Optimizing Shift Work for Health

Speaker 1 0:00

And welcome to episode 101 of a healthy shift podcast . 101 episodes it's really quite a milestone . This because the audio that you're going to hear in this podcast today is my audio from an opportunity that I was given last night which was absolutely mind blowing for me . At the age of 55 , I returned to study evidence based nutrition so that I could transition into retirement , combining what was going to be about 45 years of shift work with my certified evidence based nutrition , and what I wanted to do was I wanted to coach shift workers to help them with what has been a massive shortfall in education in my entire journey in shift work , and that is how do we optimize going about doing shift work ? My goal has always been and I mean always been to reach as many shift workers as I can possibly reach , and I run a social media platform . I'm on LinkedIn , I've got Facebook , I have Instagram , I run this podcast and I'm trying to reach as many people as I can .

Speaker 1 1:11

But you can't begin to imagine my absolute shock when the phone rang two weeks ago and it was Tony McManus from 3AW , the overnight radio host , asking me if I'd come in and talk about shift work on his Australia overnight show . I was really absolutely blown away and I thought about it and I thought , god , do I want to go back to night shift ? What do you mean ? Do you want to go back to night shift ? Of course you want to go in and talk to your people , rog , and that gave me an opportunity to go in and talk to you , the shift worker , while you are actually in pain working your shift work . So there I was at one o'clock this morning sitting there in the studios of 3AW , which is arguably the biggest talk back radio station in Australia , going into Victoria and South Australia and next year it will be going into New South Wales as well as Queensland , and there I was talking to Tony McManus about shift work and taking calls , and on the other side of this you'll hear the audio from that .

Speaker 1 2:26

Shift work can be brutal , but it doesn't have to be . Welcome to a healthy shift . My name is Roger Sutherland , certified nutritionist , veteran law enforcement officer and 24 seven shift worker for almost four decades . Through this podcast , I aim to educate shift workers , using evidence based methods , to not only survive the rigors of shift work , but thrive . My goal is to empower shift workers to improve their health and wellbeing so they have more energy to do the things they love . Enjoy today's show .

Speaker 3 3:04

Now this is Australia Openight with Tony McManus .

Speaker 4 3:12

And it's wonderful to be here on this Wednesday morning , 6th of December 2023 . When the role was offered to me by the senior management of nine , part of which is 3ow , I said well , I'm happy to take on the role of hosting an overnight program . It's not something I hadn't done before , but I certainly hadn't done it for some time , and there was some considerations around that , a about shift work and what that was going to feel like no longer being 25 . Put that to one side for a moment . I am thrilled and very , very privileged to be in this chair Through a mutual friend . Funny things that happened , roger , through a mutual friend . They said , oh , you should talk to our friend Roger Sutherland . And I said why ? And they said well , because Roger specializes in working and understanding and helping people that are shift workers . Move on for about two and a half weeks and Roger Sutherland is here in the 3a w studio . Good morning to Roger and thank you for coming in .

Speaker 1 4:22

And good morning to you too , tony . Yeah , I such a privilege to be here . I'm truly humbled , and this gives me an opportunity to speak to my people , the shift workers .

Speaker 4 4:32

So just share with the listeners , roger , because whilst you're doing this work and we'll come back to that just a moment you had a history of being a shift worker for a long time yourself .

Speaker 1 4:44

Yeah , I've been a shift worker myself now for 39 years . I started shift work at 20 years of age , so if you're a mathematician , you'll work it out . Are you happy to say in which industry ? Yeah , I'm working law enforcement here in Melbourne , in Victoria , so I'm quite comfortable to talk about that , and I just watched my shift working buddies health just completely suffering so I could see weight gain . There was a lot of metabolic problems with people as well and I thought there's got to be a better way .

Speaker 4 5:18

And was that something that was talked about when you were a ? Trainee no , no , no In those days , I think where it was for training .

Speaker 1 5:29

The Academy of Glam Wavling . Glam Wavling .

Speaker 5 5:33

Glam .

Speaker 4 5:33

Wavling when I think was for the priesthood .

Speaker 1 5:35

Sorry , I got a big step Thank you .

Speaker 4 5:39

So were those issues around shift work discussed during training ? No .

Speaker 1 5:44

They're just not . And I've learned to Tony that , talking to people into the shift working industry because I've been coaching shift workers one to one now for over three years and one of the main things that I do talk to people about is that nobody at all is really educated and reinforces to how to go about shift work . So you know , you get handed a pamphlet or you might get a half an hour lecture at the start of your journey , but then there's no reinforcement , there's no following up as to how you need to go about doing it , and I think this is the biggest problem that the lecture . At the time that you're getting all this information flowing into your brain , it doesn't go in . You need to actually have this conversation with people down the track and it needs to be reinforced all the time so that people are understanding , because this is a new science too . Like I've been doing shift work for nearly 39 years and things have been discovered only in the last few years , so we need to be staying on top of it . And guess what ?

