Preventing Burnout for Shift Workers

Speaker 1 0:00

You can set thousands of boundaries and never stick to them . So what I try to do is try and set like three non-negotiables . We do have sergeants saying to us can you say late tonight ? And sometimes people just say , yeah , fine , like it's my job , I'm going to stay late , Whereas if you know I've put on this week that I'm going to the gym three times and tonight it's actually my gym night you are more likely to say , well , actually , no , I need to actually go and do this thing , and it's so important in terms of setting these non-negotiables to not overwhelm yourself . If you're making sure that you've got three , it means that you've got that bit of flexibility .

Speaker 2 0:41

Shift work can be brutal , but it doesn't have to be . Welcome to a healthy shift . My name is Roger Sutherland , certified nutritionist , veteran law enforcement officer and 24 seven shift worker for almost four decades . Through this podcast , I aim to educate shift workers using evidence-based methods to not only survive the rigors of shift work but thrive . My goal is to empower shift workers to improve their health and wellbeing so they have more energy to do the things they love . Enjoy today's show and welcome to today's episode of a healthy shift podcast .

Speaker 2 1:21

I get great delight and great pleasure in welcoming you to today's episode of the show , where I have a special guest , natalie Alton . Now Natalie is a detective in the UK police and she is working now in the space of educating shift workers around burnout . It's a really , really important discussion that we have this one at the moment , with so many of our frontline health and emergency services suffering from severe burnout , and what we wanted to understand today was what is burnout ? We hear the term all the time , but what actually is burnout ? We hear all about it . Let's break that down Now . What has the greatest impact on burnout , and what relationship does our home life and our work life have in impacting on our burnout and how do we put boundaries in place between both of those . It's a really interesting chat , this one , and I'm really looking forward to bringing it to you , and I think you'll get great value out of it from Natalie Alton . So , without much further ado , let's go on with the show . Welcome to the show , natalie Alton . How are you , nat ? Oh ?

Speaker 1 2:34

thank you . Yeah , I'm good . Thank you , how are you ?

Speaker 2 2:36

I'm very ,

Burnout in Police and Emergency Services

Speaker 2 2:37

very well Now . We've caught you very early in the morning here and I just want to say , from all of the people that are listening thank you for taking the time to come on and tell us about your topic that I've been busting to speak to you about because it is such a prevalent topic at the moment , isn't it ?

Speaker 1 2:53

Yeah , and thank you for having me on . I really appreciate it , and it's nice to share my experience and some ideas to everyone , because it's so not spoken about in the police force either .

Speaker 2 3:03

Absolutely . Can you please introduce yourself , Natalie , and tell us a bit about what your background is ?

Speaker 1 3:09

Yeah , no worries . So obviously my name's Natalie , I'm 25 and I currently work as a detective . I was a direct entry detective and I'm not sure if you have that where you are , but basically what that means is that I joined the job not going through the response route , so I joined the job actually as a detective and trained solely as a detective .

Speaker 2 3:30

Wow , that's interesting . So the police department here . It started at the very bottom and work all the way through , but I have actually seen some of this on the social media at the moment . Do you think it works ?

Speaker 1 3:41

Yeah , it's a very controversial topic , I think I think it does work . We have some amazing detectives that do come through the direct entry route . It's a bit of a controversial subject .

Speaker 2 3:52

It's worked for me , so that's all I can say really , there you go and that's all that matters , isn't it ? You are a current serving member at this point in time . Your specialty at the moment is helping the police or any shift workers with burnout . It doesn't matter who it is . We're all suffering from burnout at the moment and it's very , very prevalent , isn't it ?

Speaker 1 4:11

Yeah , it's ridiculously prevalent and it's not spoken about enough for everyone in the police and not even in the police emergency services , even just normal jobs . It's very likely that you will get burnout at some point in your career .

Speaker 2 4:26

That's absolutely a fact , because the very nature of it and we're gonna get into the nitty-gritty , because I've been looking forward to speaking to you about this to help people with just some simple strategies to be able to work through , because I think it's really important that we try and stop people from getting to burnout instead of trying to recover , because it's a long way back from burnout , isn't it ? Like , once you are burnt out , it's a much more difficult road to get back from than putting strategies in place to try and prevent that burnout , isn't it ?

Speaker 1 4:58

Yeah , 100% , and when ? Personally , when I joined the job as a shift worker , I didn't actually realise that my life would have to change to the extent that it has . I think people need to recognise when they join doing shifts or working in the emergency services , their life is gonna change and they should put strategies in place to make sure that they can still do their job alongside having a fulfilling life really .

Speaker 2 5:22

I think that's really really important as well . How long have you actually been working in the job ?

Speaker 1 5:27

I've only been in the job for three years , so some people might look at me as a bit of a novice , but I just look at my colleagues that have been there for 30 years and think how the hell are you still doing what you're doing ? I'm quite a newcomer to , obviously , the police and things like that , but I feel like where I'm quite young , I do realise you do take a step back and think , oh my God , like what ? Because everyone's been in the police force for so long and they're so ingrained in the way they work so it's not until me coming in as a new person . Being like this is just not right , like people aren't working to their optimum standard really .

Speaker 2 6:06

I totally subscribe to what you're saying there as well , and I think , being 25 and coming in now with fresh eyes , a fresh look and understanding , you've come in and you're looking at it . I think we need to value what's actually occurring and what you're doing . I think that's super important , that we actually acknowledge that , because you are coming in with fresh eyes and you are looking at it . Before you started the shift work , all you wanted to do was be a detective , and you've gone in as a detective into the police in the UK . Were you prepared for what was to come when it came to shift work ?

