A Healthy Shift | The Shift Work Podcast
It doesn't have to be this way.
Welcome to A Healthy Shift | The Shift Work Podcast, the podcast helping shift workers thrive while changing how organisations think about people working in 24/7 environments.
Hosted by Roger Sutherland, Australia's Night Shift & Sleep Specialist, this is where evidence meets lived experience.
After more than 40 years of working rotating shifts with Victoria Police, followed by years studying nutrition, circadian biology, chrononutrition, sleep, human performance and women's health, Roger is on a mission to challenge the belief that fatigue, poor sleep, burnout and declining health are simply part of working shifts.
Because they don't have to be.
Whether you're a nurse, paramedic, police officer, firefighter, doctor, aged care worker, manufacturing employee, FIFO worker, miner, pilot, flight attendant, truck driver, dispatcher, or anyone working outside the traditional 9-to-5, this podcast will give you practical, evidence-based strategies to help you sleep better, improve your energy, optimise your health and perform at your best.
If you're a leader, manager, People & Culture professional, WHS specialist, or responsible for leading a 24/7 workforce, you'll discover a different way of thinking about shift work—one that focuses on building shift work capability from within through education, leadership and practical systems that create healthier people, stronger teams and higher-performing organisations.
Each episode explores topics including:
• Shift work
• Night shift
• Sleep after night shift
• Circadian rhythm
• Fatigue management
• Shift worker health
• Nutrition for shift workers
• Chrononutrition
• Recovery and resilience
• Women's health and shift work
• Leadership in 24/7 organisations
• Human performance
• Workplace wellbeing
• Fatigue risk management
• Building healthier, safer and higher-performing workplaces
This isn't another podcast offering generic health tips.
It's a podcast about changing the future of shift work.
Because healthier people create stronger teams.
Stronger teams build better organisations.
And it all starts by understanding how to work with biology, not against it.
It doesn't have to be this way.
A Healthy Shift | The Shift Work Podcast
[65] - Jet Lag V Shift Work
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Are you ready to crack the code of your body's internal timekeeper? Ever wondered why jet lag feels worse when you're flying east rather than west? Join me, as we explore the mysteries of our circadian rhythm and discover how it influences our daily lives, especially when it comes to jet lag and shift work.
You'll learn about the key triggers of our circadian rhythm - light, movement and nutrient timing, and how simple habits like getting plenty of natural light before screen time, drinking water before coffee, and sticking to regular meal times can make a big difference. We'll also venture into the fascinating world of shift work, discussing practical, evidence-based strategies to help you not just survive but flourish amidst the challenges of erratic schedules.
So tune in, discover how to sync with your body's natural rhythm, and unleash your potential for optimal performance and well-being while performing shift work or time travelling.
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Roger Sutherland is Australia's Night Shift & Sleep Specialist and the founder of A Healthy Shift.
After more than 40 years working rotating shifts with Victoria Police, Roger now helps organisations reduce fatigue risk, improve staff wellbeing and build healthier, safer and higher-performing 24/7 workplaces through evidence-based education, circadian biology and the Shift Work Champions™ Framework.
Shift Work Champions™: https://join.ahealthyshift.com/shift-work-capability
Website: https://ahealthyshift.com.au
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/roger-sutherland
Instagram: @a_healthy_shift
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Disclaimer: Roger Sutherland is not a doctor or a medical professional. Always consult a physician before implementing any strategies mentioned in this podcast. Use of this information is strictly at your own risk. Roger Sutherland will not assume any liability for direct or indirect losses or damages that may result from the use of the information contained in this podcast, including but not limited to economic loss, injury, illness, or death.
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Jet Lag vs Shift Work
Speaker 1As shift workers , we laugh when people come back from overseas and tell us that they feel jet-legged . Us shift workers feel like that all the time , so today I just want to talk about the difference between jet lag and shift work . Shift work can be brutal , but it doesn't have to be . Welcome to a healthy shift . My name is Roger Sutherland , certified nutritionist , veteran law enforcement officer and 24-7 shift worker for almost four decades . Through this podcast , i aim to educate shift workers , using evidence-based methods , to not only survive the rigors of shift work but thrive . My goal is to empower shift workers to improve their health and well-being so they have more energy to do the things they love . Enjoy today's show And you are more than welcome to today's episode of a healthy shift podcast . I really appreciate each and every one of you for tuning in and listening to this show and thank you very much .
