Food Environments in Shift Work

Speaker 1 0:00

I joke with my students if you want to improve your grades , you got to hang out with the nerds . We hang out with people with shared values and our behaviors rub off on each other and all that sort of stuff . And same thing with eating healthy . If you want to eat healthier or start working out more , you need to hang out with people who do that . It makes it easier .

Speaker 2 0:25

Shift work can be brutal , but it doesn't have to be . Welcome to a healthy shift . My name is Roger Sutherland , certified nutritionist , veteran law enforcement officer and 24-7 shift worker for almost four decades . Through this podcast , i aim to educate shift workers using evidence-based methods to not only survive the rig as a shift worker , but thrive . My goal is to empower shift workers to improve their health and well-being so they have more energy to do the things they love . Enjoy today's show .

Speaker 2 0:58

I welcome you to today's episode of a healthy shift podcast . We're going to be speaking about food environments in our shift working place . What's more influential Our food environment at home or our food environment at work ? I sought out to find someone who is an expert in this field and I came across Dr Jill Joyce . Now , dr Joyce is a registered dietitian , a professor of public health nutrition , and she is the co-director of the Tactical Fitness and Nutrition Lab at Oklahoma State University . She assesses the nutrition practices and health promotion needs of first responders and their families and then creates and tests theory-based programs to address needs and promote health , especially through nutrition . Now , dr Joyce is a really interesting person because she , like me , also has a number of family who are either in first response or in the military , so she's got a personal interest in this herself .

Speaker 2 2:08

During this podcast , you'll hear us discuss what actually is a food environment , and how does the food environment influence us . What is more influential Is it home or is it work ? And what does the research show is more influential Your spouse or your work colleagues ? This really is such a great listen , and I was truly honored to have Dr Jill Joyce on this podcast . So , without any further ado , let's go straight into the episode . So I would really like to welcome you , jill .

Speaker 1 2:42

Yeah , thank you , and small correction I'm Oklahoma State University , actually Oklahoma State .

Speaker 2 2:47

University . For our listeners that we've got on here , explain to us what you actually do . Where have you come from to get to the stage where you've got a PhD and you're actually doing the research that you're doing at the moment ?

Speaker 1 2:59

I feel like I'm very , very fortunate and that I have an incredibly personal time in my research and I get to be like even more passionate about than most people probably do , and that I married an active duty soldier and he commanded tons of soldiers which are my closest friends and family members . I've got tons of veterans in my family , between my grandparents , and then my husband's side , like everyone's military , my in-laws on the law enforcement side , and my side of the family is fire , so just these are my people . I wanted to be in the military but I married it instead , and now I'm just excited to get to kind of serve them in return .

Speaker 2 3:37

Finally , That is absolutely unbelievable . So you didn't join the military yourself . It's sort of like being a grandparent with a baby , isn't it ? You get to hand it back every now and again with that effort and actually go through it .

Speaker 1 3:48

Absolutely .

Speaker 2 3:50

I'm in a situation where I have a partner who works in a shift working environment , i've got a daughter who works in a shift working environment and is a 24-hour shift worker , i've got a son who's a 24-hour shift worker and I've got a son in law , and we're in a situation where we live in shift working environments . Don't we Jill ? So we totally see the highs and we see the lows out of it , don't we ?

Speaker 1 4:13

And that's in addition to living with all of these individuals and loving them and them being my family and friends . I'm also fascinated by behavior , and that's kind of my background . research wise is public health and behavior , and so it's great to have lived so long with them that , if research can't tell us what's going on , i have this insider scoop that tells me where to go and how to tailor things .

Speaker 2 4:37

That is incredible , and there really isn't up and down , isn't there , jill ? We do ride a real emotional rollercoaster living with shift workers and being around shift work , because some days we're up and about , there's impacts that occur at work that end up coming home . There's impacts at home which end up going to work . There's a real crossover there as well , and sometimes if you've got couples that are in a shift working environment , they end up . One can be up , one can be down . It's very , very complicated . Now your research is into food environments in shift workers and this is really exciting that someone's actually looking at that and we're going to talk our way right the way through this . But first of all , could you just explain to us what in the research ? what is a food environment ?

Speaker 1 5:25

I mean there are so many layers to the food environment onion . So , broadly speaking , food environments are any physical environment around which you're kind of presented with food and any kind of physical environment that can influence your eating habits , kind of by how food is presented to you , and there are levels to that

Food and Environment's Influence on Health

Speaker 1 5:44

. So if we think really big , we have community food environments , for example , like are you in a rural community where you have limited access to healthy foods , maybe you only have a convenience store and a fast food fried chicken place . Or are you in a big city with lots of options ? If you think not quite so big and come down a little bit in size of that level , maybe in your town we have retail food environments . So if we don't just think like bigger community , we think kind of smaller What restaurants do you have access to ? Do you have access to grocery stores ? And we can look at kind of the combination of the two how many fast food restaurants and how many grocery stores And we can decide if you're in a food desert you don't have a lot of access to healthy foods , or food swamp where you're surrounded by not so healthy options .