Speaker 1 6:42

I knew it was hard . Some people do come into the job and they're very naive and they think it's going to be a nine to five , monday to Friday , and they have a bit of a shock . I wasn't like that . I knew what I was coming into . I don't think I've realised how much of a toll on your life it actually has and how much you do have to work hard at it to balance your home life with your work life . So yeah , I kind of didn't know what I was coming into . But I don't think anything really can prepare you for what you're going to not only experience physically doing the shifts and things like that , but also what you're going to see . You always think I'll be fine , but then you might not be because you've seen something quite traumatic that actually affects you . So it's all a big learning curve as you go along .

Speaker 2 7:29

Yeah , I totally agree with that . Now , burnout is actually a word that we hear a lot about , all right , and particularly now . So can you just tell our listeners exactly what you define as burnout ?

Speaker 1 7:41

So burnout basically is like extended physical and emotional exhaustion . So you're absolutely exhausted , you've got nothing left to give , and it often happens when it's a long term exposure . So obviously people get burnt out day to day . But when you're doing that absolutely every day , you're exhausted in yourself . You will then eventually get burnt out , and it does happen in stages . So at the beginning of burnout you're not going to realize that you're going to be getting into burnout , because you'll be in that honeymoon phase . You'll love your job , you'll be so super motivated to work hard . But then that way of working does take its toll later on , where you will get out into extreme burnout .

Speaker 2 8:23

When people first start like that first 12 months or two years , I think it's all so exciting and everything's just so much fun . And but what we don't realize is it's from those moments that we're starting to fill our cup , aren't we ? Until the cup gets to the stage where it just topples over . So , for myself , getting to the stage where it's been like almost 39 years for me now . So it's a long time and we have to put strong strategies in place to prevent it . So , in your opinion , natalie , what is the biggest impact on burnout in front light and health and emergency services workers in particular ?

Speaker 1 8:59

I think in reality it's the long shifts and obviously the shift work pattern . The long shifts are a nightmare because it's really impacting your sleep , your rest , your time at home and obviously a lot of the time you never know when you're going to get off work . So all of that takes a toll on not even your physical wellbeing , your emotional wellbeing as well , because it's obviously disappointing when you've done such a long shift and I don't think the public really realize how long our long shifts are . I've done 22 hour shifts as a standard shift because you just can't walk away and it's those things that tie you to the job that make it really hard to make sure that you're looking after yourself .

Speaker 2 9:42

Actually living in the job , I think , is the biggest problem that people have , without any doubt whatsoever , and I think you've flagged what is really , really important that the public don't get . Now , when you are dealing with something like a homicide , you literally start and just keep going , don't you ? And you don't stop because you just keep , like a dog chasing the bone . You just keep on going , keep on going until you pretty much get to the stage where you can walk away , because the first 24 hours is just integral , isn't it ?

Speaker 1 10:11

Yeah , literally 100% and it's even like when you have somebody in custody , you can't just walk away , and people outside the job even my partner , it's like well , why can't you hand that over ? Why can't somebody else deal with it ? You're not the only police officer and it's maybe it's a personal thing . That's your job . It's like your baby . You want to make sure that it goes right and you get the best result , but also it's you can't walk away . The time's ticking down , you can't walk away and unfortunately it's just the way it is and people find that quite hard to deal with it . Personally , myself , it's so frustrating when you're late of work all the time .

Speaker 2 11:44

I agree and what you've said , probably one of the biggest relationships between that and burnout is the lack of understanding and the pressures that the people outside of our job are actually doing . They don't understand it . You're feeling like you have to justify it , feeling like you've got to justify why you've been at work for 22 hours or 24 hours , justifying why it is . You can't just hand that over , because people are not actually in that situation , so they don't get it . And this causes a lot of frustration as well and , in fact , it impacts severely on a lot of relationships , because people say to you oh , I can't do this If you're going to be disappearing off to work and going . It's a lack of understanding , isn't it ?

Speaker 1 12:27

Yeah , 100% , and I think that's really key to have good people around you , although they will never fully understand , no matter how many times I explain to my partner , my parents , this is what I do , I love it , but it causes me burnout and I'm stressed about it . They're like well , why don't you leave them ? But you need to make sure that you have people that are supporting you and also it's so important , I think and this is why I start my page really is to support each other . Police officers get police officers . Emergency service workers get emergency service workers , and we need to make sure that we're all sticking together , we're all talking , we're all being open and we're all being honest , because if we're not being open and honest in our organisation , how the hell are you meant to cope outside , at home , with people that don't understand you and what you're doing ?

Speaker 2 13:14

And also what it does do is it makes you feel like you're not the alien as well , doesn't it ?

Speaker 2 13:19

Everybody is having these issues and having these problems all the way in every relationship .

Speaker 2 13:25

Now , we know that there's a lot of police that are with police , or nurses that are with doctors and nurses , and we do have a lot of that , and they do understand the role and what actually happens right the way through . And it makes it a lot easier , like my daughter and her husband are both in the job and they're both in positions where they literally understand each other's side . But it doesn't mean that it's any easier because one's going to work , one's coming home from work , one's on leave , the other one's not . One's on night shift , the other one's on day shift , the other one's on wake up and the other one's on leave , and that creates burnout in itself , doesn't it ? When you get frustrated that you can't actually spend time with your partner , when we have situations where we have family functions and oh , I've got to work , that becomes burnout as well , because if it continually occurs to you , you become depressed that you're not actually able to join your partner at functions . Is that right ?

