 50 years , and I've been retired for over 12 months now , and I'm a shocker . I'd be lucky to have three hours sleep a day .

Speaker 3 32:04

Yeah , what sort of work did you do , Dougie ?

Speaker 2 32:07

Emergency stuff .

Speaker 1 32:10

Very good .

Speaker 3 32:10

Good on you .

Speaker 1 32:11

Well , thank you for doing the 50 years Well . That's absolutely a credit to you for doing that , because you sacrificed your own health . And , tony , this is where we start to see now the impact that shift work has on people . Even long after they've retired , it's still impacting on their health and they're not being able to sleep .

Speaker 1 32:28

And what we need to do as shift workers and to our shift workers that are actually listening , that are retiring or coming close to retirement put a plan in place to get back into that night day cycle . So get up early , get that early movement , get that early light , reset that circadian rhythm to a normal nine to five . And we do that by getting up early , getting those meals in at the normal breakfast , lunch and dinner time or , if you don't have breakfast , just lunch and dinner time and getting that early movement , because those three are the main three Zeke give us that our body responds to . As far as resetting our circadian rhythm goes , you've got to remember it can't see , our biological clock can't see , and it responds to that movement , that nutrient , timing and that light .

Speaker 3 33:14

Doug . Just a quick one from me , tony Mack , in terms of the 50 years commitment to the work that you did for that period of time , what impact , if any , did that have on family and family life ?

Speaker 2 33:27

Oh yeah , it costs one relationship , but that's no problem , you know . And there was other factors in that . But it didn't matter what shift I was on , whether I was on night shift , it'd come home at 7 o'clock in the morning . I'd be awake by 10 . And if I was on early shifts or 12 hour shifts , I was three , four hours maximum . And I'm still doing it . Now here I am at this time of night listening to you guys and I'm tired , but I can't sleep and I'll be awake at 5 o'clock in the morning .

Speaker 3 34:06

It's about a reset , roger . I mean , what are you just resetting ?

Speaker 1 34:10

Well , first of all I hate to say it , but we need to we need a social detox , like we need to get off the phone , get off the TV and start to put what we call the sleep hygiene in place so that we're training our body to calm down , to breathe , to calm down , until such time as we're coaching our body to go to sleep . Because if you create the environment , your body will definitely take care of the rest . And you know , with sleep problems there's always a . If you go back , there's a root cause . Always , there's always a root cause , whether it's caffeine , whether it's stimuli from blue light or light overnight , whether it's stress stress impacts greatly . A meal too late , what type of foods we're actually eating there's a number of things that are actually impacting greatly on our sleep and if we look at people who are poor sleepers , we can look back and generally there's something that you can fix in there that helps with that problem .

Speaker 3 35:07

Good on you , doug . Will you keep in touch with the program , doug ? Let us know how you go in the next coming weeks .

Speaker 2 35:13

No worries , thanks very much .

Speaker 3 35:14

It's a challenge for a lot of people , but amazing 50 years , for example , is it ? I think that's probably the

Shift Work's Impact on Health

Speaker 3 35:21

longest that we've heard from a caller ? Is it 50 years ? Yeah , it's the longest we've heard .

Speaker 1 35:25

50 years is a long time to be upsetting your circadian rhythm and the biological impact that that has is enormous . Like it is massive .

Speaker 3 35:33

One , double , three , six , nine three , Australia overnight . Good morning to you , the wonderful Tony Mowclare who sat in this program for about seven years . Michael , ask any word on how Tony Mowclare is sleeping after seven years of doing overnight ? Oh , he's a baby , he'll manage . But I would suggest Michael , give him a call . I was listening to the program yesterday , Fantastic callers . He's on our three AWP program between midday right through until three . Give me , ask him , he'll tell you . Very happy . It's taken him a long time to actually say good afternoon and not good morning , which is also a bit of a trick , Rog . Couple of things that we wanna raise People taking shakes and things . There's some good and bad about that , yeah , yeah .

Speaker 1 36:25

Well , I don't consider a protein shake a supplement . A lot of people call them supplements , but it's actually a food . It is protein in its purest form . So it's really , really important and a really good way for people to get protein in . Now you might ask why would you need to get protein in ? But protein is . It's the building blocks of our body . It's really good for our hair , skin , nails , whenever it puts our workers to work . We eat our protein . It breaks down in the body into all the different amino acids and then it goes to where it's needed . I'll give you a hint , and give everybody a hint If you're gonna visit Nanna in hospital , don't take a box of chocolates . Take a protein shake .

Speaker 3 37:04

Hello Nanna . Hello Nanna , it's your protein shake , you know how we used to bring in the red tulip . Yeah , that's right . Now here's some protein .

Speaker 1 37:12

It's a protein shake because it's shown , too , that older people , as they age , it's harder to get protein into them Because sarcopenia is the muscle wastage . They need that protein all the time . So you've gotta be right on top of your parents , as well as grandparents , making sure that they're getting protein , protein shake , or even just the protein powder mixed into a yogurt and stirred up and had really good Did you mention blueberries earlier ?