Speaker 4 6:43

I'm here for it and we're thrilled to have you here . We'll take some calls . If you are a shift worker , feel free to come and join us wherever you are , right throughout Victoria through the ACE radio network , 3aw and then 5AA , right throughout South Australia for shift worker . This is an opportunity . We just want to get your feedback really about what it's like for you . For how long have you been a shift worker ? What are the trials and tribulations ? 1-3-6-9-3 . So would you say you fell into this because of your experience .

Speaker 1 7:12

Absolutely I was looking for . Well , it was going to be a hobby transitioning into retirement for me once I'm getting close to 60 now . So it was going to be a transition into retirement , but it's well . It'd be fair to say it's exploded because we underestimate the value of educating shift workers to our workplace . Because by increasing awareness around shift work we're actually increasing productivity . We're keeping our people well so that they can actually turn up to work and do the job . Productivity increases , morale increases in the workplace . It can actually have a bit of an on-flow effect that people tend to all pull together on working around strategies . I've found a few clients that I've coached in work environments . It's manifested through the place that everyone's doing the same thing and it's just made such a difference to workplaces which is very humbling for me as well being able to do that .

Speaker 1 8:08

So I returned to study to do it all evidence-based . So I wanted to understand which you did through COVID . I actually studied that through COVID . Yes , I met the director of probably the gold standard school of nutrition and I said to him I just want to know whether your course would be any good for shift workers . And he goes oh , I've got great advice for shift workers and I said yeah , what's that ? And he goes . Yeah , don't do it . He goes , the evidence is too strong against it . And I said how did you get here ? You've flown on your plane , a taxi driver's driven you here , someone's loaded your bag , someone's served you . You're gin and tonic on the plane . You know we're sitting here now listening to the radio and we forget about the journalists that are all out there gathering news All the time . All the time People on radio stations right around the country . We've got police , we've got fire , we've got ambulance paramedics , we've got all those poor nurses working .

Speaker 4 9:04

They do an amazing job and God only knows what we do without them . When you're a really crooked three o'clock in the morning , that's a story for another day .

Speaker 3 9:10

Yes .

Speaker 4 9:11

And I linked into Roger those that are in that slightly older demographic who , for whatever reason , can't sleep , don't sleep . Is that linked into somehow the rhythms that you often will talk about ?

Speaker 1 9:26

Yes , well , we have a biological clock inside which is a circadian rhythm , which runs at circa DS , which is about a day . So it runs on a daily cycle every single day , and we need light and darkness to like to reset it every single day . So what we want to do is we need to get that light exposure . If we don't get that , our clock phase shifts , starts to shift and shift and shift until we become so out of sync , which is why we feel ordinary . Then we can't sleep when we want to sleep , then we , when we eat , we get digestive issues . No , all sorts of problems metabolically occur because our body still goes through that cycle every single day and we need to learn to work with it while we're doing shift work instead of just fighting against it . But understanding and awareness is the key .

Speaker 4 10:17

Well , that's why you're here to talk us through some of that as we go . There would be many people listening right now , as you know , that are driving either driving a truck or driving a car for security and all those sorts of wonderful people , men and women , Correct Drivers . Let's talk to one Christian who's a regular and great friend of this program . Christian , where are you ? Good morning .

Speaker 6 10:38

Morning gentlemen . I am on my way to a chute then Swan Hill . Yeah , it's a big drive .

Speaker 4 10:42

Say good morning to Roger , roger Sutherland from Healthy Shift Morning , roger .

Speaker 1 10:47

And good morning to you too . How are you ?

Speaker 6 10:48

Yeah , not too bad , not too bad , A bit down today , but anyway , I've just had a problem with the truck today , so well tonight . Well , you're in a brutal job that far behind in my trip .

Speaker 1 11:02

You're in a very , very brutal job , working overnight and driving . It's very , very difficult for you to do , so how do you go about staying awake ?

Speaker 6 11:09

Oh I , just have my coffee . I do my breaks that I have . If I have to pull over , I pull over . I'm trying to eat healthy , but that's yeah . It's hard , yeah , and just listening to the radio music , that's all it keeps me going Just when I get home and I need that sleep . We've got six kids between us my partner and I , and three of them , and three of them are just absolute little shits . My heart will not shut up .

Speaker 1 12:34

My heart goes out to you , christian . It's very , very difficult to work around that . That's the sort of thing that you've got to sit down and have a conversation with your partner about what your needs are and I know , as you said , it's difficult with six children but it's a conversation that you need to have out of the heat of battle , other than running out of the bedroom and having it in the heat of the moment . I think I tend to advise people to on a Sunday , while you're sitting there having brunch , talk about your needs and what you actually need and how you need to go about it and what there is that your partner can do for you .