Speaker 1 14:20

Yeah , and I also think one of the biggest problems is that people forget themselves when they join an organization like this .

Speaker 1 14:28

They are that I am a police officer , that's all that I am , that's all that I do , and that's really least a burnout , because you're not thinking about your wider life , you're not having hobbies , you're not seeing your partner , you're not spending time , you're just thinking , work , work , work and work can overwhelm you and cause burnout because it's all that consumes your brain . You need to make sure you can't control it . If you , if you , can't make a family event , then fair enough , it's the job . But when you do have that time outside of work , making sure that you have something else having a hobby , having a home life and separating the two is so important and I really didn't learn that until recently and it is an ongoing practice that you have to put in place . It's not going to just come easily . You can't just say in your mind , yeah , work this side and family life is this side , because it's so hard to do . You have to actually physically put strategies in place to make sure that you can do that .

Speaker 2 15:24

What an amazing segue straight into the next question , natalie . You've done very well . We've now identified one of the particular problems that we do have . But what strategies can we actually

Setting Boundaries and Preventing Burnout

Speaker 2 15:35

put in place to support this and prevent burning out ? Because I know , I honestly believe that the most important thing that we can do is to rule a line between our work life and our home life , but , as you've quite rightly pointed out , that is not easy . So how do we set those boundaries Right ? Because it is very , very difficult and , as you've said , you can't just go , oh that's , it Works different on the way from work now , because you know as well as I do , we are continually turning it over . So give us some strategies that we can put in place so that everybody can go oh yeah , that makes sense , I can do that .

Speaker 1 16:09

So one of the main things for me is setting boundaries , and by that you can set thousands of boundaries and never stick to them . So what I try to do is try and set like three non-negotiables for my week ahead where you can do it on a monthly basis , which they are your non-negotiables , you're not going to stray away from them . It may be that you must go to the gym three times a week and that is your non-negotiable , and sometimes we do have a choice with work . We do have sergeant saying to us can you stay late tonight ? And sometimes people just say , yeah , fine , like it's my job , I'm going to stay late , whereas , if you know right , I put on this week that I'm going to the gym three times and tonight it's actually my gym night .

Speaker 1 16:53

You are more likely to say , well , actually , no , I need to actually go and do this thing . And it's so important in terms of setting these non-negotiables to not overwhelm yourself . I've sat there before and wrote long lists of things that I don't want to do in the job but are my boundaries , but I'm never going to stick to them because it's a list of 10 things . If you're making sure that you've got three , it means that you've got that bit of flexibility that you can then say yes to some stuff and no to other stuff . And what I really learn and what sticks with me is , every time that I make a decision at work , I always think , by saying yes to this , what am I saying no to in my personal life ? And it's all about weighing up what you are saying no to and what you're saying yes to . And sometimes it might benefit you to say yes to a bit of both time , a bit of money . Sometimes . If you weigh up and you say , well , actually , no , I'm missing out on that gym session , that is my non-negotiable Then you'll realise , no , I need to say no .

Speaker 1 17:51

And boundaries are so important to set and to stick to your non-negotiables , because how are you going to expect someone to respect you and your boundaries if you're not respecting them yourself ? So with boundaries , you have to be so rigid with them . And it's rubbish . Nobody wants to be like no , I'm like the rubbish colleague that's like , no , I need to go home . But you have to be that person , because what you realise going through the job is that nobody has your back like you . You need to be your biggest supporter . Your sergeant might say , yeah , I'm looking after your welfare . Your governor might say , yeah , I'm looking after your welfare . Yes , they probably are , but they're not going to do it as well as you , and you need to make sure that you've got your own back and you are sticking to those boundaries that you've set and it's so important to set them .

Speaker 2 18:39

What I really loved about what you said there was and that I've never heard this before , and I think it was an impact that I love . When you say yes , what are you saying no to ? And I think people need to stop because I'm very , very big on mindfulness and I think that's a really good mindful exercise just to stop and ask yourself the question . When the sergeant comes into the office and says to you , I need two people to stay back tonight because I want them to do this or I want them to do that , we automatically , mindlessly say yeah , no , we're as boss , whereas what we need to do is we need to ask ourselves the question If I say yes to this , what am I saying no ?

Speaker 2 19:18

To balance it up , sometimes we're saying yes , as you've said , and then the no really is not really a major no , but if you've got a partner that's supporting you in every way , that you're going , just sitting on the couch with them in the evening , can be what you're saying no to , doesn't it ? And it's really important that you go . No , no , and I'm going to do that . No because I'm going to say yes to that partner sitting at home , because they're supporting me for my 22 hour shifts and tiptoeing around the house and doing everything else . I owe them a little bit as well . So , yeah , I love that . It's a really good mindful exercise for people to do . Just ask yourself the question .

Speaker 1 20:00

You can always like use your partner as an excuse . Like you say , the skipper comes in the office , he says he wants people to stay back . You can always say , right , let me ask my partner , because we might not ask them , but at least that gives you that five minutes to step away . I think , right , what am I saying yes to , what am I saying no to ? And then you can then come back with an answer and you've actually thought about it , because it's mindless to say yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah . And also , when you're new and this is what I've found , many new police officers may find this you want to be keen . We always tell when you join the job be keen , put your hand up for everything . But it does get to that point where I'm three years in now . I shouldn't keep putting my hand up because I'm going to ruin myself . So stepping away from that situation and actually being mindful , like you say , and thinking about it is so important .