Speaker 1 6:30

And we can even go really small to micro levels which are like your home or your work , food , environment , and that's where the police station , the fire station come into play . And a good example of that is if you think , like , in the office , is there a candy dish , in your house , is there a fruit bowl , those sorts of things . So there's levels to it , but it's how the environment is set up to influence your food choices .

Speaker 2 6:53

So a lot of that would come from conditioning from parents as well to going way back . I would think that , regardless of what your food environment can be , if you've had parents that are very orientated towards , i think if I look at organic or natural produce and cooking , it's against someone who is not a cook , someone who's been brought up in an environment where it's all been fast food , uber or frozen dishes or things like that as well . So I'm sure that there's not only environmental factors , but there must also be conditioning factors as well . Is that a fairer comment ?

Speaker 1 7:24

Oh yeah , absolutely . I mean , it's funny , i walk into classes that I do with anyone , let alone first responders , and I kind of let them down immediately and that I'm not going to tell them what to eat , to eat healthy , because , let's be honest , everybody secretly knows the answer to that question .

Speaker 1 7:42

Yes , they do , they're just confused by social media and all that stuff . But I tell them , i'm here to teach you how to eat healthy because there are so many influences on you internally It's what you grew up with is huge But then there's all these external things too . I mean , we could list probably 30 things that influence your eating habits at any given moment .

Speaker 2 8:05

When I think about my career , over my journey , i think that you can be very influenced by what everybody is doing , more probably at work . You can have really really good intentions when you do your food preps on Sunday , but you can be influenced . So what does the research show ? is more influential , work or home ?

Speaker 1 8:25

The majority of the food environment research that we have right now is actually done in schools . What's the theory behind how you set up a food environment and what elements encourage you to choose a certain food or not choose a certain food ? And we've found that it comes down to behavioral economics what's normal , attractive and convenient . Most of the research at the moment is at least in the US is in schools . We've actually figured out how to set up a school lunch line to I like to say it this way to trick kiddos into buying the healthy food and eating it .

Speaker 2 8:59

Oh , I can understand that .

Speaker 1 9:01

Yeah , so so far that's where most of the research is . But we can translate that research into a work and a home food environment , and we're starting to do that . But I would say which one influences you more depends on a couple of factors And it's funny because I joke that I should just get it depends tattooed on my forehead , because that is like my classic response get ready for it . So it depends on where do you spend more of your time . I would also say it depends on which one you control more . If you don't have control over it , that's going to be a problem . I would also say that part of it is how social environment and food environment meet and that at work you're around your coworkers and your buddies and if they start snacking , you know you're probably going to go over and start snacking . So I think there's a social element there too . I think it's also where are you maybe bored and stressed out the most ?

Speaker 2 9:57

also , Emotional eating really comes into play a lot there too , doesn't it ? A lot of research really clearly shows now that people emotionally eating , you can go a few steps back as to what actually caused that . But I think if you're really stressed in the workplace and your colleagues are stressed and particularly we're talking about first responders or military as well , so it is a highly stressed environment It's easy for us just to reach into that lolly jar at the office or the drawer that's got the chocolate in it , because that's just convenient in their forest . So my next question was actually going to be what's more influential ? Is your spouse or is your work colleagues ?

Speaker 1 10:36

We're actually doing research on that right now . We're doing surveys where we're kind of asking all different tactical groups in the US , them and their spouse , to fill out a survey and kind of let us know who is in control of food . Is it the first responder ? Is it the spouse ? Does it differ by fire , law enforcement , military , different types within each of those ? I can anecdotally say that , having been an active duty military spouse , i controlled everything . I was the gatekeeper when it comes to nutrition .

Speaker 1 11:06

But at the moment we actually don't have research on kind of who is the gatekeeper at home to nutrition . So we're working on that one . What we do see from where most of the research right now comparing spouse versus coworkers and their influences , is in mental health And we're finding that coworkers have a massive influence absolutely , and spouse can definitely be a protective factor as well if the relationship is good and strong and they're able to cope appropriately to help the first responder . I think they influence in different ways at different times and we'll kind of let you know soon the extent to which the spouse is the influence . We actually did also ask if coworkers have more an influence than the spouse . So I will find out soon on the nutrition side .

Speaker 2 11:54

That's really interesting . A few times now you've referenced back to mental health in both environments . You obviously are of a belief that there is a major link here . When I think of my time working , I would be thinking over the journey . your colleagues severely impact on your mental health because you're in that working environment .

Speaker 2 12:17

Let's be brutally honest We go to work to earn money , to support the home , don't we ? So we're in a position whereby going to work and we're there because we have to be there and we never going to like what the bosses are doing or how the bosses are going about it , So we can be in the environment which is very negative or toxic . We bag this system , we bag that system . This doesn't work . How come this is so antiquated Winge , winge , winge , moan , moan , moan , which impacts on our mental health , which probably leads us to I will just go and get KFC for dinner .

Speaker 2 12:47

That's the easiest option , isn't it ? Whereas at home , our spouses are the ones that are picking us back up again , aren't they ? Because they're not in that environment and it's positive . Family life should be positive and it's about going off and doing things with the children and things like that . I would suggest that me personally , in my environment

Better Food for Shift Workers

Speaker 2 13:07

. I would say that work is definitely more influential on the food environment purely because of the toxicity that can be around the mental health Just literally talking all the time about . I mean , no one's ever happy with their up lines , with what's going on . Do you agree with that ?