Speaker 6 13:06

Well , she does as much as she can . We've got one there . She will just not listen . One bit it goes in one ear and straight out the other . Does not care , absolutely does not care . And you try everything , discipline the whole lot , just does not listen .

Speaker 1 13:25

And you've sat down and tried to have a quiet conversation . I know this is you know it's rainbows and unicorn stuff , isn't it ? We try and have a conversation , if we can have a conversation , but I do feel for you . It's very , very difficult . But you've got to persevere and I can promise you it will definitely get better and sleep when you can . Even those naps of 20 to 25 minutes are invaluable to you .

Speaker 6 13:49

To try and get I wait for them to go to school and then , once they've gone to school , I'm gone , I'm out for eight hours and then , yeah , I'm up there and that's the problem . I'm not exercising , because I'm up and then I'm on my way to work and then I'm jumping in the truck and off I go .

Speaker 4 14:07

Vicious circle .

Speaker 6 14:08

Yeah , and some nights , you know , like I'm doing big trips , like tonight's a massive trip and I'm pulling a B-double tonight . Other nights I'm pulling singles around and you know you've got to try and get to these places and you're trying to do everything in a 14 hour shift because I'm on a BFM book , Yep , and yeah , it's hard , and if I miss out tonight I've got to pull over and have my 10 hour break . You know , on the side of the road somewhere .

Speaker 4 14:37

Christian . You've raised a whole heap of issues which Roger no doubt will address when we come back . We'll do this break . Keep listening . We'll do this break and then come back and talk more with Roger Sutherland . We've invited Roger in . He runs a little outfit called Healthy Shift . I like the expression we're going to get shift

Shift Work and Its Challenges

Speaker 4 14:54

faced , which I thought I heard somewhere else . It was very funny . 18 pass one . It's Australia overnight . I'm Tony McMannis Moore with Roger the other side .

Speaker 3 15:03

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Speaker 4 15:14

Stop it . Most of those Phantom we can't use but they are quite brilliant . If you have just tuned in for the first time on this Wednesday morning , roger Sutherland's here from Healthy Shift 133693 . And we've invited Roger in . We met through a mutual friend and I said Roger , why don't you come in and have a chat , just see what it feels like , and if there's sufficient interest , we'll get Roger in on a semi-regular basis to talk about some of the issues of you , me and others that work overnight or any kind of shift , I guess , michael , thank you for holding the line . Say hello to Roger Sutherland .

Speaker 2 15:48

Hi Roger , I've been doing night shifts since 2001 . So about 22 years . I'm a night manager at an Aboriginal hostel . I do a 12 hour shift , seven till seven , and I get through like on a bottle of E and a you know a Ricca Tony or a hamburger with a lot . And if I get tired I find that we've got a cold room in the kitchen . I find if I go in there for five minutes it's soon . Wakes you up .

Speaker 1 16:24

As in that . That is what wakes you up . Do you have the facility to have any sort of a nap ? Because a nap fits with you .

Speaker 4 16:31

I asked you , not allowed to not allowed to nap .

Speaker 2 16:34

Yeah , not allowed to sleep , because I'm like security and night manager and we can have people come and go at my work , so and sometimes you may get someone a bit , you know , dodgy and that . So I can't afford to sleep unfortunately .

Speaker 1 16:54

Yeah , I understand that 12 hours is a long shift , but one thing that I would advise you to be very , very careful of I wouldn't be going into the cooler between , say about three and five AM for your body , because by cooling your body down further , it could almost force you to sleep , because your body cools between that three to five AM . Have you ever noticed , when you're sitting there , how much cooler you feel ? You get cold and you think , oh , the air conditioning's come on or something like that ? It's actually your internal core temperature dropping . It naturally drops as your circadian rhythm rolls around at that particular point in time and what it does is it does that because then it starts to warm you to wake up , because it's normal for you to wake up at , like you know , six , seven o'clock in the morning , so it cools you and that's your coolest body temperature point and that's when you are at your deepest possible sleep . At the same time as well .

Speaker 2 17:48

Yeah , I find that my body's new to a new rocket because I've been doing it for so long , so it's like clockwork . You know what I mean .

Speaker 1 17:58

How do you go about your ? You do a 12 hour day a night . Sorry , do you only do night shift ? You don't do days .

Speaker 2 18:06

I only do night shift . I do 75 hours of fortnight .

Speaker 1 18:12

Okay , but how does that look ? Do you do two or three in a row ?

Speaker 2 18:15

Yeah , so I go back tonight , and then I finish Friday morning , and then I go back Sunday night , and then I finish Tuesday morning , and then I go back Thursday night and I finish Sunday morning . So that's how my roster works .

Speaker 1 18:30

That's difficult . What are you doing your days off ? How do you go about your day off ? Do you try and stay in that night zone or do you get out of it ?

Speaker 2 18:39

I play golf on my days off .

