The Challenges of Shift Work

Speaker 1 0:00

Hello shift workers and welcome to episode number 100 of a healthy shift podcast 100 . I absolutely cannot believe that I'm literally here recording episode 100 of this podcast . I wanted to say a humble Thank you to each and every single one of you that listens to this podcast while you're cleaning , while you're working , while you're actually walking . It doesn't matter what you're doing . The fact that you're taking time out of your day to listen to this podcast means the absolute world to me . I'm also truly grateful to the people who have gone to the trouble of actually rating the podcast and giving it five stars , and To you that have taken further time out of your day and actually written a review to help other people that are looking for a Podcast to find it and listen to it . I'm truly , truly grateful to you as well , and I can assure you they make a huge difference . Today's episode 100 . So let's get on with the episode .

Speaker 1 1:09

Shift work can be brutal , but it doesn't have to be . Welcome to a healthy shift . My name is Roger Sutherland , certified nutritionist , veteran law enforcement officer and 24-7 shift worker for almost four decades . Through these podcast , I aim to educate shift workers , using evidence-based methods , to not only survive the rigors of shift work , but thrive . My goal is to empower shift workers to improve their health and well-being so they have more energy to do the things they love . Enjoy today's show and Welcome to today's episode , episode 100 . As I've said before , and I'm really excited to bring this one to you as well Going back a few weeks ago , I actually put a call out on my social media as I was approaching episode 98 and I thought what can I do for episode 100 ?

Speaker 1 2:04

I want to do something really special and I wanted to find someone that it's been with me as in Following me along on the journey , and you wouldn't believe it , but the person that actually approached me is a person that I've known for many years , that actually found a healthy shift , started following a healthy shift , had friends that had been coached by me , ended up being coached by me , kept a massive secret from me , which we had to work very , very hard on to work through this problem that she actually had , which you'll hear her talk all about in the podcast . And also she was with me for 12 months and then has been gone for two years and surprises me with where she's actually at today , two years down the track , and I want you to hear the whole story in this podcast . The growth in this young lady has been Unbelievable , and when I say unbelievable , it has been absolutely Amazing . She was such a pleasure to talk to , so level-headed , and the maturity that she's shown and grown over the last three years has absolutely blown my mind . I know that you're going to really enjoy hearing it .

Speaker 1 3:21

She's an Australian police woman and has done shift work for Just over eight years in two separate shift working roles . So , without much further ado , I want to bring my guest into the show and welcome to the show , mary . How are you ?

Speaker 2 3:38

Good , how are you ?

Speaker 1 3:40

It's fantastic to catch up with you . You're , it's been a long time since we've actually had a chat , isn't it it's been about ? I think it's been two years , is that right ?

Speaker 2 3:48

It's been a long time .

Speaker 1 3:50

It's been a long time , thank you . I put the call out for someone to come on to my hundredth episode and Talk to me about the journey that we had together , and I wanted you in particular because I wanted to navigate Some of the issues that we had while we were actually coach and client , which I'm I'm looking forward to people hearing about , because there's a lot that goes on in people's lives that you don't realize , and even as a coach , it took me a bit of time coaching you to work out where the problem was and what the problem actually was , didn't it ?

Speaker 2 4:24

It sure did .

Speaker 1 4:25

Yeah , you're a sneaky bugger . You actually hit it from me . That's okay . That's okay . Now , miriam , tell us a bit about yourself . Why do you do what you do and what do you do ?

Speaker 2 4:38

So I am an Australian police officer . I I I do it because it's fun . I love my job , it's . I have days where I can't believe I'm getting paid to do what we do . I do genuinely love my job , despite the challenges and challenges that it can present . Yeah , I've been in emergency services for my whole adult career in different , different positions , but yeah , this is , this is where I've landed .

Speaker 1 5:07

Yep , fantastic , and you do enjoy it , and I love hearing I absolutely love speaking to an Australian police officer that he's still currently serving , that he's still loving , absolutely loving their job , and I think that that's a real credit to you with the strategies You've got in place to actually manage yourself , your life and and the job with what you're actually doing . So well done on that , because I think that's really important . Now , how long have you actually been doing shift work for ?

Speaker 2 5:39

I Years . In two months , september is my , my shift aversary will call it shift the verse .

Speaker 1 5:45

I love it .

Speaker 2 5:47

That's that's across two jobs . So before I joined my state police force , I was working in a peripheral Services agency .

Speaker 1 5:57

I was there for five years and then transferred across to Place okay , so you've been doing shift work now for 13 plus years yeah , is that right ? Or eight years ?

Speaker 2 6:08

Ah I .

Speaker 1 6:09

I use eight years all up just work for eight years Okay . Yep , okay , so you've been doing shift work . So how old though we might give away too much there , but give me a ballpark age as to how old you were when you actually started your first working job 23 , okay , early 20s yeah , love it . Yeah . So you were footloose and fancy , free , full of life , living the dream . And then you went into a shift working environment and Were you ready for shift work ? Do you think you were ready for it at all ?

Speaker 2 6:42

Absolutely not not even close .

Speaker 2 6:44

I the the emergency services element of what I started doing I was somewhat ready for . I'd been a volunteer firefighter Since I was 16 . So that element wasn't a surprise . But I I kind of fell into my job because I was . I was looking for a job . I was at uni . I was struggling to find a job that I could get more hours with at balanced uni . I saw that job advertised and thought you know what , I'll just go for it and I got it . It wasn't anyway in the industries that I was looking for at the time . I Sort of applied out of desperation more than anything and I had no idea what was coming for me . If I think back to that young , fresh-eyed 23 year old sitting in the training room my day one , I or the things I could tell her as to what was coming for , just just the impact on the work that we're doing and the hours it will be working . There were some things that could have been said to that , that young , 23 year old me .

Speaker 1 7:40

What would you have actually said to that young 23 , knowing what you know now ? What would you have actually said to that young , just as a pricey ? What would be the first word of advice that you would give young Miriam at 23 ? Run , good luck . Yeah , good luck . Yeah . That's always a good start , isn't it ? I want to talk about that . I'm gonna come back to that , I'm gonna circle right around and I'm gonna come back to 23 year old Miriam at that stage , if we can . So you weren't prepared

Impact of Shift Work on Health

Speaker 1 8:10

for it . How much has shift work over your journey of the eight years ? How much has it actually impacted on your health ?

Speaker 2 9:11

Um , fairly significantly , in both positive and negative ways . I think about probably a year in or just over , I got to the point of my sleep being so poorly impacted , partly due to shift work and partly due to sort of other life stresses just the combination of everything was piling up and I got to the point where , for the first time in my life , I went and saw a psychologist purely because I just was not sleeping and I didn't know how to manage that . So , yeah , about , I'd say , probably just over a year in , I had . I , yeah , I saw a psychologist for three sessions and we spent our entire time focusing on stress management and sleep hygiene . And just to try and get on top of that because I got to the point where I was sleeping , maybe two- three hours a night , waking up constantly , having nightmares , not because of any trauma response , but just everything was piling up ?

Speaker 2 10:04

Yeah , it was just one thing after the other at that point , was that ?

Speaker 1 10:07

12 months that you went and saw the therapist . Was that actually in your first job of shift work or was this in the second job ?

Speaker 2 10:13

Yeah , yeah , it was in my first job , so it was probably maybe just over a year after I'd started as a shift worker in that first job .

Speaker 1 10:20

What sort of strategies ? Do you recall what sort of strategies you were actually told , because sleep is a massive issue for shift workers ? Do you recall , like working on the sleep hygiene , what strategies the therapist worked through with you to help you with that and did it all ?

Speaker 2 10:40

It's real basic stuff that to me now is just common knowledge , which indicates how far education this field has come . It's stuff like not scrolling on your phone before you go to sleep and taking that time to wind down . And it was something that even my mum told me when I was in school is when I was trying to sleep and had all these thoughts flowing through my head about just stuff that was going on , keeping a notepad next to my bed so I could sit up and write down what was in my head so that my brain didn't have to hold onto it because I'd got it out of my head . And that's how I figured I could switch that noise off . Other stuff , like you know , comfy bed , temperature room , those little things that all these years on are just such standard practice .