Speaker 1 13:22

I would say that I agree that it sounds like work was probably more influential for you . I would say again , it very much depends . I mean , you could have working with the group in town that I've worked with . We've shifted the food environment to be way less toxic . At this point the food environment at the stations is actually quite supportive and the culture has really shifted in terms of health in that the coworkers are a lot more supportive of each other working out , eating healthier . It's kind of shifted for them . I think it depends on the food environment , the health culture of your organization , how leadership is key too in facilitating all of that . If you spend more time at work than at home and if it is more powerful of an influence it kind of has a greater magnitude to it , then yeah , it's definitely going to impact you more good over that .

Speaker 2 14:14

One of the biggest problems that we have , i think , as shift workers , is we are exhausted . Shift work is very taxing on our system . Full stop the brain fog that people live with . They're outside of their line , with their circadian rhythm . Emotionally , they're up and down . They can be suffering from stress at work . One of the last things that people need to be thinking about is what do I need to eat and how do I need to go about doing that ? Now , where I'm leading into here , jill , is the decision fatigue , because it's researched , isn't it ? Our brain makes thousands and thousands and thousands of decisions every single day . What is the best way for shift workers to actually avoid decision fatigue ?

Speaker 1 14:55

So that's actually pretty much what the food environment , how public health practitioners are trying to flip the food environment and use it to support you . We're actually playing off of those built-in tendencies or biases that we have as a species , and a big one is looking at decision fatigue . Right now , the food environment , at least in the US it may be similar in Australia is , if you walk into a grocery store , walk into Target , go into a restaurant , fast food or sit down , the goal is to overwhelm your willpower and actually cause that decision fatigue , get you to drop your plan and then fall prey to tactics that are driving your decisions one way or another , using all kinds of different things . There are ways to actually flip that , though . If we can overwhelm you and get you to make certain unhealthy decisions that will make you happy and help you spend money in , maybe , a store or a restaurant , why can't public health practitioners flip that and use that to make the healthy choice the easy choice , and that's what behavioral economics does . So if you look at what's normal , attractive and convenient in your home , if you increase how normal , how attractive and how convenient healthy foods are , decrease how normal , attractive and convenient unhealthy foods are , that will actually set up the environment to nudge you . You won't even realize it , but it will nudge you to eat healthier foods and it'll nudge you away from the unhealthy foods And it can really help with that decision fatigue , because the environment will just provide the nudge and it'll make the healthy choice just much easier . So that's one thing to do .

Speaker 1 16:43

For some examples of what that looks like is normal for healthy food , you have to have it in the house . Pick stuff you like , of course , but you got to have some of it in there . So buy it The unhealthy stuff , buy less of it . It's that easy . These aren't like insanely difficult concepts Less normal , just don't buy as much of it . Or if you're me , i can't have any unhealthy foods in the home . Like I have no self-control , i will go nuts . It doesn't mean I don't eat it , i just go out and I treat myself to it from time to time , but it's not overwhelming me constantly in the home . There's normal .

Speaker 1 17:20

Attractive is , you know , if you have healthy food , buy colorful fruits and vegetables . Put an attractive bowl out on your counter . There's some great , you know , wire ones or teak bowls . Get some clear mason jars filled with nuts in the fridge . Cut up fruits and veggies , Have them in clear containers on the shelf right as you look in the fridge . That can make it all very attractive . And it also starts playing on convenience Pre-wash , pre-cut fruits and veggies . If you have an almond jar or a nut jar , have a scooper right there so you can scoop out a portion and quickly walk away .

Speaker 1 17:56

Buy some small pre-packaged healthy food items . Put them in your pantry at eye level . It'll be attractive and convenient . You can grab and go . And then to add on to that is meal planning and actually prepping it . If you have food pre-prepped for the week , you know , pick your day off , make some food . There's less decision fatigue later in the week when you're stressed out , tired , don't know what to make . Well , it's already made , i don't even have to think It's there , it's already cooked . If you make meals you really like , but healthier versions , it's attractive , it's convenient , it becomes normal eventually . And then , with the less healthy stuff , to make it less attractive and convenient , put it up on top of like in the highest cupboard on the highest shelf , put it behind the healthy items , and that will help a lot .

Speaker 2 18:43

It's a worldwide problem . We don't get enough fruits or vegetables into our diet . So I challenge the clients that I have to get a fruit bowl and put it on the kitchen bench And they have to put six different fruits into it , right , and it's got to sit there with six different fruits . Now they can take two pieces of fruit every single day , but they're not allowed to take the same two pieces every day . I talk about habit building as well . Visual reminders , without any doubt whatsoever , are definitely the way to build habits . So having a fruit bowl on your bench putting six pieces of fruit in it , with the game of you can't take the same two pieces . So what this does is it creates diversification in the different types of fruit that they're taking . So they're getting all of those colors and it's a bit of a game , it's a bit of a challenge , which it becomes fun for them . That's one thing . I love the mason jars with the nuts and things like that in it as well , because it's something that's so important .