Speaker 1 18:41

Good man , that's perfect . I suggest that because you can't put your body into that full night shift mode . No matter how hard you try , you won't , because the natural light will see . The natural light will actually upset your circadian rhythm . So getting up and going and playing golf ASAP and getting out in that light is perfect .

Speaker 4 19:02

Michael , keep in touch because there's lots of things to work . Have a rough . Just going back to one of the things that Michael said and the change , the history of the human body , I guess would be that they wouldn't have spent , or did the caveman , if you like , go out at night hunting ? I don't know , presumably not .

Speaker 1 19:23

Well , it's quite interesting that you say this , tony , because , as humans , pre-light , we actually used to sleep in two sleeps and they used to wake up in the middle of the night because as it got dark there was no light and the melatonin production would occur as the light got dark . So , if you think of it , you've been camping , and when you're sitting , around the campfire at night . This is pre-mobile phones .

Speaker 4 19:48

We're going back a few years . Kumbaya , kumbaya , my lord , we're showing you a radio .

Speaker 1 19:54

But then we consider around the campfire , playing the guitar and looking into the orange light of the fire , and have you ever noticed that you think , god , it must be really late , I better go to bed . And you look at the clock and it's only like eight o'clock at night , or eight thirty , but you wake up at six in the morning . It's your natural circadian rhythm actually working for you so . But before light people used to go to bed , but then they used to naturally wake up in the middle of the night . People complain about waking up in the middle of the night , but it's actually , it's almost primal that we would wake up in the middle of the night , and it's the disruption with the electric light that we've actually created the bigger problems for ourself . So going camping no , I'm not sure that they would have gone camping in the dark , so I wouldn't have been able to see at all .

Speaker 4 20:35

I know you don't want to speak on behalf of your former colleagues and co-workers over the years , but what about a young copper who's 25 , 28 , young , enthusiastic , and they've got to be alert at three , four , five o'clock in the morning because , as you well know , there are some challenges out there . It must be not easy for those people .

Speaker 1 20:57

Extremely difficult because cognitively you are struggling right Even though you're awake . See what we've got to understand , which is very , very important .

Speaker 4 21:07

And you say none of this is historically addressed , or certainly not addressed sufficiently .

Speaker 1 21:11

No , and we're only learning more and more now through research , the statistics . Some of the world's biggest disasters , like Chernobyl , occurred on night shift and it's because people make poor decisions when they're on night shift and I think Chernobyl occurred around three or four AM or something , which is the worst possible time . Cognitive leak that's when your body is at its absolute shutdown mode and people misunderstand that because they're awake it doesn't mean that their body's awake . Your body is still going through its 24 hour hormonal release stages , so it's causing you more problems . So hence the reason why , cognitively , you're not functioning properly . I'm sure you would probably get to the stage on this program at three , four o'clock in the morning where it becomes a bit of a battle or it can , for some people , become a bit of a battle . That's when you'll push the wrong button or make the wrong decision and historically , your pocket though .

Speaker 4 22:02

Yeah , you learn to pocket .

Speaker 1 22:03

Yes , you do . Yeah , but you can't be afford to be in control of massive equipment or something like that , like you know . Think of the mining industry . You know , working overnight , driving those , however many tongue trucks , they are A big cat , yep , driving those . And that's like . You can't afford to have a mistake or fall asleep , because your body is doing everything at that point on to force you to go to sleep .

Speaker 4 22:26

Yes , we will do this when we come back . Doris , you will be next cab If you are a shift worker . I thought we might get a few more callers from shift workers . Hopefully we're listening and engaged . If you're a shift worker or have been a shift worker , love to get some feedback , your experience as working , whether it would be in a hospital , whether it be in a car or drive , or whatever you were doing . Lots of taxi drivers presumably would be up and listening . Love to get your stories . Come and join us . One double three , six , nine three . One double three , six , nine three . That's Australia Overnight .

Speaker 3 22:56

Australia Overnight on 3AW for CPAP Victoria , supporting your prescribed CPAP therapy with the latest equipment and advice .

Speaker 4 23:03

Cpapvictoriacomau I need a couple of calls people One double three , six , nine three . One double three , six , nine three . I guess the real question , roger , is what do people love about working overnight ? What do people love about being a regular shift worker ?

Speaker 1 23:20

I've got my highlights . I love to be able to go to the gym at 10 o'clock in the morning . I think that's fantastic because you can go to the gym when others can't . And also appointments being able to attend appointments and make appointments at times that during the day when other people can't , it's just gold . All appointments See a specialist . Have you got 11 o'clock open ? Yes , we have . Or on standby . It works really really well . What about we ask people ? Ask people what they love about it .

Speaker 4 23:49

Yeah , there you go . What do people love about shift workers ? Shift working at Doris ? Good morning , Say hi to Roger .