Speaker 2 11:22

But to me back then I just had no concept of how to get a grasp on everything that was going on and how to manage that come bedtime and more importantly perhaps more importantly , if I was waking up in the middle of the night , how to calm myself down , have to get back to sleep , and doing that was just breathing exercises and again learning how to switch off the noise and deal with whatever had woken me . I still rely well , not go live . But I still default back to those breathing exercises if I am having trouble sleeping and I find that just getting that rhythm for one thing to focus on and bringing my nervous system back down to a nice relaxed state , the two key factors for me staying on top of it . I swear to God , I did not tell Miriam to say that , I swear to God , did I ?

Speaker 1 12:05

No ? No , because you know that this is all part of my coaching and what I actually teach people to do and how to go about it . But I swear to God , to the listeners that are listening to this , that I did not preempt that in any way whatsoever . But it is the simple things that work , isn't it ? It's not the expensive supplements or medications or anything else , because everyone's looking for a magic pill , aren't they , miriam ? But it is literally those simple things , and when you first start , it doesn't work . Does it Like ? When you first start , it doesn't work at all ? No , but it's .

Speaker 2 12:40

Yeah , you've just reminded me . I tried melatonin . I went to my GP and I got a prescription strength melatonin because he can't get high doses in Australia without a prescription . Because everyone at work was like , oh , just try melatonin , it's fine . It's sort of like you sleep , no worries . I tried and it Barely hit the sides . It had zero impact on how much sleep I was getting and the quality of sleep I was getting . It did nothing for me . The stuff that actually had an impact was going to those real , real basic things that are just so , so simple and learning how to implement them regularly and then trusting that they would help and building up just that trust in myself that what I was doing was going to have a positive impact on me . So keep doing it and stick to it , and that stood me in good stead . Instead of taking supplements and stuff . It stood me in good stead just have those good routines and those default settings for eight years now .

Speaker 1 13:32

I love that . I love that so much . And for people listening , take that as a lesson . And it's really important that you do take it as a lesson , because what happens is with people is they run around looking for supplements or they're looking for other strategies , medications but when you haven't got those or you're away from your default position , you actually struggle in a big way , whereas what Miriam's just highlighted to you is very simple that when you have these default practices in place , you fall back to those , and it's like exercising a muscle in the gym that you start off exercising and the more you exercise it , the stronger it actually gets . And that's the same with these kind of practices , so you don't even have to think about it now . It just automatically happens . It's like a computer program If A happens , you just go to B , it goes to C . Right , we do this , we do that . This is what happens in bank and under control . I love that , but we're not taught it , are we ? No one teaches you that and you had to go and seek that yourself .

Speaker 2 14:37

Yeah , I had to go to my GP do the K10 , which is the form to get a mental health bank , because I couldn't afford to pay out of pocket for the psych . So I had to go through all the steps again on the mental health plan and go and say to them I need help . I'm struggling with what I'm doing at the moment . I really need help with this .

Speaker 2 14:55

I need the support , get the referrals , find the psych who I got along with , because I have a particular sort of person who I engage with best and I know that and I had to go through all these steps to find this help because there's always information out there , especially now , but I had no idea where to start with that information . I needed that support person to guide me in the right direction and find these resources and cut out all the noise and the information that says , take supplements , has magic pills to solve this problem , and just point me in the right direction of what was going to work for me . And it took a while , took a couple of months , to get this resource under my belt and then it takes the time after that of building up the practice for it to start to have an actual impact . But yeah , got there in the end .

Speaker 1 15:36

Now I love that as well , because this is a lesson for people that are doing shift work , that are listening , to go and speak to your GP and just have a conversation with your GP , because you can actually get a healthcare plan funded by the government to actually head off in these different directions of if it's a sleep person or if it's a psychologist or what .

Speaker 1 15:57

And I think , given our roles as shift workers , frontline health or first responders , I think we're in a position where we do hold the trump cards that we can get that help , that we need it because we need our first responders and frontline health people working for us , not , and we need to support them and they do and the government does . But all you got to do , you don't have to battle on , and it's no good asking Karen at the office how she goes about it , because the information is probably wrong , isn't it Very much ? So , yeah , that's right , and this is where these bad habits start . So let's go , let's fast forward a little , because we're going to come right back to that at the start . So when did you discover me as a healthy shift ?

Speaker 2 16:43

Probably my first year of policing . Not long after I graduated from the Academy I had former colleagues who engaged your services and they spoke really , really highly of you . And then you , like I knew of you , and then you popped up in my feed and I was like it's broad . So , yeah , not long . I think it was not long . After graduation I thought , well , he's my man to go to , mostly because of the knowing your background and knowing that you've been through it and you are a shift worker . You're not someone who hasn't experienced it , talking about something you don't know about . But yeah , I think my first year of policing yeah , fantastic , that's right .

Speaker 1 17:26

It's important to have someone who has lived it and has got the empathy for it , isn't it ? And we'll talk about that in the coaching , because a lot of people will go to PTs or they'll go to coaches that have they

Shift Work Coaching and Misconceptions

Speaker 1 17:39

think they've got to handle on shift work . They think that they know how to go about coaching a shift worker . Did you have past coaches or experiences with people that have really severely let you down because they don't have that knowledge ?

Speaker 2 17:57

Not directly , because I never actually engaged in this sort of stuff before I just had muddled on by myself up until that point . So I was five years into being a shift worker with no actual support , mostly because I never asked for it .

Speaker 1 18:10

Yeah , interesting , and people don't . And you know why they don't ? Because they don't know . They really , honestly , don't know what to ask for . I find this through my social media as well . Ask me a question and no one asked because people don't know what to ask . They just don't know . So what was it then that made you go ? You know what ? Screw this . I need to . I need , I want some one to one coaching . Where were you at , physically and mentally at that stage where you reached out to Rog ?

Speaker 2 18:40

You know what and you're going to laugh at this Pure , straight up laziness . Yep , I knew what you did , but I didn't actually have an understanding of how how you coached in terms of nutrition . So I reached out to you thinking I was going to get a beautifully written meal plan that was just going to tell me exactly what to do , and all I had to do was stick to the plan . And that was not the case . It pointed me in a completely different direction and took me on a very different journey to what I expected . But yeah , the the thing that made me reach out was just straight laziness . I wanted someone to tell me what to eat and when to eat it , and that was that . And then here we are .

Speaker 1 19:22

And that's not what happened at all .

Speaker 2 19:24

Because I don't do meal plans .

Speaker 1 19:26

I don't do meal plans because , well , other than the fact that a nutritionist is not allowed to write a meal plan , but the bottom line is , I don't personally believe in them because I don't think it teaches people self-efficacy . Because if I wrote a meal plan for Miriam and I said to Miriam , here's your meal plan , you cook this . How long do you think it would have lasted ? Be honest .

Speaker 2 19:50

Oh , maybe a month .

Speaker 1 19:52

Yeah , that's right . At the most it's all too hard . It is all too hard . Are they all to the board ? Yeah , exactly , and not only that , but then you've got to get to the stage where you've got to eat what not what you want , but what you're being told to eat . And who wants that ? And I think this is where our coaching went . Now , when we started coaching , I know you were left to your own devices a bit , because I'm one of those people that gives you the advice , and then what I do is I just step back and watch and see how you're going , because that's my style of coaching and I literally just I think I tell clients at the beginning , not think I know I tell clients at the beginning . I'm your driving instructor .

Speaker 1 20:32

When you first get in your car , when you first learn to drive , you didn't . And the instructor said to you start the car . You didn't even know where to put the key . You had no idea . No one knows where to put the key . They don't know where to start , what to do , and the driving instructors just got to watch what you're doing and how you're going about it and educating you from the very basics . Now , I liked it . Everyone knows how to eat From the time they're a baby . They know how to eat and what they're doing . Well , they should , shouldn't they , miriam ? But not everyone does know how to eat , do they ?

Speaker 2 21:03

No , yes , maybe not .

Speaker 1 21:05

No , some people don't understand that Now . When you first came to me and I'm just going to go into this when you first came to me , what were you doing as exercise at that point in time , and can you just go through what your week looked like ?

Speaker 2 21:22

So it was post-COVID . So we'd just come out of , you know , months and months and months of lockdown and not being able to go to the gym and that sort of stuff , and during lockdown I'd started running because there was nothing else I could do . I've always been a really active person , playing sport and stuff . So I'd started running and then all the gyms reopened and everything was good to go . So by the time we started working together I was playing footy . So I had footy training twice a week , netball and football game . On Saturday . On the days I didn't have footy training , I went to the gym . My gym included usually up to a 5K run as my warmup and then a full weight session . And then on Sundays I'd have an active rest day where instead of running 5K I'd go for a 5K walk instead and just push through after playing football and netball and then for . So I and I was working and obviously active job as well . So my downtime was not very much at that point .