Speaker 2 19:37

I did a podcast with one of our local food preppers here and she's brilliant And she talks about around decision fatigue . We talked about decision fatigue in her environment . That don't try and do it all on the one day . On one day when you're at work , sit down and make your shopping list . Do that , that's the first thing . What do I want to eat ? What am I going to do ? So we sit down , we write the shopping list out . The next day we shop for it . We can whip in and whip out of the shop . We shift workers so we can get in and out quickly , and then on our day off , we've got the food there . It takes us an hour or two to prepare it .

Speaker 2 20:12

The other thing as well , which I thought was really good identify what type of food prepper you are whether you're someone who likes to bulk cook , whether you're someone that likes to have all your individual ingredients prepped , or whether you're the sort of person that likes to make up the full meals . Because I think when people think of food prep , they tend to think more along the lines of because this is what's pasted on social media . Here's my kitchen bench on Sunday and I've got all of these plastic containers with food in it , and people look at that and think I can't be bothered doing that . Well , that's because you're not that type of cook , are you ? Some people might like to cook up like a chili for argument's sake and put it in a big tub and they can just scoop some out , scoop some rice out and away they go And it's done . And we don't have to think of food prepping , as what I did was .

Speaker 2 21:01

I always thought of food prepping as having containers stacked up in my fridge of meals mate , and that can be unattractive . So we've got to make it attractive of . Let's make it . You know , bits and pieces as we go so I can mix and match , and so I thought that was a really good takeaway from that podcast as well . This is decision fatigue , because it is easy in our environment to just walk into work , get involved in conversations . I'm going to get pizza tonight . Yeah , let's have pizza . You know , even though you've got your food there , you go and end up doing it . It smells better , it's more attractive , and I think this wanting to fit in as well isn't there .

Speaker 1 21:35

Yes , big time , and that's a whole nother side of things is the social influence , and I find those two areas fascinating because they're things that people don't consider . I feel like the minute you quote can't eat healthy , can't stick to it people beat themselves up And I'm like , well , hold up . Let's look at things external to you . It may be that the external deck of cards was not stacked in your favor and we need to figure out how to restack that deck . And that's where our food environment can help . You know we can manipulate that to restack that deck . And then social influences , too , we need to . I joke with my students if you want to improve your grades , you got to hang out with the nerds , because we hang out with people with shared values and our behaviors rub off on each other and all that sort of stuff . And so same thing with eating healthy . If you want to eat healthier or start working out more , you got to , of course , make them habits . You need to hang out with people who do that . It makes it easier .

Speaker 2 22:34

If you want to get clever , hang around with people that you feel inferior to , because that's how you become clever , because we are wired to just be in the norm , don't we ? It's our comfort zone , we stay comfortable . I absolutely love this research around . It's simple and it seems like it's logical . But a lot of people these will be aha moments for a lot of people that go oh my God , because everybody knows that you can have a fruit bowl on the kitchen bench , but it isn't until you actually cut it up and put it on a platter that everyone eats it , don't they Like it's common , no matter where you go , the fruit sitting there . I remember thinking back to mum . You know there'd be fruit sitting around the place and you wouldn't touch it , but if it was cut up and put on a platter , you just hoe through it .

Speaker 1 23:14

Oh yeah , it's funny , i mess with my husband all the time . He knows it . I like to play with behavioral economics with him to see at what point . So I feel like we all have different ideas of what attractive and convenient are Like . there's a level where it's attractive enough that you'll eat it . So I played with him with grapes . I bought a bag of grapes , put it in the drawer , didn't eat him . Bought a bag of grapes put it on the shelf , didn't eat him . Bought a bag of grapes , cleaned them , put them in a container and put it in the drawer . didn't eat them , unless I told them they were there . It's not until they're cleaned in a clear container on the middle shelf when he first opens the door that he will eat half a bag of grapes in one sitting .

Speaker 2 24:46

It's like crack . Cold grapes are like crack , aren't they Like ? once you start , you can't stop . It is , and it's so true , though , but had you have cleaned them , left the lid off the container and left them on the kitchen bench , he would have grabbed a handful every time he wore past . It's not been the whole container at that point . Yeah , that's right , but it is the path of least resistance , isn't it for people ? So we talk about decision fatigue , but we also talk about the path of least resistance .

Speaker 2 25:11

We've got to go the easiest , and I know from my history and it's only over the last number of years , once I was educated in nutrition , that I realized that there is no greater feeling than having your food prepped , and it doesn't have to be chicken , rice and broccoli . You know like people analyze it and think oh , they see these bodybuilder food preppers that they're following because they want this body . So food that you've prepared yourself you cook your chili or your stew or casserole , or something like that It's so nutritious , isn't it ? You've put what you've put in it . You know exactly what's in it , and people go oh no , i wonder how many calories in that ? Don't worry about the calories in that , because if you don't have it with you and you end up going through the golden arches or you end up going through KFC or something like that , you're way behind where you could have been by having some food prepped , and I think that's really really good . So now we've probably covered it .

Speaker 2 26:07

But how can we set up our home and work food environments to support our healthier habits ? particularly work is very difficult .