Speaker 7 23:56

Hi Roger , hi Tony , morning , everyone's body clock is different . Now , all since I can remember , since I was a teenager , around about three o'clock in the morning I would wake up and for about an hour I would have the best ideas would be flowing and I'd write my best essays . Or even when I was teaching , I would virtually wake up and I'd get this inspiration that I could plan lesson plans , whatever , for about an hour or so and then I could go back to sleep . Now , what I read years and years ago was because of light , our

Sleep and Eating for Shift Workers

Speaker 7 24:38

electricity and light , all our body clocks top time .

Speaker 7 24:42

If you know what I mean , what caveman used to do ? They used to go to bed when it was dark , but in the middle of the night , after about four hours , which is usually the rhythm four hours is the rhythm for deep sleep someone would wake up and for about an hour someone would stoke the fire and look after the fire , and then maybe another guy or another whatever usually the men would wake up and that person would then go to sleep and another one would stoke the fire because someone had to look after the fire . That's a good story .

Speaker 2 25:16

What's happened ?

Speaker 7 25:17

with our modern era , we switch on the lights . Now the thing you need to control is the amount of light that gets into your brain at odd hours . So it's the control of light , control of oxygen . And about 15 years ago I learnt this thing in yoga that if you put your legs up against a wall at a 90 degree angle and just lay there and with no noise , darkness , or even wear an eye pillow with lavender or something , and all you do for about 15 minutes is focus on your breath , and virtually that 15 minutes or so is equivalent to a three hour power nap .

Speaker 1 26:10

Can I just the power nap absolutely works . It's really important , Tony , that we get those . Good morning to you too , doris , and thanks for your call . But what I want to talk about just out of , I want to back over something that you just literally said . Then , with the people waking up after four hours and going out and stoking the fire , we've got to remember that they're not actually getting any light exposure other than that orange or amber light , and that is a big difference and we can expose ourselves to those . It's like those salt rocks that we have in our homes . That light is okay . So a salt rock , you know the salt rock , the orange salt rock light things that we have , that people have because they're I'm not saying that they're effective as a salt rock , but it's the colour of the light it's an orangey colour light .

Speaker 1 26:57

We spoke off here before about the campfire when you go camping and you look at that fire and at eight o'clock at night you're thinking , oh god , I feel really tired . That's your natural circadian rhythm , with the melatonin onset , and then you actually want to go to sleep and you wake up early . So if you ever want to know what your natural circadian rhythm is , take yourself camping Now . The lavender research actually shows that lavender oil and lavender spray on your pillow or around your body that helps . Melding lavender absolutely helps with the onset of sleep . Plus , as a bonus , it also triggers your brain that what are we doing ? We're going to sleep now . So by what happens is if we keep a hygiene , a sleep hygiene , a routine , and do the same thing every day , what happens is we start to set our body into a routine to go to sleep , and the breath work is the key too .

Speaker 4 27:48

Would he like to have a bite to eat when he's doing the overnight program at the other side of the glass and many do I choose not to eat overnight Mistake .

Speaker 1 27:58

You actually should not eat overnight at all . There you go , woody .

Speaker 4 28:02

There you go , Woody don't eat . Told you so , told you so , told you so .

Speaker 1 28:09

All right . Our body doesn't metabolize food as efficiently overnight as it does during the day . We're very , very insulin resistant overnight , which means we can't shuttle that glucose into our muscle , right . So what happens ?

Speaker 4 28:23

is so Woody would have a routine where , come to or just up to two , we'll have a bite to eat , but it's a light and sleazy food that he gets delivered . So you go , whips that in the microwave and we'll spend 10 minutes throwing that down for the most part .

Speaker 1 28:36

Yeah , no , that's what see . That's even worse because he's not even digesting it properly , so he's throwing it down . He's having it at 2am , when his body's actually in a total sleep . On my website , tony , and I just want to give myself a shame .

Speaker 4 28:49

Yeah , please do On my website if you go to my website , ahealthyshiftcom .

Speaker 1 28:54

Ahealthyshiftcom . I've got a free ebook on that website that you can download , which is called the Cicadian Fast , and it talks about how you should eat over a shift , and it's a really handy resource for people to actually get hold of as well . So what we do is we talk to people . I talk to people about why we don't eat and how to structure this overnight fast as to what to eat at what time . You'll notice I've come in here . I'm only drinking water . I'll only drink water overnight while I'm on night shift . You're on that water , yeah , water , you're on the water as well , and we need to be very vigilant .

Speaker 4 29:32

Because the cliche was black coffee , wasn't it ? That was the cliche , you know beverage of the overnight worker .

Speaker 1 29:39

Of always . If you didn't have black coffee breath , then you weren't a night shift worker were you at all ? And we do have these traps . Our food environments are a trap for us and , like you said about Woody , he's in a position now where he's conditioning himself to do that .