Speaker 1 22:24

And then we looked at what you were reading , didn't we ?

Speaker 2 22:30

So what it

Miriam's Struggle With Disordered Eating

Speaker 2 22:30

?

Speaker 1 22:30

was so just to put things in perspective . So what Miriam's told us is she was going to the gym basically Monday , wednesday , friday and doing a solid hour with 5K is a warmup . She was doing football training on Tuesdays and Thursdays and playing a football game on Saturday , and then she would play a netball game as well and netball training and on Sunday , to relax , she'd take herself for a 5K walk . Now that exercise in itself and I know people are listening to the podcast and they can't see Miriam , miriam's not very big right . And to be doing all of that exercise and to eat under a thousand calories a day is pretty much what we were doing . In fact , there were days there where we were probably not even consuming half of that Were we .

Speaker 2 23:32

No , not even close .

Speaker 1 23:34

Why was that , miriam ? Talk to us about why it was . Because I then learned a lot about you , an awful lot about you , because when we started coaching , I didn't realise how disordered your eating was . I had no idea , because you were telling me one thing , but we were hiding a few things in the background here . So can you talk about all that ? Talk to me about your history in relation to your eating and what it was that you were battling with .

Speaker 2 24:04

Well , I'll start with . I'll start forwards and we're backwards . So when we first started working together , I was doing that level of exercise . I also should add if I didn't have work on Tuesdays and Thursdays , when I had footy training , I'd usually go to the gym that day as well . So I was probably five days five days a week gym on top of all the running and everything else .

Speaker 2 24:23

When I reached out and decided to engage with you , I tracked what I was eating for the first time in , probably the first time , for the week before we had our first check-in , before I started working together , so I could give you a baseline Because I knew that we were going to start working together . That week I was careful with what I ate . I tried to eat well , I tried to eat slightly more than I usually would , just so I could be like here's the brooch , look how good I am . And I thought I genuinely that first week and that first . Here here's our baseline data . I thought I had done so well that week I was like yep , look at me , go , I'm already kicking ass at this coaching thing . And then you calculated what my minimum intake should be and I was horrified . I couldn't believe it and I think that week I think I might have scraped in 1200 calories maybe .

Speaker 1 25:22

Maybe On a couple of days . Maybe , Because you were strictly tracking at that time , weren't you ? Let's be fair , I was tracking everything . This is back in the days when I had clients tracking , and I've moved well away from that now , but I've got some clients that track , but that's for performance purposes as well , which is very different . But I moved away from that . But you were strictly tracking at the time .

Speaker 2 25:47

And that week I tracked properly .

Speaker 1 25:49

Yeah , so it was days there where you were eating somewhere between about 700 calories and 1200 , and your average would have been around about 1000 calories a day . Now I don't know how you were even functioning , to be perfectly honest .

Speaker 2 26:05

Yeah , looking back , I have no idea . Well , I mean , I can see the cues that I was ignoring now . But yeah , I was here , I was averaging maybe 1000 calories a day on all the sets size and thinking I was doing a great job . And then you came back to me that first week , having calculated my maintenance at a conservative two and a half thousand .

Speaker 1 26:26

Correct .

Speaker 2 26:27

Conservative and I just about fell off my chair . I was horrified and I couldn't comprehend how I was supposed to put that much food in my body and still be okay . Like I couldn't fathom , like it was just completely unimaginable to me to eat that much in one day , just did not compute whatsoever .

Speaker 1 26:47

No , that was the battle that I had in a big way . Where did that come from ? Like for someone to be exercising as much as you were exercising and to not be sufficiently eating . Like getting your protein . We started off with you just tracking your protein to increase your protein and , of course , I probably , in hindsight , made a bit of an error there , because we had reasonably high protein to try and preserve the muscle that you were building and what you were working with . So what that did was increase your satiety , and you didn't want to eat , did you ?

Speaker 2 27:19

No , it was so hard to get the food in , not only physically , because it's been so long since I've at that point , had been so long since I'd eaten properly or enough .

Speaker 1 27:29

Yep .

Speaker 2 27:31

Like I just I just didn't have . I felt like I didn't have the stomach capacity to get that much food in it yeah .

Speaker 2 27:36

So it was just in my head . My stomach had shrunk to the size of a walnut and getting that much food in was just . I just felt uncomfortably full for a while Because that physical response took a while to work around . But no , to then jump back maybe . Oh so I got glandular fever at the end of year 12 . So we're talking 13 years ago . From that I lost about 20 kilos just from being sick . So I didn't lose it in a healthy way at all , but it was also of an age where I sort of come into end of puberty and I was going to drop it anyway . But yeah , I dropped about 20 kilos when I had glandular fever and that the impact of having glandular wrote off my immune system .

Speaker 2 28:19

For probably a good five years I really really struggled with my physical health . I was having , I got kidney infections , my liver stopped functioning properly . When I was probably my peak sickness of glandular , which went for about six months , the only things I could stomach were poached eggs and tabooly and occasionally had craver's steak . And my mum got to the point where she'd just go to the shops and buy me like a large tub of tabooly and just constant eggs because she knew that's what I could keep down and if I asked her for a steak she'd get me a steak , because obviously I was feeling good enough at that point to stomach that . But for the majority that's all I could eat for a solid six months . I was all that would stay down . So that's what I survived off and I think now , looking back , that's probably where it started , partly because I'd lost all that weight and even though I was really really physically sick and struggling to function day to day , I was still getting out of bed and going and doing stuff despite being sick and I just for the next five years was on constant antibiotics and stuff just trying to get better and then not to half on .

Speaker 2 29:24

But had a particularly unhealthy relationship at that point as well with my first boyfriend and there was some stuff that happened around that that didn't help my relationship with food .

Speaker 2 29:36

Once that ended , I think that didn't help my relationship with food because I was so stressed at that point that I had to control something and even coming out of the worst of the physical health impact of having glandular fever , I'd now learnt that I could get away with eating not very much and still function and , on the surface look fine . So it became more of a deliberate choice to eat so little . Despite the fact that , weirdly , I had this completely screwed up relationship with food by now , I still had a really good body image and I had nothing to do with the fact that I dropped a whole lot of puppy weight and some more . I started to put it a little bit back on , sort of being healthier , coming out of the tail end of having glandular , but I've always had really really good body image . I've never had an issue with how my body looks . My mum , to her credit , she's got three daughters . She's raised all of us to be really proud of .

Speaker 2 30:30

You know , we've all got six thighs because we play multiple games in netball per week and those thighs let us run and jump and do all the things we do so it was just this car crash in my head of having a really healthy body image compared to a lot of girls my age but at the same time grasping onto this really important thing , which was the one thing at that point I could control , which was how much I ate , and it was I wouldn't say I had a full blown eating disorder . To me , the distinction between eating disorder and disorder eating is really important , especially at this time of my life .

Speaker 1 31:02

Very much .

Speaker 2 31:04

Very , very important to me , to a lot of people . Yeah , I had my relationship with food , just went straight down the metaphorical toilet , not saying I was vomiting literally at that point . Yeah , and I was doing things like I'd go for a few days without eating a proper meal . And then I'd realise and think , oh , people are going to notice , so I'd make a point of eating a full meal in front of people so that people thought like they shouldn't notice because I've eaten in front of them , so why would they think that anything was wrong ? And then I wouldn't eat , for I wouldn't eat a full meal , I'd have like a little snack or something just to keep me going , but I wouldn't eat a full meal until I was around someone again who could observe me eating and eating a normal meal and a normal sized meal . And that was how I got around it and it was a choice . It was a choice I made . I knew that if things happened that I was getting , you know , stressy about . My way of dealing with that stress was to eat less , and some people overeat when they're stressed . I still now , even after all this work and all this time , I know that when I'm stressed I stop eating not stop now , but my food definitely goes downhill . So that's taken . It took me many , many years to realise that that was a problem and that's what I was doing to myself . Coming out of that relationship definitely helped reduce the stress that was prompting that control issue and I part of .