Creating Healthy Food Environments

Speaker 2 26:15

We can have all the good intentions at home fruit bowls and exactly what you've just talked about with our fridge . How do we change the mentality in the work environment ? Because we have good influences , we have bad influences there . It's such a mix match . What's the best way to go about this ?

Speaker 1 26:30

What I've done with a group locally . We modify their food environment to see how , you know , playing with normal , attractive and convenient would influence their eating habits . While on shift and beyond that , i think I'd take the same approach we did . Although you could hit more resistance than I did , i'll say I didn't hit much resistance from them . The one thing I didn't do is for me at home , like I don't have the unhealthy stuff in my house normally because I just can't handle it there . I didn't say you can't have it , because I didn't want the pitchforks to come out . So I said you can have it , but the rule is you got to have it in the cupboards , the fridge or the freezer . It's got to be out of sight , out of mind . So I made it less attractive and less convenient . So at least I had decreased two of the three elements that nudge you towards eating unhealthy food . I didn't address how normal it was , but I decreased attractive and convenient . So two out of three , that's pretty good . And then I'll be honest if you're going to put a fruit bowl out on the counter , a jar nuts on the counter , a basket of whole grains , nobody complained . It's funny .

Speaker 1 27:36

When we started doing this there were some people . I don't know if they I don't think they really thought they would enjoy it at first or that they'd want to eat these foods , but it just having brought in the bowl of fruit , the basket of whole grains , the mason jar of nuts we also put veggies and dip in the hummus , and carrots and broccoli , greek yogurt , ranny-ship in the fridge , they destroyed all the food , all of it . Four people , two day shift . They were eating upwards of five pounds of produce . It was fantastic . I know I had someone tell me they hadn't eaten fruit in years . I was like , oh , this is amazing . And they actually really did a good job of keeping the countertops clear . I only went in once at the start of every shift for like 10 minutes to drop off food . Unless I talk longer , they kept the countertops clear and you know you think , okay , well , the second I walk out the door , this is all gonna end , they're not gonna keep this going and I'll admit they didn't really keep the countertop displays filled . Once I stopped filling them , however , and they said it was because they would be buying fruit and everyone would be eating it . But they did say that they were buying their own healthy snacks and putting them in their lockers . So it did kind of continue in that way but they've kept the countertops clear . That has helped immensely because they were bringing a lot of junk food in .

Speaker 1 28:57

There's that traditional fire station food environment that's got a lot of high saturated fat , high salt , high added sugar snack foods . You know the meals are very dense , heavy . They've actually shifted away from that and it's great this little food environment change has actually spread to . They now work out regularly on shift together . I did nothing with working out . It's like it shifted . You know we say health behaviors cluster , so it's shifted over to working out to . It's nudged them over there and when they go to the stores they're really and they go to the restaurants they're thinking more . They joke that they say WWE JD , what would Jill do ?

Speaker 2 29:37

oh yeah , i have that .

Speaker 1 29:39

Oh yeah , they're hugging each other in the store like , nope , she wouldn't approve of that , put it back , it's trickle . They've started thinking everywhere a little bit more , but all we did was drop off food on the countertop and tell them keep the countertops clear .

Speaker 2 29:53

I hope you're enjoying the show . If you are , please don't forget to rate and review once you've finished . This helps the shows reach enormously . And have you got my free e-book the best way to eat on night shift ? well , this is a comprehensive guide to the overnight fast , why we should fast and how to best go about it . I've even included a few recipes to help you . I've put a link to the e-book in the show notes . And are you really struggling with shift work and feel like you're just crawling from one shift to the next ? well , i've got you . If you would like to work with me , i can coach you to thrive , not just survive , while undertaking the rigors of 24 7 shift work . I also conduct in-house live health and well-being seminars where I will come to your workplace and deliver evidence-based information to help your well-being team to reduce unplanned leave and increase productivity in your workplace . I've put the links in the show notes to everything mentioned . You can find me at a healthy shift comm or on Instagram at a underscore healthy , underscore shift .

Speaker 2 31:04

Now let's get back to the show . A couple of things that I want to unpack in relation to what you just said . There was to we are what we eat and when we eat highly processed foods , i'm not going to call them junk foods . I'm very careful with how I label foods because you know there's no such thing as good food . I call it nutritious food and soul food . But too much soul food in the place does leave you feeling average , right , and we don't realize just how much of an influence what we eat has on just our mental well-being right the way through . So the fact that you change the actual way that we're feeling through the food environment , rolled into then wanting to actually exercise and work out , which reinforces the good food . So it's a two-way pathway , isn't it like that ? gut brain access has been working miracles because as you've changed the gut microflora , you know you've changed that into a healthy environment , that more nutritious food and your gut flora flourishes . You then start to feel better and then when you do go out and you have yourself something that's a bit of soul food , you can really be left to feel ordinary and it puts you off it because you don't realize what good feels like , do you ? and then when you go and you start working out , you start feeling better and better . So kudos to you for actually something as simple as just changing minor tweaks in the food environment , keeping the bench clear , so things are out of sight .