Speaker 1Now , today's episode is all about jet lag versus shift work . Now , shift workers , we laugh , don't we ? because we're very , very conditioned to that jet lag or hungover feeling , and it was only today that I swapped a few messages with none other than Lauren Simpson , who's just returned from Hawaii and is really suffering from jet lag , and I said to her welcome to shift work . And she said oh my God , i don't know how you do it , i feel hungover . Shift workers , let's welcome Lauren to the shift working life , because that is literally what we feel like all the time , don't we ? But anyway , let's talk about jet lag and let's talk about shift work . And what is the difference ? Now for us to understand this , in my seminars , i normally show a graphic of a circadian rhythm . What is a circadian rhythm And why does its disruption actually cause us so much grief ? So let's talk about it . Circadian rhythm is our biological clock . It is our clock Now . Circadian comes from the word Latin words circa Diaz , which means about a day . So what I'm going to do is I'm going to try and give you a visual representation of what a circadian rhythm does every single 24 hour cycle .
Speaker 1Now , it runs every single 24 hours and we have hormonal fluctuations all day , every day , in relation to depending on what time we're actually at in our circadian rhythm . So we get certain things happen . Our body drops massive temperature between 3 and 4 am , which is where it causes us to then warm us up , to wake us up , because we need to warm up to wake up , and then the melatonin secretion ceases at around about 6 to 7 am , and then we're at our heightened at around about 10 30 am , and so on and so forth a number of things that are occurring during the day . And I'll just give you a hint If you want to hit a PB in the gym , best time to do that between 4 and 6 pm in the afternoon . And that's because our cardiovascular system and everything is running at its absolute maximum at that time of the day , which is why we do hit PBs at that time , best time to train folks . So then at around about 9 pm at night , their abouts for most people is when our melatonin secretion starts .
Speaker 1Now our circadian rhythm has three Zetaebas that trigger it into where it's at in time and space . Our circadian rhythm is controlled by a biological clock which is embedded in the brain , which is called the supracosmetic nucleus . Now , that is something that is in the brain and can't see , so it has no idea where it is at in time and space , other than if we tell it exactly where it is . And that doesn't mean brain . It's daytime , let's go . It responds to three main Zetaebas , which is three main time cues , and one of the first one , without any doubt you won't have to guess , is literally light . Now we have our eyes , and our eyes , opening , register light which then passes through into the supracismatic nucleus and actually triggers our brain to telling it it is now daytime , so it needs to know that it's daytime and light is the first way . Now , this is why I say we need to get sky before screen to start off with , because if we just lie there when we first wake up and we look out of the window or we get that light to start off with , it literally tells our brain where we're at in time and space and resets our circadian rhythm to the start of the day .
Speaker 1Now , the next thing that we do , what do we do ? We get out of bed , we go to the bathroom or we go to the kitchen to make ourselves coffee . That's movement , and movement is another Z-Geber or another time cue that tells our body where we are at in time and space . So far we've got light and we've got movement . Now , you know I always say hydrate before you caffeinate , and there's a reason for that as well , because nutrient timing is also a key to telling us where we are at in time and space .
Speaker 1Now , our circadian rhythm is an anticipatory system , so it is registering where we are at for breakfast , lunch and dinner . So what actually happens is we start to get hungry at breakfast time , or we start to get hungry around lunch time , or we start to get hungry around dinner time , and it's no mistake that this is actually happening . One of the main reasons why this is occurring is because we are in that space in our circadian rhythm , and it is anticipating that it is around that time that we eat breakfast , lunch and dinner . So therefore , that is the three main Z-Gebers which are telling our internals where we are at in time and space . So therefore , it either inhibits or it releases hormones in our body to have us actually running properly . Now , i realize , without a visual representation , this is something that's probably fairly difficult for you to understand , but just know that at the same time , pretty much every single day , our body goes through a regular cycle which runs for 24 hours .