Speaker 2 32:40

The one of the most ironic things about all of this is after I finished high school , my job

Understanding Disordered Eating and Eating Disorders

Speaker 2 32:47

that I was doing was I was a nutrition and fitness coach in a women's gym .

Speaker 2 32:52

So here I am with this munted for one of the word connection with food . Yet every day I'm sitting down with these women who most live and were old enough to be my mum , who hadn't had that upbringing I had had in terms of relationship with bodies and sport and stuff like that , and they were coming to me for help and I was going through their meal plans per week and talking about the issues that they were facing , you know , having to get husbands and kids on board with the meal plan that they were on , which was just a basic , healthy meal plan . Like looking at it now , I'm like yeah , that's a good meal plan , it covers everything , but for these women it was the first time I had this information given to them . So here I am sitting down doing this one on one coaching session multiple times a week , talking to these women about you know how to work around the problems they were having with food and making sure their partners were on board , and here I am not eating like . The irony has never been lost to me .

Speaker 1 33:46

Oh no , but this is not uncommon , though , and this is why we have to be very , very careful what we say to people and how people look or whatever commenting on people , because we really don't know what's going on in the background , and I can guarantee that anybody listening to this podcast that does know you and people will listen to it because they do know you right will have had no idea of any of that that you just spoke about . They would have no idea , and they will be sitting there shocked . And I just want to just cash in on a couple of things here , because they are very , very important things to back over for us at the minute . Number one is when your life is out of control . Out of control and you know you're stressed , or it's your job , or a relationship or all sorts of things . Money , debt , whatever is out of control . The one thing that you can control is food and your intake , and it's a default position for people to go to , because it's one thing that they can control . And , in fact , adhd is one of the main triggers for a needing disorder , and so is that control , because everything's out of control in your life . So , therefore , you can control that , and I know , when I spoke to Victoria Devine about her anorexia , that it was the one thing that she could control . So she controlled it and she didn't realise because nothing else was in control in her life at the time . And I love that you've actually highlighted that , because you recognise that that was one of the triggers for you , that you were able to control it . And boy did you ever control it . And we don't realise how much of an impact that has , because it becomes a disease and it gets worse .

Speaker 1 35:38

And I just want to cash in on two things , or one thing that you flagged as well , going back . Number one was you said it's important for people to understand the difference between disordered eating and an eating disorder . They are two completely different things and you obviously clearly understand that . So when someone says , oh , I had a binge last night , what they've actually done is they've actually just had an episode of over eating , like they've just smashed the pizza when they didn't really want to . You know they've had a cheat meal , so to speak . But disordered eating is something that leads to an eating disorder , and people like yourself , being as disordered as they were , can actually end up being diagnosed with an eating disorder and the eating disorders the main three ones are bulimia , anorexia nervosa and binge eating disorder and disordered eating will lead to those and we need to be very , very careful and get on top of this disordered eating before you go down the line of having an eating disorder , because it is an awful long way back from there , an awful long way back . So , without harping on that , I just wanted to cash in on those two particular points that you made . So you've got a really , really disordered relationship with food at this stage , no doubt about it , and there's a history there as to why it happened . And it isn't until we look back that we realize , oh , this is where it happened and how it happened and what it did .

Speaker 1 37:06

Now I'm just going to blow my own to my own horn here a little bit as well , because I recognize this purely because of the education that I got , the training that I did . I did Dr Jake Linnard and binge eating eating disorders course , and the reason why I did it was because I am not trained to help people with eating disorders . Right , that's a psychologist's job to help with that , but by golly I can recognize what behaviors to watch for in people that if they have problems with their eating , disordered eating behaviors , how to train them and coach them out of that disordered eating . Well , when I say that I can do my absolute best with disordered eating and I did the course with Dr Jake Linnard , and because I wanted to be able to , and be in a position to , identify what behaviors a coach does that forces a person into ending up with a needing disorder , because they actually do do this and it's quite common .

Speaker 1 38:05

So , on that I had my battles with you coaching , and it was to get you to eat right . How did we actually change it ? What , what was it that was ? It was pennies that were dropping that you could start to see . The water was starting to clear for you . How did I help you with that ?

Speaker 2 38:28

some really tough love which , like you , we've known each other for years and I think you know what . I don't know if you were taking the same approach with someone else , but you know that that sort of stuff works for me . Yep , I think it's really important to note that when we started working together , I genuinely and truly thought that I had come out of those awful , awful years and I had recovered my relationship with food and I was doing great , like I hadn't felt a need to control my food in years . I was just chugging along , eating as I felt like it . I am a I'm not a huge junk , I'm a chocolate person , but I'm not a huge junk food person .

Speaker 2 39:05

So I do eat healthily as a generic term , as it was . But I thought that you know what these days I eat , what I want . If I'm stressed , I have other mechanisms in place . I I'm fine , I'm doing great . So then about I think probably about a month in to our coaching , when I was doing my weekly check-ins

Coaching, Progress, and Fueling Performance

Speaker 2 39:27

and clearly not showing any progress towards that conservative two and a half thousand Cal maintenance that I was supposed to be aiming for , I remember getting a feedback video from you asking if I really want to do this and telling me that if I wasn't going to put the work in to to get up to that , that maintenance , then there was no point in me spending my time and , sorry , spending my money and wasting both of our time doing it , and it was just straight up slapping the face .

Speaker 1 39:59

Either get yourself together or there's no point in doing this but if I can just stop you there for a sec , there was a reason . There was a very legitimate reason for that , though wasn't there because I was concerned about the wastage and and to be fair , just so that people listening understand this as well I have known Miriam a long time and I knew how to play her , and this is what comes down . As a coach , I knew that I could basically put her over my knee and spank her backside and say you need to do this or you're going to get in trouble , and for those that went there with their thoughts with that , just stop right . But I knew that I could do that with you because I'd got to know you well enough to know that there's 99% of my clients wouldn't dream of sending a feedback video like that , particularly someone who's bordering on disordered eating , because you could send them the opposite way . Why ?

Speaker 2 40:53

didn't it .

Speaker 2 40:57

I think I just need to hear it . I think it was . I think it was a combination of things . I think it was the fact that we have known each other so long that we do speak very honestly with each other and I have a great degree of trust in you and I trust your education , I trust what you do . It was partly a reaction , I think , from when we did that first week where I thought I'd done so great and you were horrified and I remember you saying . I remember you saying how are you functioning , how are you doing all this ? So I think it was . It was a combination of things , that it . And also I know that tough love may work and you know that too . So I probably wouldn't have heard it as well if it had been maybe a couple of years prior , but I think because I had been the one to reach out to you and engage in this coaching , despite what I thought it was at the time , I think that just showed a degree of readiness to hear what I need to hear and go oh well , I'll see it , I need to do something or I'm just not going to make any progress .

Speaker 2 41:53

I think my goals at that point as well in terms of my body , was I really wanted to get strong and I loved being so active . I love playing football . I've played netball for that since I was seven . So I love sport and I love being active . And I'd gotten to the point the gym where I was no longer just , you know , a casual gym goer . I was getting to the point where I was like I want to be a power lifter and I wanted I want to be this five foot two thing that people are amazed at how much I can lift , and but that that goal and my food just hadn't linked yet and to come to you and say I want to get a power lifting .

Speaker 2 42:33

Help me out , and for you to go well , you need to sort yourself out with your food first was crucial to where I am now .

Speaker 1 42:40

I love that , because one thing I didn't make clear to people was you didn't come to me because you wanted to lose weight and you had a poor relationship with your body . That's not the purpose . The purpose of you coming to me was you wanted to fuel your exercise , and that's where the tough love came from , because I was telling you that you're actually you are actually eating your own muscles to perform instead of building them , and you couldn't get your head around . What do you mean ? Because I'm living , I'm working , I'm doing , I'm feeling I'm doing all of this . So what does that mean ? I don't understand what that means , and you've I think you just summed it up beautifully the two pieces of the jigsaw were not connecting between the food and the performance in the gym .

Speaker 1 43:22

And then it started to really click because we just went with simple basics , didn't we ? And just very and obviously , with a client like Miriam , you don't hit them with you need to eat , and this is drastic , but I don't say to them you have to eat two and a half thousand calories or three thousand calories or whatever it was . I know it was enormous right , because I calculated all of your exercise with what you were doing with against what your job was , with against what you were doing in life . It was massive for what you are , because you're knee hotter with grasshopper and I think , well , not quite , not really , but once you started hitting some PB's in the gym with a bit more fuel , a penny drop , didn't it ?