Speaker 2 32:35

Now , on that , i want to go into this because this is one of the biggest problems would be management and support from the organizations

Supporting Healthy Habits in Organizations

Speaker 2 32:42

as well . Now I know from in our environment and I can talk forever on our work environment that I know they have a great long bench and they can put fruit bowl , fruit bowl , fruit bowl , fruit bowl right the way down , but then the cakes and slices are gone and the fruit is not , and that's common because it's mix and match and people are just attracted to it . And it comes back to what you said , doesn't it ? what's most attractive ? the colored cake , the taste , because everyone knows , or are they going to cut up an apple or need an apple ? and we all know what the answer to that is . Yeah , i think it's really interesting that changing that . So how do you go with organizations supporting what you're actually doing ? because you are in military , you've got military , fire , police , things like that . How do you go with that ?

Speaker 1 33:25

in a formal life I was a clinician , so I worked with individuals , and when we work with individuals , we look at what stage of change are they in and then we choose an appropriate intervention to move them to the next stage and the goal is to get you to change and , eventually , maintenance . The same thing happens with groups . So we look at what is kind of the stage of change of the group , or we call it group readiness . So I actually , when I start working with groups , i like to assess where their readiness is and then I actually suggest a food environment change like the one we did locally , as kind of a first nudge if the whole group is not really on board with making big changes . It's a nice nudge to start with . Now that we have the culture super supportive of change , change is starting to happen organically in other areas now we're changing our readiness level and the group is more ready for bigger and slightly more intense interventions .

Speaker 1 34:25

I think that's probably the place to start , to be honest , is figuring out the readiness of the group . I also like to involve the group in the process . It's something that the department I was working with told me is that they weren't sure they were gonna like me when I came in because you know you just assume that I'm gonna come in guns blazing and I'm gonna just ruin all the food . And I didn't do that and I admitted you know issues that I have in struggles that I have with trying to eat healthy that I'm not perfect and that I don't expect perfect from them and I just want to make you know some simple changes that are going to have a big impact . And they said they really appreciated that I listened to them , that I heard them out , i figured out where they were at and I picked something that would work appropriately for them . That's huge . It's figuring out where is the group readiness wise and what are they willing to do . Start with that and we can keep working from there .

Speaker 2 35:20

Readiness for change is really important . I work with clients as well , because you've got to assess where they're at . When you went into that one particular fire station and did it , you could go into another station and get a completely different result , couldn't you ?

Speaker 1 35:33

Absolutely Yes , very much so .

Speaker 2 35:35

Have you got an example of that , where you've tried the same thing and it's not worked elsewhere ?

Speaker 1 35:39

I actually would say that within a department you sometimes will have that We have four stations , there's three shifts at each station and I will say each station reacted a little differently as a whole , but even each shift within each station kind of reacted to it and engaged with it on a different level . I'd say the whole department shifted towards a more supportive culture . I'd even say within a department you wind up seeing differing levels of engagement and excitement about an intervention like this . I haven't gotten funding yet to go to other departments with it . I've just kind of done this pilot but seeing within it the differences and shifts and stations , i would say yeah , we're definitely going to see differences in engagement and results .

Speaker 2 36:25

I love it that you said that different shifts because there's alpha males or alphas on different crews . isn't there That people tend to follow ? whatever they do , they're an influencer and if Mick does it then we'll do that , but if Mick doesn't do it then we're not doing that sort of thing . There are alphas . I would also hazard a guess that the more females that are in an environment as well , the more compliance to change there is .

Speaker 1 36:50

Is that a fair assessment ? There's a good bit of research with military that shows and we're starting to see it with other first responder groups . Yes , females do tend to eat healthier and we see that with the general population . honestly , When it comes to health behaviors , females tend to change more easily or be more engaged in them initially and pull people along with them a little more easily . Yes , agreed .

Speaker 2 37:12

Females because of the expectations and the pressures that are put on them in society . I think a lot of females . they're always looking for something . When Dr Jill Joyce comes in and says we're going to do this , they would embrace it and they would support it and push it , just like in our home environment . we do what the lady says , right ? Yes , definitely , because it's in our best interest to do what the lady says . because when the lady says we do because we just don't want to get in trouble , it's not worth it .

Speaker 1 37:43

Maybe part of the reason it works so well too is that there's such a kind of chivalry with first responder groups , that you respect individuals that are coming in with credentials and you respect females in a certain way .

Speaker 2 37:56

So , yeah , Very , very good . We've sort of covered the home and work environments to support healthier habits and we've done that beautifully . I love that You've talked about the fridge and the bench and , in the work environment , keeping that bench clear . I think that is a very , very simple strategy And I think for the people listening from what Dr Joyce has just told us , i think what's really important is , if you're going to have chocolates and chips and things like that , have them in a drawer so you pull the drawer open and they're out of sight . They're there , but they're out of sight .

Speaker 2 38:27

We don't demonize , because if you say to people there's none in the building , you're not having any , they are going to hunt for it everywhere until they find it . That's psychological , isn't it ? But I just think keeping the bench top clear because it's so easy to just walk past something and just grab something and keep going , isn't it ? When it's not there , you don't do it . So that's a way for you ladies that are listening in the working environment , how about we just keep the bench clear and put everything in a drawer so it's out of sight ? Yeah , you know it's there , but it's the path of loose resistance again , isn't it ? So we don't have to worry about those sort of things . I think that's fantastic .