Speaker 2 20:50

I like that . I've just got to have a chat with Charlie or Mick or whoever it is . You just got to have a chat with your partner . It just gives you that space to step away and think , and that's another fantastic strategy as well . As you said , it doesn't mean that you're actually going to speak to them , but what it does mean is you're giving yourself that time and space to actually think , because you could always come back to the skipper and say to the skipper I'd forgotten , we've actually got a dinner date tonight , as in . Or we've got friends coming over tonight , or I'm looking after my granddaughter I'd forgotten .

Speaker 2 21:24

You know what I mean . It gives you time to step away and think . Now , obviously , we don't do that all the time . We can still give ourselves the time to think all the time , but it doesn't mean that we have to do that every time and say no every time , because we all know In that job , you actually end up with a reputation as being that person that's unreliable for turning up or whatever , and you don't want to be that person either . Do you know the ?

Speaker 1 21:47

way . You don't and you don't want to be that colleague that everyone just rolls their eyes out when they basically come to them . And the skipper asked them the same question . So it is in this way . You have to be selfless and selfish All at the same time and it is really hard balance . But a lot of people are over that , like they're too selfless , they give , give , give , give give in this job and our job is given anyway to the public . You're giving yourself to the public , your time , your energy and you need to kind of draw that back . If you're giving , giving and also the same with people that selfish , they maybe need to come more into the middle and say yes , sometime . It is frustrating when you're the only one in the team . That's like I take that job . I do that . I do that . It's normally when you're efficient and good , because your sergeant knows . Yet you can go off and do that and you'll get me results or get me what I want done in the quickest time . But yeah , and I agree with you , it's a nightmare .

Speaker 2 22:43

It is a nightmare . What sort of things do you see that people do that really blew these lines without realizing that they are actually heading for burnout . So you've got . We've talked about saying yes , yes , yes , yes , yes at work all the time . But what other kinds of things do you see people doing that blew the lines between work and home and separating that life ?

Speaker 1 23:05

I can even just speak about personally how I've done this so many times . So it's taking your laptop home , sitting at home on your days off , working . Nobody is going to thank you for that , even though you might feel personally . Yeah , I feel a bit better because I've done a bit of work today . That's off my to do list .

Speaker 1 23:23

One of the most things that stick with me when I join the job is you will always have something to do . You will never get anything done , and you need to kind of get out of that mindset that , like you're on a hamster wheel , you're chasing , chasing , chasing to make sure you get all your work done . It's never going to happen and people need to come to the realization of that and accept that . And it's a really , really hard thing to accept and I even find it hard to accept . So like taking your laptop home because you're literally blurring the lines between right , this is my work time and this is my home life and the amount of hours you can sit on the sofa watching TV with your partner but you're not giving them attention because you're literally on your laptop working the whole time .

Speaker 1 24:05

I think that's one of the main things , and like working on your days off is major because it's not giving yourself time to rest and recover . And that's another thing people think like even I feel it when I'm going on holiday , I feel guilty and bad because I've got a week off where I'm not working on these people's investigations . But in reality , if you look at that time off , you're resting , you're recovering and you will get that better . Some days I find it better just to do less work and less time and rest and have an earlier night sleep so the next day I've come back better , I can work quicker , because that is also another thing of burnout . You get really slog-ish , your work takes longer because you're burnt out , whereas if you took that time , people think it's counterproductive but it's really nice , it's a blessing if you take some rest and time .

Speaker 2 24:56

Spot on , absolutely spot on too . I'll tell you the other thing , too , because I coach a lot of nurses and the nurses are also another organization at the moment that's really getting slaughtered , right , because they're so short staffed , and because they are short staffed and the expectations that's put on them there's , a lot of nurses are leaving nursing , so it's putting the pressure on more and more people that are left back there . That put so much pressure on them , they end up leaving as well . One thing that I do know about nurses is they really , really struggle to not be at work , to let their colleagues down . They're not thinking about the organization , they just don't want to let their colleagues down . Organizations won't be happy to hear this , but I will tell you quite categorically . I will say that that's a them problem . That's not a you problem , right , and I think you need to go . You know what ? I'm sorry , kathy , and I'm sorry Karen , but I can't be there . But you know what ? That's a them problem . They need to find the staff . While we are poking all the leaks in the dike with all the fingers , we run out of fingers , don't we In the end , and the leaks are just going to keep on coming and they're not going to do anything about it until it actually starts to collapse . And I think that what you've said there is right . We have to just say no and we have to set that boundary . Make sure that we're not blurring those lines between .

Speaker 2 26:21

I hope you're enjoying the show . If you are , please don't forget to rate and review once you've finished . This helps the shows reach enormously . And have you got my free e-book the Best Way to Eat on Night Shift ? Well , this is a comprehensive guide to the overnight fast , why we should fast and how to best go about it . I've even included a few recipes to help you . I've put a link to the e-book in the show notes .

Speaker 2 26:47

And are you really struggling with shift work and feel like you're just crawling from one shift to the next ? Well , I've got you . If you would like to work with me , I can coach you to thrive , not just survive , while undertaking the rigors of 24 seven shift work . I also conduct in-house live health and wellbeing seminars where I will come to your workplace and deliver evidence based information to help your wellbeing team to reduce unplanned leave and increase productivity in your workplace . I've put the links in the show notes to everything mentioned . You can find me at ahealthyshiftcom or on Instagram at a underscore healthy , underscore shift .