Speaker 2 44:08

yeah , I , I remember us talking about reverse dieting to get me up to my maintenance yes because again that that number , just I panicked like the tightness in my chest when you were like mmm , actually this is what you should be eating . I was like , oh no , I'm not , I'm not gonna , I'm not gonna do that . So we we count with strategies to work around that panic . And we were just increasing by this .

Speaker 2 44:32

Again , we were tracking at that point because we were , we were eating for performance more than anything yep correct and it was important to track , to know that I was making those increases , otherwise the back slide would have been probably significant and I wouldn't have even noticed it or thought about it . So we were . We talked about reverse dieting and , and that that , to me , was really , really important because , watching the number of my tracking go up , I had to to know that I was doing it for the right reasons and that my body needed it . So we only increased by what ?

Speaker 2 45:06

maybe a hundred cows per week for a while hundred and fifty , just about a hundred and fifty , real , real , real , slow and steady , and we had a big focus on getting that protein back up because I just wasn't getting up in at all , especially with the training I was doing . And just slowly , slowly over the months , and with that trust and that honesty and knowing you tell me when I was being idiot we suddenly we were months down the track and I was eating for 1800 . I reckon I got up to him was like oh , okay , we're doing this .

Speaker 2 45:35

And over that time my strength shot up . Yeah , like I went from being a casual gym goer to a gym rat because I felt good training and my , my strength was going up . I was hitting pay bs and then the more I hit pay bs , the more I wanted to train . So the more I want to train , the more I want to eat . And it just became this awesome cycle to be , instead of being in you know , a flushing at the toilet cycle of everything . I was in in a cycle of up , like yeah and I .

Speaker 2 46:03

I started to notice a difference in my body . I dropped fat , like taking my check in photos . Not that fat's ever been a focus for me .

Speaker 1 46:11

You're leaning in my photos , yeah .

Speaker 2 46:14

I was starting to get ads . Yeah , I could start to see that definition coming out and I started to see these results of my training and not that I trained for aesthetic purposes at all , but I could see the difference in my body and I could see the numbers , because I follow my right down when I'm lifting and to see my numbers going out , my body was changing . I had so much energy , I was and I was just having a great time yeah it was all because we were .

Speaker 2 46:39

We were slow and more careful , and we just started pushing me up bit by bit and just getting up to that comfortable number where my body , my body , went . Oh , we've actually got a few to do what we're doing . Let's go then .

Speaker 1 46:50

I love that and this is the importance of having a coach . On Tutmahorn , again here , it's the importance of having a coach that understands so many different variables and doesn't like when Miriam comes to me and says I want a meal plan for the next 12 weeks and I give her a meal plan and send her on her way . That's not the solution , because you need a coach that can actually be dynamic and help you through . The reverse diet was something that I came up with with you even though your weight was not changing . Nothing was really changing .

Speaker 1 47:21

The secret was understanding a reverse diet and knowing to increase you by about 150 calories every week . So it wasn't so drastic because if I had a set you , you got to come up a thousand . Well , I did . I said you got to come up a thousand , over a thousand , in fact , I think from memory . You had to come up 1500 calories a day , not a week , a day and day . There was no way were you going to be able to do that , so I came up with a strategy that we'd reverse . So it wasn't such a I'm going to use the language it wasn't such a head fuck for you , was it no , no , and it was , I think part of it .

Speaker 2 47:56

Probably importance of that is , if I had had to just suddenly pull 1500 calories out of my ass not literally that would have been so overwhelming that I I know that my stress response would have been to be like no thanks , and do exactly what I always do when I'm stressed to just go completely backwards . Yep , sorry to be able to take those baby steps and slowly start to build and slowly start to see the the effect it had on my body and what I was doing . That . That was , I think , the key to to getting me out of this , this whole that I was still in without realizing , and get me to where I am now , two years later amazing .

Speaker 1 48:37

I love that and I love it , and it's very humbling for me because we're going to get to where you're right now , but we slowly built you up . Your strength went up , your health went up . You don't have the issues with your immunity and things like that . Now you're dominating right , and I just know that because you're fueling this machine that has rewarded you so well for what you've been doing for it now , and your body has been patient through all of those years and has put up with the abuse that you were actually giving it . You know what I mean , and now it's rewarding you so well . I mean you look extremely well and , as I said , we haven't been face to face for over two years and I want people to understand as well too .

Speaker 1 49:27

Generally , as a general rule , with someone with disorderly eating , tracking is very triggering . It can be quite a problem , but the reason why we were using tracking or the reason why I used tracking we were more so tracking protein for Miriam , but we needed to be able to measure and have her measure so that she understood where she was at with her food to keep moving up slowly , ever so slowly , because as the calories were going up , the weights in the gym were going up as well , and that was her goal and that we've got to get results . So it's no good going up 400 calories or going up 500 calories and there's no weight going up in the gym . We need everything to correlate really well , and this is where you've got to understand the science behind it , and that's why it's important to have a coach to do it . So tell me , just praise the up , the coaching experience from your perspective from up until two years ago or even right through to now , but what's your coaching experience ?

Speaker 2 50:34

As in had I had coaching previously or our experience .

Speaker 1 50:37

Our experience . Tell me about my coaching from your experience . You're allowed to stroke my ego just a little bit here .

Speaker 2 50:48

It was .

Impactful Shift Work Coaching Experience

Speaker 2 50:49

I still look back now , two years after we've stopped working together , and if I ever speak to people at work who I know are having trouble managing shift work and the impacts it has on their health , I'm like , go look up Roger on a healthy shift he's meant to go to , so they actually take you up . I don't know , but I still , two years later , I'm telling my colleagues to at least at a minimum follow you on socials because I know , for the way that we interact together , you know how to speak to me and know how to get through me . We I trust you and you tell me what I need to know , so they'll want to hear , but you tell me what I need to hear and for what . Nearly a year of working together you got me out of my very unhealthy relationship with eating . You helped me identify my body's responses to certain things .

Speaker 2 51:47

Something I think is stepping back a little bit is I had been in this hole for so long that I was ignoring really important hunger queues that weren't just the feeling of hunger , and I remember being so surprised a couple of months in to find that my sleep that you know I'd seen a psychologist for years ago . I was sleeping like a log . I'd go to bed out like a light to my laminate in the morning . I wasn't getting through my day feeling constantly dizzy and nauseous , which I had been feeling for so long that I just was used to it and I had . It wasn't there anymore , which increased my energy . My hair and skin were better because my protein intake increased . All this stuff and I'd say this to you in our weekly check-ins like , oh , I noticed this thing about my body today , or this happened and that hasn't happened in years . And you go , yes , because you're getting the food in that your body's been asking you for for years .

Speaker 2 52:46

And I found out our check-ins . Yeah , I , sometimes I would struggle to get them in on a Sunday night because life happens , but you always understand , like , again , it's a shift worker thing and I look forward to seeing down on a Sunday night and doing my video and taking my photos and my measurements and stuff and going hey , rog , look at what I've achieved this week , look at , look at how well I'm doing now . And my return video from you was always cheering me on . It was like I had this constant cheerleader and still still , two years on , I still have this cheerleader who encourages me and and I get to do all this cool stuff because I've been able to sit down with someone who has the knowledge and the experience and the .

Speaker 2 53:30

I think the experience is the important part with all this stuff going on and being a shift worker at the same time making those two things work and still being able to do so well and and be feeling so much better and have that reassurance each week that , yes , we're doing the right thing , we're getting more freedom , we're getting more freedom to do that You're doing well . Sometimes some weeks like I , there was check-ins I gave you where I was just sitting on my bedroom floor at tears because it had been a shit week .

Speaker 1 53:55

Yep , absolutely . Just to say that Miriam's the only client that I've had in four years that does video feedback and gives me video feedback . No one ever has done video feedback at all . You are the only one that's ever done it and you know I absolutely loved it . I loved , I look forward to your videos every week , because when someone does a video as feedback to you , it actually you can see them processing things in their mind . You can hear them . You can see them . You can hear them actually working through their problems as they're talking . You can see it and you still and you can wear that crown you are still the only person that has given me video feedback Every single week and you've done that and I loved it .