Speaker 4 29:54

It's like we're talking about him . He's just sitting the other side of the glass .

Speaker 5 29:56

No , I'm learning .

Speaker 1 29:58

Yes , but it's really , really important that we don't eat , particularly between midnight and six . But if you can fast from 9pm until 6am , then you're giving your body its optimal chance to rest , even whilst you're working , though . Correct , but we can have in my ebook , my free ebook , off my website , a healthyshiftcom .

Speaker 4 30:20

A healthyshiftcom repeating a healthyshiftcom .

Speaker 1 30:25

That ebook explains to people . I don't expect people to start at 9pm and not eat until 6pm while you're a nurse running around doing no nurse work and driving and truck drivers and things like that . But optimally we need to fast , but there are ways that we can do it . What we should do is we should just have little snacks or just have a protein shake or something that's really really easy to digest , so that we're not putting our body under any strain . Because I can tell you now , the weight gain from shift workers comes from eating outside of the biological day , Because research shows that shift workers don't actually eat any more than what our regular modifiers do .

Speaker 4 31:06

They just eat the wrong food at the wrong time , Woody and we know a couple that sort of do that , don't they ? They're snacking , they are snacking . And you've worked very closely with a great friend now on the afternoon program who was a bit of a snacker . Is that unkind ?

Speaker 5 31:20

Yeah no no , he was , he was , but we would , religiously we would eat at two o'clock , which I mean no secret here . Tony and I used to the previous house the overnight show , the old Tony . We used to have the passing parade on at two o'clock . Obviously I saw it was consistent for the audience to listen at that time that they knew at 207 that the passing parade was going to be on and part two to that was that so Tony and I could go and have a , have a feed and listen to John DeRomas and but yeah , I mean , look , I think you very few when I first started doing overnight so I didn't eat .

Speaker 4 31:58

And now religiously I ate at two o'clock and I try really hard not to eat silly foods but what did you eat during the day , though , because that's going to presumably be linked into this whole equation yeah , see , today it's a very good question .

Speaker 5 32:11

Saturday I 12 30 , I ate . I had a yogurt with some muesli right on lunchtime , which is a good time , yeah , and then I didn't eat until about eight o'clock , which was just some veggies and some and some meat yeah , protein and carbs , which is ideal , yeah .

Speaker 1 32:27

So my , my , this is my recommended , this is what I would highly recommend that people do . That are night shift workers . We're talking night shift , which means you're doing sort of two hours , but somewhere between 10 a 10 pm and 5 am . That's the definition of a night shift worker . So I would , when you get home from night shift , like Tony , when you get home , you probably get home about 6 , 6 , 30 . Yep , that's a good time to have something like protein , protein and oats , right , scrambled egg , scrambled egg and a piece of toast ideal , right . And the reason why I say that is because you're getting protein in , which helps to maintain that lean muscle and also helps you to remain satiated while you're sleeping . And the carbohydrate in the toast actually also is helping you to not only go to sleep , but it also provides a small amount of energy to your body while you're sleeping as well .

Speaker 1 33:17

But we don't want to eat too much because we can put our digestive tract under pressure while we're trying to sleep . Now . Then we sleep and then when we wake up , depending on the time that you wake up , but we still want to try and have our lunch at our lunch time . So if you woke up at 2 30 in the afternoon , that's not a time where you would have a massive meal , right , you won't feel like it anyway . But , like what he said before , it's really good to have like he just had some granola and some yogurt or yogurt and berries , just as a light snack , something that's easy , and then at dinner time , either with your family or around that dinner time , it's a good time to have a really good meal of protein , carbs and fats as well . So that's when you could have your pasta , that's when you could have your meat and three veg and your potatoes . Putting something into your system overnight and then just have a light snack or something around nine , ten o'clock and then fast overnight more of your calls the other side of this .

Speaker 4 34:16

As special guest , rogers southerland from a healthy shift . Have a look at the website . A healthy shift , dot com dot a , no dot com , no , just dot com . Healthy shift dot com . Roger one , double , three , six , nine three calls the other side of this astralia overnight on three aw , moving to beautiful adelaide .

Speaker 3 34:33

Make it the best move ever and get the white glove mover to take care of everything , and they'll even make you bed in the studio .

Speaker 4 34:42

The great man simon owens has just joined us , who is the consummate shift worker . Simon roger roger . Simon simon roger . Gentlemen , good morning to you now been known and I say this with great respect to us , simon to indulge in the occasional snack when working , certainly on air , on a sunday night or a saturday night , as he's been doing for some years and even for a long time , regularly , the co-host of this , the host of this program , and then the snacks will sneak in , something of which he is very proud yes , but I'm getting better .

Speaker 8 35:13

I am improving as the years go by in terms of what I do when I'm on air , although I'm so sorry to say the first thing I do at midnight , when I fill in on this first thing I do , 12 o'clock , news hits and I go open up a can of mother , which is , I think , 112 percent sugar , it's all sugar , all sugar .