Speaker 2 39:04

So we've got specific examples of this at work . So you've sort of talked about your fire station and how it's worked for you . It's very , very exciting And I guess now you've got absolute anecdotal evidence that you can take forward , because we're trying to reduce unplanned leave . The bottom line is we're trying to make people healthier so that we reduce unplanned leave , which is the very reason why I've gone into

Health and Productivity for Workers

Speaker 2 39:28

this area , and I think this is the way to actually go into corporates that we can reduce the unplanned leave and make your staff more productive so they're not sitting around . It's got to be humbling for a boss on that station for him to come in and see his crew in the gym working out . Now They would actually almost look forward to going to work , to work out . They get to work out with their buddies and and they're going to eat well and it's infectious . And does that transfer to home ? It must .

Speaker 1 39:59

Well , that's a good question . I don't know that one yet . So , with the spow surveys , we're also going to do focus groups And those are some of the questions we're going to ask when we get to sit down and actually talk to some spouses and see to what extent do things translate between home and work , especially when it comes to food . You know we have research on the mental health side of things , but on the food side of things we don't . So I'll be honest , i don't know yet .

Speaker 2 40:26

I think that's going to be a P001 really , because I would have no doubt at all in fairness , men or women at work . I mean , i'm going to go back and I know this is dangerous ground to be on , but I would imagine men coming home that are motivated to eat well is very supportive of his wife , isn't it ? Like the wife means oh good , then I can start eating more healthier and I can start feeling better as well . So I would guess I'm going to anticipate that the research would actually say that once a man starts to get on a roll like that , it becomes very transient into the home environment . I would suggest . I think that's fantastic , that's really good . Is there anything else that you would like to to spout to us and tell us , because I think it's fascinating .

Speaker 1 41:10

I think , if you're at home and you want to take two things away , there are two things that I focus on daily , and that's I do look at my food environments around me and I try to set them up so that they nudge me towards healthy foods , away from the nuts and healthy stuff , like we talked about I . Also , i really do focus on the social element of things , too . I try to surround myself with people who are doing things that I want to do more of . So be more active , you know , eat healthier . If you do that , it really will make eating healthy so much easier .

Speaker 2 41:42

It absolutely is . And I think the other thing in relation to that too is we don't realize what good feels like , do we What ? we just don't realize what feeling good feels like . We go to work , we come home , and I think one of the downsides of a lot of research that I look at around shift work and things like that is it's historical when there isn't the education around what we can put in place now to help shift workers .

Speaker 2 42:09

There's no argument that being out along with your circadian rhythm is severely detrimental . There's no doubt about it . But we can help shift workers , can't we Jill , like we can really help them with making these wholesale changes or little changes along the way , like you said with your FIME . And that started with oh , what's Jill going to come in and do now ? Like , what's she going to do ? She's going to come in , she's going to tell us we've got to eat chicken and broccoli , but there was just little changes made .

Speaker 2 42:34

And then it was the 1% , 1% , 1% . And all of a sudden they're working out in the gym , then they're wanting to go to work , to work out , and they're sleeping better , because I'm sure the sleep would have improved as well . Then the mental well-being improves because of the gut brain access and things start going really well , and you can only hope that that comes out . What I love , too , is also that you're working with the children in schools around that , and I think this will become very ingrained for our future generations as well . Wait a minute which I'm sure that's being done tactically , but it will really make a big difference to our children . Moving forward , they'll take this into work environments .

Speaker 1 43:12

Absolutely . And ironically I do work on the school lunch side of things , so I yep , i reach both sides .

Speaker 2 43:18

I just want to go back to just the one thing . You're in Australia , and I'm sure you've got the same things in the US as well . At cash registers we have non I can't remember what they call treat registers , where parents can take children through the non-treat registers so they don't have the chocolate bars and the chewing gums and all of those things as well , which is a really great initiative . It's been in now for a while , quite some time , but you know yourself when you're standing there with children , you stand there and while you're waiting , the kids see the chocolate bars , they see the lollies and they're grabbing and grabbing the mints and they want everything . So we can change that Now . I can't imagine the day that we're going to . We're going to see bananas and apples and oranges and mandarins and grapes going down the register . But we do have non-confectionary registers , which are non-tempting registers for people to take their children through . Great initiative , isn't it ?

Speaker 1 44:11

Yeah , i will say I have not seen that anywhere in the US . That's phenomenal And I would say it's not just kids . I'm so proud of this .

Speaker 2 44:22

Yeah , and it's well signposted . I'll take a photo and I'll send it to you . It's well signposted for parents . The other thing that we have as well coming into the supermarket now and our Maggi Chains do it is they have big baskets with fruit which are free for the children as you're going into the store . Now this is ideal , because you can grab a banana and give it to a child , or an apple or something , and they can munch on that as they go and rent . so they've got something to start off with .

Speaker 1 44:48

Absolutely Yes , i love those things .