Speaker 1 54:49

I thought it was absolutely fantastic because you would talk to me for 15 minutes 10 to 15 minutes and you would talk through what was happening , why , where , what you've done , how you've gone about it . You'd show me things like . You'd show me your diary , what you're writing up , your journaling , what you were doing , how you were going about it all , and you would talk about it and I loved it . I thought it was just .

Speaker 1 55:09

I try and encourage clients to do it . You're the only one that's ever done it , and I think it's it's . Not only is it a credit to you , but it's probably why you got the responses that you got from me , where the tough love was in right areas . But I was your biggest cheerleader as well , in every tiny little thing , and anyone that's been a client of mine that's listening to this will know I never , ever , dwell on the bad things ever . I always , only ever , cash in on the good and harness the good , because no one responds well to the negativity of what's happened , but they do respond very well with a like a pat on the back with what they're doing . So I think that that was it . I probably don't need to ask the next question , but if you look back now , what ? What was it out of the experience that impacted you the most ? Out of the one on one , coaching , what is it that you think has impacted you the most ?

Speaker 2 56:02

I mean repair my relationship with food and learning that I need to fuel what I'm doing is is women . We've helped on about that , but it's it's . I wouldn't be doing what I'm doing today if that wasn't for , if that wasn't for you and the work that we did . So I'll choose something else . I think the routines that we created like there's stuff that we we came up with together that I still

Nutrition and Training for Powerlifting Competition

Speaker 2 56:27

use to this day , and it's things like to get more protein in I I hate Greek yogurt . I think it's weird . So I have normal vanilla yogurt and I add a scoop of vanilla protein to it and mix it in . That's how I get my protein in the morning .

Speaker 2 56:41

And we started doing that together . We came up with that together . It's stuff like when I'd plant .

Speaker 2 56:46

I did my own meal plan when we were working together and I sent you a photo and you'd say you say , add in this change that get you a little bit more protein in . And one of the real basic things was I love smashed avo , as many white girls my age do . It was adding a serve of cottage cheese to my smashed avo . Cottage cheese by itself is the weirdest textured food . Cottage cheese with smath avo . You can't taste it , you don't know . It's the texture , but it adds a whole what 30 grams of protein to my meal .

Speaker 1 57:15

Can do . It's depending on how much you do it , but it's delicious .

Speaker 2 57:17

Yeah , it's great . I was telling one of my friends about that as a meal yesterday and I was saying I still do it . I put my avo in the bowl , I put my cottage cheese in , I mush the whole thing together , bam on a rice cake . We are good to go , my friend .

Speaker 1 57:32

Perfect .

Speaker 2 57:35

And it's those little things that I still do now and they're just so ingrained in me , the stuff that we came up with together and getting that in that is so important now .

Speaker 1 57:47

Yeah , I love that and that's true . And , once again , that's a client-coach relationship working out what's going to work for you . Because if I said to you you got to sit down to three week-bix and some Greek yogurt and a scoop of protein powder and this is it , you would have pushed back against that and it wouldn't have done you any good . But this is where you've got to work with a client and have a look at their food diary and just to make a few little swaps , and then do it again next week , make a few little swaps , and then next week make it a few little swaps , and we keep going along with that and I love that . And I'm very humbled by what you've said there as well , and I do sincerely appreciate that .

Speaker 1 58:24

So let's go to . Where are you at now ? Tell me , because I'm actually going to learn this at the same time what are you actually doing now that you know ? Would you be eating two and a half thousand calories a day ? What are you doing ? Are you still playing sport ? Are you lifting ? I know you've sent me messages now and again , you know , so I've got a little bit of an insight , but let me know what you're doing .

Speaker 2 58:45

So you've actually got me at a very , very interesting time . So in two days I've got my first powerlifting competition .

Speaker 1 58:53

My God really .

Speaker 2 58:55

That's incredible . I was going to do one back in July but my back wasn't up to the training I need to do , so I had to work on that injury . So yeah , finally , finally at a point where I'm happy with my lifts , that I've always had this number in my head , that I've always said I wouldn't compete to like hit a certain point of strength , I finally got it . Knowing that I've had this comp coming up for about the past I want to say 12-ish weeks my focus has been my food and the . I've sort of , over the past couple of years , gotten more and more into the world of powerlifting and that sort of stuff and typically in that world , what I've been doing would be called a bulk . I'd call it a feed . Instead . I'm feeding my body from what I'm doing , yep , yep , and I am going to the point where I'm looking forward to doing a mini-cut after this comp because I'm getting to the point where I'm like I'm a little bit fluffy , but I am lifting so much and I'm comfortable with it , like the .

Speaker 2 59:59

I haven't been tracking while I've been doing this bulk , but I would guess I'm probably sitting up around 2000 easily , if not 2.5 . I'm not running as much Right , I'm not . I did my knee 10 weeks ago , so I'm not playing netball for spring , yep , so I'm not doing as much cardio . So I've sort of balanced out in my head my intake and it's working for me . Like my lifts have just gone through the roof . I was doing a new training program as well , which really helped , and those two things in concert have just . I'm so excited for this comp , I'm so excited .

Speaker 1 1:00:37

You're ready , aren't you ?

Speaker 2 1:00:40

I am , I'm really , I really am . It's been such . I've been saying I was going to do it for the past five , well , at least three years .

Speaker 1 1:00:45

Yep .

Speaker 2 1:00:46

I'm finally doing it , so yeah .

Speaker 1 1:00:50

I just want to stop you there for a sec and to people listening honestly and sincerely . That's the first time I've heard that and I just want to say how unbelievably proud I am of you that you've taken on board over the time , over the journey , and it makes me think back to what did I say , what did I do , how did I go about it . But it probably come down to that four-week check-in when I went back to you with the Tough Love and said if you want to do this , this is what you need to do , or we are wasting our time . And it's funny , isn't ?

Speaker 1 1:01:20

it Because here we are three years down the track now and look at you . In two weeks you're doing your first pay-all , lifting competition , fueling it and loving the fact that you're fueling it .

Speaker 2 1:01:31

Yeah , I think for me that Tough Love was probably step one to getting to Saturday's comp . And yeah , it's taken me a long time . It took us a full year of coaching , so it didn't take me another two years to get my training to a point that I'm happy with it and ready to compete . It's also like I blew out my knee 10 weeks ago and the first thing I did was when I got home in a splint couldn't straighten my leg like I knew I'd done my ACL . The first thing I did was sit down and look up nutrition to promote healing post-injury . And I messaged you and I was like Rog , I've blown out my knee , how do I help myself heal ? With food . And it was the first thing I did was go to food , because I know that food is important to soft tissue healing .

Speaker 1 1:02:21

I love it .

Speaker 2 1:02:21

Sorry , I was like well , it's not just about the physical recovery , it's about what I'm putting into my body to help myself recover as well . So when I did my knee , that's when I started to take creatinine again , because I'd not deliberately stop taking it , but I kind of forgot to keep taking it . So the day after I did my knee , creatinine and I mixed it into my yogurt and protein mix . I'm now on five grams of creatinine a day again , like I should have been .

Speaker 2 1:02:43

But it was just stuff like that and having the , not only the resource , but being . I think it's really important to acknowledge the fact that I'm so comfortable with eating for a palatine comp . I think people who don't live probably underestimate how much power is it . And I'm by no means a professional . This is an amateur comp and it takes a lot of freedom to be able to do that .

Speaker 1 1:03:08

Now I just want to stop you there again , because I remember in our coaching because you've just reminded me we actually went through your Instagram and you started unfollowing Fitzbo's and following powerlifters that were showing what I ate in a day and things . So the impact of that is not underestimated , is it ? That's huge , because by doing that , it stopped you from under-reading and thinking that that was what you needed to do to then understand it , because I remember you coming in , going I follow this person and I follow this person . Oh my God , they did what I ate in a day and I can't believe what they ate and I would say , yeah , that's right , they're fueling themselves and I think that that was probably a key as well , changing what you were seeing every single day on your social media . Is that a fair comment ?

Speaker 2 1:04:00

Yeah , and I think we could do a whole separate podcast on what's shown on social media and the whole what I ate in a day thing .