Speaker 1 35:34

What's not sugar is caffeine why aren't you on the sugar free one , then the white one .

Speaker 8 35:40

Well , when I drink my regular soft drink though I drink , you know , coke , no sugar , pepsi max , when I drink those well , see the jared jared , jared quickly would say they're not any better for you than that .

Speaker 4 35:51

No , that is true .

Speaker 8 35:52

Blend sugar that is true , I think they're all , they're all terrible , they're all bad for us . If blend , robert the great , led robert's one said with you know , coca cola , black water can't be good for you , can't be good for it that's so true , isn't it ?

Speaker 1 36:03

so roger what do you reckon ? How do we help him ? Well , we he needs help because he admitted to me before that he actually had a morrow bar yeah , just that , just then , I was just eating it as I walked out of the office at two o'clock in the morning now , what I want you to enjoy now from this point forward , yes , is that glucose just running around in your bodies , in your bloodstream , just running around with absolutely nowhere to go ?

Speaker 1 36:26

yeah , and then sitting on your hips by about four , five am in the morning , yeah , and that's where it'll stay until you get rid of it and then I'm .

Speaker 8 36:34

So I've got to go for a walk tomorrow and I'm moving a shed tomorrow , so that'll hopefully help with just as much . I can't try to bad diet , no no , you can but look I . My diet used to be terrible .

Speaker 3 36:46

I used to eat a bag of chips every night

Shift Work's Impact on Female Health

Speaker 3 36:47

, um you know , and like a frozen , pre-packaged frozen meals crisps , crisps , yeah , yeah , a bag of crisps ?

Speaker 8 36:54

yes , uh , in fact I did last night , but but I haven't done it for a long time . I used to do it all the time . My diet has improved and when I'm at home now , I always have healthy cooked meals and I salad . I do love a salad , so I'm a lot better now than I used to be , and if I open a block of chocolate , I used to just polish the whole thing off .

Speaker 1 37:14

You open a I still do , yeah , still do , yeah . Well , I I now find because I've adjusted slightly .

Speaker 8 37:22

My favorite chocolate is cadbury's rum and raisin , and so what ? And so what I what I do with that ? Because it's a dark chocolate , you can't eat a whole block .

Speaker 3 37:29

No , you , can't you can well .

Speaker 8 37:31

So I open a block of chocolate and I'll have one row and that's that's it we don't need those people in our lifetime who has one rubber chocolate ?

Speaker 4 37:39

yeah no , how can you do that ? Uh , simon , we're getting calls , we're getting text , so are you okay ? Are you okay ?

Speaker 8 37:46

I think I am , apart from being fat and bald , and you know , yeah , I'm okay , I think we're done with the second part .

Speaker 4 37:52

Uh are you going home now ? What are you still doing ?

Speaker 8 37:55

uh podcast I've had an engineering issue which I've been chatting to our two gb partners about not to do with this show , just a general issue . Um , I've just done denis walters podcast and I've just made my promo for my saturday show , my saturday night show , the slot you're so familiar with thank you in which involves somebody I stole from . You sandi .

Speaker 4 38:15

Sandi k . Thank you . Well , I'm trying to sort of see if I can sneak her back occasionally on the overnight program . Uh , get out , see you thank you bye bye , that is simon owens . Now the question just came up , roger , about the . When we're talking about this we tend to think of is there a distinction in the impact that being a shift worker has on a male as opposed to a female , or same ?

Speaker 1 38:37

no , it's a massive impact on female health in a big way . Females quite apart from the fact they look totally different , but female biologically are very different to males internally . Just to give you a stat , it takes 14 hours longer on average for food to digest and pass through a female digestive tract .

Speaker 4 38:57

Is it depending on age ? Is that a variable ?

Speaker 1 39:00

No , no , no it's well they're looking at what . This is what the research has actually shown . So as we age , so it slows down as well . But we're in a position where our female shift workers are in a position where they're outside of their circadian rhythm , plus the food's taking 14 hours longer for it to go through their digestive tract . Their stomach is less acidic , they've got a , their colon is actually longer as well and the colon empty slower , the stomach empty slower . So if you're one of those poor nurses or females that are working overnight and you're putting those highly palatable , highly processed carbohydrates and fats into your system , you're actually compromising your system really badly and this is why female shift workers end up with a lot of gas and bloating and digestive issues . It's because of what they're putting in their system overnight , outside of the sync of their circadian rhythm .

Speaker 4 39:57

Great note from Jess who said Hi guys , I used to work with Roger . He is a legend , says Jess . True story . Another thing I noticed with shift workers night shift workers at a small station I work with eight of us young shift workers , all female but all had fertility issues . Does shift work affect fertility in young women ?