Speaker 2 27:32

Now let's get back to the show . What strategies do you find ? I mean , you've talked about the laptop and not taking the laptop home , but I know some agencies have their work emails on their phones as well . Like really checking work emails outside of work . Like , don't get me wrong , but this is where COVID , I believe , has caused problems for a lot of people , because a lot of people can work from home and the expectations become that you're there early and you're also reachable at night , because people see the emails and they can't help themselves but answer because it starts burning in their brain all the time . Oh , I've got that email . Natalie's emailed me and I've got to answer that because she needs an answer to it . I feel guilty . I better answer that you do and you find yourself answering emails at 9 30 at night , don't you ?

Speaker 1 28:19

Yeah , 100% , and I just want to comment on what you said earlier about like , filling all the holes . I've met some absolutely amazing people in my organization and they are the people that keep this organization

Strategies for Burnout Prevention

Speaker 1 28:33

going , and if we all just stopped and stopped doing those habits that try and make the organization better or make the work flow like we do , then it would be a disaster , wouldn't it really ? But yeah , it's just crazy .

Speaker 2 28:47

Imagine if everyone worked to rule . Now , if you work to rule and literally followed the policies and procedures and every single step of what was required , you would literally go in , get your first job at work and you would not do anything at all for the rest of the shift . You just couldn't because there wouldn't be any bandwidth left to do it . So , as you've quite rightly pointed out , I think the public outside of health and emergency services that are listening to this , or our shift workers that are really , really working hard and filling all these holes , I think the problem that we have is the public are not aware of just how burnt out , how damaged people are . We use the term burnt out , which is why I've got you on Because members are literally and people are doing work in their own time , which is the best way to get to burnout , isn't it ? Because there's literally no break .

Speaker 2 29:40

So how do we put these boundaries in place , natalie ? What strategies do you tell people that we need to put in place ? You know we can't start with everything at once . We've got to start with little things to start off with and then continue to work through that all the time . So what would you do ? Where would you start and what sort of strategies would you put in place ?

Speaker 1 30:01

So when I started my burnout journey , I basically started with sleep and it sounds so simple , but it is the main important thing that you need to focus on and , in terms of shift work , you need to make sure that you're planning your sleep and it sounds crazy like why I'm not a child , I don't need a bedtime , but you actually do . If you know you're getting up in the morning at 5am for an early turn , you need to make sure that you're getting to seven to nine hours of sleep and it's so important to have that sleep because you just feel so much better the next day if you've had a good , restful sleep and you're ready for the day and you're ready to conquer , because when we're walking to work we don't know what we're going to be faced with . So when you've had a good night rest and you've prioritised that rest , you will be able to deal with whatever that shift throws at you . So much better than somebody that's set up all night on Netflix watching God knows what and then it's not going to bed till midnight and they're having five hours sleep the main thing to start with , and it's quite well .

Speaker 1 31:08

People might find it easy , people might find it hard , but I found it easier to put in place and it made me feel so much better is setting that bedtime , having a bedtime routine , being really strict on yourself . No , I've got to go to bed at half nine . I'm not going to watch what I want on TV because that doesn't benefit you . Having another hour or so in bed will benefit you the next day and will prepare you for what you've got to face , and also it'll make your mind clear . I do set those boundaries and say no because you feel rested , and you are either able to say yes because you feel rested or no because you're able to think clearer , because you are rested .

Speaker 2 31:47

My number one pillar of health is sleep . Always , people totally underestimate the value of that sleep . No one wants to get out of bed , do they ? They never want to get out of bed . I get people to mindfully ask themselves a question when you hit the button on the remote control to go to the next episode of what you're going to watch on Netflix , would I set an alarm at 4.30 in the morning to get up and watch this ? Because if the answer is no , turn it off and go to bed . That's what I say , because if you wouldn't set an alarm to get up and watch it at 4.30 in the morning , you don't need to be watching it right now . Because you're undervaluing the impact that that sleep has . Because we know what do we do . We don't get the sleep , then we're relying on caffeine , and then caffeine actually creates a bigger problem for us with concentration and sleep . Then we can't sleep the next night . It's a vicious cycle . Once you get that sleep in and you get yourself into this nice parasympathetic state to go to sleep in , then you start feeling so much more relaxed , so much better . You can think clearer , then you can get to work and , as you said , quite rightly so One of the reasons why most people join the job is because they never know what they're going to get the next day they go to work .

Speaker 2 33:03

It could be a cat stuck in the tree , or it could be the biggest event that your department has ever ever dealt with . That's what everybody loves about the job . I think you need to be ready for trying to get a cat out of the tree or that biggest event that's coming in . The only way you can be ready for that is sleep . I know people don't get it , but for God's sake , get that sleep . It's just so , so important . It cleanses our body , it detoxifies us . We go through so many different processes . It's where we grow . It reduces fat gain , it reduces cortisol levels . It just makes such a big difference to our whole life . So there's number one right Sleep , sleep , sleep . People , you know where I come from with that . What else would you say ?

Speaker 1 33:46

Oh , it's a hard one .

Speaker 2 33:48

I've got a good one for you . I reckon one of the best things that you need to do is you need to have something that you're passionate about outside of your own job , right , no , no , no , no , burn out , or whether it's a healthy shift , or whether it's playing football , or whether it's doing a sport or doing whatever , you've got to have something that you've got to be passionate about , something that you can go oh my God , I'm taking Saturday off because I'm doing this or I've got this on . Do you agree ?