Speaker 2 1:04:10

But it is so important and I am notorious for comparing myself to others as well , and I know that that in a way , fuels my competitive nature because I'm like , well , I want to be better than that person , so I've got to work to it . But I made a deliberate decision to unfollow women who didn't look like me and I'm talking like no shade to them . These girls are hot , but girls who are tall and slender and have minimal belly fat and small boobs and all these things that I just wasn't seeing myself when I'm looking at my feed . And so I made a deliberate choice to well , play with the algorithm a little bit and start looking at bodybuilding , powerlifting stuff on Instagram . I started getting more suggestions and I made a deliberate choice to follow accounts of women who look like me and I'm talking short , like I'm five foot two if I sound like a real straight , short , solid , muscular , athletic women who have got thick thighs and butts and boobs and still look so athletic .

Speaker 1 1:05:22

Athletic . That's what it's about . Athletic .

Speaker 2 1:05:25

Yep , they're not shredded but they're muscular and they are fit and they eat . And when those women post you know a day in my day of my food , I think it's really important to acknowledge that one person posting what they eat in a day doesn't mean you can copy and paste that and make it be yours .

Speaker 1 1:05:41

Absolutely , and that's good knowledge .

Speaker 2 1:05:43

I was watching these and I was watching these girls who are doing all this cool stuff and lifting bullshit amounts of weight for small women eating , and that that for me , it wasn't a learning moment , but it was just reinforcing what you and I spent a year working on , and that's that , to do all the things that I wanted to do and hit the goals that I had for myself , I had to learn to eat and I had to learn to feel my body properly . And social media is a very powerful tool and I use it to my advantage .

Speaker 2 1:06:14

And it's the mental game of that has really , really helped .

Speaker 1 1:06:18

I love that and that is so important for people to understand that that social media does have a massive impact on our mindset . We don't realize just how much of an impact it has that when you're going to bed at night and you've had a shit day looking at fixed bows and you know skinny bitches with big boobs and you know massive glutes and and their skin is and that's not what you're after . You want to power lift , so you got to follow people that you want to be . It's like me now I follow business people and wanting to learn about business and things like that it changes your mindset altogether .

Speaker 1 1:06:52

I want to move on a little because I'm just so proud of you and I'll speak to you about this over the next coming weeks anyway because I'm just truly humbled and so proud of you to get to your stage that you're at now with such a great relationship with food . You're fueling your competition . You now turn to nutrition for healing . I think that's not he'll not , not as in stress eating , but you're turning to it to heal , to heal your body , because your body rewards you for that and you've learnt that . I want to go back to back to the beginning , if I can just circle back around , because I want to go back to education for shift workers and what we should be doing and when we should be doing it , Because I know when you started in your Australian policing agency were you educated on how to go about nutrition and shift work .

Speaker 2 1:07:46

To a small degree , yep , partly because of my own education . Like as I said , I was a health fitness coach . I did psych

The Importance of Shift Work Education

Speaker 2 1:07:53

and health science at uni , so I did have a degree of knowledge in that field , not specific to shift work , but I'd sort of come up over the years , I'd come up with my own ways to work around it and my small amount of knowledge that I had was 1000% more than everyone else in my squad .

Speaker 1 1:08:11

Yep .

Speaker 2 1:08:12

Because they hadn't come from a shift working background . Most of them hadn't come from a shift working background and they were a mirror of the 23 or me in that training room on day one of being a shift worker and they had no idea what was coming for them .

Speaker 1 1:08:23

No .

Speaker 2 1:08:24

So the education there is just non-existent .

Speaker 1 1:08:27

Now you're going through the academy enjoying all the day shifts Some of them , but they've got no idea . I know they've got no idea .

Speaker 2 1:08:35

That wasn't the summer five years .

Speaker 1 1:08:36

You're loving it because you've done shift work for so many years and you're just enjoying the fact that you've got a day job for at least 20 odd weeks . But now here we are . Yep , but yeah , fantastic , that's good . So how would you educate ? Like it's one thing , like because you're only told that to start off with and then you're not told anything afterwards . There's no conciliate consolidation of that knowledge moving down the track , and when you're taught in the academy , it is literally just another lecture , isn't it ? And everything just goes in and out and that's the end of it , other than you hang on to some of the things , not all of it , because you know the on the job . Learning actually happens when you're out and actually on the job . And I think when would you , knowing what you've gone through in your last your career so far , when would you educate and how would you educate and what ? How would you reinforce it to consolidate it for people ? Because it truly is beneficial , isn't it ?

Speaker 2 1:09:31

Oh yeah , hugely . I I think it's really important to start your shift working life with tools in your toolbox .

Speaker 2 1:09:41

Yep , we did three psych-focused sessions at the Academy at different points in our training program that had different focuses and all that was around trauma response and the also prevalent illness of post-traumatic stress disorder within emergency services workers . Because we see things , our brains are designed to see and that to me I was amazed at how far the agency has come to . That is now written into the foundation training program how those three psych sessions about critical incident stress and how to manage PTSD . That's awesome . We've come a really , really long way for that to just be an accepted part of our training now .

Speaker 1 1:10:25

Yep .

Speaker 2 1:10:26

I think the next step is to also put in some sort of shift working wellness and wellbeing session at that foundation stage , so that we've got all these people who don't necessarily have shift working backgrounds who , when the reality of shift work hits them like a truck as it will , they can go . Oh , that's what they meant . Okay , I'll go back to these really basic skills that I was taught back . Then they always say default back to your training for everything that we do . So I think to have it at the start would be really important , just to create that toolbox .

Speaker 2 1:11:00

I don't think it would necessarily have the same impact that it would a couple of years in , because , again , people coming to shift work don't know what's coming for them . So I think it'd be really good to be a continued education thing and have you know here's what's coming for you . You don't know it yet , but when you realise here's what can help , can help find your things that do . And then when we go back to the academy in 18 months , hey guys , how's being a shift worker gone for you ? You like a truck ? Cool . And just to constantly have that reinforcement in at a training level , at a station level , amongst your peers , like we run . Oh God , how many e-learning courses have we done I ?

Speaker 1 1:11:41

know this and just get through the videos and say yep , yep , I paid attention .

Speaker 2 1:11:46

And to run like in person sessions and that sort of stuff of just checking in with each other and seeing

Thriving in Shift Work

Speaker 2 1:11:52

what impact the shift work is having on our ability to function day to day and how can we work around that . How can we go from as , as you say , most shift workers are surviving , how can we go to thriving in shift work ?

Speaker 1 1:12:06

Do you believe that you can thrive ? I ?

Speaker 2 1:12:08

think it's an ongoing thing , hell yeah .

Speaker 1 1:12:12

Because I , as you know , my motto is learn how to thrive , not just survive , and I stand right behind my product . I really do . I stand well and truly behind my product and I'm more than happy to say that you can thrive , not just survive , while working shift work Because we understand science tells us about the biological impacts , no doubt , and we know , if you let it get hold of you , but if you do take proactive steps to put little things in place and you don't have to spend money to put the things in place , obviously , to have a coach to guide you around your personal situation and be dynamic enough to work around it . Because we had to work around a lot with you , and I mean a hell of a lot with you , really , and look at where you're at now thriving , absolutely thriving in what you're doing , and I'm so fiercely proud of you for that . So I do stand behind my product that what I sow in your brain at the time will manifest and it will continue to grow and grow and grow .

Speaker 1 1:13:12

It's like planting a seed and off it goes , and that's why I believe also having someone like myself that's got the credibility of having done it for so long and is relatable and can use the language that you need . To hear around what it is and teach you is so imperative and that's as I said , you can thrive . There's no doubt about it that you can thrive , because all the past research has been done without people having the knowledge as to how to go about it . And I firmly believe that in years to come , in 20 years , 30 years , down the track , with the knowledge that's going out now about how to go about it , like the night shift , fast and getting early light , movement and hydrating and so on and so forth I do believe that shift workers will become a lot more healthier in the workplace . And I think , do you agree , that organisations should be paying for this training to their troops to keep them at work ?

Speaker 2 1:14:09

Absolutely . I think there's a lot of things that could be done better at an organisational level for not just the agency I work for , but all agencies Yep .

Speaker 1 1:14:18

I agree totally .

Speaker 2 1:14:19

Would hugely , hugely improve the overall wellbeing of their employees and things like having like yes , we've come a long way in terms of support and conversation around PTSD and trauma and that sort of stuff , but I think we're still a long way to go on that , oh , we do .