Speaker 1Now let's just talk about jet lag for a minute . All right , we'll start off talking about jet lag and shift workers . You're going to be nodding to all of this anyway because you know and you get it . But for those that are not shift workers , have a listen to this around . Jet lag , all right . So jet lag is actually a type of fatigue which is caused by traveling across different time zones . All right now . The reason why we are like that is because , suddenly , what our body is seeing does not sync up with what is actually going on in our circadian rhythm . So therefore , when we jump on a plane and we fly through the darkness and we land in another country in another time zone , our body is still back regulating its time clock on the time that it was actually at . Now , i realize that this probably is telling you how to suck eggs , but that is literally what is actually going on . So why do we adjust to jet lag ? Well , our body needs anywhere from a few days to a few weeks to actually acclimatize to our new time zone , which is approximately one day for each hour of our time zone change as a usual . All right Now
Managing Jet Lag and Shift Work
Speaker 1.
Speaker 1What sort of symptoms do we get of jet lag ? Hello shift workers , have a listen to this , all right . These poor jet laggers . The symptoms of jet lag include fatigue , sleepiness . We get digestive upset because we are out of sync with our circadian rhythm . We get impaired judgment and decision making . Memory lapses , irritability , apathy , do all these ring of bell ? shift workers That's right . These are all the things that we really suffer from massively when it comes to shift work and jet lag . So there you go .
Speaker 1Now , another thing that you'll find really interesting in relation to jet lag is it does make a difference whether you're flying east or west , and why does it actually make a difference as to which way you're flying . Well , when you are traveling in a westbound direction , this actually prolongs the body clocks experience in its normal day night cycle , because you're going backwards in time , all right , so your body is still sitting in that time . So traveling west is the best way for us to actually go . It confuses us less . So , if you actually think about it , if we are literally on the east coast , and for all of you that have traveled to , let's say , thailand or Bali , or even if you've gone to Europe , when you head in that direction , you actually get to your destination and you're fine . You don't really feel so jet lagged . Everyone's nodding now going , oh my God , yes , that's exactly right . But when you come home , you are traveling eastbound And that really does run in a direct opposition to what our body clock is doing , and this is why you will be suffering from jet lag , because your body has advanced in time , so it's confused and it doesn't know where it's at . So traveling west is a lot easier .
Speaker 1Now you might wonder why that is when you come from the US that you go west . You got to remember when you come from the United States back to the east coast of Australia , you are actually traveling across the dateline . So there you go . That's going to cause you more problems because you've lost almost a whole day and your body has absolutely no idea where it is Right . So how can we reduce the impact of jet lag ? All right Now .
Speaker 1I've heard all sorts of things . I've heard diets or fasting , or eating you know different times and things like that are all strategies to beat jet lag . There is literally no evidence around this in any way whatsoever . So let me just go through a couple of suggestions that might help you to reduce the impact of jet lag . All right Now . Number one is you've got to make sure you've had enough sleep before you actually go away , because if you start with a sleep deficit or you're actually not sleeping properly , you are going to have more problems around that jet lag situation around , being out of sync with your circadian rhythm and you're going to be severely fatigued . So it will make jet lag actually worse . Now if you're a person that is traveling across , to say , in a westbound direction so you're going from the east coast of Australia and you're going to head to Europe for arguments like let's just say you're going to do that , so For the two to three days before you actually leave for Europe , it would be a good time for you to try to go to sleep at around about one or two AM for two to three days beforehand , because then you will actually land in the UK at around about where you've been going to bed and getting up anyway . All right , it won't confuse you as much . So it does make things a lot easier for you .
Speaker 1Now , while you're flying , there's a tendency for people to take alcohol and actually knock themselves out . This severely not only dehydrates us and causes us a problem , but it actually impacts majorly on our REM sleep , on our deep sleep . We don't get proper sleep . It impacts on all of that . So what we need to do is we need to limit our alcohol And also , obviously , we don't want to be sitting there drinking coffee trying to stay awake because of the caffeine in it . And the other thing drink plenty of water .
Speaker 1And if you need to nap , just nap , just nap , knock yourself out , just get rid of that sleep pressure and then wake up again . That's one thing . And make sure that you're eating these small meals frequently and often . So try and take some snacks with you higher protein but light snacks . So get hold of fruit or vegetables or something like that that you can actually just snack on . That will give you everything that you need .
Speaker 1And don't do what Roger did , like , i think , one trip going to the US on a Qantas plane , i discovered where the Tim Tams were up in the galley and I think I smashed . I couldn't tell you how many . Yeah , i didn't feel great , but anyway , which brings me to my next point make sure you're wearing loose and comfortable clothing so that you're nice and relaxed . And another good thing don't sit for too long on the plane . Keep moving around , keep walking , particularly if you are looking at the time zone of where you're actually going . That's a really good one as well .