Speaker 1 34:16

Yeah , honestly , you just remind me about , like , one of my main things and , like I said I think it's because I mentioned it earlier this job . Yes , you are a police officer , but it's not your whole you . You need to make sure that you've got a hobby , that you enjoy it and you're really passionate about and that you , like you say , will take that time out of the day and prioritize it to go and do it . More recently , I love dancing , Like when I was younger . Like sometimes it's silly , but go back to what you used to love when you was younger .

Speaker 1 34:44

What did you used to enjoy when you was a child ? Even if it's like playing video games , like I know it's not the best for you and you're not active , but who cares ? It could be anything . I went and done a dance class the other day . I felt great , I enjoyed it so much and I was active and I made sure that I got home from work to go to that class . So it could be a puzzle , it could be like a project , it could be like reading a book , like video games . I know that I follow someone and they said that they love doing , like you know , those VR headsets and they love , like playing golf on the VR headset , Like if it's that , then just do it , because at least then that is your time for you and you enjoying what you're doing and you're making sure that you're making time for that hobby .

Speaker 2 35:30

Self-care is what it's called . It's you making sure that you're doing something for you , because that ends up perpetuating , that you start to take care of yourself in other ways outside of that . I do think what we've said is exactly spot on that you've got to have something that you're passionate about , and just because Karen does it or Natalie does it doesn't mean that that's something that you've got to do as well . It's like some people enjoy lifting weights in a gym , other people enjoy Pilates , some people enjoy yoga , some people enjoy just going for a walk . So be it if that's your exercise , right . But the fact that you love a dance class , it's something that you loved when you were younger and now you've refanged yourself . And this brings back to the next point that you raised very early in the podcast was we lose ourselves , don't we ?

Speaker 1 36:17

Yeah , no , 100% . And also , like what you've just said , I see a lot of police officers which isn't a bad thing because it's their passion on Instagram or even in the job . They think , right , to get healthy again , I need to go to the gym , I need to eat protein , I need to lose weight

Managing Burnout and Prioritizing Self-Care

Speaker 1 36:33

, and that's not always the answer . Yes , losing weight , eating healthy and exercising is amazing and definitely we should be exercising in the police force anyway , because it boosts your endorphins , etc . But people get it so wrong . It doesn't have to be . You go to the gym five times a week . If you don't like the gym , you don't like the gym . You're not going to force yourself . Like the gym , I don't like running , I never run , so that's my non-negotiable I don't do it . But like you might enjoy , like you say , other activities that you can put in place in your life , that you're still getting the same result and you're still getting the same endorphin , but you're just doing something different , that you enjoy , because if you enjoy it , you keep doing it .

Speaker 2 37:12

It's that simple , isn't it ?

Speaker 1 37:14

Life is meant to be fun . You're meant to enjoy life . Life isn't meant to be sat on a laptop at work , stressed out , your head burnt out . Basically , You're not meant to spend life burnt out . You're meant to spend life enjoying it . So make sure you have those like bits of life that you can enjoy .

Speaker 2 37:30

The other one that I see is a big problem with a lot of people and I value your thoughts on it as well and I think , particularly at the moment , with the way things are so bad , you know , with short staffed and people getting very burnt out is when they leave work . They end up on the phone to their colleagues from work all the time , bitching about the situations at work . What difference does that make to them ? Nothing . What are they doing about it ? Nothing .

Speaker 1 37:56

Yeah , like guilty , I'm sorry , I'm guilty of it . Yeah , we all are . I'm still guilty of it . But at the same time , you're so right and it's all about that energy that you put into your life and I've realized that more recently . You need positive people and positive energy in your life .

Speaker 1 38:12

Sometimes your coworkers aren't the positive people to surround yourself with and you need to make sure that you're choosing your circle and it might not be a big circle , but you're choosing your circle , that a positive influence on you , encourage you and lift you up when you're down , because we all need that . And yet , like you say , spending hours on the phone it's not going to change anything . It's not going to change the fact that you're stressed . You've got so much work to do . Like , everyone is the same and that is also another hard thing to come to terms with in the job when you look at the situation around you and you think , oh my God , everyone it's not just me , everyone is in the same boat . So we're all in the same boat and , like I said earlier , we need to support each other . We need to lift each other up and also , like colleagues at work , give your other colleague If you're seeing they're really struggling .

Speaker 2 38:58

It might be your day today and their day tomorrow , so give them a hand , and I also think when we talk about talking to people outside of work , there's a big difference between having a support person and also just getting on the phone and bitching for the sake of bitching and dragging yourselves down . Because at the end of the day , I think you've got to work out whether the conversation you're having it can make you feel better , but isn't really making you feel better , because if you and Karen are on the phone and you're having a great big winch about work all the time and then you hang up , you walk away , you go oh yeah , it's like that , this is how it is . All it's doing is actually helping you to focus on that particular area . You've got to take control . You've got to put boundaries in place . You've got to turn around and say , no , I'm not going to . And if you look at that phone , that when it's ringing , you think , oh God , I don't want to speak to that person today because I really don't want to get dragged down . That's the time you don't answer it and you've got to put those boundaries in place .

Speaker 2 39:54

Respectful , because otherwise your partner is listening to you walking around the house grizzling about it . You're grizzling about it at work . You're grizzling about it at work . Where's the break ? I work with my shift workers with structure and routine , and I've actually started people with the whiteboard and a whiteboard's been a game changer for them and what they do is they literally just write up on their roster like Sunday to Saturday , write their roster up on it , write in what is a non-negotiable for them during the week , which may very well be a hair appointment or a nails appointment , or they got to do something . In particular , I got a doctor's appointment , specialist appointment , and then around that they put scheduling realistic times that they can actually exercise some self care , which might be movement , it might be going to the gym , it might be walking , it might be a yoga session to Pilates and set yourself a realistic goal of what you can actually do .