Speaker 2 1:14:41

Yeah , we've got the resources available , but it's reliant on the person who's possibly in the darkest days of their life actually picking up the phone and making that call , whereas I think if we put in place some sort of regular mandatory sit down and have a discussion or to sit in the room in silence , it's given to you and you can choose to engage rather than having to pick it up , and I think that the education around nutrition and shift work , the routines we can create to ease the impact on our bodies , I think that's on the same bar as managing our mental health .

Speaker 1 1:15:12

Yeah , I agree .

Speaker 2 1:15:13

And then a two and two go hand in hand . If your physical health's good , then it's so much easier to handle the stuff that's get thrown at us and then , if you're feeling good , you can eat better and we're not reliant on junk food , my sleeping better , all this stuff is just really , to me as an eight year shift worker , it's really basic and it's something that organizations could do to improve our lives at work and away from work , and then they'd reap the rewards in terms of productivity and morale and just people enjoying their work . We've got a critical retention problem at the moment . Maybe that wouldn't be such a big deal if we actually had some support around our lives and to balance our work , the whole work life balance , Maybe it wouldn't be such a big deal .

Speaker 1 1:15:57

Yeah , I could not Everything that you've just said . There is an absolute grab for social media , because I could not agree more . 100% agree with you on that , because one thing that people don't understand , particularly about policing , is you have to have more of a life outside of it than you do inside of it . You've got to have good support , friends , people around you , not to talk about work all the time , but to have something that you can do that takes your mind away from it . You've got your powerlifting and you're in a powerlifting group of people and you'll have a coach and you've froth it . You love doing what you're doing there , so you've got that as a balance in your life . I think I could honestly say this now .

Speaker 1 1:16:44

If someone said to me , when you walk through the Academy Gates on day one , what advice would you give someone on their first day ? And I would say don't make the job your life as in . Make sure that you're there for the eight hours or the overtime , but you're there for the eight hours , the 16 really solid hours that you can make an awesome life out of as well , and try and put the boundaries in place between the two , because I think that's the solution to protecting your mental health in a very , very big way , because you'll find that the people that really suffer are the ones that are in these groups , these chat groups , and they're living the job outside of work . All the time you watch you can see them actually crashing . They're bitter , they're very negative , they're literally a cancer on the job . But the people that go hunting , fishing , shooting bloody , have got power lifting , weight lifting , like to ride a bike , love running , love doing all of these sort of things . You don't see them suffering , do you ?

Speaker 2 1:17:51

Not as much .

Speaker 1 1:17:53

Not as much . I mean , they're still exposed . We're still not wide that way , but we've got a better coping strategy in place . Merriam , is there anything that we've not discussed so far that you would like to add to what we've talked about ? I think going into the mental health was a good touching point , but is there anything else you'd like to discuss that you'd like to add ?

Speaker 2 1:18:16

I just can't stress enough , especially for someone starting shift work , how important it is to get a handle on good routines and habits from the start so that when you've got a quick changeover and you're running a three hour sleep , or you've had the worst job of your life to shift before and you still want to go to work the next day when your brain is just so overwhelmed that you can't handle what's going on , you've got good default factory settings to fall back onto .

Speaker 1 1:18:43

Fantastic .

Speaker 2 1:18:44

I cannot stress that enough .

Speaker 1 1:18:47

And I think that's a really , really good way to finish it off , and having your coach , obviously , to guide you through that , that gets it with empathy is another way , and it's prepared to take out the big stick and put you over there and give you a spank every now and again . Not that way , but the other way . All right Now , miriam , I've just won billions of dollars and I'm going to build

Building a Holiday House on Sardinia

Speaker 1 1:19:10

you a holiday house to say thanks for coming onto the podcast .

Speaker 1 1:19:13

You spoil me . I know I do spoil you . Now I'm going to build it anywhere in the world , but you've got to live in it for six months of the year . You have to . Now you can go by yourself , you can take your partner , you can do whatever you want , but where would you like me to build it or buy it for you ?

Speaker 2 1:19:31

I've been pondering .

Speaker 1 1:19:32

Yes .

Speaker 2 1:19:35

And I think that I would be best suited on a sunny beach with a non-alcoholic cocktail in hand , because I don't drink in , like Southern Italy .

Speaker 1 1:19:49

Yeah .

Speaker 2 1:19:50

Partly because the Italians know how to make food and partly because the fact that you say I've got to live there for six months . I have always said the day I win the lottery is the day that I spend my years chasing the sun . I'll spend six months in Europe somewhere . I spent six months back in Australia . So if you can park me on a beach in Southern Italy where I can jump in the water whenever I want and just live my best life , you've set me up .

Speaker 1 1:20:13

Well , I've got an even better spot for you . I'll take it one step further only because it's a blue zone , which means there's longevity in life . So we'll park you on Sardinia , if that's okay . The island of Sardinia . You know what ?

Speaker 2 1:20:26

I think I can handle it you handle that . You're really pushing me , but I reckon I can take it .

Speaker 1 1:20:29

Okay , we'll park you on an island in Sardinia for longevity , because it's shown that they live longer there . They're one of the seven blue zones . So there you go , sardinia . It is . Miriam , I'm just so grateful for what you've said and thank you so much for coming on the podcast . I do sincerely , sincerely appreciate you sharing your time . I was , I got goosebumps when you told me that in two weeks time you're competing , doing a powerlifting comp and you're fueling it and you feel a bit fluffy , but so be it , because you're fueling the lift . That impacts massively on me as a coach . It really does , and I'm truly humbled that you've taken what we put in place and you've literally just slowly let it snowball to where you're at today . And , on behalf of everybody , we absolutely wish you all the best and you will have the support of all of us going into that comp in two weeks time .

Speaker 2 1:21:25

Two days .

Speaker 1 1:21:26

Two days .

Speaker 2 1:21:27

Two days Since , since Sunday .

Speaker 1 1:21:29

Okay , you're ready . Two days , it's not two weeks . I'm ready . I'm ready for it . Okay , so it will be tomorrow for those that are listening to it , on the day this one comes out , but other than that , we'll get an update and I'll I'll fill you in on the update for it , miriam . Thank you so much . I do appreciate you .

Speaker 2 1:21:46

Thank you , raj . Thank you , I wouldn't be doing this comp without you . So I think where I'm at today is a testament to you . So I do . I know I said when we start working together how much I appreciate all that you do and the effort you put into your education , especially around women's health . So you know you're there . You're there when I win it .

Speaker 1 1:22:06

Isn't she fantastic ? Like honestly , now I'm going to be fair and let you know , miriam knew the questions that I was going to ask her , but we went way off script and I had absolutely no idea of what she was going to answer . So the fact that she has told you , brutally and from the heart , exactly what it's like to be coached by me is very , very humbling , and I was really quite taken back as she was talking to me as well . Now , honestly , there's never a better time to start than now . I don't care how old you are , I don't care how long you've been doing shift work , for If you haven't started shift work , or you have started shift work , or you're five years in , 10 years in or 20 years in , you can make a difference , and this is the importance of actually having a coach a coach that gets it , a coach that has empathy , a coach that is more than happy to work in with your work life , your social life , your home life , and assess it and make a difference to you and how you can go about doing what you're doing in your shift working life . You've heard what Miriam said . She's told you that you can actually thrive and not just survive while you're working shift work and it is absolutely true . There are people there and you know them those people that you work alongside that still go to the gym that look fantastic . That takes work , but it takes little bits and pieces and it takes someone that has some understanding and some empathy to help you to get through that .

Speaker 1 1:23:40

So what I want to do is I just want to let you know that I'm open to coaching and I coach clients one to one . All you got to do is go to my website , ahealthyshiftcom . Ahealthyshiftcom . Just go to the website and what you can do is you can literally just go up the top there and go to the coaching link , and the coaching link will tell you all about my coaching and what there is that you can actually do or how I go about helping you with the shift work side of things .

Speaker 1 1:24:10

It is really important and I cannot emphasize it enough how important it is for you to make a

Transform Your Shift Working Life

Speaker 1 1:24:16

massive difference to your shift working life before you're climbing out of a very deep and very dark hole . So give me a call . Let's have a chat and see how I can help you . Thank you for listening . If you enjoyed this episode , be sure to subscribe so you get notified whenever a new episode is released . It would also be ever so helpful if you could leave a rating and review on the app you're currently listening on . If you want to know more about me or work with me , you can go to ahealthyshiftcom . I'll catch you on the next one .