Speaker 1 40:21

Absolutely it does . There's a lot of evidence around female shift workers suffering from the infradient rhythm disruption . The infradient rhythm is their menstrual cycle , so we have a circadian rhythm which runs on a 24 hour cycle , and then the female has an infradient rhythm , which obviously males don't have , which is a rhythm that runs somewhere between 26 and 34 days , being that menstrual cycle . The infradient rhythm relies extremely heavily on a synchronized circadian rhythm , so once the circadian rhythm goes out of sync , so the infradient rhythm is out of sync as well , which causes us a big problem and can cause menstrual irregularities . A lot of females will understand , will know they're probably nodding now too that we can actually have problems with a cycle . Their cycles can become quite long 45 days . It can drop down to 2021 with shift work . I know people that have done an odd shift work , one odd one and it's thrown their whole cycle out for a few months until it settles in again . So massive impact . Thanks , jess , for the message .

Speaker 4 41:27

Well done , jess . Thank you . A text from a number ending in 641, . Maybe his dealer Does Simon mention Peter as he gets to live to the studio late on a Saturday night . No , curiously , he didn't mention that . Thank you , we will do this , jim . We were going to come to you but you've disappeared . My friend , we'll see if we can get Jim back in just a moment . It is our very special guest , roger Southern . That hour's gone pretty quickly , roger , from A Healthy Shift , a healthyshiftcom . Have a look at the website .

Speaker 3 42:01

You're listening to Australia Overnights on 3AW 693 .

Speaker 4 42:07

At news . Not far away it is Australia Overnights 3AW here in Melbourne and 5AA Adelaide . And right throughout the Ace Radio Network , roger has been our very special guest , roger Southern from A Healthy Shiftcom . Look at some great messages coming through . Roger , you'll be happy with this Fantastic segment . Boys here , I was at one o'clock wanting to go to bed and I'm back on a rotating shift railway at 3 o'clock Thursday . I'm always stuck in the opposite of going to bed at 3 . Ah , we doomed a zombie , matthew , at Essendon , and I guess that's what a lot of people sort of tend to live with , don't they ?

Speaker 1 42:48

I've got to tell you in my three years of coaching shift workers one-to-one and I do coach shift workers one-to-one if people are looking for assistance through the website Sorry , another shambles plug I've got to tell you railway workers , train drivers , are the most brutalised with the roster of anyone I've ever seen , other than dock workers as well .

Speaker 4 43:07

What I've seen is Is that because that's what the industry does to them . Yep , it's what the industry does to them .

Speaker 1 43:12

It's got nothing to do with them and how they go about it . It's what the expectation is from their employer and I honestly believe that in years to come and I've had on my podcast , I've had researchers doing this where they speak about that we need to strip 24-7 shift working environments down and we need to rebuild them as 24-7 shift working environments . So what we need to do is we need to not just pack people into holes to fill shifts all over the place , like nursing docks . We're a 24-hour industry . We need to strip it down and we need to look at what the research is telling us about . Should it be a forward , rotating shift ? Should it be a backward ? How should we be going about it ?

Speaker 4 43:52

That's the challenge , I guess , for everybody . Look at all the , for example , the 7-11 stores 24 hours . I mean to staff that into those people that are doing that and then dealing , you know , probably to Thursday , friday , saturday , sunday morning would be challenging , very , very challenging , very challenging .

Speaker 1 44:07

But then you've got to look at the environments of coaching a few air hostesses or Kevin Stewart . Oh yeah , dreadful long haul flights .

Speaker 4 44:15

We've got a lot to talk about . Will you come back at some time and do it again with us ?

Speaker 1 44:19

It would be my absolute pleasure , and thanks for having me .

Speaker 4 44:22

Meantime if you want to know more about what Roger does , and apparently does so extraordinarily well . A healthyshiftcom , a healthyshiftcom .

Speaker 1 44:32

And there you have it . Hasn't Tony McManus got the most amazing radio voice , like it's deep and it just talks like that and he's just the most sensational person live . And also Woody Sean Woodgrove he was amazing as well , the man in the booth , and we just had a lot of fun doing that . And I want you to remember , please , it is a pilot episode . If you want to see see Roger , come on .

Promoting Pilot Episode, Seeking Feedback

Speaker 1 44:57

If you want to hear more of that , then please message the radio station and let him know that what you'd like to do is you really , really want this segment , because that's how we get it out there .

Speaker 1 45:10

It was the most humbling experience for me to actually get up on the radio , on the biggest radio station in Australia , and talk to you , the shift worker , because that's all I want to do . I just want to get out there and I just want to help you as a shift worker , and this is a great platform for us to be able to do it . If you enjoyed this episode , be sure to subscribe so you get notified whenever a new episode is released . It would also be ever so helpful if you could leave a rating and review on the app you're currently listening on , if you want to know more about me or work with me , you can go to ahealthyshiftcom . I'll catch you on the next one .