Speaker 1 40:47

Yeah , definitely Like . Planning is care . You're busy as it is . Making sure that you've got something in place where you can plan your week around your shifts , what you're going to do , your non-negotiables is key . Also , like dinners for late term you're never going to eat a healthy dinner if you don't plan what you're going to eat on a late term , because you are going to get the takeaway . It's a given , isn't it really ? So , making sure you plan it and if you write it down , I find you're more likely to go and do that thing that you've written down . It's there . You've planned it . If you haven't planned it , it's easy to go . I'll do that next week . I'll make myself feel better next week . But also , one of the most important things for people to realise is the onus is on you . You need to make sure that you're making changes . Nobody is going to take care of you like you . You need to be strict with yourself .

Speaker 1 41:36

You need to say look , I'm going to plan my week and I'm going to stick to it because it's you that's going to suffer , Then nobody cares if you don't feel very well at the end of the week because you're absolutely knackered , because you suggest everything . But make sure that it's you . You need to make sure that you're looking after yourself .

Speaker 2 41:53

Absolutely you do . It's a really , really important thing to do , and I think what we don't realise is and I'm going to do a whole podcast on this myself but decision fatigue is real and I think once people are burnt out , decision fatigue really gets worse , like really really bad . And in fact , decision fatigue is probably a good symptom of burnout when you get to the stage where you just can't make a decision . How many times has someone found themselves in the supermarket standing there scratching their head , thinking I have no idea what I'm going to do for dinner tonight ? None whatsoever . And how did I get here ? I don't even remember getting here . That's a real red flag , isn't it , natalie ? You're overloading your brain and something's going to snap , and it's going to snap really badly if you don't put something in place to actually control that .

Speaker 2 42:42

And I think I've worked with a client just recently that was so stressed like so stressed a paramedic . We've identified with her because I said to her about writing out and putting it on there and taking the pressure off and identifying what the most difficult meal of the week is and just focusing on that for one . What's your most difficult meal ? Focus on that one , don't worry about anything else , because you've got to all under control for work . But it's outside of work where the problems are . So what we do is we actually just work on that one meal and get that one meal right .

Speaker 2 43:14

And I got the most beautiful message from her the day after , saying I feel like you have completely lifted a massive pressure off me , because I said to her , by the whiteboard you got a day off . I said what's your fiance going to think about this ? And she goes oh well , he already thinks that I'm a type A control freak anyway . And I went let's work with that . If you're a type A control freak , let's harness that for what it's worth and help you , because at the moment you're getting to the end of the week , you don't feel like you've achieved anything at all because you've got decision fatigue . So let's put it up on the wall , let's work to what we've got there Instantly . It just lifted all the pressure off . She's put her hobbies on it , what she wants to spend time doing . She's identified our most difficult meal . She's got her shifts on it Different person , totally different person , because it's scheduled out .

Speaker 1 44:06

Yeah , and like you say , like focusing on that one thing , you're overwhelmed with it at work . So don't overwhelm yourself

Understanding and Overcoming Burnout

Speaker 1 44:12

with your own self-care journey . Make sure that you start small . Make sure that you pick one thing and nail it , because that's the most important thing to do .

Speaker 1 44:21

If you're overwhelming yourself with I need to eat healthy , I need to go and exercise , I need to sleep seven to nine hours a night , you're absolutely not going to achieve any of them and you're likely to not even achieve just one . So , just by starting your journey , the main thing that you can start your burnout journey by doing is focusing on that one thing and , like we said earlier , I would just do sleep and then go from there , and then you can put all these things in place and you'll come out the end of the better person . It's not a short journey . After one night of good sleep , you're not going to be like , yeah , bouncing back , because it's long exposure , your stress for such a long time . It's a long road to get back to the start . So think of it like you're doing one step at a time , one step in stone , to get back to that Version of yourself at the beginning that's another thing to .

Speaker 2 45:07

I think that you know you've been there , natalie , so you know that if you listed what you do every day now and handed that to someone and said this is what you need to do , they would do it for two days and then they would go . All this is all too much , and this is where people do go wrong , without any doubt whatsoever , they look at that list , they look at that fits bow or that fits for a short person on their social media and go right , I've got to have this kitchen bench that's covered in containers on a Sunday night and it's got all the meals prepared . Everything's fantastic in it . Let's do this . This is what we're about . Yeah , let's go , roger .

Speaker 2 45:43

You know , blah , blah , blah last a week , and then you don't do it again because it's all too hard , whereas if you just focused on one meal and nail that one meal every single day , it perpetuates . All of a sudden that works . Now we do something else and I think that's really , really good . Pick a habit . Start with sleep . I love that . You said that like a true sister . Straight away . Focus on sleep , because that's the first thing that goes , and what we don't realize is that's the biggest problem that we actually have , and people will scoff and say , oh hey , he's supposed to get sleep as a shift worker . You make it a priority . If you're not doing it , then it's not a priority , but you need to make it a priority and that's the most important thing that people need to do .