Speaker 3 37:38

I did , and they're on special at the moment . They are indeed 350 opponent Yep , very very good as low as Chris . Good morning .

Speaker 5 37:46

Yeah , good morning guys , how you going ?

Speaker 3 37:48

Yeah , well , thank you .

Speaker 5 37:50

Yeah , look , I'm at Seven Security Guard the last five years working in and my but also it's two days and two nights and boy isn't it happy . I got a gut issue and , yeah , I'm trying to fix it , sleeping pattern everything . So that was my last night shift score Wake up early around 11 o'clock and trying to wake up and I was thinking it was gonna be a good sleep at night . But now we're five years having issues with the gut issues and a lot of things going on .

Speaker 1 38:23

Yeah , that's shift work to a T . Now , what we need to do in relation to you , I coach shift workers around this . I'm just gonna give myself a plug here as well . So this is something that we actually do . I work with people because I have to have a look at their lifestyle , what you're doing , what your shifts are .

Speaker 1 38:42

It's very convoluted , but the gut issues that you are having will be through circadian misalignment . There is no doubt eating foods at the wrong time . It's what you're eating at the wrong time that will be creating the gut issues . Maybe not enough water , it could be stress stress on your body . There could be a heap of things that happen there . I'll give you a hint If you have a reach out on my website ahealthyshiftcom , I've got some blogs on there that you might find very interesting to have a read . Or you can reach out to me through the website ahealthyshiftcom or even through my Instagram as well , and on my Instagram I have it's a underscore healthy , underscore shift , and I've got a lot of information there and you can reach out to me through there . I'd be happy to talk through that with you if it's something that you're interested in doing .

Speaker 3 39:33

Well done , keep in touch , chris . Good to hear from you . Paul , we'll get a quickie from you in South Australia , good morning .

Speaker 7 39:40

Good morning Justin .

Speaker 3 39:42

Well , excellent , paul , go ahead .

Speaker 7 39:44

I worked in a foundry for 29 years , 20 of which were on night shift . Whoa we started 11 o'clock Sunday night and knocked off at 7 o'clock in the morning .

Speaker 3 39:55

Which part of South Australia , Paul ?

Speaker 7 39:59

It was in . It was in Climpton , north Climpton . We used to make Harley Wheel .

Speaker 3 40:03

Yeah , right , of course , those beautiful mags .

Speaker 7 40:07

Yeah , well it was . The foundry started off as a Holton car park and then , when the Aussie dollar crashed , they cashed in on it and we became the sole provider of Harley-Davidson for about 20 years .

Speaker 1 40:20

Wow , very good . So tell me , so you're doing the shift where you started at 11 pm and you finish at 7 . How do you structure your meal timings around that ?

Speaker 7 40:31

Well , my breakfast is my tea .

Speaker 1 40:34

Yep .

Speaker 7 40:35

When I get home about 8 , I sleep to about 2 , 3 , 4 . I don't worry about it anymore . If I wake up at 2 o'clock I think , well , obviously that's all I have to have to get up and I don't do much . I mean it's not like to go out and cut the lawn or punk a house or , you know , reconstruct a fence or anything like that . So I'm pretty sensible there and hydration is the key .

Speaker 1 41:00

It is , Would be for you working in a foundry . No doubt about it . This is one of the biggest problems that we have , Tony , with night shift workers as well . They don't drink enough water and , as shift workers , we need to drink a lot more water than regular 9-5ers do . And the reason for this is because of , once again , this circadian misalignment and our gut is resting and it doesn't digest food properly overnight as well . So keeping that water going into our system all the time and I know it's not practical all the time for people like nurses , you know , and drivers and things like that because otherwise you're stopping going to the bathroom all the time , which costs you money as a driver .

Speaker 1 41:38

Yeah , yeah , that's right . So , and we can't be doing that . And also , you know , we look at our police and our paramedics that are out on the road at jobs or doing what they're doing . They can't just go to the bathroom all the time , but it's vital that we still keep that water going in all the time .

Speaker 3 41:50

Stay there , paul . Come back in just a moment . Roger Sutherland , we'll see you in a couple of weeks Meantime . Have a look at their website healthyshiftcom .

Speaker 1 42:07

Yeah , that would be fantastic . We've got a question here too . Is there any link between doing night shift and higher rates of obesity ? I really want to cover this , but we won't do it this week , in two weeks time . I've made a note and we'll definitely come back to you , so thanks for that , because that's an absolute yes . Please go to my website , healthyshiftcom . I've got heaps of information on there . Or come and give us a follow on Instagram on A underscore healthy underscore shift . Thank you so much for tuning in .

Speaker 3 42:33

Thank you for coming in , roger Sutherland . A healthyshiftcom when we come back . Australia overnight continues . Yours truly , tony Mac , one , double , three , six , nine , three , anything you want to raise on the program open line , we love it Still be coming .

Speaker 1 42:55

Thank you for listening . If you enjoyed this episode , be sure to subscribe so you get notified whenever a new episode is released . It would also be ever so helpful if you could leave a rating and review on the app you're currently listening on . If you want to know more about me or work with me , you can go to a healthyshiftcom . I'll catch you on the next one .