Speaker 1Now , i don't know whether you're aware of this or not , but long haul flights and long haul flight attendants when the plane takes off , they all re synchronize their times to the destination port of where they're going , which is why you'll find that the timings all seem to be wrong , for when you're actually flying , they shut the blinds or they turn the lights off and you think what's going on ? What they're actually doing is setting everybody up for the destination , and this is a really good tactic of what they do . So follow that as best as you can . Try some relaxation techniques . Try to go to sleep on the plane at the time that they set the darkness , because they are in control of telling you what the time zone and what the zone is going to be like . So use your earplugs , use your eye mask and actually try and get something as comfortable as you possibly can .
Speaker 1Now , when you get to your destination , when you get there just remember this your body is still back on its last time zone or it is as confused as all get out . So what you need to do is you need to follow these strategies , and this is why your body actually responds and recovers well from jet lag quickly . If you follow this And what you need to do , remember those three main Zitgebers that I spoke about those time queues light , movement and nutrition . So in your new time zone , you need to be getting light as early as you can possibly get it . You need to be putting your food in at the times of what is the regular times for where you in your destination And you also need to be getting that . Sorry , you get the light , you also get the food timing And , because we're excited in the new destination , we walk around a lot as well And that is why you actually recover from jet lag , because your time , your body clock internal by those time queues is starting to follow the time zone of the new place that you're going in , because that's what you're telling it Light , early movement , early nutrient timing at all the regular times that you can actually do it . So this is what will actually happen to help you to actually get into the time zone of where you currently are and your body will start to follow that . Now we just need to remember that you're gonna be a little bit out of sync , but you can use your little bit . You're gonna be a lot out of sync , but you can still use all of your sleep hygiene routine that I talk about all the time . Follow that sleep hygiene and that will help you to put yourself into that area of sleep , telling your body that this is what we do when we go to sleep . So if you've got a solid sleep routine , then follow that while you're away on holidays as well . Alcohol will impact , caffeine will impact , so we need to avoid those towards the end of the day as well And just follow what your normal sleep hygiene is . That will help .
Speaker 1All right , so let's just summarise jet lag . Jet lag is a fatigue that's caused by travelling across different time zones . Duh , we know that , but that's what it is . Now , the body needs anywhere from a few days to maybe even a few weeks to acclimatise to the new time zone , which depends on where you have gone or what you've you know , like where you've come from , what direction you've travelled in , or whatever . But it could take approximately one day for each hour of your time zone change . It's a lot , isn't it ? And that's it takes a long time , even though you might feel okay . Coming from the US back to the East Coast of Australia , it will take you time to adjust back , even though you might feel okay . But the way you fix that is early , light , nutrient timing at the normal times for the area that you're currently in and that movement early to tell your body All right , that's jet lag . In summary , it's jet lag becomes the confusion between what your internal clock is actually thinking where it's at and what your eyes are actually seeing . And it's that confusion And shift workers . We totally , totally understand all of that . So let's just have a little bit of a look at why it is that we don't adjust the shift work Because a traveller travels in time , but what they will actually do is they get that early movement , nutrient timing and they also get that early light so their body adjusts .
Speaker 1One of the biggest problems that we have as a shift worker is we don't have a regular schedule
Shift Work and Jet Lag
Speaker 1And if we do get into a regular schedule , we actually start to adjust to that regular schedule . Now , shift workers the reason why we feel hungover and feel fatigued and all of those other symptoms that I spoke about before with the digestive upset in particular , the gas bloating and our digestive upset and that brain fog and that hungover feeling , the reason why we do that is because we're not doing anything at all to help ourselves to stay in line with the time zone . We don't , so what we do is we tend to lounge around . We stay inside , we're watching Netflix . We can't be bothered doing anything at all . We think , oh , i've got one day off , so I'm gonna have a sleep in , and that's what we do .