Speaker 1 46:26

Yeah , fantastic , fantastic . I also think like asking for help , whether that's you get a coach like yourself , ask for help because you're so much stronger as somebody that's holding you accountable and that you can talk to , that you'll get better results . Even if you're struggling with mental health , offer help . The worst thing you can do is sit in silence . Mental health a whole other subject , but it does tie in with burnout , really that you need to make sure that you're taking that accountability to ask people for help . It's not embarrassing , it's not spoken about enough in our job and we're exposed to so many traumatic things , but it's actually really , really brave . If you go to the doctors and ask for help , if you ask a friend or family member for help , if you get some counseling through police care UK , it's okay to do that because you're taking that first step to help yourself .

Speaker 2 47:16

That's exactly right . And not only that , but I think you find that when you've got coaches or someone that has coached other people , they can then tailor things unique to your situation . Because if you came to me and said to me , I've got burned out , I don't know where to start , and I gave you the template , for this is how you fix it . It doesn't work that way . Coaching is about working with Natalie and saying to Natalie Okay , talk to me about your life , talk to me about what you're doing , talk to me about how it's going and finding a solution that fits in with your life and how it actually works . And when we do that , then you've got the accountability . And then you've got someone that you can go and say , hey , and they will give you an idea . And you think , my God , that's so simple . I hadn't even thought of that . You can't do it on your own . You really do need that support and that assistance fantastic . Is there anything you would like to add that we've not mentioned so far ? Natalie ?

Speaker 1 48:08

No , I don't think so . I think we've covered quite a lot today .

Speaker 2 48:11

Tell us where people can find you and what you're actually doing on your socials .

Speaker 1 48:14

So I'm on Instagram and my Instagram page . At the moment I'm just posting like reels , basically , of some tips on topics . I kind of try and get an engagement from my followers , so what they would like to know . I'm still learning . I'm not an expert in this field . I will try my best to try and find an answer for the people that are struggling with certain topic . I'm trying to build a bit of a community . Potentially later on I want to try and get everyone together really and do burnout events where we can all go and do some puppy yoga and de-stress and meet new people because , like I say earlier , we are better together , we are better supporting each other , and that's what I really want to do , and my DMs are always open for people that want to have a chat . So just go over there and give me a follow and you might get some tips and obviously , dm me .

Speaker 2 49:02

Fantastic . That's at 999 burnout for everybody . Natalie's doing a great job over there , and the fact that you're in the trenches , natalie , means you can speak from experience , and I don't think it can undervalue the fact that you've been on quite a journey yourself . It might only be three years , but you did get in there and you went oh my God , what's happening here ? And you've had to fight your way out of it and you've done all of that in three years . So I think it's really , really good .

Speaker 2 49:30

I wish you all the best with it , and I do highly encourage that people go across and have a follow , because as you get those followers and people asking you questions about burnout , it will give you more information and more fuel for you to keep going with as well . Fantastic Now , natalie , I've just won billions of dollars and I am going to buy you a holiday house anywhere you want it in the world . Now you can take your partner with you if you wish or you cannot , but the only condition is you have to live in it for six months of the year . Whether it's six months in the winter or summer I don't know whether you're a summer or a winter person Tell me where you want me to build it , and why ?

Speaker 1 50:07

You probably think I'm saying this because you're from there , probably like Australia . So my partner actually before COVID he lived out there and the amount I hear about it I might as well have been there with him , to be honest . But yeah , australia definitely like it seems like a great environment to live in hot weather and obviously the picture I've seen from my partner it just looks amazing .

Speaker 2 50:30

Yeah , fantastic . I absolutely love that , and you know what ? I'm not even going to argue with you . My roots are all back in the UK . I'm a first generation Australian from . My parents are from England . They came here to give us a better life growing up and I can certainly say that that's worked well for us and it's fantastic . Natalie , I just want to thank you from the bottom of my heart for what you're actually doing for all of the shift workers . I think more people need to know and understand and I highly encourage you to keep going with what you're doing , because the burnout is a massive problem and I think one of the biggest dramas that people have is that we talk mental health but we don't realize that burnout is a really good indicator of that . Our mental health is starting to really suffer and we need to put those boundaries in place . So , natalie , thank you so much for all that you're doing on behalf of all the listeners , and I wish you really , really well .

Speaker 1 51:20

No , thank you for having me .

Speaker 2 51:22

And that's Natalie Alton fantastic that more and more people are bringing awareness to burn out in this space . I think it's really important because we do tend to just follow this glorified world of our fits bows with these amazing bodies and everything else , but a lot of that is actually causing us even more stress . So I think it's really important that we actually have people out there that are offering strategies and trying to help people with strategies around burnout . So all cutos to Natalie for actually taking that on and doing it . She comes from a position herself where she has suffered burnout and she's had to fight her way back , even in her short career herself and I say short , but it's still three years and she's been there and back and , of course , she's working in that environment so she gets it . So get over there and give her a follow and support her in what she's actually doing . And also , you can also bomber with questions and that and she'll learn from that . You'll learn from it and the more people that we have in this space , the better it will actually be .

Speaker 2 52:30

I hope that offered you some value . If it did , please go ahead and rate or review the podcast Once you get to the end . Stop . Go back to the main page on Spotify , if you just hit the three dots on the left hand side and you can actually hit five stars , and on Apple , go back to the main page , scroll to the bottom and you can just give us five stars and even if you've had the time , just give us a small review , because when other people are looking for the podcast , that helps us enormously . Thank you so much . Thank you for listening . If you enjoyed this episode , be sure to subscribe so you get notified whenever a new episode is released . It would also be ever so helpful if you could leave a rating and review on the app you're currently listening on . If you want to know more about me or work with me , you can go to a healthy shift dot com . I'll catch you on the next one .