Speaker 2 44:51

Do you have anything exciting coming up that you'd like to talk to our listeners or let our listeners know and share with us ?

Speaker 1 44:56

Honestly , i think the big thing is spouses . I'm excited to look at spouses as the gatekeepers and I think it varies by the type of service or the area that you're serving in the influence . but I'm excited to see if they are kind of a crucial piece in the puzzle to improving the health of shift workers , especially in doing so in a way that doesn't add stress and time to the first responder themselves . If the spouse is already controlling things , well , let's try and improve heating through the true gatekeeper to that . but I'm also excited to just be able to serve spouses . Having been a spouse I don't know if this is the same in Australia , but in the US there are really spouses do a lot of silent service I'm very excited to do some programs . I mean , we're not just going to focus on improving their first responders nutrition , we're going to focus on them too . So I'm excited to give them something .

Speaker 2 45:45

I absolutely love that , jill , because they are the silent servers , because for 5,000 military personnel there is 5,000 partners isn't there .

Speaker 2 45:56

And if you can influence the first responder or the military person and then you can influence the spouse as well , if the spouse is the gatekeeper and you can influence the spouse or put education out for the spouse of first responders or technical operators will call them you're in a position where you're influencing a two-way access , isn't it ? That is very exciting . We , as shift workers , would love to thank you for your work . I think it's very selfless to go out there and give

Supporting Shift Workers With Research

Speaker 2 46:25

so much time to try and to make things better and look for what the research shows is the best way to go about doing this and helping us without us just wandering around blindly in a fog , not knowing what to do or where to go . When I learned about your work , i was very keen to get you onto the podcast to have us talk to you , and I'm truly humbled by you giving us the time to be able to talk about your work and how you're going about it . So thank you very much for that , jill .

Speaker 1 46:52

Yeah , thank you , jay , and I , my counterpart in kinesiology we love doing these sorts of things because we don't want our research to just sit in a nerdy journal on a shelf . It needs to reach the people who can use it and benefit from it . So I appreciate you letting me kind of get the word out there on how you can use what we're learning to help yourself . You deserve it . I mean the things that are plaguing first responders . it's heartbreaking .

Speaker 2 47:18

Yes , it is Metabolic syndrome and associated is awful . Shift work is a carcinogenic now as well . It's awful the research and we can't keep pushing that out , because I think historically , as I touched on before , the research is on the past , but we're improving that Now . I've got one question that I have to ask everybody . I've just won multi-billion dollars Jill and what I'm going to do is I'm going to build you a holiday house in anywhere in the world that you would like , but you have to live in it for six months . I'll let you take your husband , all your children , pets , dog , whatever you want to take you can take , but you have to live in there for six months . The question I have to ask you is where do you want me to build it ?

Speaker 1 47:56

I have a theory that everyone is a beach person or a mountain person , and I'm a mountain person . It would be probably in Estes Park , Colorado , where Rocky Mountain National Park is . It's my favorite place . It's like this little heaven you just drive down into and you disappear . It's amazing .

Speaker 2 48:13

Well , you pick the block , you pick the area , you pick the view and we'll build it for you , no problems at all , and you can live there for six months of the year , and I'll talk to you from the mountains , with the view in the background , next time . I think that will be absolutely fantastic . Jill , how can people find you ? I notice that we've got different links . What sort of things would you Have ? you got a website and things like that that you would like to share with people , and I'll put them into the show notes .

Speaker 1 48:36

Sure . So we have a Facebook page , osu Tactical Fitness and Nutrition , and then we're also working on It's in the works . We're working on creating a website that will house all of our resources like manuals for peer fitness educators to implement our interventions , for leaders to take all that sort of stuff , our programs that are online . We're going to put them all online . It's coming . So if you want to email me to have access to that , my email is jilljoiceokstateedu and we're going to try and make it as low cost as possible or just maintaining the website and such , but we want to get all our stuff out there , so that one's coming . We're excited for that one .

Speaker 2 49:17

Fantastic . The more information we get out , the better it's going to be . Once again , jill , thank you so much for your time , effort , energy , everything that you pour into this , because it is truly valued by the people that are doing the actual work the shift workers and their spouses and family . So thank you very much . Yeah , thank you , roger . That's Dr Jill Joyce out of Oklahoma State University , isn't it fantastic ? Shift workers .

Speaker 2 49:42

I assure you that I am absolutely out here hunting down these people and picking their brains to try and find out what there is that they're doing as far as research goes , so that I can bring you that information to help you to thrive and not just survive while performing shift work . I thought that was a great chat , and just knowing that there's people out there that are doing work for the likes of us , it's fantastic to know , isn't it ? If you got any value out of the podcast , i really would appreciate it if you would please hit that follow button and then also go and give it a rating . It means the absolute world to me and it helps to elevate the podcast and get it to a really nice position with evidence-based strategies for our shift workers . I'll talk to you on the next one . Thank you for listening .

Speaker 2 50:37

If you enjoyed this episode , be sure to subscribe so you get notified whenever a new episode is released . It would also be ever so helpful if you could leave a rating and review on the app you're currently listening on . If you want to know more about me or work with me , you can go to Ahealthyshiftcom . I'll catch you on the next one .