Speaker 1Have a think about what you're doing . As far as your circadian rhythm is . It's your responsibility . You are the grownup . It's your responsibility to tell your brain where it's at in time and space . It can't see . So you've got to get outside and you've got to get that light . You've got to get the full blue light spectrum into your eyes to suppress the melatonin and get you going . I understand that you might have had five , six difficult days or difficult shifts and all you want to do is lie in . But if you get up early that day and you move through the day and eat at the normal times , your body will adjust to that daytime because that's the normal daytime for you , and then you will sleep better that night And that's a fact . Now this is breaking the science down for you as the shift worker .
Speaker 1Shift work is not the problem here . In many ways , a lot of us are self-sabotages and what we need to do is we really , really do need to do the best we possibly can , when we can , to keep ourselves in sync with our circadian rhythm as much as we can . You've got to be fair to your body and tell it where you're at in time and space . And when it comes to shift work , we are our own worst enemies . We eat at all the wrong times , we lounge around , we sleep in because we feel like we need to sleep in , but then we get up and then we can't get going . Our poor circadian rhythm is confused . Now compare that to our time traveler that is traveling around the world to the opposite side of the world . That's getting up , getting going and re-syncing their circadian rhythm with the daytime by the movement , the light and also the nutrient timing . I rest my case on that one , because this is where us , as shift workers , we do sabotage , and then we just blame shift work for feeling awful . And then we've got digestive issues and we're suffering from stress which causes us digestive issues , and we're not going through a sleep hygiene routine . And I'm not here to bash your shift workers . What I'm trying to do is I'm trying to educate you around .
Speaker 1This is the difference between a time traveler and the difference between a shift worker . A time traveler will actually adjust to the new time zone because they're doing everything right in that new time zone . You're excited , you're on holiday , you want to go and look at things , you want to try the restaurants , you want to eat . You eat at breakfast time , lunch time , dinner time . Do all the right things and it adjusts you to the right time zone .
Speaker 1But , as a shift worker , ask yourself the question and be honest with yourself Are you actually doing the right thing by your body when you think , oh , i've got to listen to my body , i need to sleep ? You can't catch up on sleep . I've said this a hundred times You can't catch up on sleep . If you've listened to this podcast over and over again , or many other podcasts that I've done , i will tell you that a sleep debt is gone . You can't catch up on it . You need to get up , get going , get that light into your eyes , eat at the regular times , get that movement early and then at night , you will sleep a lot better .
Speaker 1All right , so we've gone around about but that's how what the difference is between jet lag and why people recover from jet lag , whereas as a shift worker we don't . And one of the biggest problems as shift workers is . I understand we have late , earlys , we have different times , that different things happen , we get overtime , we can't get home on time , but I'm talking about controlling it when you can actually control it , and that's the biggest mistake that we make as shift workers We don't control it when we control it . So there you go . That's jet lag versus shift work . They're they're identical , but a time traveler comes out of it better because of those time queues and a shift worker sabotages it without following those time queues . So the secret to the shift work is to follow the time queues when you can , as much as you can .
Speaker 1All right , that's it . Let's wrap it up . I've gone longer than what I actually wanted to go there today . It's supposed to be an Expresso episode .
Speaker 1If you get any value out of the podcast , i do actually ask , please , i beg you , if you would please , um , rate the podcast or even , if you got a few minutes , just review it on the platform that you're actually on .
Speaker 1I haven't had any ratings or reviews for quite some time And I know people are listening to it , because I can see that people are listening to it And majority of people are listening to it on Apple platform , and if you are listening to it on your iPhone which I know you are and an Apple platform uh , podcast you can actually just go back to the main page , scroll to the bottom and low and behold , there are the stars And there's the opportunity for you to , if you'd be so kind to put a few words in there to help somebody else who's looking for a podcast to write it up , and we're almost at the end , so once it finishes , you can actually go back and do that for us And I would be ever so grateful .
Speaker 1And that's the way you can say thanks . And if you would like to work with me in any way whatsoever , please go to
Gratitude and Promotion of Website/Services
Speaker 1the website a healthy shiftcom , have a look through all the information there And if you've got my free ebook , if you haven't got my free ebook , make sure you go and download that through the website on how to structure the fars overnight . Thank you for listening . If you enjoyed this episode , be sure to subscribe so you get notified whenever a new episode is released . It would also be ever so helpful if you could leave a rating and review on the app you're currently listening on . If you want to know more about me or work with me , you can go to a healthy shiftcom . I'll catch you on the next one .